EP26: Instagram Execution
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All right, welcome back to another episode of the Psychopedia Podcast. I am your co-host, Hank Sinatra, here with my partner in crime. Investigators later. Yeah, I remember that. You sure did. Proud of you. That's the new vernacular we're using. Co-host is out. Listen, if I'm talking to somebody and they're like, hey, who do you do the podcast with? I'm not going to be like, well, my partner in crime is... But publicly facing partner in crime. I love it. On the outside...

All right. My co-host is Investigator Slater or Investigator Slayer. Wow.

Saw that a couple of times. A couple of times. Loved it. And somebody also said, it's a big miss when Tank doesn't refer to you as Investislater. Investislater is, I have, I grew up with a speech impediment. You didn't? Really? Yes, I did. You had a lisp. Oh yeah. And I couldn't say L's either. Oh my goodness. I didn't know that. Now I podcast for a living. So how about that, Bobby? Fuck yeah, comeback boy. Making fun of my fucking wisp.

Oh, cutie. How about the word lisp has L's and S's in it? What the fuck is that? Cruel. Yeah. A sadist came up with that. Yeah. What can't they say? L's and S's? Hold on. Yeah. L-I-S-P. Makes total sense. Why not? Fuck with the poor kids. I hate kids.

It's tough, but lots of speech therapists out there making beautiful strides. Oh, yeah. My aunt. I went to speech therapist for years and then my aunt fixed it one day at Thanksgiving. Get out of here. She was like, you have what's called a tongue thrust where I just can't, you know, my tongue was out of control. How'd she fix that? She made me practice doing this. Until it worked itself out? Yeah, yeah. Wow, that's pretty amazing. It took like five minutes with her. Incredible. Shout out to Aunt Mary Jane.

My son had a tongue tie when he was born. Yeah. The bottom of the tongue was like too attached to the bottom of his mouth. Yeah. And they had to clip it. Ooh. Yeah, my baby. Poor guy. Mm-hmm.

As always, rate, review, subscribe, share with a friend. This is a good podcast to make friends with. We are a family. I feel like if you go, if you're talking to somebody at like a Barnes and Noble or work or supermarket or whatever, and you go, do you like true crime? Do you like listen to true crime? No, no, no. Okay. Yeah. No big deal. But if they say yes. Ooh, baby. Boy, do you got a podcast for them? I hope so, guys. It's called Psychopedia.com.

And it's hosted by a guy who makes memes for a living and a real deal investigator by the name of Investigator Slater, who brings the heat each episode. The gravity and you bring the levity. You bring the gravity. I bring the levity. I just want to get kicked off on a little bit of a positive note because these reviews, they fucking, they're tattooed on my heart. This one especially though, I don't know if you know which one I'm going to read. I do not. Had to update my rating to five stars. Oh, yes. Thank you to whoever did that.

Well, it was Mock's Flare. That's a big win. So it says, Yay. So we grew on them. Investigator Slayer not only does amazing research, writes well, and her voice and tones are so refreshing. And yes, Tank Sinatra does sound like a chipmunk. Ha ha. So...

Pretty good. Crash landing. I already know that. They're not telling me anything I don't know, but I love the fact when we started this, I said to you, I want five-star reviews and one-star reviews. I want people to love us or to think we're the worst thing that ever happened. Three stars, like,

I could take it or leave it. That's not what we're after. We're trying to create some feeling. And if I'm annoying to you, I'm actually pretty good with it. No, Tank. No. No, not you. I know. I don't agree with that. I don't like that. I 100%, I don't know how to convince you of that. Just because you don't feel that way doesn't mean that I don't feel that way. True. Making people feel something...

is creativity and all. Okay, that's true. End of story. So if people love it, great. If they hate it, at least they still felt something. Why would you want to create sentiments of hate and unhappiness? I'd rather not create at all. No, I don't want them to hate me, but if they think I'm annoying, I'm fine with that because usually if somebody hates something...

At some point, if we keep at this, they come around and they go, I was in a bad mood that day. I think I didn't give them a good chance. So you're giving people the chance to explore their feelings, go on a journey, grow, maybe change their minds. As long as their feelings. Got it. If they're nothing, then there's nothing, no reason to come back. Nothing to come back to. Right. Okay.

So that's my story. I'm sticking to it. And as always, if you are not getting enough of what you need from the regular episodes, we do have a Patreon, patreon.com slash psychopedia pod, where we do an episode called Psychopedia Unhinged. It's exactly what it sounds like. Tank off the rails. Yeah. It's, you know, you try to keep me on a tight leash during episodes.

You're like me walking cash and he sees a squirrel. That's what I feel like you. All I'm doing is reigning in beasts. Yeah, that's your... All I do. That's your place on this earth. I'm good. I do need to be reigned in sometimes. No, listen, I've said it before. I just love true crime. I love putting these cases together. I get immersed in the story and the psychology and the law. I

I'm in it with the listeners as much as I am delivering it. And so when you come in sometimes and I'm not ready, I apologize. I just have to keep things moving. Yeah, no, you're good. Actually, as you say that, I do kind of understand why somebody would be annoyed by an interjection, but...

I'm never annoyed, Tank. I'm really not. No, no. I'm not annoyed. I really am not. It's just I am very focused. So I just, I bring it back in. Yeah. I'll try and keep my contributions A+. Don't. Be you. Be you. Yeah, that's what I'm going to do. Okay, yeah. A plus guy. Great. So without further ado, without further shabizness, without further bodybuilding. Yeah. Why don't we get into this nasty, nasty case? Okay. Okay.

Visualize with me for a moment the following scenario. It's a sunny August morning and you have a little time to kill, so you do probably what nine out of ten people do. You take out your phone to immerse yourself in the endless scroll of Instagram. It's habitual for most of us in today's world, whether we'd like to admit it or not.

As you traverse through updates from friends, family, and acquaintances and partake in the routine acts of liking, loving, following, or sharing, a live stream video begins from one of your favorite fitness influencers. Good timing, you think to yourself. I've got time to kill. You patiently wait for him to start talking, which you know will happen any minute because you've tuned into his live streaming videos before and they've always been fire.

Usually he provides a fitness tip or shows you an attraction in his local community. But regardless of what he's showing you, it's always entertaining and captivating. So you're there for it. So you watch and you wait for the good shit to start.

