Demi Lovato
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It's great to be with my partner, Doug Hendrickson. It's great to be here on a podcast with a remarkable, remarkable advocate, activist, an actress, a singer, songwriter, now director of a remarkable new documentary on Hulu called Child Star, the one and only Demi Lovato. Welcome to Politicking.

And thank you. Thank you so much. It is great to have you. And Doug and I were just talking earlier this morning. We both watched this documentary and I encourage anyone listening to get out on Hulu and watch this documentary. If you care about

issues around mental health. You care about issues associated with fame, with celebrity. You care about just the larger human condition in a world where we're so inundated with social media and we're constantly, constantly being reminded not only of our attributes, but often of our faults and they're reflected back on us. And you took us on a journey of your life and your history in "Child Star"

And you brought in a lot of remarkable figures that are well-known public figures in part of that journey in a remarkable documentary about not only your life, but their life. Tell us a little bit about the documentary and moreover what the inspiration was for it.

Well, the documentary is basically the good, the bad and the ugly of child stardom. You know, this journey of starting this documentary, it was an idea of mine that I had probably about 10 years ago. And I didn't get the ball rolling until about two or three years ago. I just was fascinated with child stardom.

the effects that it has on not only the child star, but their families, you know, what it's like. And obviously I had a personal connection to it being a child star myself. So I wanted to explore this. And that's kind of how the film came about. And you were, the film begins with your own sort of expression of, you know, the celebrity through the sort of lens of looking at Shirley Temple. Mm-hmm.

And saying, you know, one day that could be me. And looking at her life. I mean, you fell into acting at a remarkably early age, right? Yes. I was, my first audition that I ever went on was, I think I was four or five years old. And I ended up booking Barney and Friends when I was about seven years old. And I...

I continued to do commercials and guest starring roles until I booked my first gig on the Disney channel at 14. At 14. Doug, you remember Barney back in the day to drive you crazy? Well, a hundred percent. It's so, I'm so fired up to have you on politic. And I, I've, I probably seen camp rock 300 times with my kids. Um,

Oh, that's amazing. They listen to Skyscraper all the time to get him through problems and issues and whatnot. Demi, the real story is he doesn't watch it with his kids, but that's a whole other conversation. Tell the truth, though. But no, I love the doc. And what's funny, Demi, is, you know, I'm an NFL sports agent, and I can relate so well to it because you also see it in sports. You have so many...

parents and whatnot that are getting these kids in early and earlier, more than I've ever seen before, and getting them in early, almost like the entertainment business. Because I think that there's that situation where they want fame, they want fortune, and these kids are thrown into it. And they're going to private lessons, and they're going to camps, and they're going to all these different things. And I can see it so much of what you went through on the sports lens now, now more than ever in that world.

Wow, that's so interesting. I've never thought of it from that perspective. But, you know, it is it does take up your entire life when you are pursuing a career in any of these outlets, whether it be through acting or singing or sports. Yeah, it's definitely that's a really interesting perspective.

I never thought of it like that. And it's interesting. With sports, we see it. I mean, you see these parents on the sideline and you wonder, is it the parents that wish they were on the field or is it the kids that wish on the field? For you, was there that sort of dialectic? I mean, did you feel pushed into acting? Did your parents or role models push you?

push you or was it something that you were dragging them to support? Well, what's interesting is my mom used to be a country singer and she opened up for, I think it was Reba McEntire and George Strait and Hank Williams Jr. And she, you know, was always singing in the house. And so I grew up around music and, you know, when I saw Shirley Temple on TV, I thought,

If she can do it, I want to do it. And so I really was the one that was pushing my parents to help me pursue this. And, you know, it was...

