A Menendez Brothers Update & Taking a Punch With Sarah Silverman
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Man, what's happening, man? You got Marshawn beast mode Lynch. Doug Hendrickson. And Gavin Newsom, and you're listening to Politico. So, Gavin, I saw the recent Menendez stuff with the DA. I actually just finished watching the six-part series on Netflix called

What's your thoughts? Well, it's interesting. I met with the team that put that series together about nine months ago and they gave me a heads up. They said, watch, see what happens after this series is released because it's going to generate a lot more conversation around whether or not these guys should be released or resentenced. And here we are, fast track, not so many months later. But one thing,

is crystal clear. This is what I do for a living every week, including no BS. Literally today, we go through all the parole board recommendations. I was working on pardons independent of the Menendez brothers and commutations today as well, particularly this time of year around Thanksgiving. It's not atypical for a governor to do that. And obviously, the team has done a lot of research and analysis of what

the DA's decision means it doesn't mean. Obviously, it has to go back to the courts, or at least the DA is asking for resentencing, which has to be approved by independent court. And then the question is, if they approve eligibility, then it goes to the parole board, and then ultimately will go to me for a decision either to reject the parole board, send it back what we call en banc,

or to approve the recommendation. - Well, Gavin, I'm not the DA or the attorney or anybody else, but like I said, if I have daughters and a son, and I think back in those days when he talked about sexual stuff, no one thought it could happen to kids. And if that was all true,

then, hey, you know what? They did what they did. They had to. And they paid their price for the crime. And they should be out. And the rest is history. But it's a powerful story. I remember it like it was yesterday when I watched the trial when I was a kid. And they've done 30-some-odd years. And like I said, if the facts are true, what happened? Nothing.

then let him out. You know, it's interesting. I think when we think about our lives, I mean, I think our parents would remember, you know, Manson as an indelible thing. But for us, I think it was OJ and the Menendez brothers, which were so much part of the narrative of our lives. And there was such high profile cases. Maybe Scott Peterson would even fall into that

category. But here we are. It's a hell of a thing. I mean, there's been so many. You've probably seen half of them. I haven't. Because you've been talking about the Menendez brothers for years and years, as long as I've known you. Because there's been documentaries, there's been series that have been done. But no doubt what Ryan Murphy did with this series really lit things up. I think social media has lit things up. I don't know about you, but I'll tell you, I can't even tell you how many times

My kids online have said, hey, what's going on with the Menendez brothers? I'm like, how the hell do you know about the Menendez brothers? Because it's really lit up TikTok and Instagram and the chat rooms. And as a consequence, the conversations are, you're right, about conversations we didn't really have when we were kids about sexual assault and violence.

conversations around sentencing. Uh, but look, I don't, none of that stuff for me matters. What matters are the facts. What matter, what matters is justice and fairness, not treating them any worse because they're celebrities, not treating them certainly any better because they're celebrities. Uh,

but the DA looked at the facts. He at least made his own assessment and feels like they should be resentenced 34 years, um, uh, for murder. Now it's a double murder. Um, you know, I've seen people 25 years, uh, be released, um, uh, not for double murders necessarily, but single murders. Uh, and this is obviously some new compelling, uh, evidence that was introduced. And so we'll see where the judge goes. Well, in closing, Gavin, I appreciate everyone's thoughts, uh, energy, uh,

into this because these are never easy, uh, in regards to, uh, all levels of, uh, victims and, and families and things like that. So I applaud everyone's thought, uh, in this process from the attorneys to, uh,

the media to again, the Ryan Murphy and, and everybody looking at this thing at its best, because that should be the way it is. Not only just with the men that Menendez, but anybody who's been involved in something that needs a second look. Yeah, no, this is a, one thing we do is is California is always about second looks process and, and justice. But at the end of the day, to your point, it's about the families. It's about the,

uh, victims and, uh, and, you know, to the extent that there are family members that are supporting their release, uh, that's something you consider. And I'll tell you one thing just may not be familiar with everybody that's listening. One of the things that's perhaps the most determinative when you come up to the parole board process is what kind of prisoner have you been? Uh, have you been focused on your rehabilitation? Have you taken responsibility for, uh, your crime? Uh,

And whether you're coming out more of a broken person or you're coming out as a better person, and all that is also determinative. So any assessment that we make, I imagine that the judge and the resentencing will also look very, very, certainly the parole board will, is look at the in-prison conduct.

over the course of the last 34 years? Did they invest in their own rehabilitation? Have they committed to being better people outside those prison walls? And all those things, again, are compounding and considered in the context of whether or not to move forward and support a recommendation if they're approved by the parole board. Well, you got a busy couple weeks, Gavin. Get after it.

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Hey, guys, we have our incredible guest. Doug, why don't you introduce Ms. Silverman? Well, hey, listen, Sarah, this is an honor for me because you are a rock star. And for the Politic and Podcast listeners, our incredible guest is a two-time Emmy-winning comedian, actress, writer, the host of her own unbelievable podcast called The Sarah Silverman Podcast, currently on tour with the Postmortem Tour. Nice.

And she is one of the funniest people I've ever met, seen, listened to. And we want to welcome Sarah Silverman. Thank you, Sarah. Well, thank you, everybody.

Good morning, Sarah. How are you? I'm great. I was just listening to y'all's podcast. Uh-oh. I want to come up with a theme song for Politiken. Oh, shit. Politiken. You freestyle, too? Yeah, I'm very, very good. Watch this. Come on and listen to Politiken. Don't be a chicken. Don't be a chicken. You call that bars? I don't.

I mean, I got your ad-libs, so however you go, we gonna make this shit work, mama. You hear me? You keep spitting that shit, and I'm a carrier. I got your ad-libs. Marshawn, I'm such a big fan. I saw Bottoms on a plane. Oh, shit. And came home and immediately watched it again. That movie was the best movie of the year. Really? I think, like, I don't get why it...