But suddenly, this somewhat familiar person on your screen suddenly presents a strange yet undeniable and almost tangible shift in energy that permeates the air, exuding a very off-putting vibe that you definitely pick up on but struggle to actually comprehend. Yeah. Why does today's live stream feel so different, you wonder? Why hasn't this familiar fitness guru begun flashing his shredded glossy six-pack?

Why is he just sitting there on his couch? What is he waiting for? What looks and feels so different about today's video? What's happening? Yeah. Then, suddenly, the answers become horrifyingly clear. Because this mega social influencer with hundreds of thousands of followers is now holding a gun.

And with the gun in his hand, he stares into the camera with the direst of intentions, crystallizing in that single chilling moment. He directs his attention towards a woman who has now come onto the screen beside him suddenly. He then aims the weapon at her forehead and pulls the trigger. Live? Yeah.

On Instagram Live? Today, we are covering the absolutely devastating crime perpetrated by a Bosnian social media sensation named Nerman Suliamanovic, who just last week solidified his position in the sick realm of live streaming murderers. Oh my God, what a fucking state of mind you have to be in to do something like that. Yes, which we will, of course, explore.

So he's Bosnian. Does he live in Bosnia? Yes. Is that a place still? It is actually. It's technically called Bosnia and Herzegovina. Herzegovina. Yeah. For the purpose of just ease, because I get tongue tied, we're just going to refer to it as Bosnia, but I would like everyone to recognize the real name. Nerman Sulimanovic? Yeah. Very good. From Bosnia, Herzegovina. Very good. That's all folks. So he was a 35 year old bodybuilder, fitness coach, and social influencer born and raised in a town called Krakow.

Gradykac, situated in the northeastern part of Bosnia, roughly 25 miles south of the Sava River. You know me. I like to give people a little geography lesson. Yeah, I'm lost, but go off. Having spent most of his life within the boundaries of this 40,000-person town, Nerman had a modest beginning and maintained strong ties to his community throughout most of his life, having never really left.

But like most people living in modern times, Nerman made the choice to extend his social network beyond just his physical location and thus joined Instagram in 2018. By June 2019, his online presence began to gather momentum, attracting a booming audience that began to open doors for him to collaborate with local photographers and businesses.

These collaborations then contributed to the consistent rise in his followers and engagement, which continued to steadily escalate his audience and engagement day by day, such as the algorithm. In December 2019, he shared a post regarding a winter festival held in Sarajevo that gained viral traction, resulting in a rapid influx of 10,000 new followers in just one week.

Subsequently, Nerman delved into IGTV, sharing extended content focused on travel and local culture, further broadening his audience. By June 2021, his Instagram following had remarkably accumulated 500,000 followers,

officially bestowing upon him the sexy title of macro influencer. How do you spell his first name? N-E-R. Oh, N-E-R. M-I-N. M-I-N. Okay, I'm trying to look him up while you're talking. Nerman Suleymanovic? Mm-hmm. There's a J in there. It's just pronounced Y, but it's actually a J in the middle. Jesus. But listen, while you do that, I'm going to give you your first pop quiz. Okay, cool. Which macro influencer has about 10 million followers on Instagram alone?

A, Tai Lopez. B, Liver King. C, Tank Sinatra. I know this one, Liver King.

What up, macro influencer? Oh, I'm mega macro. Yeah. Yeah, between Tanks and Atra, Tanks Good News, and Influencers in the Wild, which I do promote this podcast on, and people do like it most of the time. Actually, if you're here, you already know that you like it. But you get some feedback. Yeah, I've gotten some feedback. Listen, I get it. It doesn't really make sense on Tanks Good News, but tell that to the thousands of people clicking on the link. I mean, it's interesting stuff. Yeah. It's interesting.

Nerman was truly regarded as an emerging luminary of the digital age, consistently captivating and expanding his audience through his unique content and unmistakable online identity. He leveraged his background in visual arts to transform his Instagram feed into an outlet for his artistic creativity, further cementing his position as a respected presence among digital influencers.

His rise in the realm of social media underscored his creative originality and assertive demeanor, leading him to rub elbows with celebrities and to boast and post accordingly. Boast and post. That's pretty good. Did you make that up? I did. Thank you so much. I was pretty proud of that one.

Even though he had a travel and culture element to his persona, Nerman was predominantly recognized as a bodybuilder, which was an aspect of his persona that he frequently showcased by sharing scantily clad and veiny photos. Oh, did he have an OnlyFans? Maybe. I didn't think to check. Yeah, I'll check. I'll subscribe. Okay, you're going to want to reconsider that. Nerman regularly posted content featuring workout sessions, training tips, and satisfied client testimonials. You can picture the kind. Yeah. But...

Despite saturating his feed with shirtless selfies and thirsty images emphasizing his impressive physique, there just would never be enough Instagram filters in the world to soften the rough edges of Nerman's less than flattering past. Oh, boy. Because as it turns out, beneath the tan, muscular surface of a beloved macro-influencer seems to have existed a not-so-picture-perfect, deeply troubled individual.

And this is the problem with social media. Yeah. Just a little, you know. Yes, it is. We're going to do the rest of the episode ASMR style. Let's try this. Ready? Yeah. I can't. I'm too excited. Nerman is purported to have encountered several run-ins with the law and maintained ties to a notorious Bosnian drug cartel operating out of the northern city of Tuzla. He faced several arrests linked to heroin and marijuana trafficking, fighting, and a confrontation with a police officer.

My research uncovers a man whose life teetered on the edge between the public-facing limelight and the criminal underworld. Yeah. This dichotomous existence wherein he was both a committed fitness coach and influencer on one hand, and an alleged criminal on the other, just further complicates the task of uncovering the true essence of his character, which is still a mystery. Which, not to overgeneralize, but when I think of Bosnia-Herzegovina, I

I think of a really tough place to grow up. Yes. And to live and to make it, which would you think, okay, great. He made it. He has a half a million followers on Instagram. He's making money that way. He's doing that. But you still have that in you. You still have that war-torn environment all around you. So for him not to be able to break free of that so quickly doesn't surprise me. Because like I said, Bosnia-Herzegovina is like, from what I remember, that's why I asked if it still existed. I just remember that name being in the news a lot.

as the central hub of a lot of shit going down. When I think of Bosnia-Herzegovina, I think of like Serbia, Croatia. Yes, that is accurate. And some of the cultural implications of those surrounding areas continue to seep into what is Bosnia-Herzegovina. I can't. Leave it. I'm going to leave that. Right? It continues to seep into the culture. Bosnia-Herzegovina. Godspeed, Tony. Yeah.

