94. Robert Hansen - The Butcher Baker
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soft lounge from Skims. The entire collection is so good. And then let them know Murder With My Husband sent you. Okay, we love you. Bye. Hey everybody, welcome back to our podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland. And I'm Garrett Moreland. And he's the husband. And I'm the husband. If my voice sounds a little different, it's because I'm running a bit of a cold, so I think I sound a little congested, but I'm doing all right. Poor Peyton. She's sick. Don't let her fool you. She's just trying to be tough.

Well, it's the new year. It is a new year. I can't believe it's 2022. I know. It literally feels like it's still 2019. It's crazy. But I'm going to try to talk a little bit right now so Peyton can save her voice. So I'll just hop into my own 10 seconds today.

Basically, well, we went to a Chargers. Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. A Chargers-Broncos game. It was super fun. I'm a Chargers fan. Peyton's a Broncos fan. So that was kind of interesting. But we still love each other. And it was a really good game. Well, the Chargers won. They did. But it was still a fun game. It was really fun. And I tried the whole time to get on the Jumbotron thing, but they didn't want me up there. They didn't know Murder With My Husband was there. That's what the issue was. They didn't want me up there.

They knew it was Murder With My Husband. Game over. Game over. We would have been on the whole time. The whole time. Also, before we start, just a reminder, Patreon is ad free. We're actually going to be spicing up, changing. I don't know if that's the right word. Patreon a little bit.

I'm not going to exactly say what we're doing yet, but come February, we're going to change things a little bit for the good. It's going to be good changes. So we're super excited for that. I'm actually just really pumped that we reached a point where we're able to, you know, really put all this effort into Patreon and do this, the things we're planning. Yeah, we're super excited. Also, stay tuned for merch.

Oh yeah, we got some samples. We just finished new designs on some of the merch and I think everybody's going to like it. We're excited. It's not this. It's not this, by the way. Poor Peyton. This was just a gift I got given. Yeah. All right, well let's just hop right into this. All right, our case sources for this week are The Butcher Baker, Mind of a Monster episode, Alaska.gov, AllThat'sInteresting.com, Murderpedia.org, and Oxygen.com. All right.

Our case this week begins on Kinnick River, which is about 40 miles north of Anchorage, Alaska. If you don't know, Alaska is a very big place with not as many people. There's a lot of land out there in Alaska. A lot of people live there for the wildlife, the outdoors, and hunting and fishing, which is extremely popular.

The date is September 12th, 1982 and John Daly, an officer with the Anchorage Police Department, decided that he and a friend would enjoy their day off in Anchorage by going moose hunting on the Kinnick River. This was a very popular hunting spot and I mean this is literally why John lives in Alaska, so he can do things like this on his day off. As John and his friend were walking along the river, they noticed a depression in the ground up ahead.

It looked unnatural, like something had happened to the ground, so they continued on to check it out.

And as they got closer, John noticed something sticking out of the ground. Clothes, maybe? He bent down and inspected it closer. He was right. It was a piece of denim sticking out of the ground. It was a flap of denim, so John reached down and tugged it to figure out what the crap was going on. But when he grabbed the piece of denim and lifted it up, he quickly realized it wasn't just a shirt or jeans. Underneath this flap and under his hand, John was staring at skin.

Something or someone was in the depression in the ground. John, a cop himself, immediately called the state troopers and they began digging up the ground. With each shovel of dirt removed, the smell of decomposition grew stronger and stronger. The atmosphere was quiet as the team worked to uncover what they all knew was under the dirt. After clearing the area, a Caucasian female, fully clothed, laid in the hole, murdered.

There was an ace bandage wrapped around her head completely, similar to like a mummy. What the heck? Like wrapped all the way around? Yep. Okay. And an ace bandage, if you don't know, is like a nude bandage that you would wrap around your ankle or your wrist. If it was her, it's very long. It's just like a cloth that you wrap around over and over again. But this was wrapped all the way around this girl's head. Holy crap.

Interesting. So I'm just kind of assuming that someone shot her, obviously from far away.

don't know why yet but i just have ideas in my head but we'll keep going and see kind of where that plays out so about a month later in october of 1982 police were finally able to identify the body as 24 year old sherry morrow now in order for me to explain how this happened i have to tell you about the atmosphere going on during the 80s in anchorage alaska anchorage was actually in the middle of an oil boom

In 1982, people were flooding the city from other states to take advantage of the new oil money and job opportunities that were found there. And because of that, downtown Anchorage became a little more wild, a little more dangerous, a party city, if you will. Men now roamed the streets at night looking for a way to spend their night before going back to work in the morning in the oil fields. You know, I know Alaska is super pretty and beautiful. We've never been there.

