Obama Night at the DNC (feat. Julia Louis-Dreyfus)
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This week we're going all out for the Democratic National Convention. Here at Crooked Media, we're giving Friends of the Pod subscribers access to a ton of behind-the-scenes content and community events, including a DNC subscriber live chat, a new subscriber-exclusive segment featuring me, John, Tommy, and Dan, four, count them, four back-to-back ad-free episodes of Pod Save America recapping the biggest convention news of the night, and brand-new episodes of Inside 2024 and Polar Coaster.

It's going to be a hell of a week for content. And as a bonus, we'll have a Democratic Party nominee by the end. Pretty good deal. Get all of our exclusive DNC content and more when you subscribe to Friends of the Pod. Head to cricket.com slash friends to sign up now.

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. Tommy Vitor. On tonight's show, Barack and Michelle Obama rally the troops at the DNC. The one and only Julia Louis-Dreyfus stops by to talk about why she's involved in the convention and all those Veep comparisons with Kamala Harris and...

Our own senator, LaFonza Butler, a close friend of Kamala, talks to Love It and Me about what the VP is really like and why she decided, like Joe Biden, to serve just one term. She also called me pretty weird, but I really like her. Yeah, in fairness, that's because you called yourself weird first. But anyway...

It was a good conversation. He's our J.D. Vance. Tune in. Hey, that sucks. What are you doing in that chair, buddy? Look, you started the interview as J.D. Vance. You ended as Tim Walls. Nice. Okay. All right, so we're recording this at 11 p.m. on Tuesday night.

Better than last night. Which is lovely. We're doing better. Half an hour better every night. Half an hour better every night. Who knows what happens by Thursday night. It's just after night two of the convention. So tonight is traditionally the night when the big festive roll call happens to officially nominate the presidential and vice presidential candidates. This year, of course, the official roll call happened virtually to make sure we didn't run afoul of the state ballot deadlines.

but you know what we're the party of fun now so uh democrats decided to do the ceremonial roll call anyway it was actually really cool yeah really cool part of the night uh as usual the delegates cast their votes state by state but this time they played a state-specific song with at least one surprise in-person appearance from obviously lil john who's from georgia by tradition uh the nominees home state delegation california went last

to put her over the top. And then there was an unexpected move. Here's a super cut of how it all went. - As Nevada's first black woman chair, I proudly deliver the Silver State's 48 votes for their next president. - Texas cast three votes for president and 263 votes for freedom. - California, we proudly cast our 482 votes for freedom.

Vice President Kamala Harris. But now, a special surprise. Live from my home state of Wisconsin, Vice President Kamala Harris. At the Democratic National Convention, well, they just completed their roll call. And they have nominated Coach Walls and me to be the next Vice President and President of the United States of America. Thank you.

What did you guys think of that Milwaukee move? I think we should set the stage. It's not just here in Milwaukee. They filled the FISER forum, which is where the Republican convention was last month. Yep. And it was a raucous crowd and a perfect set. And they did it live, which is a risky maneuver.

Two full stadiums. Well, especially for all the issues last night with going over, the fact that they orchestrated the whole thing tonight so that literally the roll call ends and Newsom puts her over the top in California and then it just cuts to her walking out on stage with a huge crowd. It was amazing. It was so good. The stagecraft. A lot of people had a hand in that. They probably don't get a lot of credit. That's amazing. We were all watching it and we were just such earners.

We were just so earnestly excited and just sort of, that's so fucking cool. Don't look at me and Dan. You know we weren't here. We were up in a suite. I was sitting right here. You were talking with your daughter and your wife. Oh, that's when it happened. Oh, I was doing Itsy Bitsy Spider with Lizzie. I thought we were in the suite. Which is fair. It's a good excuse. What did you guys think of the vibes in general before we get to the big speakers?

Vibes are good. Vibes are good, right? Vibes are good. It was a good day. We're drinking now. We're having a good time. Vibes are good on day two. All right, let's get to the speeches. Headliners tonight were second gentleman Doug Emhoff and Barack and Michelle Obama. We're just going to take them in order. Let's listen to Doug. I got Kamala's voicemail and I just started rambling. Hey, it's Doug. I'm on my way to an early meeting. Again, it's Doug.

I remember I was trying to grab the words out of the air and just put them back in my mouth. And for what seemed like far too many minutes, I hung up. By the way, Kamala saved that voicemail. And she makes me listen to it on every anniversary. But that's when she called me back. And we talked for an hour. And we laughed. Well, you know that laugh. I love that laugh! So should we talk about why we missed Doug's speech? The live part, yeah.

So we were about to watch Doug, and then our friend Ben Krause, who's in the speech writing room, he said he was going to bring us down to the convention floor. To the podium area. To the podium area. I've never been down to the podium area. You're literally standing on the podium, but behind the stage that you see. It's very cool. Yeah. We watched Doug come off and greet his staff, and everyone was...

Elated. Elated. I think is the best word. And then we walked down and we were going to go out to watch this. We were going to watch the speech. And then we were walking down the hall and we saw Barack Obama's assistant, Amos, and he just pulled us in. We got to say hi to Obama. How are you? Great.

Pretty neat. Give him a little good luck. He needed that. He needed the good luck from us. Yeah, he did. He was like, all right, get out of here. It's so annoying because he did not even seem a little bit nervous. No. Not a hair. It's his... It's like his superpower. Fifth convention? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he was fine. He was fine. Doug's speech was fantastic. We watched it when he came back. We have seen the speech. He's so charming. Yeah, he's a charming guy. I love how much they...

It's so authentic how much they love each other. When they were at the State of the Union and they found each other, and you saw Kamala looking up at Doug up there, I've always loved it. I do. Genuinely, they just love each other. There is something so relatable, and I know this from experience, as someone who knows they punched above their weight in getting married. Doug knows he got lucky and that Kamala's amazing, and he probably wakes up every day and he's like, I can't believe

Kamala Harris married me, even if she never became my friend. It's basically the theme of the speech. Yeah, and it's so relatable to people. In the same way that Tim Walz is this archetype that's relatable to people, Doug Emhoff is exactly like that. Everyone knows Doug Emhoff, right? They understand that relationship. They understand who he is. And this was one of the most effective convention speeches I've seen in a very long time.

