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Hey everybody, welcome back to our podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland. And I'm Garrett Moreland. And he's the husband. And I'm the husband. Okay, we're back. I know everybody's been anxiously waiting for part two, unless you were on Patreon and got it a little early. But yeah, we're here. Part two of this case. Okay, so before we get into it, we have to do your 10 seconds. So my 10 seconds won't be anything crazy just because we just recorded yesterday.
And we're recording this next part the day after. So recording a lot earlier than normal. Gotta keep it fresh on Garrett's mind. It's true. Otherwise, I will come down here and say, wait, who's Charles Manson again? Hey, I'm kind of a friend remembered. I actually had to think about it for a second. But today is my birthday. What did we do? I got a haircut on my birthday. Yeah. Did you guys notice his fresh cut? A fresh cut.
We just, honestly, we had some like business calls and meetings. Yeah, we just worked today on murder with my husband. I'm slowly getting my voice back. Also, I did fix the sprinklers. Oh, yeah. In our lawn the other day. Except I'm not going to lie, this morning when I left, it kind of looked like maybe some of them were back shooting the concrete. Are you serious? Yeah. Why does that keep happening? I don't know.
I literally keep fixing. Because we're not experts. Apparently not. Okay, well, apparently I didn't fix my sprinklers. Some of them were still good. We just didn't get fake grass. Agreed. And we can save water too, you know? Yeah. I say that as I'm drinking out of a plastic bottle of water. Yeah. Don't say that. Don't air out our dirty laundry. Other than that, I guess last thing I'll say is that, oh, we're going to see Top Gun tomorrow. Yeah. So...
I wish I could talk about if it's good or not, but we're not seeing it until tomorrow. So that'll be on the following week's episode. Or maybe I'll post about it on my social media. Pretty excited for that. I did get a new shirt again from Cotton On.
Man, I'm just buying clothes lately. Sorry, I was thinking about something. Babe, you're turning into me. I really like that shirt. Thanks babe. Okay, so let's get into this. So again, this is part two. So if you have not listened to the episode before this, that would be episode 114. You need to go listen to that before you listen to this one because it is the whole first part of this story. So stop. If you haven't listened to it, go listen to that one first.
But yeah, this is part two of the Charles Manson family cult and murders. Also, there are a lot of case sources that I used for this, obviously. And I'm not going to list every single one today. So if you want to go check them out, they're always linked in our case sources. And I might add them in at the end, but it would probably take me 15 minutes to get through all of them. So I'm not going to do that today. Okay, so we left off with this.
Charles Manson basically gets released on parole in 1967. And then this is kind of the beginning of the Manson that most of us have heard about. So in April of 1967, Charles Manson moves to San Francisco, California. Now it's important to note that San Francisco is actually noted as the main center of
of the hippie movement. Now I know that hippie is often used as a derogatory term nowadays, but this was the term for the movement back then. And to my knowledge, this is still what it's called. So the hippie movement.
It was a thriving community for artists and musicians mostly. And then also the drug usage was kind of heavy. All over the country, young people were hitchhiking to make it to San Francisco to find this life. So this movement is just starting and the hub of it is in San Francisco.
- I did not know that. - This movement was seen as a way for individuals to kind of protest the government and was actually a direct result of the various national and international struggles that defined the 1950s. It embraced drug use, obviously, liberal sexuality, music, and freedom.
Charles Manson was actually actively participating in psychotic drugs and was even involved in a study through the National Institutes of Health on the effects of drugs on the counterculture movement, which was basically the hippie movement. This resulted from America's involvement in Vietnam and growth of the civil rights movement. It was a time where people began pushing back and not just following the status quo anymore.
So essentially just all of these kind of crappy things were happening. And there was this movement of, Hey, I think we can think for ourselves and trying to find peace and love within this. Charles actually even attended sessions with his probation officer where he was purposely given LSD and amphetamines for research purposes. This is how big this movement was becoming in San Francisco. Everyone wanted to know if this new thing worked, if these, I mean, yeah,
LSD drugs weren't known. And so people wanted to know what these were. That's crazy. Just handing out LSD like it's nothing. And it was here that Charles Manson began collecting what we would eventually know to become his in real life followers.
I want to give a brief overview in case someone doesn't know about the soon-to-be Manson family, which according to Garrett, I don't even think you really know. So just a quick thing before we dive deep into it. The Manson family was a commune and cult led by Charles Manson that was active in California from the late 1960s until the early 1970s.
The group consisted of, at its peak, 100 followers, and they lived an unconventional lifestyle with avid use of LSD, hippie culture, and communal living. You know, 100 followers does not seem like a lot of people. But in real life, everyone living in this tiny little area with 100 people is kind of a lot of people, if you think about it that way. Like, they're all living together. Yeah.