Yeah, was I around music a lot and was influenced by my mom? Of course. But I really think that I was the one that was pushing. Do you remember the moment that you felt like a star, you felt like a celebrity, where you went, whoa, something's different? Yes. I was, I think I was about 14 or 15. I had just shot Camp Rock, but it hadn't come out yet. And the way that things were at the time, I

like blogging and tabloid sites, people already knew that I was Mitchie from Camp Rock. And so I had a little buzz around me going, but like I wasn't super familiar. I hadn't witnessed anything in my career yet. The movie hadn't come out. I wasn't aware of my, I guess,

up and coming stature or status. And there was a moment where I went to visit a friend at an autograph signing. He had been on Hannah Montana and was doing an autograph signing and somebody screamed like, ah, like that. And I was like, you looked around and was like, oh my gosh, what's going on? You know, scared. And they said, it's Demi Lovato. And I was like,

what? Like me? And that was the moment that I realized my life was going to change forever. And I imagine that felt great at the moment, right? Yeah, it did feel good. It felt really good because it felt like all the hard work had finally paid off in that moment. And I met my first fan, essentially. You know, I...

I didn't have the movie. The movie wasn't out yet. And I was blown away that she even knew my name. Um, but yeah, it was like meeting my first fan. It was really a cool experience. Well,

Well, Demi, it's fascinating because I think everybody in the public viewpoints, you know, views your life and any celebrity's life as, you know, champagne and roses every day. But they don't understand the loneliness and the stuff you guys go through. And now so much of social media, you know, when you're walking through somewhere, nobody wants to, hey, Demi, how are you doing? How's everything going? I love your movie. They want a picture.

they want a selfie that they can put on Instagram or social media. Nobody really wants to know how you're doing. Or they ask you questions. All they want to bust through the crowd to get to know you or meet you and get a picture. And that's all I want. It's so bad.

You know what's interesting is when people say, I hate to bother you, but... Sorry to bother you, but I'm going to ask for an autograph anyways, or a picture. Now it's pictures. But, you know, it's interesting. It's like this weird dynamic between celebrity and, you know, people who aren't celebrities where they want something from you and they think they know you, but they don't. And I assume that you know exactly what this is like, you know, being in...

the position that you're in. - But I think with your journey, it's so powerful and poignant at the same time because you have that sort of rush, which you talked about of recognition.

But you also in the documentary, I remember at one point you were talking about looking out on the audience and I guess you were singing at the time and you saw an empty seat. Yes. And you felt this vulnerability. Yes. It still happens. And that somehow I'm not good enough. Yes. Why is there an empty seat? Yes. I remember performing at a concert not too far back a couple of years ago. I think I was in Dubai and I, and I saw empty seats and the audience and I,

I was on stage and it took me out of the present moment of performing for my fans because I thought,

oh, I'm not good enough to have sold this place out. And it was really discouraging. But, you know, that's just something that I've come to accept that you're not always going to sell out every arena that you play. And that's okay. It doesn't mean that you are not, you know, a valuable human being worthy of love and acceptance. You know, that's,

But when I was younger, I confused the two. I confused my brand with who I was. Therefore, I equated, you know, validation, outside validation with self-worth, which was really unhealthy. And I think a lot of young people in the entertainment industry, and especially now on social media, I think they deal with that too. What's, I thought, so wonderful, and Doug, chime in, because this was in our conversation, it was how honest and raw

you've been about your own journey and your own anxieties, your own securities that are universally shared. This sort of imposter syndrome, never feeling good enough, having initial early success, being challenged by that and looking for validation externally as opposed to internally.

When did you decide to be so expressive and honest? Was there a sort of point or was it a bottoming out where you just felt, I have to sort of come out of my shell. It's time for me to sort of let it all out. I've pretty much always been vulnerable with my fan base. I was bullied in middle school and I decided to be an advocate for anti-bullying when I was 18.

probably about 15, 16 years old. And by the way, just on that, just forgive me for cutting out, but it wasn't just that they were doing a suicide petition. Yeah, it was really bad. It was a next level bully. It was really bad. And so I, I wanted to be outspoken for people who had been bullied in school themselves. And, and,

I think the point where I realized I needed to be vulnerable with everyone was I had a—it was my first time in treatment. I went to treatment when I was 18 for mental health issues and an eating disorder. And I remember my manager, you know, saying to me,

How do you want to navigate this? Do you want to keep it private and not share your experience with people and just kind of

brush it under the rug? Or do you want to use this as an opportunity to be, you know, inspiration to others? And I thought, well, if I can help people, then that's what I want to do. And so I've always, I've decided to, that was like a turning point in my life and career where I thought being vulnerable, if it helps people, that's what I want to do.

