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Hey everybody, welcome back to our podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland. And I'm Garrett Moreland. And he's the husband. And I'm the husband. If you're watching on YouTube, please like and subscribe and give us a comment down below. If you are listening on podcast, please give us a review if possible. We love having you all here. Welcome to the show. Garrett, do you have your 10 seconds for this week? Well, for my 10 seconds this week...
I don't know. I started a new show on Disney Plus called Loki. It's pretty good. I'm a big Avengers fan, so I like stuff like that. Also, Peyton and I went to this ice cream place yesterday that was pretty good. Yeah, I think it's just a local place. Yeah, it's just like a food truck. But they put like a strawberry cookie on top of my ice cream. Anyways...
That's about all I got this week for my 10 seconds. He was in love with it. It was really good. Okay, so our case this week was suggested in by Vanessa Vendrosco. So thank you, Vanessa, for sending this in. Our case sources are a documentary on YouTube called Serial Killers Documentaries. That's like the name of it. And then Wikipedia also has like an amazing page about this case. So that was super helpful as well.
Our case begins in British Columbia, Canada. We are in the downtown east side of Vancouver. This is a rougher area. There's lots of crime and it's called the Skid Row of Canada. Locals call it Low Track. So instead of Skid Row, which if you don't know, Skid Row is an area in LA and they refer to this as Low Track. The locals do.
There's a lot of drugs ran through this area, low track, and can be dangerous with gangs, and the region has the highest HIV infection rate in North America. A lot of people die in low track due to illness and overdose. In the early 90s, low track was no different than what I'm describing today. Surrounding districts had actually passed laws in hopes of gathering these people into low track, shoving people out of their boundaries and into low track.
A 1995 survey around this time showed that most sex workers along Low Track began when they were preteen or children. Most women who work the east side have birthed at least three children and fewer than half know where their kids are or have lost them to the state.
We are well aware that homelessness, drug addiction, and sex work was and still is targeted by serial killers. Cops either cared less as no loved ones were on them about solving these cases or there was just less to go on because sometimes you didn't even have a name. It's really hard to solve a case if you don't even have a name.
Um, there's a lot of changed names and locations really fast in areas like this. So it made people hard to track. If bodies weren't found, how do you know they didn't just make their way to another state with no residential address, no job, anything like that?
Easy prey is what like they would call this serial killers would call this. And although laws have been passed and attention has been raised to the lack of effort put into sex worker and homeless crime, it still happens. It's still one of the like least effort put into solving crime.
It was this exact situation that began happening in the downtown east side of Vancouver, low track, during the 80s and 90s. And it took years for officials to notice the trend, the trend of sex workers vanishing off the streets and never being seen again. And even more years to look into it and begin investigating these disappearances. And I don't mean just like five years. I mean 15 plus years to notice the trend and begin investigating it.
So was it just not enough people going missing or... No, it was plenty of people going missing. It was just...
What I explained before is that if this isn't like a residential address, they're just sleeping on the streets and someone comes in and says, hey, this person's missing. I think the cops were like, well, they probably just went to a different side of town or they probably just left the state. Like there's nothing keeping them tied down here, although we know that's not true. A lot of the time they do. That is their home. Right. But it wasn't always looked at like that.
So 23 year old Rebecca Guno was last seen alive on June 22nd, 1983 in low track and was reported missing three days later. 43 year old Sherry Rell was last seen in January, 1984, but wouldn't be reported officially missing until three years later. So,
So I'm going to go through this list. Number one, I want to respect all the victims or the missing women who have gone missing. I think it's important to list them and not just say, oh, there was an abundance of women. And also, I want to show you that it took three years for this woman to be reported missing. Three years for someone to care enough to go in and say, hey, like she's missing. We haven't seen her.