And to get like all political strategic about it, like we've talked a lot here about this like debate over masculinity and like young men and men sort of like leaving the Democratic Party. And I do think like between Tim Walz and Doug Emhoff, like you are seeing in this campaign like models of men who are just like goblins.

good guys and like good models for like men to be by their, by, by the success of women. Yes. Right. All bothered by it. That's, what's been beautiful about Doug from the beginning that you can just see that he, he loves being the plus one. Yeah. He loves it. He loves being, he's on a plus one world tour. I used to be on a plus one world tour. I like calling him Doug. I also like calling walls coach. Oh, just again, a little behind the curtain. Look here. We were sitting around, we were all talking about how, you know, like,

We all had a sense of what Obama was going to say. You could sort of have a sense of what Michelle Obama might say. We're like, we don't really know what Doug's going to talk about. And the only preview was a message about the need to combat anti-Semitism around the world, which is a very important message, but a very different tone than what we ultimately saw. I am so glad that what we saw was a speech about Doug explaining why he loves Kamala Harris. Oh, one other thing that Doug did that was so beautiful, really reminded me. So Bill Clinton, 1992,

He said, this was when they were making fun of like Murphy Brown and single mothers. And he said, if you don't feel welcome in the Republican Party, come be part of our family. It was a beautiful moment. Yeah, that was very nice. For lots of people whose families didn't look like the platonic ideal of 1950s television. And it was a big deal that Bill Clinton did that and said, like, there's a lot of people that live like that and like deserve to feel loved. And...

There was something so beautiful about Doug just unapologetically, unabashedly saying, we're a blended family. They call her Mamala. She's an incredible stepmother. It was complicated. He said, I got divorced. And I figured out, and Kamala took, I thought she'd be good for our family, and she was. And that sort of like direct connection

honesty without feeling at all self-conscious. You have to pretend to be some other version. It was a recognition, by the way, of respect for people. It's respect for the viewer, for voters that I really, really liked. It's just like being in touch with real life, not the refracted view of politics that we have where it's like you have to have this perfect marriage and your life has to go a certain way. It's just...

Comfort in your own skin. It's understanding like this is what everyone knows, right? They know blended families. They know mixed race couples. They know stepkids and stepmoms. And it's like that's just like normal stuff just presented to people. And it's not welcome or discussed about in the Republican Party in the same way. Well, because the primary strategy of the Republican Party, particularly under Trump, has been to otherize racism.

their opponents, Democrats, right? They are weird. They are different. Barack Obama wasn't born here. Now we do the weird thing. Kamala Harris is, you know, the biracial thing. Is she Indian? Is she Indian? Is she black? Right. And I think a theme of tonight, we're going to talk about the Obamas as well. But from all three primetime speakers, Doug, Michelle Obama and Barack Obama was like,

hey, we're pretty normal Americans in the year 2024. This is what the country looks like. This is what we sound like. Love our families, love our country. Like it's a really powerful message. And it's why it's,

The way people vote. They don't Google your list of policies and compare them and bust out the abacus and like total up what it means for them. They're like, I like this person. They seem like me. They will fight for me, which Barack Obama directly says in his speech. Michelle Obama got at that too. It's all about values and who you are and your character and how that informs your leadership. That's what people are looking for. The speakers tonight understood the assignment. Yes. They knew what they were supposed to do.

all of her speeches were not about themselves. Even Doug Emhoff's speech was not about himself. It was all about Kamala and their family and what she did for their family. It's what Obama and the former first lady did. It is just, they got it and they executed on it in a very effective way. And,

And it's always good to see a, you know, a strict scrutiny guest make it big. Yeah. A guest and a guest of a guest. That's right. Yeah. Kamala Harris went to the strict scrutiny show. Which is like also one of the most charming things. Yeah. Yeah. Because no one knew. Like she just showed up at the strict scrutiny show, the live show in D.C., sat in the front row to cheer on Doug. We're now three circles removed from the Kamala Harris interview we seek. Yeah.

We're gonna get her. We've had it before. We're working on it. She'll be back. I ran into her on an airplane once. She came up and gave me a hug. She couldn't have been nice. She's like a normal person. She's friendly. She's nice. That's who she is. Extremely normal. Alright, so after Doug, Michelle Obama took the stage.

High expectations for Michelle Obama, right? Because she always gives the most incredible speeches. She always knocks it out of the park. And man, she fucking met them tonight. If not exceeded them. Let's listen to Michelle. She understands that most of us will never be afforded the grace of failing forward.

We will never benefit from the affirmative action of generational wealth. If we bankrupt a business, if we bankrupt a business or choke in a crisis, we don't get a second, third or fourth chance. If things don't go our way,

We don't have the luxury of whining or cheating others to get further ahead. No. We don't get to change the rules so we always win. If we see a mountain in front of us, we don't expect there to be an escalator waiting to take us to the top. No. We put our heads down. We get to work.

In America, we do something. Unfortunately, we know what comes next. We know folks are going to do everything they can to distort her truth. My husband and I sadly know a little something about this. For years, Donald Trump did everything in his power to try to make people fear us.

See, his limited, narrow view of the world made him feel threatened by the existence of two hard-working, highly educated, successful people who happen to be black.

So, wow, that was... I mean, that was one of the best convention speeches I've ever seen. I mean, I think the way she tied Kamala Harris's mother and her own mother and wove their story together to talk about her values was incredible. The way she sliced Donald Trump in half and made him so small...

and went harder at him than almost any other speaker, but did it in language that was just less harsh and nasty. It was unbelievable. There was also a whole section where she...

where there's some very real shade thrown at annoying politicians who demand to be stroked and loved and donors who need to be called. That was very funny. And you could felt deeply felt really, really interesting. Oh, that's what I was actually thinking. We went out, we watched it from the floor, which is awesome. And what I, what I was thinking about when I was watching the speeches, she doesn't like an,

an amazing and very difficult job of speaking both to people that barely pay attention to politics and the hyper engaged partisans and pundits and politicians and activists with a message that kind of works for both. Like we just really incredibly like stop checking five 38 and do something. Yeah.

which I will not do, but I will do something. But I will also check 530. You can do both. Go to votesaveamerica.com. That's right. That would be doing something. 75,000 volunteers to show up. We got 40,000 now. We need 35,000 more in the next 25 days. Votesaveamerica.com slash 2024. Wow. Pretty good. Pretty good. I'm saying I want 75,000 on top of the 40,000. It's not inclusive for me. Dan, what'd you think?