To me, it should be seen as like changing comedy, like moving comedy forward, like the way Superbad was or something like that is a teen movie that is like,

right on the cusp of where comedy is now. I just, I thought it was. First of all, uh, thank you. And I appreciate that. And to the young ladies that I worked with over there, uh, you know, I told him, thank you for, you know, giving me that opportunity, but we was up for two awards for, uh, uh, for that in the Indy, um, uh, film awards. Oh, a spirit award. Yeah. The best, uh,

The best movie and then I was nominated for like the new artist or new actor shit, something like that. It was the new actor shit. Yeah. Yeah, the new actor shit. However that shit worked. But it was cool though.

But I appreciate the love, though. That's big. Sarah, what do you say the new comedy? I mean, are you serious that it's like, I mean, it sort of expresses itself in a different way? I mean, is comedy evolving in real or it's always evolving? Yeah, it's always evolving. It has to change to survive. I mean, listen, as someone who's been around for a while, you can go, if you existed in

10, 15, 20, 25 years ago, it's hard to not be in trouble for things. You know what I mean? If you were like irreverent back then, you're fucked today. But,

You're not. You're still around. But I think it's important. It's a kind of microcosm of really what all people should be doing, which is growing and changing. And you learn new stuff. And you're, like, embarrassed. You cringe at the old you. And you're reborn as the new you. And you have to find ways to be funny within those parameters. But, I mean, like, I think, and I bet maybe it's this way with sports or politics or agentism. Yeah.

But like boundaries or like, yeah, like limits can be can help even though you fight them because they force you to figure out something within those limits and you end up liking it better, even if it's like the worst executive note.

or something, you're like, this guy doesn't even fucking get it. But then you address the note in a way that you love and it's even better. Like, you know how limits can be, they can help sometimes, you know? - But Sarah, I totally agree. The bottoms, it's funny, there's kids now that come up to me and say, hey, is that the guy from Bottoms?

and is not, hey, is that Marshawn, the famous player? It's Bottoms. And I saw it in the theater as well, and I'm like, dude, this fucking guy is really funny. I've always known Marshawn's funny. I've been an agent for 20 years. But he was really funny. The movie was legitimately off the charts good. It's a fearless movie, and it's not just like, you don't go like, oh, that's a girls' comedy or something because it's mostly girls or the leads are girls. You don't even think about that. It's just hardcore funny. Yeah, for real. And they were amazing.

They was great to work with. And I mean, you know, they body of work. After that, I mean, I see I keep up with them. Ayo, Debra, well, I know her for she was like a little comedian, you know, and now she's... They all good. So I was, so I remember, so I played a trick on myself because I had a, what is it called? A monologue.

Yes, you did. So I'm like, oh, shit. I ain't never did no shit like this before. So I, you know, I mean, I'm going around talking to all of the cast members like, hey, yeah, so how you do this shit? And they're like, oh, yeah. So I'm stressing like, oh, man, I don't know if I'm be able to do it. And so we get to set and I'm like, no, you'll be all right. If in doubt, just do your own shit. And I was like, what? You trust me enough to do that? She like,

I don't know, but we're going to figure it out together. I'm like, oh, shit. So the first one I just was doing some bullshit. I just talk. She's like, no, that was great. Do it again. And then I was just able to recite the actual lines. And she likes, oh, you did a word for word type shit. She like, now, can you do both? Can you just hit these key points and then just do your other shit?

I'm like, all right, let's give it a try. And I think that's the one that they actually went with. So, yeah, I mean, that was really helpful, especially, you know what I mean? Because that was, at the time, that was the biggest thing I have done so far. So, you know what I mean? It helped me, I mean, get comfortable in a sense where there's some shit I ain't never did before. But something that I told him that my uncle used to always tell me is,

Come on, let's go drink some Hennessy and do some shit we ain't never done before. And then we start pushing them limits. We start pushing them limits and making that box that they put us in a little bit bigger. So, yeah. But to see that, you know, people, you know, outside of just the sports world actually, you know, tell me I did a good job. Yeah.

I mean, that shit is helpful. That shit is big. So thank you, young lady. Yeah. I mean, your instincts are great. You know, some people, it's just they've got the instincts and that they, you know, and a lot of times, you know,

What gets people in their head about acting is like, oh, I'm not doing this right. Or I'm not. Everyone else has done this longer. But everyone has just only done it. Everyone's had their first time. And also just to not get in your own way and trust that just, you know. Yeah, fuck it. Yeah, because right now, I'm shooting a movie right now. And this was the first time that I had a table read.

So I didn't know what the fuck to expect. And I think I'm the only person on the table read, like everybody reading their lines and shit, like what's on the page. And I'm just talking shit. So after the table read, the director come up to me. I was like, you did this before, huh? I'm like, hell no. He like, man, that shit was great.

and all of the other cast members like how did you know to do that i'm like i didn't y'all just made me hella nervous all these people sitting around just looking at me read like reading ain't my strong point you know i mean i was a special resource kid so i'm a slow reader too but you know when you're a slow reader you're sometimes a really thorough reader that's what i like to think because i'm a really slow labored reader

And I like the way you put that. By the way, Sarah, and you've got I heard that you had some technique the last time you were reciting some lines. You had some earpiece or something. Someone was I mean, this is my son. This may be a pro tip from Sarah. She had someone in her ear literally giving her the line, the next lines. It was myself. Well, I had to audition for that movie Maestro, and it was like a nine page monologue.

There's not a world where I'm going to learn that in a few days and put it on. So I just, I read it and read it and read it and read it and read it. And then I record it and then I put it, I got a sound guy who had an earwig, put it in my ear. I put it in my ear and I recorded like this, you know, so you just saw the side and then I press play and I would say the lines, you know, I hear myself say the line and then I say the line and I'm pretty good at listening while I'm talking, you know,

So I just did that and it looked like I learned the whole thing. And the truth is with acting, it doesn't matter how you do it. I could paste my lines onto the forehead of the guy who's off camera that I'm talking to. It doesn't matter if it looks real. That's all that matters.

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Comics, 100% of the time, being funny is there. We all, as kids, we learn survival skills that get us through childhood alive.

And they don't always serve us in adulthood. Then we have to try to unlearn that stuff. But with comics, we just we had to become funny to survive, you know, kind of. And then it helps in our lives. But there's probably certain things to unlearn that would make us healthier. A lot of comics don't want to go to therapy or anything because they they don't want to get well because they worry it will make them not funny like this.