But every time I think of Alaska, I think of the show where they go and do all the like digging for gold, looking for gold, like on Discovery Channel. Oh, okay. It's like super big. I don't know. It's the first thing that comes to my mind. Anyways. So Leland Hell, who co-authored the book Butcher Baker about this case, explains that at this time, 4th Avenue Street downtown was full of dance clubs and massage parlors.

all opened for the new crowd that had moved into Anchorage. The sausage parlors. Yes. There were many different clubs along this street where dancers and sex workers could work along 4th Avenue. The clubs were full of drugs and alcohol, and I would definitely say that downtown Anchorage came alive at midnight.

And according to Leyland Hale, there was a tolerance to this kind of lifestyle here that wasn't everywhere else in the United States at this time. Alaska was just far enough away, just out there enough for this to kind of be accepted and okay. So 24 year old Sherry Morrow was recruited to Alaska to be a dancer. She was approached and told that they would fly her there, give her a place to stay, and all she had to do was dance in these new clubs.

But like most of the girls who arrived, the place she was staying was not nice. And as she lived for free and danced for these people, debt incurred somehow. Sherry no longer had free will to leave because she was told that she now owed these people who gave her this opportunity. So it was definitely like a ring. This was not legal. What was happening was not okay. It was not fair to these girls.

Sherry lived with another dancer at the time of her murder, and that dancer remembers the last time she saw Sherry pretty vividly. The night before Sherry disappeared, they were working at the club when a man approached her roommate and asked if she wanted to go on a real date, like get out of the club, go on a real date tomorrow. Okay.

She politely declined, but the man persisted, explaining that he had a small plane that he could fly and they could go anywhere. Now, I do want to say here, like, having a plane seems crazy, but here in Anchorage at this time, a lot of people had small prop planes that they would take to go hunting and stuff. It's like having a car almost. Yeah, so it wasn't that weird for someone to have a plane. So what do you mean by she couldn't leave? Like, if she tried leaving, would they kill her or...

Well, they just said, you owe us money, so you can't leave. And you have to keep in mind, she's 24. She's young. She has no family in Anchorage. She left the states. I mean, it's still the states, but she left the states to go to Alaska. So it's not, I mean, and she has any money that she's making, they're taking. And I guess she can't just drive to another state, right? She's in Alaska. She's in a really tough situation. Okay.

But Sherry's roommate was not interested in any work outside of the club. So she declined. And as the night wrapped up together, her and Sherry headed home. The next morning, Sherry woke up and explained to her roommate that she had a date that day. A man with a plane who seemed nice and wanted to take her out.

Her roommate explained how, okay, you know, this man had actually asked her first, but she had had a bad feeling about it. Sherry listened, but insisted that everything was fine. The man had seemed nice to her and she was kind of hoping for something outside of dancing at the club and maybe this was her answer. So she was going to go meet him soon to go on this date.

She asked her roommate to actually walk her down the road where she had agreed to meet this man, and her roommate agreed, and together they walked, said their goodbyes, and her roommate made her way back home. She never saw Sherry again. Oh, my gosh. So, okay. Until that October when she saw her picture in the newspaper after police had identified her body, the body that was found on Kinnick River with the bandage wrapped around her head. How long was she gone from the time she left the date?

until they found her. She was murdered, correct? Well, we don't know until she was murdered, but until they found her about a month or so. Oh, wow. Long time. Okay. It's pretty safe to say the Anchorage police were actively working this case, but once they discovered that Sherry was a dancer, they took her murder a little less seriously. She had no family nearby, like we were talking about. She was a very vulnerable victim, probably targeted on purpose. So

Sadly, we know this happens often and honestly, like this still happens today, although there has been movement in recent years on this issue with police taking sex workers and minorities murders seriously. But this is happening right now in this story. With most police lessening up on the case, there was one officer who refused to turn a blind eye.