33-year-old Elaine Auerbach told friends that she was moving to Seattle in March of 1986, but never made it to her destination. She would be reported missing in April of 1986, so about a month later. Teresa Ann Williams, a 26-year-old Aboriginal, was last seen alive in July of 1988 and was reported missing in 1989. In August 1989, mental patient Ingrid Sowett was last seen, but wouldn't be reported missing until 14 months later in 1990.
Around this time, some investigators would come forward to the police department claiming that they had noticed the vast number of disappearances from the low track area and that they were all too similar. All sex workers, all roughly around the same age. And it was a pattern and that they needed to be looked into because that many women don't just leave the state. These detectives would be demoted and
And would eventually resign. And the notion of the pattern would be publicly dismissed. The police would come forward and say, nope, these are homeless women who just have left the state. Weird. Okay. So basically there was this long period before people were reported missing. Yes. And then these detectives figured out the pattern, but then boom, we're let go. Yes. They were immediately like, no, that's not happening in this area. Although literally detectives would come forward and said, no, there's a pattern. Like a lot of women are going missing. Yeah.
Kathleen Watley was 39 years old and the first black victim who vanished in June of 1992 and was reported missing the same month.
Three years later. So we have a three-year gap here. 47-year-old Catherine Gonzalez would go missing in March of 1995 and will be reported missing a year later. The next victim, 32-year-old Catherine Knight, who is different than Catherine Mary Knight, who served her husband up as dinner in episode two of our show. Oh my gosh. So Catherine Knight vanished as well in 1995 and will be reported missing in April 1995.
Dorothy Spence vanished four months after the last victim in August of 1995 and was a 36-year-old Aboriginal. 23-year-old Diana Melnick was last seen in December of 1995 and was reported missing four days after Christmas. A little less than a year later, in October of 1996, 24-year-old Tanya Halleck
was reported missing on November 3rd. Olivia Williams was last seen in December 1996 as a 22-year-old. She wasn't reported missing until July 4th, 1997. Stephanie Lane, age 20, was hospitalized for drugs in March of 1997 and was last seen alive at a local hotel.
Janet Henry, who had survived being drugged by a serial killer named Clifford Olson in the 1980s, not even a decade later, she found herself in low track, living there, working, and was reported missing on June 28th, 1997, two days after talking to relatives. So this woman...
survived, like was kidnapped and survived. He somehow let her go a serial killer, a known serial killer. And then not even a decade late, a decade later went missing again. Were all these women that went missing sex workers or was there a mix of like backgrounds? No. So all these women I'm naming were specifically from low track. Majority of them, sex workers, some of them weren't sex workers, but we're still living homeless in low track. Okay.
August 1997, three women would go missing from low track. Marnie Frey, age 25, would go missing in August but wouldn't be reported until a year later, September 4th, 1998. 32-year-old Helen Hallmark would also go missing in August and not be reported until September as well.
Jacqueline Murdoch, 28, was the third victim that went missing in August and wouldn't be reported until October 1998, so also a year later. 33-year-old Cindy Beck would go missing in September 1997 and wouldn't be reported until April 1998. Andrea Boorhaven was also thought to have gone missing in 1997, but no one informed police until two years later in 1999.
39-year-old Carrie Kosky disappeared in January 1998 and was reported missing the same month. Four more women would go missing from low track before Vancouver police would take an interest in investigating the heaps of missing women. So how many total women went missing? I mean, the number is a little hard because some were found. Yes. Or whatever, but we're in like 50, 60. Okay. Because some were reported, some weren't. So I'm sure the number is going to be all over the place. Exactly. Exactly.
So the last four women who would go missing before police begin actually investigating it are Jacqueline McDonald, who was 23-year-old, who went missing in January 1998 and was reported in February of 1999. Anja Hall, 46, was last seen alive in February 1993 and was reported on March 3rd. Sarah Jane DeFries was last seen in April of 1998 and was reported missing the same day and actually left behind a diary of her life at Low Track.
Sheila Egan was 20 years old when she went missing in July of 1998 and was reported missing in August.