Well, it was funny, Gavin, unlike you and I, who have four, four kids and three kids, and we teach our kids not to swear. Sarah's dad was infamous and saying, hey, listen, I want you to swear. And didn't didn't he teach you how to swear at a young age and what to say? You know, he's just one of those like dads who thought it would be hilarious to teach his little kid swears. And then I did. He would have me yell them out like we were at the market.

And and then I I felt the one thing I remember, you know, I was like three, but I remember feeling like all this approval from all these grownups, despite themselves, like they they didn't want to, but they were laughing in it.

It made my arms itch with glee, you know, I wanted more and I could see how I kind of got addicted to like shock humor. And that's definitely what I was doing in the beginning of my career, especially. And how did it get formalized? When did you actually get up on stage in front of strangers and start to realize you had a path?

Well, I went to this high school that they had assemblies, you know, like in bottoms. And on Mondays and Fridays, and every once in a while, they'd let me do like two minutes of jokes, you know. And my math teacher, he encouraged me, I was able to, instead of messing up, interrupting the whole class, I had one joke that I could tell at the beginning of every class, and then I had to be quiet.

And, and then between my junior and senior year of high school, I went to summer school in Boston. And that's the first time I did an open mic.

And then I moved to New York when I graduated and that was that. What was it? Did you have any particular, was there, what was it? I mean, those math jokes where they mean just dad jokes back then, or were they insightful? Probably joke book jokes. Was you more like freestyle? Like, shit, I'm going to just get up here. Or was this something like you read up, you written out? Sometimes it was like a joke book or something or like some from a comedy album, but like

When I would go up at assemblies, I would do jokes about the students and the teachers and stuff. Oh, so you'd be roasting. Yeah. Yeah. Get on my head. That's what I'll be doing to my kids, too. Gavin and Doug, I'll be busting jokes on them all the time. Like they're my two white sons, though.

By the way, I never had to say, I never had the guts to say, Marshawn, you were funny because you do that Joe Pesci thing on me, man. Knock my ass over. I ain't going to touch that. Like, you're great. You were great. That was good. We're good. We're good.

Thank you, Marcia. So Sarah, what, I mean, so you did those early stage things, but was it, did you have a career mindset then or was just more iterative? It was more getting that sort of feedback and you just, you found joy in it or did you really have that mindset going as early as high school and college saying this? Yeah, I wanted to be a comedian for sure. I wanted to be a comedian. Who were the mentors then? Who were the, were there people you aspired to be at the time?

Well, I loved Steve Martin. Of course. Yeah. He was my favorite. But my mom had the Woody Allen double album and Albert Brooks. I loved Albert Brooks and...

You know, all that stuff. I don't know. I just loved comedy. But Sarah, starting, so it's like, unlike sports where you're going to go and you're going to get drafted or you're going to go to school to be a doctor or whatever it may be. So your career, so you're literally out of high school and you're like, you know what? I'm going to go to the comedy club circuits and we're going to go to the small clubs and do your act. And is that kind of how it really starts? Because there's no like script to say, hey, go do this and you're going to get booked here. So you just would go into...

the city and go do these shows. And it kind of continued and you did well and it kept going. Basically, yeah. I mean, I grew up in New Hampshire and and then I got into NYU and I had a partial scholarship and I was a drama major and I did that for a year. And then I was like I was working at a comedy club passing out flyers on the corner of McDougal and 3rd.

And I was working 10 hours a day and then like sleeping through my classes. And I felt so guilty, you know, like trying to pinch myself awake. So my dad said, listen, if you draw, he said, if you drop out of college, because he was paying the rest, I got, you know, $1,500 a semester. And it's like $20,000 a semester back then. Now it's, of course, so much more.

elitist college. So my dad goes, if you drop out, I'll pay your next three years of rent, like as if it's your sophomore, junior, senior year, then you're on your own. And I said, okay, because I just, I don't know what going to college for drama. It's not I'm not saying it's a waste of money. But I mean, I could just take like an acting class or something. I don't know. I wanted to just get

I stole classes after that because all my friends went to NYU. So I just went to classes. They're big lecture classes. They don't. No one notices. I love it.

When did your comedy start? I mean, I love, you know, taking on just the personalities to those in the room. You may talk about your teachers, may talk about other students. When did you start touching on social issues? When did you when did you start? I mean, I know a lot of activism in your family, a lot of social awareness that has been part of your childhood and your upbringing. But when did that start to take shape in terms of the comedy?

I don't know. I think because when I first started, I was really doing a character and saying really like the opposite of how I felt about things. And that was how I was able to like talk about stuff. And then I got more sincere, more just being the same person as I am on stage. But I don't know. I guess as things came up and I'm like reading the news and seeing what's going on and, you know, so much bullshit. I think I was so blown away because

Because I was so young when I started that I saw these people in politics or whatever, and they were grownups. I couldn't believe the behavior, you know? I was used to grownups. I just assumed they, like, knew better and stuff, and they...

And then seeing the world around me, or even like I worked at SNL, I was 22 and I'm like, these grownups are crazy. Like it just, I just, it was so surprising to me. Sarah, who was on SNL then? Cause I mean, talk, take me through some of the cast mates then when you're there. Adam Sandler, Chris Farley, Phil Hartman, Spade, Julia Sweeney, Ellen Clay, corn, Mike Myers, um,

So this was the all-star year. That was, that was, I mean, you guys were, I mean, that must've been fun. It was how fun was that? Yeah. Oh shit. Yeah. He hella funny too. Yeah. It was, it was crazy. You know, it was a different time. It was like, there weren't other, there were like at the time I was there, there weren't any women writers anymore. And it was before like an amazing, uh,

change in in like the boys club that it was or whatever I liked everyone I had a really good time but like you know it was like um the women's room on the 17th floor where we wrote was locked you needed a key the guys didn't need a key we needed a key why to keep the guys from assaulting us you know maybe like it was crazy wow

Different times. But it was great, too. You know, I mean, it's just like we live through different times. There's going to be stuff about right now that we'll look back on and be like, can you believe? But as a young comedian, that had to be like the Shangri-La, like I want to be on Saturday Night Live. And then you make it. You're like, oh, my holy shit. I'm fucking here. I made SNL. Yeah, crazy. And then I was there for one year and then I got fired. And then I go, am I in show business anymore? Is this it?

