Gabby Bernstein: “All Of Us Are Traumatized,” Finding Inner Peace & Spirituality, Struggling w/ Extreme Addiction, Shame, Codependency, Dissociating & How To Heal.
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Hi, guys. Welcome back to the Pursuit of Wellness podcast. Today, I have one of my dream guests coming on the show. I was on

honored to sit with Gabby Bernstein today. She is a number one New York Times bestselling author, spiritual teacher, and motivational speaker. I was so inspired by this conversation, guys, and I know you will be too. Imagine stepping into the shoes of someone who has faced life's darkest,

corners, battled addiction, confronted trauma and emerged on the other side, not just surviving but shining with spiritual wisdom. We definitely talked a lot about spirituality today which was a learning lesson for me but also just ways that we can confront our trauma and thrive through it all. She's a spiritual teacher and author who embodies resilience and transformation. She shares her life's

journey with us. She unveils her battle with cocaine addiction, her path to sobriety and a traumatic childhood event that laid concealed for years providing insight into how extreme behaviors, good or bad, can serve as shields protecting us from our internal struggles. So in today's conversation, we're talking about Gabby's story, what drug and alcohol addiction did for Gabby, levels of healing, how we know whether our habits are healthy or an extreme addiction,

trauma and the inability to be present and how to live in the moment better.

Dissociative behavior. Shame and how to realize we're living in shame. Grounding exercises. Shame and romantic relationships. This is a big one, guys. We often take our trauma and bring it into our romantic relationships into adulthood. So we talk about that today. The physical impacts of shame and trauma. People don't talk about this enough. How do you know if you're living in fight or flight? Epigenetics and trauma. How our trauma is passed down through generations.

Gabby's thoughts on meditation, Gabby's journey with spirituality and what does spirituality even really mean and how to become more spiritual. Tapping into your higher self, wellness and my personal experience with praying for the first time.

Guys, I really hope you enjoy this episode with Gabby. I applaud her for her transparency. She does such great work in the world and I was honored to sit with her today. Without further ado, let's hop into this episode with Gabby. Gabby, I can't tell you what an honor it is to have you on my podcast. I have been listening to your book, Happy Days, and it truly has had such an impact on me in just...

a few chapters. I don't know why it took me this long to find you and your story because I feel like I relate in so, so many ways. And I think a lot of people listening will too. And I feel like I kind of found it at the perfect time because I feel like, as you mentioned in the book, healing isn't always easy. And I feel like I wasn't always ready. And in this moment, I am ready. So I'm really excited to have you here today.

For anyone who doesn't know, can you tell us a bit about how you started on this journey and how you got to where you are now? Totally. Well, first of all, I just want to acknowledge that is "Happy Days" the first book of mine that you've ever read? Yeah. That's major. Yeah. That's pretty major.

because that means that you are definitely ready. A lot of people enter my books with the universe has your back or super attractive. They're like, let me manifest, right? And those are really profound books. But I think that Happy Days is my most important book because it really addresses the root cause conditions.

So good for you. Thank you. You're a major. Thank you. You're making a big commitment. So my journey, I grew up in the town next to you in Westchester in Larchmont, New York. And I always knew I wanted to be a spiritual teacher.

Sounds like a strange thing. Like what kid says to you, I'm going to be a spiritual teacher. And I didn't necessarily know how to put that into words, but I was acting as if, even as a kid, when I was in high school, I was the president of the regional youth group. And I led these group weekends of hundreds of Jewish teenagers in Westchester County and literally guided them in these spiritual conversations. And it was just amazing.

It's like an innate quality that just started to come out of me and develop inside of me. And I was also brought up very spiritual. My mom brought me to ashrams and taught me how to meditate. And I was named by the gurus. And she just, she kind of gave me that whole playbook of how to turn inward for help. So it was very normal to me.

But I also turned my back on it for quite some time. I turned my back on it for most of my adolescence. I started to look for that safety and that serenity in relationships or in my credentials or in the party scene, which was really bad for me. It took me down my early 20s.

But it was also this beautiful catalyst. So in my early 20s, I got sober. I was really addicted to drugs and alcohol, really pushing the envelope really far. And then I got clean. And when I was 25 years old, got sober and very quickly started to reclaim my spiritual faith and

reignite that spirituality in my life and very quickly started speaking publicly about it. Now, 18 years later, now I'm 18 years sober, 18 years into this career, I am just a consistent journey of developing spiritual connection, personal development, writing books, giving talks, and making it a spiritual life, not a spiritual part of my life.