But I imagine there had to be some pushback too. You may have had some, or were all the people around you saying, that's, go for that. Because there's always that friction between, you know, you're going to be, you're taking a big risk here. Yeah. You may be sacrificing this sort of persona, which is what we're selling to the public. Even in, you had some amazing interviews, Jojo and others, and, you know, just in terms of,

own sexual identity and issues like that and potentially how that could impact one's career. But was that part of a discussion or was it just when you heard that in that conversation, like, let's do this? I'm pretty stubborn when I, you know, or headstrong when I set my mind to something. That's what I do. And that's what I did as I decided to be outspoken about what I had been through because I knew that it could

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Well, Demi, I appreciate your brutal honesty. I mean, it's funny. Gavin and I are a lot older than you. He's a little bit more older than me. Really? Happy birthday, by the way, last week. I remember back in high school, my dad died. And back then...

There was no counselors even available to, hey, go talk to this counselor. It wasn't talked about. And you fast forward now, our partner, Marshawn Lynch, he was the tough guy in the NFL and he was the guy that ran over people and whatnot. But his last press conference, he said to all the young people in the NFL and athletes, take care of your chicken and take care of your mentals. And people are like, what? And it was so poignant. Take care of your chicken, take care of your money,

and take care of your mentals. And that's the first time a pro athlete has really talked about the mental health game. And this was really five years ago.

And so since five years, every NFL team now has their mental health coach. You sports has mental health coaches. It's now really gone fast forward since Marshawn said that. And for him to say that was big because that kind of changed the culture in sports where he could come out and say that. And you did the same thing in the entertainment business. So kudos to you because it's a real thing. And people just, they don't understand it. But when he says it and you say it, people listen.

Well, we're human. Bottom line is we're all human. And even though we are put in positions that are where we're under a magnifying glass for millions of people, at the end of the day, we're human and we deal with mental health issues just like everyone else. And so it's important that

that we talk about this because so many people can be helped by it. - Demi, how does, like, if you were to have kids and do this, how do you navigate

the, you know, the child stardom because, you know, nowadays with athletes that come out at 1920 and you're trying to preach financial literacy and education and whatnot to them, but you're now doing this with families who have kids and the whole, the thing just starts sooner and sooner. If you were to do it all over again, what advice would you give yourself and or family now with a young child that wants to get in the entertainment business or music and kind of get rolling?

I think first and foremost, if I could give myself any advice, give my younger self any advice, one of the main things I would tell my younger self would be it's okay to take breaks. Taking breaks was something that I didn't think was feasible in my career because I didn't want to lose the momentum of my career. And so I think taking breaks is really important.

And for me, I don't know the answer to that question because I don't have kids yet. I do want to have kids. And I think that when I do have kids, I want to... One, I want to say no social media until you're 16, which I...

I know people might say, well, good luck with that. But I can try. I can dream. And, you know, if they came to me and said, I want a career in the entertainment industry, I would say wait until you're 18. Just because I didn't have...

Right.

And then when you're 18, you can go full force. But that's what I want to do with my kids. And I think the movie expresses that beautifully just through the lives of Drew Barrymore and her own experiences. I mean, it's always, you know, people read about it. It's one thing to hear Drew talk about at 11 years old.

using substances. It's, you know, to hear the stories of all these other young child stars that all, they lost their childhood in some respects. They also had something in common, which I thought was so interesting, this notion of disassociation, quite literally sort of being disassociated from their environment. And there's almost this blur in terms of their own experiences and lived life. Yeah. Yeah.

