Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
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Get your quote today at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. All right. Welcome back to another episode of Psychopedia. I am your co-host, Hank Sinatra, here with my co-host, James Hetfield. Investigators later.
No, we're not going to talk about Metallica. Talks about Metallica immediately. Immediately. Yeah. Welcome back to the Psychopedia podcast. And we are so glad to have you in this case that I know nothing about. It's been a while. Yeah. And I'll tell you what, it's giving nostalgia. Yeah.
You like going in when it's completely unknown to you, right? Yeah, it reminds me of the old days when I knew absolutely nothing about true crime, why it existed, why people listened, what the deal was. And now it's almost like, it's like a kid who's raised, I'm like a rich kid, but of true crime. I'm spoiled. A little bit. Yeah, I'm spoiled for real. I can't listen, no offense, but...
I can't listen to anything but psychopedia. Oh, yeah. You're spoiled rotten. That's what I meant. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we are the only podcast doing true crime and comedy together. Don't say it.
Don't say it. The only one ever of all time. We are doing the best at this. Okay. That's I think you should leave. Okay. I'm doing the best at this. We, by we, I mean you, do a fucking good job. Thank you. You do a great job as well. I'm like a toddler trying to stick my feet on the ground while getting dragged through the most epic...
epic storytelling you could possibly imagine. Do you typically see toddlers being dragged around? Well, you ever try and hold your kid and they're trying to put their feet on the ground? Oh, yeah. Yeah, they're like water... They usually just end up flying backwards out of my hands. It's like holding a water weenie or whatever those things are called. Oh, noodle? No, no. Like the water weenie where it's like you try and hold it, it falls out of your hands. I don't know what that is, man. You've never held one of those? What you're into. Oh, maybe it's a mock talk thing. I mean, people definitely know what it is. It's like filled with water and it's like a balloon that...
is a cylinder, I guess. And I guess it's hard to hold onto. It's hard to hold onto. Got it. So that's how you feel with a case you know nothing about. Know nothing about. Right. But I like it. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll keep you safe. I won't let you hit your head. I won't drop you. If you do, I'll figure it out. That's kind of how you live and learn. Yeah. So you asked me if we were going to talk about Metallica because we just went to go see Metallica and
And Pantera. In that order. Well, I went to go see Pantera. And then while I was there, I was like, all right, I guess I'll see Metallica too. And we went in depth on Patreon. Patreon.com slash PsychopediaPod. Become a semen demon. Yeah, do it. Join us. That's what it is over there. It's 10 bucks a month. You get pictures of us, videos of us, an extra episode a week. It's called Psychopedia Unhinged.
It might as well be called Psychopedia. Tank Sinatra is unhinged. No, Psychopedia off the rails. Just blown out meth. It's like I'm doing drugs, but I don't do drugs. Guys, I do not stop Tank. I let him go on Unhinged. Yeah. Like you hear me. I have to kind of keep him on a shorter leash on Psychopedia. We got to stick to the case. I got to keep him on track. Yeah, there's a lot to cover. I don't do that on our Patreon episodes.
episodes. He just goes wild like a freak. And it's fun. He loves it. It's fun for me. It's fun for me too. Last night was a lot. I couldn't stop talking about Barbie. I couldn't keep up. Barbie and Metallica. There was probably 80,000 different topics covered. Yeah. But under the umbrella of two. And with me still being extremely hungover from the concert. And trying to get to the case. Yeah. Shabizness. Right. We had no shabizness recording last night. We had no shabizness.
We had zero shit business talking into microphones last night. Right. Onto an SD card, which will be edited and put out for your pleasure on patreon.com slash psychopedia pod. Nice. Psychopedia unhinged. Yeah, we can't do a whole nother round of Barbie and Metallica talk, but it's there if you want it. It'll be there as of August 7th. It'll be out and ready for you. And I'm interested to hear what people think. I want to know if I went too far.
Two off the rails. I can give my opinion, but that doesn't count. Give your opinion. It was a lot. But again, I was very hungover, so I was not in my best form. Well, yeah, you had four whole entire drinks. That's a lot for my tiny little body. That's a lot. It was three too many. Yeah, there was one point, which we didn't actually even talk about during the Patreon. This will be, you know, a little teaser where you were having fun and
And then all of a sudden I looked and you were sitting down with your elbows on your knees and like your head just. Oh no, that was probably the turning point. Oh, a hundred percent was, but it only lasted like, you know, a little while. Yeah. And then you were, and then you went past that and you were like. I just don't drink. I'm not a drinker at all.
Poor Dave. Yeah, he was so good to me. I don't know how he does it. Yeah, well, he's a perfect little angel. He is. Like most men. Uh-huh, y'all. All right, I want to get into the case. All right, all right, all right. Let's dive into the case. Without further shabizness. Nicely done. That might be it from now on. Probably. Let's just hear what you got.
At 5.05 p.m. Five is my favorite number. Just putting that out there. Well, you got two of them there. I know. I have a tattoo on my wrist. Sorry. Go. You do? I have a five tattooed on my arm. Yeah. Oh, it's part of the sleeve. Yeah, yeah. Okay. At 5.05 p.m. on a frigid February evening in 1987. What a fa-fa-fa-fa-fa.
Police officer Julio Aponte stood shivering outside on the porch of a rundown house in North Philadelphia after responding to a call. Officer Aponte was arguing with a neighbor on the block named Warren Hensman, who insisted that Officer Aponte enter the dilapidated house to investigate the source of an overwhelmingly pungent smell.
that had recently enveloped the residence like a thick fog. In Philadelphia? Northern Philadelphia. Okay. Warren's concern was that something may have happened to the owner of the house, a man named Gary, who lately appeared noticeably depressed. When Officer Aponte peeked through a window of Gary's house, he saw a completely ordinary-looking scene.
Wow. Wow.
There just didn't seem to be any reason for Officer Aponte to forcibly enter the home. He could have been cooking broccoli. Could have. It smells like death. Did I ever tell you what happened? Yes, you did. Did I tell it on the podcast? You did. When your wife was cooking broccoli and you thought your dog was farting, like, unrelentingly. I didn't think my dog was farting. I thought my dog was dying. Okay. Or dead. Yeah. It's really bad. She's been known to fart, and they are terrible. And she's like four pounds. Yeah. All of a sudden, I smell this thing, and I'm like,
I'm like, honey, come here. Just smell what I'm smelling and tell me that her insides are not rotting right now while she's on my lap. And then we figured out that it was the broccoli. That's how bad broccoli smells. Yeah, I know. Cabbage is worse.