And so my commitment to myself is my commitment to my readers. And as a result of just showing up for my own inner condition, I have had the privilege of being able to help people like you or anyone really that picks up one of my books or listens to my podcast or goes to my coaching membership, whatever that may be. They have the ability to have that experience through my experience. Yeah. I love the quote.

finding purpose through pain. Yes. And I feel like you have really tapped into that and your whole life has really become about using that pain you've experienced and serving others.

What do you feel like the drug and alcohol addiction was doing for you at that time? Well, at the time it was a protection mechanism. I, at that time, was living with a dissociated memory that I at the time didn't remember. It was a traumatic event from my childhood that was so buried that all I could do was

drink over it, work over it, get into relationships to anesthetize it. I would do anything I could to get over it.

But ultimately, when we have a trauma from our childhood or at any point in time, there's no getting over it. You have to actually move through it to come out the other side. But I didn't even know that it was there. I actually completely dissociated from it. So in the book, Happy Days, as you know, I opened up very, very vulnerably about the fact that when I was 36, 10 years into my recovery, maybe I had seven or eight books behind me at that point.

I was giving talks. I was out there in the world and I was kind of having this breakdown. I was just breaking down, breaking down, breaking down. My mantra was, I can't go on like this. I can't go on like this. I would literally fall to my knees every single day, but I'd still pick myself up and get on stage and do my art. And then I'd fall apart again. And then I, but I was really still, you can have some, you've been going through a really tough time and still do great work in the world. And I really want to emphasize that.

But it was really, really the worst time of my life. I was struggling with extreme gastrointestinal issues. I was constantly anxious, extreme anxiety, sleep issues, flipping out all the time, control issues. And then finally, I had a dream when I was 36 years old. And in that dream, I remembered an experience from my childhood of sexual abuse. And when that memory resurfaced,

It totally rocked me, but it also relieved me because while I saw, okay, I got a lot of work ahead of me to really step into this and to heal this. It also helped me understand why I was who I was, why I had been so filled with so much suffering, why I had been a cocaine addict, why I had been a codependent, why I'd been a workaholic. It gave me this opportunity to look at myself with compassion.

All those things that you've been doing to try to stay alive have just been forms of protection and you've been doing the best you can. And so for the past eight years, I've been on a really deep journey of spiritual development and trauma recovery. When you got clean from drugs and alcohol and you started your healing journey, did you feel like

that's it, I'm healed, I'm done. Like, did you realize there was a whole other level to unlock? I think unconsciously I did. I think unconsciously I knew that there was more to be revealed. I knew it also because I wasn't quite happy. I was living better. I was feeling better. I was feeling hopeful. I was feeling deeply connected to spiritual, deeply connected to a higher power. All of that brought a lot of grace to my life.

but I still struggled, struggled and struggled. And I think like, you know, why am I still struggling like this? And it wasn't until I had that memory that I realized, oh, there's more to do.

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you mentioned other forms of addiction that were used as distraction which i can relate to so much and i think as you just said there really is no end destination to healing and i think that was a big realization for me because i had my own journey i lost 90 pounds

I was self-harming. I was also abusing alcohol and losing the weight and getting into fitness made me feel like, okay, I have this thing that's like, you know, distracting me. I was addicted to exercise. I was addicted to eating clean. I was addicted to control because it helped me. It did serve a purpose at the time, but I kept going with it. And I realized that

I was using it as a distraction and then work became my distraction. Starting a business, getting really busy, filling my day to the brim so that I didn't have to think about all the stuff that I had pushed down. How do we know when we have a healthy habit versus an unhealthy coping mechanism? It's a beautiful, great question.

Well, first and foremost, I think that all addiction, whether it's addiction to something seemingly good like exercise or even work, right? For my work addiction, people would praise me for it. Oh, you can do so much. You've written so many books in so few years. I got praised for that addiction. I'm sure you got praised for losing the weight, being so fit, being so gorgeous. All that just continued to fuel it. But

Those addictions, whether they are extreme in a bad way or extreme even in a good way, those are protection mechanisms. We're using those forms of control to check out from what we really need to check in with. So we're in this constant battle of searching and striving and fighting against and

It won't work, right? So even though I was clean and sober, I had funneled into my, just like you, I mean, I was going to meet, I was going to recovery meetings at 7 a.m. Then I'd be at the gym. Then I'd be at my desk. Then I'd be, you know, push, push, push, push, push. And it was just such an, it was just another form of extreme addiction.

