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You know, once you start accepting $500 and then $1,000 and then dinner and then this and then that, yeah, eventually you are going to start living at her house. I mean, I feel like it's...
Hi, and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney, and in each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. Joining us today is Defector Media's own Kaylin Kaler. Kaylin is my colleague at Defector.com, the site that emotionally and monetarily supports this podcast. Before we hop into this week's story and learn about Kaylin's relationship with gossip, I just wanted to remind you of a couple of things.
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and live shows. Speaking of live shows, we are having our first live show. I'm very nervous. It's June 1st at caveat in New York city. It's at 7 PM. Tickets are $30 in advance and $35 at the door. It's going to be really fun. I just bought glow sticks. We're going to do some gossiping. You're going to love it. Uh, tickets are caveat that's C A V E A T dot N Y C. And we'll put a link for that in the show notes. Um,
Okay, let's go into the episode. Kaylin Kaler worked previously as a recorder at Sports Illustrated and Bleacher Report. And for Defector, she mostly covers the National Football League. She also writes about other stuff like Irish dance, but today we're mostly going to talk about the NFL.
Kaelin, welcome. Kelsey, I am thrilled to be here. I've been counting down the days until normal gossip. Oh my God, what a treat. Well, let's start you off with the classic beginning. What is your relationship to gossip? So I love that I got to listen to the whole first season of this to hear other people's thoughts because...
Literally every time I listened to an episode, I was like, oh my God, I had this new gossip that I need to like take notes. And you know, I sent you like literally a like 1200 word document. As a behind the scenes, Caitlin did send me a bulleted list of her feelings about gossip, which was very helpful to be honest. Yeah.
I just like had so many thoughts. I just wanted to like get them out because I know I won't have enough time to like really get into all of them here. So it just was important for me to have somebody view them.
Good. I've read all of them. I promise. So my main thought is that my career is to gossip and to take other people's gossip and tell other people and give it a bigger platform. Can you like break that down for people who maybe don't know what you do? Yes. So I mainly, as you mentioned, I mostly cover the NFL, which is a really interesting spot to be in because I
Like, you know, let's say I have like three or four phone calls per day. I mean, all of them are men. And so I think a lot of us think like, oh, you can like women are the only people that gossip and like all gossip is coming from like girlfriend groups and that kind of thing. But it is so false because.
All I do is gossip with men, like, all day long. And it's so much fun. Okay, so this is, like, a little bit of a trade question. But what would you consider or do you consider there to be a difference between, like, gossiping and reporting, right? Like, where's the line? Yeah. So, I mean...
Reporting is taking gossip and fact checking it essentially, because we're not going to, I'm never going to report something that I haven't gotten from several people or I haven't found the document that was talked to me about, like somebody gossiped to me about some document. I'm going to go find it. You know, like for example, right now I'm working on a story that'll come out
draft week and I won't get into the major specifics of it, but it came from gossip because I was at a, I was at a college game talking to a personnel executive for an NFL team, a guy, another man. And I asked him, I asked him a question about something that was like totally not related to what the answer was. Just about a different player in the NFL. Okay. And he was like, Oh, well, you know, that college, um,
You know, they never want to tell you anything there. You should look into. Yeah. And he's like, and I was like, really? And he's like, oh, yeah, no, they always try to hide information about their players. And he's like, you need to look into this person, this player next. And I was like, why? And he was like, listen, I can't tell you why. Just you do your work.
Literally, he's like, you do your work. And I was like, yeah, you bet I will do my work. Thank you so much for the leads, sir. So that's just like an example of like a day in the life of how something that's gossip, I'll take it and I'll go actually get the source material.
I want to go back to something you said earlier, which is that people, you know, gossip is kind of branded as like the way that women talk to each other and is something that only women do. And you said that, is it always or almost always in NFL reporting you're talking to men? Almost always. Actually, at the Combine this year, I did gossip. Oh, this is great because that's what I was getting to is I want you to explain to our listeners, one, what the Combine is. Two.
Two, how gossip plays with it. And like what the, it just seemed like all of your stories about the combine were like, I don't know. It's just like a gossip fest we all attend. Literally. Well, okay. So the combine, the scouting combine, the official term is like seven days, like a whole week in Indianapolis every year when there isn't a raging pandemic. So we were back this year, which was awesome. And everybody from all 32 NFL teams was,
gathers there, like coaches, scouts, executives, owners, whatever, you name it, because it's right before free agency. So people are having free agency conversations and it's all of the top draft prospects will be there to do their medical testing and like their skills testing. And so, so this is where you hear like so-and-so ran a whatever time. Exactly. Yeah. This is where like all the 40 yard dashes are run. And it's kind of funny because like
The least important aspect of this week is what the prospects are doing on the field. Okay.
Which is why we're all there. But it's like, you know, nobody cares because the reason, the real reason to be there is that everyone's there. And like, you know, you can just be like walking from one bar to the next and it'll take you an hour and a half to get there because you run into like six different people along the way. Yeah. And like the days are extremely long and I'll always want to like take a nap, but it never happens because I can never make it back to my hotel room.
Because I just keep seeing someone else that I'm like, shit, like, I might not run into this person again. I'm going to have to talk to them, you know? And like, yeah. So I had my defector business cards. It's just like, you know, hand them out like candy. I was at one of the bars. It was literally like 3 a.m. This bar is open till 4. And there was an assistant coach who I handed my business card to. And he shoved it in his mouth immediately and like started gnawing on it. Like he ate the business card.