So as if on cue, though, Gary, the homeowner, suddenly came out of the house very much alive and looking well and reassured Officer Aponte and his neighbor Warren that all was fine and that the suffocating odor coming from inside the house was the embarrassing result of his failed attempt at cooking dinner. Broccoli. Satisfied with Gary's explanation, Officer Aponte got back into his patrol car and left the house. Yeah. But had he gone inside to verify that all was indeed fine and to confirm the source of the noxious odor,
He would have noticed that inside the aluminum pot on the stove was not just a burnt pot roast, but rather a young woman's severed head.
head. Oh my God. And had Officer Aponte taken it a step further to venture into Gary's basement, he would have also encountered the hellish landscape of a man who would go on to serve as the inspiration for the savage and freaky character Buffalo Bill in Silence of the Lambs. Shut the fuck up. This is the case of none other than American killer, abductor, rapist, torturer, and projected cannibal, Gary Heidnik.
What does projected cannibal mean? You're going to find out. Okay. I just don't want to give it away too soon. Gary Heidnik? Yes. Gary Heidnik is the inspiration for Buffalo Bill? Yep. And you've seen Silence of the Lambs, I take it? Yeah. I actually, I have such dark, obviously, memories of that movie.
Because I saw it at such a bad time for someone to see it. I saw it when I was like 11 or something, 12. Everything is so much scarier at that time. And I just, I can't. I've tried to think about maybe watching that movie again. Can't do it. I can't. I did it with Pet Sematary, which... That was rough. Have you seen it as an adult? No, I can't for the same exact reason. So Pet Sematary changed my life in a bad way. Meaning when the guy came in from going outside and he looked at his feet and there was mud, I was like...
my childhood's over at that point. Like I was like, I'm, I don't know what's what anymore. Yeah. Evil is abound. And, and when I watched it as an adult, it was like comically scary. I had that happen. Dave and I, we were just dating and he knows how creepy I am and I'm into all this shit. So he's like, I'm going to show you the scariest movie ever. Probably thinking he was going to impress me. It was something called, I think like the kids in the wall.
or kids under the stairs or something like that. Children under the stairs. Children under the stairs. Yeah. He puts it on. He's like, I listen, like brace for impact. And he's like so impressed with himself that he's going to show me something I've never seen before. Yeah. We were cracking up. Oh, it's terrible. It was so bad.
Yeah. Zero percent scary. Yeah. But he was terrified as a little boy watching it. You know, a movie's still scary. Chucky, yes, it is. Misery. Ooh, yeah. Misery. So is Silence of the Lambs. As an adult, if you were to go back and watch it, I guarantee you'd feel the same way. I've seen clips of it on YouTube and I'm like, I don't need this in my fucking algorithm. I don't need it coming back to haunt me more and more. Well, I'm going to haunt you further because this character, this real life character,
Buffalo Bill. Oh, God, the fucking lotion. It just blows Buffalo Bill out of the water. Oh, great. Because it's real. Yep, so just, I'm sorry. Cool. But not sorry at all. Yeah, I mean, this is why I say you drag me through cases with my feet. Kicking and screaming. Kicking and screaming, but I'm here. Yeah. I'm buckled in. I don't care, man. Let's go. I feel like I'm in danger, but I am safe. Gary Heidnik was born in November 1943 to Ellen and Michael Heidnik, and his upbringing was rough.
Marital problems between Ellen and Michael quickly ensued and by 1946, the couple divorced, with Ellen assuming custody of both Gary and his younger brother Terry.
Unfortunately, Ellen, who was a part-time beautician and a full-time alcoholic, was unable to properly care for the children, prompting them to move back in with their father, Michael, and his new wife. Ellen was the alcoholic. And his mother. Yeah. So already the first few years of his life are tumultuous. And regrettably, Michael was equally unfit to parent the children. Yeah. He too struggled with alcoholism and was hot-tempered and physically aggressive. Yeah.
Michael was also severely emotionally abusive and would intentionally humiliate the boys in public, particularly Gary, who experienced some developmental delays that made him an easy target for his punishing father. Beginning in childhood and extending into adulthood, Gary experienced the common traits shared by many serial killers known as nocturnal and neurosis, or more commonly referred to as bedwetting. That's one third of the McDonald triad. Yes, it is.
I'm so proud. Yeah, the other two are arson or obsession with fire and torturing small animals. Oh my God. I just want to give you a gold star. You're not going to get me again with that McDonald triad. No, I am proud to say that you've learned. It's ingrained in my memory now. Good for you. Good job. And we've discussed bedwetting, obviously, as Tank just mentioned as one of the- What is it called? Nocturnal enurosis? Yes. E-N-U-R-E-S-I-S.
And it usually stems from a lack of confidence and excessive fear, both of which Gary experienced as a result of a berating father who constantly shamed him and poked fun at all of his idiosyncrasies. And he had a lot. Or, and I know we've talked about this before, bedwetting could be a result of not breathing deeply enough. Yes, you've mentioned that before. Which is probably...
a recent discovery that would not be in... Right. I wonder if they were to probe further into that. Yeah. If rather than bedwetting being one of the three, it would be like insufficient oxygen intake. You know what I mean? It's interesting. I'm going to look into that. Remind me. Okay. And pop quiz number one. Cool.
What specifically did Gary's father do when Gary would wet the bed? Oh. A, force him to hang up his urine-stained sheets out of his bedroom window in full view of his neighbors. B, force him to wear his urine-soaked underwear the entire day. Ugh. C, force Gary's face down into the wet sheets like you might do with a dog you're training. I don't like any of them. I don't want any of them to be what he did. Um...
Make him hang his sheets out? Yes. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's exactly what he did. He was into humiliating Gary. That's the most embarrassing. Agreed. Yeah. Agreed. And he would also beat Gary with a wooden airplane each time he wet the bed. The abuse at home was just unrelenting for him. How old was he when he was wetting the bed? Prior to eight.
Really? But as I mentioned, it extended past eight years old as well into adulthood. But this was happening when? This was happening before eight. Everything I just described. Now we're going to advance a little bit in his timeline. I wonder if insufficient oxygen is...
a major culprit for people who have behavioral problems when they're sleeping. That's exactly what we were just alluding to, right? Yeah, yeah. Like if they were to dig a little bit deeper, it may not be bedwetting. That may be a symptom of this greater issue. Yeah. And I do want to look into that. Got to get those kids on a CPAP machine. Oh.
