Pete Buttigieg Thinks Trumpism is in Its Last Season
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Hi everyone from new york magazine in the box media podcast network. This is on with Carry swisher and on Carry swisher. Today we have an interview with pete booted.

Judge peat first burst on the political scene in nineteen and became one of the most surprising story lines in the twenty twenty democratic primary. No one could have predicted that the thirty eight year old gay mayor of south bend, inDiana would make a credible run at the nomination. But buddy judge one, the iow caucus is if the eye wa democratic party hadn't completely floored the counting, peat would have been declared the winner on caucus night.

Who knows how far that momentum could have taken him? Instead, as we all know, joe biden became president and pete is now the secretary of transportation. And by far, one of the more effective communicators in the democratic party, his ability answer questions clearly indirectly, is almost unparalleled.

But I think I could knock him off a few of his talking points, although I don't know what might be a draw. I've been reviewed boody judge several times once when he was on the campaign trail running for president and in his capacity as transportation secretary. In this case, he's appearing in his personal capacity as a haris surrogate, which means I can ask about space ex or palestine, ohio, but I can't ask about the heroes campaign strategy. Playing jd vans during governor wales prep debate, his take on democrats tech policies and his own personal ambitions, among other things. And today's expert question comes from linking project cofounder rick Wilson, let's get to work.

T thank you so much for coming on on. thanks.

So let's start .

with the state of the race is exceptionally close. Everyone is gone. The coin toss, whatever metaphor you feel like using vice present here is excused strategy, redirect well from the moment by the announced that he was stepping down. Talk about why it's been difficult. Open a lead up from your point of view.

Well, I think a, uh, low ceilings in high floors is kind of the result of the polar ized moment that we're in. It's fed by a dynamic where people have their own source of information, their own kind of reality. Um and you add to that the electronic of the electoral college system and it's just keeping this a close race. Now you lately they're dynamics that that shows that cheese rising in the polls, but should be first to remind all of us that, uh, there is a real underdog dynamic to to this campaign and I expect that's gone to continue. IT is a game of inches, uh, and IT will be all the way until the final belt rings.

Talk about that game of inch is several people said high floor, low ceiling to me recently talk about what that means and what inches .

means well is just hard to see either candidate getting less than something like forty six percent of the vote um and it's hard to see either one of them going much about fifty. Now of course, all you need is fit. You don't even need fifty, right?

I think if I remember right, IT was forty six percent of the popular vote down truck got the time one, never mind the time he lost. And again, I think a lot of this is fed by the fact that this isn't just people thinking over which way they're going to vote this year compared to last year. It's there's like a whole effect, like a whole kind of tribal set up, right, that a lot of people have a sense of belonging to this or that a campaign and yet people move, people can move.

Uh obviously because he won in twenty sixteen and lost in twenty twenty um and uh because a lot of people aren't actually deciding how to vote, they are deciding whether to vote. And um that's one of many things that I think has shifted in our favor since coming. Haris became our candidate.

Well, he barely lost by less than fifty thousand votes. The whole race could come down to three states. As everybody knows right now, pencil anio georgia north line seem to be the focus right now.

Um there are other ways in various configurations of the puzzle essentially bit mark robs in the luton's. Governor is running for governor. CarOlina is not doing tromp. I favors talk about the dynamics here in these states.

Look at at one thing i've always believed there there is no such thing as a permanently uh red state and that also means there's no a permanently blue state. These alms they feel very entrance ed in the moment but in just like one or two elections, things can really shift um I don't think most democrats thought of georgia is really being on the map until IT very suddenly whah first with with Stacy abrams are coming close and then um with the Victories that .

we have two democratic .

senators think about just how much our history like the course of the country in last year is different because of those to close senate seats and how they went in in twenty twenty. North Caroline is interesting because IT also has lot of the same patterns as georgia. By the way, I remember where north CarOlina in inDiana both went for obama two thousand eight um you know inDiana is more rich. A uh IT again shows you you can just write off uh, a state part of what's interesting is you know this a poll showing that a SHE may be within four points of trump in I A dos mean IO has become a purple state. But that does show you that the thing.

even with things feeling dog and things, york, everyone and they they show her beating him right now, the recent one in the keystone state, which is where I was born and my family lives. But what is what is the strategy for each of these three states? M, what's different?

