EP47: Incest House of Horrors
01:08:49 Share

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Whether you love true crime or comedy, celebrity interviews or news, you call the shots on what's in your podcast queue. And guess what? Now you can call them on your auto insurance too, with the Name Your Price tool from Progressive. It works just the way it sounds. You tell Progressive how much you want to pay for car insurance, and they'll show you coverage options that fit your budget.

Get your quote today at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Save on Cox Internet when you add Cox Mobile and get fiber-powered internet at home and unbeatable 5G reliability on the go. So whether you're playing a game at home or attending one live,

You can do more without spending more. Learn how to save at Cox.com slash internet. Cox Internet is connected to the premises via coaxial cable. Cox Mobile runs on the network with unbeatable 5G reliability as measured by UCLA LLC in the U.S. to H2023. Results may vary, not an endorsement of the restrictions apply.

All right, welcome back to another episode of the Psychopedia Podcast. I am your host, Big Purple Bitch, here with my co-host... Investigators later. That's for Patreons only. Sorry, but it was the best line ever said in an episode, and I'm just gonna maybe get it tattooed on me. It was a banger. It was a fucking banger. What episode was that? Unhinged number 25. Becky. Yeah, we went over the beautiful Becky bound and burned. Terrible.

Terrible, terrible case. Terrible case. A very good Patreon episode. Great. I definitely did a really good Barney impersonation. You did? Didn't mean to. Well, that's when they come out the best. Yeah. Yeah. Which, by the way, if you love us and you feel like you're not getting enough of what you really need to be happy and fulfilled, you can head on over to patreon.com slash psychopedia pod where we do lots of fun stuff because I'm in charge and you are not. And they're called Psychopedia Unhinged because...

They are exactly what they sound like. Somebody left a comment on Patreon saying that what they love about these episodes are that our roles reverse. Yeah. So like, I'm, am I bringing the levity? Oh, you're bringing, you're making a grave. Trying to make it grave again. In Patreon? Make Psychopedia grave again. Oh God. Okay. No, I, I lead the way and I, you know, you try and keep up. Right. So I'm in control and you're not. Okay. It's fun. Head on over there.

So as you know, I just got back from Puerto Rico. Bienvenido a Nueva York. A long island. I think it would be island long. I think so. No, it wouldn't because it's beauty, age, number, goodness, size are the adjectives that come before the noun in Latin languages. So it would be before. Yo. Oh my God.

Your genius just peeks out at the weirdest times. Yeah, that's something that stuck with me from French. Fucking smart, man. Yeah, because it's bangs. B-A-N-G-S. I still don't know what that means, but you say it with conviction. I believe you. If the adjective has to do with beauty, age, number, goodness, or size. So if it's like this, whatever. Okay.

Grande, whatever. Bonita, whatever. It comes before it. Otherwise, it comes after it. Like, el carro roja. Ah, bueno. Rojo. Si. Lo siento. So, yeah, I'm different now. You mean before Puerto Rico and after Puerto Rico? Si, si, si. Wow, what happened? I only listen to Bad Bunny, E.J. Balvin, No Mas Hey Z. No Mas Hey Z. Suckaball.

I spoke so much fucking Spanish there. It was ridiculous. That's the best. I love immersing myself in a culture like that. But I'll tell you what, one of the servers was like kind of an asshole and I didn't speak Spanish to her. It was like if I was in a good mood, I would speak Spanish. Yeah. Did you know that if you, and we're going to get to the case, fucking relax. Relax your genitals. You have a different voice and personality when you speak in a different language. Yes, I believe that to be true. I love that. You can just kind of like

Reinvent yourself. And it also has to do a lot with who you learn from. So I learned from like guys from El Salvador and Honduras. So when I was speaking Spanish, I wonder if I sounded to them like somebody from Alabama sounds like to me. Possibly. I learned it from Senora in high school. You

You took Spanish? Si. Claro que si. Many years. Wow. Muchos años? Si. Oh, oh, and one more funny thing. Sometimes I would be like, hola, como estas? And they'd be like, slow down. I got myself in over my head here and I don't know what you're saying. I'm good at it, not great. I sound like I know what I'm doing. I actually don't. Can you just tell us a little bit about how your trip was? Oh,

Oh, it was fantastic. Okay, good. It was amazing. Puerto Rico, it was like everyone was happy. The weather was perfect. Excellent. It was easy. The kids were in a good mood. Awesome. Most of the time. I had the opposite trip, if you're interested. Tell me about Maryland. I went down to Maryland. Yeah. And?

And both of my children had fevers and strep throat for the entire three, four days we were there. So I was holed up in a hotel room with them. And then coming back, we took Amtrak from BWI to Penn Station, New York. It was slowed down and delayed because of police activity, which happens all the time, as you well know. And my kids look out the window and there are two kids.

Oh, my God. On the track beside us. How did they see that? They covered it with a white tarp because the police were there. But the children saw it. They saw blood. They saw. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I didn't see it. Dave saw. My kids both saw. I was working on a case. That's terrible. On the opposite side. So I missed it. But my poor babies... That's bad work on their part. I mean...

No, it is. It's not. My dad works for the railroad. My sister works for the railroad. That is not supposed to happen. Right. I figured, you know, they delayed us

By that point, like 30 minutes. So I was like, why wouldn't they just keep an extra 10 or whatever it is? Or put something that's not white that'll absorb blood. Right. Like my, like... So sad for those people, obviously, and devastated for my kids. Yeah. My father hit, it wasn't a lot of people, but it was definitely more than one. It was, I want to say like two or three. Right. And the rule, the policy is that whoever, like the engineer, the guy who drives the train...

cannot go outside and identify whether or not it's a body. That has to be the conductor. So the conductor gets traumatized with the visual. The engineer gets traumatized with the sound and the feel. Oh my goodness. They try and like split up the trauma a little bit. Speaking of trauma, and then we're going to get to the case. I have a solution for your hair in food and drink problem. Oh, do tell. Stop looking. I can't. First

First of all, close your eyes. When a giant curly hair is peeking out of my latte. Yeah, it's curly hair. Yeah, I mean, curl does give it a little personality in the drink. Otherwise, it's fishing line, you know? It's disgusting no matter what. Yeah, hair is gross. That's why I shave my head. So without further ado, let's hear about this week's horrific, traumatizing, disgusting, gross, macabre

Can you not take all of my words? Case. Harrowing. Fuck you. Case.

