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I know I usually save my secrets for the end of the episode, but I'm going to tell you my secret favorite candy. It's Reese's Peanut Butter Cup.
It's really Reese's anything. But Reese's peanut butter cups are the thing that I'm like, have I had a bad day? I get these. Have I had a good day? I get these. Chocolate, salty peanut butter, the textures. I love everything about them. Also that there's two. So I'm like, oh, I get this one for later, which is one second later. Anyway, Reese's peanut butter cups. I love you. That's all. If you're me, you can shop Reese's peanut butter cups now at a store near you. Found wherever candy is sold. And I am.
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Oh, hey, it's the lady that hosts that podcast. And let's get right in. You don't need me talking about talking about capybaras. Okay, so we're going to chat with the associate professor of biology, the only North American expert in these furry, gorgeous charmers. So capybaras, side note, they're those super...
snub-nosed, they're bricks of relaxation. These creatures that just are chilling, you may have seen them in video footage, maybe they got a bird on their head, maybe you watched it on a loop to help you forget about your divorce for a few moments. Everyone loves a capybara.
So this expert did her undergrad at Kent State University in zoology, got a PhD in biology at the University of Missouri, St. Louis, and has collaborated with the folks who wrote the actual textbook on this exceptional neotropical species, as they call them. So we're going to chat in a sec, but first, thank you to everyone who supports
this show on Patreon for a dollar a month at patreon.com slash ologies. You can wear our shirts and hats and socks via ologiesmerch.com. We also have free shorter and G-rated cuts of our episodes. Those are up at aliwarren.com slash smologies. All those things are linked in the show notes. And also thank you so much to everyone who has ever left a review, which helps the show so much. I read
Every single one, like this week from LaRozCo1, who said that they love the variety of personalities that make each episode special, as well as the secrets that I tell you at the end of the episode, just in case you did not know that I do that. Also, I just want to shout out to new oligite Mr. James Allison, who left a two-star review after his first time listening. James did not enjoy that the topic of one episode was...
Science Poetry, as the title suggested. Just a reminder, you can click on any episode you'd like. You can choose which one you listen to. Also, if you go to ologies.com, you will find 375 plus episodes over six and a half years of doing the show. We cover everything from worms...
in the ocean mud to the vastness of the universe, all for free. So have at it, headologies.com. Okay, hydrochoerology derives from this animal's scientific name, which in Greek means pig of the water. Okay, so draw yourself a bath, put a piece of fruit on your head, and let's get ready for a weird feat, scrawl.
square faces, interspecies snorkeling, capybara cafes, spa days, natural habitats, escaped capybara, and rodents of unusual size, a fossil record that will rock you, what the Pope thinks of them, capybara songs, books, movies, and so much more with zoologist, associate professor of biology, absolute capybara expert, and thus hydro-coerologist, Dr. Elizabeth Beth Congdon.
You know how exciting this is. This is what you do for a job. Well, it is. I mean, and it's so funny because I'm like, oh, what? Talk about capybaras for an hour? Yeah, not a problem. I love it. I love it. Okay. Elizabeth Congdon, she, her, and I am at Bethune-Cookman University and I'm an associate professor of biology. Amazing. Okay. First question, hydro...
Is that a word? Well, no. But I think it should be, quite frankly. Okay. So, yeah, I'm with it. Hydrochorologist. Yeah. Okay. And...
Capybara. Capybara. How is it said? So in English, capybara. But of course, they don't occur in any English speaking countries. So capybara or in Brazil, capybara. In Peru, bronzoca.
in Venezuela, Chiguire. So they go by a lot of different names. But in the native Venezuelan language, capybara translates to master of the grasses. How cool is that? That's so great. I love that there are mammals who are
less adept at grasses. There's a hierarchy like I'm really good at grass. Yeah, I think grass really well. Just have pioneered the art of grass. Now,
How big are they? Because so many of us have seen videos, but not necessarily with a person. Like how, like dog size, cat size? More dog, large dog. And they vary a little bit. So in the North, they're a little bit smaller, but a little bit smaller is still like 50 to 55 kilograms. American translation, over 120 pounds. As much as a Great Dane. In Britain...
In Brazil, where they're protected, they actually grow up to 75 kilograms, which is close to 150 pounds. No. Yeah. No. Huge. Now, they're chunky. So they're shaped kind of like a pig. Or the way I think of them is they have the body of a pygmy hippo.
And so they're solid, right? And this would be in the rainy season when there's plenty of grass to eat. Yeah, they're solid little buggers. And standing next to one, it's going to come up at least to your knee, if not a little taller. There are some pictures out there because people do have them as pets. I don't know why. More on the feasibility of all of your hopes and dreams in a bit. I can't.
believe it. I thought they were maybe the size of like a French bulldog. Oh no. Yeah. It's crazy. I know. So they are literally the largest rodent species in the world. And the second largest is the beaver. Nice beaver. Oh wow. And yet the beaver is like less than half their size.
Is a beaver a rodent? Yes. Okay, a beaver is a rodent. We haven't done a beaver episode, so this is also, I suppose, news to me. I got a guy in Montana for castorology. Just you wait.
But yeah, keep going. So basically what makes a rodent a rodent is that their incisors continue to grow. So their two front teeth are super sharp and that helps them like cut through the grass, right? If you think about trying to eat a piece of celery and it gets all stringy, so they have super sharp teeth so that they can just cut right through the grass, you know, without having the stringy problem. And they need to,
gnaw on something like if you've ever had a pet guinea pig, gerbil, hamster, they gnaw on wood in their cage and stuff like that. That helps wear down the teeth and keep them sharp.
Because otherwise, they'll just keep growing and they can be really dangerous if they grow like down into their chin, essentially. So yeah, that's a rodent. And if you're thirsty for more information, you can head to the sewers for our urban rodentology episode with the endearing and lovable New York City rat expert, Dr. Bobby Corrigan, an episode during which I cry about rats in a good way. But back to South America. And-
Is grass enough to keep their teeth sharp and worn down or are they out there eating all kinds of stuff? They'll gnaw on wood occasionally to keep their teeth worn down. But typically when they're munching on the grasses and a few other plants, that keeps their teeth worn down as well.
What are their teeth like? Like, how big are their teeth? I imagine you've probably gotten up close much more than anyone else I'm ever going to meet. Yeah, actually, I have a couple because I've saved them because, of course, I did. Their top teeth, I mean, they're curved, but they're like good four inches. Beth rustled around her desk for one that she had on hand, like other people might have an eraser or hand lotion. A good three and a half inches.
three and a half inches anyway on the full grown. Yeah. And the bottom ones are a little bit smaller. In Venezuela, they taste really good. No, I was wondering about that if people eat them. They do. So being that they eat primarily grass, they taste like cow.
except if you think they're entirely grass-fed. So they're like a really good grass-fed beef. And so in Venezuela, they're harvested right before Lent every year. And with a managed harvest, a census is taken and then ranchers will get permits to take 20% of their population. And I worked on a ranch that participated in that. And so every spring...
Basically, I could take my pick of capybara teeth, among other things. It was the less glamorous part of the research. But they've actually become a bit of a traditional meal during Lent because they are semi-aquatic. And so in 1784, the Pope declared them fish. It's a fish. That's...
So bonkers. Why? Do they even have capybaras in Italy? What did the Pope have to do with any of this? No, nothing other than, well, they wanted to convert Venezuelans to Christianity, Catholicism. But
Venezuelans really like their meat. And when they explore, you know, I can't remember the name of the individual, but sent back a description of capybaras to the Pope, described them as, you know, being in the water. And so the Pope said, well, all right, let's call them fish. And so they eat during Lent. The Venezuelans will not eat other meats, but they eat capybara.