When they go low, love it goes higher. Yeah, that's right. Barack Obama is the best speaker in the Democratic Party, but the second best speaker in his family. Which he said in his speech as well. It is just the way, like every person who is in politics should watch all of Michelle Obama's convention speeches, starting in 08 and every single one. And I watched the 2021, which is one of the starkest warnings about Donald Trump because you remember they were just videos. They were just two camera remarks. Right.

And she talks like a normal person to normal people. There is no speechifying. There is no like lofty rhetoric about the founders or you're not like cosplaying the Kennedys in your head when you do it. It's just like,

It always sounds like if you've ever had a conversation with Michelle Obama, it sounds like this, right? When she's telling you to do something, she's asking you to do something, she's explaining something to you, it sounds like this. And it is just so effective. And in her 2020 speech, she said, you all know I hate politics, right? So me doing this tells you how serious, I'm paraphrasing here, the situation is. And that's the vibe, right? She's not political. And there was a genuine...

love and affection for Kamala Harris that was so powerful in there. Yes. Like that she understood her life. She understood her experience. A kindred. And they have become friends. They're close friends. They both live in D.C. They hang out. It's just it's very I thought it was just very, very meaningful the way it was done. I've been thinking about the reason that the way she went after Donald Trump was so effective. Like why that was. And I think it's like

We've heard so many lines from politicians, politicians we love over the last however many years now about Donald Trump. And some of them are like really harsh and really slam him. And I think that like her indictment of him was like the most devastating, even though it wasn't as sharp because like...

She told a story about him and about what he represents versus what Americans actually value in life. And she did it with a certain subtlety. It wasn't very subtle until everyone understood that it was a full frontal attack. But it's always bothered... I have this thing where everyone who criticizes now, when they go low, we go high.

I think it was a misunderstanding of what that meant. I've always thought it was a misunderstanding. She was not saying with, when they go low, we go high, like they get down and dirty and attack. And we turn the other cheek and do that. But she, she, she did it. She kind of corrected it tonight. She was like,

they're really small and we have to go really big. And that's what she did in her indictment of Donald Trump. It was much bigger than like cheap applause line attacks. It was like, he does not stand for what we value as Americans. And I thought it was like so much more powerful. There's something I look, Doug speech into Michelle speech into Barack Obama speech were, I think,

Pound for Pound, the three best speeches in a primetime that I've ever seen. And I think it's because each of them started from a place of, why am I here? Yeah.

And what is the single most effective thing I can do? What is the speech only I could give that's the most persuasive speech I can personally give for Kamala Harris? What are the strengths I bring to achieve the goal? Every person on that stage tonight cares and understands how important it is to fucking win. And what they were focused on is trying to figure out the best and most exquisite case that they can make based on who they are, their values,

their experiences, their kind of place in, you know, whatever, American politics, to make that argument. And they each did that, and it was incredibly effective. And one thing I think, like, well, it's a feeling I feel when I watch them now post-presidency, and I wonder if you guys feel this way, which is that they... I worked for Obama from 2004 to 2013. They...

so much racism and bullshit and just like vicious attacks, especially Michelle. Yeah. And they had to...

in some sense, turn the other cheek on those attacks, or at least not directly call them out as racist when they were. For example, the birther stuff. We never said, hey, that's racist, Donald Trump. Stop doing that. Because we knew Barack Obama would be called an angry black man. He'd be accused of playing the race card, right? It'd be the OJ trial over again, right? And he took a high road. But now he's like, I don't have to do that. And she doesn't either. And they can just be brutally honest and respond to him in the way he deserves. Donald Trump, that is.

But even now, they also knew that, like, it's not like they just had to turn the other cheek because they would be accused of playing the race card. They knew that, like, again, to Lovett's point, politically, the best thing to do to actually, like, win the election and advance the cause is to not...

get yourself baited into what the Republicans want, which is like an argument and debate over identity and over race. And even the way she did it tonight when she said like, and he is, he wants to make people afraid of just two of us, of two people who just happened to like work hard and become successful and rise to a highest station in life who happened to be black.

Right. Who happened to be black. And like just the way that was just like a perfect way. It's elegant. It's an elegant phrasing. She's directly calling out the racism in the attack. Of course. But but in a much more elegant way than I think most Democrats do. There is just something about the way a lot of the Democrats last night went after Trump that was very.

It's overly online. It's like referencing something that went viral that Trump did or some controversy only known to political junkies. It's very like MSNBC, Twitter. You didn't think the Covfefe video was good? Didn't work. Or Positive American Referential, right? And the way the Obamas did it was they talked to people about Donald Trump where you would understand the critique if you don't follow politics because that is our audience. Right.

That is the only audience that matters. It is not to send a thrill up the leg of Democrats who are going to vote no matter what and work hard no matter what. Those Democrats were thrilled in there, let me tell you. And she, again, the reason she's so good is that the audience in the room was just...

It was crazy. It was electric. And no one wrote the applause better than her. She fought. She shut down so many silly chants and things going on. She's like, kept going. Yeah. All right. Last but not least, noted Chicago native Barack Obama closed out the night with a speech to the delegates. Let's listen. Here's a 78-year-old billionaire who has not stopped whining about his problems since he rode down his golden escalator nine years ago.

It has been a constant stream of gripes and grievances that's actually been getting worse now that he's afraid of losing the commonwealth. There's the childish nicknames, the crazy conspiracy theories, this weird obsession with crowd sizes. It is one of the oldest tricks in politics from a guy whose act has, let's face it, gotten pretty stale. We do not need four more years.

of bluster and bumbling and chaos. We have seen that movie before and we all know that the sequel is usually worse. America's ready for a new chapter. America's ready for a better story. We are ready, President Kamala Harris. Kamala Harris won't be focused on her problems. She'll be focused on yours.

As president, she won't just cater to her own supporters and punish those who refuse to kiss the ring or bend the knee. She'll work on behalf of every American. All right, so I should disclose, I, you know, once a staffer, always a staffer, I volunteered to help a little, look at the speech a couple times. I mean, don't knock the three changes I made in the speech. There's one very important change. We don't, like, let's not let people be, we don't want to let...

