EP71: Skate or Die
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This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Whether you love true crime or comedy, celebrity interviews or news, you call the shots on what's in your podcast queue. And guess what? Now you can call them on your auto insurance too, with the Name Your Price tool from Progressive. It works just the way it sounds. You tell Progressive how much you want to pay for car insurance, and they'll show you coverage options that fit your budget.

Get your quote today at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. All right, welcome back to another episode of the Psychopedia Podcast. I am your co-host, Hank Sinatra, here with my psycho host. Investigators Slater. And we are complete as a podcast, and now we are done.

Well... Thanks for coming along on this journey with us. We're almost done. I have two more pictures that haven't arrived yet. No, I meant done with the podcast. What? Yeah.

This is, I'm a raging narcissist. I just wanted to get it to the point where it's all complete and then I have to abandon it. Okay. Yeah. Well, adios. I'm sticking around. Yeah. So if you notice, if you're on YouTube, you'll see behind us. And if you're not on, if you're like listening on Apple, Spotify, wherever, just go to YouTube for like a second, go to Psychopedia Podcast and check us the fuck out. Yeah, do that. Because we look sick. We are all

done except for, like you said, and now I feel like it is complete with little additions we may subtract or whatever, but we have murals behind us done by my friend Chris Soria, who is a famous pumpkin carver. Him and his buddy Mark Evan are the Maniac Pumpkin Carvers. He also does murals. He did a mural. I asked him yesterday when he dropped these off.

He did a mural at the Lululemon corporate, you know, whatever. In Soho. No, no, no. Oh, oh, oh. No, in Soho or NoHo. Did you suggest that he listen to our Lululemon massacre case? I said we just did a Lululemon case and you should check it out. Yeah, okay. So you did. Good. I did. Yeah, yeah. He's incredible. So shout out to- He is absolutely incredible. Also, a Comac guy. Yes. What is in the water over there? Rosie O'Donnell? Bob Costas? Rosie O'Donnell. Chris Soria? Yeah.

Listen, we like to create out here. We do. We come from a place of pain. Comac's a very rough area. I mean. Yeah, it's tough. It can be. It's tough coming up in Comac. It can be. Yeah. YouTube, PsychopediaPod. Check us out. Subscribe on there. Subscribe on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you listen.

It helps us. It helps you because then we get to keep doing the podcast if you like the podcast. Rate, review, share, whatever. Do what you're going to do with the podcast if you enjoy it. Right. Right? And on YouTube, maybe do your part and leave a heart. Yes, do your part and leave a heart. We've been seeing a lot of those fly in. So cute. Very quick. I know. When it happens, I feel like somebody's winking at us and I love it. Oh, we're winking right back. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Are you going to mention our third co-host for today? Yes.

I was going to let you do that. Okay. Yeah. Behind me, passed out on the recliner, is none other than Cash Slater.

Good boy. He's the best dog. We're getting no attention right now. This is good. Let him chill for this episode and then maybe when we do Patreon, he can walk around a little bit, whatever. Exactly. But yeah, he had a giant pup cup before we got here, like a full cup of sugar. Yeah. I don't know if that affects dogs the same way it would affect like a toddler. So I was a little worried to see what he'd be doing, but I'm happy to see that he's just his typical good boy self. We're going to get to the case, but

But before I do that, patreon.com slash psychopedia pod, unhinged, Tengopedia, and now Brookopedia, which is an extra case a month on the little freak level. Get over there. It's a full-blown true crime psychopedia case. You're going to love it. I hope so. So get over there. I already know what picture I'm going to post on Patreon when Brookopedia, if that's what we're calling it now, comes out. By the way, again, any suggestions for the...

Slaterpedia, Brookopedia case, if you have a cool name for it, let us know. We're in the market. Without further shabizness. I'll take that. I love it. I love it too. We had somebody, a new Patreon fucker. Shabimbo. Uh-huh. Yep. Shout out, Shabimbo. Without further shabimbo, why don't you let us get into this case? And I know you're very, very excited about it, as am I. Okay.

In the 1980s and early 1990s, skateboarding erupted into a full-blown cultural revolution, transforming from an underground pastime into a mainstream phenomenon. Oh my God. You're already pumped? I am. Skate parks sprang up across the nation, drawing in throngs of adrenaline junkies who sought the thrill of vert ramps and the kinship of a defiant...

anti-establishment community. Amen, sister. Legends like Tony Hawk, Christian Hosoi, and Steve Caballero shattered the limits of what was possible, executing gravity-defying tricks that captivated audiences and inspired an entire generation.

Their daring feats and rebellious spirit transformed skateboarding from a niche pastime into a vibrant subculture pulsing with raw energy and fearless innovation. Hell yeah, Tony Hawk did that. I know, your boy. Yeah. The atmosphere at competitions was electric with crowds roaring as skaters soared through the air to perform flips and spins with seemingly effortless grace. It was...

Oh, yeah. Oh, wait.

Who is it? Don't let your head explode. Give me two seconds. I can't.

I know, but just go, just go. His presence at any event guaranteed a spectacle as he seemed to possess an almost supernatural ability to defy the laws of physics. Yet, as the adage goes, what goes up must come down. Just like a skateboard that soars through the air only to crash back down to earth, this skater's rise to fame was matched by a catastrophic fall from grace.

Beneath the surface of his seemingly perfect life, darker issues festered. Personal struggles and erratic behavior began to overshadow his achievements. The same intensity that fueled his success on the ramps drove him down a path of self-destruction right off them. The skateboarding world was left in shock when the news broke. Their idol, their hero, had been arrested for a heinous crime.

It was a tragic fall for a man who had once stood at the pinnacle of the sport. The famous name that had inspired so many was now tainted with infamy. This is the case of the once rad turned bad Mark Gator Rogowski.

No idea who that is. Wow, that was anticlimactic. Yeah. Not, I had eight people, because skaters are like, you know, whatever, they're kind of, you know, they're wild. Yeah, they are wild, but can you imagine being known as the wild one amongst the wild ones? Yeah, that's bad. That's bad. That's like when your drug dealer tells you you got a problem. Yeah. It's like, me? Let's begin with a quick overview, unless you wanted to say something else.

Obviously, I want to say a million things. Sorry, I definitely kept moving there. I watched, or I'm watching, it's taken me a while to get through it, Unfrosted. Okay. It's a movie on Netflix that Jerry Seinfeld did about the origin of the Pop-Tart. Like actually the origin of the Pop-Tart? Is that a metaphor for something? No, no, no. Really. Fantastic.

Not. It's not. It's every line that comes forth in the movie. I'm like, this movie did not need to be made. Like it just was kind of like mailed in. I love Jerry Seinfeld. Yeah. When he produces things like there's a lot of talk about him right now because of, you know, some controversy. He's like a grumpy old man and young people are like, oh, why is this guy revered or whatever? Because he wouldn't hug.

Kesha? That's one of a thousand things. He's a kind of a... Like the one pop culture thing I know. He's a curmudgeon. Yeah, okay. And so is Larry David, but Larry David is like a... He'll wink at you after he says what he says. Okay. There's no wink with Jerry. Got it. But in that movie, Christian Slater plays a milkman. Mm-hmm.

And I mean, Gleaming the Cube, I fucking cannot even... I mentioned that movie in a little bit. I cannot emphasize enough how much of an impact that movie had on me as a 9, 10, 11, 12-year-old boy. Like, that movie, I watched it

a thousand times. I bet. Skateboarding culture for us, that's when it really boomed, which we're going to get into. Yeah. I was like reading parts of the case to Dave as I typically do just to practice on him and like do the pop quizzes. He could not contain his life. When this case breaks on Psychopedia, the pictures I am going to post of Firefighter Dave just...