So something that, you know, I came to learn after talking to the participants in the film was, like you said, this common thread of disassociation, which I personally believe is, uh,

While fame can be a privilege, I think that it also can be very traumatic, especially to minors. And I think that the disassociation was probably a direct trauma response to the fame and the pressure that was put on all of us as young child performers. Were any of those conversations in the documentary surprising to you, more revelatory? I mean, these are old relationships, people that you worked with.

there was a lot of honest exchange too. Yes. Apologies. Yes. How way people felt treated. Yes. The interactions. Also a lot of love. You had that wonderful conversation with your co-star about running to the bathroom. You talked about an eating disorder. Yeah. And she saw you purging and you were expecting to be judged. Instead, you were embraced. Yes, I was embraced. Allison is...

Just such an incredible person. And they're an advocate as well for kids in the industry. And yeah, I...

There were apologies that needed to be made because I didn't treat people the way that I do now. You know, I would like to think that I'm a different person than I was when I was 17 because I was struggling so much inside with those mental health issues that we talked about. You know, because I was struggling, I didn't... I wasn't the most respectful to everyone around me. And so growing up, you know, I just...

I had to learn, I learned that I was suffering and that, you know, it was, I learned that I was suffering and I had to make amends to those people that I didn't treat the best. I love that. Hey Demi, you know, Drew Barrymore is obviously always been an icon and I don't know, did you know her much before the doc? And then is there other people you latched onto in regards to just your story and your life that's been a mentor to you or someone that you've been kind of going through the struggle with?

Um, you know, there hasn't been, um, I haven't had like a lot of mentors in my life. I've had people that I've, uh, been close to and I've, I've learned from, but there, I didn't really grow up with a mentor, um, in the industry, which I wish that I had. It would have provided a lot of wisdom that I feel like I could have used at, um,

15, 16, 17 years old. Even now, I'd love to have a mentor. I didn't have one. But I did know Drew prior to her working on this film with me. I had done her show several times. So I did know her and we were in communication about the film prior to us sitting down and talking. And I was just so grateful for her wisdom and experience and what she had to share with us.

You know, Doug and I have between us, he's got three kids, I've got four. He's got two daughters, I have two daughters.

I couldn't agree with you more on the, till 16, I failed. I got till 14, Doug. I mean, but I just, I can't even imagine everything you went through and the struggles. And, you know, you were the, I mean, you were right there in the vanguard when it was sort of that, you mentioned Hannah Montana. There was this, this Disney's blowing up and Nickelodeon gets into the picture and they're blowing up a little bit differently. You talked to Kenan Thompson in this documentary about that.

But social media now and content creators and YouTube-ification and the JoJo comment where she's posting 240 posts a day about her life. I mean, it does feel like we're drinking from a fire hose as parents, but I can't even imagine as children, as young girls in particular, how overwhelming this moment must feel as well. It must be so difficult. I mean, it was difficult for me to grow up

uh social media was just beginning when i was you know 12 13 years old um myspace was a thing there was a yeah you know a couple other blogging sites that were a thing but remember ass jeeves no one remembers that i do remember yeah right now it's kind of the chat gpt of its era like ass jeeves you're old you're old

I am old. Demi remembered that too. I did. Am I old? No, you're not old. Thank you. Clap back. But yeah, there was, you know, the pressure to look a certain way and to, yeah, it was mainly the pressure to look a certain way that was put on a lot of us at that young age. And now

you know, people on social media are dealing with that all over again. Prior to, I believe that like

One of the most triggering things to me was when I grew up, there were all of these, they called it the heroin chic look. You know, the very frail, model-y look. And, you know, when my body was changing, I got very confused and was like, why don't I look like them? And I developed an eating disorder. And I just have to wonder how many of...

how many people are doing the same with the beauty standards today that are enforced through social media and it's

It's really troublesome. No question. And not only that, Demi, the sad thing is, and it's not just for sports entertainment, it's business, it's real estate. Everybody's taught now you got to build your brand. You got to build your brand. And no one even knows what that means. But now it's building your brand in everyone's eyes is building content, being social media followers, likes,

TikTok videos. That's all the brand is nowadays. And so people are consumed now with trying to do that. And to your point and your point, Gavin, with our kids even, is that they're all trying to do this. And it's like, wait a minute. If you're the best at what you do, a la you or Marshawn in football, your brand's going to be built. You can't force a brand.