Dan included the dick joke. Oh, Dan did the dick joke. Wow. That makes sense. Just so you all know, that was just in the moment. That was just in the moment. He just put his hands on the podium. I don't know. Maybe it wasn't. Or maybe he knew all along that that was a dick joke and nobody else did but him. I will not comment on it. What did you guys think of Obama's speech?

What is this journalistic ethics you've adopted for one second? Journalistic ethics is just weird to be like, oh, well, I was like talking about the speech. His badge says reporter all of a sudden has gone to his fucking head. We've all worked for this guy for a long time. We're here because of him. I think our conflicts are well-known. Here's what I was feeling when I was watching. First of all, it was very moving, especially he talked about Michelle's mother and how much it reminded him of his grandmother. It was very emotional.

What I was thinking when I was watching the speeches, I think one of the most frustrating and dispiriting parts of the last decade has been for a lot of people voting against Trump, stopping Trump at all costs. It's obvious. Of course, we must stop this man. Of course, this person shouldn't be in power. And for a lot of people, it isn't obvious. It feels like it shouldn't be 50-50, and yet it is. And what I really appreciated about this speech was

is instead of wringing our hands and being like endlessly sort of like, why is Trump here? Why is Trump here? This was a speech about why it was obvious, why it should be obvious, right? What are the values that he doesn't uphold that if you think about it, if you're reminded of what you care about, it will become obvious. This was a speech about making it obvious to people for whom it is not, why obviously somebody like Trump shouldn't be in power. And it was an incredibly effective argument for that reason.

I agree with that. That's great. I think one thing I just see is being in the room, because I don't think it came through on TV, is that there was obviously like uproarious applause at times, but people, especially when he was like talking about the country and polarization and the kind of country we can be and should be, like the audience was wrapped. Like they could not take their eyes off. It was like a very, very powerful place to be for that conversation. It was like he had the audience in his hand.

Just the thing I would say about the speech is, and this has been true of every Obama speech dating back to 2004, is that most politicians, and particularly Democrats, particularly in the Trump era, operate from the assumption that the only thing that keeps people from voting for us is ignorance.

And Obama has always understood that people who may not agree with us come at that from a place of experience and knowledge. And it is there our job to persuade them. It's not just that we yell our message in their face loud enough they'll get there. It's that they have a set of experiences in their lives that may make them feel not immediately welcome in our party. And it's our job to welcome them in. And this was true of Michelle Obama's speech. It's true of Barack Obama's. You're starting this with a place of persuasion.

Right. Everyone is someone we have to persuade. And if they don't agree with us, they don't agree with us on everything. But the reason I don't agree with it is not because they're wrong or they're stupid or they don't follow the news or they're ignorant or they've been hoodwinked or whatever else. It's that something in their lives has not worked out the way they wanted or they don't full or they just in their life experience don't agree with us on something. So we have to go get them and bring them in. And that is just such a powerful force. And it's just so different than I think what we hear a lot in this era from politicians. Yeah. I mean, honestly, it, it,

Brought me back to 2004 and being on the floor of the DNC in Boston. And some of that was like very purposeful and deliberate. There were allusions to those lines, like conventions have always been good to, you know, a skinny guy with a funny name was the line in 2004. But it was also a patriotic story about freedom, about being an American, about things we have in common, shared hopes, shared dreams, and

It was just like a, it's a beautiful vision of America. And of course, like 2004, you got your policy section for Kamala and you got your tough hit on Trump. Like there was a tough hit on Bush back then. But ultimately, like it was a speech for everyone about bringing people together. It was patriotic.

And it was a, you know, just like a guy who loves the country and wants U2 too and wants it to be a little bit better and thinks we can make it better if we try to come together again and get past the last eight to ten years basically. He approaches these speeches like an organizer because he was an organizer.

And to Dan's point, when he talked about the speech, one of the first things he thought about was towards the end when he said, like, sometimes we think that winning is all about, like, out yelling the other side or scolding people. I mean, this is your point, right? And what we really have to do is actually, like, go out and listen to people and talk to people and persuade people and give people the grace that we would give our loved ones if we don't agree with our loved ones. And similar to Michelle, right?

You make political points by talking about relationships and the way that we are with people that we love. And it's about values, but not in the consultant value talk. Like, talk more about the middle class and optimism. Just name your values. I value work. Right, yeah. But like real actual values, like the way you go through life. And the other thing he really wanted to do and he did in the Trump section was...

And this has actually been a theme of a lot of the speakers, which is, you know, Trump...

has been seen and talked about as a threat to democracy. We talked about this last night, an existential threat to democracy, which we all believe he is. But, you know, nine years into this fucking Trump era, he's also like a clown and a fool. And attacking him that way, and Julia Louis-Dreyfus talked about this with us during our interview that you're going to hear, it's like the way to go after the...

supposed strength of an autocrat or a strongman is to just make them seem foolish because they hate getting made fun of. And he sort of mocked Trump and Michelle mocked Trump. And like, I think mocking Trump while still acknowledging, and Obama acknowledged in the speech too, that he can be dangerous. Like clowns, clowns with a lot of power can still be dangerous. We've all seen it.

Exactly. Yeah, we all get it. Right. But, um, but you gotta, but like, and just like, and just like Nate, like the exhaustion, the exhaustion of having a person who is, wants to be a leader who is in our lives all the time, who only fucking cares about himself, is only complaining about himself, whining all the time. And,

contrasting that with Kamala Harris, who cares about people, who is like, wakes up thinking about people, like that is a powerful contrast. And it was, it was Biden's contrast as well, right? It's like a through line from the whole campaign. Yeah, it's, there's something about what, what Obama is doing up there, which is he is,

He's not saying you're not wrong to be pissed or that there aren't people that you want to scold that are frustrating you. He's saying it's not the most effective thing. And being effective is all that matters. This was a night about being effective. The speeches themselves were models of what it means to be effective. And what he is saying in the speeches, this is how you be. Is Donald Trump a threat to us? Absolutely. But what's the most effective countermeasure?

case you can make. And one of the ways that we can be effective... And what do you do if you're talking to someone who doesn't think Donald Trump's a threat? Right. You still need to get their vote. And part of what he's saying is...

hey, we want to be a party people want to join, right? We want to be a place that everybody feels welcome. Does that mean that people aren't wrong and hold views that we find abhorrent? Of course it does. But what is effective? What is practical? What brings people in? And that was just so refreshing. This was a night about winning. There has been so much talk over the last month about how

the parallels between Kamala Harris 24 and Barack Obama 08, right? Just the, the pack crowds, the energy. But I think like just, we've known them for a long time. They see those parallels too, not in just, not in the superficial crowd and way, but just in the kind of campaign she's running and the kind of politician she is, right? She is running a fearless campaign where she knows she's the underdog, right? Like do it.