I know. In addition to the abuse at home, Gary was also teased and bullied by his peers. When he was just eight years old, Gary fell 20 feet out of a tree and smashed his skull on the ground, resulting in a misshapen head. Jeez. And the kids at school tormented him about this and would call him football head. Wow. Like, hey Arnold, remember that Nickelodeon cartoon? Yeah. Yeah.
But even more devastating than the teasing was the fact that Gary, according to his father, experienced a personality change following the accident and began to exhibit violent tendencies. In other words, he underwent that classic personality change that we often see in killers, serial killers, who injure their heads in childhood. We saw that with...
John Wayne Gacy, we haven't covered him yet. Albert Fish, Son of Sam, Ed Gein, just to name a few. All had head injuries. Really? Yeah. That's just a handful of examples. Yeah. And what do you do if like your kid has a head injury? You don't just euthanize them. No, you can't euthanize them. But I think when you're exhibiting symptoms as a child, it's imperative to get that child psychological help.
Unless you are, and I'm going to get in trouble for saying this because people don't like when I say this, I firmly believe everyone is doing their best always with whatever tools they have at their disposal. Sometimes people have worse tools. Sometimes they don't know how to use them. Everyone's doing their best. If you see a kid that has bad behavior and your response to that is to beat them, to try and curb their behavior rather than get them the help they need, you're exacerbating the problem. But you're just doing your best.
Yeah, I don't know if I can agree with the statement that they're doing their best. They are. They would be doing something different if they knew to or could. I believe that about everybody. I don't think it's not my best. No, I know. Sometimes your best is horrible. Right. I'm not sure that somebody who does that is trying to do their best. They could be, but they could also not be. They could also be abusive, hot-tempered.
you know, not wanting to do anything that takes real work. Yeah, that's their best though. That's what I'm saying. Okay. Or it's the easy way out. Yeah, but that's their best thinking is like, that's what they're capable of doing at that moment. Okay. No, it's interesting. It's an interesting perspective. We'll do a Patreon episode on it because I could talk about that for a long time. I can tell. Yeah.
See, this is where she says shut up with her eyes. Right. And we get back to the case. This is why I'm not so into like videoing our sessions because they would see me giving you death stares to just can it. Yeah. Yeah. You're good. You talked out now. Okay. Good. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big ROAS man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend.
My friend's still laughing me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com slash results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. As a coping mechanism to the tensions at home and his constant sense of fear, shame, and social isolation,
Gary began to develop fictional stories in his head in which he existed as a superior character to his peers and family. And this is important to remember because it's a recurring theme. He stopped seeking anyone else's approval and started to perceive himself as being far better than absolutely everyone around him. In doing so, Gary essentially shut everyone out. He stopped making eye contact with people and he began to exist on a one-man, self-important island.
Gary happened to have performed very well at school. He tested as having an IQ of between 130 and 148, which is considered moderately gifted. That's pretty high. It's very high. Yeah. At age 14, Gary was sent to Staunton Military Academy in Virginia, where he stayed for two years before finishing up in public school and then enlisting in the Army right away.
And Gary excelled in the military and he remained highly focused and dedicated to becoming a trained medic. He really thrived in that setting that was like very structured and routinized.
He was transferred to the 46th Army Surgical Hospital in West Germany, where he received his GED and was considered to be one of the best medics in the entire hospital. Although he rarely spoke to anyone and considered everyone around him to be a worthless peon. Wait, so he got his GED and he didn't graduate high school or he did? So there's a couple of conflicting sources on this. It
It's universal that he left military school at 16 and then went back to high school, but it's debatable if he graduated. I guess if he got his GED. But I don't think so exactly. I think he got his GED and then he went on to be a very highly trained, adept medic. Yeah. Then in 1962, Gary was actually admitted to the hospital as a patient after he began to exhibit headaches, dizziness, and problems with his vision.
He was initially diagnosed with severe gastroenteritis, but then soon after was determined to have been showing symptoms of schizoid personality disorder and anxiety. The neurologist prescribed him an antipsychotic medication called Stelazine and then transferred him back to the United States where he was admitted as a patient into a military hospital, like a VA hospital. As a result of his psychological condition, Gary was honorably discharged from service with a full disability pension.
And it remains uncertain whether Gary ever took any of the prescribed medication. Yeah. Upon his release from the hospital, Gary became a licensed nurse, though had difficulty maintaining employment, which is yet another common trait of individuals who later turn out to be seriously disturbed killers. Yeah. On top of his psychological issues and inability to hold down a job, Gary took a tremendous emotional hit when on Mother's Day in 1970, his mother, Ellen, confessed
committed suicide in her basement by drinking mercuric chloride. On Mother's Day? Yep. That fucking sucks. And although Gary wasn't terribly close with Ellen, Doesn't matter. her death was said to have had a significant impact on him. Yeah. In fact, he actually tried to commit suicide following her suicide, but was discovered shortly after taking an overdose and taken to a hospital where he received treatment.
Gary went on to have more than a dozen additional suicide attempts, including one time when he drove his motorcycle head-on into a truck, another time he tried to hang himself, another time he chopped up a light bulb and ingested the glass, which we had another case where somebody did that, Leonardo Cianciulli. She tried to eat a light bulb? Yeah, glass.
Oh yeah, that's right. And many attempts at overdosing on prescription medication. In total, he had 22 documented hospital admissions. Wow. That's a lot. That is a lot.
By 1971, Gary's superiority complex took complete control over his life. He needed to be a king wielding absolute power over his inferior subjects, which prompted him to do which of the following things? Give their co-hosts pop quizzes. Pop quiz.
Get it? I get that. Thanks. A, become a nurse at a methadone clinic in Philadelphia. B, sponsor multiple Girl Scouts troops in Philadelphia and hosted meetings at his home. C, establish and incorporate a church. B, Girl Scouts. No. Yeah. Okay. Sorry, Queen Slater. Hey, that has a ring to it. It might stick. A, become a nurse
No. Okay, then C. Yes, nice job. Thanks. Yep. Started a church. He established and incorporated a church. And he did this after he claimed to have heard God speak to him. Yes. Okay. We also had another person who we discussed in a previous episode who claims to have heard God speaking to him. Early, early episode.