And keep in mind, I named the list of victims that we have, but there are so many more victims who were unidentified or who went missing during that time but weren't reported. So this was just the list that I found that I wanted to give reference to and also not just make them a name, but there were hundreds more. So the official search for the missing Vancouver women began in September 1998.
after an aboriginal group sent police a list of local victims with a demand for investigation. So this group gets a hold, makes a list of all the women that they can find that have gone missing and send it to police and say, this is happening right here in low track and you guys are doing nothing about it and you need to be. Got it. Authorities announce...
They come out about this list and they say not all of the women on the list have been murdered. Some have left the area. Some have died of disease or overdose and their bodies have been found. So this list is inaccurate.
Despite the observations, Detective Dave Dixon was intrigued by this large list and launched his own investigation, drawing up a new list of missing women from Vancouver who had no explanation. So he took off all the ones that had been found, took off all the ones that they knew had left the area and made a new list that was still large.
This second list was so large, including victims that I just named, it went on to inspire the police department to launch their official investigation into the missing women from Low Track.
Vancouver police began with 40 unsolved disappearances dating back to 1971. These women weren't all from low track and they came from all walks of life, but police narrowed the list down to a solid 16 women whom they believe to have been sex workers from low track. So they, they were like, okay, well we have 16 who lived the same exact life from low track who went missing. And that's a pretty large number.
And that was a pattern for them. And they had to ask themselves, was there a serial killer among them who was targeting sex workers specifically from low track going all the way back to 1995? By the time the first arrest in the case would be made, the list would be up to 54 women missing from low track during 1983 to 2001. So it was still going on? Yes. While they are noticing this, women are still going missing.
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Interesting. So wouldn't they just hang out in that area? So yes, you would think. I mean, I know it's harder, easier said than done. Especially in an area where a lot of these people living, the residents living in this area do not trust cops. They do not trust law enforcement. They won't answer questions. They don't want to be around that. And so it's not like you have this cooperation going on.
oh, I saw this person at this time and I saw, I mean, and also with no houses, like people are constantly moving. It's like trying to count the number of people in a room while they're all moving around. It's just really hard.
85 investigators would end up working on this case at some point. But back to where the investigation starts. Police were empty handed when it came to forensic evidence. Most people on low track didn't want to cooperate with the cops. And without any official dates, the investigation was hard. Like when did these girls actually go missing compared to
when they were last seen or when they were reported. Yeah. In June, 1999 police met with relatives of the missing women, the 54 missing women, the list that they hit of sex workers they had made seeking DNA evidence for comparison needs. So they go around, they get all these women's DNA from family members or people they can try to find in hopes that if they do find bodies or they do locate someone, they can test the DNA. Police,
Police searched cemeteries, hospitals, mental facilities, anywhere where these women might still be alive and have gone. Four more sex workers would vanish from the east side downtown while police are actively searching for these women. How can someone...
- Be doing this. - Yeah. - So Julie Young, age 31, was last seen on October, 1998 and will be reported missing in June, 1999. Angelina Jardine, a 28 year old vanished in November, 1998 and was reported on December 6th. Michelle Gurney went missing in December and was reported around Christmas. Marcella Creshen got out of jail at 20 years old on December 27th, 1998 and never made it to her mother's house. So from the route to jail to her mother's house,
where her mother was making Christmas dinner for her, she went missing. - I don't understand how whoever's doing this is, like, this is a lot of people. - A lot of people. - Like, is everything planned out? Is it just random? Like, what's going on? - And my thoughts are, is this just one person? Because you have four women going missing in one month. That's one a week.
Where are you taking them where no one has come forward and said anything? And they can't find these bodies. Exactly. Or a lot of these bodies. Well, they haven't found any that are missing or murdered. I mean, they found overdose victims or illness, death of illness, but they haven't found any suspicious activity victims. Yeah.
