Kamala Up, Lovett Down
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Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. On today's show, Kamala Harris' campaign drives a message on reproductive freedom with a searing new ad in a live-streamed event with Oprah Winfrey. Donald Trump tries to win over swing voters in New York, D.C., and the Fox News audience. And speaking of former reality TV stars, Dan, Tommy, and I hold our own tribal council.

with a Survivor contestant who was voted off early but can still win if Jeff Probst has the courage. Our very own John Lovett. Cannot wait. I cannot wait for this. Let's get through this politics and let's get to Survivor fast. Oh yeah, we're also going to talk about the Republican nominee for governor in North Carolina has called himself a black Nazi and posted on porn message boards. So...

We're going to get to that, too. It's quite a day here. All right. But first, we have had a polling tsunami in the 24 hours since, Dan, you recorded Wednesday's pod with Adisu, including the post-debate New York Times Siena poll that us sickos have been checking our phones for at 4 a.m. every morning.

I won't bore all you non-sickos with every top line and cross tab. But when you take all the high quality polling and averages together, here's what you get. Kamala Harris has about a three point lead nationally, a one point lead in Pennsylvania, a two point lead in Wisconsin and Michigan, and every other swing state basically tied.

under a point, either under a point with a Harris lead or a Trump lead. The Times had an especially interesting sort of head-scratching result. They have Trump and Harris tied at 47 nationally, which is a statistically meaningless one-point improvement from their pre-debate poll. But they also did a separate Pennsylvania poll that has Harris up 50 to 46, which is the exact same result as their last Pennsylvania poll a couple months ago.

Altogether, there were eight Pennsylvania polls that dropped this week, most of them in the last 24 hours, many from high-quality pollsters, and most of them did show movement to Harris from their previous polls, but still, one-point race in the most important swing state in the country.

So I know you and Adisu talked about the state of the race on Wednesday, but because I am a sicko, I had to talk to you about the pole-pocalypse, the polling tsunami. I'm trying out different... It's not even a pole-pocalypse because the polls are actually kind of good. Yeah, I know. It's kind of like snow-pocalypse. Remember that in D.C.? I do remember snow-pocalypse, yes. Anyway, what's your take from Time Sienna and how can they have the race tied nationally but Harris ahead in Pennsylvania? Yeah.

Shouldn't it be the other way around? It doesn't make a ton of sense, right? Biden won the popular vote in 2020 by four and a half points. He won Pennsylvania by 1.2 points. So if these two times polls are correct and Kamala Harris is tied nationally with Trump, but not by four points, that's a seven point swing.

Over the course of four years, which seems just impossible to imagine. And it is different than the polling averages, right? Which have Harris, as you mentioned, up three, up one in Pennsylvania. That makes a little more sense. That's sort of consistent with 2020. Now, I will say, and Nate Cohn, to his credit, Nate Cohn, the person in charge of the New York Times-San Antonio polling, wrote a column where he wrestled with this conflicting result. And I think, to his credit, is more willing to

address the possible fallibility of the polls they do than any other media pollster. So he's willing to say like, maybe it's not right. Here's some reasons it might be right. And one of the things within the poll that I think is interesting, which could suggest that maybe the electoral college Republican bias may be shrinking, is in the Pennsylvania poll, Trump has a four-point lead on the economy. Nationally, he has a 13-point lead.

And the reason why I think that's interesting is maybe it is noise. Maybe it's just an overly friendly Pennsylvania sample. But it's also true that Pennsylvania has seen more messaging than any state. It's where Kamala Harris campaigns the most. It's where the most money is spent on ads. And so it would make sense that if she is making progress in defining herself as

particularly on the economy where they're spending the most money, that you would see those results in Pennsylvania first because in the vast majority of the country, the people are seeing no Kamala Harris communications at all, no Trump communications. They are bystanders to the race. And then the one other point here, and just like I said, it could all be noise, it could be wrong, but Jacob Rubashkin of Inside Elections pointed out that just a decent-sized drop in the Democratic margin in big states like New York and California would shrink the national popular vote margin by at least a point.

And there is a separate Siena College poll which shows Harris underperforming Biden's 2020 numbers in New York, although still winning by a lot. So a lot to unpack here, but it seems unlikely, but it is possible. There's a where on which it is true that you could be essentially tied nationally or, you know, up a point or down a point because it's all in the margin of error and have a little lead in Pennsylvania.

The scenario where Democrats are doing slightly worse in non-swing states, and that's what shrinks the electoral college advantage for Republicans, is similar to what happened in 2022 in the midterms, where all these national polls showed it closer. People still thought maybe a red wave was coming. Some of that was just Republican pollsters putting out garbage polls. But

In these swing states where Democrats were running races and pouring all money and time and energy and resources and volunteers into, those Democrats just tended to do better than just Democrats in states where we weren't as focused because they weren't as competitive.

And so, you know, we did see that in the midterm. So it is possible. I also think, I mean, you said it initially, like if the national average is three, if she's up by three, then a poll that comes out with her tied is

fits with a national average of her being ahead by three because these are all it's still margin of error. Even when you do polling averages, it's still margin of error because it's just a larger sample of voters. And so that's not too crazy. And then, you know, a poll that shows her up being four in Pennsylvania when the averages show up one.

Same thing. It's like it's it's not crazy, right? Like you just get polls that are going to be, you know, if the average is one, you're going to get some polls that are up four, up five, some polls where she's down three or four. Like that's just the way polling works. So we've now had enough polling, though, that I think we can assess the impact of the debate. Right. We're more than a week out from the debate. We've now had just more polls than we've had in one given period, maybe in the whole race. What would you say is the impact of the debate?

The impact of the debate is similar to the impact of Donald Trump being convicted of a felony and Donald Trump being shot in the ear, which is about a point. And it's just the other matter that this is a game of inches. And you're just not seeing gigantic movement. And even within the national – if you look at the Times pre-debate poll and the Times post-debate poll, the two numbers that stick out are the number of people who feel like they need to know more about Kamala Harris is virtually unchanged from –

The previous poll, the number of people who think that she is a risky choice or represents more of the same, another number worth noting, is basically unchanged. And so for – I think she did herself good. She's – a lot of the polling says she's improved her favorability rating and other polling, but it has not been enough to as of yet move people who were in the undecided category into her category. And that's I don't think hugely shocking, but it's just a reminder of like what slow grinding work this election is.