Yeah. Father... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Heinrich? That was his father's name. Father Hans Schmidt. Father Hans Schmidt. Very good, though. What was the name of that episode? Meet Me at the Slaughterhouse. Meet Me at the... Oh, that was a fucking good one. That was a good one. That was the... I should have stopped saying doozy then. If you haven't listened to Meet Me at the Slaughterhouse, you are missing out. I think that was our first case. That guy...
cut off a chicken head and put their head on the tip of his penis and wore it around. With the beak sticking out. With the dog's nose sticking out.
Oh my God. It was a wild one. That was a crazy one. So back to Gary Heidnik, God apparently instructed Gary to start a church and to produce as many children as he could. Oh, one of those shiny, happy people. Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah. Actually, I met, as you know, with the producer of shiny, happy people because of the work I do on behalf of survivors. Yeah. And that documentary is fantastic.
Off the charts. Yeah, it's insane. It's chilling. So Gary incorporated his own monolithic church called United Church of the Ministers of God in which he had total and complete power over its members. Obviously. Establishing himself as the church's duly elected bishop.
Gary placed himself in a position of supreme power and total control. Was he a pastor? Did he have biblical knowledge? No. Did he have biblical knowledge? He certainly passed it off as such. Yeah. You know, he gave sermons. I don't know how accurate, but when you listen to the types of people who joined his church, you're going to understand that it almost didn't matter what he was saying. Yeah. He started referring to himself as Brother Heidnik and developed a constitution that stipulated his total power and control. Wow.
Good for him. Gary's homegrown church began with just five congregants and $1,500. But through smart investing with Merrill Lynch, he incredibly managed to aggregate over half a million dollars, along with several white Cadillacs, a Rolls Royce, and a house full of devout followers. He was preaching that prosperity gospel. Yeah. And how many people did he wind up having in the church? Over 50 devout followers.
Wow. Most of Gary's congregants lived in the area and they were extremely young, vulnerable, and suffering from one mental disability or another. Interestingly as well, all of the attendees were black. Persisting in his illusions of grandeur and preying upon the psychologically vulnerable, Heidnik extended his operation by acquiring a larger three-story house in Philadelphia. Everything in Gary's life was pretty steady at this point, but
But for the fact that he hadn't yet fulfilled God's second instruction, which was to produce as many children as possible. Gary is white? Gary is white. Okay. And race does play...
play a part in this case, which is why I mentioned that his congregants were exclusively black. Realizing that he had this second part of God's command, if you will, to fulfill the children is when he decided to prey upon his first victim, a mentally impaired churchgoer named Gail Linkow, whom he got pregnant. Gail ended up giving birth to Gary's son, Gary Jr., who was immediately taken into foster care as a result of Gail's inability to care for him.
Because she was mentally impaired? Yeah. Then, Gary impregnated another young vulnerable woman named Anjanette Davidson, with whom he'd been living at the time, who was illiterate and suffering from psychological issues. Anjanette gave birth on March 16, 1978 to Gary's daughter, Maxine, who was
also immediately taken and placed into foster care. Gary's anger began to climb because when it came to fulfilling God's second order to produce loads of kids, he was essentially 0 for 2 because he procreated twice, but they were both taken. It was at this point when Gary decided to visit Anjanette's sister, Alberta Davidson, who was living at a place called the Selleds Grove Center.
So this facility is a state-owned intermediate care facility for people with intellectual disabilities. And Alberta, who at this point was 34 years old, maintains the mental age of a toddler. And she'd been living there since she was 14. And he impregnated her? No. So Gary and Anjanette, who's Alberta's sister, signed Alberta out for the day and took her back to Gary's home, where she was immediately taken into the basement and locked down there.
Over the next 10 days, Gary abused, tortured, raped, and sodomized Alberta. Yikes.
Given that Alberta had only been granted a day pass to leave when Gary and Anjanette signed her out 10 days earlier, the police were alerted about her disappearance. Yeah. They arrived at Gary's home where she was presumed to have been taken and discovered her disheveled and trembling in the basement. That's... Did they take her just to fucking rape her and abuse her? Yes. That's fucking... So Anjanette has psychological impairment. So she...
doesn't, I don't think, fully have a handle on what's going on. And Alberta is in what kind of a hospital? So it's a place where she had been since she was 14. She's now 34. It's a facility. It's a state-owned intermediate care facility for people with intellectual disabilities. So Alberta and Anjanette both... That's correct. Yeah. And Alberta, while she's 34 years old, she has the mental age of a toddler.
And Anjanette is the one that goes to the church. Correct. And she also happens to be living with Gary as well. Got it. So the two of them, Gary and Anjanette, checked Alberta out of that facility for the day, presumably, and then took her back to the house. And locked her in the basement. A full medical examination, of course, revealed that Alberta had been sexually assaulted and Gary was therefore charged with kidnapping, rape, unlawful restraint, false imprisonment, involuntary deviant sexual intercourse,
Wow. Oh, so six years in a facility. Yes. Well, that's what the resentence was. Yeah. Pop quiz. Wow.
A, he impregnated one of the other patients and helped her to escape so she could have his baby. Oh my God. B, he shaved all his hair to expose his misshapen skull, which he claimed enabled him to telepathically communicate with God. Relatable. C, he turned selectively mute and claimed that Satan shoved a cookie down his throat that prevented him from being able to speak. My mind is racing right now. I know, I love it. Um...
If it's C, I mean, we're done. You're done. I'm choosing A. You chose incorrectly.
I'm choosing B. You chose incorrectly. Oh, okay. So that was really what happened. Yeah. Oh my God, dude. If you fucking created that, I've joked about it before. I'd be concerned. That I would like legitimately do give me pause. Yeah. If you came up with that. I mean, I could have. He became selectively mute and claimed that Satan shoved a cookie down his throat. Yep. And that's what prevented him from being able to speak. But that's what he really did.
Yeah, that's what he really did. He slipped a guard in the facility a handwritten note one day explaining that I am no longer able to speak because Satan shoved a cookie down my throat. I'll be honest, B is pretty fucked up too. He shaved his head and claimed that his misshapen head allowed him to go to the bathroom. Yeah, I mean, right. It's pretty bad too. Not as bad as C. C is the worst. I'm glad it's the one that actually happened. So for the next two and a half years, two and a half years, Gary Heidnik spoke not one word.