So between September, 1999 and March, 2002, police found five of the victims on the 54 person list. Okay. Most had willingly left low track in search of a better life and had found it unaware that they were on the missing woman list and being searched for. Some had actually died of overdose or illness without identification and had been ID later when the police had collected the DNA and then compared it. The,
The problem they were running into during investigation was too many suspects. Every single John who had attacked one of these workers, every drug dealer, every pimp,
is a suspect in this area. And so they had to go through one by one and cross off these suspects. Most of these suspects still getting charged for something else during this investigation, whether it was underage sex trafficking, attacking sex workers, dealing drugs. So they're just bringing in every guy and then putting them away for something else, but not for these missing women. And you have to understand how many sex workers are attacked or
or raped by Johns. Like this is a really long list. Police, although cleaning up the streets at the time were hitting dead ends when it came to the missing women. Late in 1998, detectives finally got a lead from a 37 year old man named Bill Hiscox. He had been widowed and had actually turned to drugs and alcohol. And he ended up being rescued from his downward spiral and,
and was suggested a job by his foster sister. So his foster sister came to him and was like, you've got to stop this. I know these people who can give you a job. And the job was at P&B Salvage, which was a salvage company southeast of Vancouver. The owners and his boss were Robert William, Willie Pickton. So his name's Robert William Pickton, but he could go by Willie Pickton as well. And then Robert's brother, David Pickton. Okay.
Okay. They lived in Port Coquitlam, which Vanessa, our case suggester says they call Poco. So I'm just going to refer to it as Poco because Coquitlam is kind of hard for me to say as well. Okay. And she says all the locals say Poco. So that's what I'm going to say. Bill,
Bill's foster sister who had found him the job was actually Robert Pickton's on and off again girlfriend in 1997. So his foster sister who found him the job was dating the boss or the owner of the salvage yard. Bill would go pick up his paychecks from Robert and David at their house and they lived on a pig farm in Poco. So he would drive to the pig farm and pick up his paychecks.
Bill describes the brother's pig farm as a creepy place. He was uncomfortable every single time he went there to get his paycheck. The farm was actually guarded by a very mean 600 pound boar. So a 600 pound pig and this pig would run around the property with the dogs and like growl at people and stuff. What the heck? So it was like trained? Yes. Yes. Okay. And it is
pig farm. So there's lots of pigs, but this like specific bore was really mean. That's crazy. Robert Pickton was a shy guy. According to Bill, he was hard to talk to, but Bill said he could actually talk to women. Okay. So he really just felt like Bill wasn't interested at all in, in men. Like he just had no need for them. He only liked talking to women. Robert drove a converted bus with tinted windows that he loved more than anything.
The brothers also ran a charity called the Piggy Palace Good Time Society. And this was a nonprofit that organized and coordinated events and parties for businesses in need.
And according to locals, the special events that happened at Piggy Palace, which was a building on the pig farm that they converted into a place to host these parties, was actually just drunken raves with sex workers as entertainment. Oh, okay. So they weren't actually a nonprofit doing good. They just listed themselves as a nonprofit to get away with it. Okay, got it. Police already knew who the Pickton brothers were when Bill Hiscock called in one day after seeing an article in the paper about the missing sex workers. Okay.
Bill told police that he had an awful feeling about these brothers and what they were into. And he thinks that police should look into them. How far away were they from the city? It was a different, like, it was a different area, but it was a drive. Like, it wasn't a long drive. Like, they could easily just get there. Does that make sense? Yep. From low track specifically. Got it. From low track. Yes. David...
Robert's brother had actually been convicted of sexual assault in 1992. He had attacked a woman at his trailer at the pig farm, but she had actually escaped. Soon after Piggy's Palace opened, the Pickton brothers were found in court being sued after converting the building into a party building, even
though they were only zoned for agricultural reasons. Okay, got it. So if you don't know about that zoning just means you can't build anything on your property because your property is zoned only for agricultural or your property is zoned only for commercial or whatever it is. So they can't make a commercial building on an agricultural zone. The court ordered they could have no more public events at the farm.