But among the most distressing of all of Nerman's transgressions and varied personality traits, and ultimately the one that proved to be most catastrophic and heart-wrenching, was his inexcusably violent and aggressive behavior towards his ex-wife, Nizama Hechimovich.

Yeah. Beyond impressed with these. I don't even know if you're saying it right, but you're saying it confidently and that works for me. I practice because I don't think it's respectful to mispronounce people's names and cities. And I try my best. I do struggle with it, obviously. So we have Nerman Sulyamatovic. And what's the other person's name? Nizama Hechimovich. Or it could be Hechimovich. Hechimovich. Okay, cool. Good.

Nizama, a 38-year-old mother of two, had been living in a perpetual state of fear and panic due to Nerman's dangerous presence in her life, which of course culminated in her highly publicized and deeply tragic death. In fact, a mere four days before her murder, Nizama had filed a police report of domestic violence against Nerman, though she was too frightened to provide testimony, which is a reaction that is not uncommon, entirely understandable given the circumstances.

Nevertheless, despite her entirely justified fear and trepidation, Nizama still took action in seeking a restraining order due to her genuine concern for her safety and the safety of their nine-month-old daughter. Yeah, there's, listen, he's a two-strike person. So you have a bodybuilder type with an influencer type. I'm not a psychiatrist, so I'm not going to diagnose him, but from my own personal experience and what I know,

narcissism pervades both of those categories, bodybuilding especially. The reason that I don't bodybuild and do shows is because I almost lost my mind looking at myself in the mirror. It was like too much me, too much of me. I don't want that much me in my life. Do you mean the amount of time you had to focus on yourself or do you mean critiquing yourself constantly? No, just the amount of time that I had to think about myself was overwhelming.

I think about myself enough as it is, as a human being who struggles with, you know, narcissistic streaks or traits or whatever. I'm not like a narcissist, but it's impossible to not be when you, and then to make your living on it. Like you can't fuck around at all. Yeah, that's tough. That's very tough. So he was probably a nightmare to be around.

Allegedly, yes, very much so. I can totally see that. Right. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big ROAS man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend.

My friend's still laughing me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com slash results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. So she filed a petition to have a restraining order against Nerman.

But astonishingly, crushingly, the judge declined to approve her request for a restraining order, which we're going to get into in a little bit. But for now, Nizama was compelled to take matters into her own hands and went to great lengths to safeguard herself and her little girl by going into hiding for over one week prior to the harrowing event of her brutal death. Yeah, terrible. And while in hiding, Nizama posted a tender snapshot of her daughter's tiny little foot peeking out of the crib,

And in the caption, she wrote, a baby will make love stronger, days shorter, nights longer, money less, home happier, clothes more shabby, the past forgotten, and a future worth living for.

Little did she know that this would ultimately turn out to be her most poignant and final social media post. Yeah. I hope that judge feels like a fucking asshole. You will hear more about that. Because shortly after that post went live, on Friday morning, August 11th, 2023, the unthinkable happened, which I touched upon in the intro. Wait, when? This just happened, August 11th, 2023. Oh my God.

But now I'm going to tell you exactly how it happened and who else was hurt or worse. So please listen with caution. Trigger warning. Yes. On that fateful morning, Norman began recording his first live stream video on Instagram.

The opening scene, if you will, unveiled a calm and composed Nerman sitting in a state of ease within a well-lit room. Hang on one second. He did his first Instagram Live that day, you said? Not ever, but that morning, this was the first live stream. But was he like known for going live? Was that his thing? Oh, yeah. Yeah, sure. Yep. He did fitness videos, fitness tips. He was a figure in his community, so he would go to like a local fair and live stream from it. Yeah, yeah.

The walls around him were adorned with framed artwork indicating he was likely sitting in his living room listening to what sounded like subtle instrumental music playing in the background. On vinyl? You wish. Not everyone is as cool as you. True.

This eerily tranquil setting and soothing ambience presented a striking juxtaposition to the imminent chaos, adding an almost cinematic quality to this otherwise unfiltered and visceral video. Within the first five minutes of this particular live stream, over 10,000 viewers had already tuned in. Wow. And the comments section started to fill with expressions of enthusiasm and greetings from his audience.

Then, about 20 minutes into the live stream, there was a palpable shift in energy. The music stopped and a distant shouting could be intermittently heard, causing Nerman to look distracted and uneasy. Comments from concerned viewers started pouring in as well, with many asking, is everything okay, Nerman? And what's that noise?

Ten minutes after that, the lights temporarily flickered. And ten minutes after that, you can hear yelling followed by what appears to be an off-screen struggle and then an abrupt end to that live stream.

At this point, viewers had grown uneasy and worried and figured something happened to Nerman. So this comment section starts flooding with messages expressing concern and panic, and many indicated that they contacted law enforcement over this concern.

hashtags such as pray for Nerman and hashtag what happened to Nerman started gaining traction on Twitter. And a handful of people, as I said, went so far as to call the authorities. I mean, yeah, you're on Instagram live. You see something off and then you hear a violent struggle. Yes, they took action. Yeah. At some point after that, Nerman restarted the live stream or a new live stream.

And what followed next was a shockingly violent sequence of horrific events.

Nazima, who at first seemed blissfully unaware that her life was about to be brutally cut short, appeared on the screen. And as she came to grasp the dire situation, her whole demeanor shifted to one of fear and desperation as she began to cry and plead for mercy. To the Instagram Live? So one moment she's sitting there next to him, looking like totally unaware of what's happening. And then you see her shift suddenly to panic and she starts begging and crying.

and crying. To who? To Nerman. To him. Okay. I thought, I didn't know if she was appealing to the crowd that was watching or to him. But her cries fell upon deaf ears as in one swift motion, Nerman revealed a firearm while uttering the following words. I warned everyone that it would come to this. She has been hiding my child for eight days. Look, when you're dealing with a whore who reports you to the police, and then there's a pause, and then he says, here,

Watch the murder live now, nice and easy. Are you watching? Oh, God. He then pointed the gun at Nizam's forehead and squeezed the trigger. The shocking display of unrestrained violence was presented in its raw and brutal form, serving as a terrifying intrusion of real-world brutality into the digital realm. Yeah, why? Did, I mean... We're going to explore that.