But I just go back to square one to stand up again and back better. You've talked about that. That was a pretty raw experience, right? I mean, you're doing writing, you're doing the work there. But one year, I mean, obviously it came to a halt. I mean, it would take some time to recover from that? I mean, they changed over like the whole cast and a lot of people changed. But I mean, yeah, I was shocked because it had never occurred to me that I would be fired.

And then I got fired a bunch of times after that from jobs. So then I got, then I felt like any job I got, I wanted to make sure before I left to go to the set that I was still hired. But it's good. That's good experience. Like I've been punched in the face three times. I feel like you can really tell people that have never been punched in the face.

Amen. Amen. So SNL is one of them. What were the other two? Oh, no. I mean, just literally. Oh, you mean literally punched in the face? Yeah. Who punched you in the face? Oh, when I was passing out flyers on the corner of McDougal and 3rd, I was trying to break up a fight between this like drunk guy.

gaggle of guys and the pluck you chicken who was also passing out flyers on the corner and I got in the middle. I was like, hey, hands off, not out of bravery. I just is sexism. Like I didn't think they would hit a woman, but boy, right in my temple knocked me unconscious.

And I thought you meant like the industry. No, my dad and I have both been punched in the face three times. But I do feel like there is something about knowing you can take a punch and persevering. Did you get your hands up then? I didn't guard. I didn't have any time to guard my grill. No. Yeah, you got to keep it. That's crazy because we're just talking about it like this.

you know, individual when, like when they see me, a lot of people come and leave with their hands. - Hi. - And then I feel like, then I feel like a karate master 'cause then I'm like,

Wax on, wax off. Get that shit out of here. Use your words. What's up? How you doing? Oh, yeah, man. I'm a huge fan. Like, okay, thank you. You can tell me that. You ain't got to come beating on me and shit. I tell, oh, cool. You a big fan? After they hit me, okay, you a big fan? And I'll punch their ass back. Hey, Sarah, one of the funniest things you ever did is I still remember it was like yesterday, the video you did.

when you're dating Jimmy Kimmel and you said, hey, Jimmy, I fucked Matt Damon on the video and you did the whole video. That must have been the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life. I just watched that video again and it really holds up. How long did it take to make that video? Three hours. Three hours. Well, the night, okay, so first of all, I had never like lied to him, you know, I don't, but I had to lie to him and say, because I was on the road and I said I was wherever, but I was in Miami and,

That's where Matt was living with his family and I was on tour. So I went through there. That's where we crossed paths. We, the night before I wrote the song with cousin Sal and, and Tony Barbieri, we wrote the song, we recorded it. And then the next day we had three hours with Matt to shoot. And we had a whole hotel set.

And he learned it real quick and laid down his part of the song, you know. And then we just were lip syncing it and doing it in different parts of the hotel. We had dancers at one point. I mean, it came out so well, but it was quick. And the reason why he only had three hours was so sweet is because at noon he had to go to his daughter's like Halloween pageant, you know. But we got everything and everything.

It was a surprise for his like a surprise birthday or something for Jimmy. You haven't seen him or Sean. She was surprised. Jimmy with this was something he didn't know. And so she's actually on the show getting interviewed. And she's like, I got something I have to tell you, Jimmy. But it's really hard. And he's like, well, you can tell me anything, babe, like whatever. And he's like, no, I don't know if I can do it. It's really hard. And you got everybody here. Maybe we can wait till later. And he's like, no, just just tell me.

And so then she hilariously plays the video. Roll the tape. Roll the tape. The tape is, you know, it's a video. And she's like, I fucked Matt Damon. And he's like, yeah, I fucked her. And it was just on and on. It was like the greatest video. I think it was downloaded 150 million times, something like that. Yeah, it was like one of the first, you know, it was like the beginning of all that stuff. So it was like a viral video. And it's so funny because after that, people would want to hire me and be like, we want you to make a viral video. And I'm like, I'm not.

I don't decide that it's viral. Everybody wants to make a viral video. I don't know how to do that. What's that shit they got? Cameo? Yes. It was like a cameo.

Yeah, it was funny. Because I'm over here like, hold on a second. You you fuck Mac Damon and then just told your boyfriend in the video. Well, it's just pretend. Damn, the level of savagery. Savagery. He loved it. Well, we were brushing our teeth before the show and because the whole show was surprises for him. You know, he wanted it to he didn't want to know what was happening. And he goes, oh, I heard this video is great. And I was like,

Well, I don't know. I mean, keep your expectations low. It's just a video, you know, but it came out good. And by the way, speaking of come out good, you guys, you guys have come out well after a relationship. Now you guys are still close. And my boyfriend writes on his show.

which is crazy your current boyfriend writes yeah yeah so more savages yeah he's like a writer producer on the show i know and it but i didn't meet him from writing we were dating and then they called him and said you know will you come in savagery and that as well damn you just got savage written all over you you could take a punch tell your boyfriend straight up i'm on cuz and then it's here now i'm on cuz i hired my other i'm him too hire him

I know he wanted to hire him. I mean, it's funny because I remember Jimmy, when we were together, it always bothered him that I was very good friends with my ex-boyfriend. He's like, if we ever broke up, I wouldn't be friends with you. And I like to remind him of that now because we're, as he describes it, we're like brothers. Yeah.

That's my brothers. I love it. Hey, speaking, you were talking earlier about just that some of the comedy, not even the comedy, but some of the things that we excuse is normal or we've normalized in society. We'll look back and go, what the hell are we thinking? And you even reflected just in comedic terms, you know, pushing those boundaries and sort of reflecting back.

