Sometimes When You Win, You Really Lose
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Davey Smith

A new man with... Cleansed. My spirit has been redeemed. It was so cleansing, it took his background with him. That's how cleansing the whole experience was. Well, welcome back, brother. Congratulations. You sent me some of the clips and even...

You had to put him on low res to email him to me, and even that, I thought it just looked awesome, and the material's incredible. So can't wait for everybody to enjoy the special. And yeah, have you named it yet? Yes, it's called Live from the Denver Comedy Garage, Not an Actual Place. Okay.

It's a little long, but I like it. I like it a lot. All right. Well, first off, apologies to everybody for missing yesterday's stream. I've got a 24-hour stomach bug going through the house, which, as I'm sure all of you have been there, sucks. How many bathrooms do you guys have?

more than enough more than enough well it wasn't like um i shouldn't i'm exaggerating it's not really going through the house only my daughter uh got it and then i thought my son was coming down with it but he didn't so we're still in this weird you know territory of like waiting for to see if uh because it's just impossible that we don't all have it anyway um

This weekend, no matter what, this weekend, me and Rob will be back out on the road together. Looking forward to that. Comedy Club of Kansas City, which is a great club. It's one of my favorite clubs in the country. So really looking forward to going back out there to Kansas City. And then we got a bunch of stuff coming up. ComicDaveSmith.com for all of our day. We're starting to post some ticket links going through next year and stuff. So got a lot more coming. Come see us in a town.

near you. And we'll figure out the schedule for this week. We will make up the episode for Monday. Okay, so obviously we're down to the last few minutes of the fourth quarter here in this presidential race. A couple weeks to go. It's...

It's a wild one. I don't know how much you follow this stuff, but it is crazy to me still. This wasn't just like a trend for a week or something at this point. It's been pretty consistent through all of October. We're almost done with October. That Donald Trump, essentially, I guess if you try to kind of zoom out, there's not that much to zoom out to because this is such a short presidential race. But essentially what's happened up till now is –

Joe Biden is forced out. There's an enormous sigh of relief from Democrats and Democratic voters, and they kind of attempted to project that message.

into some thing about Kamala Harris, like, oh, she's a phenomenon and that she's joy and hope and change. And she's the new, you know, Barack Obama or something like that. In October, Donald Trump has surged in the betting markets. He is winning in almost every one of them, I think, and some by pretty wide margins.

The polls are different and they would essentially tell you that this race is tied within the margin of error. Almost all of them are within the margin of error. I mean, I'm saying the majority of polls have not only the national numbers within the margin of error, but every single swing state within the margin of error. So the polls are telling us this is a toss up. The betting markets are telling us that Donald Trump is surely going to win. I shouldn't say surely going to win, but that he's a big favorite.

And I am not moved at all from how I felt about this race the whole time, which is that if there were a free and fair election held today, I just don't see how Donald Trump doesn't beat Kamala Harris. That being said, I have very little confidence that that will be the case. And the most powerful entrenched interests have all signaled that Donald Trump will not be allowed back in the White House. I don't know. Do with that information what you will.

I feel like I'm going to take the other side on this one. And my prediction is we just observed the 2024 Kamala Harris, Peter out. And I think Donald Trump probably made the necessary arrangements behind closed doors. And I think they'll let them in, but who knows? Maybe they'll get them on a fourth try. Yeah. Or they're really good at rigging elections. It could be one of those two things, I guess, remain to be seen. Well,

Well, OK, so here's something I've been thinking about a lot lately, and I'm curious to get your your thoughts on this. But this is something. And by the way, I'm just going to preface this. I know that I'm going to piss Trump supporters off with this. It's OK.

Trump supporters who still listen to this show, you know, that's what I'm going to do. We suffer from Trump derangement syndrome. It's a nationwide problem. Even as we've been right on so many things on this one issue, we just we captured the disease. And who are you to weaponize my...

illness against me. It's a syndrome, people. No, but this is just, look, this is something I remember saying this in 2020. I remember me and you having this discussion, and I remember pissing Trump supporters off when I did it. But, you know, I think I'm right, so I'm going to keep doing it. But here's a question, okay? One of the great philosophers of our time, Rosie Perez...

once said in a beautiful film called White Men Can't Jump. She said that sometimes when you win, you really lose. And sometimes when you lose, you really win. Remember? You guys remember? Great movie, by the way. Unironically, love that movie. And that is true in politics.

And what I'm saying here, this is something that almost never gets brought up in political discourse. Like you almost never hear any political commentator ever acknowledge this. But sometimes.

If you're a right winger, it's better for you if the Democrat wins. And sometimes if you're a left winger, it's better for you if the Republican wins. Like this seems counterintuitive, but it's not.

And I would I would. So essentially, I'm asking the question here. I'm not saying it would be better if Kamala Harris won. I'm saying maybe I'm saying it might be it might be better if Kamala Harris won. And I think it's worth entertaining that possibility. I think I said in 2020.

that it was quite possibly it would be better for right-wingers and libertarians if Joe Biden won. And, you know, I think in hindsight, it probably was. I think it probably was better for Trump supporters and for libertarians that Joe Biden's been president over the last four years. If Donald Trump had won re-election in 2020, first of all,

All of the inflation would have fallen on Donald Trump. The inflation was coming. 2020, we locked down the economy and we printed $6 trillion. There's no way to do that without devaluing your currency. And I mean, honestly, Rob, what do you think? You think Donald Trump would have gotten really good on government spending in 2021? Yeah.

After being terrible on it for four years, the worst of all being 2020. My guess is that he would have done the exact same thing that Joe Biden did and kept the spending levels up there, kept the money printing going. I mean, even to this is always what he believes in.

It's not even like this is one of those issues where Donald Trump, it's not like war or immigration or something like that, where like Donald Trump's instincts are kind of correct, but he might get fooled by putting the wrong people around him. His instincts on money are terrible.