In the fucking air. Talk about defying gravity. Ripping and shredding. He's sick on a skateboard. Yeah. The difference is, as he will tell you, that when he falls at 45 years old, it's a very different thing now. So different. You know what I mean? So dangerous. I know. I told him to wear a helmet and he just laughs, but he should. He should. It's not funny. No. You're going to find out why it's not funny because, you know. Let's hear it. I'm excited. All right. So let's begin with a quick overview of skateboarding, present and past.

Today, the surf and skate industry is a multi-billion dollar market that encompasses hundreds of international, continental, and national brands. About 85 million people skate worldwide, 75% of them being under the age of 18, making it the sixth most popular sport globally.

which I thought was very interesting. Soccer's number one, which is weird because we're in America and soccer's like, I know, but like leave America and it makes sense. There's other things like that, that I'm just like so perplexed by. Pistachio, the number one flavor in the world. My fave. By far. My fave. Not even close. I'm down with that. The rest of the world loves pistachio. We look at it as like a vegetable. Are you hearing me? I'm telling you it's my favorite flavor. I hear you, but.

But Americans, we want shit. We need it to taste like cotton candy Twinkies in order to be impressed. You know what I mean? And the metric system. What are we doing here? And the metric system is right. Yeah. You're right about that. You leave America, it's a totally different world. So in terms of how it began, this is me getting you back on track.

Good luck. Surfing can be traced as the source of skateboarding. In the early 1950s, some surfers in Southern California had the idea to transfer the feeling of riding waves onto the streets, hence becoming known as asphalt surfers. By the late 1950s, skateboarding experienced its first surge in popularity, particularly on the east and west coasts of the U.S.,

This boom was fueled by post-war America's economic prosperity, which impacted the toy industry and led to the mass production of these boards with wheels. Companies began cranking them out, making the sport more accessible and helping it gain widespread appeal.

By the 60s, the skateboard status changed from toy to sport. Magazines began to advertise the sale of skateboards and clothing companies like Vans, Converse, and DC Shoes began to specialize in skateboarding. Wait, these shoes were around back then? Back then. Wow. By the 1970s slash 1980s, the popularity of skateboarding began to spread globally and earning money as a pro skater became a reality for many. Yeah. Including Mark, Dave,

Gator Rogowski. Mark Anthony Rogowski, a.k.a. Gator, was born on August 10, 1966 in Brooklyn, New York, and moved with his mother and older brother to San Diego at the age of three following his parents' divorce. They eventually settled in Escondido, a sun-soaked middle-class suburb in northern San Diego County. And

And this was quintessential Ronald Reagan era America characterized by disaffected youth and a rise of anti-establishment, middle-class subcultures, such as punk and skateboarding. It was such a good time. It was. It really was. I don't mean to fucking pine for the days of old. You know, I don't like that. That's not your style. But... Go there for a minute because I want to go there too. The late 70s into the early 90s, so maybe like a 15, 16 year span.

Awesome. Fucking great time. Yeah. Like the fact that 90s fashion for me is back, like makes me so happy. Back? I mean, you never. I never left it. Don't call it a comeback. Fair enough. Been here for years wearing bell bottoms and chains and shit. Shut up. It's my vibe.

But like just thinking about the skating culture in particular in the 80s and like early 90s, I just get the best feeling. I feel like a kid again. I think that has a lot to do with it because that was our youth. Yeah, I guess. I think, you know, everyone makes the argument, oh, no, the 50s was the best. Well, that's because you were seven in the 50s and you didn't have to go to work. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. But I stand by it.

So it was here in San Diego amongst this middle class anti-establishment subculture at the age of seven that Gator, who was extremely athletic, discovered his passion for skateboarding.

So real quick, I just want to talk about how and why skateboarding was considered like a middle finger to society kind of sport. Originating, as I said, from surf culture. Skateboarding from day one adopted a nonconformist attitude with skaters often seen as rebels who defied societal norms and authority. The sport thrived on a do-it-yourself kind of ethos with skateboarders building their own ramps and inventing new tricks outside the boundaries of organized, disciplined, rule-following sports.

And this self-reliant and innovative spirit was at odds with mainstream values. Furthermore, skateboarders often used urban environments in badass ways, skating on public streets, private properties, and abandoned pools, which frequently led to clashes with law enforcement and property owners.

The fashion and music associated with skateboarding, including punk rock and streetwear, further emphasized its rebellious identity. And as a result, skateboarding as a whole became a symbol of youth rebellion and nonconformity and a deliberate rejection of societal expectations and norms. I think it's because, so like there's a couple of sports or activities that are considered like rebellious. It's all stuff that there's no team.

Right. So like if you buck this system of a team and working together with other people, you're kind of seen as like an outsider or a loner. And you may be like for me when I was skateboarding, I wasn't skateboarding alone. Right. I was always skateboarding with other people, but nobody could do the kickflip for me, which I really wish they could have because I could never nail it. I landed it like three times in my entire life. I should ask your other, Dave, to show you. Wait, I know how to do it. Well. I just can't. Okay. Okay.

You understand? Yeah, I do. Like, I understand the mechanics of it. Yes, I get it. I get it. That's like when I try to pronounce a word. I understand how it's supposed to be pronounced, but my mouth just won't do it. Yeah, my body does not comply with... The limits of my body are way lower than the limits of my brain. Got it. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big ROAS man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend.

My friend's still laughing at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com slash results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be.

By 1977, at the age of just 10, Gator was skating regularly and sharpened his skills down at local skate parks in Escondido, San Diego, as well as in a drained pool in the shape of a bra, which people refer to as the 42D Bowl.

Nice. That's good, right? Pretty good. But as much time as he spent skating with the other kids, Gator struggled to fit in due to financial constraints. Reflecting back on that time in life during an interview with Thrasher Magazine in 1987, Mark said that he was a social outcast.

Do you like that? Dope. I'm trying to get into the theme of the case here. Is that what he said? No, I said it. Oh, well, yeah, it's cool. I mean, it didn't fit you at all. Okay. I can't say dope either. I've tried it a couple of times. Yeah. I always feel so old and white when I say dope. Yeah, well, you took the fun out of that word. I'm not young and cool. I mean, you're middle-aged and cool.

What? Watch your fucking mouth there. I am the perfect age. You are. You are. Also, you're older than me, so whatever. Just had to get that out. Not by much. So it didn't really matter to Gator that he was a social outcast because he was there for the love of the sport. And he fucking crushed all of the label whores who left him out of their little social circles. Yeah. Not only did Gator's dedication to skateboarding transcend the superficial interests of his peers...

But his aggressive style, innovative tricks, charismatic personality, and good looks caused him to smoke everyone around him. Oh, he was hot? Yes. It also earned him his nickname, Gator, which originated from his fluid, powerful, stealthy, yet forceful nature on the skateboard.

With green eyes and dark hair coupled with outstanding, truly, athleticism, Gator was impossible to overlook or sideline. As such, by the time he was 14, he was an absolute legend. By 1982, Gator was picked up by the local skate park team and began regularly performing in competitions big and small.

At just 16 years old, he placed first in the Canadian Amateur Skateboarding Championships in Vancouver, his first major title amongst countless other local wins. Along with Tony Hawk and Christian Hissoy, who's a social outcast now, Gator completed the ultimate triad of skating superstars in the 1980s.