Then the camera panned over and captured which of the following images? Pop quiz. It's been a while. I'm like, where are all the pop quizzes? For real? Yeah. We did one. But that was a fake one. Okay. Pop quiz. The camera pans over and sees... A, drug paraphernalia like vials and syringes. Uh-huh. B, pepper spray rolling on the ground. Okay. C, Nizama and Nerman's nine-month-old baby. Oh, God. Okay.

The baby? Yeah. This hit me so hard because second only to the horror of the homicide itself were the haunting echoes of their nine-month-old daughter's cries and anguished screams as she was a tragic witness to this gut-wrenching scene mere steps away from her. Yeah. And she, an innocent bystander, was forced to witness the entirety of this devastating event. This was her mother.

Then, as the camera turned to face the little girl crying on the floor, sitting in her mother's blood... Why would he face the fucking camera then? Nerman said, Here, someone come and save the child. Moving on. He said moving on? Yep.

What a fucking piece of shit. Nerman then took to the streets of Graticac and filmed two subsequent videos of himself on the run informing viewers that he had killed two other people off screen. What? Later identified as a father and his son named Zenzig and Dennis Onder while wounding Harissa Onder.

the decedent's wife slash mother, as well as wounding a police officer named Hussein Katorik. Okay, so he killed the wife's brother and father. No, I'm sorry if that was confusing. He killed his ex-wife. Yes, he killed his ex-wife. Then he went on a murderous rampage and shot two random bystanders who were father and son. Okay. As well as that father and son's matriarch. Oh, that, okay, that father and son's matriarch. Right. Okay.

There's also reports that Nerman found his common-law wife at the time, another woman with whom he had a different child, beat her and killed her as well. What? He likely would have continued killing, but for the heroic act of a salesman employed at a store named Rybalovac, when confronted by Nerman, who brandished his firearm while demanding additional ammunition from the salesman at the store, what did this heroic salesman do?

Pop quiz. Pop quiz. Wow, now you're really piling them on. A, he locked Nerman inside the store, biding time and enabling surrounding police to clear the area of remaining pedestrians. Okay. B, he provided Nerman with blank ammo. C, he clubbed Nerman's kneecap, making it impossible for him to chase down additional victims. He locked him in the store. No. No.

That's what I would have done. Well, you weren't there. Thank God. He gave him blank ammo? Yes. Smart as fuck. How smart, how heroic for this man to think on his feet like that and to not worry about the implications on himself. Think about it, right? You see this literal maniacal murderer demanding ammunition. First of all, you have the quick thinking.

To give him blank ammo and then you have the balls to do it. Yeah. I mean, give this guy a medal. Well, I would, I mean, if you have blank ammo and it's on the top of your mind and your adrenaline doesn't push all logical thought out of your brain, which is part of the problem when in situations like that. Yeah. Giving him blank ammo is the best option. He can't kill anybody. Correct. It's obviously a brilliant move. I'm just giving him a lot of credit for coming up with it on the spot with a literal gun to his head. Yeah. Yeah.

By this point, Instagram intervened and temporarily disabled Norman's account to prevent any further content from being broadcasted. We should have got Zuck on this podcast. Is that a possibility? Yeah. So what are you not doing that for? I didn't know it was so Instagram heavy. Oh, yeah. It's okay. I'm cool with just us partners in crime. Yeah.

And while this may have stopped the public from being able to view Nerman's next step, you know, Instagram cutting his ability to live stream, it did not stop him from taking that next step. Okay. Because Nerman was not done killing. Only this time, he turned the gun on himself. I say this all the time. If you feel the urge to kill, right?

Just, I don't, I listen, I don't want people to kill themselves, but why go kill four or five people before you actually turn the gun on yourself? Just turn it on yourself. I think you're trying to place logic into somebody who's incapable in that moment, if at all. Well, he's a jacked bald guy, so I'm trying to put myself in his shoes. Can I tell you something to that, to that note?

When I was talking about this case with Dave, he's like, listen, you're going to have to like take care of Tank a little bit because Tank already identifies or worries about identifying with perpetrators in these cases. Now you're presenting him with a bald, jacked social influencer, like go easy on him. Yeah, he posted a lot of memes and he was just a little crazy. A little unhinged. And he snapped.

Are we going to get into what actually happened? Yes, we are. Obviously. Yes, we are. Okay. Cause I, I assume I actually knew, obviously we were doing something bodybuilding related. I didn't know it was so Instagram heavy, but,

But on one of the episodes, I don't remember if it was Patreon or a public episode, we talked, you were on prednisone. And I was like, that is like roid rate. But there's another drug, which I don't know if you're going to go into what it was on. Tren. Did that come up in your research? Tren was designed for cows to beef cows up so that they could get big fast and then become meat. Okay. In like a quarter of the time. Tren is so wildly powerful and anabolic that

People take it, but it makes you an absolute raving lunatic. Raving lunatic. Yeah. So I wouldn't be surprised if he, and he's, I mean, the guy looks like he's on a ton of shit also. Yes. So when you mix anabolics with stimulants, like it's just, you're asking for trouble. Yeah. We're going to get into a little bit more of some possibilities leading up to

this horrific crime, but I will just give you a little spoiler. Yeah. The why behind this is still unclear. But my point is that he wasn't on test and smoking weed. Okay. He was on a bunch of different anabolic compounds and probably, you know, it takes a toll on your body, which may, it takes a toll on your mind. Your body becomes so toxic. Blood brain barrier is one thing, but you know, drugs maybe break the, I don't know how it works. I'm not a

Smart guy. You are a smart guy. But I'm not that smart. But anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if he was on a ton of stuff on both sides of the spectrum. Right, nor would I. Yeah. This absolutely tragic and horrific incident dubbed Gratidac Ubistavo, which translates to mean Gratidac murder, sent seismic shockwaves through this otherwise peaceful and predictable little town. As news of Nerman's vile behavior on Instagram spread, a collective sense of disbelief and horror engulfed not just the residents of the town, but the entire town.

Yeah.