He was complaining about the interest rates being too high in 2019. You know, like he's he doesn't know what he's doing with this. I think all of that would have fallen on Donald Trump. I think the the the carnage from 2020 would have been on his watch. Yeah, he probably wouldn't have pushed back the Trump.

the Afghanistan pullout date. Maybe he would have done a better job in Ukraine. Like there might be things that he would have done better than Biden. There probably are several important ones. But overall, I just think Donald Trump would have, I think he would have just failed. And then it would have been, it would have been much easier for the machine to say, told you so.

and then come back into power. You know, like, I just think that would have been much easier. And maybe I'm wrong about that, but I think there's at least a good chance.

I get what you're saying and it's possible. I guess the other variables, though, that I do think play into it is maybe he would have dodged the Ukraine war. And that's a big one. That's a big also maybe he would have continued a tough immigration policy. And I still don't know if we know what the costs are going to be of how many people came across that wall and how that might shift voting demographics down the line.

And then lastly, I'm not I'm not an economic expert, so I don't actually know what was lost long term in this country from the Inflation Reduction Act, from all the mail investment that took place in windmills and trying to get the auto manufacturers to make green cars that nobody bought. And what it might have looked like if we were running coal, fracking, fracking and doing the Keystone pipeline and what kind of an impact that.

Biden signaling his lack of interest in fossil fuel might have also had in prices going up. Yeah, look, I mean, I think there's no question that those are all legitimate questions and it's possible. I just think that Donald Trump, you know, he's he's in this position now where he's able, you know, and it's one of the really just.

tragic things about this presidential election is that Donald Trump was so bad in 2020. And so now he's basically running a campaign as if that last year of his presidency didn't happen. It's like it's, you know, Donald Trump is the only presidential candidate who's ever had to make the argument, who's ever had to look the American people in the eyes and say, were you better off five years ago? Yeah.

You know, like, let's not forget that four years ago talk. Let's go five. Let's just give me the first three. But if he had stacked a disastrous 2020, 2021, 2022, I just think there's no way that you wouldn't just he'd be a failure. That would be the takeaway from it. And then what does that lead to? Now, as this race gets gets closer, one of the things that I just can't

I can't help but think about is like, okay, Donald Trump getting elected, at least the first time it came with a huge cost. Now this cost is not,

entirely Donald Trump's fault. It's not even mostly Donald Trump's fault, but it was a cost for the American people nonetheless. And if that cost comes with electing this guy, then that's got to be factored into your equation. It's not our job to sit here and be loyal to a politician. And I hate that shit.

because that's when people turn off their brains. And also it's stupid. Like it's Donald Trump isn't your friend. He's not your buddy or your uncle or your brother. And he doesn't like know you or care about you. And the the what you should be thinking of when you're

thinking of supporting a politician, if you are, which I don't really recommend doing too much of. But if you are going to support a politician, your calculation should be like, what do I get out of it? What does my country get out of it? That's it. And one of the things that comes along with Donald Trump is that half of the country goes fucking nuts. They go fucking insane when Donald Trump is president. And this happened like forever.

I would make the argument and very particularly, I know you know this Rob, because you're in this world with me. Like we're in the standup comedy world and we're in the political commentator world. And in both of those worlds, the culture got much better under Joe Biden and was much worse under Donald Trump.

Like the the country did not move to the right because Donald Trump got elected. In fact, it went like three more clicks to the left, like as insane as woke shit was in Barack Obama's second term. It was so much worse than Donald Trump's first term. So much worse. He was the best fundraising tool and energy source for the Southern Poverty Law Center. And, you know, like...

whatever, MSNBC and CNN and all of them, they were all, it was like a jolt of energy into their system to have Donald Trump there. But with bumbling old Joe Biden, we finally saw at least that pendulum start to turn backward, like a little bit less insanity

in terms of like naked censorship, just crazy like cancel culture, which almost sounds like an old term now. That stuff got dialed down a little bit under Biden. It didn't under Donald Trump. And I think that for him to get reelected, we're going to see a similar type of meltdown. And that's it. That's something that should be thought about.

It's so funny. Usually you and I are so in lockstep, but on this one, the argument that you're making sounds similar to me,

with like, hey, Obama was actually better for guns in this country because people were so concerned about losing their guns. It made more gun sales. If I have to pick between the two, I'd rather have a guy who I think is going to protect your right to bear guns and to just and to tack on to that argument. I think a lot of it is that they so overstepped the

that we found out about the fact that they were basically colluding with the tech companies for censorship. And Elon Musk stepped into the environment and he brought Twitter, which then meant that there was some information that would have a safe home on the internet.

I think the environment actually changed because they overplayed their cards on censoring and having the temper tantrum. And I don't think in round two, Donald Trump, the media even has the same ability to just yell Russian asset, Russian asset. I think they've kind of just lost their market. They've lost their audience and kind of lost the game. Okay, so all good points. I would say that

Look to even in your example of saying Barack Obama was actually better for guns. I get your point. And maybe the calculation after considering it is that no, no, no. You'd rather have someone who's really good on the Second Amendment in there. Not that any of them are. But.

Look, I'm just saying it can't be ignored. That is true. Gun sales under Barack Obama reached record highs. And like, it is true that if you think you want to have a more armed population, well,

Obama being president did help with that even though by the way I think Trump was more aggressive on gun control than Obama ever was and you know there's a weird dynamic in politics to that too like it's like where they say like only Nixon could go to China it was the old you know saying like there is something where like it was going to be very hard for Barack Obama to actually start rounding up guns it's actually easier for a Republican um to do it but regardless of that

I get your point. Look, there were lots of other factors that Elon Musk buying Twitter, the boycotts against Bud Light and Target. There were a lot of other factors involved. It also didn't happen when Donald Trump was president. It happened after. And I think that was a major factor as well.