Is it beefy or is it piggy? It's beefy. It tastes like cow. And...
This is absolutely bonkers to me. But I have so many questions. Are there enough to eat them or are they pretty endangered? So it really depends on where you are. Brazil, they're protected. So it's illegal to kill them in Brazil. So they're almost a nuisance. If you think about in the United States, some of the places where the deer get overpopulated and become a nuisance are
to people's, you know, get into people's gardens and things like that. In Brazil, the capybaras start getting into people's crops and things because there are so many of them. But in Venezuela, where, of course, the economy is struggling, and so people are somewhat desperate for
adequate food and in particular meat, outside of protected areas, you really don't see any capybaras. They're in private cattle ranches or in protected areas. And they're actually worth more per kilo. The meat costs more per kilo than beef does. So there's incentive for the ranchers to protect them. So when they're protecting their cows from poachers, they're also protecting the capybaras. And are they managed like in corrals?
No, they're territorial. So they're not really trying to go anywhere. Now, my dissertation research was looking at their movement patterns and natal dispersal. When the young ones mature, do they stay with the social group they were born in or do they leave? And what I found for the most part, the females will stay with their natal social group, but the males will leave and find another group.
And so occasionally you'll see a lone male wandering out in the savanna. Hello, ladies. But they become lunch pretty quick. And for the most part, they're going to stay because these cattle ranches are just huge. And so they just wander to another group a little bit across the grassland. And what we don't know is how a capybara lives.
sort of sidles up to an established group of capybaras and introduces himself. That's what I wanted to do for my next study, honestly. You would have to be out in kind of the wilds where they're doing their thing in these long ranges, right? Would you have to really be like traveling for that? Yeah. So for my dissertation work, I lived on a cattle ranch in Ato El Cedral, which is in Apure State, Venezuela. And I lived there on and off for about two and a half years.
There's also an eco lodge on the ranch. And so they had infrastructure, a translator while I was still learning my Spanish and things. And they had a kitchen there that I could use and things like that. And they had an extra cabin that they let me stay in free of charge while I did my research. Dang. So getting to your history, I want to know how someone becomes essentially the North American expert on this. When I was in
For my master's, I studied primates in Venezuela. And I was just absolutely became enamored, just enthralled with tropical forests, with conservation, seeing animals in the wild. I was just hooked there.
And so for my PhD, I wanted to do something in the tropics, but I didn't want to stick with primates because I did not want to be a primatologist. Not that there's anything wrong with being a primatologist, but many primatologists are in anthropology departments. And I wanted to be in an ecology department. I wanted to have a broader focus.
And so I happen to be at the University of Missouri, St. Louis, and my major advisor, her name is Zulema Tang Martinez. She is Venezuelan, has lived in the U.S. for over 40 years. But she had a colleague, Emilio Herrera, who was at the University Simón Bolívar University.
in Venezuela. And so she said, you know, my friend Emilio is looking for someone to do field work for capybaras because he wants to be in the lab more. And I said, well, I don't like being in the lab. I want to be in the field. Nice. And so Emilio and I teamed up and I went down and met him and saw the ranch and everything. And we established a collaboration.
Had you done a lot of traveling before that in your life? And were you familiar with the work of doing a dissertation or a PhD? What was your background like? So I started out pre-vet, as a lot of people do, right? When you love animals and you're good in science, it's like, oh, well, go pre-vet. So I started out that way. But then I worked at a small animal practice throughout undergrad and realized that...
But veterinarians spend so much time talking to people about their pets. And I don't want to talk to people. I shouldn't say that as I'm talking to people. But I mean, my thing was I wanted to work with the animal. I wanted to be more directly involved with the animals more than the... And I found it so heart-wrenching when you had an animal that was ill and it was because the owner wouldn't take care of it.
And of course, there are cases of animal neglect just straight up, but there are also financial and mental health factors. And if you're considering giving an animal a good home and you can afford the time and the vet care, shelters are overrun with owner surrenders right now post lockdown. So you deserve unconditional love from a hairy baby. And those critters deserve a safe home. I just that's not something I wanted.
to deal with for, for my job. So I started exploring other possibilities. And so I got an internship volunteering at the Cleveland zoo. And this was back in, I'm going to age myself, the mid, mid nineties. And, um, it was when the Cleveland zoo first established a research office and hired their first research coordinator.
And so I was like among the first cohort of volunteers to collect behavioral data with the animals instead of cleaning up poop, which is what you usually have to do when you get started. Yes, we have a poop episode. It's called Scatology with a zoo poo biologist. And yes, if you can volunteer anywhere that you love being, it could really change everything. I did a field trip episode about the Natural History Museum of LA. There would be no ologies without that time in my life.
And unfortunately, volunteer positions don't pay and a lot of internships don't either. So it's really a privilege to afford the time. But if you can give even a few hours a week, I've found it was worth every second to lift my spirits and help narrow down what you love while hopefully helping some people too. So-
I went into it thinking I wanted to be like a zookeeper and go into animal care. And that was my first assignment was to do behavioral observations of Chilean flamingos. And I just fell in love with the process. Everything from creating the data sheets, collecting the data, figuring out how to analyze it. And that's a whole other podcast about the flamingos. Speaking though of birds and the bees.
I want to know how capybaras date. You know, you grow up, you leave home. How do you find a new group? How do you introduce yourself?
if you're a capybara. Hi there. Hi. Hello. Where do they originate from? And what is, like, geographically, where are they? And how long have they been there? So basically, they are from the Panama Canal all the way down to northern Argentina. So they're just in Latin America. There are no natural populations in North America or in Africa. And I believe
And I believe there was a fossil, like a 600-pound fossil. Okay, so about 25 years ago, the skeleton of a 600-ish pound rodent named Phobarimus petersoni was found. But then in 2008, a bigger extinct rodent emerged on the fossil scene, the Josephoartigasia monasin, which may have weighed in at 1%.
1,000 kilograms or 2,200 pounds. Here you are. You're going about your life. You're deciding what burrito bowl to order for lunch on a planet that once had rodents weighing more than a Ford Fiesta. Good luck going back to your old life after this episode. It's never going to happen. How did they get so big? Well, the way I think about it is not so much how did they get so big, but
How did they survive being that big? Yeah. Right? So if you think bigger, more babies. Capybara's do have more offspring than would be expected from an animal their size or from another mammal, right? So they average about four offspring per litter, but they can have eight, nine. I saw one with 10, but that was a rare, rare event. Bigger animal, more offspring, more offspring, more of them in the next generation. And then it just is a...
is sort of a forward loop where in Africa, you have a lot of different grazers, a lot of different grass feeders and browsers and things. But in Latin America, you have deer and capybaras. Oh, not much else. Oh, they are the master of the grass. They just once they found their niche, they were like, cool, this is ours.
The deer can't compete with them, maybe? Well, the deer tend to be browsers. So they're eating like the lower on the lower branches of trees and leaves off of lower things and in the brush, whereas the capybaras are the grass. They're eating slightly different foods in terms of the species that they eat.
Speaking of other species, are they okay with other animals? Do they have natural predators? Why do we see so many videos where they got monkeys on their heads or they're chilling with crocs or they're like raising kittens? What's going on with that? I know. So I think really it's that they're super chill. So I was just watching a clip of them in the movie Encanto.