They were just absolutely killing it. I remember seeing a picture of Christian Hosoi. Yeah. Ollie over like nine decks, I think. Insane. So the three of them were jet-setting around the world, amassing fans, attracting girls, regularly appearing in magazines and on television, and raking in a shit ton of money from countless competitions and big-name sponsors. A skater deck, which is the board of a skateboard in case...

people aren't with it, would sell for up to $50 of which Gator would receive $2. At their peak, no, monthly sales of the Gator board reached $7,000, which is almost like $20,000 a month in today's money. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Wait, the sales are his part? I think his part. Oh, wow. And the cash money flow did not end there. Gator had contest winnings and countless endorsements, lending his name to several products made by Vision Sport, which was a massive skateboard merchandising company at the time. You know it? I am just nine years old right now. I know, I know. It's cute. I see it.

Vision created a Gator fashion line adorned with his signature graphics. If you saw it, you would know it. And bright designs, which included bold geometric patterns, a psychedelic swirl pattern in neon colors, reptilian imagery playing off his nickname Gator, and influences from graffiti and street art. I am remembering him now, by the way. Yes, I know. I know. Once it hits you, because it did take Dave a minute also, he was like, oh my God, Gator? Gator?

You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Because honestly, because of what happened in this case, he went away. You know what I mean? Well, I was just thinking like, you know, playing Tony Hawk pro skater, like he's not in that, but he was, you know, he did something that landed him on fucking psychopedia. Exactly. So they probably tried to like erase his name as much as possible just to dissociate from an already kind of looked down upon sport.

Correct. I think that's correct. Yeah. His designs and his image were plastered on shirts, berets, which were like a thing, which I don't remember. In the 80s? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I don't remember that. Fanny packs, I'll remember because I had one. Videos, stickers, and posters. Gator was truly on rock star status. He was on X Games, my own. What the fuck was that? You don't know what that is. Is it pop culture? It is a very...

famous video meme of this woman who saw some kid doing something and she was like, maybe it was a woman, maybe it was a young person, I don't know. Oh, oh, he on X Games, my own. I still don't know.

Oh my God. X Games mode. Oh. Yeah. Okay. Got it. Don't know it. I'll have to pull it up for you and show you. It's just too current for me, you know? It's not even that current. It's a fucking meme. I don't know it. Yeah. Okay. Wow. I don't know why I got so aggressive. I'm so sorry. She on X Games mode. I think I'm just feeling it.

But lurking beneath the grungy glamour of skateboarding stardom for Gator was a much darker side. As Gator himself indicated in the 87th Thrasher interview that I referenced earlier, when describing the rush he got from riding walls at 90 degrees, he said, quote, it's a real productive way of venting some way harsh aggressions. Instead of breaking a bottle and slashing somebody's face, you're throwing yourself at a wall with sweat dripping in your eyes. And

End quote. At the time, he even bragged to friends that while touring the South, he would walk into liquor stores and 7-Elevens stark naked, rob them, and then get wasted in the cornfields while police helicopters circled overhead searching for him. Did he stay naked? I don't know.

No. That's an important factor. Maybe he found the green stuff around a corn and covered himself like Tarzan style. I mean, that's really crazy and interesting. Yeah. I mean, like I've said before...

If you ever find yourself in a situation where you're about to fight or get beat up and you don't want to, just take all of your clothes off. Yeah. Nobody's going to fuck with that. Nobody will bother you. Yeah. You're too weird even for the guy who was ready to throw down with you. I mean, if a finger winds up in your butthole, like it's a big, it's more threatening to be honest with you. Yeah.

So prior to that interview that I just mentioned, which happened in 1987, in 1986, an incident occurred at a skateboarding competition called Mount Trashmore in Virginia Beach. The park was built on a former landfill, hence the name, and was a very popular venue for skateboarding competitions and events.

So, Gator arrived late to this event, showing up in his car about 10 minutes before he was scheduled to compete. Wow. He started gunning his car through the parking lot, blowing past police officers who were attempting to chase him down. Gator got out of his car, flicked off the cops as the crowd went absolutely wild for him, and then attempted to compete as scheduled.

The cops, however, had other ideas for the reckless kid who just broke several laws right in front of them, including assaulting one of the police officers. So they subdued Gator, which caused the whole fuck establishment teenage crowd to essentially riot.

As they were there to see Gator skate, and now he was lying on the concrete with handcuffs on, face down. He was inciting crowds. He was just reckless. Yeah, yeah. And this type of wild behavior was completely characteristic of who Gator was and who he had become, which was really a menace to society in more ways than just that. Shout out to O-Dog. Yeah. Yeah.

He was constantly getting into fights, clashing with law enforcement, and frequently spending nights or weekends in jail for disorderly conduct and assaulting police officers. So we're seeing, what, an escalation of behavior, right? Yeah, and I have to mention at this point, like, fuck establishment people are, you know, interesting. I think I was there. But even I at that point was like...

I mean, he could have killed a lot of people. He's probably the establishment in this case maybe isn't the bad guy here. I think in a lot of cases, establishment isn't the bad guy. But yeah, when you're driving your car through a crowd, yeah, you're the problem. It's been established you should not do that. Correct. Yeah.

So this type of wild behavior continued to escalate. And then when he was 21 years old, he was on tour in Scottsdale, Arizona, when he met two beautiful 17-year-old girls from wealthy families named Jessica Bergston and Brandy McClain. Jessica wound up meeting Christian Hassoy at this competition, and the two of them hit it off and spent the rest of the day all up in each other's shabizness. Hmm.

Gator hit it off with Jessica's friend, Brandy, and their connection, while illegal technically given their respective ages, was described as being powerful, intense, and genuine. Was the Romeo and Juliet law a thing yet at that point? I don't know.

Do you know what that is? Yeah. You want to tell us what it is, though? I don't know what it is exactly. I just know that, like, obviously in certain, whatever the state is, let's use 18 as the average and probably the right age, because I think there's states where it's like 14 is the age of consent, which is a little weird. If you are 19 and dating somebody who's 16, let's say you got together when, you know, you

You were a junior, they were a freshman, or whatever it is. And as you grow, you age out of technically being able to date them legally, but...

because it's not as big of a gap as like, let's say, a 17-year-old getting together with a 25-year-old. I don't know. I feel like it's like three or four years up to a certain point. It is three or four years. So the Romeo and Juliet law is a legal provision that aims to prevent the prosecution of individuals who engage in consensual sexual activity when both participants are close in age, but one is technically below the age of consent. I think that's more like age.

18 and 17 type of thing. Yeah. And they're intended to protect young couples from severe criminal charges and the lifelong consequences of being labeled as sex offenders. I just used the example I did because I thought that was like the max, but obviously it's more closer to what you were saying. Right. Well, you have to take into consideration the age difference, consent, and then the age limits. Yeah.

So to Gator, his connection with Brandy felt far more profound than just a typical famous skater boy slash groupie vibe. And skater boy in my script is SK number eight ER BOI.

He was a skater boy. He said, see you later, boy. Very good. Averill Lothian. Sure enough, within about a year, Brandy, who was now about 19, left Arizona to move in with Gator, who's now about 23. And the pair began to live that quintessential pro-athlete rock star lifestyle. They began professionally modeling together and living out the American dream as the hottest couple in the game.

Pop quiz. What did Brandy and Gator do together in 1989? A, star in a porno called Riding Your Rail. B, briefly co-host a dating show on MTV called Grind and Find.

C, appear in Tom Petty's music video for Free Fallin'. C. Correct. Yeah. Did you know it? I know that Grind and Find was not a show on MTV because I watched literally every fucking... Singled out. Every thing that's ever been on MTV up to 1998. And, uh...