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So Kamala Harris is so... First of all, she's just awful on every level. She's not awful in the way Barack Obama was awful. She's not awful like, oh my God, she's going to be so persuasive to a bunch of people. She's going to be much closer to Joe Biden. I'm not pretending these have been good years for America. So that's not like saying, oh, things are going to be great. But one of the things that's just interesting to me is that if...

If Donald look, I think one of the safest bets to make at this point. Okay. I think of all the things we can say with certainty about the election. If Donald Trump loses to Kamala Harris, there is no chance his supporters will believe it's real. There's just no chance at this point, just about 100% of Trump supporters will believe the election is stolen. If Kamala Harris wins and Donald,

With good reason. You know, I mean, like, I'm not even saying they would be right. We're talking in hypotheticals here, but they'd be justified in believing that. Not necessarily even saying it's true. It would be totally understandable why they would think that. And then in a way,

Donald Trump losing would be like the culmination of this massive political realignment, which, you know, look, I'm I'm far from the only person to to mention this because it's it's so obvious and it's such a big deal. But the political realignment over the last few years has been something that would have been unimaginable 20 years ago.

Just completely unimaginable. 20 years ago, it was 2004, and right-wingers in America were lining up to re-elect George W. Bush to be president after lying us into a war. They lined up to re-elect him to be president.

And right wingers in America at this time, 20 years ago, could be counted on to be loyal foot soldiers of the regime. I mean, they were going to defend the military no matter what. You know, that was right wing America. It was like, yeah, are you with us or are you with the terrorists?

That always support the military, whatever war, you know, no matter how bullshit the fucking supposed justification for the war is, right wingers would gladly repeat it. They'd repeat shit that their leaders weren't even saying anymore. I remember arguing with the right wingers who were telling me we found the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. And I was like, Dick Cheney doesn't even say that.

What do you think? You think they found the weapons of mass? Because, you know, I don't know if you remember this story, Rob, but they found some old like defunct like weapons that Saddam had from the 80s that we probably sold to him. And so they were like, look, see, he did really have weapons of mass choice. Like, yeah. How come Bush and Cheney aren't saying that? Oh, yeah. Because even they know it was his dad who probably sold them the weapons or whatever. You know, it's like this. And you're like, what do you think? You think Dick Cheney and George W. Bush are just a...

They're just watching everyone say they lied him into war and they're like, we could respond. But no, no, no, no, let's not. We're above that. Anyway, right wingers always defended the CIA and the FBI and basically anybody in a suit on Washington, D.C., who was a spy or a killer. You know, if you work for the government and you were a spy or a killer, right wingers supported you. That was the right wing in America.

And that has been transformed. And Donald Trump losing would be like the culmination of this. It would just be like for a generation. It would it will impact the future of American history for the rest of this century. Their right wingers will. That's it.

They don't believe in anything. If Donald Trump, they don't believe in the whole set. They don't believe in elections. They don't believe the media. They don't believe the government. They don't believe the spies. They don't believe the military. They don't believe any of it. There's nothing, you know, like, and all I'm saying is, as I say that out loud, doesn't sound so bad to me.

Like I'm like, oh, there's like that is something tangible that you get out of a Kamala Harris presidency. And I know like I'm not saying you have to agree with me on this. I'm not even saying I believe this. I'm saying it's an interesting thought experiment and it's worth thinking about, you know, like the calculation in a way is far as far as I see it.

is you go, okay, so on the Kamala Harris side, of the arguments for why you would want Kamala Harris to be in it, don't get me wrong, I could never vote for Kamala Harris, but I'm just saying, like, what you get on her is you get, okay, the right-wingers

see the whole thing. Like from the libertarian perspective, the right wingers become deeply anti-statist. Now, maybe maybe you could argue anti this state. You know, I'm not saying they become anarchist libertarians or something like that, but they're they're against this regime to the max. And unlike in 2020, what really changes the dynamic is that there's not just Trump to run back to.

Now, he's got to pass the torch. Someone else has to step up. I don't know who that would be. But like maybe Vivek Ramaswamy. He's somewhat positioned to be the guy. I don't know. I'm saying like that's what we get in column A. And in column B, you get the frenzy, the insanity, all of that stuff. All of a sudden, every left winger you know gets to be the resistance again.

What would offset that is if Donald Trump was really going to do something great when he got in. And I'm not sure I see evidence to believe that. I'm just not sure. You know, I saw again the other day the best we've gotten out of Trump. I saw again. I don't know if you saw any of this thing where he was at the barbershop.

or whatever. He went to like a black barbershop and was talking to a bunch of black dudes, which is again, it's like things like that are Trump at his most appealing, I think. But it's just like when he's just being like when he's not doing a speech or a press conference or a briefing and he's just like like Theo Vaughn's podcast when he's just being regular, I think is kind of him at his best.

But at one point, someone asked him like, oh, what did you not do in your first term that you'd like to do in your second term? And he said the thing that he says about how like, well, I wasn't really from D.C. I was from New York and I didn't really know all of the people.

Then immediately he just starts bragging about how great his first term was. And there's not one thing like that's the best we get from him to be any indication, any indication at all that he's learned a thing. You know, it's like, well, I put some of the not best people next time. I'm going to put all the best people. Yeah.

Not one policy, not one, you know, like there's nothing like there's just nothing. And anyway, I'm just saying that as we as we're in the end of the fourth quarter here, I'm just not seeing anything from Trump that really convinces me. Oh, no, no, no. He figured it out. He knows what's up. And, you know, I'm not looking for much.

I'm not even looking for much, just like one, you know, one thing would be nice. And I'm not, I'm not seeing it. So anyway, this is just something I've been thinking about, you know, regardless, I don't think that me or you or our audience would,

are going to be the difference in this election. You know, I live in a blue state and it's going to go blue. I'm like most like 95 percent of Americans. I'm in a situation where, hey, we're sitting here and watching and we'll see what happens with this whole thing.