But I mean, you've been pretty fierce champion. And I think this is some many of mutual friend, Bill Maher and others. And I think that's how we first met. Yeah. Just free speech, this notion of free speech and pushing out the boundaries and going, you know, we've kind of had these iterations of cancel culture. I feel like we're coming out

of another iteration over the course of the last number of years, the last year or so, I feel like people are sort of pulling away. Where do you think we are in that, you know, in that journey as it relates to comedy, free speech, as it relates to cancel culture, just your own reflections over these many, many years of doing this craft? I mean, I think with enough growth, emotional growth,

we can get back to, or to a new version of irreverence and comedy. You mean in terms of comedy of like real irreverence and comedy that will be more honest than the original irreverence and comedy where it's like, you know, as a white person who grew up in New Hampshire and was, is so liberal and all these things, I was still so ignorant until the internet really, where you go like, I remember at one point going like, Oh my gosh, there's like,

a real epidemic of unarmed black teenagers getting killed. And then I realized like, oh no, this is how it is. This is how it's always been. It's always been, yeah. To have been doing that edgy comedy that I was doing in that ignorance, I'm so liberal. I can say, because I don't mean it, it's bullshit.

So, but I would love to get to a point where we, where there is real equality. I mean, will we ever get to like a post-racist society? I hope so before we're, before we are, you know, complete dead, you know, from the climate or whatever. I hope so. And, and, and only in like a real point like that, can we be super irreverent in all ways that this is the thing you can get away with anything.

But what is in your heart has to transcend that you go, oh, he can say that because, you know, it's like somebody called into my podcast and said, oh, I was listening to this comic I love. And he said this anti-Semitic thing and it just broke my heart and blah, blah, blah. Well, I happen to know the comic and the bit she was talking about. And it's hilarious. And it's not offensive to me. It's obviously subjective because I'm

I know that he is an ally or whatever. Like, I know that he's not anti-Semitic. Like he's, he's, it's pure love and the story's brilliant and funny. And there's a character in it that, you know, so, you know, people can go like, I'm offended. Oh, I get to be offended at that or that or that. There's a difference between that and something that really cuts you.

And we have those dog senses of humans, you know, just that innate sense of like, you know where it's coming from, if it is if it's ugly or if it's with love. That's the that's why when you see a transcript of something a comedian said, who's like getting into trouble, it's not fair because it's how they're saying it and who's who it's coming from.

There's a difference, right? I mean, you just know there's a difference. There are certain people in your life that can say things and get away with it and other people that cannot.

Yeah, no, I mean, back in our day, I mean, Richard Pryor and these guys, I mean, the stuff they were saying was often unbelievable. I mean, that bit on Saturday Night Live with Chevy Chase. Yeah, unbelievable. And then, yeah, at Gavin's point, it went through a phase where you couldn't say this stuff anymore. But now I think it's coming back. And I know Vince Vaughn sat along. Didn't you have a long talk about that, too? Like Hollywood's got to bring this back. People got to come back to what it was, which hopefully does.

But what it was was incredibly white and incredible. I mean, if you look at a movie from just 10 years ago, it's shocking how white. But it's great to be able to look back on that and go, Jesus, instead of like, hey, what was wrong with that? But we can still enjoy things about it. You can still watch Friends and go, oh, this is funny. That's great. I love that show, even though it's like,

There's so many homophobic jokes and it's incredibly white, but I don't think you need to like throw the baby out with the bathwater. But now we see it, that's what makes it art is that you can watch the same thing that you watched 20 years ago. And when you watch it today, you're seeing something completely different, but you can still appreciate it for what it is and the time it's from. - No doubt. - God, I'm so funny today on this podcast.

No, no, but it's an important topic because, I mean, obviously it's shaped so much of our politics and our life as it relates to, I mean, and I don't want to get into the whole sort of woke world, but this notion of cancel culture. The woke mob. There is, I will say, did you watch Peaky Blinders, anybody? No, nope. I think I started it. You have to watch it with subtitles because it's so hard to understand them, but yeah.

Anyway, it's like historical. It doesn't matter. But point being, there was like one point where the guy, the star of it is talking about how the basically the far right and the far left are eventually just going to meet, you know, like the Venn diagram of it. And I feel like, boy, I'm seeing that. I agree with you. Wild, you know, I don't want to get into it, but if you're a liberal Jew right now, it's fucking weird.

It's just weird. Yeah. And I appreciate not wanting to get into that right now. No, no desire. But I do have a friend who's a comic, Sam Morrell, who said the greatest thing, and this is all I want to say about Israel, but it's just like, all you do is when someone brings it up, you just go, oh, awful, awful. Then you get a lot of people nodding their head on all sides. Everybody can agree. It's fucking awful. Everybody agrees. Monsters. Awful. Awful.

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Hey, Sarah, take me through your history of, I know you've battled, it's been an open book on depression and whatnot. So has it been, how has that struggle been growing up? I mean, you've had it, and are you an introverted depression person? Are you someone that kind of battles through life and gets through it? Because it's been a well-chronicled open book of you. Take me through that journey and where you're at now with that part of it.

You know, it's just a constant thing. But, you know, when I was like 12 or 13, you know, I was really outgoing, you know, friends and then all of a sudden like,

Just all in one second, the whole world looked different. It was, I guess, chemical depression, clinical depression. In both amazing and very scary depression-y ways, if you change your perspective just one degree, the whole world looks different. That's what it was like. I was like, wow.

All of a sudden I couldn't, I didn't want to hang out with my friends. I didn't want to be social. I didn't want to be around others. I just wanted to be in my bed watching TV or, you know, like I just, everything scared me. It was like, I didn't recognize myself because I didn't recognize the world. Everything looked different suddenly. And I didn't understand it. I mean, my stepdad, I remember he,

asked me like he was the only one who said like, what does this feel like? You know, and I really thought about it. And this is exactly what it felt like. I felt like I was so homesick, but I was home. So there wasn't anything to do to satiate it, you know. But that's what it just chemically what it felt like. And then, you know, I was put on tons of drugs and it was New Hampshire in the 80s. I mean, I think they just

It was crazy. Like at one point I was on four Xanax four times a day. I was 13. Jesus. Whoever that doctor is should be in jail. You was high as shit. I just felt nothing. I was like, but I remember thinking like this can't be right.