I thought he was going to swallow it. He took it out. He took it out before it didn't get that far. See, this is funny because I've heard this story one time and I'm like, he swallowed it whole, right? Like I know. Right. Yeah. See, exactly. Yeah. Uh-huh. We could turn it into that. Okay. So you chewed up your business card. You chewed it up and then you took it out. And then I was like, I think I'm going to go home now. I think this is my signal that this is no longer a productive evening for me. Yeah. Um,
So yeah, so that's the combine. And it is just, you know, all sort of, you didn't hear this from me, like your tagline, literally, or like,
you know, you can't say that you got this from me or you need to hear this from a couple other people. And then it can also come from me. Okay. That type of thing. But I freaking love it. I can't get enough of it. Okay. Well, I want to ask you one question about gossip, just about your personal life, since we've talked quite a bit about your work. On the document of thoughts that you gave us, there's one bullet that I will now read for the friends of friends to know. Oh, God.
And it says, one of my friends said to me recently, do you have that one person on Instagram who has you on your close friends list and you don't know why because you aren't close friends? That's me. At this moment, I have 154 close friends. Is that a lot? One, yes. But two, explain yourself. What are you doing? Yeah.
Okay. Okay. So honestly, I didn't know that that was weird until my friend said that to me. And she wasn't even talking about me. She was like talking about somebody else that she is a close friend with. And she's like, why am I this person's close friend? We're not even close. And I was like, and then I had this like, oh shit, that is me. It's me. That's me. Um,
I think my theory is, so when I use my close friends, first of all, I'm very, my personality is very much, I will tell everyone everything. I can keep a secret. I'm capable of that. You can ask my friend, Michaela. She has the evidence. So I am able to keep a secret, but when it comes to like my own life,
I have no secrets about myself because things are just so funny to me or like so like dramatic that I'm just like, I got to tell, like I literally sent like three, something happened this morning where I sent three different group chats, the same like audio voice memo. Like when I get on my close friend's story, I'm only posting about boy drama. So essentially there's no boys there.
Oh, I see. Or if they are boys, they're gay or they're like friend zoned 100%. Is your Instagram public? No, I have two accounts. I have my private personal one and then I have a reporter account because people are always requesting me that I don't know. And I'm like, you don't... I'm not that public. This is even funnier to me that you have...
private like that you have such a big close friend circle with a private Instagram like it would make more sense if you had like a public Instagram where like your sources could follow you and so you were like oh I've segregated like the people I actually know into my green circle zone and
But you're just like, no, no, no. Incredible. I could, I guess I could have done that, but I'm like, I don't need the readers to like see a thirst trap like on my page, you know, like that's not, it's not for them. Can't wait to find out who else in our listenership has 154 people on their close friends account. Somebody, please, somebody tweet at the, please tweet or DM the show. Like I need support. I need to know that I'm not alone.
Let's take a quick break, and when we come back, we'll do the gossip. Hey, it's Alex, and this episode is brought to you by Brooks Running. Let's run there. Stay tuned after the episode for a little peek into my first run in a while.
Are you ready to do some gossip, Kaelin? I'm ready. Okay. Today's story is about a girl named Naomi. She's in her late 20s. She lives in a big Midwest city. And she is working several part-time jobs to support what she actually wants to do, which is stand-up comedy. Do you know this type of person? Yes. I love that she's from a Midwest city. I just already have an opinion. I hope it's Chicago. Okay.
Well, we don't specify. Yeah, we don't say. But we'll pretend like it's Chicago for this show. We'll pretend like it's Chicago. I do know people like that. Not currently, but like in the past. I have known people who have been doing a lot of things to try to get into their true passion. Yeah, it's a real like early 20s problem, I feel like, where you're trying to like sort everything out.
Okay, so she has a bunch of jobs she picks up like here and there, but two of them are consistent. One at the restaurant around the block where she like picks up shifts really easily and one that she hates that's 40 minutes outside of the city by public transit. You can't make faces. They can't see those. Oh, sorry. You have to use your words. I just like, I recoiled because no one should ever be going into the suburbs, first of all. Second.
Second, sorry, sorry to suburban listeners. Don't apologize. I have a friend that had a baby in the suburbs like a year ago and I still haven't met the baby because I'm just like. Baby lives in the suburbs. Okay. Obviously she likes the hosting job at the restaurant more because it's closer, but the pay is worse. She's on her way to practice with her improv troupe when she gets a call from the manager at her restaurant. Bad news, restaurant's shutting down. She's like, fuck. Fuck.
This is bad. She needs money for her rent. She liked that job. She like gets to practice and she's just like distraught, right? She's like, I really want to like focus on my comedy and I can't because I'm just like so worried all the time about paying for my rent. And one of the guys in her improv group, Reggie, is like, you know, I might know of something you can do. I'll introduce you to somebody at the show on Saturday.
And Naomi is like, I really do not want another job. Like, I'm tired. And also this seems like a little low-key shady, so I'm not going to commit to anything up front. Well, what do we know about Reggie? Nothing. He's just like in our improv troupe. Do we like him? I think so. We like him enough. Okay. Right?
So she runs this scenario by her long-term boyfriend. And he's like, be careful. But I guess see what this guy's offering, right? Find out what the job is. So she's like, yeah, I'll meet this person. Saturday comes. Their improv show goes well. The audience was great. All her jokes landed. Naomi is on a high. Reggie's like, excellent. Time to meet someone. Reggie walks her back toward the bar while the next group is performing. And there at a high top is Betty. Betty. Betty.
Betty. Betty is a woman in her mid-60s. She's well put together, but she's not, like, dressed for the venue, right? She's, like, wearing, like, jeans and a, like, formal blouse. She's got her, like, glasses on to read the wine list. Oh, okay. Like, Naomi's looking at her and she's like, oh, she looks, like, a little bit like my mom, right? So immediately Naomi is like, I feel calm now. I am no longer concerned. I feel very at ease. And Reggie's like, I'll let you two talk.