They're completely nonchalant, like whatever. And the way I think of them in the field too is give me a patch of grass. I'm good. Don't bother me. Leave me alone. And so now, of course, in the zoos, they've got monkeys crawling around on their backs and everything. But also in the wild, I have seen them where they are in the water and there's a turtle that crawls up on the back and basks on the back of the capybara like it's a log. Iguanas, birds just riding around on their back while they're swimming around. And...
There are caiman in the same habitat. And also the particular ranch I worked at had introduced Orinoco crocodiles because they are endangered. And I have a photograph of capybaras sleeping right next to the Orinoco croc. Why don't they attack each other? Well, I mean, I can't ask the crocodile, of course, but it would appear that the crocodile is not hungry.
There's plenty of fish. Crocodiles eat fish. Just a PS, ornico crocs are native to the Ornico River in Venezuela and are these critically endangered, long, snooted water beasts. They pretty much only eat fish and they're not hunting capybaras because very few of these crocodiles are Catholic. But back to your question of their natural predators, jaguars...
Oh, anacondas. Yeah, there are big anacondas. And so a big anaconda can wrap around and take an adult capybara.
And a person, too, yeah. Well, yeah. That's a whole movie genre unto itself, of course. Right? Anacondas are a perfect killing machine. And then the baby capybaras are snacks for just about anything. Baby capybaras are about the size of an adult guinea pig. Oh, that's a baby. Yeah. And they are most closely related to guinea pigs. So if you think about the shape of their head and stuff, they're kind of like giant guinea pigs.
Getting back to chill, because I don't think I had more questions than, why are they so chill? Even my sister asked. I just texted her. She's a cabbibara enthusiast. Celeste, Saucy, this one's for you. And she's like, please ask, why are they so chill? Do they have...
bigger brains that are like, I'm not threatened? Or do they have tiny little walnuts that are like, who could not like me? I love them dearly, but I don't think they're the brightest in the bunch. I really don't. Because I think what it is, is because they eat grass, grass takes a long time to digest. God, I'm so full. And so their metabolism is somewhat slow. And if you think about how cows are,
Like, okay, I'm just, you know, eating my grass, chilling, standing here. Also, because of their size, there aren't very many natural predators. So they can afford to be predators.
kind of chill and relaxed. Now they will. I have seen a mama capybara back down a caiman when that caiman was going after her babies. And, you know, they can run pretty fast for short distances. That's got to be so weird to see one just galloping full speed. Yeah, they are kind of funny. They're not the most graceful. I needed to know how fast our beautiful piggy friends can run. And I was alarmed.
To learn, it's up to 35 kilometers or 22 miles an hour. That is a speed comparable to a horse. The world's largest rodent running as fast as a horse.
Into your arms? Maybe. But in looking this up, I also learned that the lethal black mamba snake can move about 20 miles an hour, which is as fast as an Olympic sprinter. One animal that can go twice that speed, 40 miles an hour, is called a Mongolian wild ass, which...
100% sounds like a hot sauce that your brother-in-law brings to Thanksgiving. Let's talk about the zeitgeist. So what do you use to catch a capybara? Well...
How about another capybara on a leash? They trucked in capybaras from zoos all around the region, and zookeepers recorded the times each contestant entered a hot bath and then left. I'm sorry, are we bothering you with this story, Keith? I didn't even know that these animals were trending on TikTok until my 25-year-old daughter said, oh my gosh, mom, you get to go do that? ...training a capybara named Tater Tot. Ha!
That's a great name. Millions of likes and a cult following on TikTok. And now a local business is feeling the capybara craze. They are kind of cute, right? Let's talk about the world's love of capybaras. What has gone on? And you've been researching this for so long.
At what point did you see like, holy shit, people really love capybaras? When did the internet fall in love with them? Well, certainly the internet's helped. But one of the things I always find interesting is that when I meet families, it tends to be the kids that know what capybaras are. Yes. Yeah. And up until recently, if adults knew what they were, it was only because they loved the movie The Princess Bride. R-O-U-S-S. Rodents of Unusual Size. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Wesley, what about the R.R.U.S.'s? Rodents of unusual size? I don't think they exist. I mean, for the first couple of years I started studying, that's why I got that all the time. Oh my God, R.R.U.S.'s. And I used to get kind of upset because I'm like, they're not that ugly. In the movie, they were made to look like giant New York City rats. I'm like, they're so much cuter than that. Okay, so I...
dug deep on the internet and I found a PDF script for the classic 1987 romance fantasy masterpiece The Princess Bride. And the screenplay directions described the rodents of unusual size as, quote, no more than 80 pounds of bone and power. And in the film, the R-O-U-S's are these tree-dwelling rodents
carnivorous predators of the bog. And all that being said, they are still smaller than actual capybaras. So does that ever disturb you as someone who is a hydrochoreologist that capybaras were done so dirty?
Um, I have, I have learned to let it go. Mostly because my friends hate it when I interrupt a good movie to say that's not right. Especially if it's a cartoon. It's a cartoon, let it go. But it's so great to just see people appreciating them, you know. But I still think one of my favorite was
Do you remember the cartoon, The Tick? Oh, yeah, of course. And The Tick's pet was a capybara named Speak. Good boy, Speak! I love you. And then it was the young people who, when the internet really started getting popular, it was the young people that were on the internet. And so they just somehow blew up. They went viral. How do you feel about them wearing oranges on their head? So...
I mean, they're going to do people are going to do what they do in in zoos. But I, I really don't like exotic animals being like pets. I mean, people do it, but I prefer people stick to dogs and cats and not. I mean, you really want to see me get upset, put a monkey in a dress. Oh.
Yes, or a diaper. I've heard terrible things about that. The thing about capybaras is I don't understand why people would... They're not cuddly.
I mean, of course, you can get to know them and I'm sure they have some kind of, you know, a personality that you can become endeared to and things. But I like to appreciate them in there, in the wild. I like to leave them there. Not recommended as pets. That was another massive question we got. They look maybe like they could be soft, but are they bristly? They're bristly. Yeah. So they're not like a pillow.
It's interesting because in Venezuela, people eat them, but they do not use the hide for leather. In Argentina, they use the hide for leather, but they do not eat them. What's up with that? What do they do with the hides? It makes a really soft, like calfskin-like leather. But what are they doing with them if they're not using them? In Venezuela, oh, they just toss them into, they just let them rot.
Yeah. I got a business proposition for you. When I was there, I'm like, okay, so how about Argentina send the meat to Venezuela, Venezuela send the hides to Argentina? I mean, couldn't we make this more efficient? But, you know, Venezuelans and Argentinians are kind of rivals. Oh, man. We need a diplomat down there. Listen, everyone, fewer Gaviberas need to die. Everyone's making a lot more money. What do they smell like?
Okay, well, again, I was in the wild. They didn't smell great. They smell better if they're a pet or in a zoo, but I can't come up with a description off the top of my head. Musky? Are they musky? Are they barnyard? Like...
dusty. They smelled kind of dusty because I was in the Savannah and I would capture them to put ear tags because it's very difficult to tell them apart. Actually, I hired local cowboys who would lasso them from horseback.
And then once they had one lassoed, I would drive my Jeep across the Savannah to meet them. And then I would put an ear tag, take measurements, take a tissue sample so we could do genetics. And that was during the dry season. And so it just was everything was very dusty and they kind of had that just dirt smell, but clean dirt, I must say.
Would you have to give them like a Xanax for that? We didn't for the most part. We would just do it as quickly as we could. It only took like 10 minutes to do all the processing. So rather than risk some sort of negative side effect to any kind of anesthetic or sedative, we just...