How do you look at IT? Obviously are specific things that come up in specific states, but I think it's really border have an overall and cause his of message. And I think he does so in the same way when I was mayor, I was used to say never say something at the, uh in breakfast that you would be embarrassed to have repeated when you get to the chAmber lunch.

Like be who you are in front of different audiences in different geography and you know whether you live in georgia or in pennsylvania or north CarOlina a uh, chances are you are pissed off that the that don trump took away the right to choose. Chances are you are skeletons, al, of the trump plan to cut taxes for the rich. Chances are the more you hear about project twenty twenty five, the less you like IT.

Uh, and this, by the way, is something I think is specially important and interesting, because sometimes people like me and I will be the first to admit that I can be a policy nerd. People like me are told your being way too academic about election policy. Last time we checked our mail box at our house in rural michigan, there's a mailer in there from the trump campaign saying Donald trump has nothing to do.

The project twenty twenty five, we swear and he didn't write IT, bob. And I think it's really, really important in revealing the biggest scandal to confront republican party all year. Certainly, the trump campaign is policy is not a sex tape, is not the criminal stuff. It's policies is not even know a leak about their policy plans. It's that they publish their policy plans and cern out how people have right and that works in pennsylvania, works in georgia, IT works in you know it's not just like people in liberal statement, like people across amErica and even the most remotely competitive uh district, town or Price or state. Um don't like most of Donald trans policies and prefer most of coming harses policies.

So one of the things i've been singled and I have to attributed to audi corners every time, but they're coming a curious um about her and one the things that are that i'm seeing and a lot of when you see these focus groups is they are interested in policy. They are not they know he's what he is.

They they acknowledge success that even his supporters such that the debate, a lot of them, but they're like, I don't know her, I don't know her I think that the opposite problem he has, they know him so when anything comes out, whether it's hanging around with someone like lure luma or whatever that's controversial, they know it's like you, right? It's another weirdness, right? You know?

Yes, but I would say it's true that there may not be some sudden new revelation that changes how a supporters feel about him, but I still think there's another dynamic. And this is where I lift a little bit out from my view that policy matters into something else about kind of what what they, I guess, we're calling vibes now, which is IT might be the same stuff with him, but IT feels more tired now. Yes, I think that's what she's getting up. He talks about the same old tired show. It's not just like, you know, the racism is horrifying and we all need to condemn IT is horrifying, we do need to condemn but it's also that like that move of like doing something racially provocative to get tongue wagging for a week over that instead of how is cutting taxes for the rich is getting like boring and and other sensitive kind of jumping the shark like trying to I think that the whole know people eating cats thing is kind of like a show in its last season before it's a bit about to get cancelled. Um that's just kind of no longer capturing where people are at IT did for all too many people in two thousand sixteen but you .

know boring is the democratic tackling just kind of funny. But i'm curous what then he fell s into that gap in terms of and I get the idea of when someone is making a mess and themselves be quiet and let them make a mess. But people are curious about her.

They want to know more. I have a lot of trump voting. Relatives are like, well, I consider if I knew more like that kind of stuff .

just going for is the more people see are, the more they like, right people kept saying when he got picked as like, well yeah there's a glow after a few days the party you know officially made her the nominee or before that right when he was unofficially consolidating the party um and they're like, OK is honey moon week but then you know to evaporate and I didn't SHE grew stronger and they said, okay, but then she's going to have debate or okay but what about her first sit down interview and every one of those moments write? The more people see, the more they like, well.

welcome to the world of women. But you know, if you do one thing, do the next thing. But she's being cautious and I know are pretty well and she's a cautious i've actually talked about this.