But I'm just saying that, like, I think this is something that's worth considering that is almost never considered in politics, that sometimes it's better for the other guy to be in there. And I do think there's a very strong argument that.

That almost like if you really supported someone in 2020, you did not want them to get in because it was going to go bad one way or the other. And your guy was going to get blamed for it. And I I'm just pondering whether that's what exactly the best case scenario here for the prospects of liberty and prosperity and a secure future. And I don't know. I really don't know. It's not it's not overwhelmingly clear.

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One thing, okay, I wanted to play this video and talk about this stuff a little bit.

So one thing that, you know, again, even in the whether Trump wins or loses, the fundamental dynamic, I think, is is going to be close to the same, which is that ultimately Donald this is going to be Donald Trump's last four years. We're still going to have a country, hopefully at the end of four years, and we're going to have to figure out where we're going from where we're going from there. And.

And there will be, you know, a populist right wing movement. I don't think they're ever going back. And I don't think that I don't think that.

anybody like, look, Dick Cheney is supporting Kamala Harris. It's not like he's even trying to bring the Trump supporters back. Like the neocons recognize that like, Oh no, this is lost. Trump supporters will never come back to supporting us like this. We got to move over to the Democrats and start being pro-choice and stuff now, which is pretty funny if you remember how they were when they were Republicans. Um, but anyway, uh,

So as we kind of thinking about that, actually, you know what, let's go to the let's do the Jon Stewart video first. Did you see Jon Stewart had had walls on his show and did one thing that I do respect about Jon Stewart is that as as as all of us are as we get older, he's a product of his time.

And Jon Stewart, of course, for everyone, he really like made his bones in the George W. Bush administration. This is when he went from being like a successful comedian, but just being like a professional comedian to being like world famous and, you know, being the Jon Stewart that we all know today. Yeah.

So he has not forgotten about Bush and Cheney. And anyway, this this clip was pretty great. Let's play it.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

No, don't you think, though, that, and I do this, I believe this, there is still a core group of folks out there. You know, your point being, and not joke, the don't tread on me, the Reagan piece of this, the libertarian piece, but the constitutional piece, there are a lot of people out there. I think Liz Cheney and Dick Cheney give permission to those folks who want to find a reason to do the right thing. The Cheney thing. All right. What? I mean, I guess let's start at the end.

I don't feel permission. Do you, Rob? Did Liz Cheney or Dick Cheney give you permission to vote for Kamala Harris? I don't know what world he's living in where he thinks that there's that.

anybody, I mean, and I know obviously he's not like talking about like our camp of libertarians, but in what world is there anybody who even remotely flirts with the idea of believing in like slightly less government or something like that? Or is like anything even remotely in the direction of libertarianism who was like, I was, you know, I've, I was going to have a tough time

Pulling the lever for Kamala Harris. But then I saw Dick Cheney get on TV and tell me to vote for her. So sure. You know, like it's just it's so obvious that I mean, I don't even God, I don't have these numbers off the top of my head. But I mean, Dick Cheney's approval rating when he left office was like garbage, just like in the toilet. And the George W. Bush administration has only gotten more unpopular since then.

Like there was like 20 something percent of Americans who were Republican voters who would still be like, no, I'm still with George W. Bush and Dick Cheney at the end of his administration. But then Donald Trump came along and actually, speaking of giving permission, gave those people permission to be like, no, no, no, you can hate Bush and Cheney, too. And they went, oh, thank God.

Thank God. Because this was getting really rough defending them. I'm so glad I'm allowed to hate them. Liz Cheney got demolished in her reelection campaign.

uh, for, uh, for, for the Congress. Yeah. She's, she got like, I think it was like 30 points or something like that. She got absolutely blown out. So don't give me this bullshit that there's like any meaningful constituency that having Liz Cheney and Dick Cheney on board, um, like helps with. That's just not true. The reason, the reason why Kamala Harris and, uh,

Again, this is just like I played the other day on the show. I was solo on it. It was when you were doing your special or whatever, but we're traveling. But I played the show the other day between Ted Cruz and his Democratic challenger. I'm blanking on his name where they're both just competing at the debate over who loves Israel more. And it's just like so weird that you watch it. You're just like you guys are just it's just so obvious. You're not even talking to voters.

That's not who the conversation is for. And likewise, if you watch the Republican primary debates, we made this this point a bunch where Nikki Haley wasn't talking to voters. Nikki Haley was talking to donors and she was talking to the war party and she was going, hey, I'm

I'll be that person for you. I mean, she knows her message of like, let's fight wars all the time isn't popular. She knows that's not going to work. But she also knows where the power is in D.C. And she was she was signaling to them that she'll be their person. That's the same thing with the Cheney's. It's not that they think there's some constituency out there. And obviously it's terrible politics with voters.

You know, it's not. But what it does, you know, like it it undeniably hurts Kamala Harris with voters more than it helps. It makes liberals a little uneasy to see Dick Cheney around. But you know who's a little uneasy, who feels way more comfortable when they see Dick Cheney around Lockheed Martin.

Raytheon, right? They feel a lot better about that. They're like, oh, okay. She's embracing Dick Cheney and Dick Cheney is embracing her. All right. This is going to be good for business. So like, don't give me this shit at all. And, and Jon Stewart is completely right. At least dude, there's no defense. They don't even have a defense for this. They don't even have an argument for why you're supposed to be okay with us, you know, embracing the guy who instituted torture and lied us into wars, right?

They don't even have an argument. His argument is Taylor Swift, too. And Jon Stewart just pulls that bullshit away immediately and goes, what the fuck? No, no. Taylor, what? Forget Bernie Sanders or Taylor Swift. It's like, no, we're talking about Dick Cheney. Why are you guys which, by the way, it's not just that they endorsed her. It's that she's repeatedly brought it up and uses it as like a badge of honor or something like that. I think she's campaigning with Liz Cheney this week.