It seems like a small thing for most people in the world, but pulling off going live at your convention is a situation where one person tripping over a wire can embarrass the shit out of you on national television in front of 30 million people or ever watching tonight. But they did it anyway because they, you know, Barack Obama always says, if your name is Barack Hussein Obama, it doesn't matter what the polls say, you're an underdog. And if your name is Kamala Harris, you're an underdog. And she's running like an underdog. And she's also trying to build a movement that,

That's about people, not her, right? It's like Kamala Harris for the people. Kamala for the people is what? Or a future for the people. And I just really felt their passion for her and what she stands for and the kind of president she would be in those remarks. They were putting it on the line. Michelle Obama did not have to speak at this convention. Yeah, she wanted to. And it's 08 like in that.

People are genuinely excited about her and people are getting involved and reading about politics who normally don't pay a lot of attention. I think we're all probably hearing that in our lives. What's different than 08 is, look, I didn't agree with John McCain on a lot of issues, but if he had been president, I was like, well, he's a good man. You know, he's got a core decency to him. He'll do some things that I think are abhorrent, but I don't think that he's going to damage the country. Donald Trump is an existential threat.

to the nation, to democracy. And also people are excited about Kamala Harris. That's a pretty potent combination. And the other thing that's similar is that Obama was about turning the page on an era that had been going on for an overly long time. It was basically like Bushes running against Democrats for a long time. And this is Kamala Harris represents an end to this nine fucking years of Donald Trump. Yeah. Right. And the Democratic Party has not gone forward since Obama.

To his great credit, we went backwards. Hillary Clinton ran, and then Biden stepped up and ran. And we've never hit the post-Obama era. We've never turned the page unless we've had almost a decade where every single moment was about Donald Trump. And Kamala Harris, and I think the reason people are so excited, is there is a promise of something different. And her campaign is not about Trump, it's about her. And I think that is very compelling, and that's sort of what you heard in some of Obama's remarks tonight. I also think AOC last night

Doug Emhoff, Barack Obama, Michelle Obama. All very different people. Some in politics, some not. Some different ideological persuasions. Just...

Just shout out, Doug. You're in that sentence, man. Great job. Incredible. Entertainment lawyer. Also married up. That would be an amazing dinner party. You would not think there's like a common thread that like binds all those people together, but they all did something similar with their speeches, which is like invite people in to this movement, to this party who may not.

pay close attention to politics, may not necessarily be with us. And all of them are trying to grab people who just may not necessarily be with us and to bring them in. There's a moment with Doug that I really liked where he said Kamala Harris is a joyful warrior, but just because you're joyful doesn't mean you're a warrior. She's a warrior. And there's something about that that like

the thing Trump does is throws people off their game and they're just not being thrown off by Trump. She's not running away from being joyful. They're celebrating the laugh. They're like, they, it's really is a campaign that also just reflects the lessons of the last nine years. It's figuring out, it's like, it's this, the democratic party has adapted to Trump and in Kamala for the first time, you really see a campaign that's built around, uh,

his moves that kind of sees ahead of his moves. Well, and Michelle did a good job foreshadowing too. At one point she was like, and things are going to get tough and people are going to get nervous. She's been there. You're going to see the polls and you're going to, it's going to happen. Like everything's feeling great right now, but times are going to get tough. And when they do keep this feeling, keep this work.

She goes so big, but then she also goes real small. And it's like, you are going to get to work. You're going to make that call. You're going to give money. You're not going to whine about getting touched by the political director. I love it. She's so actionable with her demands. The last thing I would just say is if you are a Democratic politician, you're a speechwriter, you're a wannabe communications director, the speeches you just laid out, AOC, Doug, Barack Obama, Michelle Obama,

watch those speeches and don't emulate the cadence. Yeah, right. It's not the cadence. It's not about copying them, especially since they're all so different. Yeah, it is just look at how they gave the speech, look how the speeches weren't about themselves, look at how they told a story. It's just look at how they were not trying to go viral. None of them are trying to go viral.

A lot of Barack Obama stuff in the room. Like you said, it wasn't thunderous applause because he was thinking about the audience. It's hard to pick out a moment, too, because it really is an argument made over the course of a speech. It's a lot of amens behind us. You guys hear the guy last night when Biden was speaking and kept being like, Joe in his bag! I love that guy. He's so funny. He's so good. That guy's my favorite. Enough of that. Later in the show, you're going to hear our interview with Julia Louis-Dreyfus. But when we come back, our really fun

conversation with Kamala Harris's good friend and our senator from California, Lafonza Butler. And we came away, we're huge fans.

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Joining us tonight, fresh off her convention speech here in Chicago, is California's junior senator, our senator, and a longtime close ally of Kamala Harris, LaFonza Butler. Welcome to the pod, Senator. Thank you for having me. So you've known Kamala Harris for 15 years. A lot of the country is just getting to know her, even though they know that she's vice president. Can you tell us something about Kamala Harris that not a lot of people know but should know?

I think everybody knows everything, so I'm just going to tell you everything I know about her. How's that? So, look, I think she is one of the funniest, fun people that I have ever been around. She is warm in ways that you just couldn't really imagine. She's had to be an executive in office over and over again, and just to see her with my daughter,

And to see her hang out and invite my daughter over to a pool party at the VP's residence. Right? Yeah.

show her a good time, but also to see her grab the face of a stranger's kid and tell them how important they are and tell them how much the country is counting on their leadership. You know, to me, that's the best picture of Kamala Harris that I can give to the American people. It's a person who's fun and fun-loving, but not afraid to make hard choices while having a good time. That's great.

You were at a side a lot of the 2020 campaign as a senior advisor. What was it like being an advisor to her during that period? And what lessons do you think she learned from that campaign? Look, I think that she has learned very much how to go about introducing herself to the country. I think that was a critical lesson.

objective of her 2020 campaign. I think she did a good job in places where she was able to sort of dig in and spend some time. And I think the way that she's been in partnership with President Biden, giving her the opportunity to not just travel the country, but travel the world and really understand how to communicate quickly, effectively, but yet completely.

about particular issues, about herself. And I think that's an incredible skill that she has sharpened. And I think we're all witnessing the execution of this campaign, her ability to do that in a stronger way. Yeah.