She's a cautious politician um with the press, with policy details. Do you need to be more aggressive from your perspective? I mean, he is you out there being quite aggressive? I would say.

well, I think IT makes sense to aggressively communicate what were for and the difference between what she's going to do, stuff like growing small business, stuff like dealing with this housing problem that really you know even the left I think is rethinking uh, what we can do uh, left of center IT to have more housing supply come online and she's got a specific you know policy proposal on things like that. Um and yeah, I think the whole campaign where there is her White, it's ten walls, whether it's sergeants people like me go out there or whether it's the organizing cking on doors should continue to aggressively communicate both what she's out to do, which people are generally on board with protecting the right to choose, making sure the wealthy pay their fair share, doing these things like expanding housing and small business are making easy raise family her proposals on paid family weave child tax credit. Um versus you know the other side uh which you can take one of two s you can look at what they're planning, project twenty twenty five and those on popular policies or you can just look at what they did right where he came in, all kinds of promises and we have the results right which the other thing I think we need a more aggressively .

communicate is the results I get. I need like just you need to even be more so because obviously again, people know him and don't know her. And it's even if they think they have said enough, a lot of people don't feel you've said enough and it's such a wide thing.

I know, right. I an if if the question is about adding more kind of to the policy frame let out, I think we will see that. I mean, look, we already you down to the percent point what he thinks the best, uh, ray, for capital gains a taxes. But I also think there's a little bit humility here too, right where you know that you explain what you're about, what your values are, how you would make the big policy calls and then you get to washington and congress happens and the negotiation happens, right? It's not like where we wound up with the inflation reduction act or or the infrastructure bill.

right? But it's like I would like to do this, this, this and this one of the people people seem to like right away and don't really need a lot more from this. Tim walls, you know, lot of people really, I think he reminds someone of their favorite teacher and so got a little and easy route there but you're prepping in first debate with senator J.

D. Vance on october first um you played mike pants in twenty twenty help here is prepared for her debate talk a little bit about this. How are you doing this? What is as weakness as as a debate and how should walls exploit them?

Ah yeah well, first of all it's funny as i'm spending more time with with him, I was asking myself as reflecting last night like why is that I feel like I know him well even though we've interacted through my job his job um you know we've talked here and there but but I feel like I know him Better than I actually do in terms and we have thought think of IT he reminds me, my english teacher you like that that literally is something that you know um but it's the same when you're a room with them as IT is when you're watching them in a rally.

Um and you know as with the V P I, I think uh one thing I like is the more people uh see him, the more appreciated. But especially coming back to the question of policy, the more people sees the policy wins that he delivered, uh, leading minnesota, the more they have seen example of how democratic a party's approach and values also lead to really good results. Like you know kids in school being able to get lunch and economic growth. Um you know in terms of the debate, you know he'll be the first to acknowledge that uh you know he's not know he's not the val law graduate. He he's the high school teacher but you know course he also uh knows what he's doing is as a leader and I think is going to have an opportunity to really an into this fact that when you cut through the noise and you cut through the B S, uh, and you cut through all of the distractions and the outrageous things that the trump fans take a tense to throw up all the chef they put in there, when you come down like what we should do is a country about our big problems, people tend to agree with us. And I think he's kind of straightforward way is going to help .

get that across. okay. So what's the strategy advance? How are you playing him of the grow shag beer or anything like that?

But the day job would permit. Maybe I stop having just to get into IT. But look, I mean, I only get too much in the process. It's important to understand how the other side at you and you know what we see from the campaign is that their strategy involves a lot of distraction and a lot of our rich. And you know who knows what they will be by next week because is something new everyday.

But the point of the very point is to get americans, commentators, journalists, voters, talking and thinking about anything but the difference in plans and visions between the two campaigns. Because if you get down to the plans and visions on, you know, choice, marry, what's most americans are against them. So it'll be all about trying to change the subject. The this is part of, I think, debate wise he did so well against trump is he did all of these things are tried to do all these things um any one of which we could have spent all day talking about uh and it's really tempting to it's really tempting that like think think there are some guy named up who runs the taliban, what many obviously dogs and cats or g um you know SHE dealt with that to the extensive he had to but he never let the debate go on.

So that's the same strategy here. If he goes on to not to I an is attack one of the plans, I would assume. So the sky is easily at look.

I think yeah, there's always going be lots of opportunities to remind viewers of the fundament difference tween what the two campaigns and candidates actually planned to do and IT turns out um even if were debating on terms that the republicans the trump dance campaign thinks are favorable to them, uh even then elections are about the future and americans tend to disagree with what they want to do next to take inflation right? They want to talk mantis lation because with this terrible about of inflation as a country, by the way, every uh developed country did after cover. But the real question, of course, is what's going to happen next? And if you look at the trump fans plans, uh you know, center for american progress estimates, that will add about thirty .

one hundred dollars to the. Will be back in a minute.