So it's like, no, don't give me this bullshit. It's not about any of this costs you way more than it helps you politically. This is so that you can signal to the military industrial complex that you're ready to play ball, which she certainly is.

I don't know. Any thoughts, Rob? I don't even think when he was saying the libertarian thing, he meant it. He's just fishing for a way out of the segment. So he had his canned answer ready to go of, yeah, we also got Bernie Sanders and Taylor Swift for a Y10. And, you know, we don't get to see these people be pushed back on that often. And Jon Stewart makes it so funny of like, whoa, whoa, whoa, fine. Taylor Swift and Bernie Sanders, but why Dick Cheney? And then he just goes...

he just needs another nonsense answer. So he goes, well, we think it might give permission to, and like you said, it's not giving permission into the Democrats have no interest in trying to reach out to libertarian or Ronald Reagan, uh, Republicans. That's not their voting group. That's not who they're looking for. Uh,

If anything, it's, hey, we're pitching normalcy in the deep state. And so Dick Cheney is a character. And we actually think that some of the country that so just wants to hear that the political class has its act together is excited for Kamala Harris because she's endorsed by the political class. But he's just fishing for nonsense. He's just got caught with his pants down. And he's like, let me sling a couple of words together. And hopefully Jon Stewart will move on. Yeah, well, look, I mean, they...

there's a there's a lot of powerful interests that have a very vested um does interest yeah yeah I guess there you go I I didn't want to say the same word twice I'm not uh I'm not that's like a right out of Austin Powers I forget the line though oh yeah allow myself to introduce myself it was something like that yeah it was great great great movie um

Sorry, now I'm just thinking about Austin Powers. Okay, really funny movie. Great scenes. Good rewatch value. So a lot of these people, you know, they want to rehabilitate the image of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. It's not a coincidence that there's been so many attempts to do that. And this is, look, dude, it was after Vietnam that they, I can't remember if it was the Pentagon or the CIA, but they coined the term Vietnam Syndrome.

and they they uh george h.w bush was credited as like curing vietnam syndrome because the war the first war in iraq was such a cakewalk it was so easy like no americans died and like it was like a few weeks and it was over and we won and so i was like oh look we finally cured vietnam syndrome this is what they called it vietnam syndrome do you know what that is see the problem is that after vietnam the

These annoying Americans didn't want to fight another war. And isn't that like fucking these guys are really being assholes about this. You know, it's like we we fight a war where we slaughter millions of people. Tens of thousands of our own get drafted and died. Hundreds of thousands are wounded and left homeless and all of this. And at the end of the war, we lose. We have nothing to show for it except that. And the thing we were concerned about never happens. Right. You know, and so like, right. The domino theory or whatever dumb bullshit. Yeah.

So, you know, most Americans looked at that and were like, man, we should never do that again. And that's a real problem if you're in the business of making bombs. And so finally, George H.W. Bush cured America of this because we got such an easy war. I mean, there is this one little problem, which is that we were at war there for another 30 fucking years. That was the one issue with the easy part. But.

That's the mentality that these guys have is that like they do not like that Bush and Cheney that we look back at them and go like, oh, my God, what awful years where we were lied into these catastrophic wars. They would much rather you have like a pretty good impression of them. And, you know, what's the real issue is if somebody ever questioned the results of elections, that's like the worst thing in the world you could do. You know, lying you into a war. That's standard politics, right?

right and so like this is the attitude that they have that's the thing that we got to like guard against but you see it here in this short clip it's really it's amazing that you do realize exactly like you said i think you you broke it down perfectly but you realize that there is no answer they don't have an answer for that they don't have an answer for why it's acceptable to be embracing dick cheney of all people you know i mean it's just it's

they got nothing but they're but you know they have nothing that they're able to say out loud i should say the truth is they want to rehabilitate the warhawks and by the way speaking to your part of it might be better uh to have uh kamala harris and uh jd i'm sorry tim walls is that they're not very slick spokespeople so to have these buffoons trying to sell the regime to the american people is uh will make for a cartoonish four years and potentially wake people up but i i

I don't know that I totally agree with your premise, but with that said, the fact that these are the worst and most unslick cartoonish people trying to sell it at a minimum is entertaining. Again, look, just to be clear, I'm not even saying I agree with the perspective. I'm just saying it's a, it's a, it, it, an important question to ask. It's a worthwhile thought experiment to engage in. And that look, I mean, like there's, there's no question that like, if you, if you oppose the regime, uh,

Joe Biden being president wasn't all bad. You know, like it was kind of helpful to have a four year old be the president of the United States of America. It's like, yeah, it kind of kind of shows you something, you know, it's a little bit easier to expose.

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Thanks to Kalshi for sponsoring today's show. Let's get back into it. Okay, anyway, I wanted to... With the time we have left here, I wanted to play this clip that I saw on Twitter that was interesting to me because I do... You know, it's kind of on the theme of where we're going with the next chapter in the kind of populist movement in America. And there was...

It was a question that was asked of Charlie Kirk and Vivek Ramaswamy at a I think it's a college campus or something. They've been touring together and doing some of this stuff where they go and talk to young people. And, you know, full full disclosure, I.

I like both of these guys. I've done Charlie Kirk's show before, and he was a cool guy. And I know Vivek very well. We're friends. And he's done the show. He did the show four or five times while he was running for president. I'd love to get him back on soon. But.

The topic of Israel came up. And you know what? Let's just let's jump into it. I want to play the video because I, you know.