Did it as quick as we could and released them. And they would come back to their range, you know, within a couple of days. I'm just going to lay low, man. So they would kind of run away immediately, of course, but then they would be back within a couple of days. They'd be like, oh, it's fine. Yeah. Again, they're chill. Did you ever take the opportunity scientifically to boop them on the snoot at all? No.
I never booped. Okay. I did not boop, but I did have the opportunity once there was a baby that was orphaned and someone brought it to me. So I did have the opportunity to bottle feed a baby for a few days. And that was that little baby, that one I booped. I don't blame you. I don't blame you. He slept in my hammock with me. Oh, okay.
These are the perks of being a hydrochoreologist. And I totally admit that it is not fair. It is not fair that I tell people that they cannot have them as a pet, but I got to play with the baby for a week. Not fair. Yeah.
If it makes people feel any better, I was in school for a really long time and I still don't make great money. There are trade-offs. There are trade-offs to everything. Your sacrifice. Well, knowing, okay, so looking at their nose, and I feel like maybe I read this through your research, that males produce a lot of copious amounts of secretions and
to be attractive? So they have a scent gland on their nose. Males and females have the gland, but it's much more pronounced in males. So you can actually, from a distance, tell a male it's a male by this, it's called a morillo, which is Spanish for like little hill. It looks like they have a computer mouse sitting on their nose. Wow.
Because it's this bump. And they produce this milky secretion. And the dominant males produce more than the more subordinate or juvenile males. And they produce more than females. Now, females will not scent mark with their snout. Males will. Males will go over, rub on a tree, rub on vegetation. They'll pretty much scent mark anything they can get near. When I was observing them, as long as I was downwind so they couldn't smell me,
they would come over and scent mark on my tripod. Oh gosh. But the females and the males both have scent glands in their anal region, anal scent glands. And so they scent mark with those as well. And this would be basically communication.
within the group, right? They're signaling that we are a part of this group. Who is sexually receptive at what time? Are you seeing anyone? Who's the dominant and who's the subordinate? And so that whole communication is through those scent glands and through those scents.
Did you ever have to smell your tripod afterward? Did that have a smell? No. I would clean that up. Yeah. So when someone posts a sign in the break room about how the office manager is not your mom, so please wash your own coffee mugs, just remember...
Some jobs involve smearing capybara nose musk off of your belongings. And I asked the internet, and apparently this sultry face juice has a mild musky odor, like that of a beaver or a muskrat, which did not help me at all because I have sniffed neither of those things, even in a platonic way. But yes, a male capy will have this nose lump. It looks kind of like a face scab, but it's just his riz. What?
What about, they have these big square noses. Is the scent gland part of the size of that? And why generally are they so square? They're such blocky animals. So if you look at photos of them when they're swimming, they have just the top of their head out of the water. And with just a little bit of the top of their head out of the water, their nostrils, eyes, and scent gland are out of the water. Oh, okay. So that box-like shape
allows them to be almost completely submerged, but still have their nostrils and eyes above the water. When there is a predator, they will run into the water. Their territory always has a body of water, an area of bushes that they can sleep in, hide in, that's where they hide the babies, and then a grassy area where they eat. They alarm call, they alarm call. So they warn each other when a predator is coming. So they have this like
honk, bark, crossover. And when someone sounds an alarm in the group, everybody jumps in the water. Really? Do they have different alarm calls for different things? Their alarm call is pretty much just one type, but they do have different vocalizations. So they have that and then they have this like chirping, clicking sound.
That is more when they're playing or when they're mating. So they have like an affiliative, a friendly sound. And then an, oh crap, there's a jaguar sound. I'm glad that we've answered that. Can I ask you some listener questions? Yeah, absolutely.
Okay, but before we soak in the misty waters of your inquiries, let's give to a charity. And this week, Beth chose a critter cause that was close to her heart and her home, and that's Edgewater Rescue in Florida, where she helps train and find homes for rescue dogs like pit bulls and boxers, which are also smaller than capybaras. I can't get over that they could be 150 pounds. It's what?
I didn't know. Anyway, yeah, that donation went to edgewateranimalshelter.org in her name, and that was made possible by sponsors of the show.
When U.S. Bank says they're in it with you, they mean it. Not just for the good stuff, the grand openings and celebrations, although those are pretty great, but for all the hard work it took to get there. The fine tuning of goals, the managing of cash and workflows, and decision making. They're in to help you through all of it.
because together they're proving day in and day out that there is nothing as powerful as the power of us. Visit usbank.com to get started today. Equal housing lender, member FDIC, copyright 2024, US Bank. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. And as I record this, my dog, Gremmy, is snoring. Gremmy is snoring.
Sometimes you gotta stop and smell the roses. Sometimes you gotta stop and record the snoring. Even when we know what makes us happy, it's hard to make time for it. And when you feel like you have no time for yourself, non-negotiables like therapy are more important than ever. So if you were thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online. It's designed to be convenient and flexible.
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This episode is brought to you by Merrick Pet Care. And y'all know I have a little dog named Gremmy, which is short for Gremlin. And y'all helped me name her. And there's nothing that we like more than seeing her happy, which means tasty dog foods. And Merrick has been crafting high quality dog food for over 30 years. They were founded in Hereford, Texas.
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Okay, so think about your childhood and think about some highlights. I bet they were probably out essentially tinkering. This is why I love KiwiCo. Each month, they send a kid a crate. It's packed with these engaging hands-on activities. They introduce them to science and technology and art concepts.
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Okay, your questions. Patreon pals, friends, and BFF tiers get to submit audio questions now, which may run on the show, but any patron can join for a dollar a month and submit written questions. I may read your name and your question on the show, so let us cap this off with your very good questions. Okay, questions from patrons. Kelsey lives in California.
This is a good story. Hi, my name is Kelsey and I live in California. When I was in college, I went to college in Texas and for a summer I commuted between Waco and Houston every weekend. And one night, late one night, I was driving down a country road and I had to slam on the brakes because there were like 12 brown white
rocks crossing the road. And people have tried to tell me that those were nutria, but I've googled nutria and they're like little muskrats, basically. These things were huge. I mean,
They definitely looked like if I slammed into one, the car would be hurt and the animal would be fine. So is there a chance that there were a cappy bar in Texas? Thank you for helping me solve this mystery.
There is absolutely a chance. So really? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So one of the things Texas is known for, unfortunately, is ranches that have canned hunting. OK, so there would be a ranch and they have exotic animals and people pay thousands of dollars to have the opportunity to go and shoot animals.
A lion or a giraffe. And I think it's horrible just to make that clear. I'm not advocating for that at all. But there are a few ranches in Texas that have capybaras. If you ask me, it's not a real sporting sport to me.
shoot at capybaras that are contained by a fence. It's like shooting fish in a barrel anyway. But people will pay for this. So there's absolutely a possibility that some escaped. And yeah, we're wandering across the road. We have some sightings sometimes here in Florida. There was one, I think in 2018, somebody hit a capybara with a car. Yikes.
And that's a big boy, right? Yeah. Typically, if there's just one, it's going to be a big male that's trying to find a new home. The story goes here in Florida that a small group escaped from a research facility in the 90s and then reproduced and got up to something like 50 individuals. But there's only really occasional sporadic sightings and nothing of groups that size anymore. So the idea is that they're not invasives.
They're exotic, but they maybe have a few offspring, but not enough to become what we would call invasive, where they really create a problem for the local flora and fauna. So being in Florida, you're not based in Florida because it's getting overrun with capybaras and pythons and all kinds of other things. No, I came to Florida for the job.