And then the brothers eventually lost their nonprofit status because they were like, also, you can't file as a nonprofit and not be a nonprofit. And then have parties. Yes. Okay. So in March of 1997, Robert Pickton was charged with attempted murder of a sex worker
named Wendy Lynn, who he had stabbed multiple times at the pig farm. And she actually got the knife away from him and stabbed him back and then ran off the property. In 97, you said? In 97, which was also, 97 was a big time when we were seeing a lot of those sex workers go missing. She was found on the side of the highway in the early morning hours. She was picked up by someone who dropped her off at the hospital because she had several stab wounds.
Robert Pickton was found at the hospital with one stab wound. So her story completely matched up. The charges were later dropped. Why?
No idea. It didn't say. Bill told detectives that Robert circles the downtown area all the time for women, that he picks up sex workers all the time and he brings them back to the pig farm and that there are multiple purses and IDs in his trailer on the farm that belong to women. So Bill's like, hey, I think this guy is like kidnapping these women and not returning them. And this is why I feel this way. Yeah.
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Police immediately searched the farm, the Picton farm, but come up empty handed. And back in Vancouver, the list of missing women was growing longer and longer. So I'm confused. If he said there was purses and everything there. They weren't there when they went to search. Okay.
Slowly, media spread the word about the missing women that continue to go missing in the area. This was unusual and a strange pattern and to be careful. And if it had been a person kidnapping these women, the year of 1997 seemed to be the most abrasive year yet with the number rising faster than usual, even though police are actively investigating it.
Police wait and hope that whoever it is makes a mistake soon as his needs accelerate. The idea of serial killers had not been lost on the people of Vancouver. Around this time, the Green River Killer had been killing since 1982 to 1984. He had killed many women, and DNA evidence linked the killings to a 52-year-old Gary Leon Ridgeway. Dayton Leroy Rogers also was stalking sex workers around this time, and he had killed eight of them.
Keith Hunter Jepperson was a British Columbia native and a trucker who actually murdered women along his truck route. He was nicknamed the happy face killer, but no links would be found between these serial killers and the missing low track women. And years would go by as police look into other serial killers and local suspects, but nothing comes of any of it.
That is until February 2nd, 2002, when Constable Catherine Galliford told reporters that detectives were searching the Picton farm once again in relation to the missing women from Low Track.
Robert Pickton was already in custody at the time of the search for gun charges, but would be released on bail. And on February 22nd, Robert Pickton was arrested once again, shocking the locals as he was charged with two counts of first degree murder.
Only two? Only two. Okay, interesting. The victims were Serena Abbotsway and Mona Wilson, who had both gone missing in 1997 from low track and were now in 2002. Oh, so five years later. Yes. Okay. On March 8th, investigators released that DNA collected from the pig farm had been positively matched to Serena Abbotsway. So they knew she was there. They knew she had died there.
A month later, on April 3rd, Robert was charged with three more counts of murder, naming victims Jacqueline McDonald, Heather Bottomley, and Diane Rock. Okay, so they're starting to find a bunch of DNA, I assume. Yes, they are still searching the farm. You have to keep in mind this farm was acres and acres and acres and kind of like a junkyard. So there was lots of buildings. And how are they finding DNA? I mean, there's pigs everywhere and there's animals. Exactly. So that's why it is taking so long is that they have to search-
find the DNA, test it, compare it. And that, you know what I mean? So it is, it's a long process, but,
Another charge then again happens for Angela Jossberry, who was filed six days later. These victims' time of deaths and missing reports prove that all of these kidnappings and murders that happened at this pig farm had happened since the time that Bill Hiscox had fingered the Pickton brothers to police back in 1997. So he pointed out these guys, and then all of these charges that we're seeing now happened afterwards.
after that, after police had already been told that this was their guy, essentially.