That's been, I think, so refreshing and exciting for people. Even people who were excited about Vice President Harris, if Joe Biden steps aside being the candidate, or even people that love her are blown away by how she has just taken on this mantle, this incredible amount of pressure, and performed so well in such an authentic way. And it reminded me, I think we interviewed Kamala Harris back in 2017, 2018, and an incredible person on stage.

Was there some recognition that I think during that 2020 campaign, whether it was not talking about being a prosecutor or or all this sort of politics around lanes and and all the rest, like, is there a lesson there about what not to do about about how to disregard criticism or what do you think?

Look, I think there's, you know, in a crowded primary field, I think that experience was probably one that, you know, maybe will be unique for that period of time. And we had, you know, such qualified, extraordinary candidates in that primary. Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobuchar, Cory Booker. It was really the best of the best candidates.

of the bench of the Democratic Party. And I think all of them were trying to figure out, you know, how best do I make the strongest impression possible? And I think truly the lesson for so many of us that were on that campaign is just

forget about all of that. It is just be who you are, show up as authentically as possible, but with clear passion about what it is that you care about and a vision to communicate to the American people and let the chips fall where they may. And so I think what we see in this, in the execution of this campaign, but frankly, I think

Throughout the vice presidency and service with President Biden, since Dobbs and that Dobbs decision, she has just decided that there's so much at stake that she's not going to get it perfectly every time, but she's going to get it right every time because she's going to show up and be who she is and talk directly to the American people. And that's, to me, the exciting part about where we are.

So Joe Biden did something pretty rare in politics. He chose to voluntarily give up the chance to stay in power. You did the same thing when you chose not to seek reelection. How did you come to that decision? You know, it's interesting. I became a United States senator in 48 hours.

Senator Feinstein passed away late Thursday, early Friday morning. The governor, Governor Gavin Newsom, really had to figure out what his options were, and I think he spent a lot of time doing that on Friday. I got into conversation with him late Saturday.

I was my family and I were on a trip in Colorado and were flying back on Sunday when the news broke. And my mom found out the same way that everybody else did, that I was going to be a United States. And I literally was sworn in on Tuesday morning, October 3rd.

And so for me to be able to have the time to think about how do I serve my country and my state in this unprecedented and unpredicted moment is different from do I want to spend my life doing this? And in order to really, I think, show up as the kind of senator that Californians deserve,

It's got to be somebody who knows that this is what they want to spend their life doing. And, you know, for me, it was I have a nine year old daughter. She's going to be 10 in two weeks. The commitment that I had already made was that I was going to be the best mom for her.

And, you know, I had already made a commitment. And after going across California and really assessing could I raise the money, could I get the endorsements, could I change the playing field by taking endorsements away from folks who were already in the race, the answer to that was yes. And I knew that to be true. And so the question had to just become is it something that I wanted to do?

And I didn't. And so I didn't. That's interesting. You really thought about it. You got into it. Oh, no, I did the work. I got into it. I could tell you where the money was going to come from. I could tell you what endorsements I was going to take. Yeah, I did the work. I considered it.

I was clear with Governor Newsom I would not accept the appointment if I couldn't. If it was his expectation, then I wouldn't. Because people thought that, right? They thought there was some sort of a deal. I understand that, but that's...

Because they hadn't met me yet. It's not the kind of game I play. It's not how I roll. If I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it my way. And I think the governor appreciated that. You've been in politics for a long time. Activist, organizer, advisor. Having been in the Senate and been in an elected capacity, what did you learn about politics?

being in Washington that you didn't already know from your long career in politics? You know, it's a great question. And I spent a lot of time in my career adjacent to politics. I'd always sort of, you know, figured that I was just a step or two removed from those in the seat having to make the decision, but having the influence to be able to

persuade, engage, communicate effectively with those who are making the decision. And so now being the person that gets persuaded and engaged and communicated to effectively definitely changes the dynamic. But it has helped me to appreciate what I think is a fundamental element that we need to develop ourselves

our muscle in, and that is the partnership between the advocacy community and committed elected leaders. We see those old photos of Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. sitting in the president's office and in negotiation and conversation with folks around the March on Washington.

Those are conversations, those photos capture the kinds of relationships necessary to produce the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act and the Housing Rights Act. And so I think that we've got to figure out how we bring more

strategic collaboration between the advocacy community as well as the elected officials. And that's the thing that actually made it, has become more real for me being in this seat. Is there something you think advocates, is there something you came to understand that you realized, oh, this is something advocates are getting wrong or something you wish they understand now that you've been in this seat?

I think at the end of the day, it's about power, right? Like, getting to the outcomes that we want to achieve is about assessing, do I have enough power? Do we collectively have enough power to get there? And what I would love for our advocate community and being a part of it, I put this on myself as well, is that we spend a lot of time talking to the elected officials who we know are on our side.

And we don't spend enough time building our power with the folks who need to be persuaded. So does that make us think about our coalition formation differently in order to actually move the needle and get the next three votes that we need to? Do we change who goes to the meeting? Do we adjust our messaging a bit? And so not just spending so much time with the folks who are with us,

but actually doing the hard work to figure out how we find common ground with those who might not naturally be with us.

That's a great lesson to learn, I think, for all of us. Senator LaFonza Butler, thank you so much for coming on Pod Save America. And thanks for being our senator. Thank you for having me. Are you going to run for something else? I am not. That's a shame. Are you sure? I am not running for anything else right now. Oh, I like that right now. Just going to go be a mom for a while. I am. Great. Thank you all so much.

Okay, we're about to go to break. And when we come back, you're going to hear our conversation with Julie Louis-Dreyfus. But before we do that, I want to call your attention to a moment from Kamala Harris's event in Milwaukee tonight. No, no, we haven't already won. 77 days of work to do, my friends. Someone said you've already won. Like it's a fucking participation. What are you smoking then? Was it Michael J. Fox from the future? I hope so. It's

To her point, we haven't already won. That's our job. We got to do the work. That's why we're very excited to announce that Vote Save America has set a big goal. As we mentioned, 75,000 volunteer signups for their 2024 Organizer Else program by September 17th, National Voter Registration Day. Vote Save America is the absolute best at providing the highest impact ways you can take action right now to support down ballot races in must-win districts and build momentum for the Harris-Walls ticket. So we got currently 40,000 volunteers in the program, which means...