In the complex and often bumpy terrain of victimology, there emerges a particularly challenging scenario, and that is when a victim of abuse or trauma ends up becoming a perpetrator. This intersection of victimhood and perpetration poses profound questions about the cyclical nature of violence and the psychological underpinnings of such transformations. How do we reconcile our empathy for the suffering endured by a victim with

with the horror of the acts they go on to later commit. This conundrum delves into the depths of human psychology and explores the impact of trauma on behavior and the potential for past abuse to bend an individual's moral compass. Obviously, this doesn't happen to every single victim, but we do see it happen.

It challenges us to consider the delicate balance between accountability and understanding, raising questions about how a history of victimization should influence our perception of culpability. And this intricate situation is precisely what we must collectively confront as we delve into the extremely disturbing specifics of today's case.

Regrettably, within the confines of this shattered household that I'm going to tell you about, a sinister narrative unfolded. A tale marked by persistent physical abuse, neglect, starvation, and ultimately multiple homicides. I hate this story already. I don't like when kids get hit repeatedly. Yeah, same.

However, this case does not necessarily lend itself to easy categorization, where one individual can be solely labeled as the perpetrator. There is a definite perpetrator that we can all point to, but there's also a little bit of a gray area. The distinctions between perpetration and victimhood blur significantly as one of the unfortunate victims has found herself in a distressing web of complicity and guilt.

As we delve into the depths of this profoundly tragic case, you may find yourself grappling with a complex mix of emotions.

Feelings of horror, disgust, and anger are likely to surge, yet they will be intertwined with emotions such as empathy, confusion, and compassion. It's going to be a rollercoaster. You will be feeling things today, that much I can almost guarantee, as this case is emotionally charged and extremely complex. So brace yourself as I guide you into the twisted labyrinth known as the incest house of horrors. Oh my God, that sounds...

It is. So just keep two things in mind as we get into this case, okay? First, the investigation into this matter is currently ongoing. Really? Yes. It's such a hot off the press case. So the information that I have is based on what is available at the time of this recording. Okay. I just got interested in it. Just now? Yeah. I guess my intro didn't hook you. No, I guess not. Okay.

But that did. I guess the fact that it's contemporary is like, wow, okay. So I don't know. I have no idea. Okay. Why? As the situation evolves, details may change and new information will obviously emerge. I promise to keep everyone updated when that happens. But for now, what I'm about to present to you is what's available. And the second thing is that I'm going to bounce around slightly with respect to structure and timeline, which I know, Tank, you and your ADHD will enjoy. Okay.

I love it. And just for reference, Future, if you're listening to this in four years, it's January 2nd, 2024. Thank you for that. That's where the information is up to. And Happy New Year. Happy New Year. I didn't even talk about that. Because you know what? What? I actually was a little nervous today about doing this podcast. Because it's been a week and a half? No, no, no, no. Because...

Well, I was nervous and then I wasn't because like I get weird when people say Happy New Year to me, even if I haven't seen them past like January 7th or 8th or whatever. Yeah, that's appropriate. You can't really say it past that. People still do it. They'll go to the fucking 15th.

Look at February. I haven't seen you. Happy New Year. I haven't seen you. Yeah, no, it's not that anymore. Can I just say one funny, quick little Happy New Year story before we get into the absolute horror show that is today's case? I'm also in the depths of seasonal depression at that point, so that might have something to do with it. But yes, please tell us. I hear you. You and Dave, you guys are really not great. The same. So we were in Party City, myself and my children, and we were buying like noisemakers and hats and glasses and whatever for New Year's.

Okay, so my little guy who's seven finds a noisemaker. So he goes, he goes, Mom, I found this horny. I can't wait to blow everyone. Kids will fuck you up in public. That's terrible. I'm going to blow dad with this thing. Party's packed. Yeah, no, it's the day of. No, it's so fucking embarrassing. Kids should just.

I know why they say they should be seen and not heard sometimes. I mean, case in point. Because they say weird shit. That was pretty bad. Yeah. All right. You ready? Yeah. LFG. On September 19th, 2023, in the tranquil village of Chernitsky. September 19th, 2023. Mm-hmm. Okay. Like, real, really recent. A couple months ago. Yeah. Okay. All right. In the tranquil village of Chernitsky, Poland. Mm-hmm.

A startling police raid took place at the residence of 54-year-old Piotr Gierasek and his 20-year-old daughter, Polina. The village, which takes its name from the Polish word meaning blackberries, is typically characterized by its very peaceful and tight-knit community of around 180 residents.

Very small. Very small? 180? Yeah. Holy shit. I think there's more people that work at my family law firm than that's in that entire village. You guys should get your own zip code. But it recently became the center of an astonishing criminal case following the raid and subsequent arrests of father and daughter, Piotr and Paulina.

Police entered the Gerasik home following a tip-off from social services, who were contacted by the manager of a cake shop where Paulina worked in the neighboring village of Stara Kizawa. This woman, named Katerina Matyazak, contacted social services after encountering a number of disturbing text messages on Paulina's phone, the content of which, while not disclosed in detail in any available reports...

were described as, quote, unquote, disturbing in nature and revealing a seriously deep underlying issue in the Gerasic household. I'll tell you something real quick about seeing those texts. When you see a text that you're not supposed to see, like I've had with selling fence, so many people have my number. I remember getting a text from some guy who was like in some kind of an argument with his brother. And the things he was saying, I was like,

Jesus Christ, dude. Like, you fucking are sending... I got it, first of all. I almost... I was going to ask how you came into this. He sent it to my phone accidentally. So I said, hey, I think this is meant for someone else, but I wanted to be like, don't send that to anybody. Yeah, this is your second shot, man. It's terrible. Yeah. Yeah, and another thing that people don't realize when they send text messages, I read this somewhere, I don't remember where now, but... Or when they leave...

on social media. Yeah. Don't say you're posting. Don't say you're texting. Say you're publishing because that's what you're doing. Yeah. You're putting your words into writing and you're memorializing it. Yeah. And it's presumably there forever. Forever. You cannot take it back. No,

No, it is there forever. Maybe not in public if you delete it, but whatever company you posted it on has it. Right, exactly. Anyway, about these text messages. So it wasn't revealed in any sources at this point, but I did a little bit of digging and I believe I uncovered what the texts were specifically about, which I will reveal in maybe three minutes.