Yeah. Because as I said, the why still remains largely unclear. Sure, yeah. Yes, Nerman was angry that his ex-wife filed a domestic violence report against him. Yes, he was angry that Nizama took their daughter into hiding for eight days to protect themselves against someone who Nizama knew would be capable of executing exactly what he ended up doing. While specifics relating to Nerman's upbringing remain unclear at this point,

many sources point the finger at Gratigak's criminal belly and feel that it influenced his behavior, whether it be potential gang ties or his affiliation with drug trafficking. Many speculate that Nerman's inner turmoil might have been closely linked to some of the darker corners of the community. Interestingly, we touched upon steroid use. I have yet to come across a source that offers substantial insight into the potential role of

Yeah.

Yeah, simply put, yeah. Very simply put. I'm not a doctor, clearly. So this is just off the research. Yeah, obviously. There's that word again. The mechanism of these effects remains speculative, but preliminary data suggests a possible role for brain regions involved in emotional reactivity, such as the amalgam, am I saying that right? Amygdala. Thank you.

and regions involved in cognitive control, including the frontal cortex. Yeah. Now, my understanding is that most anabolic steroid users display few behavioral effects, though of course some can and certainly do develop severe side effects. Is that accurate in your knowledge of this industry, this fitness world, that most people on steroids don't suffer from roid rage? Is that accurate? A hundred percent. Okay. It's just that the outliers are likely so extreme.

And those people are angry anyway. They're angry anyway. Testosterone tends to make you a tiny bit more of what you are. So if you're a confident person, you'll just be a little bit more confident. If you're a shy person, you'll be a little bit more confident. It doesn't make you more shy. It doesn't work like that. But...

There's certain compounds out there like Masteron, Trenbolone. Those are the only ones where I've ever seen. Masteron is a DHT derivative, which is like a whole other, it's not a testosterone-based anabolic. It's just, it's a different thing. I don't even know how to explain it because I don't understand it that well. I just know from anecdotal experience that Tren, most smart people who don't want to wind up in jail,

stay away from Tren. And it's not a joke. It's not like, oh yeah, I saw an after school special once where Ben Affleck was on Tren and he fucking broke his bookcase over his mom's head. Because I think there's a movie with Ben Affleck. That was very specific. Yeah, there's like an after school special with Ben Affleck where he has roid rage. I might be making that up, but...

That does not happen from testosterone. That happens from the hardcore compounds. And I would even say the one hardcore compound, which is Tren. Typically, anabolic steroids don't change people's personality at all. Interesting. Okay.

This is another interesting point. So this was indicated by Norman Foss, who's the director of the bioethics program at the University of Wisconsin in Madison. And he said the following, no question anabolic steroids at certain dosages can increase aggressiveness in a minuscule number of people. But there is no evidence that steroids make you use a gun on someone. That's 100% true. And I also should have qualified what I was saying because I think everyone takes a normal amount of testosterone. Yeah.

There is a difference between taking a 200 milligram dose of testosterone for like replacement therapy and taking 1200 milligrams a week. And what is replacement therapy? Like you have a testosterone deficiency? As you get older, your testosterone just gets lower and lower and lower. And it's like, we've had enough. We, us men have had enough of being emasculated by our biology.

So, yeah, like having low testosterone changes things for the worse. People suffer from depression, lethargic,

just like, and then it just kind of makes you feel a little, again, not, oh my God, like I'm fucking a new guy, just like a little bit better, a little bit more pep in your step, but not noticeable. And it takes such a long time for it to happen. It's not like drinking a cup of coffee and you get a caffeine rush. It's like, you have to take it. The blood levels have to even out because it spikes when you first take it, but you don't, it doesn't absorb into the system. But testosterone is not the culprit. Otherwise, everything's,

every 21-year-old man would be a murderer. Because they have high testosterone levels. Yeah. Naturally, typically. Exactly. Got it. Needless to say, law enforcement agencies... Which, just, sorry, just to interject. That's okay, I'm here for it. I'm actually thinking right now about the fact, because like when there's a mass murder, a shooting, it typically is a young male. Let's just qualify it even more, a young white male. Right. So I wonder if testosterone does play into that. Interesting. I don't know.

Would you be so kind as to look into that? Sure. Cool. I won't find anything, but I'll look. See what you find. I'll Google it. Yeah. I'm staying on the first page. That's it. That's some investigative work there, buddy.

So needless to say, law enforcement agencies have initiated a thorough investigation into the incident to establish a clear understanding of the motives behind Nerman's attack and what exactly happened before, during, and after the triple homicide and attempted murders of three additional people. God. And this all happened on one day? Yes. One morning. Fucking spree. Yes. Yes. Yes.

The investigation aims not only to provide closure to the affected families, but also to prevent similar incidents from happening in the future to the extent that that's possible. Bosnia's authorities also intend to investigate several police officers, as well as Judge Leila Numanovic, who failed to issue a restraining order, as I mentioned, against Nerman after Nizamah filed a report of domestic abuse.

Now, after the murders, the president of the municipal court there indicated that the police failed to relay all of the evidence involved in Nizamah's request for a restraining order, which then prompted the judge to refuse the request. So the courts basically indicate that this isn't the judge's fault. The judge worked with the information provided. It was the police's deficiency in not providing the explanation.

extent of how dangerous the situation was. Whatever the reason is, I'm sure he feels terrible. Well, this judge is now on sick leave and the president of the court indicates that the judge was essentially quote unquote lynched by the media. Yeah. So this judge is definitely keeping a low profile right now. Listen, I don't, when somebody does something like that and something bad happens, I'm

I don't typically wish for it because he wasn't directly related. He made a horrific mistake. Yes, a big, big mistake. So to be lynched by the media, this guy's probably doing a number on himself as it is.

Sure. You would think? Oh, definitely. I mean, he's on sick leave. Apparently this judge is a wreck. But that said, I don't disagree. I don't think that we as a society and as a judicial system grow if we don't highlight when errors are made. I'm not saying drag him through the mud. I'm not saying take away his professional license. I'm not sure if I'm not saying that either, to be honest. I haven't really given it too much thought. The extent of how much he should be punished...

On the other hand, though, I think that this is the only way that things can be fixed and changed. Maybe there's going to be a policy now that says...