And immediately Betty is like showering her in compliments, right? She's like, you were so good. What stage presence do you have? How long have you done comedy? You're so smart. And Naomi's like, thank you so much. Betty is yelling. She'd be like, she's like, you'd be perfect for my crew. And Naomi's like, what crew? And Betty's like, what? I can't hear you. So they go, they go out the side door so they can like chat. Right.
Naomi pulls out a cigarette and immediately Betty is like, if you don't mind, can you not smoke? I have some health issues. See, I don't know what I'm surprised that Naomi was comforted by Betty's presence because I was getting Karen vibes too.
even before anything was said about her. So you would be, like, skeptical of this woman? Yeah, like, she's giving me, like, weird, like, benefactor, like, creepy sort of, like, benefactor vibes. Like, she's gonna, like...
Pay for your comedy lessons, but only if you never discuss gay people or something. Okay. Okay. So she's asked Naomi to stop smoking. And Naomi's like, oh, sure. Right? Like, I don't care. Like, what's up? What crew? Like, Reggie's told me literally nothing. Like, what are you talking about? And Betty's like, well, I run a performance group for children. And Naomi's like, like clowns? And Betty's like, no, ew, not like clowns.
What Betty runs is what she calls a group of misdirection artists. Misdirection? Naomi is like, so like magicians. And Betty's like, yes, like very, very good magicians. Betty's like, I know it's not exactly comedy, but it pays. It never hurts to be like confident on stage. And this will help you have a little more confidence. Yes.
And I would love to have you on the crew. The next rehearsal is on Tuesday at her house, which is kind of like in the burbs. But Reggie can give her a lift. Betty's like, just think about it. My feet are tired from being at the venue. I'm going home. So Betty like goes away. Do you think that Naomi should go to the misdirection artist practice at Betty's house? Wait, is Reggie in this group? Yes. Yes.
I really just wish I had more information about who Reggie is because like. Who's her improv troupe partner? What else do you need to know? Like, you know, and this, I've never done an improv class because it's too expensive, but I think it would be really, really fun. But I also have had the thought several times of like,
Oh, my God. Like, what if someone truly unfunny was, like, in your group and you just had to be around them all the time? Yeah, that's a nightmare. You know? So what if – I mean, because if Reggie is, like, not someone that we're cool with –
You know, then I would say no, but I'm assuming we're kind of cool with him if it got this far. And they're in like the same, like it's not a class anymore, right? They're in like a performance group. Right. Okay. So he's funny. Exactly. At least a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So I would definitely go, but it's because I do everything for the story. That's like one of my life mottos. I think it's like...
As long as you're not like in danger, which I don't, I don't think this is like a safety risk or a danger risk for her. Um,
So I would go because, like, if anything, it's going to be a great story to tell your friends. And it's going to be great. You're a comic, Naomi. This is going to be great material for your next stand-up act. Well, actually, you probably can't because she'll probably be in the audience. But when you move – You can have it eventually. Yeah, when you go get your Netflix special. Yeah.
You can talk about how hard it was to be where you are now because you had to go through this crazy misdirection artist audition. Exactly. So Naomi has like the exact same thought process as you, which is like one of the key tenants of improv, right? It's like, yes, and. Right? Exactly. And so she's like, yes, I will go. I'll do it.
So Reggie picks her up on Tuesday and she's like, oh my God, it's so nice of you to pick me up and drive me to the suburbs. Like, I really appreciate it. And Reggie's like, I mean, kind of. It's Betty's car that she lets me borrow. So I didn't like really have much of a choice.
Wow. Reggie drives Naomi to this like nice neighborhood. It's like 30 minutes away. Our friend of a friend told us it's not like stupid fancy, but it's like fancier than where Naomi lives with her three roommates, obviously. There's like a big yard, pool, hot tub. The back patio is made of those like really big stones. Yeah.
And there are like lights hung around the perimeter. Naomi's like, this is lovely. In the middle of the patio is a table. The table is filled with food. Not just snacks, but like cheese board, grapes, sliced melon. There is not only wine. There is wine and seltzer and water with lemon.
That's how you know it's good, if they have the fruit in the water. Naomi is like shoveling food into her mouth, right? She's like, rent is next week. I don't have any money. I'm eating everything on this table. She wore an extra large jacket. Exactly. And Reggie is like, dude, slow down. You're not going to have room for dinner. And Naomi's like, dinner? And he's like, yeah, Betty makes dinner for everyone after Tuesday practice to encourage attendance. Yes.
And Naomi is like, hell yeah. Betty is like thrilled to see her. She's kissing her on the cheeks. She's telling her she looks so beautiful. She's like really asking her a lot of questions and making eye contact, right? She's honing like you are just like digging in. And Naomi is like, I feel so welcomed. Turns out she knows two other people who are there because they're like also in the comedy world and have been recruited into this like sleight of hand group by Betty. So she's like, great.
Worst case, I saw three people in the comedy world, which counts as networking, and there's free food. There you go. So they get all set up and ready to practice. And Naomi is like, cool, what are we doing here? Betty's like, you're going to start with cards because you're a baby. You're trying to make the cards like disappear, right? You're doing like little hand card tricks.
I don't know how to do this, so I can't explain it better than that. Naomi also cannot explain it because she's extremely bad at it and, like, cannot figure it out. So all the other comedians are doing, like, sleight of hand really easy. They're, like, making fire appear, right? They're, like, pulling flowers out of nowhere. And Naomi is like, what the fuck? Like, I want to do this, right? Like, this seems cool. It sounds interesting. I have some questions. Like...
What does it pay? We haven't found that out yet, I don't think. Yeah, we'll get there. Okay. I want to know how much it pays. And then, yeah, I wonder, like, how much practice you have to put into to be able to produce fire and to do the types of things that will impress today's ever unimpressed children that are around today. Oh, yeah, you know about this.