On May 22nd, 2002, a seventh charge was filed when the remains of Brenda Wolf were found on the pig farm. How could Robert Pickton have abducted and murdered several more victims after being pointed out and his farm searched? So is this the first time that they found actual remains? Yes, this is the first time that it wasn't just DNA, that it was like actual remains. Meanwhile, police were still searching the massive pig farm. It would take a long time to collect the DNA and test.
Was there 47 other women killed at the pig farm? No freaking way. That would be insane. Because their list was 54 originally, remember? And so they're like, are all these women here? Are all the missing women from our list here? Because we've now found what? Six, seven? Seven. That has to be like the most...
Anyone's ever killed, right? Exactly. So was this list also the only tip of the iceberg? Keep in mind, they had condensed this list to a very specific number. There were still many more women from low track and other areas who had gone missing around the same time. Or who haven't been reported. Exactly.
So police came out around this time and said that they believe 144 sex workers were murdered or missing in the area since the beginning of that. They started tracking missing women. Was Robert responsible for all 144? Probably not. I mean, there were other reasons that people go missing or especially in an area like low track where you move in and out fast and
Four more charges would be announced on October 2nd, 2002. Heather Gabrielle Shinnok, Tanya Marlo Hallock, Sherry Irving, and Inga Monique Hall. Tanya and Inga were on the earliest version of the list back in the early 90s, two victims that I told you about. So in the early 90s.
Like he's been doing this for 10 years. Yes. Robert was now being charged with 15 murders of low track missing women. The case had now become the largest serial killer case in Canadian history. Oh, okay. So because they're officially taking 15. Got it. I know that they feel as if there were more and that they just didn't have solid enough evidence, but they're like, we're charging him with 15 murders, which is what you said. This has to be the biggest case. So was he,
Were both the brothers getting charged? Nope. Just? Just Robert. So David and Robert lived on separate buildings in the property because Robert mainly ran the pig farm. David wasn't as involved in it and only Robert is getting charged. Okay.
As time went on, more and more remains from missing low track women were found on the property. In the freezer, in the wood chipper. Oh my gosh. And then they realized that the bodies had been mushed and fed to the pigs on the farm as pig feed. So I kind of thought about that when you mentioned the pigs. Yes. That's kind of the first thing that came to my head. Where are these bodies going? Was it would be...
As horrible as it is, it would be an easy way to... Feed the pigs. Well, to get rid of... Yeah. Because they would find these bodies in the wood chipper, which they would then grind up and feed to the pigs along with other pig food. That's horrible. So Yvonne Bowen, Dawn Cray, Wendy Crawford, Andrea Borhaven, Carrie Kosky, and Kara Ellis, and then three more unidentified remains' DNA were found on the property. Oh my gosh. She's crazy. I can't believe they would... Ugh.
All family members from the remaining 63 women were contacted and told about the case. So they contacted as many missing women that they could, their families, and say, hey, we found this farm. It has a lot of remains from missing women. We'll let you know if we find anything from your family member. Yeah.
anthropologists would begin searching the soil of the large farm and surrounding area around this time. So this search has been going on for so long. By mid-October 2004, the 21-month search of the 14-acre pig farm would link 30 women and their DNA to the property, and 27 of them were on the list that the police had. 30 women. That is so many. And that doesn't include...
I mean, the ones that were fed to the pigs, right? There is no DNA. They can't do anything about that, right? Exactly. A doctor came out stating that it's very disturbing to think about, but there is probably some degree of cross-contamination between the human meat and the pig meat that the pig farm produced.
Oh my gosh. So they think that they were producing, they would give or like sell pig meat locally to local people. They weren't like a commercial industry. I didn't even think about that. A doctor says that there's a very high chance that there was cross-contamination, that these people who were eating or buying pig meat from the picked in pig farm.
were probably also eating or buying human meat with that many dead bodies rolling through there. - Okay. - Also had Robert fed his victims' bodies to those that came to his parties at Piggy Palace when he was throwing those because he fed the guests that came.