Still, in 1983, he was released after only serving three years inside the institution and showing absolutely no remorse for what he'd done to Alberta. Two and a half of which he was on a word strike. Right. So imagine you have somebody who's selectively mute, who's committed for those heinous crimes, and you release him after only serving three years. That's wild.
Upon his release, Gary purchased yet another new home at the now infamous 3520 North Marshall Street off the profits of his church, while also acquiring himself a 22-year-old mail-order bride named Betty Disto from the Philippines. The pair got married on October 3rd, 1985, and shortly into their nuptials had a massive fight when Betty came home to discover her new husband in bed with three women.
Playa! Gary tried to convince Betty that this sort of thing was normal in the U.S. Then, a couple of days after that, Gary forced Betty, who was actually pregnant at the time, to watch him have sex with a sex worker. Jeez. This is what we're dealing with. What a guy. Needless to say, Betty sought help from the Filipino community in Philadelphia who helped her file for divorce at
at which point she revealed that Gary had repeatedly raped, beaten, and sexually assaulted her throughout their marriage. That's terrible, but I'm glad that there was people around her that were able to help. Yeah, they got her out of Dodge. So until the late 1970s, most states in the U.S. did not consider marital rape a crime. Until when? 1970s? So with the passage of the Marital Rape Law of Pennsylvania in February 1985...
Gary Heidnik was charged with indecent assault, spousal rape, assault, and involuntary deviant sexual intercourse. Oh, because this was in the 80s. Right. Now, these charges were dropped, however, because Betty went into hiding within the Filipino community, and she never showed up in court to testify. So without her testimony...
They couldn't go after him. Side note, in 1995, the law in Pennsylvania caught up even further by no longer distinguishing between victims of rape who are married or unmarried to their rapist. Meaning rape is rape, whether it's your husband or a stranger. Once Betty left Gary, he apparently completely succumbed to the demons in his head. And that's a quote. It was at this point when he decided to establish a baby factory in his basement. Wow.
in which he planned to imprison and impregnate 10 different women on repeat indefinitely. This was his plan. Wow. And in November of 1986... I was picturing like boss baby shit when I left. I know, I know. Of course, of course. You don't know where this is going. No. In November of 1986, Gary Heidnik officially put this perverse plan into action.
His first abductee was Josefina Rivera, who was a sex worker in the area. Gary picked up Josefina one night in his white Cadillac Coupe de Ville, and she was immediately struck by the driver's piercing blue eyes and misshapen head. Regardless of any hesitation she may have felt, though, Josefina unfortunately got into Gary's car and went back with him to his house.
Aside from the juxtaposition between the seedy neighborhood in which Gary lived and the flashy white caddy and the 1971 Rolls Royce parked on his driveway, Josephine was more taken aback by the strange interior of Gary's home. First of all, it was filthy.
The furniture was falling apart and there was actual dirt and grime all over the place. Wow. But even stranger than that was what Gary had adorning the walls. Pop quiz. Pop quiz. Fucking knew it. What did Gary have adorning the walls of his kitchen and hallway? Okay. A, taxidermy rodents, the likes of which included rats, squirrels, and even tiny chipmunks. B, currency, including pennies, $1 bills, and $5 bills.
Or C, naked photographs of women next to Jesus fish symbols. Naked photographs of women? Nope. Okay. Taxidermy? Nope.
Then the other one. Yep. Which was... Pennies, $1 bills, and $5 bills. Speaking of taxidermy, we have a dog who's older. Not old, but he's like older. He's 11, and he's decrepit. Oh, I love Ty Ty. The best, but he's... He's not looking great these days. By the way, the guy that we went to the concert with? Yeah. Jenny, his dog has been alive forever. What's the secret?
Don't die. I don't know. No, I mean, what's he doing? I want to do it for Cashie. I want Cashie alive forever. This dog, I went to his house. I picked him up to go to the concert. I picked him up. I walk inside. This dog is looking at me from the bottom of the steps just like, kill me. I've been around too long. I can't believe this dog is still alive. What kind of dog?
A mutt. But like a big dog? 25 pounds maybe. But like in, you know, good proportions or whatever. Tyler is 27 pounds, but he's fat as fuck. He a big boy. But we were joking about when we, you know, eventually have to whatever with him. We were telling my older son, we were going to put his head on a plaque like a moose. Oh my God. Some A1 parenting right there.
I'm going to go hug your son after this. Because when you think about the fact that people kill deer and elk and buffalo and whatever, maybe not. Do they kill buffalo? Probably. I'm sure. Yeah. And then they cut the heads off and put it on a plaque and hang it on the wall. It's horrible. It's fucking weird. It's horrible. That is bizarre. It's barbaric. It's very strange. I remember when we were looking at houses...
There was this house that was like really nice from the outside, well-priced, great neighborhood. And the pictures inside, fucking dead animal heads everywhere. I was like, there's no way I could. So we go to the Adirondacks every year with Dave's parents and we stay in the same place and it's really, really nice. It's on a lake. And the big like dining hall has everything.
an enormous deer head over the fireplace. And every night his parents request to sit right underneath it because it's close to the fireplace. I'm like, have we met? Yeah. Do you know how uncomfortable and sad this makes me feel? So strange. Anyway. We're going to do it with Ty Ty though. Okay. I'm never coming over again. So what Gary did next marked the commencement of a level of depravity that soared to such extreme heights that
it resulted in the creation of a literal classic horror movie character that was modeled after him, Buffalo Bill. This is your official trigger warning. Please, heed it. All right, we are 40 minutes in, and you're getting your first and only trigger warning. Yeah, this has David Parker Ray vibes all over it, so I urge you to please listen with caution, and it gets progressively worse until we get to the end of the case. So brace for emotional impact on this. Okay.
Who's Josephine? Sorry. Oh, she was the one who was put off by his piercing blue eyes and misshapen head. Yes. Got it. Okay. Yeah.
Fucked. Yeah.
When Josephine mustered the courage to ask Gary what he was doing, he replied very calmly that his plan was to imprison, systematically rape, and impregnate 10 women so as to create an enormous brood of children. She's the first one? Yes. When Josephine scoffed at the lunacy of Gary's plan, he demonstrated his seriousness by dropping his shovel and violently raping her. Then he beat her profusely with a stick covered in nails before throwing her into the pit
and sealing it shut with wooden planks and weights to reinforce her captivity. Horrifying. A short while later, another woman, bound and almost completely naked, was thrown into the pit alongside Josephine.