Anytime a restraining order is requested, maybe a second opinion is granted if the first judge denies it. I believe way more in him losing his ability to practice or losing his license than being publicly shamed. I just don't believe public shame is the stupidest fucking route of consequence because most of the time people are up in arms. They don't even know what they're upset about.

Most of the time. In this case, this is a different case, but the court of public opinion is the least trustworthy judicial system, so to speak, in my opinion. Because again, most people have no idea what the actual circumstances are. But you're saying that it wasn't the judge, the police. I'm not saying that. That's what the court is maintaining. But let's just say that that's maybe true.

which most people probably don't know, and I didn't know at the beginning of this case. Let's say this judge gets a restraining order and there's like no reason for him to approve it because the police didn't provide him with the information. He's really not at fault. Unless, and I don't know the job requirements of a judge, unless it was the judge's responsibility to dig deeper. Yeah. I don't know.

And I'm not looking to point the finger where it doesn't belong. I just think he must feel awful on his own. I'm sure of it. I'm sure of it. But I'm just, I sort of went on this little tangent just addressing when you said, like, I don't think that there should be too much attention on the judge or like this hyped up media component, which of course I fucking hate the media. So I agree with that. I pressed pause and you said off the record that you think he should be publicly hung. What the fuck are you talking about? I don't know if you remember that. Run the tape back. Okay.

Just kidding. Just kidding, everybody. Obviously. Jesus. Oh, I hate that word so much. It's the worst word in the dictionary. It's the best word. It's so belittling to the person you say it to. Obviously. Obviously, Tink. I love it. Obviously, I'm saying obviously. It could be funny, too. So there is, of course, tremendous public pressure in Bosnia, rightfully so, over the brutal femicide of Nizama. Femicide, for those who may not know, or maybe, Tink, maybe you don't know, I don't know,

is broadly defined as the intentional harming or killing of women and girls because they are female, with definitions varying, of course, based on cultural context. In the last seven years, a total of 60 women have tragically lost their lives due to violence in Bosnia, including eight cases reported in 2022 alone. The actual number might be even greater due to the absence of official statistics concerning femicide in Bosnia.

Just two days prior to this recording, thousands of Bosnians took to the streets to demand authorities act to curb violence against women.

In Sarajevo, the capital city, a massive gathering of individuals marched through the city center to advocate for increased safeguards for women, the regulation of violent media content, and enhanced oversight of police involvement in cases of violence. Yeah. Protesters held banners that conveyed messages like, silence is approval, and we won't live in fear, or stop femicide.

Protesters in Sarajevo held up a huge banner that also said Sarajevo against violence, which echoes a slogan of a month's long street protests going on in Serbia. Women should be allowed to carry guns. Every woman should just be allowed to carry a pistol. A little tiny pistol, like a little feminine pistol, like a little purse pistol, like a little Barbie pistol. Purse pistol.

Does it have to be pink too? It should be, yeah. Okay. Just so it's not threatening. You know what I mean? It should be threatening if it needs to be wielded. I just don't. These fucking weak bitch ass men who attack women. What are you on, dude? What is wrong with you? It's inexcusable.

It just, it's such a, like, I know why they must do it to feel strong. I guess. I don't know. I have a big thing with feeling strong with my kids because I don't like when I see the bigger one using his size against the little one, whether it's in a comment that he knows he can't retort to or it's physical. I say, why would you do something like that? Did it make you feel strong? Cause like you could push him around. Like it's not that impressive. He's half your size. Just so you know, like, I don't think it's impressive. Right. Right. I,

I just, I fucking, the whole feel, like, just be strong. Just be strong. Or don't be strong. But don't hurt people. If you are strong, I mean, mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually, you don't have to prove to anybody that you're strong. Right. Especially yourself by taking it out on some woman who can't defend herself. Yeah. I mean, I agree with that. Unless she pulled a gun on you and shot it and missed, and now you're in a gunfight with her, but that's not what happened. We know it. Right. And he fucking live streamed it.

Oh, I mean, this case is worse than any fictional show. For what? I just, I'm so fascinated. There's been a couple of live stream killings. I know. On TikTok, there was a video of someone who killed themselves.

who the video went obviously mega viral because all the algorithm knows is that you watched it and you shared it. That's all it knows. It keeps feeding the machine. It keeps feeding it into the For You page so as many people see it as possible. And then once people see it, they save it and then they re-upload it. That was a big problem. That video, that particular one singular video was a problem on TikTok for like a week. Yeah. I remember scrolling through and being like,

If I see anything even remotely off, I'm scrolling away. I don't care what's in it. I don't care if the fucking secret to life is in it. I actually have here in front of me some headlines that I found online. I think I have about five here that highlight some of the live streaming incidents of violence that have occurred. Just, I can read it. I'm not going into those cases, but just to highlight how extreme this has become. Yeah.

The first one is infant girl killed on Facebook live before her father turns gun on himself.

What the fuck? Disturbing Facebook live video shows torture of man with special needs. I've seen that one. Yeah. Armed suspect shoots at police on Facebook live. Yep. Seen that one. Teen shot and killed by friend while streaming live on Instagram. School girl aged 15 gang raped by six men on Facebook live. Oh my God. So welcome to fucking modern times.

Besides it being horrific, it's so stupid. It's just brutal. It's just so absolutely heinous. Yeah. People find ways to be shitty with new technology. It's just part of what it is. Well, you say it all the time. People are people. People are people now. In modern times, people were people back in the olden times doing whatever the comparable was back then. Yeah, yeah.

So contrary to popular belief, femicide does not only affect low-income countries. And that is a very common belief, right? That's not prevalent. I wouldn't think that. And I'm going to quiz you. So hold that thought. Okay. Pop quiz. Of all femicide cases... Watch me eat shit live on a pop quiz. Of all femicide cases in what are considered to be high-income countries, what percentage occur in the U.S.?

A, 35%. Uh-huh. B, 50%. Uh-huh. C, 70%. D, 85%. Oh, those all suck. Yeah. I thought you were going to go lower. Well, I didn't. 35, 50, 75, 80? 85, yeah. I mean, fucking you pick. I have no idea. 70% of all femicide cases in what are considered to be high-income countries occur in the U.S. Well, that's why I didn't think it was a low-income problem because I know it's a huge problem in America. Well, good for you, Mr. Worldly. Yeah.