Mm hmm. And then was thrilled that there might be capybaras here. This could be too good. So I did work with some people out of University of Florida and we did our best to find them.
And we were not able to locate any kind of breeding population. We'd find an occasional footprint, but that was pretty much it. Okay. I needed more info on this escape drama. And apparently near the Santa Fe River in Florida, near Gainesville, five of them busted out in the chaos of a storm that broke a pasture fence. And according to the 2018 paper, Status of Capybaras and Potential for Establishment in
All the original escapees, they said, were recovered, but they had already started reproducing. So does this mean they're not invasive, but kind of feral? Like if you found a 150-pound puppy and you took it home to feed it organic lettuces. Other patrons, and I know we've addressed this a little bit, have asked, in Aaron's words...
Hey, this is Erin Ryan from Vancouver, Canada. And I'm calling because I would like to dash the hopes and dreams of my friend Allison and just reaffirm that capybaras make terrible pets. Thank you. Well,
Well, I'm going to say two things. One, again, they're not cuddly, but also they like to pee and poo in the water. So you have to have like a pond or a swimming pool in the backyard and then clean the capybara crap out of it. That doesn't sound like any fun to me. No. How big are their poos? Like, are they like Duraflame logs that come out? Are they like guinea pig poo?
poo? No, actually, it's more like pellets. Okay. Like you would think of deer pellets, but a little bit bigger. Okay. Actually, they look like chocolate peanut M&Ms. Honestly, I could deal with that, but the lack of cuddling would be heartbreaking and frankly, a little triggering. But I wasn't the only one thinking about it, dreaming about it. Page
Patrons Average Pie, Molly Petzl, Lissa Mercier, Christina Cimella, Peyton Nill, Codolod, Jasmine Leo, Bianca Palm, and... Jessie LaHope, first-time question asker, wants to know, are they as snuggly as they look? Like, would a capybara let me give it a hug or would it rip my face off or something in between? A baby would give you a hug. Oh. An adult would probably bite you. Okay.
I have been bitten because, again, I lasso them, tackle them and, you know, pierce their ears. And so, you know, I make them mad. So I've gotten nipped. Nothing, you know, nothing serious. But yeah, when you like any animal scare me, I'll bite you. Yeah. Did they bite you on the glove or did they draw blood? Well, one got me in the back of the leg and drew some blood, but nothing too serious. Did you need any antibiotics? No.
Just a little neosporin on that. Well, whether or not I needed some or had some are kind of two different things, possibly. I literally used Krazy Glue on it. What does your family think of your job?
They're getting used to it. Okay. Yeah, they got used to it. When I first went to Venezuela to study the primates and they realized that I was going to be there kind of by myself, that I wasn't there with a whole team, they looked at me a little sideways. But by now, I mean, I've done it enough that they're kind of like, oh, yeah, Aunt Beth is going someplace again. Yeah.
I just think he must be the most exciting person at Thanksgiving. I just feel like all eyes would be on you and asking more questions about having to lasso a capybara, but...
I don't know about exciting, but I tend to have some unusual stories when I'm with my family. But certainly it's what's fun is when I'm, you know, someplace with my other wildlife biology, behavioral ecology friends, and we're all swapping stories about, you know, giant pouched rats in Tanzania or anolis lizards in the Bahamas. And then capybaras, you know, in the savannas are just another story.
And I understand that you are pals with another mammologist and rodentologist we've had on, Dr. Lee, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Dr. Lee and I were in the same lab as grad students and are still really good friends. She's like one of my heroes. Oh, she's amazing. See Dr. Danielle Lee's mammology episode about giant pouched rats that wear backpacks and sniff out landmines. Oh, we love her and her rats.
You were talking about whether or not you can cuddle them, and Megan Hurth and Evan Davis both want to know. Megan's husband wants to know, can I kiss them? Or if they do, they like little kisses on the head. I'm going to guess that's a no. Again, just the babies. Okay. Just the babies. Olivia Lester, first-time question asker, you just mentioned rats. Wanted to know, can they learn commands akin to rats?
I'm not aware of anyone being able to train one with anything as impressive as rats are pretty smart. Okay. So I think this is all stemming from the can a capybara be my best friend? And the answer is this is going to be a no unless you like cleaning up a lot of poop and just not a good idea. I'm sorry, everyone. Heather Crane would like to know about their feet.
Do they also work like hands? Can they grab things with them? No, actually, their feet are more adapted to being able to swim. They have webbed toes. Yeah, so they can dive and they can stay underwater for quite a bit of time. I think like two, two and a half minutes, they can stay underwater when they dive. So they have little webbed toes, which makes them not great for grasping anything, but good for swimming.
Do they have really big lungs for that or just slow metabolism? Just a slow metabolism. Sarah King and Olivia Lester would like to know about their dongs. What's the average penis size for a capybara Sarah would like to know? So I don't have an exact measurement, but it's kind of dog size. The average dog. What's funny is that they're
The penis is carried sort of inside a little pouch in the abdomen. It doesn't like dangle free, so to speak. And so when we would capture them, I would have to like massage their abdomen to see if anything popped out. Oh, okay. And it got to be sort of a talent. Like the locals would take their guesses and then I was...
There's a claim to fame for you. It's like, yeah, I was really good at getting the dong to fling out. You got to know the whole thing. Yeah, all of it. From big nose to tail. Speaking of tails, Maddie Barnard, Mama Bee and Dad Aussie, Mark Hewlett wants to know...
Do they have functional tails? Olivia wants to know why don't they have long tails like other rodents? So they don't have tails really. And again, it's if you think about like a guinea pig doesn't have a tail. And this I'm going to flip the question backwards and be like, well, why would they need a tail? And if they don't need one,
Why waste the tissue? Right. Right. So if you think about a tail as being good for flicking off bugs or something that get on your back, well, they have a really thick hide. So the average mosquito and things isn't really going to bother them too much. Or a tail might be for communicating like we think of in dogs wagging a tail. I'm happy. My tail gets stiff. I might be scared. Well, they have their scent glands to communicate.
So it's just that they don't really have a use for one. And so in an evolutionary sense, the way we think of it is that the energy is better spent being devoted to
other things. Like, I don't need a tractor, so why would I have a tractor? Exactly. But you need answers about body language and behaviors. Rachel Cates, Hannah Gorey, Aurora Arriaga, Aolfi Holmes, Jacqueline Campsey, and Emma, who had the all caps question, why are they so silly? Which dovetails well into Chime Witch's question, do they have their own body language and is it easy to pick up on?
So I'm sure that they do, but no, it's not easy to pick up. So in terms of anything subtle, right? I mean, they have the clicks and the chirps and they will groom each other sometimes and give each other like snorts if they're
if they're angry. But in terms of anything subtle, not that I could tell. But again, they're so thick bodied. They also don't have a lot of flexibility. So I think they're limited a little bit in sort of their repertoire of fancy movements because they're so stalky.
Well, these questions from patrons kind of shocked me. Stephen Moxley says, they look so friendly and kind, but I've heard they can really throw down and fight. And Angela Clark says, I worked at a zoo over the summer, and one secret we kept from the public is that our adult female Cappy was a murderer. She killed two other capybaras that they thought she'd gotten used to. What's up with that? German Sil wants to know, is this a sea otter situation where they look really cute but are actually very evil? See our Lutronology episode about otters to shock everyone.
and to horrify you. But capybaras are not sea otters. They're territorial. They will get into gang wars if two groups from different territories come next to each other too close. But also the males have a dominance hierarchy. So the dominant male will basically beat the bejeebas out of a male that tries to challenge him. And the dominant male will try to be the only one that mates with the females.
by chasing others off. Subordinate males can sometimes be sneaky and sort of catch a female when the dominant is off eating or something like that. So they do get to sneak some fun time in there, but they can get really nasty. I've seen some pretty nasty wounds from them fighting during the night
So during the day, they tend to sleep because it's so hot. So they sleep more during the day. And then at night, they might be more likely to be up moving around and then get into fights and scrapes and things. So yeah, those teeth can do damage. Aaliyah Cefalu, first time question asker.