Now, the text messages in and of themselves may not have raised concern with the bakery manager had they not occurred in conjunction with a bizarre and somewhat recent change in Paulina's appearance and behavior. Pop quiz numero uno. Okie dokie. In what ways had Paulina begun to change that concerned her co-workers at the bakery? A. She began wearing her deceased mother's wedding ring and clothing. B.

B. She began dyeing her hair attention-seeking colors, pierced her right eyebrow, and shaved the left one off entirely. C. She began wearing oversized clothing and a constricting corset-like belt around her waist. Hmm. Began dyeing her hair? No. Hey, that's what I would do. What hair?

I dye my eyebrows after I shaved one off. The oversized clothes with the corset? Yes. She began wearing more oversized clothing and cinching a belt around her waist as though trying to either hide or restrain what appeared to be a growing belly. Okay. Additionally, some colleagues at the cake shop observed her discreetly placing tissues into her bra, leading them to suspect that she might be using them to absorb leaking breast milk.

However, what raised the most amount of questions and concerns was Paulina's abrupt return to work after taking a nine-day break. Because when she reappeared after those nine days, it was evident to those around her that she looked noticeably slimmer, weaker, and frequently fatigued.

This transformation suggested to her colleagues, or more accurately confirmed their suspicions, that she had been pregnant before her nine-day hiatus and was no longer pregnant upon her return. Oh, really? Yep. So naturally, curiosity led to inquiries about a potential pregnancy, delivery, and the now existence of a mystery child.

Oh, she was like super pregnant before she left? Yeah. Oh, okay. She was concealing it, but her colleagues knew what was going on. Okay, gotcha. But whenever Paulina was pointedly asked about the whereabouts of a baby, she would vehemently deny all allegations and would feign absolute astonishment at her colleagues' presumptions that she was pregnant. So deny, deny, deny.

But clearly, between her behavior and the aforementioned series of disturbing text messages discovered on Paulina's phone, something in her personal life was amiss, especially since those text messages were exchanged exclusively between Paulina and her father, Piotr, and revolved around the topic of a baby.

So that's what I uncovered about what the text messages were about. What did they say about the baby? The specifics I don't know. Oh, okay. But the disturbing nature is that it was a father and a daughter talking about a baby. Okay, I got rid of that baby. Yeah, and a baby that she now denies ever having had. Wow. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big ROAS man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend.

My friend's still laughing at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com slash results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be.

Now, to truly understand the intricate and disturbing saga that unraveled between Paula and Piotr this past September 2023, we must journey back about 15 years and walk the dark and shadowy path that led to that.

to that point. Because this retrospective exploration will unravel the sequence of horrific events that culminated in suspicions of a missing baby, as well as the revelation of a deeply troubling, heartbreaking, and illicit web of family dynamics.

Piotr Gieryszyk, together with his wife, Hanna, and their enormous brood of 12 children, eight boys and four girls, relocated from Gudenszank to the quaint village of Czernicki, Poland. All 12 of the Gieryszyk children were born at home and were delivered by Piotr himself.

So not long after the family's arrival into their new tiny little village of 180 residents, Piotr rapidly garnered a negative reputation among the local residents for being hot-tempered,

lazy, and persistently unemployed. It's a bad combination. Yeah. But aside from Piotr's reputation, the Gerasic family as a whole initially presented as quite ordinary, if not actually wholesome. They seemed to immediately embrace country life upon their arrival to that tiny village and would enjoy long walks and mushroom foraging together in nearby forests. I was just going to ask about the geography of that place. So it was like a tiny little village in the middle of nowhere. Oh, yeah. So I'm trying to picture a place that could be even

considered a place where 180 people live yeah picture like their home looked like it was made of stones do you know what i mean like it was very rustic humble did they have a lot of land did they themselves have a lot of land i mean visually it looked like they had a lot of land like in between houses let's say okay yeah it's definitely rural okay not like where i live

You live in a kind of rural area. It's Saboral. There were four deer driving here. Really? Yeah. I love when that happens.

So this home, while small and modest, had recently installed windows. The Gerasic family put windows in, which gave the outward impression of being maintained and orderly within. But as time went on, an irate Piotr could frequently be overheard yelling violently at his wife, Hannah, and their 12 children. As this explosive and rageful behavior persisted, the family members all began to show physical signs of abuse as well.

Hannah displayed bruises on her arms and legs as well as black eyes, and the children also revealed signs of physical trauma as well. Despite Piotr's attempts to portray himself as a caring father, especially on Facebook,

often sharing viral pictures of sick children to create an image of compassion, most residents of Chernitsky were not convinced by this facade. They saw through his online persona and easily recognized the disparity between his public image and his actual deplorable behavior towards his family. I think it's probably very hard to hide in a town that small. Oh, yeah, especially if there's physical...

of the abuse. Right. So if you're just like wildly beating, I mean, it's just so fucking enraging to think that this, first of all, I would love if this story ends with all 12 of them overpowering him and beating the shit out of him, but I don't think that...

is coming. But that's like my hope. I know. I know. I harbor those same hopes when I'm researching. I'm like, please give me an ending that just makes everyone triumph. But I know how the psychology works. Yes. Of individuals, even in a group. Well, I'm really glad to hear you say that because...

I think that a lot of people, we're going to go on to hear more details about the case. So these questions and answers and whatever we'll circle back to. But I definitely think that a lot of people don't fully grasp. And that's not like to shame anybody. I think it's a hard concept to grasp. I happen to understand it a little bit because I work with survivors of abuse. Yeah. But that sort of psychology of being a victim, it doesn't matter if you're bigger than your abuser. It doesn't mean it

There's more of the victims than there are of the perpetrator. That doesn't necessarily matter. It's the power dynamic, the psychology, the emotionality of it. Yeah. It's so complex.

One woman in the village named Slawomira indicated that Hana, Piotra's wife, had been too afraid to ever report Piotra to the authorities for fear that her husband would actually kill her for doing so. Hana even once confided in this woman that not only had Piotra been subjecting the entire family to physical abuse, but would also, quote, climb into their daughter's beds at night as well.