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Trumps an emotional bond with tens of millions of americans, very durable, called to personality more than I think people realize. And they their selling and the ants in particular, seems to be the the, the agent for this, uh, darkness when americans want joy, which is something you talk about at the dnc. But obviously, significant portion americans are okay with darkness. Some prefer IT. How do you, you know, I mean, to use the old metaphor, but how do you bring them to the light?

Uh, well, I think show versus tell, right? Somebody is just literally presenting a campaign that if you watch, you know ah especially i've ops there but not only not only that, if you just watch our campaign, if you watch two walls, if you watch come layers, you feel like you're watching something that that would be nice to be part of that you would like to be part of that and that you would belong and uh you know look, I think you're not wrong like in a way that course I consider to be misleading and twisted but still in a way um you know truly created that in thousand and sixteen he created a sense of this thing that he I want a lot of people to get on board with if only because they were so uh fisted everything that that they felt like every institution needed to .

be burned down. Quality with more anging america, make an american carnage.

Well, in the speech that .

and was only I can .

fix IT right there. What's this thing right there was this idea that maybe there is this kind of, uh, dark, uh, fun to being part of that campaign, which I was in many ways kind of a response to the conflicted mood of amErica in the middle of the last decade, which is only one now, where in middle of this decade and the fuel in middle this decade is not like everything's great, everything is fine.

It's more like we as a country have have we have been through some shit, right, a pandemic that killed a million americans, all the economic people that followed uh lots of things happening in the world um the spectacle of a former american president being convicted of crime. And yet like we're also dealing with IT, like we're dealing with, we pulled through the pandemic. We uh got our economy not just like life, but defied the basically hundred percent prediction that we d have a recession, uh, with very much the opposite of a recession. Um we're adding jobs. We've gotten Prices back on on a trajectory and inflation down.

I understand .

just feels I think he's missile lined with the moment right now.

right? Expect that even though the us far outpacing every other develop nation completely and china forget IT is a hot mass. Um there's also a whole generation of people I know well as you know, tech dude bro influencers, they are king as elon musk.

They love trump cyp to grows, youtube s podcasts, ers, comedians, M M A fighters, regular on stars. And they are probably voting for trump. There is a shift of Young men towards trump.

M, how do you look at that? You know, how do you see what is happening there? And they seem still quite excited about IT, although joo gan seems to be weavering all over the place now, which will be an interesting situation.

So now, you know one thing, I think it's been really important to try to come to terms with is this scrambling in this happen and so on valley where a lot of these guys just tell all of them guys um one might have thought where democrats, you know one of two cycles ago or suddenly kind of all over the place on this um and some of them I just wanted like granda shouldn singing like wait a minute you think of yourself as libertarian and you're lining with politics of somebody who want total control like the office is libertarian.

Not to mention against the right to choose.

which even living inside battle control of of women there. You know, if if, if if one is gonna, leave that aside. They're still like because they .

are well known for helping women there. Super well known.

no. I mean, I do think that pattern is obviously uh, it's hard to miss but also like you know summer gay and they want to like suddenly make excuses for, you know these politicians who are still a officially anti marriage quality, say nothing how they treat the rest B, T, Q community. You know some folks were jewish who I guess have no problem with a guy who you know uh hanging out with hello cos ires uh and inviting them to dinner.

Um I mean jail vancsik ally right on ka carlson right after platforms of how customer um so what what is going on with these contradictions now one one thing I think is really basic, really old fashion politics which is lot of these guys are wealthy and there is a sensitive of your wealthy you do Better under republicans um but I think some of the more sober voices into a on valley uh have point for example, read often has pointed out that um you know when you don't have rule of law, we don't have like stable and responsible leadership and institutions. That's really bad for business. That's really bad for tech um that's really bad for silk valley. Uh and I think that's that's true.