And then another doctor got me off slowly and then I was over it. Like I felt better. And then when I was at SNL, it happened again and I recognized the feeling right away. And then I was like, and I wanted to like quit Saturday Night Live and move back to New Hampshire, which of course I didn't want. But like, that's what your brain does. And a friend, another comic, like got me a therapist, found me a therapist that I read a book about panic attacks that actually was really helpful and

Because I learned that the thing about panic attacks is once you have one, all the subsequent ones come from the fear of having that again. You know, and that just helped mentally to know. It's like when you're a woman and you suddenly like everything, you just feel total despair. And then you realize that you're you have PMS and you're like, oh, that's what that is. And then you're OK. You know, it's just like knowing a lot of it is just knowing stuff.

Like your mind-body experience, that shit is truly connected. Otherwise, how do you explain nervous diarrhea? There you go. Mic drop. There you go. Mic drop. Mic drop.

Mic drop. Let's talk about weed. Weed. And the legalization. Well, you like that, Marshawn? Well, yes. Marshawn can talk about weed all day long. In fact, we just made or Gavin made Woody Harrelson happy the other day by putting some. I listened to the whole thing. I heard him very excited. You want to be able to stay out and eat and nosh if you're high.

That's it. It should be as late as bars. Bars are open until a million. Well, maybe not in L.A., I guess. There's Marshawn's product right there, Sarah. Doty? Look out, Jesus. Yeah. What is that? Just flour? Yeah, there's some flour. We're right here. We got Lemon Quake and we got some Patronus 3.5. You feel what I'm talking about? Patronus? Is that part supposed to sound like Hennessy? Yeah.

And Patron? Yeah. It's a little concoction that we like to drink. So, I mean, we decided to name a strain after it. Can you make a strain that's like, you know what I love? When they roll it in keef. Ooh. You know, that powder. What the hell is keef? I don't know any of this stuff. Keef is pot, but it's like the crystallized powder. Get your ass hot. Phenomenal.

You just need a little puff. I mean, that's the only thing is weed is so strong now that you only need a puff. But like, it's so communal to keep puffing. Well, don't smoke with Marshawn then, Sarah, because his puffs will take that Xanax like 10 times over. I smoked with Snoop before we shot a scene for a movie, and I am not somebody who can like work and be high and...

He is. He had nailed his lines. He improvised. He's so loose. But weed, I see it really help comedians. They go on stage. They're high. They murder. That brings my two favorite things together, weed and stand-up, and makes it a nightmare. For me, that's the prize when I get off stage. So you reward yourself. Yes, it's a treat. It's an everyday treat.

As a matter of fact, when I'm done here, I am to play. I am to smoke weed and play Call of Duty. And get on some cards. So you're going to fire up a J? Are you more like a Papers or you a Bone? I like smoking joints, but I lately have been eating edibles. So you get on an edible. Marshawn, my voice is my instrument. I understand. You got to keep that right. But I probably will smoke a little bit. All right.

Smoke a little bit, play a little bit, enjoy a lot. Sound like a pretty productive day. That's the perfect Sunday. Like I told Woody, I've spent some great Sundays at the works. But wait, can we talk about weed in terms of like a radical transfer of power that you could do with regulations of some kind? I mean, it seems easy because I'm just saying it, but I'm sure it's difficult. But

With all the people that have served time, I just, I get enraged when I think about John Boehner who put laws in place that put people in jail for weed crimes. Nine out of ten or exponentially more people of brown and black color. Nobody's black. Yeah, they look like me. Browns.

And they look like me. They should be not only out of jail, but given the opportunities of their main business that they were there for. John Boehner now, after having all these people go to jail, is the lobbyist for weed in Ohio and makes millions. Why is he making money? Also, I feel like all the red tape put around weed all these years while it's semi-legal and all this stuff.

I feel like it's holding a place for the big liquor companies and the big tobacco companies to have a stronghold over that industry when it's not their industry.

All right. Let me unpack this. So a number of things. We were doing legalization in California and we were in the process. I mean, there was there was a couple iterations for legalization in California. And Boehner was public enemy. Number one, he was actively opposing efforts across the country. So the hypocrisy is next level. And it wasn't just Boehner. It was guys like him in those positions of power and influence.

But the whole movement, as you know, sort of originated with this social justice, racial justice framework, certainly in California. And that's how it was ultimately presented to the voters. And the great thing in California, largest state, obviously, is larger than 21 state populations combined.

is that there was an expungement process, to your point, for people that had been convicted of nonviolent possession of marijuana. And so we had a process. We do a bunch of fairs and we do events around getting people and cleaning up their records, getting people and having them get their records expunged. But it's still a huge issue across other parts of the country that are not as expunged.

as enlightened on the topic. But the point you just made, and I'll end on this, on the regulatory side is each state's come up with their own regulatory framework. And you're 100% right. It's holding back the ultimate success of these initiatives. How's that working for abortion? Well, well said, well said, well said.

So it's, it needs, we're going to see the national, we need to see national leadership. Even, you know, I think you're seeing it with the current occupant of the White House. Even the guy who wants to get back to the White House is saying better things on the topic. So I feel like we're turning the page on this topic and we can get to larger issues of war on drugs and crack cocaine disparities that have also haunted our past and all the other issues. Yeah. Yeah.

But let's not teach that in school because we might understand our history.

Oh, Florida. Florida. Removing Rosa Parks from the textbooks, her race, that is. Because it wasn't relevant with the anti-woke law. Her race was not relevant in the civil rights movement. But that was an effort in Florida. They had changed the textbooks. There was a huge backlash and they corrected course. But Sarah ain't kidding. Cate Blanchett is playing Rosa Parks in a movie.

Just kidding.

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shower, have breakfast, including some delicious Oscar Meyer bacon, and then drive to work. And to think that the bacon would still be smoking. The point is all of these take at least half a day to complete. And Oscar Meyer takes the best cuts and smokes them over real hardwood chips for a really long time until it tastes really good. So,

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Hey, Sarah, a question. When you're on the road, I was curious, when you're on the road on your tour, are you taking in cities? Are you enjoying it? Are you there and like, you know, sleeping and playing Call of Duty? Are you like cruising around the cities, getting more bits, more content? What do you like to do when you're traveling? I'm not at a traveling with a PS5 level of success, but...