And so those extreme behaviors are what I referenced in my training. So I'm trained in a therapy called internal family systems therapy. And in IFS, what's known in the IFS language is that these forms of addiction are often associated

managers or even firefighters inside of us. They're putting out, they're managing the big feelings that we don't wanna face, or they're putting out the fire of extreme triggers that we just cannot touch into. They're so impermissible. And so the work is first and foremost to be the witness of it. And so how do you know if it's an extreme addiction or if it's a good, healthy habit? Well, you'd ask yourself,

Am I powerless over it, right? So can I not wake up in the morning without thinking about my calorie count for the day, right? Or am I looking always to the next exercise I can get to so I can burn some more calories or whatever that might be? And is it unmanageable, right? So unmanageability might look like I missed my meal

doctor's appointment that I really needed to get to because I was in the gym an extra hour longer, or I didn't pick my kid up to school because I was obsessing about what to buy at the grocery store, like that kind of unmanageability. So while it might seem like a really good thing that you're doing for yourself, you're actually addicted to it. And so asking yourself those questions, is this unmanageable? Am I powerless over it? And then when it is a healthy habit, it feels healthy. It feels balanced. It feels, it feels unmanageable.

like a addition to your life, not a way of controlling your life. Yeah. I feel like one thing that made me notice that it was a problem was when I would go on a vacation and severely struggle not working, not eating,

having the control over my food, not having control in general. And it would give me so much anxiety that I couldn't be present on the vacation. Yeah. Well, trauma is the inability to be present. That's a quote from one of the great trauma therapists, Peter Levine. Trauma is the inability to be present. And I actually knew that I was in a great state of recovery this past summer when I was in Portugal. Didn't open my computer one time. Didn't

wasn't in Slack, wasn't messaging my team. My team's in the room. I didn't contact any of you guys when I was there. And I was on vacation. That to me was a sign of recovery. Yeah. That was like one of my big moments of like, I'm good at vacation now. What do you recommend for learning to be present and sit with our own thoughts and really be in the moment? Well, first read Happy Days. And I really mean that because

There's plenty of practices I can give your listeners right now on how to be present, how to be in the moment, how to ground yourself. I have many, many, many practices. I'm happy to share some here. But genuine presence, that felt sense of presence comes when you release the blocks to the presence of that presence. So we live in a constant state of blocking, manipulating and controlling our circumstances to feel safe.

But when we start to feel safe inside, that's when presence sets in. And so it is a journey. It's not a quick fix. It's just not. Now, of course, daily meditation. Of course, conscious contact inward. So checking in with your feelings, noticing how you feel inside your body. I'm writing a new book called Self-Help.

And the book is all about taking the principles of this internal family systems therapy and making them self-help for people so that they can apply them in their own life. And so the simplicity of it is really about noticing that pattern or that feeling or that belief that you're carrying in the moment and choose to check in with it, just choose to turn inward. And then for a few brief moments, become curious about it. Just ask that feeling or that need to work or that need to work out or whatever,

Where are you in my body? What do you feel like? What stories are there? What experiences do you resemble? What do you want me to know? And then the final step is compassionately connecting to that part of you and asking it, what do you need right now? How can I help you? What do you need?

And then look for those qualities of your higher self. Look for the compassion. Do you feel compassion towards that part of you? Or do you feel connected to that part of you? Because it's a young part. It's a young feeling that needs your attention. Speaking to that in terms of feeling connected, something that I've really struggled with and I've heard other people speak about when they have trauma is bridging the gap between the old me and the new me.

I feel like I have a complete separation in identity from the girl who used to drink and cut and get crazy and party and do all the things I used to do. So I feel like my purpose too is to share and talk about my experiences.

But I find when I try to get in that headspace or even do inner child work, I have a complete identity split from who I used to be. When you get on stage and you speak about, you know, your addiction or the sexual abuse or any of the hard things you've gone through, do you feel like that is you? Or do you feel like that's someone else? I've always had the ability to...

really check inward and connect inward and know where I'm at in that moment and connect to the feelings, even from a feeling that was deep. Nevertheless, the more I have healed and connected to those parts of myself, those exiled parts is what they're called in internal family systems. There are these young abused children, children that experience trauma. There are parts of us that are so extreme,

And we didn't have the tools to work it out. And so those parts of me, I have compassion for now and I have a connection to them and I can be a calm presence for them. And so now I can be the witness of those experiences while they're not who I am anymore and I don't feel blended with them anymore and I'm not acting out from those places. I can see them as almost like little Gabby's inside of me that I am...

really proud of and that I am consciously connecting to and giving them a place to speak up when they need help and just helping them soften and soften. And then as a result of making that connection to those younger parts of myself, they've actually settled.

And so they've transmuted, they've transformed, they've been alchemized. So these young extreme parts of me, the cocaine addict, she is really valuable inside of me still, because you know what? She is helping me write my 10th book. She's making shit happen. She's on the move, but she's not doing cocaine anymore.