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Welcome back to Pod Save America. Julia Louis-Dreyfus. Yes. Thank you for welcoming me back. It's good to have you back. What are you doing here in Chicago at the convention? I just happened to be here and I thought I'd pop in. It's a great town. I actually went to college here. You did? Yes. Where'd you go to school? Northwestern. Oh, nice. Yes. I'm here because I am a tried and true Democrat, number one. And I'm

I came specifically for a few events, including I am hosting a panel of all the eight Democratic female governors. I'm doing that, I guess, today, this afternoon is how I should say it. And the link is in my bio. You guys are going to put the link because you can live stream it. And it should be hopeful. I mean, you know, to be honest with you, I hope it goes well. But it's eight people.

What are you guys going to be talking about? I don't know. You tell me. Are you asking them all questions? Yeah. Okay. And so I've got a list of things. You know, by the way, they have this complete, you may know this already, but, you know, they have this camaraderie. They've got a text chain going. They're all, it's a real... That sounds like a fun text chain. It actually does, right? And, um...

And so they're a very close group. And so I think it's going to be interesting to hear what leadership is like from their point of view. That's great. Yeah. I think maybe you start out by really insulting Kathy Hochul so that the rest know to be afraid of you. Or come to her defense. And then we see the sort of connection of the group in action. Or divide them. Whichever. Or divide. Yeah. Well, that'll be easy because it's women. It's easy to ruffle up women. Yeah.

This is not your first foray into politics. You've been really involved in the last several years in the Trump era. Pre-Trump, too, by the way. Pre-Trump, too. How did you make the decision to be active in politics, which is sometimes tricky for a celebrity of your status?

You know what? I had this feeling that if I didn't, I would feel guilty. So I had a feeling of responsibility. And I never, ever, ever, ever purport to be an expert on the issues because I ain't. But what I do try to do is shine the spotlight on people that I think should have a spotlight on them. Yeah. And...

And I'm very focused this election, too, on multiple down ballot races. So I'm doing a lot of work to raise awareness of various state legislature races and so on in various states. Because, you know, sometimes raising funds or awareness for those states

smaller as it were campaigns, not so small anymore in the sense that state legislatures have so much power and authority. And I think it's, you know, a few hundred dollars can go a very long way in races like that. Do you ever find, because there are plenty of people that aren't willing to do that. They're just like, I stay out of politics. I don't want people to know what I think about politics. I don't want to be involved. I understand that. Do you like...

Do you ever talk to people who feel that way and try to persuade them that they actually should, that it's worth it? Do you have any regrets about doing it? Talking to people about that? Or just like, do you ever, are there any downsides? Have you felt downsides to becoming active in politics? Because there are plenty of famous people who could be shining a light on issues who decide not to. Oh gosh, that's a good question. I, um, no, I don't think, speaking for myself, there hasn't been a downside for me. I just, I, um, uh,

I do feel frustrated sometimes with certain people that I know who don't sort of, I don't know, use their celebrity for good. You know, I've said this before, but I'm quoting Norman Lear. He used to say, celebrity is something you can spend. And, you know, you can spend too much of it. You can, in fact. And so one has to be careful and thoughtful about...

where you choose to spend it. And I choose to spend it in this way. Yeah. So what do you think of the switch, the big switch? Is it going to be a Biden convention? Now it's a Harris convention? Well, I have to say, first of all, it was absolutely the right thing to do. I'm delighted that it happened. It really, in my view, absolutely cements Biden's legacy as a hero.

in American history. This is just an extraordinary moment in politics. I just cannot get over what's happened in such a short period of time. I am so excited. I really am legitimately. It's a strange feeling. It's a strange feeling. Yeah. And isn't it fascinating how they have just tripled down on joy and light? It is. And please, Tim Walls,

Tim Hall. How great. And the fact that he has taken... He's... How can we say this? He has burst the bully bubble by...

not empowering him, even though should Trump be reelected, please may it not happen. That would be a terrible thing. But he is letting others know that we mustn't be afraid. We must approach this with strength and humor.

We should laugh at this guy. And it really bothers him when we do. And it kind of takes his power away from him. It's just good old-fashioned handling a bully tactics. I was going to ask you about that. So your character on Veep, Selina Meyer... Bully. ...found herself in an almost identical situation to Kamala Harris, but she has the personality...

Or more like Trump, at least. Much more like Trump. Do you have advice for Kamala Harris on how to approach Trump? And you think that the mockery and humor is a good way to approach it? Well, I mean, she's obviously found her voice and her authentic voice. I mean, that is in evidence, I think. I don't know if you guys agree with that. Yes, for sure. I mean, it is completely... I feel like she's found herself in front of our eyes. And...

As far as presenting herself and very really and honestly, we can tell this is who she is when she speaks. And she takes him very seriously, but she also takes his behavior not seriously. And I think that's important. She does both at the same time. So I want to ask you about your career just a little bit. Okay.

That's okay. Yeah, sure. It's not that interesting, though. Oh, I think it is. By the way, we... Well, anyway, I was going to talk about our plane ride. Oh, yes. We were on the same flight coming here. I heard. I just got Tony Goldwyn. He got you. He got me, and we were almost diverted to Milwaukee. Milwaukee, because of Air Force One landing. Yeah. Joe Biden. Joe Biden. My God. We were almost Trump voters by the time we landed. Yeah, exactly. Then we got drinks. I said, if we...

I was very jealous when I heard this. I know. I thought we were going to be renting a car and driving from Milwaukee to Chicago together. Dream come true. It would have been really good. So you've led multiple hit shows. Not a lot of people can say that. Okay. Okay, keep going. Okay. So there's a lot of people that they're incredibly funny in one time and place. Yeah. They don't really evolve. They get kind of stuck. How have you thought about staying curious about...

evolving as a performer even in different times. Just, you know, Seinfeld and Veep, as big as it can get, completely different styles, completely different tones. Yeah. Well, at the risk of sounding like an... Can you swear on this show? Oh, yeah. Like an asshole artist type. I have never approached my career by thinking of it like that. I approach it by...