At trial, a testimony would say yes, that Robert Pickton himself had told another person that this is what he did with the bodies, that he fed them to people. Oh, so he told somebody this. He told someone that he did this. And this is going to be, we're now moving into the trial. Okay. And this is going to be a part of this case that is really confusing. The Crown, which is Canada's prosecution, so like how we would call them the state, they call them the Crown.
They would be taking this to trial. And despite the numerous murder charges and even more DNA evidence that they have of multiple women being there, they will only be taking six to trial due to these being the more concrete evidence. Like I'm sure there's actual body parts, stuff like that, not just DNA of them being there.
Our CMP officers, which our CMP in Canada is like the FBI. So you still have your police, but you also have the FBI there. It would be our CMP. They described the blood evidence at the pig farm at the trial. The victims were never found in one piece. There was never one full body found. There had been severed heads found in the freezer. There were jaw bones in the pig pens.
Holy crap. So almost as if they just put the head in the pen and let the pigs eat everything. There was zero care for human life whatsoever. Zero care. Pickton smiled at court. So Robert, when weapons he had used to cut up the bodies were shown, like he was very expressive. He didn't care. He wasn't sorry. The jury was shown pictures of the body parts found. Three of the victims they think had been shot.
Police testified at trial about the victims and who they were as people, that people actually loved these victims, that these weren't just nobodies, that Robert Pickton had treated them as that.
that a lot of these women worked on low track in order to feed their children, that many of them were on hard times. On December 9th, 2007, the jury returned that Pickton was not guilty on six counts of first degree murder, but he was guilty on six counts of second degree murder. Huh?
How? How can they? How can they say that? So at trial, it comes out. They bring up a lot of men who were friends with the Picton brothers who worked for them or regulated the pig farm, attended the piggy, the piggy palace parties, stuff like that.
And a lot of these men knew about the sex workers coming and not leaving the farm. So my guess is they thought that they were the ones who killed them, then brought them to the farm to get rid of the bodies. So at trial, the defense was threw up that exact notion, threw up that, oh, well, was these guys doing the killings? Was this not all Robert? Like we...
We don't know. We don't know. Look at all these people. And they were just throwing all of this questioning into it. And I think that's what led the jury to go. We can't do first degree, but we'll, we'll feel comfortable with second degree. So six second degree murders would still get him life, correct? So British Columbia justice sentence picked into life with no possibility of parole for 25 years. Okay.
which is the highest sentence you can get in Canada. So in Canada, there's no death penalty. There's no life without the possibility of parole, like actual life. - So life is only 25 years? - Up to 25 years. - Okay. - So this is also the same sentence he would have received if he had been convicted for first degree murder. This was the highest sentence you can get in Canada.
So the justice basically said, despite the fact that it was second degree murder, I'm giving him the highest penalty he can receive. You can't get it like one is 25. The next is 25. The next is OK. No, not not not in Canada.
So appeals have been filed and rejected from the defense and Robert is currently incarcerated right now because this was in 2004. So you told me he gets out pretty soon. Yeah. So I don't have like an exact release date. I just know that it's coming up because that's the highest extent that you can get. He'll be like actually released. Wow. Okay. So accusations that are CMP and police are,
The investigation ran rampant when the investigators who had originally pointed out the pattern back when it was first starting, they came forward at trial after trial to media and said, hey, we pointed this out before all of these girls went missing and were killed. Did they get anything for this? Because they got fired, didn't they? Yeah, no, they didn't get anything. They tried to sue and the charges were dropped. Got it. But a lot of local media,
uproar about it being like, you guys knew, you guys knew there was a pattern and for years and years you refused to look into it. Had this case been treated differently because it was all sex workers from low track? If these victims had been different victims, would this have been looked into faster? Probably. The victim's children filed a lawsuit basically against all of the law in Canada, against police, against RCMP, against just everything. They did end up giving a settlement to all of the victim's children and
So Robert Pickton had been pointed out by bill and a woman had survived almost being killed on his property. Remember she had been stabbed and those charges had been dropped. He had been released. Like, how did this, how were these signs not like, how did this not happen faster? There was so much evidence on the farm.