I do. I don't, I'm not as good. Like I have friends that are, they go, they, they do all the sites they do. And then they do their show at night. I'm more of like a ball of, I'm, I'm more stressed and in bed and avoiding dealing with working on my set and, um,

I'm trying to chill more and see. But I have, like, I was in Indianapolis, and, you know, I get up, and at, like, 4 p.m., I want eggs. And there's just no place that will give me eggs in Indianapolis, you know, at 4. There's a place called Steak and Eggs right across from St. Elmo's Steakhouse. Actually, it's open until 5 a.m.,

I go there every year for the combine. So there's one place I've been there numerous times. I didn't find it, but I found one place and it's like the gay bar in town called downtown Ollie's. And we went at 4 PM and let me tell you, the regulars there look like truckers with long beards. And I go, Oh,

This is a gay bar. They go, yeah, no, we're gay. It's crazy. It was so cool to see. Like, it was just a whole other world, you know, but the same world. I mean, we have to remember, like, the United States is like the size of like 12 countries or something. Like, people are really different wherever you go, but I love it.

So who do you travel with? Who's in your crew? Is it you and a couple of friends? Is it you solo and your team? Or who goes with you? It used to just be me solo. And at a certain point,

It's just sitting at like a gate at Southwest and especially because I have a name with two S's and you hear people like, you know, and then it's like embarrassing. Although I'm a people person like talking to people, but now I travel with my manager and that's great because I can be kind of free and she can be the one that's like.

looking out and then um if like I'll have an opening act maybe they'll meet me there or maybe they'll fly with us depending on what part of the country they're coming from but yeah it's just every night a different city you fly Southwest yeah it's so funny because like Chris Rock and Chelsea Handler before my last tour were both like the last tour I did was the best tour of my life you're gonna love the road and I'm like

But you guys are in private jets. It's different. But, you know, I yeah. So, I mean, listen, I'm flying something called like breeze airlines when I go from Ohio to Charleston, South Carolina. I never heard of that in my life. But Southwest is. Yeah, it's by the way, Marshawn, Southwest is the same airplane as well, my friend.

That's my go-to airline as well. There's no governor planes. Everyone thinks governors have planes. I don't mind. Southwest has a bad rep. Gavin, I don't know if you ever flew Southwest in your life. I'm Southwest. I got A status, brother. I got 50 plus round trips a year. But I do know Marshawn's probably right when he gives you shit for never driving.

Yeah, he don't drive and I know he ain't flow no Southwest. He can't be allowed to drive. No, but dangerous. By the way, Sarah, you're flying around Southwest for this new tour postmortem, right? This new stand up tour postmortem. Yeah, I mean, yeah. No, but and it but it comes from, you know, I mean,

we can make light of it and you're, you do a magnificent job at it, but you lost your, your, you lost dad, you lost step-mom and infamously lost them within just a few days of each other. Nine days. They died. I'm sorry to hear that mama. I think,

Thank you. I mean, it literally was last May, right? It was a year ago last May. So this is what this show is about. Usually I don't have a show. My show isn't like about one thing, but this is kind of like about one thing. And hopefully it's, you know, it's funny, but it's a sad topic. But that's always what I do. I talk about the darkest reaches of humanity and

You know, make it into like a cum joke somehow. Anyway, great talking to all of you. No, sorry. You guys talk dirty, so I can say that. Marshawn was taught by Mama Lynch early in Asia Square, too. So Marshawn, yes, we we Mama Lynch. Mama Lynch loves you, by the way. She loves her comedian, her comedics. But no, we do talk shit all day long, Sarah. We talk dirty all day long.

And we love it. And so let me ask a question, Sarah. Has there ever been one show you've bombed on? Do you remember you walked out on stage like, holy shit, these people are not fucking digging me. This is not going well. And you have to improvise and try to sort it out. Was there been one show that you remember that's like, this is not good?

and not one particular show i mean i've eaten bowls of on stage absolutely like i mean especially like before like i had an audience or anything like i'm not for i'm super duper not for everyone but um yeah i mean one time i remember i did a like a casino in lake tahoe

And usually I don't like a spotlight because I don't like being blinded. I like to see like the first few rows a little bit, you know, but this was like a spotlight. I go out, I do my first couple jokes and it's like barely anything. And I'm just thinking, oh, it's going to be the longest fucking hour. And I just power through it and I just go all to casino. Maybe it's empty. I don't know. And then the worst part was when I was done, the lights came up and it was full.

I bombed with a full crowd. I mean, seriously, how do you recover from that? I mean, you can laugh it off, but that's got to sting, right? Or what's the... After a while, have you just... Like the other night, I felt like I had a shitty set, but it was like I wasn't enjoying it in my head. And that bums me out more than just like bombing. I, you know...

I bomb a small enough amount of times that I can kind of enjoy it. But it's just part of it. It's like part of it. You can't, just like anything, you really can't succeed without failure. You got to figure stuff out. And you have to figure it out in front of a crowd with stand-up. There's only so much you can practice in front of your bathroom mirror, you know? You got to go out and even Chris Rock, I...

he's such an inspiration because he he'll do a special and then he comes back to the cellar and everyone goes crazy you know they're so excited and then he's willing to disappoint them like he's just trying new stuff and he has to do it to see what works what doesn't work what might be something maybe there's something here it's like a process and you have to start at zero

When you're done with the last special or whatever you got to start at zero and you you're gonna disappoint people and

And I'm curious, I mean, over the course of when you're doing your stand-up show, over the course of many, many months, are you constantly iterating, doing new material throughout that process? Or do you stand pretty static in terms of what you know works? Or is that just the base? I mean, you go in a different city and you try on the basis of what is relevant in that town or community and play around with that. Or what's a typical process for you?

That always sneaks in, you know, because it's like kind of a conversation. You know, I'm mostly talking, but like, like, you know, you're so yeah, I mean, I talk about what's going on or whatever. But mostly I'm really this tour. I have to figure out what this show is. I've got to figure it out because then I shoot my special like two thirds into it.