You can't create a brand if you're not really worthy of that brand. But so many people now in every industry think, I can create the brand on my own vis-a-vis social media, and they're going to flame out quickly. It's a real bad recipe for disaster.

And it's sad because you're right, Gavin, we have kids the same age and best friends that they deal with this, but that's what everybody in life teaches. You go on social media, hey, how to build your brand in real estate in five ways, how to build your brand in this. And it's a bunch of bullshit. It's really bad, but that's the world we live in now. I would love to just see so many young people just go outside and put their feet in the grass. You know, get off social media and just...

try to be present, like live in the present moment. I'd love to see kids playing outside rather than on their phones or on YouTube. It's kind of a...

you know, a pipe dream, but... No, I mean, you go to restaurants now and you see a five-year-old on their iPad with the rest of the family, or worse, you see five family members and every single one of them at dinner, they've ordered, they don't even realize they're eating and they haven't talked to one another because they're all on their iPhones or on their devices. But it's, I mean, this is serious stuff. And it also connects, Doug, to what you asked Demi a moment ago and the work and the advocacy you have done. And I was honored to

to be able to sign a bill that you've been advocating for for some time. And I wanna bring us back before I talk about the bill we just signed to a different time in the 1920s and very famous at the time, perhaps the most famous child actor, Jackie Coogan, back in the chaplain days. And Coogan was a phenom, made a fortune,

Mm-hmm. But was left with what? Nothing. With nothing. Mm-hmm. Because he wasn't protected. Right. And they created a law in California called Coogan's Law. Mm-hmm. Which did what, basically? It takes a percentage of your money and puts it in a trust so that when you turn 18, you know, you have this...

amount of money that hasn't been touched by anyone. And it's all yours when you were, you, you were a beneficiary, I assume of that in California. Well, um, they had it in, I believe they have it in Texas and I had it in Texas and for the Barney days. Yeah. And then, uh, yes, when I came out to California to work on Disney. And I thought the only reason I'm bringing this up, it's interesting when you talk to Kenan Thompson,

And he didn't have that because he was in Florida. Right. And they didn't have the benefits of that law. And so he talks about in your documentary going from regs to riches to regs. Yeah. Because he wasn't protected. Thus, the law we just signed that you've been advocating for in a recognition of this journey for child stars and content creators. We just amended in California with your advocacy and your leadership.

Coogan's Law to include content creators to associate it with all online contributions kids are making to make sure we put aside money in a trust that will be there for them when they turn 18. Yes. Yes. You have to think about, you know, there's so many...

There's so much money being made on social media and how many, you have to think about how many kids are unboxing toys or they're on TikTok or they're in their family vlogging videos. Is that Ryan kid? Is that? Yeah, Ryan's world. Doug, you've seen this guy, Ryan? Yes. He's one of the, I mean. Tens of millions of dollars. Yeah. I mean, we're going to end up working for this kid. But I mean, he's still a kid, but he's a perfect example. YouTube sensation. Yeah.

And, you know, I mean, I assume his parents are taking care of him. I don't know. I don't want to judge. But now they have to. Now they have to. On the basis of the law we just signed. Yes, which is incredible. And I'm so grateful that you signed that into law.

No, well, I'm grateful for you. And in a big part, again, I'm sorry to keep bragging on this damn documentary. I'm serious. Oh, no, go for it. Honestly, you should be so proud of it because you highlight this and you highlight this inequity, but it's also about parents too. And I thought it was really interesting. And Doug and I are old friends with Chris Columbus, a good Bay Area kid who's the best. I'm so glad he was in. One of the great directors of our time and, you know, did, yeah,

Home Alone and obviously the first few Harry Potters. But you talked to him and it was interesting in the documentary, he talked about casting not just kids. But the family. Yeah, casting parents, casting the broader family members. Yeah, so I guess what had happened when Home Alone blew up was that nobody predicted the success that it would have.