Mark cuban has done more. Cuban has done the same. But one of things you know but their their leaders, the richest man in the world right now, elon mosque, you and I discuss him and I know you can talk about your role of secretary transportation, but one of the things he was mad about was not being invited to that White house event.

How do you look at that? He exemplified by him, not him in particular, but exemplified by him um how how to turn those voters back because he's very power, he's got money is got means, he's got a platform and he's doing his level best to get trump elected. I see why? Because he's in a lot of trouble if trump doesn't get elected .

I think yeah and again, um as you can as I I kick IT into my daydream here but what I will say is um it's it's not that unusual. The matter of fact it's true most of the time through history that the Richard guy in the world is not going to be aligned with a party that believes in um making sure the rich pay their fair share, in making sure there is adequate regulation of businesses so they don't go to too far and hurt people uh and in making sure that uh um uh we have a kind of more uh responsible way forward by the way you know we're pretty union party right and yet for all that like I don't think it's anywhere kind of certain that that um you most business leaders in so icon valley shouldn't prefer democrats again, first all because the rule of law issues that are there.

Secondly because we are a little bit more to you as as the ones who believe in science and don't call climate change hoax and don't um uh constantly uh put ourselves in state of warfare against the academy like we recognize the role of the federal government and promoting reset invented the internet, right? The federal government invented the internet because there is a consensus that we needed government not to handle everything, not to solve everything, not to do everything, but to do certain things, including basic research. right?

You know, you're notice the guy will go on fox news debate just about anyone you're very good at IT that the atlantic magazine called you a sound by surrogate sensation told you have done appropriate eighteen hundred interviews since joining the administration. Have you? You've got on fox.

You go on all all of these things, and you do rather well there. And they seem to like you the the audience does seem to like you create viral moments uh you sharp and arguments you communicate to them. Have you thought about going to see elan musk and talking about his problems? 没 听。

So usually when I talk to him it's it's um uh over on the official side but um yeah he wants to call up and talk politics. I be happy to do that. I mean, like look, he reminds me of like your super smart friend who's really good at lots of things but then you get him going on politics and suddenly he he sounds like your your roommate from freshman year who would just discovered libertarians like doesn't make a much less smart. But it's certainly wake, right. Um and I do think there's going to there's going to be a moment when a lot of folks and this is not directed any one person, but as a lot of folks in this mode today who are also later gna have to kind of come home IT doesn't an that will come home to gree with me on everything politically but like get to a place it's like a little more responsible and Normal um and i'm happy to talk anybody tried to bring that about so talk .

about this strategy of going going to fox and was going I mean, you have talked about this a little bit but IT get you've got to persuade conservatives correct? I mean have to persuade people who aren't necessarily in your side and now vice present Harris has been underestimated by the political class constantly. Um she's outperformed expectations here. Um how do you get heard hurt by those people? You are hurt by those people, but how do you get hurt by those to appeal the disengage voters who were turned off by politics um and aren't just moved by vibes necessarily.

What part of i'm trying to do is make sure that certain facts get air and and before those fast can get that be believed, they at least have to be mentioned. And I think in certain spaces like fox news, they won't be mentioned unless they're mentioned by somebody like me.

Again, I just talking about facts like the fact that crime went up under dialed trump and the fact that crime went down after he got be something everybody cares about, but definitely something conservatives care about and then and yet literally probably don't know most conservatives now get most of their information from new sources that won't mention that fact even they cover crime at uh certain facts all the way to like facts about spring feel ohio right um and so part of IT before even get to me saying why I believe come Harris will be a good president is just like some facts about what's going on in our country that a lot of people literally don't know. I can give mad of them for not believing IT if they don't even they never heard that the manufacturing numbers. I mean, this is really personal for me.

Coming out of the industrial west, a lot of people literally don't know. And you can tell from jd answers speeches that he's plant trading off of this. A lot of people literally either don't know or they knew. And then they haven't been reminded lately they were had a manufacturing recession under trump before cover, right? In the way of this massive manufacturing boom now, where the places like I grew up, where, you know, we hadn't had a multibillion dollar or investment in manufacturing where I come from since study Bakers in one thousand nine hundred and sixty three there, like one exception in and now we got like three different things going on right now in accounting in inDiana.