Maybe this is a rosier take, but I think if you squint at the polling since the debate, it shows slight movement toward her, right? And even digging into that Times poll, it's true that the percentage of people who said they need to know more about her hasn't really changed. It's down two points. Yeah, and when they asked a question, did you learn a lot from

a little, nothing at all about Kamala Harris and Donald Trump because of the debate. Like the percentage of people who said they learned a lot or some about her that was new was much higher than Donald Trump, which is not surprising. But, and it was also like a, it was like in the 30s, 40s. And that's a pretty, especially for some subgroups, right? And that's a pretty good number, I think. And the fact that she has rising favorability, remember, she has a different,

here, different task ahead of her than Donald Trump does. Everyone knows who Donald Trump is and Donald Trump's trying to disqualify Kamala Harris. Um, everyone knew who Joe Biden was too with Kamala Harris. There's just, we've said she has so much more room to grow. And as you see her favorability creeping up, even as all this money is being spent against her by Donald Trump, um,

on ads, especially in a state like Pennsylvania. And her favorability is going up anyway. And I think the debate for the people who watch the debate, and again, the poll shows this to the Times poll. If you watch the debate, you are much more likely to support Kamala Harris than if you didn't watch the debate or if you had just heard about the debate. And so I think for people who watch that debate, they tended to come away with a more favorable impression of her.

They got to know more about what she stands for. For a lot of people, for a lot of undecided voters, not enough still. But they learned some. And they were reminded what a jackass Donald Trump is. And so I think that she did some good work. Oh, for sure. You know? What would you say she has left to do? What's her to-do list for the next six weeks? It's to fill in the rest of the...

on everything, and particularly the economy. That is the one thing that stands out, even though there were those, I think those very good numbers in Pennsylvania,

When you go back and you watch that debate, the economy is an afterthought. It was the first couple of questions. Her answers were good in that question. The message has been seen afterwards showing that those were some of her best, most popular answers with swing voters, but they're not the things that are being sent around on TikTok and Instagram and getting covered in the media. And so, you know, her biggest task was to educate people about her approach to the economy. And she didn't get as much of an opportunity to do that as I think she would like. So that stands out as a huge, huge,

task for her. And it's just, I think you have it exactly right. People learned a lot about her, but they still want to know more. So she made progress, but she hasn't closed the sale. And so it's to spend the next seven weeks continuing to fill in that picture for this very critical, very small slice of voters that she needs to put her over the top.

I think she could use an answer on the economy for whatever interviews she does that is a little tighter, a little more focused, and a little broader in who her plans will help. I think that, and I think this was the right thing to do, but during the debate and maybe in the couple interviews she's done since then, there's a lot of talk about

her values she's a middle class kid she cares about the middle class and you know that's great that's probably what every consultant told her to do as they should and you want and especially with someone who's not as defined as her you want to ground your plans in your values so I totally that's right but then she sort of it's like a lot of words to get to she gets to the housing stuff at some point and

She then gets to the child care tax credit. But listening to focus groups since the debate, Sarah Longwell's focus groups, reading some of the New York Times focus groups of undecided voters, what you get from some people is it was nice to hear that stuff. I don't necessarily know that it was going to apply to me like that.

How am I going to be helped under a Harris presidency? What's she going to do for me? And also, you know, she didn't give a straight answer on the economy and it took her too long. And I couldn't quite get what she was saying. So I think like I mean, she's got a tax cut, a middle class tax cut that's going to go to 100 million Americans. Right. Like I would go right to that. And then with every policy that she has proposal, I would have a contrast with Donald Trump. Right.

So what do you want to do in the economy? Well, you know, Donald Trump wants to give a tax cut to billionaires. I want to give a tax cut to 100 million middle class Americans. Right. I want to make sure I want to lower the cost of health care even more. I want to lower the cost of drugs even more. Here's how I do that. Right. Like, I think whatever the list is, just pick like five things and have that be your thing that you say everywhere and all your surrogates say and it's in ads and everything else. Yeah, I think that she needs a five. Yeah.

I don't want to say a five-point plan, like you don't have to put it on a card or anything, but it is, I'm going to lower prices for you by stopping price gouging. I'm going to lower housing costs by capping rent costs and making sure we build more homes. I'm going to lower the cost of healthcare while Donald Trump's going to repeal the Affordable Care Act. And I'm going to give the largest middle-class tax cut in history or whatever the right way to say it, the fact check appropriate way of saying that is, paid for by asking the wealthy and corporations to pay a little bit more. Boom. Done.

I'm glad you mentioned the price gouging because I know all the fucking nerds out there, the policy nerds are a little so-so on the price gouging proposals. It's like, you know what? Kamala Harris, she has a record on this. When she was attorney general, went after the big banks on behalf of homeowners, succeeded. Went after for-profit colleges screwing over students, succeeded.

She can go after, she can talk about her record and then talk about how she's going to go after companies that are just gouging consumers and jacking up prices for no good reason. And I think it's an extremely popular proposal. It's something that she's going to feel comfortable saying because she has a record on it. And it suddenly just sort of fell out of her answers after the convention. And I'm not sure why. I'm glad you have reignited one of the great rivalries in American life, publicization.

policy nerds versus polling nerds. Or, you know, people who want to win elections. I don't know. People who are pissed about rising prices and would like someone to go after corporations and hold them accountable. I don't know. Anyway, let's talk about what the two campaigns are doing to win over the potential swing state voters who are still undecided with six weeks to go. Donald Trump is busy storming the battlegrounds of New York and D.C.,

On Wednesday night, Trump held a rally at the Nassau Coliseum on Long Island before heading to Manhattan to appear on Greg Gutfeld's primetime show. A real surgical targeted approach to campaigning with a message to match. Here's some of what he said. Patriotic New Yorkers must get your asses out to vote. Get it, get it, get it, get it.

up, Harry. Harry, get your fat ass out of the couch. You're going to vote for Trump today, Harry. But I'd say, baby, who could do it like me? Nobody can do it like me. How great am I? In the next two weeks, I'm going to Springfield and I'm going to Aurora.

You may never see me again, but that's okay. Gotta do what I gotta do. Whatever happened to Trump? Well, he never got out of Springfield. Americans deserve a campaign based on the issues. We try and keep it on the issues. You know, they said I'm the GOAT in debates, 'cause I had a lot of debates, and I became president. And the GOAT means greatest of all time. -All right. Thank you. -And they didn't correct her once, and they corrected me everything I said practically.

I think nine times or 11 times. And the audience was absolutely, they went crazy. They said, Joe, it's over. You're getting out. And he said, I'm not getting out. You're getting out. And they put her in and she somehow, a woman, somehow she's doing better than he did. Yeah. But I can't imagine it can last. Look, he's just trying to have a campaign on the issues. We should note that, of course, there was no audience at the debate.