You know, with Harry Potter, you kind of, you had an inkling because of how huge the books were. But with Home Alone, you didn't, they didn't know that the film was going to be as big as it was. And Macaulay Culkin became a huge star overnight. But he didn't cast the family. He casted

Macaulay Culkin. And so I guess there was, there was a lot of turmoil, family turmoil. And, and so moving forward, he talked about casting the family so that, you know, it would provide a good environment for the child when they, you know, blew up. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's, it's so, and I just, it goes to that whole issue of parents, you

And the pressure that kids must feel and the pressure of the parents. I'm sure you've seen it with a lot of your co-stars over the years, some very active parents that were pretty, I imagine, some very aggressive, some unbelievably loving and supportive. Yeah, you know, it's interesting because when I was growing up, we were always taught that the easier you are to work with, the more jobs you get. And a part of that came with

my mom being easy to work with. And so she was very, you know, she wanted to be easy to work with so that I would have more jobs. The whole parents, and Doug goes back to the point you were making just about sports and how parents are living their lives through their kids and the pressure that places on the kids at the same time. Mm-hmm.

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With more pet-friendly domestic violence shelters, survivors and their pets can escape and heal together. Visit Purina.com slash purple to get involved. Hey, Demi, let me ask you a question. When this bill came to mind for you, was it just, was this been the years in the making or what, what, what inspires you to say, you know what, I want to create this bill and I want to figure out how to do it. And then the steps you had to take to actually get it on the governor's desk.

Well, I didn't create this bill. The way that I found out about this bill was through an activist named Chris McCarty, who I met while making the film. And they told me about this bill. They had actually been working on legislation that tried to get passed in Washington and Washington state. And, you know, so that's where I first came. That's how I first heard of this bill. And

And yeah, I basically, I went on Fallon and I said, Gavin, you got to sign this. She was attacking me, Doug, on Fallon. She's saying, this Newsom guy, we're going to track him down. And I think Fallon also said, Newsom's watching or something. I'm like, Jesus, this is next level pressure. We had to get,

You got it. I'm like, oh my God, I got all these phone calls. You get attacked a lot, Gavin, so it's par for the course. No, this was a no-brainer. And by the way, there's a component part of this, Doug, as well, which is interesting, is if parents that are also monetizing their kids, that are doing a lot of the vlogging and they're doing some of the creation work,

But if they use their kids and their content more than 30% of the time, they have to take 65% of those earnings and put in them trust now as well. So we're trying to protect not just for the children, but also some of the exploitation that may occur in some instances, not all the time, where the parents are frankly taking advantage of those kids' earnings and using the kid as content and not rewarding those kids when they're 18. Yeah.

I mean, this is incredible. Yeah, it's a beautiful thing, Gavin. Again, it goes back to education, financial literacy, and all that. So Demi, what's next for you? Do you see yourself going back on a tour and selling out arenas? Do you have more docs in the works? More TV shows? What's inspiring you the next few years? Acting, directing, singing, whatever. I mean, seriously? I got a lot going on.

You got a lot going on. Now you're activists on mental health. There's three of us in the podcast. We could use a fourth. You might want to join our politics and podcasts. Well, you got to have a podcast. Everyone has a podcast. I used to have a podcast. See, there you go. Yeah, I used to. And then it...

I don't know what happened with it. But I moved on to directing. That's what happened. You moved on to directing. Yeah, so I've got a lot going on. But how many albums you've done? You've done like eight albums or something? I've actually done, I believe it's, this next album will be my 10th.

So I've worked on quite a few. Yeah. And the genre keeps changing, but the old pop and then it kind of, is it go with your sort of age of, is your mindset? I mean, but you keep changing your style a little bit. I keep changing my style. I like to keep it fresh. Yeah. You know. So the next one, reggae or something? What do you got? What's the 10? I don't know. You'll have to wait and see. Oh, geez.