Knowing that, maybe people will change their minds, but wants to know if you've heard about or been to the Capybara Cafe in Tokyo. A lot of people mentioned this. I did not know there was one. Thoughts? I would love to see it. Oh my goodness, now I want to go. So I have not been, and it really makes me curious because now I just have all kinds of questions. How close can you get? How tame are they? So-
Once they get habituated or used to people being around, there was one even at the ranch that would let people come up and pet her. So once they're convinced that people are safe, then they can be okay with being pet and stuff. So yeah, that could be cool. I can't imagine it smells real good. I don't know why you would want to eat in the same area, but
I'll look at the TripAdvisor reviews and see what they think. Okay, so I looked at videos and reviews and it seems that they will crawl right up on your lap if you're holding a fistful of arugula or something. And as far as the vibe...
The capybara in the videos I saw appear much more low-key than a guy on a Zoom call at Starbucks. It's a very chill environment. In a TikTok I watched, described their fur as feeling like you're petting a coconut or a broom. And a Reddit post about the ethical issues of these individual animal cafes shared their own report that the one they went to
The capybaras looked happy, they could roam freely, and the staff would kindly ask you to wait for them to come up to you in your seat so it was not possible to corner them. I also poked around TripAdvisor, and then I asked my husband, your pod mother, Jared Sleeper, to please read one actual review that deserved to be savored orally.
We arrived and found it to be a wonderful, intimate experience. I had envisioned a petting zoo, but it's really getting your own one-on-one time with the animals. Every step of the process was translated to English, and we were able to purchase fresh greens and sugar cane for a nominal fee over the provided dry food, and they loved it.
Such sweet animals. I think Ms. Ringo, Apple, is still grieving the loss of Ronboy, but Ms. Potato could put her grief aside for yummy food. Well worth the trip. That was excellent. As for the poo factor, I saw videos from some Kabibera cafes that looked very clean and tidy, like the lobby of a nice office building, and others that were hay-strewn with peeling floors.
I'm not a capybara. We all know that. I've never been chased by a jaguar in the wild, but I'm sure that capybaras would rather be in the wild smearing their noses on rocks and having harems and intercourse. So look within yourself.
and do your own research, folks. So I hope that answers your questions, Beth and patrons Austin Broadwater, Natalie Jones, Celeste, not my sister, Rousseau, Emily Liu, Mindy, and Aaliyah Cefalu. Regan Kandara wants to know if they fart a lot. They do. They do. And they fart underwater and you see the bubbles come up.
Oh my God. It's so entertaining. Well, you know, that actually, that goes well with a question we had. So many people wanted to know about spa life. Okay. I'm saying your name's fast, but I'm holding you dear in my heart. Rieka Puttenen, Stella and Claire, Melania Elnicki, Juliette, Jessie, Jordan Baudreau, Frankie, Zed, Shirogane, Mandy Smith, Paige, Nicole, Emma, Rosie, Arlo, Kay, Grace, and first-time question askers, Daphne, Claudia, Ruben Numar, and Carrie Chinn.
In Carrie's words, why do they always seem to be relaxing in a spa? Love that for them, though. And why we see so many videos of captive capybaras just enjoying the spa life. Because it's really hot where they're from. That's as simple as it is. They spend a lot of time in the water because it's freaking hot.
Really? Okay. So then if they were, say, taken to the Cleveland Zoo or if they were taken to the Seattle Zoo, would they still want to bob around in a jacuzzi of their own farts or not? They're still attracted to the water. It's because now it's just part of their genetics that they're attracted to water. I'm sure they wouldn't spend as much time in the water. So there's
Two ideas for why they defecate and urinate in the water. One is just that, well, they're always around the water and that's where it is. And the other is that that hides it from predators. Oh, got it. So that they don't leave like a trail of M&Ms. And particularly with the urine, the smell of urine.
Oh, okay. But they're scent marking glands they're fine with. Yeah. Okay. But scent glands tend to be like pheromones. Those are for the same species. Capybara is talking to capybaras. Okay. As far as I know, other animals do not react to their scent gland. Oh, that's handy, right? Because jaguars have like a very pungent kind of smell that I imagine other animals could smell, right? Yeah. Okay. So apparently it's like secret capybara code.
Oh, big blocky spies. Who knew? Yeah, there you go. Kate Hammond and Tilda Mills wants to know how long they live for. What's their lifespan like? So we think it's about six to seven years in the wild. It's really hard to tell. They haven't been popular enough in zoos for long enough for us to really have a good handle, at least the last time I checked on how long they live in zoos. But yeah, in the wild, we think six to seven years.
Okay. So not real long. Yeah. Not real long. Not as long as I would have hoped for. They live hard and fast. They live hard and fast. Get out. Take a few risks. Live. Is that typical for an animal of that size?
Yeah. If you think about in dogs, like the larger dog breeds tend to not live as long. Yeah. So, yeah, bigger rodent, not live as long. Oh, that's sad. But if they trade in their freedom for fame and they live in a zoo, they'll have an average lifespan of 12 years in captivity. Never hungry, but never out of the spotlight. No.
Meg Kelly asked, very important, very scientific question. Have you heard the Capybara song? And Molly Rupp, Rachel Weisz, Leanne Murray, Lauren Hurlburt, Timmy H., Storm, Deli Dames, and Earl of Grimalkin also needed her thoughts on this earworm of a bop. Others want to know how you feel about the Capybara song that's been on TikTok. I'm unfamiliar, but I'm sure that people have sent that to you.
The Capybara song that's out now is just the lyrics are Capybara, Capybara, Capybara, Capybara. So it's cute, but I'm hoping for something with a little more nuance to it. Right. I might have to write one. I just might have to write one. I think that you're the songwriter that the world needs right now. You could cram a lot of facts in a two minute song. Everybody's looking for a side gig these days, right? That could be my side gig.
Listen, we live in the hellscape of hustle culture, but how is life for cappies? Asked Maria Kay, Oliver Callas, Finn Markson, Deanna Roberson, German Sil, and Tina Robbins. A lot of people want to know, sadly, Scott Sheldon says, Debbie Downer here, but with the destruction of the Amazon, are they okay? I doubt thriving, but okay. The Joyful Spitfire wants to know, how has deforestation impacted the capybara?
So, of course, deforestation is affecting everything. The advantage that the capybara has is they are so versatile. So they are found in forests along rivers because they want that water. So they are in riparian forests, but they're also in open grassland and open savanna. Mm-hmm.
There are pockets where they're doing very well and then pockets where they are not. It's sort of a challenge to really say, so are they threatened or endangered or not? Well, do we want to look at the whole distribution of throughout South America or are we just talking about one region? Because in one region, they might be in trouble, but in another region, they're doing okay. So for right now, their overall numbers, they're not considered threatened at this point.
That's surprising. For some reason, I would think that because they're so weird and because they're on the end of a bell curve in terms of size and adorability, that, of course, they would be threatened. Well, this is where they get lucky because they like the same habitat as cows.