Oh, yeah. Uh-huh. 100%. Like, so...
Yeah, very interesting. I mean, as a misdirection artist, you really have your work cut out with you because all those kids probably have a tablet in their pocket. Right. Okay, so let's keep going. The way the group makes money is by like doing these little shows at like malls and libraries and like children's birthday parties and music venues and school assemblies, right? Because parents like need things to do with their kids. This is a pretty popular activity. Yeah.
Naomi like cannot figure out the cards. She's like dropping them all over the place. She has no natural misdirection skills. She's like, no, she's like, I don't think like I don't know if I can do this. But is Betty the teacher? Yeah. OK. And there are like the other people who are in the troop are like better at it. Right. So they can help her. But she's like, I do really want free dinner. So I'm just going to like stay for the whole practice and keep trying.
She gets a little better at it. She stays for dinner. She's like drinking wine. There's a beautiful roast chicken situation. She's like trying to play out whether or not this is worth it. Right. She's like, I'd lose a weeknight. But probably because the shows are for kids, they're pretty early on the weekends. Right. Because it's for kids. Yeah. So then I could probably still do my comedy in the evening. Right.
Right? Like it won't get in the way. Right. So if I can just figure out how to do these like tricks, it's kind of perfect. She's like, I'll think about it. And then just as she's about to leave with Reggie to be like dropped back off at her house, Betty hands her an envelope.
And Betty is like, I know you haven't agreed yet, but I thought I'd give you half of your pay for Saturday's performance up front since Reggie told me that you're having a really hard time. Betty explains that she's had this group for 25 years and that with Naomi involved, she thinks it could be even better than it's ever been. Inside the envelope is $500 cash. Whoa. Hello. Hello.
You know, we do ads for Rocket Money pretty consistently every month. You would think by now I would have canceled every subscription that I don't use. But guess what? I haven't. Rocket Money reminded me recently that I was subscribed to something I didn't even know I was subscribed to. But it's because it was like an annual subscription. I unsubscribed. And by I, I mean Rocket Money unsubscribed for me. Alex, is this relatable to you?
It is so relatable to me. I would like never check my bank account unless I really, really have to because it gives me so much anxiety. And is there a reason that you check your bank account now? Yeah, I get these awesome emails from Rocket Money that are like, hey, FYI, this is how much you spent last week. And it feels like a gentle person holding my hand as I go to my bank account. Oh, yeah.
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Naomi is like, this is perfect. She's like, yes, yes, yes. Like $500 is a fuck ton of money for barely doing anything. She's like, I can't even make the cards disappear. I was going to say, what is she going to do at the show on Saturday? She's going to help. I don't know. She's just going to tell jokes. She's the warm up act. Yeah. I mean, it's useful still. Why not?
Reggie is like, whatever. He's clearly unhappy about having to drive Naomi all the way back to her apartment. But when Betty asks him, he like smiles this like crisp, easy smile. And it's like, of course, I'll take her. No problem. Weird. So Betty has this like money spell over everyone. Yes. This is how Naomi joins the not quite magicians. The next week, though, Reggie cannot pick her up for like the practice.
And so she has to take public transit. The next week, he can't pick her up either. This is annoying. She keeps having to take public transit out there, and it takes like a long time. But for six months, everything is good. She's making money. She gets way better at card tricks by practicing in her room. She's like working with mirrors. She's videotaping herself on her phone from different angles. She's like learning to use new props.
Yeah.
having. It seems like a fun one, like a good life skill to be like, hey, look what I can do. Yeah, great for just some light kleptomania, you know, the ability to make things disappear. So it's like becoming summer now and Betty is about to have some like big surgery because she has all these health problems. And so she's like, I want everyone to come over beforehand and like hang out. So I'm
Not only for everyone like in the group currently, but also for past members. And she's like, my husband, who is not important to the story. Past members. Probably like some famous people. She's like, my husband, who's not important, is getting a keg. Naomi's like, yes. Hell yeah. Naomi shows up and there are a bunch of like decently famous comedians there. Amy Schumer. And Naomi is feeling like really vindicated. Yeah.
She's like, this is the best decision I've ever made. She's like, sure, I've had to like learn how to make some cards disappear. But now I am like really networking. About halfway through the party, Reggie goes like into the house and he disappears upstairs and he comes back wearing a different swimsuit than he was wearing before. I don't think I'm not really sure what to say about that. And Naomi is like, hmm, that's weird.
Do you think that she should have a little chat with Reggie and be nosy? Like, how do you play this observation? So, so you said he went upstairs in the house. Where was Betty? Outside still. Okay. Are we sure? Yes. Okay. We're sure. All right. I was just like, good question. Putting some pieces together that aren't together. Okay.
Um, that is interesting. I probably would make a mental note, like a very in sharpie mental note. Just across your forehead. Yeah. And then I would be like, let's see what happens next.
Because I feel like I don't have enough information to even really know, like, what to ask him. Like, why did you change your swim trunks? Well, you forgot that Naomi has had, like, four beers because there's a keg there. So she immediately goes up to Reggie and is like, what happened to your swimsuit? Why'd you change? And Reggie's like, oh. I respect that. I like that. He's like, well, I spilled, like, some beer on mine. He's like, and I, like, live here.
So I just like went upstairs to change into my other one. I live here. He is living with Betty. He has been living there the whole time. He was like, oh yeah, I got kicked out of my apartment about like seven months ago and it was just convenient to move in here. So I'm like kind of like Betty and her husband's large adult son.