She's just, you know, she's like a powerhouse. She's writing books. She's writing books, but she's transcended. She's that phoenix rising. And so I don't have to cut them off anymore or I don't have to shame them or blame them. I can just see these different parts of me from my past and say, you did a really good job trying to keep me safe for as long as you did. It's time to calm down now and I can be with you. I can be a presence of safety for you. And so what I think might be happening for you right now is you might be still thinking

while you have healed so much, there may still be like a unconscious sense of fear of those parts of yourself. And so there's another part that comes in to protect you from them and that's dissociation.

And so that dissociation of like, oh, well, that's just a story I'm telling. It's not who I was. It's not integrated. And in a way, it's a way of saying, I don't, I still want to exile that part of me. Yeah. I'm still not fully there. That's okay though. And I think it's important because we need these protection mechanisms for as long as we need them. That's true. And as you mentioned, you didn't remember anything.

your trauma until you were 36. Look at what my dissociation did. Exactly. And maybe you weren't ready yet. Well, my therapist said, I said, why now? And she said, because you're safe enough to remember it now. Wow. And that shows progress, if anything. It's commitment. Yeah. Devotional therapy, spiritual development, sobriety, all of it. So you feel like we have to forgive our old selves in order to move forward? Oh, I don't think we have to do anything. But I do think that

When we begin to witness these experiences in these younger parts of ourselves, we don't start with those extreme ones. We start with just the patterns, right? So maybe you start with the food or you start with the workaholism or whatever that might be, the protection mechanisms. And we start to befriend those parts of ourselves and we start to see them as what they are, which is just protection mechanisms. And we connect to them, those steps of checking in and curiosity, connection and compassion, right?

we begin to no longer feel outraged by our behaviors or judgmental of our patterns, but instead we feel compassionate towards ourselves. And that happens so that it's not that you have to forgive, the forgiveness happens naturally. Mm-hmm.

I wish I was there. I mean, even when I do... You're well on your way, love. You're well on your way. You're doing the work. I feel like when I'm in therapy, for example, and we want to do an inner child exercise, I find it, I dissociate mid-conversation. Yeah, I did that for 12 years. That makes me feel better. I would fall asleep. It's that... I would legit fall asleep. I literally would go to sleep. That's how strong my dissociative part was.

And that's okay. And you tell your therapist that like, I'm not ready to work on this yet, but maybe we can connect to the part of me that's like over exercising right now. Yeah. She notices when I dissociate. She's like, I see that you just glazed over and you're not here anymore. And I almost, because I'm so...

I push myself so much. I almost push myself into exercises before I'm ready, I think. Yeah, that's something to be conscious of because you don't want to re-traumatize yourself. Yeah. I've heard someone say...

That if you do that to yourself repeatedly, you're almost making it worse than the original trauma. Yeah, don't freak yourself out and don't, you know, just be gentle. But yeah, I think that if you override yourself and you keep pushing yourself into it, that's not healing it, right? It's pushing it. Yeah. This is a very fragile young part of you that needs... What does... If you had a child right here that was traumatized, what would you do? Would you push it to let it out? No, you'd be curious. Yeah.

and you'd be compassionate and calm. Why won't we treat ourselves like that?

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I want to talk about shame. It's a big topic in this book. And I think so many of us are living in shame without even realizing it because we're burying it under emotions, habits, whatever it may be. How do we look for symptoms of shame and know when we're living in shame?

So we can know we're living in shame when we start to witness the shame responses. So some of the responses to shame are judgment of others. So if you're walking around and you're just like real nasty and gossipy and negative about other people, that's a shame response. That's, I don't feel good enough inside, so I have to project outward what I don't want to feel within. Or blaming and shaming yourself. Constant conversation internally of,

you're terrible. Why'd you do that again? How'd you get back here? All those stories. Checking out sometimes is a shame response. Just saying like, I'm totally dissociated. I'm walking around like can't focus on my presence. And noticing those responses that you may be living in

as a reflection of something that needs your attention, something that needs your healing. Now, shame is the most impermissible emotion. So trying to go straight to the shame sounds like you might be going a little hardcore on that one. And it doesn't mean that we don't witness it. It doesn't mean that we don't know that it's there.

But we maybe can start to heal some of the experiences and I would call it parts of us that are on the periphery first, right? So maybe the controlling part or maybe the workaholic or whoever it might be. We can give that some attention before we go hit the shame because the shame needs therapeutic work, I believe. It's delicate. It needs, and sometimes it just needs acknowledgement, but not in a way that's forceful, in a way that is relaxed and calm.