Obviously, I don't know anything about the kid who's asking this question. I know Vivek fairly well. I know Charlie not as well. But it was just I thought it was kind of a fascinating moment. And I think it's something that the next whether Trump wins or loses, like kind of like the next step in the next chapter in the populist right wing movement. This is something that's going to have to be addressed. And you can kind of see how this is already like bubbling up.

bubbling up quite a bit. Let's jump into this clip. So a couple of months ago, Thomas Massey went on Tucker Carlson, revealing how every Republican congressman has their own AIPAC person pushing them to vote in favor of foreign aid to Israel. And this year,

AIPAC spent over $400,000 trying to oust Massey from Congress. And in total, AIPAC has used over $100 million, ousting both Republicans and Democrats deemed insufficiently pro-Israel. So to get to my question, why is Thomas Massey the only Republican willing to criticize this foreign lobby?

or any other pro-Russell donors such as Miriam Adelson giving 100 million to the Trump campaign. Why are both of you unwilling to ever criticize AIPAC or even address it or acknowledge it? Aren't they like literally, fundamentally undermining American sovereignty? - All right, so let's pause it. Let's pause it right there. So okay, now obviously I don't know anything about this guy who's asking the question.

But I just, this is like just an objectively reasonable question. Yeah.

And it doesn't seem to be, you know, motivated by something. You know what I mean? Like, it doesn't like seem like at least from this that you're like, oh, this kid's like hates Jews or something like that. It just seems like, hey, this is a pretty fundamental question right here. And he's he's completely right. You know what I mean? To ask this. So anyway, that's that's kind of my first thought. Let's and let's play the reaction to sovereignty.

Well, first of all, I love Thomas Massey, and I have him speak at our events. I mean, Thomas has become a great friend, and I'm never going to speak against that. So what do you think about what he said, Tucker Carlson, that every Republican congressman has their own AIPAC person? Why aren't you talking about this? Well, again, we have a lot of things to talk about. But yes, I mean, I am pro-Israel. I'm guessing you're not, yeah?

Not really, no. Okay, yeah, so there you go. I mean, that would be why you're against it. But yes, I think that America... I'm against the Israel lobby control. Like, $100 million APEC has used in total, ousting both Republicans and Democrats. I understand the situation. Just to address the question.

I was just trying to figure out where you're coming from. What do you want me to denounce? Americans getting involved in the electoral process? I want you to condemn AIPAC for literally ousting insufficiently pro-Israel. What is there to condemn, though, exactly? They're undermining American sovereignty. It's a foreign lobby. But these are American citizens, aren't they?

No. It's a... Well, the whole lobby... American Israeli Political Action Committee legally can only accept money from American citizens. So what you're saying is that these are Jewish people...

You want to fill in the blank for me? Well, Mayor Middleton is Jewish. I know, but she's an American citizen. So what's wrong with Americans getting involved in the democratic process? All right, let's pause it right here. Because this is just, I mean, I don't know, Rob, like you already know what I'm going to say, right? But like, how is this not just wokeism? Like, how are you any different than the pink haired college freshmen who will just yell racist at you if you make any good point?

like right is the old saying is uh the definition of a racist is anyone winning an argument with a progressive like you just if you start winning the argument then you're racist and that's their get out of argument free card and it's almost like the same now kirk does kind of walk this back a little bit but it's don't you find it so bizarre rob that like immediately his response to this first off i mean you could peel apart they're just like

And again, I like Charlie, but just like how pathetically weak the argument is to just be like, oh, well, they're Americans. What's the problem with this? It's like, yes. OK, like, yes, that is that is Apex. Like, that's how they game the system is they go, oh, no, we're not a foreign lobby. We don't have to register as a foreign lobby because we're just Americans who happen to be lobbying on behalf of a foreign country.

Okay. But the argument to just be like, well, I'm pro-Israel, so I'm assuming you're anti-Israel. So the Jews are fill in the blank here. What's your issue with Jews? Just like this loose implication that you must have something against a group of people when you're being very specific and saying like, hey, look, there is this like –

foreign influence apparatus that I'm listening to a sitting member of Congress tell me every single member of Congress has their own handler from this foreign influence apparatus and that they will spend hundreds of millions of dollars or...

a hundred million, millions and millions of dollars in domestic politics, trying to remove anybody who is not sufficiently loyal to this foreign government. That is a totally reasonable question to ask. And one that you ought to have an answer to. And like, I just find it like so strange that like you're, it's like the response to this is basically to just start squirming in your chair and be like, so what do you like, what do you hate Jewish people or something like that?

Is that what it is? Maybe, you know, it's almost like it almost seems like Charlie Kirk is hoping that's what the answer is.

Because then you can dismiss the question or something like that. But like, what? I don't know. I object when the left does this. I don't know why I'm supposed to not object when the right does it. But it's like to it anytime that somebody like just makes a good point or asks a fair question and your immediate response is to start kind of like vaguely.

I mean, he doesn't come out and accuse the guy of being like an anti-Semite, but he does seem to vaguely be implying it or asking about it. And like, I don't, you know, again, it's like there's,

if you're not willing to talk about controversial things or things that might be uncomfortable or might cost you something, then you seed that ground and you seed that ground to the people who are willing to talk about that. And, you know, if your concern is that like, oh, there's a lot of people out there who hate Jews or something like that. It's like, well, if you, if you don't have an answer to this question, well, let me tell you who does have an answer to this question. People who don't like Jews, right?

And so it's like if you're not willing to take this on in a good faith way, you're just you're giving up the fight, essentially. And I'm sorry. Go ahead. To me, this is if I ask somebody, hey, how come the banks seem to get all these bailouts and there seems to be quantitative easing and all these mechanisms to give free money to the bank? And you talk about free markets, but never bring this up.

And the guy answered, well, do you criticize all government handouts? Do you hate it when government gives welfare? Do you criticize government Medicaid? And the answer is, well, no, I'm against all the handouts, but this one seems to be the most flagrant and the bankers seem to be the best at it. And it seems to be quintessential to our monetary policy. Same as the Israel thing's kind of flagrant.

quintessential to our foreign policy. So no, I'm not endorsing this mechanism where other countries can come create a lobbying organization to try and get more funds. But it seems to me like Israel's doing the best job at that. And that's why I'm asking you the question, because across the board, I don't think that's the way business should be done. And Israel seems to be the best at it right now.