Can you imagine? I hate, I don't love this. But can you just imagine if Joe Biden, we would have, there would be 700 news cycles about it. He imagined a debate audience. He imagined. We're like, that's fine. He's just what wacky Trump. He's not this fucking brain is melting before our eyes.

I think it's more like he lies so easily, right? And like all the only thing that's going on in his brain is like, how can I talk about how wonderful I am? How great I am? How many people love me, right? People love me everywhere. There's audiences everywhere I go. There's crowds. They're screaming. People are coming up to me. Grown men, they're crying. Mr. Trump, you're wonderful. Right? It's sort of that part of his brain that's just like, no matter what he's talking about, doesn't matter what actually happened.

He just needs to talk about how the crowds loved him. Whatever he did, the crowds loved him. And then other people who are running against him and don't like him are treating him unfairly. That's it. When you have that in your mind, everything else is pretty easy to talk about. Well, I would just say that 70-year-old Trump could keep all the shameless lies together a little bit better. And at this age, it's just like he can't even figure it out. Also, what was he doing there with Kamala Harris? A woman. Yeah.

Well, he's legitimately shocked he got his ass kicked in a debate by a woman. He's never going to get over that. I kept listening to that clip because I'm like, is this one of those where liberals are like, look how sexist he was just blatantly and openly and misogynist. But like, no, I don't know what else he was trying to do there. But just say a woman. I don't know how long that can last. What is he doing in New York? I've tried to think about this and figure this out. Like, what was he doing on Long Island?

I think he needed, after several tough weeks and the most boring town hall that Trump could ever do with Sarah Huckabee Sanders in Michigan on Tuesday, he needed his people. He needed just a confidence boost from a bunch of Long Islanders screaming his name in cheer. I really think that's what it was. He's in a funk. I think he's in a funk and the campaign is trying to pick him up.

I do not believe he's there to win the house. I do not think Donald Trump is spending his time. I know I saw that somewhere. I'm like, I don't think that makes a lot of sense. I know that he's part of it is like his message, you know, like liberal blue America is a hell hole and it's crime ridden and immigrant invasion and all that kind of stuff. But like, I don't know, you could do that in a swing state. Yeah, maybe.

You could... It's very weird. You and I have talked before about how Trump's strategy is more about disqualifying Harris in the eyes of undecided voters than trying to win over new Trump voters. Do you think he's even making progress on that? On tearing down Harris? Because...

This poll in Pennsylvania, her favorability keeps going up, even where they're running out millions of dollars of ads, super PAC ads. All these ads are out. He says crazy shit all the time. He's taking up news cycles. He's talking about eating the pets in Springfield. He's doing all this shit, but it doesn't seem to be making a dent in her favorability or her poll numbers. I guess it is depriving her of breaking through with her message, but I don't know. What do you think?

It seems to be an abject failure on all fronts. We've talked from the moment Kamala Harris got in this race, there was now a race to define her. Who was going to win? Kamala Harris or Trump? Her favorability rating is up a net 15 points since she got in the race. That's an astonishing increase over a short period of time for someone who was not unknown. She was the vice president of the United States at the time. And so it is failing. Now,

There's still another segment of voters, like a slice of persuadable voters that they're both fighting over. There's no evidence that he has damaged her with them yet, but there's not evidence that she has fully won them over yet. So in terms of defining her, he has lost that battle, but now we are down to the last group of voters in a small handful of States. Most of those people have honestly not really checked into this election yet. So we haven't even really contested them. So that, you know, that's what we'll sort of see. And that's who these ads that are running, like for instance, the,

Kamala Harris abortion ad, which ran during Survivor, for instance, which we watched last night, obviously. Or the Trump folks have a new ad with Kamala Harris talking about Bidenomics that is running all over the swing states. They're trying to get to those voters by osmosis. But as a campaign strategy, he has failed to put a debt in her numbers.

Yeah. One strategy Trump seems to be flirting with is an old favorite of his trying to shut down the federal government. Mike Johnson's once again having trouble getting all his goofballs in line before the looming deadline of October 1st. And even though Mitch McConnell just said, quote, it would be politically beyond stupid for us to do that right before the election, because certainly we get the blame.

Donald Trump begs to differ. He wrote on Truth Social that Republicans should only vote for a spending package that includes the SAVE Act, which imposes more requirements on states to make sure that non-citizens aren't registering to vote, which, of course, doesn't really ever happen and is already illegal. It also, by the way, doesn't have the votes to pass Congress. Clearly, Trump and Vance want to be able to say that the government shut down because Democrats refuse to require proof of citizenship to vote.

What do you think of that strategy? That is a stupid person's idea of a smart plan. Like it seems good on paper, but it would definitely not play out that way. It's an absurd provision that is unnecessary, makes no sense. They'd be left out of town. And we just know from history that the side that initiates the shutdown is

Gets the blame for the shutdown. And that would be the House Republicans who just happen to have 13 seats they are trying to defend. They're either toss up or lean Republican. And so it seems like a terrible idea across the board and would obviously hurt people because when the government shuts down, people are denied needed services and money, etc. But pure idiocy from them.

Also, you heard Mitch McConnell and there's a bunch of Senate Republicans that don't. And every House Republican is up, has a campaign. And everyone that's in a competitive race, every House Republican, every Senate Republican, they're not going to be too happy with a government shutdown just like five weeks before the election that they're held responsible for because they wanted to pass something that no one really is clamoring for.

Something that no one wants or needs. Yeah. Or need. Yeah. Right. Right. So I don't know. I don't know. I would guess that when push comes to shove, Mike Johnson does what he always does and has to end up like passing something with the help of Democrats and drops the SAVE Act. And that's that. Yeah. They just kick the can down the road after the election. That's what happens. That's what that's what it feels like. But nice to see Trump get involved there. Pod Save America is brought to you by Helix.

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We got some absolutely bonkers news in North Carolina to talk about. Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson, currently the Republican nominee for governor, is a well-known whack job who's flirted with Holocaust denial, called LGBTQ people filth and maggots, called Beyonce satanic, and called Michelle Obama a man. He also frequented the video booths of a porn shop five nights a week back in the early 2000s. And yet somehow,

Andrew Kaczynski at CNN broke a story about him today that was so bad that it led North Carolina Republicans to try to get him off the ballot, to get him to drop out last minute. The deadline is Thursday midnight. We're recording this before. You'll listen to this after. So we'll see what happens. So what's the story? Apparently, someone using an online alias that Robinson often used himself.

With his same birthday and email address was a frequent poster on the message board of a porn site called Nude Africa from 2008 to 2012, among the highlights. He told the message board that he loves porn featuring trans people. I'm quoting him here, quote, I like watching tranny on girl porn. That's fucking hot. It takes the man out while leaving the man in. And yeah, I'm a perv too.