And that's kind of a lot of people. I guess it just seems like 100 people can't do a lot of damage. Right. Like you could shut it down easily. This is actually a good part. And I'm sure I'll mention this later, but we can get into it now. You saying you would shut it down easily now today. But back then, this type of movement, Charles Manson's cult was...
part of a bigger movement. He was abusing and manipulating a movement that was already happening. So I think he was kind of like sliding under the radar because he was masking it as this thing that everyone was doing, even though no, not every single person was in a cult. You know what I mean? So sex was a major part of the Manson family and everyone slept with everyone there. That's what it was about. It was about being free and accepting it and living this lifestyle.
So Charles's first recruit was a woman named, actually a young girl named Mary Bruner who worked at UC Berkeley. So Charles actually met her right after getting out after and getting out on parole and he had nowhere to live at this point. And she actually invites him to stay with her if he would stop using drugs.
She was from Wisconsin and had earned her BA and worked as an assistant librarian. But it wasn't long after getting involved with Charles that Mary decides to give up her job, start partaking in the new lifestyle with Charles, and eventually actually help recruit other members of
into what would be called the family. And this is not the last time we're going to see what seems to be a successful young girl starting her life, all of a sudden getting sucked into this with Charles Manson. Then in May of 1967, Charles meets a woman named Lynette Fromey, who was a teenage runaway and was known as Squirtle.
That was her nickname. After recruiting Squeaky, Manson finds a 19 year old Patricia Krenwinkel and 20 year old Susan Atkins while he was playing his guitar. And that was obviously his whole thing. Like I said, music and love. So this is how he's kind of attracting the girls. His music is already big right now and he's kind of attracting them with this.
So Charles Manson, Mary Lynette and Patricia Krenwinkel and Susan Atkins all begin living and traveling around in an old school bus that they painted black.
The girls believed Charles Manson was their leader and actually was a manifestation of Jesus Christ living in California. So already off the bat, he has convinced these girls, these young girls. I mean, like I said, most of them are teenagers that he is Jesus Christ living in California. Like he like said those words? Yes. Yes. Okay. And when you say young girls. As young as 14.
Oh, not these specific girls, but in the family, there were girls as young as 14. I thought you meant like girls that are 18, 19. Right. And these girls are 18, 19. But there was girls that were younger. There was girls as young as 14. Yes. So Charles Madsen actually spent a lot of time preaching and teaching, using music and drugs within all of that.
And you need to remember, I said that the flood of young adults were making their way to San Francisco to be a part of this new movement, the music and the free spirit movement, which is why I just said it's not that weird to think that Charles Manson was so easily recruiting people to his way of life.
Together, him and the girls actually drove to Washington State so Charles could try and find his mother. But really, he dropped in on Kathleen's house and told Kathleen's daughter from another marriage that he was a bill collector and she needed to find him money.
This is just the start of the schemes that Charles and his following would pull. And in July of 1967, Charles actually gets arrested for interfering with the arrest of one of his followers, Ruth Ann Morehouse, who was a teenager.
A lot of the girls who were becoming part of the Manson family were young runaways or girls labeled as rebellious teenagers. So when the cops interrogated Charles for this arrest, so one of his followers gets arrested and he comes to the bat for her and then he gets arrested and he tells the cops that he was the young girl's minister.
So this proves that already he knew what he was doing. He was getting all of these girls to follow him and live with him. And this was wrong because he's lying to authorities about it. It was around this time that Manson and his followers began referring to him as a prophet.
And he becomes known as a guru around San Francisco. So not only to the family, but outsiders begin hearing about this Charles Manson, who is just so big in this movement. And he is a prophet and he preaches love and acceptance. And he really becomes kind of idolized, not just in his family. I'm sure some of this was part of the delusion brought on by the heavy, heavy drug usage that was happening in
But there was also a core solid group forming at this point. It was known that the group LSD trips were encouraged by Charles. So they would all get together and they would trip together. But he would actually take less or none so that he could keep his wits about him and be in control. So everyone else was kind of on these drugs and participating in this. But Charles himself wasn't all of the time.
Now, one tactic for recruitment that Charles began doing is actually throwing knives above the head of his girls. And this is how people could know that they could trust him. Oh, like where they sit. They stand against the wall and he's throwing knives again. How did he learn that? I don't know.
Maybe in prison. He did spend a lot of time there. How do you go, okay, I think I'm going to practice throwing knives above people's heads. Right. Again, these people who visited the family to be recruited were immediately given hallucinogenics upon arrival. So this might seem wild to you, but with 30 people telling you that this man is amazing and he's called of God while you are on a trip,
And now he's saying, look at me. I can throw these knives and not hit these girls. This is how much trust we have in this family. It just might work. Interesting. Like you might just believe it. Also around this time, Mary, his first recruit becomes pregnant.