Despite this chilling revelation, Hana was just too paralyzed by fear to seek help from the authorities. Sadly, the coexistence of intimate partner violence and child abuse within the same household is a very distressing reality. Studies have shown that in families where either child maltreatment or adult domestic violence occurs,

there is a substantial overlap ranging from 30 to 60% where forms of violence coexist. With the spouse and the children. Right. Intimate partner violence coupled with child abuse. Yeah. But it's also important to note that this correlation does not automatically imply causation. It just underscores a concerning association between these two forms of violence. Yeah, of course. So then at just 38 years old,

Hana suddenly and inexplicably fell deathly ill. According to local accounts, she began wasting away, her frame growing increasingly emaciated. Her once lustrous hair fell out, her complexion turned to sickly yellow, and when she was finally admitted to the hospital, she never came out. Among the village residents, there was a prevalent belief that Piotr had, in their words, been

probably stuffed her with some pills while persistently supplying her with cheap vodka in a sinister attempt to, as they put it, get rid of her. Her illness remained baffling, progressing rapidly and, of course, tragically culminating in her untimely death. On September 18th, 2008, at a mere 38 years old, Hannah breathed her last breath. Wait, so he had that many years along with his kids? Yes.

Yes. Oh, my God. Now, certain theories suggest that Piotr may have taken his wife's life with the sickening intent of pursuing a quote-unquote relationship with one or more of his daughters. Now, before we go on, I just want to take a minute to emphasize the significance of language when discussing such matters.

Words matter. During my research, I cannot tell you how many times I uncovered articles referring to Piotr as wanting to establish a relationship with his daughters. I mean a sexual relationship. There is no room for ambiguity here. A more precise and accurate way to phrase this statement would be,

Some theorize that Piotr may have killed his wife with the intention of preying upon one or more of his daughters or abusing or sexually assaulting or raping them. But to use the word relationship is not only inaccurate, but it's also dangerous. It implies the consensual and mutual understanding between the abuser and the victim or victims. There was absolutely nothing consensual, mutual, romantic, or harmonious in this context.

It was rape. Yeah. End of. Yeah. So I just wanted to go off for a second because I was really frustrated. Go off, queen. Now, with respect to the idea that Piotr killed his wife, I do have to say that at this point in the investigation, it's speculative and not substantiated by any of the information presently available. Okay.

So while the circumstances of Hannah's death were never fully explained, the fact remains that there's no concrete evidence in the public domain to support the theory that she was murdered by Piotr. And why did it just go away? Because it was in a small village? It didn't just go away. It's presently under investigation. It's only under investigation because of what I assume happened later. Yes, that's correct.

But that said, it's certainly possible and in my personal opinion, very likely that Piotr murdered her. Sure. Yeah, of course. I mean, it's not out of the realm of possibility. No. Especially because Piotr Gierosik was a vile, despicable little shit. Yeah. And after Hannah's death, this

This vile, despicable little shit became the sole caretaker in charge of raising, or more accurately, sexually assaulting, physically abusing, starving, and or neglecting all 12 of his innocent children.

And while Hannah may not have reported any of her husband's sickening behavior towards the children when she was still alive, her presence in the home still provided the kids with love and comfort. And now, upon her death, the children were well and truly on their own. And Piotr prayed upon them, abused and terrorized every single child in that household. Some sources have even compared the Gerasic household to a concentration camp.

In addition to sexually abusing three out of four of his daughters, he also physically abused, emotionally manipulated, and neglected all of the kids while demonstrating especially callous behavior towards two children in particular, Kasia, a girl with Down syndrome, and Damien, a boy reported to have intellectual and developmental disabilities.

Damien, who didn't start speaking until he was seven years old, was deprived of educational services such as early intervention and speech therapy. He was often made to sleep outside and was treated like a stray animal rather than a human being with rights and needs. That's terrible. He'd often sleep on benches behind the village community center, unprotected and exposed to the elements.

Cassia's situation was similarly distressing, as she was regularly seen having messy, unkempt hair and wearing broken glasses that were held together by band-aids after being snapped by her father's fists. Both Cassia and Damien were only permitted to eat cold rice and groats if they were granted the privilege to eat at all. What is groats? Like an oatmeal kind of thing.

Piotr, who did not appear to have any kind of job, exploited Kasia and Damien's respective conditions in order to collect government compensation for their care, which he then used for his own sustenance. None of his children in the home, except for Paulina, were granted access to the refrigerator or allowed to eat unless Piotr decided they could. And just for context, Paulina was the youngest of the four daughters.

As a result, they were all malnourished and perpetually hungry. Oh, she was pregnant. Paulina, are you just catching on a little bit? Maybe. All right, that's okay. I'm here for you whenever you catch on. I was thinking about something else. ADHD is real.

The children all wore rags and tattered clothing while Piotr was observed donning designer labels around town and purchasing cosmetics, clothing, and good food for Paulina. There was one television in the home that none of the children but for Paulina were allowed to watch. Each time Piotr left the home, he made sure to lock the room that contained the television in order to prevent his other

other children from ever being able to watch it. That lifestyle, being one of 12, is hard anyway. Yes. Like, it's just difficult. There's not enough of anything to go around. Attention, food, space, whatever. Having someone like that at the helm... Ugh.

Yeah. Yeah, when you say it like that, right, it takes so much work. I would imagine having a family that size to keep everybody's cup filled, like metaphorically and literally. Oh, no, there's no way for it to be, apologize for bringing the gravity here in this case, but it's just 12 people is just not,

It's not possible to me. Even if it's not real, the perception of not being paid enough attention to is going to happen across the board daily. Yeah. 12 people, someone's feeling left out. You think? I mean, I don't know if I could say that that's 100% always the case with huge families. I have two kids and one of them is always feeling left out. Yeah, mine too. But I feel like they do that just to get my attention. Of course. Exactly. Yeah, they want your attention because they're not getting it. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah.

I got to try harder. You only got two. Shut up. In the horrifying, devastating reality of the Gerasic family, the abuse extended deeply and painfully as three of the four daughters were subjected to ongoing sexual abuse and rape at the vicious hands of their father.

Piotr preyed upon these poor children and exploited them whenever he felt he could benefit from doing so. He once shared a photo of Paulina when she was just 15 years old, standing in the kitchen while preparing food and looking directly at the camera, and he added the following caption, hot girl to take.

What? I mean... Where did he post that? On Facebook? According to neighbors, the photo was taken just after Paulina's older sister managed to flee the home. Oh, she did? Yeah, her older sister did. Oh, that's gotta be tough, but good for her. From at least 2018 until 2023, Paulina was coerced into a perverse pseudo-marital role with her father, a situation marked by publicly observed displays of intimacy

of intimacy around town and ultimately resulting in multiple pregnancies, all of which Paulina denied. Piotr was possessive of Paulina and forced her to share a bed with him after Hannah passed away.