It got more graphic and CNN actually declined to print all of the details because they were too graphic. So what I just said was not the too graphic part. Robinson also talked about being a kid and stumbling into a spot at a local university where he could spy on women showering through a grate in the wall.

Robinson proudly referred to himself as a, quote, black Nazi in another post and, quote, said slavery is not bad. Some people need to be slaves. I wish they would bring it back. I would certainly buy a few. And he called Martin Luther King Jr., quote, worse than a maggot and, quote, a ho fucking phony. So this is as good a place as any to remind you all that Donald Trump has endorsed Robinson.

and often praises him. Here's a helpful highlight reel that the Harris campaign put together. Mark Robinson, he's out there, he's fighting. A very good man. This is Martin Luther King on steroids. I think you're better than Martin Luther King. I think you are Martin Luther King times two. I think he's going to go down as one of the great leaders in our country. I've been with him a lot. I've gotten to know him and he's outstanding. He's outstanding in presentation, but he's

Probably even more outstanding in heart. Somebody that we have to be very, very careful. We have to cherish. We have to cherish Mark. He's a star. You have to cherish him. It's like a fine wine because that's what you have. You have a fine wine. He's an outstanding person. I've gotten to know him so well and fairly quickly. He's a fine wine. Martin Luther King times two. Fine wine. Got to know him really well. Before we get to Trump, I want to put you on the record here. Do you regret your posts on New Delaware? No.

Do not besmirch the state of Delaware like that. Okay? We've done enough to tell her this. Yeah. Back off my home state. A place I'd love to return to one day. Robinson was already down in the polls to Josh Stein, Democrat running for governor. I'd imagine he'll fall even further behind now unless he... Because he caught himself a...

Nazi on a porn site? Black Nazi? Because he said he wants to bring back slavery and he'd buy a porn site. That's the thing. These aren't things he posted on Facebook. These are things he posted on a porn site. So first of all, I guess by the time, again, by the time you all listen to this, we'll know what happened. It doesn't seem like the Republicans who want him out of the race are going to succeed at pushing him out of the race. He and his campaign have said they're not going anywhere. He said, you know, you can do strange things with the Internet now.

Like he just thinks they're just denying it. They're saying that it was made up. Donald Trump's campaign apparently told NBC news. Well, we're not trying to push him out, which is amazing to say. So it seems like he's staying in unless something dramatically changes in the next, I don't know, a couple hours. I mean, you can't force him out. He had, you have to, he has to decide to stay in the race. I am not fully convinced that at least some people around Trump are not trying to get him out because he's

North Carolina is polling better than Georgia, which doesn't make a ton of sense demographically. One of the main reasons that's the case is Mark Robinson's on the ballot. So if you get Mark Robinson off the ballot, theoretically, North Carolina becomes a little bit easier for Trump. And so I don't know. It'll be interesting to see what happens here. And if he stays in the race, he is a zombie candidate, right? All the money dries up. People stop campaigning for him. He won't be seen with people. It'll be very interesting to see what happens when Trump comes to the state.

Will he be with Mark Robinson or not? Also, Mark Robinson at the Republican convention was the one in the North Carolina delegation that gave the, gave the announced the delegates for Trump. He's just, here's what I'm trying to figure out. Like you could imagine a bunch of Trump Stein voters, right? They vote for the Democrat for governor because these were for these Republicans, Mark Robinson's a bridge too far. And then they vote for Donald Trump. But like,

If Robinson stays in the race and you're the Harris campaign, like, do you run some ads like the one we just heard or just like the video we just heard or put some ads together with Donald Trump and Mark Robinson together and try to try to make this hurt Trump a little bit in the state? Yeah, I think you do. I think you tie Trump to Mark Robinson's extremism and make them all extreme. There's a we just did this in a forthcoming episode of Political Experts React episode.

that I did with Chris Hayes, where he looked at Josh Stein's first ad about Mark Robinson, just using Mark Robinson's words. So you can put the two of them together and you make it really about MAGA extremism. Not just that he, it's not that he called him one of the King times two or all of that is that they are birds of a feather.

In terms of the extremism, it's less the porn site and the porn booths and all the other porn. It's more the things he said about like threatening death to people and shooting people and all of the political violence. Black Nazi slavery. Yeah. Go on whatever porn site you want to go on, Mark Robinson. But that's too far for us. Yes. Yeah. Right. Okay. Well, we're going from North Carolina, one swing state to the other swing state of Nebraska.

Actually, just the second congressional district. If you're looking for reasons to worry about the race, here's one. You may know that Harris's most likely path to 270 runs through the second district of Nebraska. It's one of only two states that splits its electoral votes. If Harris wins Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, loses all the other battlegrounds, but wins the Nebraska second district, she gets exactly 270.

But Nebraska Republicans appear to be reviving their efforts to change the state law and make Nebraska winner take all, which would deprive Kamala Harris of that electoral vote. And then if she wins the blue wall, it would be 269-269. And Trump wins an electoral college tie because Republicans have more state delegations in the House. So Lindsey Graham, of all people, is helping to whip the votes there to make the change. Unclear whether it's going to happen.

Also unclear whether Maine, the other state that splits its votes, could respond to deny Trump the one electoral vote he's likely to get in the Maine 2nd Congressional District. Though it does seem like they will not have time to do that in Maine because apparently when you pass a law in Maine, it takes 90 days to take effect.

90 days from now, whoop, pass the election. So trouble in Maine, and it makes you wonder if the Nebraska Republicans waited this long just to sort of jam Maine and make sure that didn't happen, but...

What do you think? What's the latest on all this and how worried are you about this? I'm quite worried about this. As you know, I've been worried about this for a long time. I've just been under the – my view has just been this was – particularly when it was Biden-Trump, that this was potentially a game-set match for Trump if they were able to make this change.

What the governor has said is he's willing to call a special session, but he needs the 33 Republican senators necessary to pass it to be publicly in support of doing it. They do not have the votes yet, as far as we can tell. Some of the people who were in the meeting with Graham and the governor say that there was some progress in the meeting, but so –

We will see. They have to do this quickly too because they still have to print ballots, et cetera, in Nebraska. But this is one thing that will keep me up at night until it is fully resolved in a good way. Yeah. So Dave Weigel had reported this at Semaphore that one of the Republicans that they would need is a former Democrat, left the party because he's anti-choice, but wants to run to be mayor of Omaha, which would be pretty hard to do if you piss off

Everyone who's ever been a Democrat by deciding to do this. So, again, they still don't have the votes yet. But, yeah, when it comes down to everything, depending on pressuring a few Republicans in Nebraska, it doesn't doesn't feel great. Yeah.