And so that's why I'm asking you about what they're doing. I'm not endorsing the other ones. 100%. Exactly right. Exactly right. And it's the perfect example. And again, if somebody is out there being like, I'm a free market guy. I'm hardcore for the free market. I believe in laissez-faire capitalism. And I go, hey, all right. But there's this central bank and you

never criticize them that never comes up and they immediately get defensive and start going like oh what are you just like you hate bankers or something like that like what do you like again you know it's like you'd immediately be go like hey what's your deal you know like why is it that you can't give me a straight answer and then if i were to ask about anything else if i were to ask about snap

or like anything else, you'd immediately give the free market answer. You would have no problem holding it back. And then you're also like reduced to this thing where you go like, oh, well, they're American citizens. They're not a foreign influence. No, that's just America. It's like, dude, this is like going like it's on the level of if I were to point out that like Hillary Clinton got like $500,000 for giving a speech to Goldman Sachs.

And you're like, look, dude, this is just so obviously corrupt. Like what? You know what I mean? Like, come on. This is so clear that like they're bribing her essentially. Like, you know, no one wants to hear Hillary Clinton speak that much that they'll give her half a million dollars for a 30 minute speech. No one wants that. But this is a way for JP Morgan to cut a check to Hillary Clinton. So like, obviously, and you were to go, oh, so you have a problem with people being paid for speeches. Yeah.

It's it's you don't believe in freedom anymore. You don't believe that someone's allowed. It's like, no, in this specific example, it is so obviously gaming the system. So, yes, AIPAC gets Americans to go lobby Congress on behalf of Israel because it's technically illegal for Israelis to do it. But come on. I mean, like, what are we fucking children here? It's so obvious what's happening.

And it's the conflating, I'd said this, I'm seeing a lot of this of what's legal and what would make for good policy. So if I'm asking you a question of, hey, is it good policy that we've created a structure where foreign governments have an ability to send wealth their way by lobbying? And you responded, well, yeah, it's legal for them to do it.

So, yeah, I guess Israel don't hate the player, hate the game. And Israel is the best player in this game. But guess what? That's why we have laws and the ability to change games and the ability to call out what's unfair. And so far, that's what I'm doing. I'm saying, hey, I don't think that this is a good system. Why don't you guys call out that this seems to be corrupt?

that another government has figured out how to hijack hours through lobbying and get a lot of money sent to it. And then you respond, well, it's legal. I know. I'm not saying, I didn't say it's illegal what they're doing. I'm saying, doesn't this seem unfair and like it's a bad idea and that it's robbing the American people? Well, especially when like your whole thing here, and this applies to both Vivek and Charlie, that like you guys are like in this kind of like America first conversation

Right. And it's like, OK, but like if your whole thing is America first and that's all about like national sovereignty, our government representing our interests, not the interests of others. And then you have this foreign government who all of our leaders must pledge allegiance, pledge allegiance to who all of them constantly like in the most like radical

humiliating way. They have to go through this humiliation ritual. I mean, literally, like they literally have to cry and kiss a wall. Like, it's not like you couldn't, you couldn't make it more of a cartoon than it already is. And then also, by the way, who,

Who is this foreign government? Who's running this foreign government? Oh, yeah, the guy who was lobbying for us to fight the war in Iraq, the war in Libya, to overthrow Bashar al-Assad in Syria, and is still to this very day trying to push us to do a regime change war in Iran. And so, like, okay, you've got a country whose leader, who's the longest serving prime minister in their history, by the way, not just like one leader, right?

is diametrically opposed to everything you stand for. And then he's got this lobbying apparatus in our country that ensures that there will be support amongst the political representatives for this foreign government and does their best to oust people, including your good friend Thomas Massey, who

who you're all sitting here singing his praises because he's the best member of Congress by far. And they're trying to get rid of him. And yet you're still so handcuffed that you, like, it's just so obvious. Oh yeah, we're against that. Of course.

Then you'd like there's no other scenario in any political calculation where you wouldn't be, you know, whatever. If it was fucking France, then you'd be like a critic of France for doing it. Right. Like, I don't know if France was trying to get Thomas Massey unseated and you're a Thomas Massey supporter, then you're going to have to be critical of that effort. Right.

but you can't even say a word about it. Even you just mentioned he's your good friend. He's a good personal friend of yours. And you can't even say, hey, it's wrong that you're trying to remove him from Congress for the crime of being America first. This is just so nutty.

It's so not like if your role again, I like I really, really like I love the Vake, love the guy. I love Charlie. Like, they're great. But it's like, hey, if you guys want to be truth tellers, then you got to tell the truth. And not only when it's easy, you got to do it when it's difficult to do it. That's the whole thing. That's what separates the truth tellers from the bullshit artists. And yet here it's just like it's painful to watch. You know, let's keep playing like a little bit more of it.

Are they undermining American sovereignty? Well, now let me ask you a question. Hold on a second. Is the American Armenian Association lobby in D.C. undermining American sovereignty?

Could you repeat that? Is the American-Armenian Association, which he represented against Azerbaijani incursion, are they undermining American sovereignty? Are Armenian lobbies paying hundreds of millions of dollars? Actually, there's a lobbying fight right now in D.C. over Azerbaijan and Armenia. For example, are Taiwanese Americans that advocate...

that China does not incur against them are they undermining American sovereignty hold on a second are Ukrainian Americans that are lobbying for money so that they can repel Vladimir Putin are they undermining American sovereignty can you answer those questions or is it only the Jews that are undermining American sovereignty can you give one specific sample of an Ukrainian lobby in America the guy uh that was a blunder by the guy asking the question go ahead yeah so what in what way

Well, because instead of taking it on and saying, yes, all those sound like...