This woman, whose name was Sandra Lindsay, had been walking to a store to buy pain medication for her menstrual cramps when Gary abducted her. When she entered the pit alongside Josephine, Sandra remained utterly silent and exhibited obvious signs of shock with her terrified eyes fixed wide open in a blank gaze. But this wasn't the only reason for Sandra's silence. Josephine quickly realized that Sandra clearly suffered from mental challenges.
Over the course of the next couple of days, Gary made frequent visits down to the pit where he repeatedly raped Josephine and Sandra while keeping them both almost entirely naked at all times. Trying to impregnate them. That's right. He also beat them both severely each time, one and then the other. Anytime either one of them made a noise or cried or screamed for help, they would both be beaten. Ugh.
Gary began to develop his skills as a torturer over time and came up with a cruel method of punishment where he'd tie one of the women's arms to the pipe on the ceiling while leaving her suspended in that position for hours. On one occasion, he even forced Sandra to write letters to her family indicating that she'd gone away for a while and would be a touch again shortly. As Christmas approached, Gary decided it was time to add an additional quote-unquote wife to the pit.
This is when he abducted 19-year-old Lisa Thomas off the street as she walked to a friend's house. A week later, a fourth victim was added, 23-year-old Deborah Dudley, who was said to be confrontational and combative and would challenge and belittle Gary's authority each time he entered the basement to attack the women. Good for her. As punishment for Deborah's misbehavior and disobedience, Gary would rape and beat all the women.
And when he wasn't raping each woman in turn, he forced them to have sex with each other while he watched. Food was rarely provided, and when it was, it came in the form of canned dog food. Gary would require the women to eat every last bite of the nauseating mush and to show him their appreciation for the privilege. Then a fifth victim was added, an 18-year-old woman named Jacqueline Askins.
So let's talk for a moment about his victim selection, which I alluded to a little bit earlier. But Gary intentionally targeted Black women, several of whom were sex workers and at least one of whom struggled with developmental disabilities.
Gary figured that the disappearance of these women would attract less attention from law enforcement and the media, which in and of itself is an absolutely tragic reality that proved to be accurate. Yeah, and a diabolical move on his part. Absolutely. Similar to the invisible children of Pakistan that we discussed in episode 22 a few weeks ago, the women in today's case were inexcusably considered less disappeared than
than, say, a middle-class white suburban woman might be. Yeah. And this was back in the 1970s. In 2004, the term Missing White Woman Syndrome was coined, and it refers to the extensive...
attention given to cases involving young, attractive, white, upper middle class women or girls in contrast to the relatively low focus given on missing women who are not white, who belong to lower social classes or involve missing men or boys. Yeah. So he knew what he was doing when he targeted his victims. And in addition to that, he was said to have had a sexual preference for black women. And he also just considered himself to be superior to
Yeah. So they checked every box for him. Why was his superiority wasn't a race thing, was it?
In this case, it's part of it. It was everybody. It was everybody, but it was sort of just an extra box he could tick. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He felt it even more so with that demographic. Yeah, okay. Having five women now chained and confined in the basement pit, Gary understood the necessity of employing powerful control and manipulation tactics to maintain their constant fear and obedience.
First, to drown out their screaming and to keep them off balance, Gary blasted heavy metal music at full volume day and night. He turned the women against each other, forcing them to rat each other out for minor infractions while punishing anyone who refused to speak ill of their fellow captives. It did not take long for the women to learn that the more they complied with Gary's sick demands...
The more affection and desire they showed him, the less brutal he'd be towards them. As such, each time Gary would remove the planks from the pit to engage with his victims, he'd be greeted by their desperate and eager attempts to make him happy rather than their desperate attempts to escape or lash out. And he probably loved that. He fed into his complex completely. Yeah.
Josephine Rivera, who, as I mentioned, was his first victim, quickly rose the ranks to become Gary's favorite prisoner. She was most adept at appealing to his need to feel superior and as such was chosen by Gary to be his sort of like right hand prisoner.
Josephine managed to convince Gary to give her special treatment and was even placed in charge of the basement when Gary wasn't around. To someone who was starving, isolated from the outside world, and surviving on a meager diet of dog food, this special treatment felt like a blessing. There are some who feel that Josephine ended up becoming an accomplice to Gary and that she was suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.
And you know what Stockholm Syndrome is, right? I don't know if I agree with the whole accomplice thing and she's trying to survive. Completely. That's what I was going to say. And I don't even think she had Stockholm Syndrome because I don't think she ever felt a genuine connection or love or empathetic towards her captor. I think she was in survival mode and she figured out a way to survive. Yeah. Then on February 7th, 1987, which was three months after this terrible situation began,
"'Gary killed Sandra Lindsay. "'Sandra attempted to remove the wooden planks "'covering the pit, which prompted Gary to handcuff her "'and suspend her from the ceiling by her hands "'for several days.'
While hanging by her hands, Sandra became physically unable to eat and developed a raging fever. Gary beat the shit out of Sandra for not eating because he felt that that would interfere with her ability to get pregnant. So he tried to force feed her. And beating her won't. Right. Yeah. Causing her to retch and vomit as her body continued to languish and break down while she remained suspended by her wrists.
Then after several days, Sandra's brutalized body eventually went limp. To the other victims' shock and horror, she died right in front of them. Yeah. Gary brought Sandra's body upstairs while the rest of the women remained paralyzed with fear. They were in complete shock over Sandra's death and had no idea what Gary planned to do with her body until they heard the sound of a power saw whirring to life upstairs.
As if this was not horrifying enough, what happened next? Pop quiz. A. Gary's dog ran into the basement with a large, meaty human bone in his mouth. Oh my God. B. Gary forced the women to bury Sandra's dismembered remains in the floor of the pit in which they were being held. C.
C. Gary severed one small body part from each surviving woman as a sinister reminder that they could suffer the same fate as Sandra if they misbehaved. What was the last one? He did what? The last one? He severed one small body part from each surviving woman. A finger, an ear. No, the dog thing. Yeah. Hey, you'd never make up anything about a dog. True. True, true, true.
27 pounds of body parts were placed inside Gary's freezer while the rest were cooked on the stove or in the oven. Then some of Sandra's remains were ground up, mixed together with dog food and fed to the remaining women in the pit. And that's what projected cannibalism is. In answer to your earlier question. Making other people eat people? Yep.