So Trump and Harris were both hoping this week for an endorsement from the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. The union's president, Sean O'Brien, had appeared at the Republican National Convention and his meeting with Kamala on Monday was described as tense at times. But on Wednesday, the union announced it wouldn't be endorsing either candidate. As part of the announcement, the Teamsters released the results of internal straw polls showing that members favored Trump by more than 20 points.

After the announcement, a handful of local Teamsters chapters endorsed Harris, representing a million members altogether, including in some of the key swing states.

How big of a deal do you think this is? What do you make of that internal straw poll showing that more Teamsters favor Trump than Harris? Is it a big deal? What do you think? I don't think it's as big a deal as people think. Back in the day, when you would get a labor union endorsement, it would open up a spigot of money and organizing muscle that truly mattered a lot in the battleground states. That's not really the case anymore. The Harris campaign has all the money they need. They have a ton of organizing muscle. The unions are not as powerful and flush with money as they used to be.

And having the endorsement of the Michigan and the Western Pennsylvania and these local teams and unions matter more. It is a little bit of a win for Trump because he can continue to sort of live by this false bullshit story that he is a – the working class populace that he can win over these working class voters in ways that Democrats can't. But I think it's probably – there's probably little more is being made of it necessarily needs to be.

Yeah, I don't think we'll hear about this story ever again. And to our point earlier about like the voters who haven't decided yet, they barely pay attention to politics. Like, I just don't know that this is going to matter that much either way to them. It's going to matter on the ground for like resources and people. But like if she has some of these teamsters in these key swing states, that's very helpful in terms of organization and volunteers on the ground.

Speaking of labor strongholds, Kamala is in Michigan where she's about to do a live streamed event with Oprah Winfrey. That's unfortunately happening a few hours after we record this. The two are set to appear with a small live audience somewhere outside Detroit that the campaign isn't saying where. And it's being hosted in conjunction with a bunch of those affinity groups that have held massive Zoom calls for Harris already. Win with Black Women, White Dudes for Harris.

Cat ladies for Kamala and others. The New York Times says Governor Gretchen Whitmer will also be there. What's the upside of an event like this? What does it tell us about how the campaign is thinking about using this Oprah endorsement, which we first saw at the convention? I think what's interesting is it says the value that the Harris campaign puts on organizing.

person-to-person contact. And so there's a way once you do this where it's like a big rally in Detroit or Atlanta or something like that. And then there's this version, which is it's a smaller event, it's live, but you're finding a way to reach out to people who you know will be talking to their friends and family about this election. You've already given money, signed up to volunteer, and you're energizing those people. And General Malley Dillon, who's the campaign chair, our friend David

These are organizers at heart. And this is a campaign that's thinking organizer first field first and using Oprah for that is pretty smart. Yeah. And getting people all excited and given them sort of marching orders who are going to go like knock on the doors and stuff, I think is very useful. Uh, one of the guests slated to be at the Michigan event is Hadley Duvall, the incredibly brave Kentucky woman who's currently in a powerful Harris campaign ad telling her story about being raped and impregnated by her stepfather. Uh,

In the ad, which is set to music by Billie Eilish, Duvall says she was able to have an abortion, but quote, because Donald Trump overturned Roe v. Wade, girls and women all over the country have lost the right to choose even for rape or incest. Donald Trump did this. He took away our freedom.

Harris is also heading to Atlanta on Friday to give a speech about two mothers in Georgia, Amber Thurman and Candy Miller, who died after being denied abortion care after the state passed its six week ban. Tommy was talking about this on Tuesday's pod. It's this ProPublica story you should read. It's just awful, heartbreaking. Amber Thurman leaves behind a six year old boy. It's just really, really sad.

Thoughts on this very powerful messaging push around reproductive freedom? It was one of the most powerful and frankly best testing messages from the debate was when she took Trump on on abortion and went through his record and what he would do.

And the target here is very clear. It's women, particularly working class women. The folks at Blueprint, the center-left research organization, have a poll out of swing state, non-college educated women today, which shows that this is a group that is favorable to Kamala Harris. And one of the ways in which you can persuade these voters is on abortion. They oppose Dobbs. They oppose these abortion bans. They trust her on abortion by seven points. And

more than 40% of them actually believe that if elected, she would not just try but pass a law restoring row. And so this is really what you're trying to find. In a close election, there are all these groups you have to get. But one targeted group where she can actually do better than Biden is working class white women. And that's exactly who this is targeted to.

I don't know if you saw this in the Times poll too, but there's now a plurality of voters who believe that Donald Trump will pass a national abortion ban. So we had talked before about all the work the Harris campaign, first the Biden campaign, then the Harris campaign needed to do in making voters understand that Donald Trump would actually go forward with this because they didn't necessarily believe that or didn't necessarily hold him responsible for Dobbs. And that has started to change, I think, over the last couple of months. And now the question is,

If you're undecided, if you think Trump's better on the economy, but you see ads like this, you hear testimonials like that, you read stories about like those mothers in Georgia. If you do, if you if you see all that, do you think, OK, well, maybe Trump's a little better on the economy or I think he's better in the economy. But this just seems so extreme, so scary. I don't want to live in this country. I don't want my kids to live in this country. I'll vote for Kamala Harris, even though I'm not sure that seems to be the bet. And you could you could see that moving voters.

Absolutely. Okay, when we come back from the break, Tommy and Dan and I are going to talk to Lovett about his short but absolutely perfect run on Survivor. Yay!

I'm so excited. Before we do that, though, a reminder that Pod Save America is back on tour in October with stops in Ann Arbor and Philly. We'll be at Ann Arbor's Michigan Theater on October 5th with Strict Scrutiny's Leah Littman as our co-host. And our guest is going to be the Senate candidate, Alyssa Slotkin. On October 6th, we'll be at the Met Philadelphia with co-host Simone Sanders-Townsend.

And we will have Bob Casey. Senator Bob Casey is our guest. Get your tickets at crooked.com slash events now. And dear God, Pennsylvanians and Michiganders, talk to your undecided relatives. Also, if you are following the insane story of the exploding pagers and walkie talkies that Israel allegedly sent to Lebanon and what it means for the prospect of a wider conflict between Israel and Hezbollah, you've got to check out this week's pod. Save the world, Dan. I've listened to it. What are you talking about? I'm.