Let's say dissociation is a common theme, which I think more people are dissociated than they realize. Excuse me. On their phone all damn day. That's the biggest form of dissociation. I feel like people aren't even aware of their surroundings anymore. And it's such a such a form of distraction.

What are some key things we can do to ground ourselves if we find that we're dissociating? If you notice that you're dissociated. Yeah, I think that there's so many beautiful grounding exercises. Even in Happy Days, there's a whole chapter on the body. And I love that chapter. It's all about grounding. So you could place your hand on your heart and your hand on your belly and just breathe for one minute and just do deep belly breath. You could do the same where you hold your forehead and your heart.

That's another form of a hold to create safety. You could tap right here on this pinky finger and between the pinky finger and the ring finger, and it's right on the top of your hand. It's called the gamut point in EFT, emotional freedom technique. And if you tap that point and you just say, I'm safe, I'm safe, I'm in my body, I'm present, you can really ground and tell your brain that it's okay to relax. Breath, exercise, physical activity for sure. Yeah.

I feel like physical activity is a big one. I don't think people realize how

especially with weightlifting or Pilates, whatever it may be, you really are zoned into that muscle group or whatever you're doing and the phone's away. It really is a pretty grounding activity or even like I love horseback riding, something physical where you're connecting with yourself. Especially if you're outside. Definitely. Huge. In terms of shame, where do you think that shows up in a romantic relationship? It will definitely show up sexually. Yeah.

So you might, you know, feel resistance or just the shame response can make you dissociate. Especially if you've had trauma that's sexual in nature. So speaking for that is really important. So many women override themselves sexually or they are just performative or whatever it might be because there's just so much shame. And I say women because I think it's a really, it's not that men don't experience this as well, but I just see it in so many women.

I think shame in relationships shows up in a lot of our reactivity. So if we have a partner that we feel like is not showing up and not around, you know, we might lose our shit because we're feeling that shame of like, my parent wasn't there for me, right? These are attachment breaches that happen as children. So understanding your attachment style is very valuable. I have a whole podcast episode on that that we can send people to if they need to learn about it. But we have...

you know, a disorganized attachment style, which is very much the parents that just were not present. We didn't feel like we were safe. We didn't have our needs met. Yes. Then there's the secure attachment, which is like, you know, you were brought up and it was safe and it was good. And then there's an anxious attachment style. Like maybe they were there, maybe they weren't there. And so you go in and out of that kind of codependent behavior of like, stick around, please don't leave. And so-

The attachment styles that we carry really affect how shame shows up in those relationships and how we react. Because shame actually is a biological response to keep us connected to the parent. So if your parent, let's say like,

your parents walking across the street, your need to run after the parent and say, don't leave me, don't leave me. It's actually a shame response. And it's a positive shame response because it keeps us connected to the source of safety. Yeah. But...

it becomes very negative in our lives because those repeated behaviors, those repeated, not the one-off mom left the room quietly, but the repeated and the repetition of dad checked out, mom is absent, mom's anxious, whatever that is, that creates a perpetual shame response. And that perpetual shame response activates these different attachment styles within us.

Do you feel like shame festers when we don't talk about it? Because I think a lot of people listening, I mean, I feel lucky that I've been in therapy for so long. And also I get to share so much publicly. I feel like that has its pros and cons. But for people who, you know, have trauma or experiences in their life, they have shame around and they've never shared it. What do you think happens in the body when they do that? You know, I think that

Sharing it too soon could be too disruptive for your body as well. Yeah. A lot of people are so dissociated from their shame that they don't even know it's there. For me, I literally didn't even have words for it.

I was like six months after remembering the trauma from my past, I was leading a workshop and I was sitting in on one of the other teachers and she was leading a whole shame exercise. And I was like, in that moment, you know, a decade into being a spiritual teacher, writing six or seven self-help books, I'm like, holy shit, I have shame, right? Because it's such an impermissible feeling that we push it down and push it down and push it down and check out from it. So I would say it's not something you can push into.

But it will be revealed. And therapy is the safest way to let that shame be revealed. I know you've spoken about this in your book too. I feel like trauma for sure has an impact on our physical bodies. Yes. And shame in particular, we're either living in fight or flight. Our nervous system is activated. We have stress on our body on a daily basis. What's your story with the physical impact of shame? I think you spoke about your digestion issues. Mm-hmm.

For me, it mainly manifested in my gut, which then affected my skin and just everything, my brain fog and all of these other areas that get affected when the gut is out of balance. But I became...