So did you need to do that to go to those places? You're great. But let me actually let me get to this expert question .

because it's in that game. I think most of us agree that common haris is running a great campaign so far, but no campaign is perfect. So i'm curious what you would be doing right now if you were in her position? And what do you think the campaign is left on the table so far? There's always things you can't get done in a campaign, and there's always things you want to try to do in a campaign.

Never quick. The resources of the ban were at the time what's missions right now from the haris campaign? thanks. Well, look, if if, if, if you are the candidate, you would do things differently because it's right, every campaigners from design around the strength of the candidate. So I I I would never advise her to do ah all of the things that I would do um because each one of us built a campaign around our strength.

But the biggest piece of advice I would have for anybody running the cycle is something that SHE doesn't just understand she's doing in ways that that i've really, really appreciated, admired which is finding away to address the same things he doctor says quickly enough that you get right back onto your core, which so that this election is not about him or about her, it's about you, the american. In terms of what we can do more, you know I continue to think there is opportunity in uh rural areas. Um you know I watched back uh in in in inDiana, I watched joe danny become a senator and I don't know how many of our ninety two counties he Carried, but IT was probably about twelve.

But the other thing is some of those other eighty or so counties that he lost, he lost sixty, forty instead of eighty twenty, because he made sure they knew that he cared. I think we have some more opportunities to do that, and i'm excited to see the campaign find ways to do that. It's tough with principal travel. You got a multiple. You ve got to have some cuts out there. You got to think about um you know I look there's a superficial understanding virtual amErica where people might think um that are a rural uh online influencer is a contradiction in terms because you can have this stereotype of like you know old farmer type verses like the Young tech where the reality is like of course like especially you know this part why broadband matter so much but um like of course there are online voices who are especially influential in rural community so might be different. Some ones that we're in the habit.

And so reaching out to them, I mean, I recently of Robert rising, he point out the great recession is a turning point, sweet many americans on politics and made them believe the system was rig against them. You work as a management, consult mckinsey, dan and a fair or not, some boaters who represent the corporate wing of the democratic party. So how do you reach those voters who may or may not be gettable?

I think so what were actually going to do? And I saw the good, the bad, the ugly of of corporate amErica during the couple years that that I spent uh working in the private sector. And um you know that the reality is that people are not wrong to think that uh a lot of time, especially in rural areas or parts of the country like where I come from um they've been screwed over by a the way that that washington has been way too responsive to those corporate interest.

So but again, the question is, is what you going isn't like what posture you strike is what have you done, right? So commonly hz has been a leader in an administration that has done more for consumers standing up to big farma making treating a thirty five dollar insuing uh fighting for uh monos to be broken up. You know a lot of stuff that even democratic administrations previously didn't do uh and republicans definitely aren't going to do um and and again with some of this is back to basics, right like the Donald trumps economic, there's lots of bluster but is the core of his economic vision is tax cuts for the rich and undoing uh regulations that that h affect how corporations can um can behave. We're putting on regulations as .

six largest companies in the world by market cap or tech companies.

Rich people in the world come from tech industry, including in must one of the few issues that you democrats and republicans and desire to limit their influence um is that an area that you all can focus in on at all? If you have to pick one area, you just talk about manufacturing base um but is there is this scene because I I would love to talk to, uh, vice president here is I know what I have an idea of what he thinks about this, but um is that an important thing? There hasn't been much discussion of the enormous wealth in this country.

Amy lobata has been trying to pass in and to trust bill and IT hasn't happened. Is that in the area of of possible interest of people? Is that just not enough time?

I think people are interested to hear you know what her administration will do in order make sure that IT works for people, right? So part is really day stuff like a fair could not attacking people after noon but like IT, right? Um that's kind of a basic thing with recovery in the tax code. Um I think when we think tech uh at times we're thinking jobs right like how do you take these developments set of happen machine learning, uh you know and everything from the implications of machine learning for new train skilled jobs in the cities that are going to shift to the implications machine learning for against sano county, inDiana group where there is a an amazon facility going in eleven billion dollars, which is about eleven times the bigger investment we've had in that county in my lifetime.