I'm just bringing back this. Have you listened to it? I have listened to it, yeah. I did listen to it immediately. As soon as I heard about the story, I was like... We'll grill love it on the Pager story when he gets here. Yeah, I'm sure he was listening to it at his fucking hotel in Fiji when he was on vacation. Anyway. Anyway. Tommy and Ben talk about what happens, what it means, and what we know about Kamala Harris' leadership style on national security and foreign policy. Listen to the latest episode of Pod Save the World, available now on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back...

Love it.

Conclave is only in theaters October 25th. Visit conclavethefilm.com to get tickets now. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Therapy is great. It is, John. It is helpful for learning positive coping skills and how to set boundaries. It empowers you to be the best version of yourself. And it isn't just for those who've experienced major trauma. Everyone can use therapy. Just great to talk to someone. I'm gonna, I texted my therapist. I said, I'm coming back after this election.

Either way, win or lose. She's like, who is this? New number.

If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Visit betterhelp.com slash PSA today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash PSA. Introducing Instagram teen accounts.

Automatic protections for who can contact teens and the content they can see. Learn more at Instagram.com slash teen accounts. All right, we're back and we're doing a segment here. This is going to be our first and last survivor recap. We got John Lovett here.

Former contestant, also, just so people know, who weren't paying attention. Spoiler. There's a spoiler. There's a huge Survivor spoiler. John Lovett, contestant on Survivor, season 47. That's right. Last night was the premiere. That's right. Two-hour premiere. First person voted off the island. That's me. That's John Lovett. We should have brought in a vote of candle. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. If, first of all, uh...

This wouldn't have happened if Jeff Probst had just shown a little bit of courage. That was my joke at the beginning of the episode. Well, fuck. Not the most embarrassing thing to happen to me in the media this week. You want just reactions? I'm going to start with a compliment because there's going to be a lot of jokes.

You did such a good job not revealing at all. You have a great poker face. Genuinely shocking. People were like, you must have known. I thought you won because you were so cocky about it. Me too. I thought the same thing. My guess was that not that you won, because then I think you would have been intolerable. Right. Not that you won, but also you seemed so happy that I'm like, I bet he just did. He feels so good about how he did, which now makes sense because you did do it.

you did great sure i think you were not embarrassed i was not so that was the thing that was hard like if i had come back and i had felt like what had happened was i blew my chance at survivor that like i was there and i was in it and i screwed it up i think i would have been a little bit more reserved about the whole experience but i mean your taste in friends wasn't great sure but but all that like we got some questions about that yeah no and we should we can get into it but like

It's also like this is a two-hour representation of 72 hours of what happens. And so there's a lot of other conversation. A lot we didn't see. There is a lot you didn't see. You don't even know the real story. But no, no, it's a fair edit. It's a fair edit. I feel very comfortable with the edit. But I don't feel like I...

Like having now had the experience of watching an episode of reality TV in which you are on having no idea how they edit you Holy shit, that's nerve-wracking. I'm a little bit relieved I don't have to I would I wish I had gone further, but I feel like if you're gonna go out first This is a pretty reasonable way to do it I just have two more things to say and then we I want to play a clip here number one

Emily and I watched this last night live, and I just want to say it was like an out-of-body experience watching it, and then by the end... Because of the edible. Because of the edible, which I'm glad I took. That was for me, at least. And I was in tears laughing so hard.

that i i feel like i missed so many good parts i'm gonna go i'm tonight i'm gonna go home tonight and i'm gonna re-watch especially like the end because two hours is first of all a lot the funny part was watching you interact with a bunch of uh gen z bozos was my absolute favorite part at what point did the gen zers frighten you yeah yeah no it was um there it's also like every it's such a uh

Yeah, like the realization that like, oh, I'm the oldest person in this group of people. Which you discussed on the show. Yeah, no, that was... Yeah, we think we have a clip of that. Okay. Yeah, let's play a... Before we go any further, let's play a super cut of Love It's Best Moments. Okay. I'm not that old. Oh my God, I just was wondering. No, I love Vine. I remember Vine was awesome. It was like 30 when Vine was popping. That's right. I was still a young person. Looking at my tribe, I'm realizing I'm not getting to know a group of people. I'm getting to know a group of young people.

I am 41 years old.

Okay, so I'm old now? No, I really like my life. There's so much back in my day stuff coming out of my mouth. I'm from Los Angeles. In WeHo? No, I started in WeHo, where all the gays go. I was a speechwriter for a while. Okay. And then I started a podcast called Pod Save America. I heard you from the name. Well, how many of you listen to it? I haven't listened to it. I'm not ready. I'll be kidding. I'll be kidding. I'm not ready.

I feel like your podcast is huge, right? You're right. Ha ha ha!

What are you supposed to say? Do you not feel like your podcast is huge? We do all right. I fucking lost it. Podcast is a grower, not a shower. We were like, Pod Save America. Has anyone listened? Everyone's like, eh, no, no. One person said, maybe, maybe. The other kid's like, I love TikTok, though, dude. I think they did listen to it. I think they did. I think they did. Keep in mind, there was another podcast host. This is the best part. Had a podcast that was about Survivor, but there's a scene in the...

after love it gets i don't know maybe maybe someone goes up to this podcast and it's like i

I'm a huge fan of yours. She's a celebrity. She's a celebrity. She was a great. Love it. Not the most famous. Good for Asia. Good for Asia. I'm glad. I'm glad. I'm glad Asia got her flowers. Um, just a basic question. Why do you think you lost to the guy who had a physical, uh, an emotional meltdown? That's such an important question, Tommy. Thank you. This guy's name is Andy. Andy. Also described love it as his best friend. Yeah. Out magazine called your bond with him sweet and chaotic. Yeah.

That's a real thing. It's a real thing I saw on the internet today. You know, with friends like these. So once Andy had his breakdown, I think basically like it wasn't really about like who was friends or who wasn't friends. Like Andy had basically kind of imploded in front of 18 people, all of whom now didn't need to worry about him as a threat. And I had been kind of funny and charming in front of everybody. And so I was... Those were in the other scenes? Yeah, the other scenes. Okay.

You got a lot of laughs. You got a lot of laughs out of that. Wow. And so... It was famously Andy bitching about how everyone clapped at you opening a coconut. I opened a coconut. And so... Opened one fucking coconut. Hey, I missed... That's two coconuts you opened this year. Yeah.