I lived for over a decade, maybe 15, 20 years with extreme gastrointestinal issues from gastritis to SIBO to just GERD. I mean, just anything you could label in the gastro world, I had it. And no amount of diet or supplement or pill could fix this problem.

The only way that my gut healed was when I actually started to do the trauma healing. Because our bodies don't lie. Our bodies are constantly responding to the reactions inside.

So if our nervous system is constantly activated, constantly activated, we're constantly in a state of stress, that stress response creates tension in our body. That tension blocks blood flow. That blood flow block now creates dysbiosis in your gut because your digestion isn't actually working, right?

You're not actually letting that whole process of letting the viscera just do its thing. And so it's getting stuck. And in that stuckness, it creates bacteria and then you have SIBO. So it is a physical experience, but it's coming from an emotional state. And so I believe that our physical conditions, most of our physical conditions are psychosomatic. Right.

I had acne for 10 years and I'm right. And I'm just coming, starting to clear up. And I had SIBO as well. And I truly think I worked with a naturopath who for some reason decided to help me for free. And I said like, can I pay you? Can I pay you? I kept apologizing every single call we had and saying, please let me like compensate you for this.

And she said, I feel like a part of this journey is going to be you learning to accept help and support without questioning it. Beautiful. And I was like, wow. I think she saw that. I think a huge reason I had acne for such a long time was me internalizing so much of my experience and so much of my shame. And until I accepted help and started to be present in my body, I didn't see any progress. Well, think about it.

When we're stressed, we break out, right? When we're stressed, we have stomach issues. When we're stressed. So living with unprocessed trauma is a constant incessant stressor.

When every moment you're like, fight, flight, what's happening around me? Who's, you know, am I safe? Am I safe? Am I safe? That's a fucked up way to live. And so what's going on inside of you, your stomach starts getting activated. That activation in your stomach creates all kinds of inflammation and brain fog and acne and hormonal issues. So without a shadow of a doubt, you don't have a skin condition. You had repressed trauma. Yeah.

How do we know if we're living in fire or flight? Does your stomach hurt? Are you breaking out? Do you feel anxious all the time? Are you reactive? Are you unable to settle? Do you lack the feeling of presence? Are you looking for addictive behaviors to feel calm? Do you look for soothing mechanisms that are not supporting your system? I mean, literally, are you...

human these days, right? The deeper the trauma, the more extreme the trauma, the more extreme the reactivity to the trauma. But even small T trauma can create reactive patterns inside of us. Yeah, I think that's huge. And I think a lot of people feel like they don't have trauma because maybe they don't have that big T moment. When I went out on the book tour for Happy Days, I got interviewed 85 hours of interviews.

And people would be like, "Okay, let's talk about trauma." And they'd be like, "I don't have any trauma." And I'd be like, "Oh, really?" And then they'd be like, "Well, you know, like my dad was an alcoholic and he left my mom and we really had no money." And I'd be like, "Oh yeah, okay, so you didn't have any trauma." You know, and it wasn't a judgment. It was just like, people are so dissociated from the reality of their trauma.

I mean, listen, right now we're living through a fucking global crisis. There's two wars happening right now. I am a granddaughter of a Holocaust survivor. So that epigenetic trauma is in my cells. So when there's extreme violence against Jewish people, then what happens? I feel that legacy of trauma. And the same, if there's extreme violence towards innocent people,

in any country, Palestine, Ukraine, wherever they may be, that can ignite a epigenetic response of trauma that you may have lived through. And so we really can't be alive right now without experiencing trauma. We live through a global epidemic. So we are all traumatized. I agree with you 100%. I think it's good to acknowledge that for anyone listening who feels like something isn't right, but they don't feel like they have a reason. Everyone has their own unique reason.

i want to talk about medication because i personally have had i've had a bad relationship with medications and i've had a good relationship in the past i was put on a number of medications probably too much at once checked out from reality lost my personality it was really unhelpful for me but now i take

something that I feel really good on and has helped me feel safe. What's your take on medication? Well, medication saved my life. I had suicidal postpartum depression, which I don't think was that separate from my PTSD. I think that

those of, I'm not saying like anyone who has trauma is going to have postpartum depression, but I think that when you are already trauma inclined and then you have this huge hormonal and biological experience and then this huge experience of feeling unsafe because now you have to make a person safe in the world, it's very activating on a biological way. And it is...

something that needs medical support because when you're having that kind of brain imbalance, you can't meditate over it. That's just not gonna work. And I tried that. I mean, I almost lost my life because I kept pushing into this wellness world and didn't actually address the biochemical condition that was happening in my brain. Yeah. And so...