So to put that into perspective, on a global scale, the U.S. ranks 34th for intentional female homicides at a rate of 2.6 killings per 100,000 women. Yeah, that's a lot. That is devastating. In total, getting back to the case, 12,000 people watched the live slaying of Nizamah.

Following this absolutely heartbreaking murder, numerous online forums, blogs, and discussion threads blew up with deliberations concerning the roles and obligations of social media platforms.

Many are contemplating the ethical foundations of these platforms and are exploring the potential for enhancing real-time monitoring and devising strategies to avert the future broadcast of such heinous and tragic incidents. What could they have done, though? Well, new artificial intelligence technology could provide text mining or image mining or video mining in which machine learning algorithms try to automatically detect any insensitive words or behaviors in digital content.

So it's software that filters and sorts content that like could reduce the amount of human work required, therefore eliminating human delay in responding.

Yeah, I just feel like that's, I mean, if people are going to do this, they're going to do it. If lives were on a, let's say a 10 second delay and AI is incorporated, you're still going to have stuff slip through the cracks. You are. And this is just one way in which people obviously are acting out their deplorable behaviors. But this I found interesting. So this professor of criminology at Birmingham City University, his name is David Wilson. He

He indicates that the only thing that's new about the phenomenon of Norman killing in an attention-seeking manner, like in live streaming, is the fact that it's live streamed. So, in other words, he maintains that it's always been common for violent criminals and killers to seek fame and recognition for their actions. Oh, yeah. In the past, Wilson explains, these figures have left calling cards behind or would even go so far as to tip off the press themselves. Yeah, they want credit. Now these

simply have to press record to taunt the public and memorialize their place in the spotlight. So the human nature element has always been there, but the technology just provides another platform. Yeah. It's wild to think that a, you would be so callous and cold blooded that you'd want to kill somebody.

But then on the other side of the token, you'd be so attention-seeking that you're like, people got to see this. Like, why do people have to see it? Right. I mean, maybe that's part of the torturous element. Like, I'm going to hurt many people. You're going to hurt as many people as possible. By doing this. I'm going to kill three people. Yeah. But I'm really going on a much further...

farther reaching spree by affecting the 12,000 who tuned in. I'm going to tell you something so scary right now. Are you ready? She just rolled her eyes hard. I actually have a frame of reference for this.

And it's not good. I'm leaving. And then you can just speak into the ether. Okay, good. I'll see you later. When I was working at Prime, I think I may have told you this story already. When I was working at Prime, it was a very, very hot, busy, place to be seen type of restaurant in Huntington, for those of you who don't know. Huntington, Long Island, on the water, whatever. I was so miserable at one point in my life that I thought to myself,

I'm going to come in here on a Friday or Saturday night, packed, packed house. I'm going to go in the bathroom and I'm going to shoot myself in the head. Tank. So that way I will have a huge effect on a lot of people. Yes, it'll be negative, but it'll be an effect. It's something they'll never forget. Right. Thankfully sanity prevailed. And I was like, yeah, I could, I guess have a horrific impact, which I don't want. I didn't want to have a horrific impact. I just wanted to have an impact at all.

I said I could have an impact on, let's say there's 500 people in the restaurant at any given time. They tell 10 people that's 5,000 people, but then that's it. Then my life is over and I don't get a chance to have any more impact on anybody. Or I could little by slowly have a positive impact on as many people as possible over the course of my life.

And that was when the decision was made that I was not going to kill myself. Well, thank God for that. I'm so sorry to hear this story. Don't like hearing that at all. I'm just wondering when you had that like a thought, was your thinking that you weren't being seen and you wanted to impact people or

And how did that correlate with ending your life versus say, I'm going to take this glass of water and spill it on. Did not even occur. You know what I mean? Like, why so extreme? Because it's so extreme. It's so extreme. It's something they'll never forget. They'll tell people about it until they die. But it's a bad thing.

Impact is impact. Like a child who's not getting enough attention at home, they'll break something to get attention. Even though it's negative, they just want to make sure their parents... That's puppy training 101 right there. Yeah. If he steals your sneaker, ignore him. Yeah. Because even you chasing him to get it and putting him in his crate or whatever you're going to do, which I don't support. Exactly. He's getting from you what he really wants, which is your attention. Yeah. So I guess that was it. I mean, I was young. I was like 25. Yeah.

Were you sober? Yeah. Brain may have not been fully formed yet. Maybe. I don't know. And then it formed at that moment. Right. Exactly. Well, you know what? You grew from that. You were the phoenix. Yeah. You rose from the ashes.

This case has also brought into question the notion of bystander responsibility as well. Because following this incident, it came to light that some people, call them devout followers of Nerman, may have encouraged or endorsed his actions during the live stream. Oh.

Calls for legal consequences for these twisted assholes are spreading far and wide, with many voicing even larger concerns relating to the perceived desensitization of digital onlookers in general. This case not only raises questions about the accountability and liability of social media platforms, but also spotlights the collective role that users and viewers assume by participating.

In the aftermath, many maintain hope that this tragic event may lead to reforms in online content regulation, heightened awareness about mental health, and a broader societal contemplation on the interplay between technology, violence, and individual accountability. Unbelievable sentence you just wrote right there. Thank you, sir. On August 14th, 2023, Nizama was buried in Gratikak around 4 p.m.,

and a crowd of several thousand people accompanied the coffin in a heart-wrenching procession to a nearby mosque, where they performed the funeral prayer and then buried her in the local cemetery.

August 14th was officially declared a day of mourning and all flags in the area of Tuzla Canton were positioned at half mast. I watched a little bit of the funeral. It was really, really something. I guess, I don't know if this is a tradition in her culture or in that area, but so as I mentioned, there were thousands of people. They passed her coffin through the entire crowd.

What do you mean? By hand? Yeah. So picture like, I guess, pallbearers. Yeah. That's what it's called. The people who carry the coffin. Yeah. So picture like they're just moving the coffin through the crowd and all the people in the crowd are carrying the coffin. Almost like a crowd surfer. Yeah. It was really, really, really heart-wrenching though. Yeah. It was such a tribute, you know. Nizamah's sister also used social media to pay tribute to the loss of

In a heartfelt Facebook post, she conveyed her disbelief and love for her departed sister, leaving a poignant message of affection by saying, My beautiful darling, I still can't believe that this could happen. Your sister loves you the most. And that is crushing. That is crushing. I am very close with my twin sister and I broke up. I read that line. Your sister loves you the most. Yeah. This is just such an absolutely tragic story.

unjust, unfair, brutal crime against somebody who sought help, wanted to protect her child. The child witnessed...