And she is thrilled because now she has one-upped all of the other girls. She has now tied herself to the prophet forever. Now, this is important because although from the outside, it kind of looked like everyone was down with the situation and the family and the free love, there was definitely still human emotion happening within this family. So is there no other guys right now? No.
Not right now, but guys hang out with the family. I don't know if guys are necessarily living within the family at this point. They do eventually. So Charles is basically sleeping with all these girls. Oh, uh-huh. And there's no other guys. There's guys that come and sleep with them and hang out with them and party with them. But I don't know if there's guys currently at this point in the early stages who are in the Corsola group living with them. Right.
like saying they're part of the Manson family. They just party with the Manson family. Does that make sense? Some of the girls fought really hard for Charles, despite the fact that he slept with almost all of them. They still wanted to have the best relationship with him. I mean, he was their leader. He, these girls believed that he was the almighty. He was just amazing.
In the fall of 1967, Charles tells the family that he has been inspired and they are now moving to Los Angeles to make it big in Hollywood. So up until now, they've been in San Francisco, but he's like, you know what? I've been inspired that we are gonna move to Los Angeles and we are gonna make it big. We are gonna become famous.
But instead, they all move there and end up spending most of the time scrounging around dumpsters for food because none of them are working. They're all just kind of living together, taking drugs and, you know, being free. But that means that they don't have any means to survive. At this point, Susan Atkins then becomes pregnant. So in the spring of 1968, Mary gives birth to a son named
Michael Manson, and he was nicknamed Pooh Bear. And I think it's important, you know, everyone in the family was given shared responsibility of raising him. So he wasn't Mary's baby. He was everyone's baby because this is the Manson family. And I want to say here that every member of the Manson family had nicknames and they had to refer to themselves as their nicknames. And we've seen this before with other cults, nicknames.
names are changed in an attempt to exert control and create a loss of identity. This is really normal in this type of situation. After this, and while still struggling, a couple of the Manson girls just happened to be picked up on the Sunset Strip by Dennis Wilson of the Beach Boys. So they're hitchhiking. No way. And Dennis Wilson of the Beach Boys picks up some girls who belong to the Manson family. And they're like,
Hey, we're part of this family. You got to come see it. You got to come check it out. You got to come party with us. Come hang out with us.
This is when Charles Manson and Dennis Wilson become acquainted. That's what are the chances of that? Right. And Dennis was taken by Charles and this new fun way of life. I mean, they're already really you're hearing about this movement everywhere. I mean, it's the 70s or, you know, the late 60s. Everyone's living like this. But Charles and his family are really living like this. And it seems funny.
good and fun from the outside. And I mean, I think it helps that when he shows up, Charles Manson is just drowning in pretty women, pretty young women. And so, of course, a man is going to want to party with this family. Hola. ¿Cómo está? Hola, ¿cómo estamos? Want to learn a new language? Well, the best way is to uproot your entire life, move to Spain, and live there for the rest of your...
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and board at his mansion on Sunset Boulevard. What in the world? Because he wants to be a part of this. He's begun hanging out with them. How did I not know that he was part of this? He's not a part of the family.
But he's partying with them. Yeah. Like often, often enough that he's like, hey, come move in this house. You guys are living on the streets. This is no way of life. Come move into my mansion on Sunset Boulevard and we will keep partying. That's so, that's insane. Right. So Charles and Dennis actually bond really well. They have a great friendship and they bond over their awful childhoods. And pretty soon, I mean, awful childhoods again,
Dennis is saying I had a hard childhood and Charles is saying, oh, everyone in my family hated me and they bond over this. And Dennis is introducing Charles to all of his friends.
But Dennis from the Beach Boys friends in Hollywood are in the music industry. Like he is meeting high up people in Hollywood. Charles Manson has now made his way and found his way into Hollywood. And he likes music. This is huge for Charles. He has been in love with music and he has said from the beginning that he is going to be bigger than the Beatles. And keep in mind, Charles, from the time he was eight years old, is a con artist. He has manipulated people to get what he wants.
And so for him to be being introduced to these big people, this is like him saying everything I have prophesied is coming true. Yeah. It kind of makes me mad because it makes them look right. Right. He's like, we're going to go to LA. We're going to be famous. Oh, of course. And it's from the beach boys came over and offer you his mansion. And now you're getting introduced to all these guys. Well, and this is when Charles meets music producer, Terry Melcher.
Now I know this name not might be big to any of us. So I'm going to explain who this is. Terry Melcher is an American record producer, singer and songwriter who was instrumental in shaping the late 1960s California sound and rock movement.