The medication has a really important place in the world and especially right now with all these people who are suffering and they may not actually have access to therapy or they may just not be ready to face into those extreme experiences. So it is a band-aid and it's also a support. One of the greatest things that my psychiatrist said to me was, this medication will help you do the deeper trauma work. And I gotta tell you, it has. And now at this stage of my life, I'm titrating down, not off necessarily, but down.

I feel like I've gotten my balance and my safety and I've been able to do that deeper therapeutic work. And I stayed on that medication for my second pregnancy and thank God I did because I was five and a half months pregnant and I lost the baby or I had to let go of the baby. So that medication has served me in postpartum and then the second postpartum. It's just unbelievable that it was God, God worked through that medicine for me. And now I'm ready to go down.

And so it's a season that we can rely on these or a lifetime if that's necessary. But the same way that we think like, oh, you know, it's spiritual to take ashwagandha. Okay, well, what the fuck? Why isn't it spiritual to take a medication if it's gonna serve you? Now there's two sides to your point. People are absolutely over-prescribing things. It isn't the solution to trauma. It is a bridge.

but it's not the solution. So if you're going to take the medication, do the deep work at the same time. And then you're truly using it for its purpose too. You're using it for its purpose, which is to really be a safe way of living through the reprocessing of something deeper. Because without that safety, it's so extreme that you're just going to fall asleep in therapy. I couldn't puncture it. When I finally became medicated because of the postpartum, it was clear like,

Oh, I actually feel safe enough to go deeper. I wouldn't have been able to do it otherwise. Sounds like spirituality has been in your life from childhood. How has your journey with spirituality changed over the years? And what would you say to anyone listening who may be like, what is spirituality? What does it mean? It's too woo-woo for them. I have always had a thin veil between this world and the spiritual realm. And now it's just thinner.

Now I can be in this room with you, but I can know that your guides are here. I could hear your guides. If I want to turn that on, I can listen. I can hear, I could channel.

Before, maybe five or six years ago, I would just sort of like spontaneously begin to channel. Now it's something I can turn off and on. And when I say channel, like really connect to a spiritual realm, whether it be an angelic presence or a spirit guide or an ancestor or a loved one that's no longer physically here. And so there is another energetic frequency that we can connect to when we open our heart to it. And that doesn't mean that we're necessarily all going to be like connecting to deceased family members or guides or

But we open up our consciousness and our energetic vibration to be a match for that frequency. And so the more we meditate and the more we pray and the more we tune in and the more we heal, the more our frequency begins to adjust to the frequency of the spiritual realm. And as that adjustment occurs, it becomes a match. And so it's just like being present with me here. I can be present with spirit in the same conversation.

If someone, hypothetically me, has the goal of being more connected and more spiritual, but doesn't really know where to begin, what would you recommend? Lots of little right actions.

So for the past 18 years, I have had a consistent practice of daily meditation, daily prayer, tuning in, tuning in, tuning in, therapy, supporting myself through self-help practices. And actually that's why I created the Gabby Coaching Membership. It's all there. It's inside this app that is an annual or a six-month membership with me as your coach, because I think so many people are out there thinking that they have to do so much and that it's so overwhelming and they have to have

hundreds of hours of therapy or read every book or go to every retreat and all of that helps. But it's what those small actions of the consistency of perpetually showing up and showing up and showing up and turning inward one minute a day,

that adds up to a spiritual awakening. And so inside this app, it's like, if you just open the app one day and you listen to my affirmation, I read these affirmations out, that alone could be your practice for the day. But you could go further and do the coaching practice or do any of the hundreds of meditations or workshops, whatever is there. And so just dipping in slightly daily

opens your heart to expand that presence. So I would say take the pressure off yourself, get in the Gabby Coaching membership, I'll get you in there and just start touching and touching and touching in those miracle moments, add up to living a miraculous life. I have never in my life prayed ever. And then I read Happy Days or I was listening to it and I did one of your serenity prayers.

And I actually did it. Like I got on my knees and did it. And I really liked it. I think it felt like a comforting moment for myself. And I felt like it was kind of a meditative moment. And I felt weird doing it at first, for sure. Like it was uncomfortable. And I think you even said like, this might feel uncomfortable if you've never done this before. But the more I did it, the better I got. And I felt like,

I felt like I was making progress on my spiritual journey. Major progress. And when I was first started a practice of prayer, it was in my early recovery. And my mentor in recovery would be like, get on your knees and pray. And I'd be like, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. But I would do it and I would do it and I would do it. And then eventually those prayers started to have big, big impacts on my life. Because if you're saying something to yourself over and over again and keeping your own promises, then you really are going to live out the life that you want. Yeah.