And Naomi, having had four beers, is like, that's fucking weird. Like, it's so weird that you live with Betty. I knew she was like a weird benefactor. Immediately, several other people at this party are like, that's not weird. I lived with Betty when I was in the group. That's like pretty normal, actually. Wow. So this is like a comedian, like halfway house. And Naomi's like, OK, do you think that this is fine that people are living at Betty's house? How do you feel about it?
Do I think it's fine? Look, at this point, I mean, it's a slippery slope, which is exactly what we said at the top of the podcast. Like, you know, once you start accepting $500 and then $1,000 and then dinner and then this and then that, yeah, eventually you are going to start living at her house. I mean, I feel like it's...
I feel like you're Betty's large adult son. Yeah. I feel like it's kind of inevitable. Is it weird? Absolutely. But I feel like as soon as you described her outfit, I was getting creepy benefactor lady from her. Yeah, you pegged it early. Yeah, this is like 100%. This is like exactly. It doesn't surprise me. It's weird, but it doesn't surprise me at all. Okay. Naomi is like, this is weird.
But also this does not affect me at all. It also explains why Reggie will never come pick me up. So like that is making more sense. She's like, but also I'm having a great time at this party. I've like met a lot of people. This is clearly very good for my career. Feeling good.
Things in Naomi's life are going better. She has enough money for a rent. Betty has great snacks. She's still, like, performing with the improv group with Reggie. The snacks are good. And she realizes that she, like, is getting better at stage presence. Right? She's like, oh, like, these skills have helped me improv. Right? So, like, great. She's been in this group for about two years when Reggie leaves and moves to L.A. So Reggie made it. Mm-hmm.
Good for Reggie. This, though, is a problem for Naomi because Reggie was the like cog at the center of her improv group. And so after he leaves, she has to find a new one. Oh, no. And so she starts like looking around for an improv group, but a lot of them practice on Tuesdays. And she can't do that because she has to go practice with her not quite musicians on Tuesday. And when she finally finds one, she's like, I really feel like this group is just not as good as my other one.
And so eventually she tells Betty, like, listen, I just can't do this. Like I'm having to bike to the station and take public transit 45 minutes. And the transit is always late. And like my other job won't pay me if I show up late. So like I am freaking out. I cannot do this anymore. Like sleight of hand is not important enough to me for my whole life to fall apart. And Betty is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay, calm down.
First off, now that Reggie is gone, you can do the administrative work that he was doing for me, like booking shows, invoicing and stuff. And like that, then you can quit your other job. Right. Betty's like, that's one problem solved. She's like, Naomi's like crying, but she's like, okay, that would help. But like, I still have to commute here. And Betty is like, you can move in with me. No, no, no.
It was okay for Naomi. It was okay for other people, other people to live with Betty. It's not okay for you to live with Betty. Naomi is on your side. Naomi is like, no, no, no, no, no. I am not moving into this suburban house. Okay, good. Okay. Absolutely not. She's like, the whole problem with this breakdown is that I need to be doing more shows. If I move to the suburbs, I'm going to be doing fewer shows. So like I need to keep my apartment.
And this is how Naomi ends up with Betty's car. Oh, yes. I support that. Betty's like, Reggie's not driving my old car anymore. You should have it. Naomi's like, great. Do you think she should take this car? Absolutely. Especially if she doesn't have to pay the car insurance, which I'm assuming she doesn't have to. She doesn't have to because she probably only has. Yeah. So she's just paying for gas, I'm assuming. Mm hmm.
Yeah, 100%. Get it. Get that car. Naomi's with you. Naomi's like, this has worked out very well. I've had a breakdown in front of Betty. Now I'm just like doing some stupid administrative work for her for way more money than my other job paid me. And I have a car. Like, win, win, win. Naomi takes the car. From the beginning, the car is a nightmare.
The car is old, so it needs a lot of work. But Betty only wants the work done by her mechanic, which is by her house. So whenever there's an issue, Naomi has to drive the car all the way to that mechanic and then find her way home. This is a problem because of the mechanic, but also because Naomi has what she called absolutely awful car luck issues.
It's not that she's a bad driver, but in the past two years, she got into three accidents. Oh, no. Well, you know, this is information I could have used earlier. Before you told her to take the car. Yeah. Like, that would have been helpful to know, Naomi. We would have dropped that in last second. Yeah.
Okay, so this is hard because like one, she has to take the car every time she gets into one of these accidents to the mechanic that's far away. But two, because it's Betty and her husband's car, she also has to like call them and confess, which is like that terrible like high school feeling of like I've disappointed you and I'm an adult. To make matters worse, between the second and third accidents, Naomi and her boyfriend break up.
It like was just not working. Right. And like sometimes things don't work. We're happy for her. We're happy for her. But she's been in this like not quite magician group for two and a half years. She's like a senior member. She's doing all the sleight of hand tricks with fire that she like envied early on. She's like, I should be happy, shouldn't I? But she's looking at the people who came onto the comedy scene at like the same time that she did. And they're starting to get bigger and bigger gigs. Yes.
Like they're starting to headline at small shows, but still. And were they in the group? No. And Naomi is like, I'm still an opening act. And because I'm like an opening act, that means I go on earlier. And because I'm still in the Not Quite Magicians, I like keep having to turn a few gigs down. And she's like, I have to do something about this. Like I cannot become a professional Not Quite Magician. That is not my goal. Yeah.
So she calls her agent and she's like, I've got a full 60 minute set. It's good. I've been honing it in secret for six months. Can you get me a good headlining gig? And like in like three months and a bunch of events to follow up. This is a lie. She does not have a set. She has not been honing it. Confident. Her agent is like, I'll try. Agent calls her back a few days later. She's like, I did it. Now though, Naomi needs a set. So she's like working harder than ever.