Maxine Farrell was one of the first two women who worked in the Anchorage Police Department. Oh, that's awesome. And in the 80s, she worked in the Homicide Unit. She had no locker room at the department, no office because she was a woman. But when she found out that Sherry Morrow was the victim and who she was, she pled with the department to listen to her. Because Maxine believed that Sherry Morrow was not the first victim in this investigation.

She actually believed that they had a serial killer on their hands. Okay. So two years earlier, on July 17th, 1980, the Anchorage Police Department got a call and they were dispatched out to Eklutna, which is roughly 28 miles north of Anchorage. Some electrical workers were in the area working at the access place for them when they came across skeletal remains. Okay.

Maxine Farrell was sent out to the scene and assigned the case. Upon first glance, she suspected the victim was a local sex worker or dancer based upon the jewelry and clothing that was found with the remains. Skeletal remains. That would be so crazy coming across that. I know. The Jane Doe had no ID on them and nobody had reported anyone missing as of recent.

Maxine didn't find this odd though. A lot of the workers had no family and they could have been new to the area like we were talking about. The cause of death was determined to be a stab wound. Because they had the skeletal remains, police decided to reconstruct the face of what they thought this female would look like. Once they had it, Maxine released the picture everywhere that she could think of.

But no one came back with, oh, I know this woman. Like, this is who we think she is. And to this day, the identity of Jane Doe Eklutna remains unknown.

But it was while Maxine was looking for the identity and the killer of that first victim that the Anchorage Police Department received a missing persons report. 24-year-old Roxanne Easland, a sex worker from Anchorage. Although Roxanne was not the victim from Eklutna, she definitely matched the profile of the victim. And every so often, more missing person reports would come into the department. Young women in their 20s who were working as sex workers or dancers were...

were missing this reminds me of the case in canada right what was that called again um the pig farmer the python oh yeah robert picton the pig farmer episode it is very similar like in canada they were noticing all of these sex workers going missing and so messed up how yeah they know that they're vulnerable yes exactly right and it doesn't help that police don't really take it seriously either

So Maxine is noticing this. They just found the skeletal remains, and now they have more missing persons coming in that kind of match the same description as the skeletal remains.

And she's like, something's going on. Like this doesn't make sense that all these women in their 20s are going missing. But they never found another body for her to prove her theory. Like only women were going missing. The only body they had at that point was the skeletal remains. But now fast forward two years, Maxine is now staring into the eyes of Sherry Morrow's case and she just knows. So she tells the department, listen,

We have a serial killer who is targeting local dancers and sex workers. We now have another body to prove it. And no one believes her.

Maxine was told by anyone who listened that these women disappeared all the time and they probably just moved on to a new city and they weren't the department's problem. But Maxine insists she knows someone is targeting these women so despite orders and chain of command she starts working the cases alone. The first thing Maxine does after her theory is turned down is gather all of the missing person reports that match the victim profile.

women under 30 who were working in the area and randomly disappeared one day. Once she gathers those names, she begins getting a hold of friends and family to figure out who each girl was, what they commonly wore, jewelry they owned, every detail she could find. And after narrowing all of this down, Maxine had discovered 10 women in the area who fit the profile. So 10 women have gone missing within how long?

Within two years. Within two years, 10 women have been missing. Well, and there's been more women missing, but after talking to friends and family. Oh, like those ones have moved on somewhere else. Maybe. So she figures these 10 really fit the profile, really just went missing out of the blue. And we don't exactly know where they are. Right.

So when Maxine finally put together this official list with all the details they knew of these women, she once again took it to her superiors and tried to convince them. Look, she said, these are all of the missing women in the area who match the profile. All of them have gone missing in the last two years. It has to be a serial killer.

But her superiors and fellow comrades laughed in her face again and told her she was wrong, that she was stepping outside of her authority. Remember, she's one of two women in this department.

And can I just say here that like this sucks because I promise you that this had less to do with her actual theory and more to do with the fact that she was one, a woman, like a minority and two, ranked lower than the men that she was going up to to like produce this evidence to. But it's a freaking good theory. - Yeah, 100%. - 10 women have gone missing that all live a similar lifestyle. - That's so messed up.