Hey, hey, listen, you go to Fiji and miss three dinners. But I do think that basically Andy was no longer seen as a threat. I was still seen as a threat. And-

basically like because of the natural way it just broke down. Like there were no real alliances that early kind of very like kind of softly there were, but like Andy and I had walked off one time. So suddenly we're together. Sam and Sierra had walked off. Now they're together. Rachel and Anika were in the middle. And so, um,

Once Andy breaks down, it just like put me in a really difficult position. If that hadn't happened, there was a bunch of different ways it could go. One thing you don't see in the episode because it just has to be condensed is I also had talked a lot with Annika. Like she and I really did want to work together. And then that was sort of why Andy pitched to me that we turn the vote on to her. It was complicated, but like,

There were a lot of different conversations. There's like a swirl, like there's hours of swirling conversation that happens before you go to the vote that they condense into one storyline. I don't think it's an unfaithful storyline that they showed, but it is like more complicated than that.

Dane, you're a reality TV savant. What was your reaction watching? I would say this is the first two hours of Survivor I've ever watched in my life. Same. It's really an hour and 45 minutes because I started 15 minutes late. I turned my TV onto a mud-covered Lovett trying to do a puzzle. Which is when I started laughing, I didn't stop. I would say a couple things. One...

This is something you care about. Like you obviously care about Survivor a lot and you did put yourself out there. So I think you get credit for that. And that's good. I think it's impressive. This is how you talk about Joe Biden's speeches. He lasted longer than you did for the record. That's right. No one's talking about the Secret Service guy's commander didn't bite. You know what I mean?

Two, you definitely got fucked by Andy. Right. You would have made it past the first episode. I saw someone say in the Discord, which was an amusing conversation to follow along, that you were either going to win or go out on the first episode. I think that is the perfect summary of how this was probably going to go. Yeah. And by the way, that is what I told Jeff when I talked to him for the first time about coming on the show. I said, I will either go to the end of this game or I will go home first. So-

hoisted my own here here's my question for you because and i don't know anything about survivor why were you not on the puzzle team what yeah so there is a just breast stroking out to the yeah i want to ask why you were doing the breaststroke in the swimming challenge i should have practiced swimming i should have i should have practiced swimming more but um

Everybody caught me doing the breaststroke. I didn't even realize I was doing the breaststroke. Emily noticed it immediately. That was her first question. I should have maybe jumped in on the second puzzle, but basically...

They didn't show it, but in the first puzzle, I was helping from the side and we had talked about it because you have a moment to strategize before and we had talked about it and it was like, oh, the puzzle pieces are big. Sam is stronger. Sam can lift the pieces. Love it. Well, John, you'll help call from the side and they just don't include everything that happens. - The older, more mature brain behind the operation. - Yeah, yeah. I'm a delegator. - That looked brutally hard. - I feel like as a math major,

You would have helped them do the puzzle much better because they tried to the puzzle terribly. And therefore, you would have shown value. Thanks to your tribe. No, for sure. In addition to that meathead sports reporter guy. Yeah. And the charm. Don't forget the charm. But no, I think the actual fuck up on the puzzle. It was wasn't actually our family to do the puzzle.

The completed puzzle was sitting next to us because the red tribe had completed their puzzle. Why are we not using... We were so focused on what was happening in front of us. We didn't stop. It's the first challenge. Everybody is super amped. That's why the boat's all turned over. You're just not fully thinking. You're nervous. You're already tired. It's hot. You've never been in this sort of environment before. And I think if we'd all taken a beat, we would have looked over and been like, wait a second, why are we not using this puzzle?

Fully completed puzzle to figure out this puzzle. I was amazed at how physically taxing this looked like picking up those giant boxes swimming to a dock the breaststroke and then loading those heavy boxes onto a boat that kept capsizing meanwhile you got like a coked up Barry's instructor Jeff Probst barking or screaming like This is the worst start we've ever had. By the way what you saw what

We were in the water for so long. Lavo, the red tribe, had completed their puzzle for so long before we had even gotten up there. There was a moment where there were two tribes fighting

all of our boxes floating, all of our boats upside down. And I really was like, what happens? Like we made nothing, nothing is happening. No one could figure out what to do. And then because everything is all waterlogged, we get the boat up onto the beach. We get the boat up into the tracks. We get the chest back into the boat. We all go to heave the boat down this path. And he barely even showed

and it just doesn't move. Like we all push as hard as we can and it doesn't move like a foot or an inch. It just doesn't move at all. And there was this moment like, we're just not gonna be able to complete this thing. And then eventually we fight and we fight and we get it to the end. - God, it looked hard. - It was hard. It was hard. It was cool. - Are you at all annoyed at CBS that they put you in all the early promo materials and Jeff Probst called you quote, "One of the greatest storytellers that we will ever have," knowing full well the outcome?

- No, I enjoy being part of a bait and switch. But also, like I, like,

I think that they were pretty disappointed that I went home this early. I think he really liked you. He liked me. I think he was really social connection. You made for sure. Yeah, there's one. The one guy was out of vote. Powerful. Yeah. One guy had to vote because he doesn't step in there and get together for a slate of delegates. Get a fucking better slate. I don't trust these people. Did you see the counting of the ballots? Something happened. There was a duffel under the table. But the.

But I do think they were genuinely disappointed that I didn't go further. And I do take that as a compliment. Speaking of the counting the ballots, did it upset you that everyone spelled your name wrong? Or the tribal council? Not even one. Look, it upset me as a fellow J-O-N. Here's the thing. One of the frowny faces. It's not exactly a sign of confidence if you go around to people and explain how to spell your name before tribal council. And by the way, if you're going to write, don't write my fucking name down. You don't go around saying there's no H in John. What kind of signal does that send?

What can you tell us about where you went after the vote? So you go to Ponderosa. This is publicly known. It's basically like they take over a hotel and you stay there. There is the pre-jury time and there's the jury time. I was obviously not pre, not jury. And you basically are isolated. You don't have your phone. You don't have anything. And you just sort of

basically like kind of have be on vacation be on vacation while you guys are making the pods day in and day out working to the bone and you're in the mines like three production days for six weeks of work um check out just wanted to make that was one thing that crossed my mind well no and and and i understand why you might be cross about it by the way

And obviously, no one was more disappointed than me. But it's not like I could come back and do the podcast because then everyone would find out that I got out. So there was nothing to be done. No, there wasn't a ton going on here, though. Okay, wait. Can I offer you some spin? Sure.

Now would be helpful. I've just completed a day of press about it, but yeah, no, what do you got? You go on a show like Survivor because it's a great story, and getting booted out first is a much better story than getting booted out second or third to last. Totally agree. Third to last is pretty cool. Then you have a lot of stories. Actually, second is the worst. Second boot sucks. Because you don't have the... You're not the first boot person, and you're the second. Yes, I would say I am glad...

Well, now here's the thing that's interesting is that like, so you go to Ponderosa and then every day or two, a person comes and joins you. Oh, that's cool. And it's really interesting, right? So the first year, you're a little bit shocked. You're there by yourself.