The porn thing was just too funny to be true. Okay. Well, yours truly came up with that. Yeah. And Free Fallin' was very, you know, skateboard heavy. Yeah. When I did this quiz with Dave, he knew it was that. Not that he knew it was Gator, but he just remembered there being a skateboarder and like a girl in the background cheering for him. Like the whole time. Yeah. Yeah.

So Gator, along with Tony Hawk, also appeared, as you already mentioned, in the 1989 skater movie called Gleaming the Cube. He was in Gleaming the Cube? Yes, he was, which starred Christian Slater. Do you know what Gleaming the Cube means, by the way? Oh, fuck.

No, I'm going to say no. Pushing your limits to the edge. That's what I was going to say. Cool. Yeah. So by all accounts, Gator was continuing to crush life on every front. According to Brandy, she and Gator got high every night, regularly got wasted together in the jacuzzi of their upscale condominium, and had wild sex five times a day.

Gator spent loads of money on Brandy, bought her two luxury cars, and flew her all around the world with him to attend competitions. In Gleaming the Cube, there's one character, I can't remember his name, he had red hair, he lived in like a basement with a half of a pipe in it or something into the wall. Okay. He wore a beret a lot. Oh. Yeah. I can kind of picture the beret now that we're like talking about it a little more. I'm not saying it's cool, but it was. I think I

I think I might wear a beret next time. You can find a different co-host then. We record. You won't let me put ears on my headphones. You won't let me wear a beret. I won't let you do ridiculous things. No. I'm going to actually realize that you don't have that power and I'm going to do it anyway. How about you get a beret with fucking cat ears on it and just put me out of my misery? How about that? Let's try it. Let's see what happens. Yeah, let's see you talk to nobody next week.

Unfortunately for Gator, things were starting to change in the skateboarding world by the late 1980s. A new and trendier style of skateboarding known as street skating emerged, which involved skaters using urban obstacles like curbs, garbage cans, and stairways instead of traditional skateboard parks and ramps. He was more like a vert skater? He was a vert, exactly. Street skaters wore their pants low, they avoided protective pads and helmets, and they often had frequent run-ins with the police, like legit ones. Yeah.

Street skating was louder, more dangerous, and decidedly more anti-establishment than traditional skating, and easier to emulate since you didn't need a ramp, which made it more appealing and accessible to the younger generation. Vertical ramp skating techniques, or as you said, right, it's really referred to as vert skating, in which Gator excelled and earned his stripes, were rapidly becoming obsolete.

Meanwhile, Vision, which is the company that sponsored Gator and many other top skaters, was on the brink of filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Except for Tony Hawk, none of the popular pros could really skate, both vert and street. And Gator was stressed out about it. When discussing the possibility of having to quit skating as he knew it, Gator once indicated to Thrasher Magazine the following...

quote,

No way I'd kill myself, lose my spirit. I'd float away and my carcass would get buried. So fucking dark. This guy is very dark. He's very narcissistic. He's very over the top, sort of needs the attention in any way that he can get it. And when he was at the top of his game, he was getting it sort of organically through his athleticism, like earning it. But he was also milking it. You know what I mean? Like he loved it.

And then what we're starting to see at this point in the case is that things around him that were out of his control were changing and it was sidelining him for the first time. So he had to sort of change course a little bit and wound up doing things that put him back in the spotlight, but not for great reasons. There's this thing that people do where they...

get into something at the right time because the thing that they're good at is being valued at that time. And then once it changes, as it does always, I've been, I've been through, I can't even five or six massive, massive changes on Instagram in the last 10 years.

And I always think of like people that I know that were successful in business, like they, you know, landscapers or the fence guy that I worked for. There was always something new being implemented into the company, whether it was material or approach or software or whatever. You have to adapt. The only thing that stays the same is change. Exactly. The only constant is change. Thanks for saying it better.

At just 24 years old, Gator felt himself getting pushed out of the very scene that he'd been completely dominating and that he really did help bring into the forefront. And at that age, you're still like, no, no, no, I'm the center of attention. The world should be adapting to me, not the other way around. He didn't know life any other way. Yeah. He became a legend at 14. Yeah.

It was a tough pill to swallow. Keep in mind that he also dropped out of high school in the 10th grade to pursue skating, so he didn't even have a complete education necessarily to fall back on.

At this stage, Gator started partying harder, drinking more, and making even more reckless decisions. And then everything in October 1989 changed for Gator when the following major incident occurred. Pop quiz. What major incident occurred? 1989, Gator. Okay. A, Brandy got pregnant by a different man. B, Gator sustained massive injuries after jumping out of a second-story window while drunk.

B. Yes. I'm fucking killing it. Yeah. I'm the Tony Hawk of these pop quizzes right now. Today, maybe. Yes, very good. I'm going to give you your props.

While on tour in what was then called West Germany, Gator, convinced that he could fly, jumped from a two-story window of a hotel and landed on a wrought iron fence. Oh, my God. Impaling his neck, face, and thumb. He barely survived significant injuries, which included a broken neck and severe head trauma. Oh, my God. I knew a girl. I worked with a girl who...

It wasn't that bad, but she fell out of the second story of her house onto her face. She was blackout drunk. And that was right after I stopped drinking. I couldn't shake it. Couldn't stop thinking about it. Really horrific. She was out there for like three hours, just like unconscious. Oh my God.

Upon returning home from West Germany, Gator spent months in San Diego with plastic surgeons trying to save face, literally and figuratively. Nice. But more than his physical changes, Gator emerged from this traumatic incident a completely different human being behaviorally.

He experienced increased instability, emotional volatility, and erratic behavior. And we know, Tank, that traumatic brain injuries or TBIs can indeed cause a range of cognitive and behavioral changes, including impulsivity, aggression, depression, and impaired judgment. Also, until that point, just to compound everything else happening, Gator had also been living with undiagnosed bipolar disorder as well.

Following the fall, everything about Gator changed. His behavior, even the way he spoke, everything was different. So while he wound up emerging from the accident physically looking the same, with the exception of a bit of a wonky eye, the words that now came out of his mouth sounded less stokey and more holy.

According to Gator, Jesus Christ spoke to him through the accident. As indicated by Gator, and this is a quote, I was a blind dude, but now I can see. Even though my eye's wonky. Yeah. And with that, Gator, now known as the Skateboard Minister, had been reborn.

and the Gator that everyone had known until that point was no longer. Once Gator's physical wounds healed, he bought a ranch in the mountains very close to Tony Hawk, started covering his boards with religious symbols, and regularly preached on the beach about his secret friend Jesus Christ to other skaters, surfers, and random passersby. He was no longer about that rough-around-the-edges bad boy image. Now he wanted to settle down.

Work for Enterprise Car Rental. Start taking baby aspirin. What? It's from Step Brothers. Work at Enterprise Car Rental. Remember when they were all of a sudden acting like they were adults for the first time in their lives and they're like, I'm going to

get a job at Enterprise because they take care of you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought you would have caught that sooner. It struck something in me, but it was like an empty ringing bell inside me that I couldn't place. Okay. Most people in Gator's life at this stage just dismiss this new behavior as another over-the-top fanatical Gator antic. But Randy, who was still with him, was not having any

any of it. She grew bored of this much tamer lifestyle and resented that Gator, who now went by Mark Anthony, demanded that she regularly join him at Cavalry Chapel and embrace Jesus with him. Gone were the parties, drugs, and flashy purchases. Gator even started refusing to have sex with Brandy, telling her that they could only continue being intimate if they got married.