I'm so dumb. I keep wanting to ask, where's Nerman? Is he in jail? He's dead. This is kind of your thing at the end of a case. I keep thinking about it. Like, why don't they ask him why he did it? Like, well... Right, and it's tricky because I did maybe throw you off when I said that the investigation is still open because that sort of implies that there's a perpetrator. No, I'm just dumb. No, you're not dumb. I'm okay with being dumb. I don't...

Okay. Okay. Thank you for allowing me the freedom to be dumb. You're very smart and I enjoy speaking with you. Yeah, listen. But wait, for the record, I would enjoy speaking with you if you were dumb too. Thank you. Listen, we don't claim this guy, us jacked meathead bald guys. We don't claim this fucking asshole. He was an outlier for sure. Did they do a toxicology on him? No, well, they may have. I haven't found it or it hasn't been released yet. It just happened.

This just, it is so hot off the press that it was all I could do to find... Anything. Exactly, because the digging, as far as I was able to dig, is what I presented. Yeah. This is as much that I'm aware of to date that exists. But as I always maintain with these sort of fresh cases, like with the Shabiznas case...

You know, as more comes to light or the social influencer case that we followed that was still pending. Yeah. As things come to light, if there's anything to update everybody on, you know, I'll be happy to do that. We'll post about it on psychopedia pod on Instagram. Right. Or,

Or on, you know, email us or whatever. Right. So this was a little bit of a different case. It wasn't, you know, going into the depths of a depraved serial killer with years and years and years of red flags and psychology to break down. But just as tragic and just as worthy of being told. But fascinating to me that he chose to listen. People kill people every day. It's just I don't I don't like it, but it is what it is.

What fascinates me and still continues to fascinate me, and I'm sure it will stick with me after the case, is the fact that he chose to live stream it. Because all I could think about when you were talking about him live streaming it was that video of the people who tortured the guy with special needs. Right. On fucking Facebook Live. I mean, I don't know if it's...

they're proud of it if they think they're doing something funny if they want the impact that you mentioned earlier yeah i mean listen people are sick and i was sick at that point just because i was sober doesn't mean i was crushing it uh i wasn't doing great i just wanted to have some kind of an impact and i couldn't figure out how so negative impact good yeah i'll take it i'll take a negative impact

I feel like this is something more, I don't know, because he killed himself after killing three people. That's correct. He was surrounded by police at that point. I don't know if it was a game time decision, if you will. Yeah. Or if that was part of his plan all along. I don't know. Maybe he had a psychotic break of some sort. I don't know. How old was he again? 38, 36? 35. 35.

It's a good time for a psychotic break, I guess. 35. It's as good a time as any, I guess. I mean. He just had a kid. Maybe he was real. I don't know. I'm not trying to, I'm just, I'm not trying to excuse him. No, certainly not. Why somebody would do something like this. Well, you and I tend to enjoy doing that on this podcast, which I love. I really love getting into the depths of psychology and there's not very much at our disposal right now in the way of research, but I assure everybody that I will stay on top of it. Again,

Again, to restate it, the area he grew up in, Bosnia-Herzegovina, is a tough area. I remember seeing this movie Kingdom, which we talked about on a previous podcast, but we only talked about one aspect of it, where they set them up and then bombed a... The Jamie Foxx film? Yeah, yeah. There's another... Because I've been in some areas. Long Island is, you know, it's mixed. Sure, it has some rough and tough spots. Different demographics, different socioeconomic pockets here or whatever. Yeah.

And I've been in some bad areas in my days, you know, just been around. And there's a scene in Kingdom where they're driving through this neighborhood and everyone is looking at them through the slits in the eyes. They have like the, I don't know what they're called. It's not a burqa. Burqas are for women, right? Correct. It's the male version of that. And they're looking at them.

Jamie Foxx looks at his co-star, the person in the car, he's like, this is a bad area. And I was like, that's a fucking bad area. Way worse than Hempstead. Like way worse than Hempstead. Hempstead, you know, the area I was in at this particular moment that I'm thinking of was bad. I was in danger. I was in physical, like real danger. But Bosnia-Herzegovina was,

almost to me feels worse than this area in kingdom. I don't know why I don't know a lot about it. I guess it's the media, the things that I've heard. I'm sure it's a nice town with regular people for the most part, but then this guy comes along and I just think of like arms dealers when I think of that part of the world, which is totally stereotypical and not accurate. I'm admitting that upfront. Yeah.

But fuck, man, this guy live streaming it. I'm going to be thinking about this for a while. Yeah, this hits very hard. And it just happened. You know, she was just a mother trying to protect herself and her daughter. I mean, something very primal and heart-wrenching about that. And of course, the baby was there. This whole thing is crushing. Yeah.

All right, so maybe we'll have some updates as time goes on and we'll provide them with the people on Instagram. Yes, for sure. But that's all we're going to do on Instagram. We're not going to fucking... Well, I'm not live streaming shit. I've actually thought about live streaming the beginning of the podcast just to give people like a little peek into it. Like a B-reel? No, like they'd see it as we were doing. Oh, I mean, but come on. That actually sounds fun. Yeah.

Just don't hurt me. Me? Yeah. I'm not the one jacked and bald. True. We are dangerous. We are dangerous type, us beluga folk. Beluga. Well, again, thank you so much for doing the research that you did on this case on a dime. Yeah, I wanted to make sure that we had this turned around in time so that it was fresh information.

for viewers or listeners. You turned it around fast. So kudos to you. Thank you. Investigator Slayer. Thank you. I just love this and I love our psychos. So everything I do is for them. Kudos to me as well.

For being a bald, jacked, mean... Nice guy. Nice guy. Yeah. Would never do something like this. No. I might live stream from Tanks and Ostrilator and hug my kids. Do it. I dare you. Yeah. Such a risk taker. That's what I'm going to do. So thank you for listening. We'll see you next episode. Share, rate, review, subscribe. Go over to patreon.com slash psychopedia pod to graduate from psycho to semen demon. And we will see you at the next episode. Thank you, everyone. Bye.