Up and the band um there's there's tech as jobs and I think is somebody who you know what was the center of uh where silk values part of her constituency understands that Better of the most and then there's tech democracy and you know um we continue to be a campaign that focused on democracy precisely because we think democracy should not be a part of the issue. And I guess where we need to get to is a framework. And i'm not saying sitting here the next two minutes I can articulate the solutions, a framework where um we are defending free speech uh and defending the principle that no one person or one company should have such power that they can manipulate conversations to their economic and political advantage, which again is a new problem but it's also problem. I mean, you look at the horse and uh the you know the the newspaper bear is one hundred and thirty years ago.

Yeah no, nothing is new. It's just what we we did something about him back now. We don't do anything about moll, be back in a minute.

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I know you've got ta go. So i've just have one one more question for you and for present. As a thirty year old mayor of a college town, you did very well. Uh, I don't if you notice, but you did a obviously, you're too smart to and tell us about your presidental ambitions, but i'm just wondering what's next for you after this.

Did you want to stay in the administration? Do you want to do something else? Run for senator? What is how do you look at post election if trump wins and post election if cma heroines?

Well, I don't know. I mean, that's the that's the honest answer, even if it's also the answer i'm supposed to give um I love my job. Uh it's also not a job that you can do forever um she'll have decisions to make about uh, how heard administration or not a look and out of work um I love public service, but I also love being a dad and I I I love lots of things that are kind of hard to do right while in public service and you know one thing I do know uh and obviously when you run for president you reveal yourself to have ambition and to be interested in public service but um it's not the only thing that brings meaning in in my life I will figure out a way to make myself useful but I also know that everything i've done in politics for public service would have come as a surprise to me like year and a half before I was doing IT. So even more than usual, I think this is a time to be really open and to know that like be the most important thing um uh 破坏 的 鬼 a is to make sure there's a good outcome in november。

And the last thing I would I like ask you very quickly about your kids there's been so much about parenting um and sort of cosplay by the republicans is offensive to me is apparent of four kids i'm sure it's offensive to you not treating you as though you have children for some reason which is zark I know you do um how do you get how do you think of that the parenting thing? How do you think of yourself and a father going forward with your children? It's a very easy question but is is difficult. I think a lot of .

yeah I mean, I think I repair would say that changes everything, right? And um one of the first things that happens to a lot of new parent happened at chester in me with our kids.

There's a idea brain, imagine that you you'll eventually have your life go back to the way I was once they are sleeping through the night or once their uh uh in daycare or school or once their party trained or once you find a consistent babysitter or whatever and IT turns that does not how works and great big part of parenting is uh understanding that your life will not go back to the old life and that's OK right Better than OK it's Better than before. But this is different. Um um the other thing you learn is that it's not about you, right? There's that bRandy. Carla has already the first thing that he took for me. We're selfishness and sleep and like um you know the sleep somewhat comes back although we're going to some new you know ups and downs their chest and particularly as the twins get into their early trees um stage and can get out a bit anytime and can make you up.

But um but the more important thing of course is the selfishness like all these reminders that is not about you and you know what hurts to watch uh somebody like J D and a lot of these politicians talk about parenting is um there are so close to something that we could all find prettifying this marvel that is parting in this question of how do we do how do we make this easier to be a parent on everything from affordability of stuff like parental leave which is as you know, I care a lot about um but IT should be something unifying and weirdly he's managed to take one of the most humbling human unifying things in the world, which is the way we relate to those we love most family parenting, and somehow turn IT into a wedge or a cultural way to attack people. He he doesn't say, like I really think we've got to do these things because these are my family values he says, if you don't agree with me, your anti child, that's what is is just like, are you like, I don't care how wrong I think you are. I would never say you were antia look who says that, you know? And it's too bad because I really think on the other side of this, there is a chance in the name of our identities, and not as democrats or republicans or politicians, whatever, like as parents are for those of us who are parents, and as people for those of us, which is all of us who who have people in our families that we love to have, that actually be where we find the source of of humanity and dignity. It's going to be our salvation.

Cutting through all of the poly, alright, but we leave IT at that.

Thank you so much. people.

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Hey, it's lee from the koto. With new IP top, we spend a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series diving into some of the most unique ways companies are spending money today.

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