I mean, I really like to work and I get very excited by material that provokes me and, um, in a good way. And, um, so that's been the driver and then I've just lucked out. But I mean, that has been the driver. Um, I, there, there are certain, uh, pitfalls to show business that I think I haven't fallen prey to. Like what? Um, uh,

the celebrity stuff, there's a kind of success that you can't really focus on because it'll fuck you up. It really will. I think it's really about material at the end of the day. And by the way, some things haven't worked out, but I don't have regrets about any of that. And by the way, when I say haven't worked out, I mean, haven't been huge hits, but that's okay because I have had a...

really, um, uh, I've had a really good time playing all sorts of different things. Well, the reason I was thinking about it is because like, so JD van says, I love diet Mountain Dew. And I think that's disgusting. You're gross. Yeah. Then Tim wall says, I love diet Mountain Dew. And I think I should try diet Mountain Dew. Okay. That's fascinating. It's because he has like charisma. Of course there's a policy difference, but like Tim waltz is charming. He

He has it. He's disarmingly charming. Yes. And I think a lot of times we try to make politics objective, but sometimes some people have it and some people don't have it. Correct. You have it.

Thank you. You do, but like you're beloved. I'm not running for office. I'm not running for office. You've played some of the biggest jerks. You've played beloved characters. But the same thing that carries them together is you have this charm, this charisma. What is it? What is it? John, come on. No, I want to know. What is it? Tim Walls has it. You have it. Kamala has it. Some people don't. Ted Cruz doesn't have it. What the fuck is it?

I can't, I can't, I think maybe they are sort of to what I said earlier. I think there's an authenticity in place. I think you're aware of the fact that J.D. Vance is not telling the truth about himself and that you're picking up on that. Same is true of Cruz. Same is true of Kevin McCarthy. All of these guys, there is a, and by the way, we can differ on, uh,

There are Republicans that are affable and charming. They are. There are. But there is a... People can smell a fake. Yeah. I think. Veep is...

One of the greatest shows ever. One of the greatest characters ever. Like, we are watching it again, my wife and I, like, for the fifth time. It's, like, up 350% now, the number of people who are, like, watching it now because of the situation we're all in. It really is timeless. Like, a lot of political shows tend to sort of, they age differently and...

I'm just wondering, like, what did Veep, because I also think that it's like the most accurate portrayal of the White House and politics of any political show. What did it teach you about politics?

Well, you came and spoke to our writers. Yeah. Because we had a lot of people come in who were in the weeds, as it were, and talk to us about that experience. You know, it was just a reminder, which is both good and bad, that these are really honestly just people like you and I are sitting here, just people who...

you know, wake up, have their coffee, go to the bathroom, you know, do everyday normal people things and they just happen to be in positions of government. And it's really that simple. And sometimes it fucks you up. And sometimes it fucks you up. Sometimes it brings out the worst in you. And sometimes it brings out the best in you. So it doesn't... It certainly...

One thing that was great about doing the show is that it gave us access to sort of inside politics in a way that was super interesting. And I'm kind of a nerd for that. I love it. But you did get to meet people who were very well-intentioned and well-meaning. Both sides of the aisle. I really mean that. And so...

Yeah, it was an extraordinary opportunity to meet people really trying to make the world a better place. Like, really trying to make...

Do the right thing. And that can be very inspiring. Yeah. Julie Lee Dreyfuss, thank you as always for coming on Hot Save America. Hey, it's my pleasure. So good to see you. It's so good to see you too. Good luck with all the governors tomorrow. Oh, God. What should I ask them for reals? Oh, that's a good question. Yeah. Come on, guys. Just give me a little something. Ask them to all have them give a little advice to Kamala.

Because they're all going to be very messagey, right? Every governor, they're going to get their talking points out, which is great. That's their job. Yeah, but they're not all... Yes, but they're not running. I don't think anybody's on the ballot. And so I'm hopeful that maybe we can avoid some of that, but I don't know. We'll see. Some of them...

Some of these governors are from states where they've been able to protect abortion access and some of them are from governors from states where they haven't been able to. And in the states where we, there are states we need to win where, like say Gretchen Whitmer has done an incredible job of making sure that abortion access is protected, but we need abortion to be salient for those voters, right?

And we found that in states where, like California or New York, people didn't feel like it was as much of a threat. How do they think about making sure people understand the threat Trump poses on abortion when they're working so hard to protect abortion access for their people? Right. Or they have a red legislature and they're dealing with... Yes, exactly. Oh, I go in too. What? There has become... There's a huge gender gap opening up in this election. There's...

a gender gap opening up even larger in Gen Z. So these younger voters, like there's young men are becoming like more Republican.

But people like Gretchen Whitmer, people like Maura Healey, they're like governors in states where they have won. Like there hasn't been as big of a gender gap and they've been like really appealing to like both men and women. And I think like talking about sort of the gender split there is kind of interesting to see how they deal with it. Because Gretchen Whitmer is like beloved in Michigan, like wins by overwhelming margins. Yeah. Rural areas, cities everywhere. So it's kind of interesting to know what her secret is.

Well, I think to what we were discussing earlier, I think they really pick up on her authenticity. Yeah. I just read her book when we were on our plane, by the way, and it's actually a really interesting read. Yeah. And it's very digestible. Yeah. Can I tell you something that I was embarrassed of on our plane ride? You were watching The Real Housewives. No, I was watching. I looked over and you were reading a physical book, a physical book.

a physical book and I was like, I have to take out my iPad and watch House of the Dragon. And I like was like trying to hide my screen. And then finally your husband took out an iPad and I was like, oh, thank God. Please don't read a book. Please don't read a book. And he didn't. He watched something. And I was like, fuck it. We can watch TV. I don't have to feel embarrassed about watching this bad reboot. I can be myself.

Have a cocktail. All right. Yeah, that's right. All right. Awesome. Thank you for coming on. Thank you. It was really nice to see you guys. That's our show for tonight, but we've got more from the DNC for our Friends of the Pod subscribers. Lovett and I answered some of your questions, did some behind the scenes, and played take appreciators. If you're a subscriber, these segments should be showing up as a separate episode in your Pod Save America feed. If you aren't a subscriber, head to cricket.com slash friends or sign up through the Apple Podcast app. See you all tomorrow.

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