And that was the final straw for Randy Brandy. Randy moved out of Gator's ranch and in with her mother and stepfather, who had recently moved to San Diego, which absolutely devastated Gator. She was done with him. Yeah. And while he turned to religion even more during this time, he simultaneously began behaving in a less than Christian way towards Brandy.

He started to harass her by calling her mother's house and leaving vile messages on their answering machine, saying things like, you bitch, you C-U-N-T, I don't know why I paused on that word, you're going to fry in hell from your toes. Yeah, very Christian. It always baffles me when people get hung up on one aspect of Christianity, like not cursing or not having sex, and then they fucking abuse others.

And hate people. It's like, have sex and love people. I mean, if you have to choose, if you can't swallow it all...

Go with the other thing. Agreed. Yeah. According to an investigator named Terry Jensen from the San Diego District Attorney's Office, Brandy came home one night to find that Gator had allegedly, and we have to say allegedly because it was never proven, but like he definitely did it, but allegedly had broken into her house through a window and had taken back everything he ever bought her, including her car. Nothing else in the house was touched. Wow.

Just what he got her. Exactly. Furious that Brandy started dating someone else, a six foot one blonde surfer whom she referred to as little surfer. So like how gigantic were these other dudes that she was dating? If like her six foot one boyfriend was little surfer. Anyway, Gator, after convincing Brandy to get into his car with him, drove her out in the middle of nowhere and proclaimed that she deserved for him to

to drive her out to the desert and beat the shit out of her. Okay. Seems reasonable. Then he said, and this is a quote, and I would get away with it because everyone would know that you deserved it. All because she's dating somebody else. Yeah, how dare she? Brandy cried, begged, and pleaded for Gator to take her home, reminding him that her mother knew where she was and who she was with.

So, Gator wound up turning the car around and bringing her to safety. Thank goodness for Brandy. But Brandy knew that this was not just an empty threat and that as long as Gator knew where she was, she'd never be safe. So, she secretly moved 3,000 miles away to New York without telling a single soul where she was going except for her parents.

She didn't even tell her best friend from Arizona, Jessica Bergsten, who, if you remember, I mentioned her name earlier. Is she still rocking with Christian Hosoi at that point? No, she's not. Okay. So when Jessica showed up in San Diego a few weeks later after Brandy had already gone to New York on Wednesday, March 20th, and learned that Brandy wasn't there, she asked Gator if he could show her around town instead.

Devastatingly, this wound up costing Jessica her life. Oh, man. Because on Wednesday, March 20th, 1991, Jessica and Gator had lunch at an Italian restaurant in La Jolla. Is it La Jolla or La Jolla? La Jolla. Is it La Jolla or La Jolla? Neither. It's La Jolla. Guess we're keeping that in.

in La Jolla before going back to his condo with some movies and a few bottles of wine. So at lunch, they're going to do movies and wine. But as Jessica was getting ready to leave, Gator indicated that he needed to go out to his car in the garage to see if his driver's license was in there because he was planning to drive Jessica home later that evening. Waiting in his living room, Jessica decided to look at a picture he had displayed on his mantle, which showed Gator skydiving, screaming at the top of his lungs while free-falling. It was apparently his favorite picture.

And as she stared at the picture on his mantle, she had her back turned to the larger part of the room and remained completely unaware of what or who was creeping up behind her. Free falling. No.

No. Yes. It was Gator holding a metal steering wheel lock known as the club. Oh, shit. Yeah. Back then? Yep. In two or three swift motions, Gator brought the steel club down on Jessica's head and face with a fury that was unmatched by anything anyone had ever seen of him before.

There was no argument. There were no warning signs, just a blindsided ambush. Jessica instantly fell to the floor with hot blood gushing from the open wounds on her head and face, soaking through the carpet beneath her now fallen body. Gator then handcuffed a wounded, terrified Jessica and carried her upstairs into his bedroom.

There, he shackled Jessica to his bed, cut her clothing off with a scissors, and proceeded to rape her for three hours. Oh, my God. Jessica begged for Gator to stop and even mustered the strength to occasionally scream out for help. Because remember, she's wounded. Oh, yeah. A lot of blood loss, too. Right.

Horrifyingly, in an attempt to silence Jessica's panic-stricken screams, Gator shoved her into a surfboard bag that he took out of his closet, which effectively wound up serving as a body bag because Jessica was unable to breathe inside of this bag and she screamed out to Gator telling him that she couldn't breathe. At which point, Gator, in an effort likely to like finally silence her,

clasped his brutal hands around her neck and strangled her to death. Through the bag? He put his hands inside the bag and strangled her.

Gator immediately snapped into cover-up mode and flipped his mattress over to hide the copious amounts of blood that drenched through it before placing Jessica's body, which was already in the bag, as well as her shredded clothing, which he cut off, as well as the handcuffs, as well as the murder weapon, all into the trunk of his car.

He drove for two hours until he reached the desert, where he pulled off the highway to an isolated area called Shell Canyon and proceeded to callously bury Jessica's naked body in a shallow grave. Then he decided to drive 350 miles to Phoenix, Arizona, and toss the bloodstained clothing, bedsheets, and murder weapon out of his car window along the journey.

Before heading back to his condo in San Diego, Gator also rented a carpet steamer to clean Jessica's blood from his home once he got back. It took three weeks for Jessica's skeletal remains to be discovered on April 10, 1991, in the desert by a little boy named David Lyon, who was out in Shell Canyon vacationing with his family.

Mm-hmm.

because she was exposed to the elements and also animals. Oh, my God. Still, certain observations were made by the San Diego County medical examiner, Dr. Brian Blackburn, who was called out to the scene and who later conducted the autopsy. Dr. Blackburn indicated that several of the victim's upper teeth were missing and were saying the victim because they didn't have an ID yet, and likely those teeth were knocked out during the attack.

The hands, feet, and one calf were mummified from the elements, and some fingerprints that were determined to have belonged to Jessica were eventually lifted, but not for a little while. Dr. Blackburn was unable to determine how long the body had been there or when the victim was killed due to the high level of decomposition.

Meanwhile, Gator carried on with life and was out and about evangelizing, completely unaware, or really probably not giving a fuck, that Jessica's remains were discovered and now under analysis. He was out preaching the word of God while this was all going on? Yes, sir. I see the irony is not lost on you. That's good. Yeah. Wow. Horrific.

In Gator's mind, he'd gotten away with murder. But then, on May 5th, something unexpected happened. Pop quiz. What happened? I'm on it today. I may have to, like, work on my tell. I like to surprise you with these.

A, Brandy returned from New York to speak with police about the unidentified female remains discovered in the desert recalling Gator's threat to kill her there. B, a former pro surfer convinced Gator to surrender after he confessed to him that he killed a woman. C, famous Gator Christian Hosoi reported Gator to the police upon finding blood in his car and observing a significant change in his recent behavior.

Okay, so Brandy came back. What was the second one again? Former pro surfer convinced Gator to turn himself in. Yep, or Christian Desoi. Reported him. Yeah, fuck. This is a good one. I believe that it is A. False. Very good. You got me. B. False.

