cover of episode Why Trump is a Fascist (EXTENDED VERSION)

Why Trump is a Fascist (EXTENDED VERSION)

2024/10/30
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Brooke Gladstone
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Jason Stanley
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Brooke Gladstone: 本期节目讨论了特朗普在麦迪逊广场花园的集会,该集会与1939年德国美国邦德的纳粹集会相似,引发了人们对特朗普法西斯主义倾向的担忧。集会上,特朗普及其盟友发表了种族主义和民族主义言论,进一步加剧了人们的担忧。 Jason Stanley: 将特朗普称为法西斯主义者并非错误,而是应该关注整个法西斯主义的社会和政治运动。美国的法西斯主义运动具有其独特的历史背景,需要关注其社会和政治结构。特朗普是长期存在的法西斯主义社会和政治运动的工具,其意识形态是仇外心理,特别是针对非白人移民的种族主义仇外心理。法西斯主义的目标是移民、LGBTQ人群等弱势群体,法西斯主义运动试图通过控制性别认同、教育体系和媒体来维持其统治地位。当前的美国运动是极右翼的威权反民主运动,应该使用“法西斯主义”一词来准确描述当前的危险状况。 Jason Stanley: 美国经常采用法西斯主义的解决方案来处理国家问题,例如,美国的监狱系统就是一个法西斯主义的解决方案。人们投票支持特朗普的原因与他的法西斯主义倾向有关。法西斯主义的言论最终会转化为政策。将某一群体描述为害虫,就为将他们视为害虫并采取相应行动提供了理由。将政治对手标记为国家的敌人,是将其作为打击目标的理由。当代美国的法西斯主义运动是由寡头利益集团领导的,石油巨头也在推动法西斯主义运动。法西斯主义运动需要各种利益集团的支持,亿万富翁阶级利用法西斯主义运动来转移公众对自身剥削的注意力。巨大的财富不平等是法西斯主义运动的结构性条件之一,巨大的财富不平等导致民众的怨恨,而法西斯主义运动会利用这种怨恨。媒体未能有效地传达法西斯主义政策的危害性,未能充分解释特朗普政策对不同群体的潜在影响,对选民舞弊等阴谋论的报道不够严谨。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why is Donald Trump being called a fascist?

Critics argue his rhetoric, policies, and actions align with fascist characteristics, targeting immigrants, LGBTQ people, and promoting nationalistic ideals.

Why is the comparison to the 1939 Nazi rally at Madison Square Garden significant?

Both events featured nationalistic rhetoric, racist insults, and drew large crowds, highlighting a similar fascist atmosphere.

Why does Jason Stanley argue that focusing on Trump alone is a mistake?

He believes it's a broader fascist social and political movement, not just Trump, with roots in American history and policies like Jim Crow.

Why does Stanley argue that Trump has an ideology?

His ideology is xenophobia and racist xenophobia against non-white immigrants, which is central to his policies and rhetoric.

Why does Stanley believe the word 'fascism' is still relevant?

It's necessary to describe the current movement accurately, as it shares many characteristics with historical fascist regimes.

Why does Stanley argue that the media has failed in its role?

The media hasn't effectively communicated the severity of fascist policies and their real-life impacts on targeted groups.

Why does Stanley believe that unions are a target of fascism?

Unions promote materialist politics, which conflict with fascist ideologies focused on national identity and non-materialist goals.

Chapters
The episode opens with a comparison between Trump's recent rally at Madison Square Garden and a 1939 pro-Nazi rally, highlighting the alarming similarities in rhetoric and atmosphere.
  • Trump's rally draws comparisons to a 1939 Nazi rally.
  • Speeches at both events featured racist and nationalistic rhetoric.
  • The crowd at Trump's rally was warmed up by an insult comic.

Shownotes Transcript

Donald Trump is being called a fascist – by his former appointees and his opponent Kamala Harris.

On Sunday, in a rally at Madison Square Garden in New York, Trump and his allies traded in crude and racist insults, amplifying the nationalistic rhetoric his camp has become known for. The event drew stark comparisons to another gathering at the Garden–a 1939 "Pro-American Rally)," put on by the German-American Bund, a pro-Nazi group, with 20,000 of its members in attendance. 

The MAGA rally, for some, was the tipping point for calling Donald Trump a fascist. For others, it was simply another piece of evidence placed atop an already very tall stack.

Host Brooke Gladstone speaks with Jason Stanley), a professor of philosophy at Yale University and author of Erasing History: How Fascists Rewrite the Past to Control the Future). He first warned about Trump’s fascist rhetoric in 2018, and explains why it's more important than ever to call it by its name.*A portion of this interview originally aired in our October 25, 2024, program, *Fascism, Fear and the Science Behind Horror Films.)

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