He even shaved off all of Paulina's hair in an effort to prevent other boys from showing interest in her, further exerting his control over her relationships with other people and interactions and strengthening his iron grip around her entire existence. So from my experience working with survivors over the years, I've observed a pattern that I think merits discussion.

Again, in the research, articles kind of breeze past the fact that he shaved her hair. And in the context of everything going on, maybe that's not the worst that happened. But what I want to bring up is the weaponization of hair in abusive contexts. So many people may not realize how significant hair can be as a tool of control and humiliation in such situations. So in these contexts, the act of forcibly shaving a victim's hair can fulfill multiple abusive objectives.

Hair is frequently linked to personal identity and self-expression. Thus, its involuntary removal can be deeply psychologically damaging and intentionally dehumanizing. This act can serve to shame the victim, severely impacting their self-esteem and sense of self-worth, making them more malleable and compliant to abuse. Piotra's action of shaving Paulina's hair, both physically and psychologically abusive, speaks volumes. It

It was a deliberate strategy aimed at controlling, isolating, and humiliating her. So I just wanted to shed light on that for a moment. And he kept her head shaved? Or he just didn't want to? This happened recently. So in recent pictures of her, her hair is shaved. I'm not sure how long he was doing it. But for me, when I see that, I'm like...

Immediately understanding how disturbing that dynamic is. Oh, yeah. It's one thing if she wanted to do it, obviously. It's not the shaved head in and of itself. Well, it's a different kind of extreme. Yeah. Emotional, psychological. Exactly. And it's a power play.

Now, if you're anything like me when I was researching this case, you may be, by this point, feeling a mix of sadness along with white-hot rage, questioning whether anyone in a village of 180 people intervened on behalf of 12 innocent and defenseless children who were clearly being horrifically abused. By a monster. Their father, no less. Yeah.

Particularly troubling is the fact that numerous reports suggest that villagers were actually aware of the distressing indicators of cruelty and torment within the household. These signs ranged from the terrifying echoes of Piotr's angry outbursts emanating from the house—the village could literally hear him losing his shit—to the haunting sight of visible bruises adorning both the children and his late wife.

The children, malnourished and clad in tattered clothing, wandered the area unkempt and shattered, painting a grim picture of their undeniable suffering. Equally unsettling was the sight of Paulina at

at times visibly pregnant, walking hand in hand with her own father as a couple might do. Yeah, that's fucking crazy. It really is. I mean, to be honest, I forgot to tell you two such important stories about me being a hero in Puerto Rico. So, I

I have to say something. Sure. When you talked about Puerto Rico for like a minute during our intro and about like how you flexed your Spanish speaking skills. Yeah. And then you went right into your without further ado. Yeah.

I was like, that's it? I forgot. That's all you fucking have to tell us about Puerto Rico? First of all, relax. No, I was disappointed. First of all, suave. Okay? I didn't want to take up too much time, but I have to tell it now. Otherwise, I'm not going to be able to think about anything else for the rest of the episode. It's okay. Go.

I was twice a hero in Puerto Rico. Twice? Twice a hero. Twice not a hero, ma'am. Three women almost drowned right outside of our resort. Jeez. They were older. I don't know how old. One woman was definitely in her mid to late 60s, maybe 70. And there was an undertow and no lifeguard. So it was very easy to get swept out. Yeah. What I figured out, I didn't go out that far. I was like up to my waist because I knew. I could feel it pulling at my calves and my, you know, my legs. Yeah.

And you're pretty strong, so it's pulling you. Yeah, yeah. But I could just feel it. Even if it was gentle, I could feel the direction in which it was going. Diagonal, out. I'm walking back to the hotel with my bag and all my stuff and the family, and I hear somebody yell, help, like violently yell, help. Like somebody was, I thought somebody got bit by a shark or something. Oh my God. People.

People are running. There's panic. There's hectic vibes going on. But I was still far away. I couldn't see what was going on. Then I see three women out getting crashed on by waves over and over again. And they didn't know what to do. So luckily, some guy grabbed a lifeguard ring and went out and started to help them, right? There was the lifeguard. There was no lifeguard. Oh. There was none.

So I also, it's just like, sometimes you feel like you're going to help. Sometimes you're not. So for all the people who stood around and watched no judgment, I've done it also. Cause I think someone else is helping. So I saw this one guy, I was like, he's not going to be able to do it. So I started to go out into the water and because the water is like, the sand is like uneven under the water. As I was running, I kept falling and splashing into the,

It happened like three times. Any other time, I would have just given up and walked back. So it wasn't this like Baywatch, like awesome heroic scene. It was like if SNL did Baywatch. So I'm crashing and splashing in the water, but I finally get out and then I'm up to like my shoulders.

And I can feel the toe. And I'm like, I'm about to be fucked. Sure. That's terrifying. Then a wave comes. My feet... As soon as your feet come off the ground, you're getting pulled. So now I'm getting pulled out. And I'm like, I don't want to make this guy have to save someone else. So I navigate my way back like 7, 10 feet. And then kind of just kept an eye on it and watched. He was able to get them out. And he didn't need my help. I also may have caused more of a problem. But... And then like...

The women saw me and they were like, thank you so much. The family was like, thank you so much. And I did the most annoying thing in the world. Oh, man. Yeah. Can you give me a pop quiz? I want to see if I can guess it. Pop quiz. Did I say, I'm not a hero, ma'am. Did I say, no problem, you're welcome. Oh, eesh. Or, it's even worse somehow, right? Yeah. Or did I say, see, I don't really feel like I did that much, but thank you. B.

No, C. C? C. So why was that annoying? I deflected completely. But all due respect, I'm so proud of you for running out there. Yeah. But it sounds like you didn't do anything. I didn't, but I was there in case that guy couldn't get that out. Oh, I think your response was very humble. I don't think it's annoying. Yeah, it's not a hero, ma'am. Yeah. Not a hero. But, like, I wasn't a hero. Yeah.

I wasn't really the hero, but I was there as backup for the hero in case the hero needed another hero. But you were falling left, right, and center. Only in the beginning. Then I got out. But I was definitely perceived as a hero, but I was not. And then the next fucking day, we get out. We're going to this castle on the water in Puerto Rico. Find a parking spot, by the way. Miracle. Pull in. I mean, the door went ka-ching, and I heard...