True. Okay, cool. Good. Correct. This is fucking crazy. This is just wild. Listen to this. In the early morning of May 5th, a former pro-surfer turned zealous Jesus believer, Augie Constantino, drove Gator to the police department where he proceeded to turn himself in. And here's why. Upon Jessica's initial disappearance, her father, Stephen Bergston, who was an attorney in Tucson, Arizona, said,

flew out to San Diego to search for his daughter himself. He plastered all of San Diego County with missing person posters that included a photo of a smiling Jessica, along with her identifying stats that she was 5'8", 115 pounds, had blonde hair, blue eyes, and a fair complexion. Stephen talked to Jessica's friends and even met with Gator to ask if he knew where Jessica was. Gator apparently shook the hand of the father of the woman he ruthlessly killed last

looked him in the eye and claimed he had no idea where Jessica had gone. After weeks of no leads or word from Jessica, Stephen eventually returned back to Arizona, but he left Jessica's pictures hanging around town in San Diego, including next to a phone booth at a 7-Eleven just two blocks away from Gator's condo.

This area was a frequent spot for Gator and Augie Constantino to preach, which they often did together. Augie, who had also found Jesus after sustaining a career-ending head injury four years earlier, often joined Gator in their evangelical efforts and considered himself to be Gator's spiritual advisor. So the two of them would go around preaching.

And a popular spot for them was the 7-Eleven near Gator's condo. Yeah. Seeing the picture of Jessica in the presence of his devout friend and spiritual advisor, Augie, was too much for Gator to bear. So then, following a Bible study session at Augie's house, Gator returned with tears streaming down his face. And according to Augie, and this is a quote, quote,

Gator was crying and said that he was Judas. We both sat and cried. We prayed for about an hour, asking God what we should do." At this point, Gator had not confessed yet to Augie about killing anyone. He was just simply crying and praying and seeking forgiveness. Augie didn't know exactly about what. About a week later is when Gator approached Augie and revealed...

That he killed her. And he goes, remember that girl in the poster? She was the one I killed. Oh, my God. So he's not like a, you know, he's obviously not a great person, but he does have some kind of conscience. I was thinking about what that drive must have been like, that two-hour drive after he killed her. Like, frenetic panic, energy, guilt, shame, remorse. I mean, I can't even begin to fathom.

what that was like. I'm not saying I feel bad for him. I'm just saying from a psychological point of view, that must have been fucked up. Well, and speaking of a psychological point of view, the cover-up is what makes the crime so much more serious. Yeah. You know, if he snapped, which he did arguably, but it does sound like he planned it in enough time to make a premeditated murder, like he went out, he got the murder weapon, he...

devised a plan to sneak out, tell her he was going to his garage. Like all of that is more than just an instantaneous snap. But then the coverup on top of it, where's your Christlike behavior, man? Well, take the Scissor Sisters who defended their mother and then did something infinitely worse. Following. Yeah. Defending their mother. I mean, I guess you, if you snap, you panic. I don't know, maybe you don't snap. Maybe you just kind of like lose it. And then you panic and you're like, I don't want to go to jail.

Well, you go into survival mode, which is ironic because you just took away somebody else's survival. Yeah. So like, fuck you. But yeah. So in the early morning of May 5th,

Augie drove Gator to the police station and convinced him to turn himself in. He further advised Gator that he didn't need an attorney or the principle of innocent until proven guilty as he answered to a higher power. In retrospect, Augie later clarified that he was only offering spiritual, not legal advice and that Gator was fully aware of the legal consequences of confessing the murder to the police. Did he go there knowing, did he drive there knowing that that's why he was going there? Oh, okay. I don't know if it was like a dog vet situation there. Yeah.

Let's go to the skate park, buddy. What the fuck are we doing at the police precinct? You want to go buh-bye in the car? Oh, hell no. I smell vet medicine. So once Gator turned himself in, police compared the fingerprints off the skeletal remains found in the desert weeks and weeks earlier, and sure enough, they were a match for the young woman Gator had confessed to killing.

On the morning of May 6th, Gator led Detective Richard Castaneda in Carlsbad, California, to the location where he had buried Jessica's body. Even though it was already found, he brought them back to the scene. Yeah. And as they searched the area...

Gator observed and he wasn't handcuffed, which I think is weird. Did they tell him where the scene was or that was part of like the thing? Exactly. Let's see if you know. Exactly. So he led them back there and he watched unhandcuffed, which I don't know, it's just a weird detail I felt the need to mention because I'm thinking like, you know that this guy did what he did and he's just standing there. Yeah. Anyway, he watched while the detectives dug for additional evidence and took photographs of the site in case he later pleaded not guilty to the murder charge. Like he wanted to...

see what was going on. Investigators found bloodstains under Gator's carpet when they went to search his home, along with a receipt for a carpet cleaner. Like, rookie mistake, keeping the receipt. But then Gator later said that his accountant told him he should hold on to all of his receipts. I mean, little discrepancy. You know what I mean? You're going to follow the rules on that one? Yeah. Well, that's the thing. Like, that's the thing of like...

Forget about thou shalt not kill. That doesn't apply to me. But I do think homosexuality is a sin, obviously. Exactly. Like, you've got to figure out what's important here. You know what I mean? It's crazy. I fucking hate it. When the police announced Gator's confession, the media went ballistic, especially in California, as you can imagine. Professional skateboarder does a 180. Nice. Yeah. Oh, on the spot you came up.

He kick-flipped into... Oh, you liked it. Okay. I was like, that was so cheesy as it was coming out. But you laughed. Yeah.

It became the lead story in every paper and on every news station. The violent anti-authority image of skateboarding combined with the details of the sexual assault and the use of handcuffs during the attack made the media absolutely fucking rabid. Skateboarders felt that the coverage was turning into an indictment of their sport, not just of Gator.

Loyal fans decorated their grunge clothing with phrases like free Mark Anthony and skateboarding is not a crime. Murder is because obviously, obviously blaming an entire sport or horror movies or video games or a music genre like heavy metal for being inherently violent or causing violence is a misguided and overly simplistic approach.

And like you say about calling people monsters, it takes the responsibility off of them. Very good. Agree completely. It's just, it's easier to scapegoat a visible subculture than to address deeper issues like mental health, societal pressures, and individual pathology. It's just easy. Yeah. And it sells papers. Yeah. There's a documentary about Gator. It's called Stoked, The Rise and Fall of Gator. And I think it was made in 2002. Yeah.

directed and written by a woman named Helen Stickler. And after meeting Gator and spending one-on-one time with him prepping for the documentary, she feels that Gator saw in religion another youth culture where he could step in and essentially become a celebrity again. Oh, yeah. In an interview with IndieWire, Stickler said the following, and this is all a quote,

I think that what Gator saw in religion was another youth culture where he could step in and be a celebrity because skateboarding was done with him. And there were new guys coming up that were stepping up and were more exciting than him. And he met a guy who convinced him of that. That's Augie Constantino. He was running a little fledgling church group. And he said to himself, look, you're Gator. You can come in here and you can be a force for good and use your name to get more kids to the word of Christ.

And I think for somebody with Gator's personality, needing that much attention, the idea of standing up in front of people and having them raise their hands in the air just appealed to him in a way that maybe he didn't fully understand himself, which is the whole idea of needing that hero worship. When he became a Christian, that kind of set up the combustion that eventually led to the crime, this push-pull between being the decadent, hard-partying skater and

And then this too idealistic role model trying to mirror himself in the image of Christ. Those two things together were not ever going to meet in the middle because he was so extreme about both of them. And that's the end of her quote. During police interrogation, Gator could not stop talking about Brandy, his girlfriend who flew out to New York to get away from him. She

She was long gone. That was his girlfriend way before. Way before. But during the police interrogation, he could not stop talking about her.

Even though she was an ex-girlfriend, she was long gone, and she crucially was not the woman that he raped, murdered, and buried in a shallow grave. When asked point blank what he had to say about the actual victim, Jessica, Gator stated, everything that I hated about Brandy, I hated about Jessica. She was of the same mold that Brandy was made of.