Yeah, and you're also surrendering. I love that. What does it mean to tap into our higher selves? I know you reference that term a lot. What does that mean to you? Well, we all have inside of us self with a capital S. And this is, again, based on the principles of internal family systems therapy. And so self is the...

undamaged, resourced adult part of who we are. It's the presence of who we are. It's the God within us, the spirit within us, the internal parent within us. And self has these C qualities of compassion, connection, creativity, calmness. And when we start to tap into those ways of living, curiosity, when we start to develop that connection to that self presence, then the more we live in that self, that higher self.

And so when you start to open the door for that self energy to come through, it starts to develop and develop and develop. And as you develop it, you can now show up for life with it. So when you're met with conflict, you can meet that conflict from self. Or if you're struggling with something personal, you can meet that struggle with self rather than meeting it from your triggered, activated younger parts of you. Do you have a practice that you do before you get on stage?

- Yeah, so for years and years, I'd be like, I need 30 minute meditation and I need to be... And the more seasoned you become as a speaker and the more present you become in your life,

the more everything becomes meditative. So I was just at a talk yesterday in Texas and I didn't, there was no like private green room and I was just with my producer, Josh, who's just like very grounding for me. And then I ran backstage and the hosts of this event had like a DJ and it's like vibrant energy. And we just got in the little backstage stage, just like a little stage backstage. I was just dancing with her and we were just like moving and dancing and grooving.

And that day, that was my meditation. So any form of tuning in. So for me that day, it was just genuine dance. Often if I have a green room, which I like to have, I'll just for 10 minutes sit and I'll welcome the spirit of the highest and best and most creative spirit to enter into my presence because...

That's something that I can turn on and turn off. I don't want to walk around the streets of New York City, like wide open to spirit, but I do want to get on stage as a channel to receive. And so I'll sit for 10 minutes. I'll welcome it in. I'll open my wings and I'll step onto stage. What do you think old Gabby would say if she could see you on stage with thousands of people? I mean, that's amazing. How old is this Gabby? Cause I've been doing this for 20 years.

I guess when you're at your lowest moment with addiction. Yeah, I think she'd say I knew it. That's incredible. You inspire me so much. I've never spoken on a stage before.

But I would love to one day. I'll help you. That would be amazing. I love teaching speaking training. It's my favorite thing. Because I feel like to connect with people in person and really see their faces would just be, I mean, obviously we have this podcast and we have many people listening, but it's just different in person. I mean, even when I run into someone on the street, it just means so much. Where would you say you're at right now on your healing journey? I feel really good. I love that. Are you anxious? I'm like, no. No.

I wish I could say the same. I feel good too, but I am always, I feel like I'm always anxious. Well, you're still working through things. Yeah. So be gentle with that anxious part and just give it some compassion, right? If you feel up for it, you know, just maybe even notice it more and just ask it what it needs. Yeah. How cool to be a boss and doing all the things you want to do, but be so at peace at the same time. A long fucking time to get here, honey.

Well, that makes me feel better. Now it's time for the question we ask every guest. I started this podcast because I believe everyone's pursuit of wellness looks different. What does wellness mean to you? Feeling the way I feel right now. Being present, being well in my body, great digestion, feeling like my side of the street is clean. Yeah.

I love it. Where can everyone find you and the app and the books online anywhere? Go do yourself a favor, everybody listening. And I mean this because I think that when you love something that you've created, you don't actually, you share it. You don't sell it. You're like, go get this thing. And I'm literally sharing it. So go, I want people to try seven days of my Gabby Coaching Membership.

And so you can go to the app store, just write in Gabby Coaching and you get access to a seven-day curated journey where I give you these daily practices or manifesting practices. And then if you like it, stick around. Don't leave. If you are like, this isn't for me, you can come back another time or don't do it, but just try it out. I think that that

is a very big right action today that someone can take towards their personal development. And if you're listening to all the way to the end of this, then you clearly want some kind of shift. So go do seven days with me at Gabby Coaching inside of the Apple Store or Android, wherever you are.

And you have to read Happy Days. Happy Days or Universe Has Your Back or, but this conversation is really geared towards Happy Days. So I think that's the book I would really recommend here. Thank you so much, Gabby. We really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and does not constitute a provider patient relationship.

As always, talk to your doctor or health team. Thank you for listening to today's episode. Go comment on my last Instagram at Mari Llewellyn with the guest you want to see next. I'll be picking one person from the comments to send our bloom greens to. Make sure you hit follow so you never miss my weekly episodes. If you enjoyed the conversation, be sure to share and leave a review. See you next week.

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