She like does all of these lead up events. She's like going to clubs early to try out little sections. She's like doing all this shit. Two weeks before her like big gig, she gets into the third car accident. She's so overwhelmed. No!
She's like on the phone with her college friend Jake crying. Jake's like, you're losing it, hon. So Jake comes for the whole week before the show. Good, good. That's a good friend. It is. The car comes back from the shop and Jake is like running errands for her, like helping her run sections of the set again, going to get them food and bringing it back, right? He's just like the best friend in the world. But while Jake is there, he's pointing out a lot of stuff.
He calls her out. He's like, why are you practicing your sleight of hand this week? He's like, why do you need to do this? You have this big comedy show. Like, stop. And Naomi's like, yeah, but I still need to be good at this. And Jake's like, why? The kids don't care. He's like very critical of Betty. And Naomi is like a little jarred by this. But Jake is like, isn't it weird that you use her car? Isn't it weird that you are practicing on your own time for a gig you don't want?
Wow, Jake, coming in with the harsh truth. How are you feeling? I'm feeling like Jake is like a breath of fresh air. He is the outsider that we needed to come in and shake things up. It's almost like it's turned into this abusive relationship in a way with Betty. Yeah.
Because it all seems like it was going to help her and be so great. And then it actually kind of took over her life in a destructive way. Yeah. So, yeah. But that can be very hard to see on the inside. So Jake is...
Doing the Lord's work here. And Naomi is like reeling from this, right? Because she like has not put those things together. So as he's like saying these things, she's like, oh shit. Like, yeah. Why am I planning to go to two practices in a show this week when I have my own show to prepare for?
She's like, I'm going to call out. And Jake is like, yes, obviously you should call out of your magician practice in order to practice for your comedy show, you dumb baby. He's like, I'll buy you dinner if you're going to dinner. Exactly. And Naomi's like, fine.
So she does it. She calls out of her like little practices. She calls out of the show. She does her big set and it goes great. Everyone laughs. Her agent is very proud of her. She gets like a nice write up on some blogs. She's like, finally, I'm gaining momentum. That's amazing how that correlated with one week off. She drops Jake off at the airport and she's like, I'm so tired. I feel like I could collapse.
So she's like, you know what? Jake made me think about a lot of things. I'm going to call out of practice on Tuesday. Not going to go. Right. She's like, I'm too tired. But Betty is like texting her all the time and like guilt tripping her. She's like, why aren't you here? Like you keep calling out. Like we keep losing gigs because we don't have enough people. And like Naomi does feel bad. She's like, I love this group and it's like been really good to me. And like, I don't want to hurt them.
So the next week when she feels recovered, obviously she drives Betty's car up to Betty's house for practice. Betty like immediately corners her. She is furious. She is like steam coming out of her ears mad. She grabs Naomi by the elbow and drags her over by the hot tub. And Naomi is like, ow. Betty pulls out a piece of paper and starts waving it around. The piece of paper is a red light violation letter from the city. Do you know what these are? Oh my God.
Yeah, I've actually never gotten one. Knock on wood. Okay, so you get one for running a red light, right? Yeah, you have to pay a ticket, right? Yeah. Yeah. Naomi is like, this is fine. She's like, how much is it? And Betty's like, it's $100. And Naomi's like, just take it out of my pay for this week. Like, that's fine. I'll just pay it. And Betty's like, no, it's not fine.
Like, you know how sick I am. You know that I have to have these surgeries and I'm not very mobile. You know that I have to drive to see my grandkids, don't you? And Naomi is like, yeah. And Betty is like, this ticket could keep me from my whole life. Apparently, Betty has so many points against her license that getting this red light ticket could get her license revoked. Oh, my God.
So because it's tied to the car, not the driver. Because it's a camera. Exactly. Oh, my God. Wow. Betty is just in like a blind tizzy. Naomi is like on the verge of tears because she's like, I really am not trying to cause a problem here. And also I'm so tired from doing my show. And like, I don't I'm just feeling really overwhelmed. And Betty is like still just feeling crazy. And she's like, here's what we're going to do. We're going to go to the courthouse.
And you are going to tell them that you were driving. Does this feel good to you? How are you feeling? Well, I'd rather not be involved in this entire song. But we're kind of stuck at this point. So, I mean, I don't know. I mean, I might say to Betty, like,
This is like the risk that you run when you let someone else drive your car. Like, I don't have a car and I'm trying to not have a car for like as long as I humanly cannot have a car because it's just such a... Everything involved with cars is just a pain in the ass, including letting other people drive your car because you're just assuming the risk. So I might...
try to put that in like nice terms to her and be like, I'm actually not available on Saturday or whatever day, whatever day she's trying to go to the courthouse. I'd be like, actually I can't. And she actually, Betty sounds like the type of person that you actually just have to start ghosting her because she's never going to like let you win an argument or let you like get out of a conversation. So you just have to like change your number. I think she really needs to change her number. Yeah.
Like, seriously, like change your number, get a different phone, whatever you have to do so that you can like never have to contact this woman again. You just have to break all the ties. This is not what Naomi does. Naomi is like, yes, of course I will go to the courthouse and tell them that I was the one driving. I obviously was. Just like text me the information. I'll go. I'm happy to. So Betty texts her the information.
And Naomi is looking at the red light violation, right? And she realizes that the week of the ticket was the week that Jake had been in town with her car. So she hadn't been driving at all that week. Oh, no. Jake had been doing all her errands.
So she's like, I can't go to the courthouse and tell them it was me because I would be technically perjuring myself. And they have the photo. But also, I don't want to like put this on to Jake, who did this huge favor for me in coming to help and also who hates Betty and certainly will not sympathize with this situation. What do you think Naomi should do? This is...