Yeah, that's terrible. Awful. Then he told the police that a week before murdering Jessica, he sat outside of Brandy's house, unaware that she had moved to New York, and contemplated killing her. But she never came home, and so he left. Wow. So was he projecting this murder, you know, this aggression towards Brandy on Jessica? It seems very likely, obviously. It's like the next closest thing he could get. I mean, he basically said that, right? She's a spitting image of Brandy.

Okay. I don't like when I do pop quizzes after like a tough moment, but here we are. Relating to Brandy, but not necessarily about this case, but I had to put this in here. Brandy wound up hitting the headlines once again in her life around 2005. Why? Okay. A, she allegedly birdnapped four macaws belonging to Heidi Fleiss, former high-profile sex worker madame for whom she used to work. Okay. Birdnap? Bird... Bird...

Beef. Bird nap. See. Car. No, you know what the bird reminded me of in Tillman Dumber when he's singing mock. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Bird. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, God.

Okay, B, she allegedly had a relationship with super chef Guy Fieri and then attempted to extort him after taking provocative photos. Of him? Yeah. Of the two of them. Welcome to Flavortown. Or C, she allegedly poured fake blood all over herself and designer Tom Ford at the 2005 Met Gala for dressing the editor-in-chief of Vogue in white fur.

Okay, so... If you need me to recap. Bird. Nap. Yeah. Yeah. Super Chef. Super Chef. Super Chef Bobby Flay. I know. But, okay. Not here. Fuck. Or the Met Gala. A.

Yes. Shot in the dark, obviously. Kind of. Kind of? There's something inside me that remembers hearing something about the girl from Free Falling. Oh, okay.

From the music video? Yeah. Okay. All right. Good for you. Yeah, it's unrelated to the case, but apparently Brandy used to work as an escort or a sex worker for... Heidi Fleiss. Exactly. Yeah. And in June 1993, they were busted on a vice sting. And Brandy was one of four women who were about to allegedly provide $6,000 worth of sex to four Japanese men.

And she ended up flipping and testified against Heidi for a lesser charge and then helped to bring down Heidi's entire operation. And according to Heidi, she birdnapped four giant parrots. Interesting. That's the craziest fucking sentence you maybe have ever said. It says a lot.

On April 11, 1991, Gator was charged with first-degree murder and a special circumstances enhancement for committing the murder during a rape. So under California law, these special circumstances warrant the death penalty or life imprisonment without the possibility of parole. Unable to get a lawyer, Gator was appointed a public defender, a self-described glory seeker named John Jimenez.

After taking the case, Jimenez immediately challenged the validity of the confession, claiming that Gator's minister, Augie Constantino, had no right to essentially turn him in, even though that's not how it went down. Gator turned to Augie for spiritual advice, and he exploited that powerful relationship, according to Jimenez. Jimenez also appealed the rape charge, insisting that the decomposed body could not show any signs of forcible rape.

Who cares that Gator confessed to raping her? Yeah. You can't prove it. It was absurd. Yeah. Furthermore... He really thought he did something to that lawyer, for sure. Oh, yeah.

Furthermore, Gator went on to indicate that had it not been for the vast array of S&M and bondage images he looked through at a bookstore in Oceanside, he wouldn't have been led into a sexual situation that he didn't want to have anything to do with. He wouldn't have submitted if he didn't have some weaknesses, some background desire.

Because according to Gator, those books and magazines provided a step-by-step on how to, quote, lynch somebody sexually. It's pretty sick. I got a lot of ideas. That's what he said. Good for you, bro. Cool.

And it gets worse. Although Jimenez never denied that Gator killed Jessica, he suggested to the press that it had been Jessica's fault. Disgustingly, Jimenez told a reporter that Jessica was a slut who regularly engaged in sadomasochistic sex with a long list of men, including the entire University of Arizona basketball team, along with a handful of professional players as well. Now,

Even if that were true, even if Jessica engaged in voluntary sadomasochistic sex with all and sundry... Or the whole world. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Wait, what did you say? All and sundry. It's an expression. Like, everywhere, all. Oh, okay. Yeah, it's an expression. You learned something new. I did. It still wouldn't give Gator or anyone, obviously, the right to handcuff, rape, and kill her.

And I get that defense attorneys have a tough gig, but shifting blame and vilifying the victim is absolutely unacceptable and does nothing to excuse the horrific crime committed. Like, do fucking better.

Him and his also made the following statement, which I'll explain because I had to look it up. You may understand it, Tank, but I needed to look it up. And this is what he said, quote, Hey, it's like Sam Kinison said, some girls just turn Mr. Hand into Mr. Fist.

So he was referencing a joke or a commentary attributed to Sam Kinison, a comedian who's known for his provocative and controversial humor. And the statement implies that some women provoke or transform what could be a gentle touch, Mr. Hand, into aggression or violence. Mr. Fist. Mr. Hand was the guy that banged the horse to... Mr. Hands, very good. Mr. Hands was the guy that got fucked to death by a horse? Yeah. Or the horse was Mr. Hands? Oh, okay.

I don't remember. We're going to have to go back and listen to the episode of Fuck to Death by a Horse with Mark Normand. Yeah, you can watch it on YouTube also. We have the video up. So the higher court, thank God, refused to dismiss the rape charge. And Gator wound up pleading guilty to first-degree murder and rape to avoid the death penalty or life without a chance of parole. Wait, so he tried to get the charge dismissed because some girls turned Mr. Hand into Mr. Fist? I mean, that was his defense, yeah. Holy shit, dude.

And at the January 1992 hearing in which he entered his plea, Gator submitted a four-page written statement that outlined the struggle that went on in his mind before, during, and after he committed that horrific crime. In the statement, he indicated that he'd been led to a full, true repentance, having nothing to hide. And then he said, thank God.

expressing his regret over what he'd done to Jessica and he has expressed remorse. It doesn't excuse him from the behavior or I mean, he's a, you know, shouldn't be obviously thrown behind bars, but

For what it's worth, he did express remorse. But he went on to explain the following, and I'm just going to read this quote real quick. Two months prior to the incident, I found myself in the midst of some surprisingly strange and almost uncontrollable feelings. All at once, the plague of vile visions and wicked imaginations and the daily battle to suppress them was overwhelming. It's no exaggeration to say I became completely enslaved to these devious mental images and inescapable thoughts.

Essentially, I became a victim first because I turned my back on God in several ways, thinking I could get through it on my own power. And then he went on to identify three things that influenced his state of mind. And here were the three things. These are quotes again. Quote, Firstly, sex outside of marriage, i.e. promiscuity, premarital sex, and cohabitation, the disease of jealousy, and the unhealthy obsession that so often attaches to these—

Secondly, pornography and its addictive character. Ranging from risque public advertising all the way to hardcore S&M, this dehumanizing of women and men and its dulling of the senses occurs at all levels. Porn is a consuming beast. Thirdly, closing the ears and heart to God's counsel, including partial or non-repentance and disobeying and ignoring the Bible.

So people, we must realize without reduction the gripping strength and deceptive subtlety of sin. What will it take for us to examine ourselves and listen? The tragedy of an innocent young woman's death? The fall of your favorite celebrity? Okay, perhaps the imprisonment of your best friend or relative?

I know the Lord forgave me 2,000 years ago on the cross at cavalry, and although I attempt to forgive myself daily, I haven't quite been able and may never be able to do so. End quote.