And this woman, older, like this time, older, older, like 75, 80, fell and fucking just, I mean, she was destroyed. Oh my goodness. She wasn't bloody, but like she, I was trying to speak to her in Spanish and she, uh,

I either, I thought she didn't want to talk to me or I wasn't saying the right thing. Right. But I knew I was saying the right thing. So I just figured maybe she was in too much pain to answer. Oh. You know, so we stayed, stayed with her. A guy walked by. I said, he goes, like fucking, of course I speak Spanish. And I was like, which means,

She has bad. I mean, point taken. It was a bloody woman on the ground. No, she wasn't bloody. But she was on the ground. She's on the ground moaning. Yeah. So we wound up calling her an ambulance and waiting for her. And then some guy pulled up on a motorcycle. And I was like, what the fuck are you going to do with that motorcycle guy? Then he checked her out, looked at her, and then he called a real ambulance because she had like broken her arm or something. Oh my goodness. Such a, like, frail. My kids were like, how did she break her arm? I'm like, she's...

old and probably frail. You know, she was like sad. She was like... She was probably in shock too. So when you were trying to help her, it wasn't even maybe registering that you were there. I'm fucking hallucinating. Some white guy speaking perfect Spanish. This can't be real. Totally buff guy. Well, good for you for not once but twice putting yourself out there to help people. They love to hear it. Yeah.

So it raises the question, your stories, as well as the fact that there are 180 people in this village who presumably have an idea that shit's going down in the Gerasik house, right? It raises a serious question about community responsibility and the mechanisms of support in cases of familial abuse.

So I looked into it. Polish law obliges certain professions and institutions to report suspicions of child abuse or neglect. Pop quiz tank in the form of a true or false question. Shaking it up a little bit. True or false. The general public has a legal obligation in Poland to report known or suspected crimes against children.

False. No. True. But this was only a very recent doing. That was also a trick question because you told me that certain professions have a legal obligation, but then you said... The general public. The general public. Yeah, it's not a trick question. They're not...

It was fucking sneaky. I'm sorry you felt tricked. I did. I'm so very dumb. Angela, you're not very dumb. You're very smart. I'm not a hero. Okay. Maybe that's true now that I know your two failed attempts. Hey! I gave you credit. One and a half. It was two, but I give you credit, full credit for that. How were they failed attempts? You didn't do anything. I waited with the woman for 20 minutes while an ambulance came. Okay.

No, I feel like a heroic act would have been like... Picking her up and... If you prevented her from actually falling. We didn't see her fall. I understand. But you didn't have the chance to be a full-blown hero. You had the chance to be a very good guy, though, waiting for her. This is not going to go anywhere. I'm fucking furious now. Oh, no. Just kidding.

In July of 2022, Poland's Supreme Court ruled that a person can be held criminally liable for failing to report cases of child sexual abuse, even if they occurred before July 2017, which is when the law making it obligatory to inform the authorities of such crimes came into effect. This means that bystanders or individuals who are aware of a crime against a child but do not report it can be subject to legal penalties under Polish law.

Additionally, those who fall into specific professional categories like teachers, doctors, social workers are absolutely mandated to report such cases. And a failure to do that can have legal consequences for people in those professions. Also, can I just take a quick little thing to talk about a law in Poland? Sure. In July 2023. So again, this is recent, which is why I like to...

Bring it up. Polish MPs almost unanimously approved measures to strengthen the protection of children against violence by proposing a new bill called Camille's Law following the recent and tragic death of an eight-year-old boy named Camille at the hands of his stepfather who beat the shit out of him. God fucking piece of shit. Camille's Law has been supported by every group in Parliament apart from the far-right confederation who

Oh, so those fucking politicians suck also. That I agree with.

I'm just kidding. I was going to die. That's fucking horrible. That Polish leader, by the way, his name is Janusz Korwin-Mikke. Yeah, fuck Janusz. Another group, the Libertarians, which is a small party that broke away from the Confederation earlier this year, also opposed Kamil's law. But Kamil's law has now been passed on to the Senate where there are no members of the far right. So it will almost definitely get approved. And then it'll move to the president who can either sign it or veto it.

I'd like to think it will be signed. How a bill becomes a law. Right. So now it turns out that Piotr did indeed face an allegation of incest 12 years ago. And then another two allegations about two or three years after that, when neighbors contacted social services. So they were saying something. So they were saying something. Yeah. But it makes you wonder how the fuck it went on for so long.

So according to a spokeswoman for the district prosecution's office of Gdansk, which is in Poland, a woman named Grena Voronyaka, all three of those investigations were discontinued due to a lack of evidence and no charges were ever brought against Piotra. Did,

Did they even look at the case? Which I find astounding because the children had physical marks on them. Now, I do know that the daughters were denying that sexual abuse was taking place. Well, he had a fucking real strong grip on them. Shocking that victims of abuse, children no less, are going to deny it. The fact that that is used as a reason for there not being enough evidence to pursue the investigations is just astounding to me. Yeah.

Now, I will say that prosecutors are looking back at those initial allegations to try to determine whether the correct decisions were made at the time or if more could have been done, meaning at the time if there really was a lack of evidence or if whatever evidence was there was overlooked, which to me, that sounds more likely.

While I wouldn't presume to cast doubts on the previous investigations without knowing all the details, it does seem like a rather glaring oversight occurred. At least. Right, because even at a cursory glance at the family dynamics, the physical state, the malnourished children, Paulina holding hands with her father while being pregnant, and as a minor, should have raised enough red flags to prompt a more rigorous investigation. Yeah. But alas, that did not happen.

According to Joanna Michalowski, head of the Social Welfare Center in Stara Kizawa, Poland, social services... You could say Stara Kizawa, but you couldn't say Michalowski? Man. I actually have a neighbor who's of Polish descent, and I called him to help me with some of the pronunciations. Did he help? He did, but obviously not enough. Yeah.

Social services operate within specific legal parameters. They're not authorized to forcibly enter homes without a proper basis. Any intervention must be predicated on a specific report rather than just vague sort of... Mentions. Exactly.

And this is something to just really keep in mind as we go on to explore what's coming up, which is sort of the crux of the case. And it's what happened recently in September 2023. Because as indicated at the top of the episode, it was in September 2023 when the manager at the cake shop where Paulina was employed stumbled upon alarming text messages on Paulina's phone and social services were alerted. Subsequently, the police visited the Gerasic residence and

And it was during this investigation when law enforcement encountered a repugnant odor emanating from the basement, a finding that would unravel the true depths of depravity that existed within that house of horrors. I'm going to have to issue a trigger warning here because what I'm about to say is more than upsetting. It's incomprehensible. Yeah, I can kind of tell what's coming, but...