What is it coming out? I don't know when I'm working. I'm just in the studio right now. So it'll come out when it, when it's ready. But I do, I will have a movie coming out next year or at some point, I don't know exactly when it comes out, but it's called toe and I'm very excited about it. It's an independent film and I play a,

pregnant non-binary person. Yes. And the movie is about this woman who gets her car stolen and then towed, but she was living out of her car. And we go on the journey of trying to

fight for her car back. And along the way, she meets me, who happens to be pregnant at the time, and we meet in the homeless shelter. Familiar themes. Familiar themes. I can't tell you how much I appreciate you and your story. I mean, you've lived 10 lives at an early age, and you really have. And you're an incredible mentor to these younger kids and younger generations. And there needs to be more of you that are going to help out, speak out,

get around bills that help these kids out and whatnot, but you have so much to give and so much to offer. And it's just really inspiring what you're doing because it's needed more. And hopefully what you're doing will lead to other people doing more things as well, because

you know, you are the hope of this generation going forward. We need people like you to keep tackling these issues and keep fighting and battling and being honest. And everything you've done has been a really, really inspiration of who you are as a person, what you've gone through. Can't even imagine. I didn't grow up that way either to Gavin, but it's really cool to see where you're at today and what you have in front of you. Thank you. Well, I'm hoping that this

now law. Yeah. Yeah, I'm hoping that this sets the precedent for other states and hopefully becomes a federal policy.

It's law as well. Beyond me. I mean, we say about it in your business and in life, generally success leaves clues. It's the power of emulation. Once you can prove something as opposed to assert something, that it works, that it's sound, that it's viable, then invariably it will be replicated and scaled elsewhere. And I think Coogan's Law was a perfect example of that. They came out of California decades ago, and now it's just natural and long overdue that we've expanded it.

But look, as we close, I just want to build a little bit on what Doug said. The issue of mental health is the issue of our time. If there's any unity agenda that unites everybody in more ways and more days, it's the issue of how people are feeling. And it's incredibly powerful for someone with your power, your presence, your reach, and your connection to our kids.

I mean, I told my kids that we were coming on to see you and they immediately lit up. We got to go out of school. We got to come down. We got to see her. But the fact you can reach them. But with this kind of honesty and transparency, it's not an exaggeration. Quite literally, as you suggested earlier, it can and it does save lives. So yeah.

Kudos to you. Thank you. And maybe more important than anything else, that's the kind of way to live with that kind of status, a celebrity's fleeting of a purpose and meaning and mission. Yes. That's what it's like. Yes. When people ask me, you know, what would you tell to young child stars today is,

One, take breaks. But two, I would also say that, you know, fame, fortune is fleeting, just like you said. And what's most important is meaningful, the meaningful connections in your life. And because the family and friends are what's going to be there when everything else fades.

and yourself, your mental health. - And we are all on borrowed time, Demi, and we must live life every day to the fullest, 'cause the borrowed time may run out soon. So we gotta live it and have fun doing it. Right, partner? - As the Stoics used to say, "Momento mori." You gotta remember, I mean, it's this thing, we all exit the same way. So it's the same precious moment of life. And so it is, it's not, as Seneca said,

that we don't have that much time in life is that we tend to waste so much of it on things that don't matter and not essential. And so, as you say, it's about family, it's about relationships, and it's finding something more important than yourself. And I think what I love about, and just closing, Demi, is I think that's so...

so self-evident in your journey and in this documentary, Child Star, where you really go through that journey of self-exploration. And it's a journey that's so familiar because it's the human journey. And that's why, again, this film is so much more important than it appears. It's not just about...

It's not just about celebrity. It's about who we are and it's about uncovering who we can be when we're fully expressive. So really grateful to have you on this podcast and thank you for being on the journey you're on and being part of our show. Thank you so much. Thank you both for having me. Yeah, Demi, our politic and pod listener podcast is loving what this show is all about and we appreciate you joining us and keep doing what you're doing. Thank you so much. Thank you. Demi Lovato, everybody. Thank you.

I think...

Yeah.

There's always a benefit in talking to someone because we can all benefit from improved insight about ourselves and who we are and how we behave with other people. So if you're human, that's like a good indicator that you could benefit from talking to somebody. Find out if therapy is right for you. Visit BetterHelp.com today. That's BetterHelp.com.

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