And we have a lot of space for our cows. So Venezuela, Argentina, Brazil, big agricultural culture there. And so the agricultural lands can also support the capybaras. So they happen to share a habitat that we have a vested interest in protecting as well because it feeds our cows. Okay. But some places like these wetlands outside of Buenos Aires in Argentina have been
The habitat is shrinking due to luxury real estate being built. And this one very expensive gated neighborhood saw a rise in wild capybara populations during COVID lockdowns because the quiet streets gave them room to roam and it fostered a new boldness in them.
and they started milling about in empty intersections. They were grazing on lawns and rose bushes. Sometimes they would run eerily fast toward delivery drivers. Capybaras probably loved it, but the residents did not. And ecologists had to remind people in the neighborhood that, hey, this is not an invasion of capybara. You are living on their turf. You're lucky the capybaras let you stay here.
And I haven't looked at any Zillow listings for the area, but personally, I would be stoked to see some real estate photos with a capybara on the deck or in the hot tub. But speaking of ecology, Alice Rubin wanted to know, what ecosystem services do they provide? And do cattle ranchers want to kick the capybaras off the land because they're eating all the grass or are they like, you can come through here, it's fine? The capybaras, because they're trimming the grass back, but they don't take the roots,
They actually help the grass grow better and they're not trampling on it. So the problem with cows is they eat the grass, but then they trample the ground and it's just mud. Well, the capybaras trim the grass without trampling the ground. So they're actually good for it. And is there enough water nearby that they can do their thing? If there isn't, they're not there. Okay. Okay.
So in the managed areas, the water is often managed as well with different dikes and small dams and things to make sure that even in the dry season, there's still water availability, depending on what that land is being managed for, either for cattle ranching or as an eco lodge or as some sort of preserve. Okay. You're not going to have like a duck farm.
farm without a little pond on it. Right, right. Yeah. And why do capybaras take like ducks to water? Capybaras breed in the spring and they're pregnant for about five months. So why? If they were Virgos and Libras, why are they such Pisces? What's up with the water thing?
Shazam X, Valerie Hanley, Morgan Darling, Janie Jones, Bonnie M. Rutherford, Emily P., Tori Baggett, Kay Getzenby, Iso Partimara, Rosenblum, Spunky S, Becky the Sassy, Seagrass Scientist, Paula Tarr, and first-time question askers Rachel A. and Hallie Migley wanted to know what is up with their life aquatic. Do they need really...
big, wide bodies of water to hang in or is anything fine? What would be adjusted is the group size. So like, for instance, in the forests where they're along rivers, they tend to have much smaller groups than in the open savanna where there can be larger bodies of water, like larger in area, but not very deep.
Okay. Which is, you know, fine for them. You know, in the forest, I think there's group sizes of like five to six animals. In the savanna, I had a group that got up to about 90 individuals before it split into two groups. Could you slide into one of those groups unnoticed and just live their vegan poolside lifestyle? Steeljaw Panda asked, how do I apply to become a capybara? Kind of done with being a monkey, TBH. Steeljaw Panda, I get it.
for both of us. Do they nap? Are they just sleeping like cows? They kind of plop down and take a nap? Yeah. They don't sleep all night. They don't sleep all day. They sort of have this just a 24-hour cycle of we nap for a while, we eat for a while, we nap for a while, we eat for a while, and just kind of in little shorter bursts. It sounds like vacation every day. Doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah.
Jessi P., Melissa Poe, and Alice Rubin, great question. They want to know, please explain why pelicans want to try to eat capybaras. You know, you've seen those videos where a pelican is like trying to size up whether or not it could fit a capybara in its pouch. Like, are they just dreamers? Yeah, I would think that, yeah, the babies might be a snack.
Because the babies, especially if the babies are near the water, a pelican might be, that just looks like a big hairy fish. And then they just get ahead of themselves when they go for something bigger.
The pelicans have been talking to the Pope. Yeah, right? Someone asked about Pleistocene-era capybaras that were the size of bison. True? False? Yeah, there was that fossil found. But just one of them? Well, I mean, fossils are hard to find. Right. So if there was one, there were more. We just haven't found very many fossils of them. We just found that one. I say we as though I had anything to do with it. Yeah.
Lisa Scanion Magali, first time question asker, why aren't there 140 pound squirrels? So I could be flip and say, cause there's 140 pound capybaras. There you go. But it has to do with the limitation of habitat. So if you think about up in the North, there are no capybaras because the weather is just, the habitat is just too extreme. You have to be able to have enough food to sustain your body over the winter to
And so a little squirrel body can be sustained over the winter by the nuts that they, you know, scavenge away. But that's not going to do it for a capybara or something that, you know, something that large. And then when you get further south and you get into the nicer weather, then they would have to compete with the capybaras.
It's kind of like niche science. Yeah. And a niche-ology, scuridiology with the lovely Dr. Karen Monroe, which is all about squirrels. What about family ties? Okay, so Chris Moore wanted to know if capybaras cache food like many of their rodent kin. Someone else wanted to know if they cache their food like other rodents, but there's no need to cache grass, right? Correct. Nice. Do they ever come upon...
that are psychoactive? Like there's so much yerba mate down there, right? Yeah, not that we're aware of. But again, they're so chill anyway. How would we know? I don't know. What would a trip in Capybara look like?
I don't know. Did you drink a lot of yerba mate when you were down there at all? No, I didn't actually, because that's more Brazil and Argentina. Okay. More than it was popular where I was. Okay. Where I was, it was the mushrooms that were growing out of the cow poop is what people really wanted me to collect for them. But of course, I was doing a dissertation. So I was like, you guys enjoy those. I've invested way too much. Please see the Mycology episode all about mushrooms of
Of all kinds. But the capybaras aren't munching on them? No, not that we've ever seen, no. Interesting. Amy Martin, first question is, are you familiar with who Post Malone is?
Yes. Amy Martin would like to know why do they look so much like Post Malone? Very specific question. They're just lucky, I guess. Okay, so Cappy Bearers, I looked this up, they have fewer face tattoos and Post Malone has probably zero sticky musk glands. But in this viral tweet a few years ago, it became obvious that the singer-rapper actor's golden brown mustache resembled
Two capybaras meeting mid-lip for a kiss. And if that wasn't intentional, he is the luckiest man in the world. Rachel Gardner was vulnerable and honest and says, I'm irrationally afraid of them. Is there a capybara fact that will help me love them?
Think of them as guinea pigs instead of rats. Okay. All right. And if you're afraid of guinea pigs? Well, then that's a little tougher. But they like popsicles.
Oh, it's hard to be afraid of something that's licking on a popsicle. So maybe look for their more relatable activities. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Oh, Heather Livingston, how fast do their hearts beat? Pretty slow? That's a good question. I'd have to look it up. I'm sure that information is out there somewhere. Yeah. I would expect their heartbeat to be a little slower because of the grass diet. Okay.
Okay. For heartbeat facts, you can please see the 2021 study, Evaluation of a Laryngeal Mask Airway as an Alternative to Ototracheal Intubation for Maintaining Airway Patency During Inhalant Anesthesia Under Spontaneous Ventilation in Capybaras, which seems to mention it's about 67 bees per minute. I don't know what it raises to when they sniff some musk or how low it gets with an orange on their head. Jenna Congdon-
says, has theologist who shares my last name ever given one a good scritch between the ears, life goals right there. But I mostly just wanted to shout out that Jenna Congdon shares your last name and maybe you're related.