Navigating a damp corridor crudely built with cement and deteriorating bricks, inspectors made their way into the bleak and foul-smelling basement of the household. In this underground nightmare space, they uncovered the remains of two human babies, each sealed in a plastic bag and buried in a shallow grave within the soft earth beneath the house.

Nearby, a third baby was also discovered having been left out to decompose. Investigation revealed that the two babies in the bags were the offspring of Paulina and Piotra, while the third baby is suspected to have belonged to another of Piotra's daughters, whom he raped and impregnated. According to prosecutors, there is no doubt that the children were murdered.

Paulina's daughter is said to have lived for several days, possibly up to three weeks before she was killed. All of the infants have been sent for autopsies to try to determine the exact causes of death.

horrifyingly, some fear that there could be even more dead infants hidden somewhere, born from another daughter who was also raped by the father. Because according to a source cited by Polish local media and reported to be close to the family, one of Piotra's daughters is said to have given birth to twins around 2020. However, since their birth, there have been no sightings of these babies.

The same source also revealed that Piotr allegedly took this daughter to a town approximately 100 miles away for the birth of the babies, where he reportedly reassured social workers that all was well. However, with hindsight and current understanding, there remains serious concern about what became of those children. Yeah, of course. This is so beyond tragic. Oh, my God. In the wake of these horrendous and heartbreaking findings...

Piotr Gierasek has been charged with three counts of murder, one charge of incest with his 20-year-old daughter Paulina, and one charge of having incestuous relations with another daughter, presumably the mother of the third infant that was discovered in the basement. And Paulina Gierasek has been charged with two counts of murder and one charge of having an incestuous relationship with her father.

According to prosecutors, Piotra and Paulina had a quote-unquote consensual relationship. According to who? The prosecutors. Fucking stupid. Now, this is where it gets tricky. Although, it's not really tricky to me, but the issue itself is tricky. Yeah. You may recall that in my introduction, which did not hook you...

I was hooked. I didn't get up. I touched on the intricate and morally complex field of victimology. It's particularly challenging when a victim of abuse or trauma becomes a perpetrator themselves, especially of similar acts. While in this specific case, the cycle of incest wasn't perpetuated, there is presumed involvement in other heinous acts, such as infanticide.

The scenario underscores the nuanced and often difficult intersection of victimhood and perpetration. In the context of Paulina's case, there's a concept that suggests that her actions, particularly the disturbing behaviors and potential crimes she's accused of committing, or at least knew about, is a result of the abuse and environment that she experienced growing up. Yeah, when you did that intro, which totally hooked me,

I thought you were going to tell us about what Piotr did and then tell us about what happened to him. Oh, no. I would have loved for that to have been the case more than this. Even knowing whatever happened with him wouldn't have helped my judgment of him. Like, I would think, okay, yeah, this guy deserves to be under the jail. But the girl? Right. So I'm going to give you a pop quiz as we go on to explore this, okay? Okay.

Okay. What is the name of this concept? So the concept of a victim perpetrating what he or she experienced as a victim. Okay. A, copycat syndrome. B, modeling behavior. C, imitation effect. Modeling behavior. Yes. Did you know that? Mm-hmm. Very good. A lot of therapy. Oh, true. Okay.

Modeling behavior for those who have not undergone extensive therapy is a psychological concept. It refers to the process where individuals learn and replicate behaviors by observing others, especially influential figures in their lives, such as parents or caregivers. Yeah, it's not even optional. Exactly. Yeah.

This concept is a key aspect of social learning theory, which posits that much of human learning occurs in a social context. And to your point, it's not optional. Maybe not optional is not the right word, but it's not like up for debate.

Children who witness or are victims of abuse in their formative years can internalize these behaviors as normal or acceptable responses to stress or conflict. And this can lead to a cycle where they replicate similar abusive behaviors in their own lives, as they may not have learned healthier ways of coping or relating to others. And they may not obviously fully understand that it's wrong. No, they think it's normal. Right. That's what they grew up in.

Additionally, while I am not a mental health professional, I also speculate that Paulina might have experienced Stockholm Syndrome, which is a condition where hostages or abuse victims form a bond with their captor or abuser.

If this is true, then labeling Paulina's interaction with Piotr as a consensual relationship like the prosecutors are trying to do here, it's not just inaccurate, it dangerously veers into victim blaming and ignores the complex psychological factors at play. Why are the prosecutors saying that it was consensual? Isn't it in their best interest to say it was not? No, because they want to go after Paulina. Oh, okay. They've charged her as well. I mean...

That's fucking crazy. This is where it gets tricky. There's definitely a camp of people who feel that she gave birth at least twice and either had a hand in or knew about the murders of those babies. Yeah.

Oh, man. Yeah. I mean, could she be found totally without guilt or without responsibility? That's definitely up for debate. But like putting her as a central figure in the case does not make any sense. Charging her with murder. Yeah. Right.

Because knowing what she went through, how do we reconcile our empathy for the suffering that she endured with the atrocities that she later committed or at least had involvement of slash knowledge of? I guess it's like a short-term version of thinking, you know, Piotr would not be responsible because of what he went through when he was younger. So it's just more, his is a more drawn-out long-term version, but I don't know. I mean, we don't know what he went through, obviously. I don't know.

I don't have his backstory. I can guarantee you it wasn't good. Exactly. I'm sure I can make up a backstory and probably be pretty accurate. Yeah. And obviously, as more comes out, I definitely want to come back to this case and revisit, you know, some of these bigger issues. Yeah. So it's important to approach the psychological state of incest victims with sensitivity and understanding. Therapy and support are crucial for helping victims process their experiences and develop a healthier perspective on their relationships and experiences.

Another issue that may warrant addressing because I know people are thinking about it and it's a touchy topic, but I really believe it's on a lot of people's minds. So I will try and delicately approach it. It's the topic of abortion and why Paulina did not opt to have her pregnancies terminated, but rather gave birth to at least two children who were then murdered either with or without her direct involvement. Either way, she certainly knew that these children were born

Yeah, of course. Yes.

a victim of incest likely faces a significant amount of emotional barriers on top of that. Yeah. So for some, the shame and stigma associated both with incest and abortion in many societies can exacerbate feelings of isolation and confusion. And then these victims may also struggle with guilt and internal conflict.