Really tough. Betty is, like, still texting her to be like, we need to arrange a date to go to the courthouse. Jake doesn't even live there. So he'd have to, like, call them. Oh, my gosh. Again, ghost. Just ghost. Just ghost.
Just get the hell out. I do like that you're like two methods for this story where like, well, you go for the story, but then if things get complicated, you just fucking bail. Like, get out. Bail. I mean, there really is no, there's no good solution. I mean, I would probably rather call Jake, just deal with his wrath again to try to solve this than to perjure myself again.
Yeah, that's a bad decision. That's not the solution. So I would probably just call Jake and be like, look, I'm so sorry. Please, I know you're going to hate me. And can I mail you a cake or a cookie cake that says I'm sorry? Whatever. Whatever.
and see if he'll call the courthouse. Yeah, this is exactly what Naomi does. She's like, I will send you whatever you want. Like if the courthouse says you have to come, I will like pay for you to come like for your gas. And like, I'm so sorry. And Jake, because he's a good friend is like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. I got a ticket in Betty's car. Like my bad. I did not intend to run a red light. I could let, I'll call the courthouse or I can like come back these dates.
Naomi's like, great. Thank you. She texts Betty the dates. She's like, I'm feeling so relieved. Everything's going to be fine. But then like two hours later, she gets a call from Jake. As she answers the phone, Jake is like already yelling. He is like all worked up. He is like, I was not driving the car. Betty was. Knew it. Knew it. I knew this would happen.
And he's like, I have the text to prove it. How? Jake is like, cool. So this paper you sent me, it says that the red light ticket was on Thursday at 2.30. Okay. Thursday afternoon. Remember, Naomi got in a big wreck right before Jake arrived. Yep. And the car had to go to the mechanic up by Betty's house whenever it's broken, right? So the car had been at the mechanic when Jake arrived. And Naomi had been at the venue, like, prepping, right?
And instead of making Jake go get the car from the mechanic, Naomi had him go to her house and Betty agreed to drive the car to Jake.
Because Naomi is like trying to people please literally everyone around her at this point. She was sending Jake like 500 texts, which Jake now sent back to her at 145. She sent Betty is driving the car. She'll be here at this time. At 220, she sent Betty is on the way. At 255, she sent Betty just dropped off the car. We got her. We got her. We got the receipts, the timestamps.
She's going down. So between those two texts, clearly, is the exact timestamp of this red light ticket. Amazing. Amazing. So after all of that shaming and like driving home her health and her grandkids and all this shit, Betty is the one who earned these points. It was her the whole time. And Naomi has already had $100 taken out of her paycheck to pay for it. What would you like to do here?
Well, now I want to have a confrontation because you're no longer ghosting. No, I like a confrontation when, you know, you have, you know, you have the evidence. Yeah. I don't want to do it in person though, because I think Betty would somehow find a way to like manipulate it. So I would just call her and be like,
Get your messages out. I'm sending you screenshots of when you were in this car, like just so you can't argue with me. And I'm done. This relationship is over. Thank you for your help. But for my own sanity and the sake of my career, my budding comedy career, I need to remove myself from this toxic employee boss relationship. And no, I will not move into your house ever.
Period. That's what I would do. Naomi is like, I have to talk to her.
But she's like, I'll talk to her in person. Right? I'm going anywhere for Tuesday practice. I might as well talk to her then. You're still going to Tuesday practice? But she's like really nervous, right? Because Betty has like essentially funded three years of her life and also like was very like emotionally supportive, introduced her to all of these people. Their lives are like woven together. Her car is Betty's car. Yeah.
The show went well, but it did not go pay your rent well, right? Which is like a different level of well. Betty is still by far her main source of income. And the not quite magicians are also her friends. She should call Reggie too. Like I would call Reggie, give him all this gossip and be like, did she ever do this to you? Because if he lived in her house and drove her car for that long, it must have happened to him. That's a good idea. She did not do that. But she's like, I want my $100. Yeah.
Betty has my $100. I'm going to talk to her. So Naomi goes to the practice. She's like shaking the drive there, right? I don't think that's worth $100. Me either, but... Just get out. I'm not Naomi. She like arranges for someone to come get her in case like Betty takes the car away. She like pulls in the driveway and is so tense she could like burst into tears, right? She's just like so nervous. She goes into the house and is like, Betty, can I talk to you? And Betty's like, sure, hon, of course.
So they go over and they talk and Naomi's like, I'm so sorry, but I was not driving when the ticket was given. So like, I can't tell them that I was because that would be perjuring myself. And I don't want to do that. And it seems like actually you got the ticket. And so then she shows Betty the timestamps on her phone of the text. And Betty is like, oh, okay, I guess that takes care of that. I'll get your cash back. And she goes and gets the cash and hands it to her. That was...
Way easier. There's a, this, I feel like this isn't over. Naomi is like, what the fuck? Like you put me through an emotional gauntlet. Was that like a test, like on purpose? I have no idea. But Naomi is like you. Psychological warfare. Naomi is like you, she should have apologized to me. Right? Like she doesn't say this to her, but she's like, she was like really laying into me for something that she did. Yeah.
Like, she should have apologized to me. I've been to, like, hell and back trying to keep this from being a big deal for her. I dealt with all of this stuff, and she hasn't done anything to, like, say I'm sorry. And practice isn't over. Do you stay? Well, I, you know, going back to what I said earlier of ghost her, I forgot we still had the car. So you did need to bring the car back, obviously. But you could have brought the car back and just not gone inside and just left. That's what I would have done. So I think...
I think you got your $100. But while you had that conversation, she should have said, I'm quitting. Like, I'm done. This has been nice. I appreciate it. I got to move on. So I would, yes, I would leave. I would not stay. It's not productive anymore. You got what you came for. Now it's time to go. You got your $100. Get your friend to pick you up. Make the call. Do you think this is what Naomi does? No. No.