Oh, that's fucking horrible. And the smell of the cooking human was so vile... It must be horrible. ...that it prompted a neighbor named Warren to call the police. Hey, you ever burn your arm hair on a candle or something? Uh, no, I can't say that I have. Have you ever burned hair anywhere? Oh, hair, yeah. I mean, with my straightening iron. Yeah, it smells awful. It's gross. Burning protein and... It's just... It's awful. But imagine that times a million. How come...
human flesh burning is vile but like the smell of like dinner cooking isn't I'm just curious is that because we're wired to have like a visceral reaction to cannibalism you know what I mean probably yeah yeah
And this brings us to the top of the episode when Officer Aponte arrived at Gary Heidnik's house in response to a call he received about a foul odor enveloping a dilapidated house in northern Philly. Oh, it was dilapidated? Yeah. He wasn't living in a nice house in a mansion? No, that was the juxtaposition. I'm kidding, I'm joking. Wow. I was like, wow, man, you usually have a really good short-term memory, but...
This piece of shit human being who was killing people couldn't get his finances weren't in order. He had a phenomenal bank account too, but he needed to be in that community to attract or prey upon the vulnerable members of the community to enlist them as his church members. Yeah. After the police officer left that day,
Gary became extremely paranoid that he was going to be caught as a result of someone hearing one of the women screaming when he wasn't at home. No, it wasn't. It was the fucking smell. It was the smell, but this is where his head is. Can you imagine having four women in your basement? Used to be five. One is dead. You're cooking one. And then a cop knocks on your door.
Apparently he like moseyed on out of the front door and he's like, all good here. Just burnt my dinner. Silly me. Yeah. Totally cool as a cucumber. My dinner happens to be a human being, but it is the truth. Yeah.
Something bad is coming. Yeah.
into their ears. Oh, why? Because he wanted to render them unable to hear him when he would leave the house. Why didn't he just fucking leave quietly? Because this is Gary Heidnik. What a fucking asshole. The only victim spared was Josephine, the one that Gary felt he could trust. So he, oh my God. So he, I'm touching my ear. He wrapped their heads in duct tape.
Mm-hmm. And then stuck a screwdriver into their ear. Yeah. So now they're deaf permanently. I mean, that was the goal. Yeah.
Yeah.
afterward, Gary brought Debra back downstairs and resolved to intensify the fear tactics even further. So it's March 18th and Gary fills the pit with freezing cold water and forces all of the women except for Josephine to stand in the water.
Then he lowered live wires into the pit and watched as each woman flailed and screamed while enduring excruciating electric shocks. Oh, he put the live wires in the water? Yes. I thought he just like hung them as a threat. Nope.
Tragically, Deborah Dudley's chain made direct contact with the live wire, which resulted in her electrocution and immediate death. The other ones didn't die? No, they were shocked, but they did not die. That's fucked. And Gary barely reacted when Deborah was killed. He said, quote, Yeah, she's dead. Now I can get back to having a peaceful basement.
Gary forced Josephine to go with him to hide Deborah's body in the New Jersey Pine Barrens. He allowed Josephine to leave the house because he was so arrogant and felt that he had total control over her, as well as her unwavering loyalty. He'd even begun to force Josephine to accompany him on abduction runs, in which he'd force her to help him lure in additional victims.
which she did on one account and brought back a woman named Agnes Adams. Yeah. What Josephine was really doing was pulling the wool over Gary's eyes and slowly turning the tables. She was controlling him. Yeah. And he didn't even realize it. She was carrying out a plan that she had been carefully crafting and putting into motion over several weeks.
waiting for the right opportunity to make her final play. And that opportunity happens now in the case.
Wow. Wow.
She walks calmly around the corner to where Gary could no longer see her and then rushed over to the nearest payphone to call 911. Within minutes, Gary Heidnik was arrested at the gas station and Josephine led the police to Gary's house where the other victims were.
were rescued. Good for her. And that rescue happened four months after all of this began. Wow. Let's shed some light on the human beings who endured the unthinkable down in Gary Heidnik's basement because
Again, they are often referred to as sex workers or mentally disabled or psychologically impaired, but they were real people with real lives, real people who loved them, real futures that were irrevocably altered or completely taken. For sure. So I just want to highlight the victims for a moment. Josefina Rivera was 25 years old when Gary kidnapped her. At that time, she was a mother of three young children,
She was struggling with drug addiction and she was working as a sex worker just to make ends meet. Sandra Lindsay was a 24-year-old congregant at Gary's church when she was taken. She struggled with developmental disabilities, which I mentioned.
Gary had actually previously groomed Sandra by taking her to Great Adventure and buying her dinner at McDonald's, meaning that she likely willingly got into his car on the night in which she was abducted. Sandra had a mother and a sister, Tracy, who never stopped looking for her or serving as a public voice following her death.
Jacqueline Askins was the youngest victim. She was only 18 at the time, and she was so small that Gary had to use handcuffs instead of the normal shackles on her ankles to keep her restrained. Wow. Deborah Dudley was just 23 years old and fought Gary tooth and nail every time he entered the pit to sexually assault or torment her in spite of the backlash she'd received for doing so. She had sisters who loved her and who mourned her savage death.
Lisa Thomas was only 19 years old, and she lost around 40 to 50 pounds during her captivity. She had a sister, Denny, and an Aunt Sylvia who loved her. And Agnes Adams was just 24 years old. She thankfully only spent one day in captivity. She was the victim that Josefina Rivera helped to lure back to the house. She was rescued the day on which she was taken. Yeah. So that's just a brief memorial, if you will. Yeah. For the victims.
PQ, man. Pop quiz. Okay. Following Gary's arrest and the discovery of the victims in the pit in his basement, what explanation did Gary provide to law enforcement as to why the women were even down there? Let's hear this bullshit. A, he claims he had no idea they were down there because he never uses his basement.
B, he claims Josephine was his jealous lover who abducted and punished any woman she felt Gary looked at with interest. So put it all on Josephine. C, he claimed the women came with the house and were already there when he moved in. Like a built-in cabinet? The fuck? Oh my God. Your lab is contagious. Um...
Take your shot in the dark. It can't be that he said they came with the house. Can it? Can it? Can it? It can. Is that my choice? And it does. That's what he said? Yes. What a fucking...