As the decision to have an abortion might feel like a betrayal of family ties, despite the abusive nature of the relationship. Yeah, it's fucking twisted and complicated. And the other thing is, is that abortion laws in Poland are among the most restrictive in all of Europe.

Abortion laws only allow abortion in the following circumstances, risk to the mother's life, fetal abnormalities, or pregnancy resulting from a criminal act. Now, incest qualifies as a pregnancy resulting from a criminal act. However, these cases require a formal report to the authorities and can be subject to various legal and procedural hurdles. So it's not enough for a woman to just say that the pregnancy was a result of an incestuous assault.

There has to be a formal report to the authorities. And anybody who's not comfortable with that type of report being made is not going to be eligible to have a termination of the pregnancy. So it's a very sensitive area that I fully respect, but I wanted to raise it because I think it applies, the question. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

At the time of the arrests, all but Paulina and Damian had left the home. The eldest daughter is reported to now have a husband and children, as I previously mentioned, and has cut all ties with the family.

The family's two cats, an elderly dog, a St. Bernard named Beethoven, who was seen barely able to walk after Piotr and Paulina's arrest, is now being looked after by an animal charity. It's believed that Beethoven had also been deliberately starved and spent his entire life chained up, as when he was rescued, he only weighed about 61 pounds.

And for perspective, a male St. Bernard typically weighs between 140 and 180 pounds. Prosecutors have received authorization to detain Paulina and Piotra for three months pending further investigation. This inquiry could potentially result in both Paulina and Piotra serving life in prison if they're convicted.

And let's say that Paulina is determined to have suffered from Stockholm Syndrome, which I raised. While Stockholm Syndrome can be a factor in criminal cases and may be presented as evidence in court to help explain a victim's behavior during captivity, it is not a legal defense in the sense that it absolves someone of criminal responsibility for their actions. Yeah, but what does it do? It can maybe lessen the sentence or the charge. Yeah.

The mayor of their village, Marian Pick, has indicated that the community will be taking care of the funerals for the babies that were found and provide proper burials, which will likely happen in a nearby parish. Kasia and Damian, who I mentioned specifically in this case, presently reside at a shelter called Osada Borego Mesia, which is located in Pomorskie, Poland, and is run by a priest named

When they first arrived at the care center, they were given bread, which they grabbed by the handful because both of them were starving. According to this priest, Damien, who is now 24 years old, is said to have a big, beautiful heart in spite of what he went through. Despite having experienced severe starvation himself, he consistently ensures that the dogs at the shelter are fed before attending to his own needs. And

And this seemingly modest act of kindness speaks volumes about his selflessness and capacity for love, even after enduring such hardship. It symbolizes to me, hope, light, and the journey towards healing in the midst of adversity. He also probably felt terrible growing up with a dog that wasn't being fed. Yeah, but either way, he's paying it forward now. And that is how I'm choosing to conclude today's case, with a message steeped in hope and optimism a little bit, because...

It is my earnest wish for all survivors of abuse to rise from their hardships, hold on to hope, seek support, thrive, prosper, and persevere. And again, this is an ongoing investigation. So what I presented today is what we know until this point. But the fact that this true incest house of horrors exists or existed in modern times is...

Absolutely astounding. Yeah, there's a lot that was astounding about this case. Yeah. 12 kids. Yeah. All of them being abused in one way or another. Some worse than others. Infinitesimal fucking village that they lived in. Yeah, I know you like that one. I loved it. The fact that his wife was likely murdered. Yeah. Because he wanted to abuse the kids. Right. And 180 people all in one area all know each other, all know each other's business.

The fact that nobody said anything is also...

Par for the course as far as humans go and also shocking and terrible. Yeah, there were a few investigations over the years, so they did speak up. Did they speak up enough is the question, you know? There's this weird thing where it's like you don't want to get involved in other people's business, especially if you don't have absolute proof. Like, my kids have bruises all over their legs. If somebody ever said that I was abusing them, it would be like, I'm not, but... I got a phone call from my kid's camp this summer because...

Because of that. Really? Yeah. So my two boys wrestle like WWE style, like flying off the top of the couch, smashing shit into each other constantly and constantly yelling at them to calm down. But they have the markings of what they do to each other. Yeah. So when my little guy or was my bigger son went into the changing room before swim, his counselors saw his bruised little body and I got a phone call. Yeah.

Which kind of makes me feel happy. Not that you got the phone call. No, no. I was thrilled. Yeah. I was thrilled. Luckily, the owner of the camp is my neighbor. And he's like, I happen to see your kids beating the shit out of each other constantly. So, like, I'm okay. But, yeah. I thought it was actually really great to get that call. Yeah. It's not true. But I'm glad you said something. Yeah. Yeah. That's how I would feel, too. Absolutely. All right. Well, I'm damaged. Are you? No.

Yeah, a little bit, right? You don't think so? A lot of it. Medium bit because I'm trying not to let it take over my brain. It will. It's going to sink in with you. I hope not. And then, you know, I'm going to just update you as more comes in. I'm going to pretend this never happened. This case is really only beginning. And then maybe we'll do a part two or build a whole podcast around it.

A series? It's just House of Horrors. I mean, listen, maybe I should go to Poland and investigate like boots on the ground. Shit, yeah. Send me. Not in the winter, but... Send me whenever.

But thanks for all the work you did and all the research and all the writing and the beautiful prose and storytelling that you put together. Thank you. I didn't feel like it jumped around at all, but I have a learning disability. Maybe I didn't. Maybe I just presented... It was in perfect order for me. The text messages that came, which brought the investigation to light or brought the issues to light. And then I went back in time to, you know, that it started when the kids were little. Yeah, you just pulled a little Tarantino. A little bit.

And then we went straight forward from there. But fucking, I was thinking about a lot of stuff listening to this case. Yeah. Not great. I know. I know. It's devastating. It's devastating. All those children having been abused to the level that they were abused and of course the

infants that were murdered. Yeah. I mean, he needs to be. Oh, he needs to go away. He just needs 100% life in prison at best. Yeah. Yeah, I know. There's a lot going on here. A lot. I'm a little not okay right now. Okay. It's hitting me. We'll wrap it up. Gracias por escucharnos otros. And we'll see you guys in the next episode. Thanks, everyone. Bye. Adios.

That was also a pop, uh, uh, uh, that was also a trick question. Uh, trick pop. Uh, pop trick. I don't understand a fucking word you're saying right now.