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So by 1983, Maxine is still secretly working her theory. When on September 28th, two hunters were walking about a mile downstream from where Sherry Mara was found when they stumbled upon another body. She was young, Caucasian, and had a bullet hole through her heart. They found another .223 caliber shell casing near the body. Holy crap, so same exact scenario. A mile away from where she was found. That's insane.

it was at this point that not only was maxine sure that they had a serial killer but the whole city of anchorage started to throw the idea around too i mean they were found a mile away from each other with the exact same cause of death and the same caliber bullets with the panic spreading through the city the sergeant decided to talk to maxine again and hear out her theory someone is literally hunting these women with a rifle like

Like that's, that's what's happening. Yeah. So it was after talking to Maxine that the sergeant decided it was final. They would put together a task force to work the theory officially to please the public. And, you know, they would work off Maxine's theory. And so the sergeant's like, here, Maxine, you can lead this task force. You've already been working on this for over a year by yourself. Maxine's like, nope, no.

She was angry and tired and wanted no part in the official task force now. So she handed over the names, everything she had, and the police department released them over to the public for help. And Maxine was like, I'm not helping you guys when you didn't believe me. Yeah, I mean, that's a sticky situation. Right, because she's like, now you want my help? So I've been trying to do this for almost, what, two years? Yeah. And no one even believed me or even looked at me or even talked to me about it. Mm-hmm.

So on June 13th, 1983, the Anchorage Dispatch got a call that there was a Caucasian female running down Fifth Avenue butt naked and handcuffed.

Some guy had offered to pick her up and take her somewhere. She like obviously needed help. So by the time police responded, the girl had been dropped off at a hotel. And when they entered the room she was in, she was still handcuffed, naked and panicked. Police found her some clothes, got her out of the handcuffs and tried to calm her down. By the time they got her calmed down enough to speak, she said her name was Cindy Paulson and she was 17 years old.

She told them that she had been on the corner when a man pulled off and talked to her. When she agreed to the service that he was asking for and got into his car, he eventually pulled over again and put a gun to her head. He got handcuffs out, handcuffed her, and told her to be quiet. He said if she did exactly what he asked and caused no problems, he would let her go. She said he then drove her to his house, which she noted was on Old Harbor Road, and

took her downstairs into a man cave, is what she called it, and forced her to have sex on a large bear skin rug. So it's basically one of those rugs that's like a bear with the head. I was going to say that's super impressive that she noticed where she was going. Because being in that state of panic and be able to recognize that, that's impressive. It's actually something I noted that I didn't hear any sources note when I was researching. But I was like, oh my gosh, for her to get down like that,

Oh my gosh.

he eventually came back down and told her that he was going to take her out to his cabin to spend the weekend together cindy begged and pleaded with him to take her home because she actually lived with her mom who would be worried by this point that she had been gone this long and she probably knew that if she went there for the weekend she was not coming back

Right. So he refused telling her about this plane that they would take to get to her cabin. And you literally just said this, but Cindy says at this point that she knew. She knew that if she got in that plane at the airport, she wouldn't survive. She had been paying attention. She knew what road, she knew what this guy was like. She just knew. So when the man got like...

They got to the airport and he got out to situate the plane and get it ready to put her in. She actually opened the back door of the car, still handcuffed, no clothes, no shoes, and started running for her life through the runway of the airport. Oh my gosh.

She ran until the man in the truck that I talked about earlier stopped to help her. And now here she was in the hotel room with the police. Did he not notice that she jumped out of the car? So actually he chased her for a while. But then when he realized like they were out in public, he just turned around and went back. Because he's freaking out like, oh crap, everyone's going to see me. It's not like he was chasing her through the woods. Like they were at the airport. There were people around. You know what I mean? Got it.

So police take her to the hospital to get a rape kit done, but on the way, they actually pass by the small airport

and they drive around and have her point out the plane that the man was getting ready to put her into. They're like, can you find it? Do you remember what it looks like? And she does. She finds it. And once she does, police dropped her off at the hospital and then begin following up on the lead. They call the airport, and they get the name and information about the owner of the plane. The owner of the small plane was 42-year-old

Robert Hansen. Robert Hansen ran a bakery called Hansen's Bakery in town. He was married to a woman named Darla Hansen, who was a woman of faith that attended the local church, but Robert never really came with her to church.