You know who he reminds me of? Like in true psychopathic form, the level of arrogance, like Jerry Brudos. What a fucking moron. Like he thinks he is so much smarter than everyone and that he's always going to be able to pull one over. No, sir. No. Not this time. Nope. They came with the house, like a playground in the backyard. A swing set. Keep the dishwasher. Like what?
Gary Heidnik entered a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity. But insanity is a legal term, not a psychiatric one, which we've discussed many times before. The fact that he had schizophrenia, a psychiatric illness, does not mean that he was insane and incapable of understanding right from wrong at the time in which he carried out his crimes. And while he went after easy targets...
His crimes were relatively well executed and they were maintained for four months and covered up entirely. Yeah. The only reason he got caught was because ironically enough for him, he was outsmarted by a female sex worker. Good. Who he thought was so beneath him. Perfect justice. Yes, absolutely. The jury found Gary Heidnik guilty of first degree murder. And in July, 1988, Judge Lynn Abraham sentenced him to death for
Sorry, dude. What, did he want to be like extra awake when he got fried? Oh, God. Fuck, dude. Yeah, let me get a cup of coffee. I want to really experience this. Mm-hmm.
Gary Heidnik was executed by lethal injection at 10.20 p.m. on July 6, 1999. He was 55 years old and remains the last person to have been executed in the state of Pennsylvania. 1999? Mm-hmm. So he was alive when Silence of the Lambs came out? When did it come out? Like 1992 or something? Yeah. Yeah. Wow, that must have served right into his fucking superiority. I'm sure. Yeah.
All of the survivors received a $30,000 settlement. Oh, wow. This guy's definitely fucking death penalty well-deserved. You don't typically see him described as a sadist. Yeah. But I think very much he got off on what he was doing and enjoyed it. I don't think he was just a product sort of killer slash torturer. Yeah. Meaning like the deaths were just a product of what he was trying to do, which was to, you know, rape and produce children and enslave these women. Did he get any kids?
Not from that group. He said the first two. No, but Sandra, who died, he had actually previously impregnated when she was a congregant at his church and she got an abortion, which absolutely flipped him out. Yeah. So sources also speculate that he targeted Sandra as a payback. Yeah.
And you still have your Metallica bracelet on, huh? I know. Because all the cool kids keep it on for a couple days. Which cool kids are you talking about? Well, you wouldn't know them, would you? They go to a different concert. All the cool kids where I come from rip it off right away. Yeah, well. Because we're on to the next cool thing. On to the next, on, on to the next. Exactly. You like that? I did. That's a great fucking Jay-Z song. It is. It's so good. Sampled from Justice, the song Dance.
Cool. Do the D-A-N-C-E. It's actually, you want to hear a little interesting fact? Do I want to hear an interesting fact? Dumb question. They're not saying on to the next one. Really? Yeah, they're saying under the spotlight. What? My mind is blown. Yeah. They're saying under the spot, but he, but Swiss Beats made it say on to the next one. He like flipped it. So it's like cut off right at the perfect. Really? That's very interesting. Yeah.
Okay. I'm still going to sing On to the Next. It is, but I'll play Dance by Justice. Cool. Will you dance to it? Under the Stairs, yeah. Under the Spotlight. Children Under the Stairs? Children Under the Stairs.
well, fucking Buffalo Bill. Yeah. Now I know all about it. I knew nothing. Now you know everything. This is, maybe this is also why people like true crime. Cause I, we've gotten a couple of messages. One that I just read that I can't remember who sent it. I'm sorry. Or what they said, but they were like this case that I've heard about.
Seems fascinating. I'd like to know more about it. Oh, I love it. Yeah. It would be my pleasure to tell you more about whatever it is you want to hear about. Yeah. I also, I'm just scrolling through my phone for a hot second because I took a screenshot and I wanted to accommodate this person who sent us a DM and
She wrote, Psychopedia, my dog is not doing so good and I know you guys record on Sundays. Any chance you can send her lots of love? Her name is Sadie and she's almost 15. Her birthday is next month. She needs to get better, so extra love might get her there. Oh, yeah. Sadie, happy birthday, baby girl. Happy birthday, Sadie. Hang in there. Be tough. Your mama needs you. Yeah, maybe you can get some lessons from Lenny on how to live a really long life. Yeah. Lenny is just crushing it.
Like your friend's dog? Yeah. Wow. Yeah, Sadie, we're wishing the same for you, baby. Yeah, exactly. I hope you live twice as long, Sadie. Yeah. Just be the healthiest, oldest dog of all time. Totally. Wonderful. All right, great. That was very nice. Happy birthday, Sadie.
Tony Wormald. I just want to say her name. Oh, yeah. Girl. She's number one. Girl. We adore you. I know you. Yeah. I feel like I know you. Yeah. We need to get to know Tony Wormald a little bit more. She's just all over the place. You comment all the time. You're on Patreon. Thanks, Sinatra. You DM us. Psychopedia, Patreon, DMs. Investigators later, I get DMs. Yeah. And it's a sad day if I don't see your name in my inbox. So thank you for making my day regularly. Yeah. Shout out to Tony Wormald. Yeah.
And to everyone who messages us and just listens and you're part of this journey with us. We love you all. Truly. Yeah. Truly. I'm on the journey with you. Yeah. I'm learning about true crime. Yeah. You're getting into it too. And I'm learning a lot. Good. Alfred play, McDonald triad. Oh, you're just showing off now. I know. I know a couple of things about a couple of things. I'm no investigator. Oh, you're awesome. You know so much. I learn a lot from you too. Yeah. Like that Jay-Z line that you just learned about. You needed to know. Obviously. Yeah.
Well, thank you so much for dragging us through that case. Always a pleasure. Again, I've said it at the end of almost every episode, but you just heard it for the first time the other day. I just processed it the other day. Because you were hungover and in a bad mood.
It was just like the veil of the universe was lifted for some reason with that hangover. This motherfucker's been saying I'm dragging him. Things were way too clear. Yeah. You know? That unhinged episode was... Un-fucking-hinged. It was extra unhinged. The hinges are...
Don't know. Flew up. We got to go to Home Depot. Kool-Aid, man. Yeah. So thank you for listening with us. Thank you for doing all of that hard work on this case. My pleasure. Thank you. And we will see you guys at the next episode. We will. Bye, everyone. Thank you.