David was not charged in any of the murders like we talked about. And I think Robert Pickton realized after the first couple times that he killed a sex worker that he could do this and no one who could do anything about it really cared. Like no one came forward. There was no family members being like, what's going on? Are you looking into her case? And so I think
He wasn't brilliant. He wasn't smart. He wasn't manipulative. These were messy murders, careless, not even trying that hard to get away with it. But I think the lack of police effort into it just made it easy for him. Killing a sex worker became equivalent to him as doing anything else. Mm-hmm.
Like that's how often and easily he was doing it. Killing a pig or butchering a pig, whatever. Everyone in his life knew about it. I'm sure there were times that this guy ended up bringing a girl over and then he would just end up killing her. You know what I mean? He didn't always kidnap them. A lot of men who had come to the pig farm knew about it, knew what was going on. And I think this is why Bill had such a bad feeling about
Because I think it was just openly talked about, not like come right out and be like, oh, we're killing sex workers here. But I think there was just this lack of respect and for human life at the pig farm. And this is what gave Bill this icky feeling and why he went to the cops. Yeah.
Robert Pickton in gel would end up telling an undercover cop that they had put in his like as his cellmate that he wasn't actually like this brilliant serial killer. He was caught because he was sloppy because he didn't like he he didn't try. So he made it to it. Yes. He was like, oh, I was just basically doing it right in front of their eyes and nobody cared.
But yeah, that is the pig farm murders and the missing women of Vancouver. That's crazy. What's crazy is I'm thinking about it. And I do wonder if there is a whole bunch of people who go out, take these women, kill them, and then take them to the farm. And take them to the farm. Like if it was this huge. Ring. Yeah. Right? Maybe not. Maybe it's too complicated. But it just feels like there were too many. It feels like there were too many women killed.
To for Robert to have done this alone in secret. Yeah. People had to have known about it. You don't just show he was keeping these women's purses and IDs in his trailer out in the open for everyone to see for his employee employee who was coming to pick up his paycheck to see this wasn't a secret. This wasn't like a secret thing he was doing. I don't think.
I'm just going to quickly list the 30 victims that they found the DNA at the pig farm. Okay. Serena Abbotsway, Mona Lee Wilson, Andrea Jonesberry, Brenda Ann Wolf, Marnie Lee Frey, Georgina Faith Pappin, Jacqueline Michelle McDonald,
Diane Rosemary Rock, Heather Kathleen Bottomley, Jennifer Lynn Firmager, Helen May Hallmark, Patricia Rose Johnson, Heather Chinook, Tanya Hulk, Sherry Irving, Inga Monique Hall, Tiffany Du, Sarah Dave Rice, Cynthia Felix, Angela Rebecca Jardine, Diana Melnick,
one unidentified, Deborah Lynn Jones, Wendy Crawford, Carrie Kosky, Andrea Faye Borhaven, and Kara Louise Ellis. And who knows how many more, right? And who knows how many more because those were just the ones that they could like conclusively identify. Crazy. So I just wanted to list all of them so that we can keep them all in our thoughts and prayers that they're not just these
women on low track who went missing that they're actual people and victims of this horrible man. - Yeah. - Who like genuinely, it wasn't even a fascination with killing. I don't think, I just think he was a bad person.
That is our case this week. And we will also have imagery and everything on YouTube and also on social media. If you want to follow us, that's Murder With My Husband on Instagram and Facebook. Also, we have a Patreon episode coming out next week. So if you want to check our Patreon out, that's just Murder With My Husband Patreon. And we will see you guys next week with another episode. I love it. And I hate it. Goodbye.