Darla was a local teacher who excelled very much in that, like she was adored around town. She actually worked with kids who needed a little bit of extra help, and so everyone loved her. Together, Darla and Robert had two children named Christy and Johnny. Robert loved to hunt, but struggled making friends. In fact, Darla would actually often set up many play dates for Robert with other grown men,

but he turned every one of them off in the friendship. So because he couldn't make them like make friends on his own, Darla would like be at church and be like, do you want to hang out with my husband? And then when they would, the guys were like, no, we're not hanging out with him anymore. It makes me so mad. I mean, it makes me mad when someone's a serious, someone kills someone in general, but yeah,

When someone's a serial killer or just anything like that and they have kids. Right. I'm just like, what? And a family. Yeah, a family. Like, oh, I don't understand. I just don't understand. We can't fathom it. It's so crazy.

So one of the guys he actually like tried hunting like with that Darla set up, he hunted with Robert. And then afterwards he told another friend that he felt like Robert enjoyed the kill a little too much and it made him uncomfortable. So he wasn't going to hang out with him anymore. Oh, wow. That's creepy. But I mean, by all initial accounts, like Robert didn't really have any friends, but

But it's not like police were like, oh, this guy causes problems around town. He lived a fairly normal life in Anchorage. He was a baker. He owned a bakery. So why was he sexually assaulting a 17-year-old and attempting to fly her to his cabin in the woods instead of just letting her go after? Police made their way to the Hansons' home, and surprisingly, he cooperated with police.

He told them that he owned a local bakery and that he wasn't with anyone that morning. They asked if they could take a look in the basement anyways. They needed to see the room that Cindy had described. And when they made their way downstairs, there it was. The bearskin rug, animal heads mounted all over the walls, everything matching up to Cindy's story.

But there was no real physical evidence in the basement. And in that moment, police decided to believe Robert over Cindy. No way. He owned a business. He had a family. Cindy was 17 and less credible, according to them.

So they dropped her case, chalked it up to her being upset that he wouldn't pay her and never looked into it again. No way. You're kidding me right now. Nope. But there was one officer, again, a man named Greg Baker, who did believe Cindy. And after all of this, he decided that once again, like Maxine, he would investigate it in secret on his own. Baker taking down the baker. Right. Right.

That's funny, which I do have to say here that we now have two police in this force who are like, okay, well, I'm going to get made fun of or I'm going to get in trouble. There's going to be consequences for this, but I'm going to do this. Like, I believe this. So they have good hearts. You know what I mean? You got to stand up for this stuff. Right. And on the surface, Robert Hansen seemed normal, like we were talking about. But when Greg Baker dug deeper, it turned out to be a completely different story.

Robert Hanson grew up in a small town. His parents owned a bakery. His dad did most of the baking like Robert would go on to do. That's what inspired Robert to start a bakery of his own. Robert was quiet. He had a stutter as a kid and he was bullied and his family was super strict.

He also had severe acne that would go on to like scar his face later. So in pictures of him, you can see that he has scars on his face from this. Robert never had a girlfriend in high school. Most of them turned him down because of the things we were talking about earlier.

And when he graduated, he joined the army where he had his first sexual encounter with a sex worker. When he left the army, Robert came home and actually burned down the high school bus barn because he hated high school. Now, if you don't know what a bus barn is, it's like where they keep the buses, like the building they keep the buses in. He burned it down. He burned it down. He was like, I hate this place. I hated high school and I'm burning this place down.

So his parents, embarrassed by this, sold the bakery and moved to Minnesota where they bought a small resort that they would run and own. While at the resort, Robert met Darla, his future wife that we were talking about. Together, they moved to Alaska in 1967 after getting married.

On November 22nd, 1971, Robert Hansen had actually tried to abduct a real estate secretary named Susan Hepard. He had seen her downtown and waited for her to go home and then followed her to her home, seeing where she lived. And was this not like on his record or it was? So the next day he came back with a gun and tried to abduct her. But unbeknownst to him, the real estate secretary had roommates and they came out and saw what was happening. And so they called the cops.

Robert Hansen was arrested at 32 years old and released on bail while waiting for his court date to be set. Holy crap. So I guess this is on record. I guess what blows my mind is the fact that the police still dropped this case after you could go and look at his past record and go, oh, he tried to abduct someone before. Right. Why wouldn't he have done it again? Right. It just goes to show you how messed up the system was at this point. That's so crazy.

So while Robert was out on bail, police received a call from a victim named Patricia Roberts, who said she had been taken from downtown Anchorage by gunpoint. She was taken and sexually assaulted, but miraculously convinced him to bring her home. She identified her attacker as Robert Hansen. And once again, police arrested him.