She's certainly staying because for some reason she can't quit this toxic group. So she stays for the rest of the practice. And on the way home, she's like, you know, I'm just feeling like really weird about this interaction. And the only person who has been like lucid that I have talked to is Jake. So I'm going to call Jake on speakerphone in the car and tell him what happened.
Jake, as you can imagine, is so angry. He's like asking for clarification, right? He's making her walk through like, what is her body language like? What is she saying? Like, where did the cash come from? Right. Jake has like all of these follow up questions. And she's like, yeah, I just like I'm driving back to my apartment now and I'm just feeling really bad about this. And like we have the show on Saturday. And Jake is like my friend. Right.
I do not know how to tell you this, but the Not Quite Magicians is a cult. This is not a good place. I do not understand how this woman has taken over your life, but you do not want to be a magician. You are wasting your time. It is like a cult or like a multi-level marketing scheme, but they're not selling anything. It's so strange. And he's like, you need to get the fuck out of there. Yeah. Yeah.
And Naomi is like, for the first time, it like clicks into vision. Right? The first time. She's like, oh my God, I've spent three years of my life doing not quite magic instead of my comedy. And she turns the car around and she leaves the car in Betty's driveway with the keys on the hood. And she never texts her back again. And she is free. Finally. Finally.
She took our advice just a few years late. A few weeks late. What's your takeaway here? Who do you think is the villain? Obviously, Betty is the villain. Why? Are her intentions purposely evil? Maybe not.
But she is like taking advantage of people that are vulnerable, which actually is the definition. You know, I actually know a lot about cults and there isn't really a strict definition of cult. It's like a sort of a loose term. And like that word has fallen out of favor with academics. It's like because it means nothing now. Yeah. So but there are like some defining traits of of what like a cult leader is and what
You know, you take advantage of people who are in vulnerable situations and then threaten them if they want to leave. And the longer they stay in, the less friends that they have remaining outside because they've lost their relationships because you became their relationship. So that's what they want to do. They want to cut you off from the outside world.
Yes. I think like to me, the other thing about this is that like if you are the kind of person with a lot of money that wants to like fund young people's goals, I think that that is valid and good. I think you should give away your money to help other people do things that don't pay well. However, I think the minute those things have like contingencies where it's like you can have a thousand dollars for doing this.
That's not that's an employer. You're not a benefactor anymore. And when you're taking up that much time. Exactly. If you just want to give like people cash to do whatever they want with. Sure.
She could do like a scholarship. Or even just hand comedians cash. Tip them. You could just tip them. Like nobody is going to be like, oh, you are giving me money for my art. No, thank you. Also, like, I mean, did she make money off of this?
magic yes like but was it like a like did she need to have this i don't think betty need to have this magic business no because the friend of a friend who called this in said that like this was like a passion project right like betty's husband made the money that they needed so okay exactly yeah she did not need it that is just unnecessary just tip them would you like to hear a final update
Yeah, please. Okay, so Betty texted her like a million times. I'm sure. Naomi did not respond to any of them. Did she block her? She just ghosted full ghost. I love that. Now it's been like a couple of years. Naomi is doing much better. Her comedy career is going very well. Oh my god. Betty is still running her not quite magic cult.
but Naomi overheard some young comedians talking about it recently and was like no no no no no no do not do that I lost three years of my life there so like she has moved on good she is so much better and she's warning the next generation she is warning the next generation of young Midwestern comics oh my god how
How are you feeling at the end of our gossip tale? Did you have fun? That was really fun. I really enjoyed that. And I'm just, I'm happy for Naomi. And hopefully someday I'll see her in a show and like, I won't know it's her, but then I'll hear her start talking about like a magician cult. And you'll be like, Naomi! There you are, Naomi. You got this, girl. Kaylin, thank you.
Thank you so much for coming on to Normal Gossip. It was a joy to have you. Kelsey, thank you for having me and thank you for releasing this brilliant idea into the world. Oh, you're welcome. Thank you.
Thank you so much for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, please email us at normalgossip at defector.com or you can leave us a voicemail. That number is 2679-GOSSIP. Please remember that the voicemail box will cut you off after three minutes. So just keep calling back.
If you love this podcast and want to support us, please become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow me on all social media at at McKinney Kelsey. This podcast was produced by Alex Sujan Laughlin. Defectors Projects Editor is Justin Ellis. Our Editor-in-Chief is Tom Ley. Thank you to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company. I'm Kelsey McKinney, and remember, you did not hear this from me.
Hey, it's Alex, and this episode is brought to you by Brooks Running. Let's run there. Okay, just finished a run. I recently restarted my Couch to 5K program. I did this last year. Basically, it like has you warm up and then walk for like a minute and then run for like a minute. And over time, it increases the amount of time that you're running and decreases the amount of time you're walking. It's a great way to like
slowly build up your tolerance and your cardio health. So it was definitely humbling to start back at like week one, day one. I've been like dealing with a lot of health things this year. And the interesting thing about a lot of my health conditions is that they are exacerbated by stress. I get so frustrated because I'm like,
How am I supposed to manage my stress? Like, I am better than I was in my 20s. Like, what am I supposed to do that's different? But if I'm being honest with myself, I do exercise a lot. But I don't do a ton of, like, high-impact cardio. You know, I walk a lot, which is great. Walking is so awesome. But I also think there's something to...
pushing yourself a little bit like getting a little bit out of breath um back when i was much more of a runner i used to feel like by the time i started sweating on a run i was like sweating my stress out that's like what it felt like um so i was like you know what why don't we just try again so i feel good i'm proud of myself and we're just gonna keep going
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