And then I do a few more dates, which my biggest fear after I shoot a special and then I still do stand. I still have dates before the special comes out is that I figure out like the perfect joke. If it is too late, I've recorded it. But I, you know, I'm hoping I haven't written my favorite joke of this special yet. You know, it usually happens on the road.

But the pressure is like, you've got to get it done. And I'm shooting it at the Beacon in New York, and it has to be done. And I'm directing it, but...

I don't know. It will happen. I'm starting to be able to mitigate stress by just going like, what are the chances I'm not going to be ready and I won't get it done? Of course I'll get it done. Well, dude, that's amazing. It's amazing pressure doing what you do, the stand-up stuff. I mean, I can't even... I mean, to go out on stage and do that night after night after night. I mean, talk about your stress, Gavin, giving your speeches to the town halls. I mean, forget about that. You got an easy job. A lot of it's totally familiar. Gavin, you're like...

You're like energized by it. You like look at this. You're Marshawn Gavin. You both have such high pressure, high stakes. I mean, Marshawn, you're retired clearly. Yeah, but see, I had a little bit of some car that helped me with that was I had a serious case of fucking.

That's the best. You know why people like you are like, like that kind of success is so exciting because what it is, is you didn't know what you couldn't do.

And I feel like that could be a common thread in this here. You know, you didn't you it's just like the breaking the four minute mile or like doing the first flip in skateboarding. It's always like no one can do it. And then one person comes along that doesn't know they can't do it. So they do it. And now everyone knows it's possible. So then they can do it.

But it's interesting. That was, I mean, when Roger Bannister broke that four minute mile, I mean, it was a half dozen people that next year broke it. It had never been broken in human history. To your point, you don't know what you don't know. Because they needed to know it was possible, but he didn't need to know it was possible. Hey, Sarah, take me through quickly. I know that, and by the way, I love your podcast.

And the cool thing is, is you're helping so many people out. I mean, so many episodes to listen to people are calling and asking, like, I don't think you're a therapist, correct? I mean, you're not a doctor, right? No, I'm just one of those people who's been to therapy. And so I think I'm a therapist. Yeah.

So, Marshawn, everybody calls into Sarah, hey, I need help on this, or my boyfriend left me, or whatever, and she's giving this advice that you're going to pay thousands of dollars to, and Sarah's spitting out game left and right to everybody asking her for counseling. For the free ball? It's crazy.

crazy because i just when stand-up went away during the pandemic i was like fine i'll do a podcast but i didn't want to have guests because no offense and i i was very happy gavin texted me but like i my biggest fear is asking people to like come on my show or or i have a you came on my show

But, you know, like to have a podcast every week that I have to like ask guests and friends, I just didn't want to. So I just wanted people to call in and that I like strangers and I want to like hear from people. And I didn't even think it would be people from like all over the world, not just the country. But so I just thought it would be funny or silly. But the callers really do the trajectory of the how the podcast goes. And it just got so funny.

heavy and serious a lot of the time. And people like sometimes they call in and I'm like, this is above my pay grade. I don't know the answer to this, but other people will call in and they know the answer. And it's just become this really cool community.

I heard one person where Sean was almost like Sarah had to like call like 911 to a doctor and say, listen, I need your help. Have this person stay on the line. Call, call 1-800-HELP and please take her off my phone call. Um, but now it's pretty cool. Oh shit. Hey Sarah, just as, as we wrap up, I mean, you,

Obviously, you mentioned the movie Bradley Cooper directed and you played, I think, his sister. And so, I mean, and that was a more serious role. And so is where's your trajectory? I mean, are you a goal oriented person or is it just I mean, are you just constantly sort of rolling with this? But are you looking to do a lot more acting, more serious drama or or what's where you're going to be in 10 years? What's your what is your sense?

I'm not a goal-oriented person. I've never thought about it. I've never thought about like, "In 10 years, I want this." I mean, the only goal-oriented thing I think of is I wanna, I live below my means and save up for when I'm elderly so that I can have healthcare. I wanna be able to live with other comics in a nursing home that's like really nice. We have our own space and a common space and like nursing care and it's clean.

So I have to be really rich to save all my pennies for that. Besides that, I don't really think about it. I love doing odd jobs. I love that I get to, right, Marshawn? Like, you're acting, you're doing this. I love doing all sorts of things.

And that just keep me interested and connected to people and stuff. I mean, stand-up's my jam. That's like my identity. Like that's who I am. But I do love acting. And sometimes it's hard because I like auditioning for stuff. Like I auditioned for Maestro because people think that

the people know me, you know, so they go, well, people aren't going to get lost in a character in her, but I can, I do do it, you know, but it's hard to get seen that way because everyone, it's like, um, I'm not the kind of famous, like you go like, Oh my God, that's Nicole Kidman. You

You know, it's like Sarah, you know, like everyone feels like they like went to camp with me, you know, which I love. But it's it's a familiarity that is not necessarily conducive to like disappearing into a role. Marshawn, you must feel the same way, by the way. That's got to be I mean, for Marshawn, I imagine people come up to you with the same mindset, right?

Yeah, and then it's changed, like Doug was saying. I mean, there used to be individuals come up to me like, hey, you know, why the fuck Pete didn't give you the ball or some shit like that? And now it's like, I mean, I'll go out and they're like, hey, Mr. G. Hey, Mr. G, what's up? And it's like, oh, shit, well, maybe they did get lost in that character. Or I played it well enough to where, I mean, it ain't Marshawn Lynch, it's Mr. G, so...

I mean, maybe I did do something right or I just did something. Everything you're doing is right. Marshawn, you've done everything right. And Sarah, you've done everything right. You are a badass. Savage. You know what? I'm proud of all four of us.

I think a

A lot of people think that you're supposed to be going to therapy once you're like having panic attacks every day. But before you get to that point, I think once you start even noticing that you feel a little bit off and you can't maintain this harmony that you once had in relationships, that could be a sign that maybe you want to go talk to somebody.

There's always a benefit in talking to someone because we can all benefit from improved insight about ourselves and who we are and how we behave with other people. So if you're human, that's like a good indicator that you could benefit from talking to somebody. Find out if therapy is right for you. Visit BetterHelp.com today.

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