But Robert cut a deal this time. He pled guilty to assault with a deadly weapon for the attack on Susan Hepburn, which is the real estate secretary, in exchange for his charges against Patricia Roberts, who is the sex worker, to be dropped. He was sentenced to five years in prison on March 24th, 1972. And I think this, like these first initial attacks were

taught Robert that if he chose sex workers or dancers instead of real estate secretaries... He could get away with it. He could get away with it because police easily, easily dropped the case involving Patricia. And if he picked someone that police didn't care about...

I mean, I don't know. I could be wrong, but this just seems really disappointing to me. And it kind of like seems like it set the way for him to figure out how he could do this under the radar. And continue to get away with it. Yes. Okay, let me guess. Your medicine cabinet is crammed with stuff that does not work.

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So either way, when Greg discovered Robert Hansen's tendency to be violent towards women, his past, the way he grew up, he knew for sure that Cindy was telling the truth. And on top of that, he knew about the other list of victims that Maxine had put together and that they had been working at this time. So he felt strongly that not only had like Robert Hansen done this to Cindy Paulson, that he was also a strong suspect for Maxine's list as well. Greg.

Greg gathered all of the reports for all of these cases that he figured and knew were tied to Robert and handed them over to the troopers who had the authority to do something about it. Greg knew that circumventing his superiors and going straight to the troopers with this information would result in consequences if he was caught, but he also knew that it was worth it.

And it paid off because Robert Hansen was moved up to the number one suspect on everything. Troopers and police knew they needed to get Robert Hansen off the streets and fast. But did they have enough evidence to arrest him was the question. They decided to lure Robert Hansen out of his home on October 27th, 1983, by asking him to come down to the station to talk.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

They then confronted him with all the new abductions and bodies that they had found recently, and he adamantly denied it. He told them that any time he's been arrested, it was because the girls wanted to overcharge him for the services, and it was all like misunderstandings. And he said the only reason he was interacting with sex workers in the first place was because he wanted oral sex, and that was something that he would never let his wife perform because it's degrading for women to do that. What is his...

What does his wife think about all this at this time? So she doesn't. Was there any statements made or anything made? So she doesn't believe them that he could have done this. And mainly she's just devastated. Like in the reports, it says that she just cried. She couldn't like she was just devastated about what was happening at this point in the story. So she was devastated about the sex workers or him going to sex workers. Right. And didn't believe that he was murdering them. Okay.

While Robert is being interrogated, police are also at his home searching. They asked Maxine to come back on the case and help search because she knew these victims better than anyone. So maybe she would recognize something from the house, trophies that Robert had taken. She talked to Darla and the two children and they were all scared, which is where I got that from. There was not much evidence in the house until police made their way up to the attic.

When searching the insulation in the walls, police uncovered three rifles, one of them being the .223 that was used on the women they had found buried on the Kinnick River. Hidden in the insulation. In another part in the wall, in insulation, there was a plastic baggie stuffed in there with tons of jewelry in it.

So Maxine was called over and she positively identified all of the jewelry as those pieces belonging to some of the missing women she had tied to the case. Because remember, she'd gone to the family. She'd gone to friends. She had said, tell me what jewelry they wear, what clothing they wear, what is a trophy that a killer could possibly take from them. And now she had them memorized. So she was easily able to do this. They also found at the house an air map

which is basically just a map, but like from up above with random pencil markings all over it. And it took a couple weeks, but one detective decided to cross check these certain, it was like asterisk markings with the burial sites that they knew of so far. And when two of them matched, police realized that there might be, you know, more bodies out there because there were more asterisks on this map.

And this man had killed much more women than they ever thought. There were 21 asterisk markings on the map that matched the two asterisk markings where they knew the bodies were found. That's horrible. 21 people. So as police are looking at this, they're like,

had Robert Hansen really killed over 20 women? Like are we, we only had 10 on the initial list. Like 10 was what we initially thought. And now there's 21, there was 21 markings on this map. This was now basically for police, an open and shut case, right? Like they had the evidence they needed. There was no arguing this.

well, there shouldn't have been, but we know how nothing really means anything once you're in court. Like, it really doesn't matter. So they were like, we really could use a confession. We never know how these cases are going to go in court. Four months later, while waiting in jail, Robert Hansen asked to talk to a preacher and asked him what kind of sins God forgives.