And then- Hey, Andy. Then you- Good to see you. Then you- Well, I'm not going to say who comes next. I know, I know, I know. And then you're sitting there and then you're now kind of gotten over it, based not over it, but you're like kind of like past the first bit of like, oh, I just got voted out. And then this shell-shocked person comes down the stairs. You don't know who it is until they arrive. And you're like-

This is not my job to expend emotional labor helping you. No, but what's interesting about it is like, you know, everybody who gets voted out a survivor, myself included, like you start telling a story that like is the best version that you can tell that's believable, that makes you feel better about what happened. You're a part of that right now. But but but in those first few moments when somebody comes off, they're like,

And they just start talking about what they did wrong, what other people done, what they feel bad about, what they regret. And so you get like, you're like one more poopoo platter, please. Yeah. Listen, Jeff,

Poopoo platter. The funny thing too is with each passing day, with each passing day, the people that come are skinnier and skinnier and hungrier and hungrier. But you can't really eat that much because you haven't eaten in days. And so basically you watch somebody just sit in front of a full cheese pizza and just sort of take a bite of it. Yeah.

- You gonna eat that as you're crying? - Yeah, no, no, no. Yeah, they really fucked you up. - I've been here a week now. - What did you do all day when you were there? You had no internet. - Did you read books? - I read books. - Was it like being in prison? - I read a bunch of books. Basically I would, yes, I would work out. There was a PlayStation 5 and even though they wouldn't let me log into my PlayStation 5 account because it would connect me to a messaging app, I was able to use, yes.

I was able to, I was, I, they had a couple of games. And so I played video games for part of the day. I read, um, by the pool for part of the day, eight, just like eight all the time. It's like being on a cruise. You're just like, there's just a constant supply of food. I haven't had a vacation day in a year. And then, uh, okay. All right. You just used it to tweet about Joe Biden. Can we get, can we get, can we get John? That was your choice, John. I had some, I had some coconut stuff in there too.

this guy, this guy over here. Uh, but so yeah, so you're just kind of hanging out all day. And then as people come, people just really want to talk about what happened. And then, uh, so it gets more fun, but what's in, but anyway, you like really get a perspective on the game that you don't normally get from people, how they talk about it. Once they're in interviews, they're, they're really kind of honest about what went wrong for them. And that was a really cool, it didn't, it made me want to point it out. Well,

- Well, I was gonna ask, so you said in the exclusive teaser we listened to on Monday for Tuesday show that Survivor is an election and experiment in democracy. Is your experiment in democracy over? - Listen. - Nice job, Oprah. - Yeah.

I'm going to recap pod. I am not ready to give up on democracy just yet. Just like Trump. You win some, you lose some. You don't walk away from democracy, Tommy, just because you lost an election. You storm that. You grab a torch and you start threatening. Meet me at the Ponderosa. We'll be wild. Laughter

Is that all we got? By the way, in what way was this not worth it? This was awesome. This was so fun. My text to Love It last night was, that was an incredibly enjoyable experience that I shall never forget, and I am so grateful to you for giving it to us. And I genuinely mean every word of that. And I really wish I had gone further, but...

The fact that I now, like the nervousness before seeing what they decided to use or not use, I am so relieved. If I wasn't going to go far, I'm glad I'm home now. Also, if you did go far, there's so much more footage and so many more things to worry about saying. I fell out of a boat. That could have been in there. You gave us all the gifts. Everyone fell out of the boat. You gave us the gift. It was very enjoyable and it was fun.

I'm going to watch it just to root against Andy for the rest of time. Yeah, that guy sucks. A critique of the show itself. I will say I've only watched the first season, so I've missed out on Survivor. You can't just jump into a season because there's a lot of rules and things that are happening that you can't have a war advantage. People are running through the words. You have no idea. Fucking digging up boxes with locks. By the way, that was another thing. When I got back after the immunity challenge, I really did think like,

Well, my options now are to hustle and try to get the votes off of me and onto somebody else. The challenge there, though, is

There's something called shots in the dark. Do you guys know what shots in the dark are? I googled it today. So a shot in the dark, basically everybody starts out with basically a one in six. It's like a die. And you put it into a box and you basically have a one in six chance. It's a dice. It's a roll of the dice. And you have a one in six chance of getting to stay if you play your shot in the dark, but you lose your vote. The reason it exists is basically so that

If you're sure you're going home, you can play it. But that means people have to persuade you that they're not voting for you, even if they are. It's a way to get out of situations that would happen in the past where everybody knew it was Rick and Rick knew it was Rick and there was nothing anybody could do. It sort of made it boring, sort of make it more interesting that everyone's kind of has to lie. But what that means is everyone's telling me it's Andy. I can tell that they're not telling me the truth.

But how do you persuade somebody to vote for someone they're already telling you they're voting for? Like, it's one thing if somebody comes up to you and says they're voting for Trump, but it's another for them to lie to you and say they're voting for Kamala. You can't persuade them because they're telling you I already agree with you.

So it just made it really hard. And so I thought about, like, should I go chase down a beware advantage? But as you all saw, it's so many steps. And I didn't know if I'd be able to complete the steps in time. Yeah, that one guy was running all over the place. He was climbing up a tree. Dropping boxes down a cliff. What the fuck was going on? He was not subtle. I was so lost. I was in my phone when you were not on the TV. I was just like, I cannot follow this right now.

You'd be texting with every person you know about the world. Every group chat I've ever started was exploding. Good, good. And also, the East Coast people fucking sort of ruined it. I called Elijah to spoil it for me. Oh, you did? Yeah. Tim Miller texted us all exclamation points, and I'm like, oh.

Oh, no. And then my high school friends on their text, Jay, and I was like, oh, shit. I watched the East Coast feed so that I could at least know what I was in for. Amazing. Well, congrats. Yeah, sure. This is content for years. Decades. You know...

Mostly, I've been actually... I have appreciated the ratio of people angry on my behalf and mocking me. I think it's a good ratio with a very small subset of people trying to find a way in which I played poorly, but you guys can eat dicks. I, uh...

But I appreciate the jokes and I appreciate everybody that was nice. Want to see a really nice tweet about you? Yeah. I still can't believe Survivor has almost exclusively been using John Lovett clips for one season only for him to get Drew Barrymore'd. Hey. You were compared to an A-list actor. That's cool. And that was a bait and switch of that movie. That's right. Well, that's our show for today and we will be back in your feeds on Tuesday with a new episode and a new co-host.

Andy. He jotted his joke face for that whole outro. I was like, what's the joke going to be? Bye, everyone. Bye.

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