It's not an optimal system, but they're not as flagrant from what I've heard of Israel doing. He kind of takes the bait and goes, can you tell me one example of the Ukrainian lobby? I don't even know that the Ukrainian lobby exists, but the amount of wealth and the way that we've backed Ukraine in this war has been a mistake as well. And so, yes, if there was a Ukrainian lobby that's been incredibly successful at keeping us in this war, then, yeah, that would be just as bad. I just I don't know to what extent that that exists.

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Yeah, I just find like all of this to be like, OK, look, let me say this, right? Because I've been on record for many years now that I hate the term whataboutism. I just everything about it. I hate the word. I hate I hate the actual word. Whataboutism? Like I just it to me, anytime anyone says whataboutism, it just it it's like you just become like a 13 year old girl.

In my mind, like, it seems like you should be chewing gum and like twirling your hair. Oh, yeah. That's a totes apps. What about it? I just hate it. But I also just hate how people like misuse it all the time. So to be clear, this this.

line of arguing from the argument from Charlie Kirk would make sense if he was pointing to far more egregious violations of the same principle. Does that make sense? It would make sense if he was going, well, you're up out here obsessing over the Jewish lobby, but like, look, there's this Ukrainian lobby. That's like five times as big as that. So let's deal with that. And then like, well, you know what I mean? Or something like that. But it, it, it,

It is actually whataboutism in the worst sense of the word when you're just doing this for much more minor that, you know, it's like it's like if somebody if you got stabbed and you were like, oh, my God, I'm bleeding out or something like that. Like, oh, my God, we got to take care of this. This injury. I need to go to a hospital. And someone's like, yeah, but you also have a paper cut and you're not saying anything about that.

So like, what do you just, I mean, are you against your skin being open? If you're in a room of people that needed medical help and you're bleeding out and someone went, well, what about the guy with the toe energy, the toe injury? You're like, yeah, but I'm bleeding out. And to speak to your example, if someone had, you know, a brain injury and go, well, what about the brain injury? You go, yeah, we should deal with the brain injury first. Okay, fine. Right. That one might be kind of serious, but like, I don't know. I mean, okay.

look like Israel to even compare the relationship between, you know,

What were they saying? Armenians? And, you know, like, this is all nonsense, dude. Like, this is just totally dodging the point. Like, no, the Israel lobby has more power than any of these other special interests. And on top of that, the relationship between Israel and the United States of America is unique. Obviously, it is not the same as the relationship between the United States of America and any other country. There's just none like that. And, like, again, this is all just, like...

a really pathetic attempt to dodge the very obvious question, which is a fair one and actually a very important question, which is like, why are we not against this? Why would we be for this? Even if you want to tell me that you consider Israel to be an ally, even if you want to argue that we should be helping Israel prosecute this war.

which obviously I do not agree with. But even if you were going to tell me that this is still absolutely outrageous, this still should not be the way things work. If you believe in the nation state at all, if you believe in America first at all, then obviously, like, for example, let's say you thought that we should, you know, fund and arm France, right?

in a war for whatever reason you thought that made sense there they're fighting someone who you think is a threat to us as well so we we you think it's in our best interest that we for a help them prosecute this war

You you would still oppose a French lobby trying to unseat anyone who didn't support the war because you'd be like, no, that's like that's America's decision to make, not theirs. And it just to me, it seems like, look, there was a time when.

You could kind of get away with just not talking about Israel. There'd be people who would be good on everything else, but they're not good on Israel. And they're just going to get away with like, I'm not going to talk about that. That time ended last year.

You can't do this going forward. And this is something that's going to be really, really important in the coming years for the populist right wing movement in this country to grapple with. You just can't be scared of these topics. And you also can't be completely inconsistent on them. You can't just like have these stated views that you have for everything else, except to when it comes to Israel.

And, you know, again, it's like this is just example like 17000 of like when just watching these guys who have made, you know, kind of their bones off opposing the woke left, then turn around and become the woke left. When the question of Israel, a totally reasonable question gets asked, which has an obvious answer to it.

And immediately you just start pivoting toward this like, well, I guess what's unique here is that it's the Jews. You know, it's like I've done so many of these debates at this point. And it's I don't get this a lot because I think because I'm Jewish, it's just a little bit harder to like.

accuse me of this. I mean, people still do call me a Jew hater and all that shit, but like there's this argument gets brought up a lot when they'll just kind of be like, we'll be like, I don't know. Like, you know, you guys, there's so many bad things in the world going on, but you only seem to have a problem with it when it's the Jews, you know, like even if they don't come out and say the second part, the implication is always like, no, that's really your beef with this. But it's always just like,

There's so many other differences here that could also explain why somebody would have particular interest in this question. Also, it's not it's also just not a good argument in general. Like even if Israel wasn't the worst violator, which they are, but like even if they weren't, it's still reasonable to like ask a question about that.

I don't know. Like, you know what I mean? Like, and to just say like, oh, well, what about all these other things? It's like, that's not a good, that's not a good counter. But the truth is that there's like, there's so many things that are unique. You know, like I was just saying the other day on the show, they're like, you know, when in response to Constantine saying like, oh, the kill ratio is so is better than other wars, which is not true. But it's like, okay, more kids are dying in this war than any other war.

That right there, that right there is enough of a reason to give a shit about it. That's enough of a reason to say, I'm going to put some special focus on this, on this one. And again, like, yeah, you can, you can argue that like, there certainly is influence from lots of different countries. And yeah, I don't really think we should have any of that, but yeah,

This one has a lot more. This one has a lot more and a much more damaging influence as well. Anyway, I just thought that moment was interesting. And I think that if...

you know, if you don't want to see people who really do hate Jews, and there certainly are people who fit that description out there. If you don't want to see those people, you know, be the leaders in this movement going forward, you're going to have to come up with a better answer than that. That's kind of my feeling on it. All right. We got to wrap. Catch you guys tomorrow with a brand new episode. Thank you very much for listening. Next time. Peace.