On May 6th, at Gator's sentencing hearing, he offered an apology to Jessica's family and asked them for forgiveness, seemingly really feeling it. Yeah. To that, Jessica's father, Stephen Bergsten, delivered a 20-minute visceral, heartbreaking monologue through a cracking voice stating—and I'm just reading a tiny, tiny part of it, okay—

Quote, he is a child murderer and child rapist. I don't know why he says child. Oh, because his child just came to me. I'm sorry. He is evil incarnate. Cowards die a thousand times and he will die a thousand deaths. He raped her and raped her and raped her and then thought, let's kill her.

We couldn't say goodbye to Jessica because that filth left her with nothing but a piece of skin, left her for the coyotes and the goddamn birds to eat her. And then he stared directly at Gator and he said firmly, I told you, and you remember Rogowski, what would happen if anyone hurt my daughter?

He says he's undergone a religious conversion. Judge, you must have heard that same story a hundred times. If he underwent a religious conversion, it was to evil, degradation, filth, and Satanism. End quote.

In the end, Superior Court Judge Thomas J. Whelan sentenced Mark Anthony Rogowski to 31 years to life in prison for the rape and murder of Jessica Bergsten. His sentence included 25 years for the murder and an additional six years for the rape. Once he was in lockup, Gator was finally formally diagnosed with bipolar disorder.

Now, on June 14th, 2022, so not that long ago, he was granted parole after serving 31 years. But after facing strong opposition from the San Diego County District Attorney's Office, the decision was reversed by Governor Gavin Newsom. As such, Mark Gator Anthony Rogowski remains incarcerated at the Richard J. Donovan Correctional Facility in San Diego, California, which, perhaps in an appropriate twist of fate,

is located at the bottom of a hill beneath a skate ramp where kids continue to work on a notoriously difficult move

in which the skater tries to get enough momentum and height to fly vertically out of the bowl with his body almost perpendicular to the ground, spin around once completely, and then land where he'd taken off inside the bowl, rolling backward towards the bottom. And that move, called the gate air, was named for its creator, who rots in the very prison located beneath the hill. Wow.

And that's the case, but I would like to leave off, if I may, on us remembering and honoring Jessica who had her entire life ahead of her, but somehow wound up in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong man. Jessica K. Bergston, who was affectionately called Jessie, was born on April 27th, 1969 in Tucson, Arizona to her parents, Kay and Steven.

She was described by those who knew and loved her as tough, savvy, and adventurous. Jessica was incredibly intelligent, free-spirited, and always out to have fun. Her family has been very vocal over the years on social media, and I've seen some of these posts each and every time Gator was up for parole, advocating for justice in her name and fighting for him to remain behind bars.

As indicated by Jessica's father, Stephen, the pain never goes away. This inmate received a life sentence, but he imposed a death sentence upon Jessica and our family. Yeah. And her remains were buried in a family plot in Clark County, Mississippi. And I hope it's there that she's now resting in peace. Yeah. Great case.

very good thank you you should have said in a mctwist of fate i don't know what a mctwist is it's a uh like a vert ramp move oh okay tony hawk got it cash is snoring do you do hear that right yeah yeah i like it okay i don't mind it at all um yeah yeah wild maybe my favorite case sorry oh yeah wow do you still like sometimes message with tony hawk

Yeah. Ask him. Ask him to listen in. Ask him to listen in. Oh. Sorry. I'll tell him about it. Yeah, sure. I'm really excited. Yeah. He may listen. Maybe. He's always been so supportive of me. He's such a good guy. Yeah. And in my research, obviously, Tony popped up left, right, and center. Yeah, yeah. Pun intended because like skating, whatever. And like across the board, it's like he's just such a great guy and by far the best to do it.

Oh my God. Like the court skating, street skating and... Sponsorships, the business aspect of it, the video game. You know what's crazy is he was not really that great financially until the video game. Is that right? Uh-huh. Yeah. Interesting. He was okay. He was definitely making a great living. Yeah. But the video game, I forget where...

I met him when he was in New York City. I was trying to meet him. Huge fan of Tony Hawk. Just wanted to be like, just tell me where you are. I'll come say hello. I'll drive two hours just to like shake your hand, you know? So he goes, we're actually, we're in the city tonight. A friend of ours couldn't make it. We have an extra ticket to Stomp. Do you want to come? Did you fucking see Stomp with Tony Hawk? I did. Oh my God. I know. I know. And the entire time before the show or whatever, he's like,

I mean, there was people coming up to him. There was a line. Yeah, yeah. And I looked, his kids were like a little annoyed. I felt bad for them. But they're, you know, whatever. It's so hard, yeah. Yeah. But yeah, man, he's a very, very, very nice guy. And like I said, always supportive. When my book came out, he sent me a picture of him grinding on the edge of a fucking pool reading it.

Holy shit. I was at a baseball game with Dave, actually, when Tony Hawk sent me the first picture of him wearing the Happiest New Rich shirt. Oh, actually, this I remember. Yeah. We were at a Yankees game. I don't remember. I think it was something to do with Dave's company. We had this, because the seats were right there. They didn't have an extra ticket, it sounds like. No, there was only two. It was him. He didn't invite you, not me. Okay. Okay.

I have a tanks tidbit for the ages. Let's go. No pun intended. Let's go. It's not a prescriptive tanks tidbit, okay? Okay. I had a thought the other day and it has not left my brain, okay? So everyone knows time goes faster as you get older, right? It's just some people think it's a percentage of your life and that makes it less significant and therefore feels faster and less and whatever. Mm-hmm.

Well, you're older than me, so I'm just going to take your word for it. I'm like 18 months older than you. No, you're not, but go ahead. What am I, two years older than you? Yep.

That's not 18 months. Okay, two years. Yeah, big difference. Especially when you're talking about our ages, which are 43 and 25. Thank you, sir. Well played. Yeah. But we watched Interstellar again the other day, me and my older son. And I had this thought when they were on the water planet, which is by the gargantua, the black hole. Mm-hmm.

time speeds up the closer you get to a black hole the faster time goes because of time space continuum whatever the fabric of whatever the fuck so I was thinking what if age or time starts to speed up because you're getting close to your own black hole which is physical death oh my god that's fucking good right

That's so good. Did you look into this at all? Like to see if there's actual theories about this? Because that sounds very believable and scientific. And like there's probably shit out there to support that. Like you're going towards your own personal little event horizon, which once you go over it, nobody's ever come back from it. I'm getting weird. I think we have to change the topic.

It's just a thought I had. It's very smart. It's very smart. And it's making me feel things. Okay, good. I don't feel great. Yeah, let's get away from the black hole. Let's move back if you don't mind. So that's it. If I could turn back time. If I could reach the stars. Thanks. Thank you. Share? Yeah. Yeah.

Well, thank you for doing all that work, and thank you for making the case so interesting. Oh, good. You picked a good one. You picked a very good one. I want to...

stop recording and look up Gator right now to see if in my mind it's the same logo that... Once I showed Dave the logo, everything fell into place for him. Yeah, I think I have it. I think I have it in my mind. And to those listening, go to our Instagram page because I will definitely be sharing pictures of Firefighter Dave shredding. Yeah. Like recently. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, okay. Sick. He hasn't lost a beat. No, he hasn't. He hasn't lost a step.

All right. Well, if you're still here, thank you for listening. We really appreciate you writing it out to the end with us. No pun intended, but it's pretty good. Pun very much intended. Pun very much intended. Again, thank you for doing all that work. And I'm looking forward to the next case. Until then, hang tight. Hang ten? Hang loose. Hang loose. Fuck. Yeah. Thanks for listening. We'll see you at the next episode. Bye. Bye.