That's awesome. I'm like, hi, Jenna. Yeah, you gotta check that out. It's not a very common last name. When we were measuring them and tagging them and stuff, I would give them little belly scratches. And yeah, I mean, if I'm going to palpate their belly for their penis, then, you know, they deserve a little scratch too. Scratch. Scratch.
Pavka34 wants to know, has anyone ever tried to use capybara as beasts of burden? Have they been used for carrying packs or has anyone ever tried to use them as livestock that way? Not that I know of. Because they're territorial, I think that they just wouldn't willingly go very far. They'd be like, this is as far as I walk. Yeah.
Yeah. But it does seem like that ought to be a yes. Fit one with a saddle, you ought to be able to put a nice little pack on them. I'm sure someone has probably to the peril on both sides. Not recommended. So I looked for photographic evidence of someone saddling a capybara and you
Y'all, I found none. So I think that's good news. But I did find a saddlebag made of, quote, distinct capybara suede exterior, which is a bummer. I understand if you need some emotional support after this. Speaking of mental health, Olivia Lester, first time question asker, asked, therapy animals? And yes, according to the 2017 article, Pet Therapy with a Twist, capybara, kinkajou, and owls soothe stressed students.
Capybara have lowered the heart rates of people who need some of their chill. I don't know how the animals like it though, so I guess look for reputable sources of capybara proximity. Or you can just stare at their videos and you can vibe to capybara, capybara music. What?
What about fun for them? How do they kick back? You wanted to know. Rika Putten and longtime listener Spencer. I assume that they run around and have fun and, you know, look for food and everything, but they're just always looking so chill to us, and I just want to know why. And also? Max Chanterelle, first-time question asker, wants to know, what brings them whimsy, or do they appear like they're having fun? Do they play?
The juveniles definitely play. They wrestle and they play and they flop around in the water and they have a good time. Okay, that sounds just delightful to watch. But something's got to suck about your job. Some sucks about every job. But is there a part of your work that's your least favorite?
It's very difficult to study animals without at some point causing them at least a little bit of discomfort. And so when we capture them to ear tag them and stuff, like I said, we don't use a sedative.
because we don't want to have that negative side effect. But, you know, we just stress the little babies out. So that was very stressful for me. And it's also, it's very hot. So we have to be really careful that we don't let them get overheated. So that was absolutely the most stressful for me is the capturing. Would you have to spray them with some water, keep them cooled down? Yeah. And I lost one. And it was just, it was a horrible, horrible day.
The cowboys, the llaneros, they're called, captured like four or five all at once. And as I was processing them, by the time I got to the last one, it had been sitting still in the hot sun for like 30 minutes. And he had a heat stroke. Oh. Yeah. And it was really horrible. And you're out there doing a lot of the field work kind of solo? Yeah.
Emilio Herrera, my collaborator from Universidad Simón Bolívar, he went out with me the first couple days of capturing to make sure that I could communicate. So the area, the savanna is called the Llanos in Venezuela. And so the cowboys that work there are Llaneros. And Llanero Spanish is different than city Spanish.
And so there was a certain amount of training for me to be able to communicate with the guineos to do the capturing. But once I got used to that, then it was me, me and the guineos. I would go sometimes a couple of weeks without speaking to anybody other than the animals.
Did you have to develop ways to make sure you were taking care of yourself too in the heat and in the hard physical work and that kind of isolation away from home? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Luckily, there was electricity. And so I had a computer, you know, there was no internet and there were no phones. So I had a couple of DVDs and a couple of movies I have. I watched the English version and the Spanish version, the French version, the director's commentary. I had to memorize everything.
and read books. And it was hard for me at first because as a graduate student, you're just told, go, go, go, more data, more data, more data. And there were days when I just had to let myself rest and just take a day off and just lay in my hammock and just be. But it was an amazing experience. I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. What were the movies? My sister sent me Cast Away.
Which was hilarious because I was like, this is not helping how I feel. Did she send you a volleyball too? That's hilarious. And then the other one was, I know I had shuck a lot. And then we drew a chessboard on a tablecloth and made a chess set out of an old egg carton.
At different times, I had undergraduate students would come and assist me in the field. And so I would have somebody there with me for a couple months at a time. I had two come down from the U.S. and then a couple from Venezuela and a couple from Peru. So it was also a great way to give undergraduates an opportunity to experience that. And then they also kept me company. Well, what about your favorite thing about your work? I don't know how you're going to pick, but yeah. What's the best thing about being a capybara expert?
I really learned how to just sit and watch them. And I could just sit quietly and have such a peace. I mean, it sounds cliche, but also being there, I saw so much other stuff. A giant anteater carrying a baby. Not a human baby. The birds. Oh, the ibises and the scarlet ibises and storks and ocelots. I mean, just...
Amazing. Wild. The anacondas. Oh, my God. Oh, yeah. They were amazing. And so, yeah. So just all of that experience. Right. And I got to just sit there and watch them. Did you ever have to get any training on what to do if an anaconda is looking at you like lunch?
So the most I got was like tips on shuffling your feet. If you're walking through water, you shuffle your feet so that you don't step on the back of a stingray because then it stings you in the foot. And so that you kick an anaconda instead of stepping on it. And I'm like, oh, that's not comforting at all. That's not reassuring. No, not at all. And then I asked once about, well, what do you do if you get stung by a stingray? And they said, don't get stung.
Okay. All right. That's a strategy. I'm like, oh, okay. I'm willing to bet that Aunt Beth is definitely the most interesting person at any dinner party. And I just, it's been such a privilege to talk to you. I'm so thrilled that you said yes to this.
Well, this was so much fun. I love the opportunity to talk about them. It's so great. Well, capybaras for life. Yes. Yes. Yay. And hydrocarologists. Yes. I'm going to put that on my resume. Yeah. I like it. It's all yours.
So ask chill experts, not chill questions, about chill creatures and adopt a dog or guinea pig. Pretend it's a capybara. You'll have a much easier time with poop, probably more cuddles. But thank you so much, Dr. Congdon, for hanging out, making my dream episode come true, and for killing our hopes of waking up with a capybara snoozing on our pillow, loving us.
It hurts, but we needed the truth. And for more about Beth's charity of choice, you can see the link in the show notes. We also have more research up at aliewar.com slash hydrokaryology. Don't worry about it. It's linked in the show notes. Google ologies, capybara, take you right there.
We also have Smologies. They're shorter G-rated episodes. Those are also linked in the show notes. Patreon.com slash ologies. We've got ologiesmerch.com. Thank you, Aaron Talbert, for admitting the Ologies Podcast Facebook group. Thank you, Aveline Malik and The Wordery for making our professional transcripts. Noelle Dilworth is our scheduling producer. Susan Hale is our managing director and makes sure that we are functional. Kelly Ardoir makes our website and can
And our queen of the grasses is Mercedes Maitland of Maitland Audio, who is our lead editor. Nick Thorburn made the music. And if you stick around until the end of the episode, I tell you a secret. And this week it's that I was eating yogurt and sometimes I let my dog Grammy lick the bowl because she's like yogurt. And I was eating yogurt and I was eating yogurt and I was eating yogurt and I was eating yogurt.
let her lick the spoon and then I forgot that I did that and then I licked the spoon afterward which is disgusting but she's also my daughter so grosser things have happened probably alright bye bye I am covered in capybara slobber
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After a long, hard day, it's the perfect pour you deserve with the company you enjoy. Riuniti Lambrusco. The refreshing, lively, and easy-to-drink Italian wine. Riuniti on Ice, still nice. Imported by Frederick Waldman & Sons Limited, New York, New York. Campaign finance according to EU Reg 2021-2115.