After this whole conversation with the preacher, Robert Hansen asked to talk to police and he confessed to every crime on February 22nd, 1984. No, he just confessed. Right. What? According to Robert Hansen himself, he felt like good girls were girls that were interested in him and bad girls were girls that were interested in money. And he wanted bad girls when he went out. He wanted girls who would fulfill his fantasy.

Robert Hansen went through the map touching each mark and explaining who the girl was and what happened. He remembered it just like that? He didn't know names, but he was like, I picked this girl up here. This is what happened. This is how I killed her. This is where she's buried.

Each one of those markings. Based on his confession, most girls were undressed and forced to run through the forest for their life while Robert hunted them like animals. You were right. This was the fantasy he wanted. He would pick these girls up,

fly him out, let him go in the forest, let them run for a while, and then he would hunt them down and kill them like animals. That is the craziest thing I've ever heard. That was the game he liked to play. That's not real. That is not real life. He literally hunted people. I can now imagine how that one guy felt when he said he liked killing the animals a little too much. Too much.

Yeah. Probably scared. Right. Because it's like, I get that hunting's a sport, but this is a whole different thing. Like this is about... That's just not real life. This is about fear. That's unbelievable. Yeah.

And the worst part was is like most of these girls were naked and handcuffed running through the forest because he had to make sure they wouldn't, you know, get away away. He confessed to 17 murders that day, 17 bodies that he had buried, which honestly, if you think about that, 17 women. And there was probably more he didn't confess to. Right. Right.

So on February 27th, 1984, Robert Hansen was charged with the murders of Sherry Morrow, Paula Golding, Eklutna Jane Doe, and Joanna Messina, plus the kidnapping and rape of Cindy Paulson. So they did eventually get him for Cindy. He was not charged, but confessed to the murders of Roxanne Eastland, Lisa Futrell, Andrea Fish-Altieri, Sue Luna,

Those are ones that he confessed to that they just didn't charge him with. He was sentenced to 461 years plus life. Seven more bodies were found after the sentencing in April and May of 1984. Oh my gosh.

All using Robert's map. Oh, so they were all those bodies that he confessed to. Right. I thought there were seven more. No, those were ones that he had confessed to that they just hadn't discovered yet. Okay. Robert denied killing three victims that were also later found using the map. So he said, no, no, no, I didn't kill that. That's just a mark. But then they ended up finding the bodies. And their names are Celia Beth Van Zanten, Megan Emrick, and Kathleen Thill.

The remaining six victims that Robert confessed to have never been found, even with help from the map. Robert Hansen died in prison in 2014 at the age of 75. Cases like this are extra upsetting because I wish more than anything that we could sit here and talk about each victim, 21, and remember who they were.

But most of these women have nothing written about them online. They are portrayed as just a name on a list. And I don't want it to be that way. I listed out every name because I want us to really think about these women today and understand that they were real women who were smart and hardworking and mattered. Like they mattered.

They matter to me and I wish they had more years on this earth than they got, but they didn't. And that was because of Robert Hansen. That's horrible. It is really similar to the Picton. Is that what it's called? Yeah. To the Picton farm. Right. Very similar case where there was a ton of women.

Most of them are sex workers. Right. And sadly, this is not like these are not the these two cases don't stand alone with this. Yeah, I can tell you multiple cases of times where serial killers have chosen to

vulnerable women because police didn't care. Like they didn't care to solve it until years later. 17 women. Well, 21, I guess. Correct. Yes. 21. But oh my gosh, like that is so much murder. It's so much. And it's something that's a serial killer. Right. And it's something that is a serial killer. We'll never be able to understand. Like we just won't be able to fathom that. I can't understand someone's mind to be able to do that. I just can't comprehend it.

And I think there's something extra cynical to this case about the fact that it wasn't that he just took them to his cabin and murdered them. It was that he took him to the cabin first and sexually assaulted them and then released them naked into the wild so that he could hunt them because he liked hunting things. I think that just adds like an extra layer of evilness to this case. Horrible. But that was the case of Robert Hanson, the butcher baker.

All right, you guys. Hopefully next week my voice is a little back to normal. Hopefully. Yeah, we're going to end this so Peyton can go and sleep the rest of the day. Yeah. All right. We'll see you guys next week with another episode. I love it. And I hate it. Goodbye. Get 15% off when you go to justthrivehealth.com and use code husband at checkout.