He was the only child of actress and singer Doris Day, which you might recognize that name. He produced several songs for the Beach Boys, which was how he knew Dennis. So basically at this time, Terry is the man you want to meet in California in the late 60s if you are looking into going into music. He is top notch. And Charles Manson has just met him and many other influential people in Hollywood. Yeah.
Meanwhile, the Manson family is still growing day by day while staying at Dennis's Sunset Boulevard house. And it begins to take a toll on Dennis. The Manson family has cost him over $100,000. Is he like feeding them and stuff too? Feeding them, buying them drugs, basically funding their lifestyle. Wow. He's paying for all of the medical bills, which kind of was a lot because there was a lot of STDs going around at this time because no one...
really understood safe sex or the practice of it and they were all sleeping with each other and so STDs were going around fast and with this kind of free love attitude Charles Manson begins trafficking out his women for favors and connections in the music industry. Oh my gosh I did not know that. So he has convinced all of these girls that music is his calling and
And this is how they are going to help him get there. This is part of the Manson family. This is in our future. If someone like Terry, the producer, comes to visit, Charles insists that the girls walk around without their shirts on and then at the end of the night show him a good time.
in hopes that it helps further his career. Now, I don't think the girls were necessarily protesting this, but this is also wrong. You know what I mean? Like you can't just be saying these girls are going to provide sexual favors in hopes that it gets me somewhere. In the summer of 1968, Manson is recording more music. He's recording a ton of music in an attempt to get a record deal with the Beach Boys. He's like, I've got my in. I'm going so music heavy right now to try to get there.
The family has also grown so large at this point that they can no longer stay with Dennis. They have added some men. They have added more girls, not to mention they have definitely overstayed their welcome at the house on Sunset Boulevard. And so this is when Charles Manson somehow convinces a man named George Spann to let him and his family move to a place called Spann Ranch.
Now, Span Ranch was a movie set owned by elderly George Span. George owned this piece of land that was a movie set that he let movies use. It was a movie set in order for the Manson family to come live there. George also lived there. And because of that, he had regular time with all of the girls there.
at the ranch. This was how they lived there for free. He got free access to the Manson girls. And so basically the Manson family takes over the ranch. In fact, Lynette's nickname Squeaky, this actually comes from the noise of
that she made when creepy old nearly blind George ran his hand up her thigh. - Oh my gosh. - So that's where her nickname came from. And this is kind of tells you the atmosphere that's happening here.
And this move to the ranch is where most stories really begin with Charles. The documentary I watched starts at this ranch because this is where the new ideologies and extreme practices begin. If you think of the Manson family, you most likely picture them in the middle of this ranch, sleeping on the floor in the barns, sitting in the rocking chairs on the decks.
bathing together outside in the outside baths and hiking around the area, just completely living free, walking around nude and on drugs.
And it's around the time of this move to the ranch that the family reaches peak numbers. So 100 people living at this ranch. And with those peak followers is when Charles begins his doomsday cult theories, talking about this imminent apocalyptic race war that was bound to happen between the black and white population in America. Okay, so...
I mean, was he racist? Yes. Cause I was going to ask that cause, or was he just doing it? Cause he had nothing else better to do. Like, is he a racist? Does he want power? He is a racist. He wants power. But I mean, to his core, Charles Manson is a racist. He tells his followers, he's like, listen, the,
there is going to be this race war between white people and black people and black people are going to win. And the only white people that are going to survive are you, the Manson family. This is what he tells them. And this is kind of when the Manson family becomes a religious cult in a way, because he's now talking about,
things that weren't just like, oh, we're this big family that lives together and worships me. It's now taking on another life. Manson considers himself the white leader and self-appointed master that would save them from this race war. Now, I do want to say here, if you are triggered by race, we are going to keep talking more about his theories here so you can skip just a little bit. But
Manson adopts the term Helter Skelter to describe this race war, which was taken from the lyrics of a song on the Beatles album. So what does it even mean? The Beatles came up with it. They just say Helter Skelter. And then he says, you know what Helter Skelter is? It's the race war. The Beatles were talking about the race war. Got it. So he, I mean, it does not going to really make much sense, but this is what he's saying. Um,
So basically Manson sits all of his followers down that are now living on the ranch and tells them he's been called to be the leader and the savior during Helter Skelter. That's so messed up. Like I said, Charles Manson, plain and simple, is a racist who was going to save his followers from black people. This is what he's saying on his ranch. That's so insane to think. Right, right. It is awful. It is not good, especially because the movement is,
the, you know, the hippie movement was founded because of the civil rights movement. Like people were saying, no, we can stand up to the government. We can talk on our own. And now he's, you know, he's using this. It just, it's awful. Yeah.
He began preaching about the war to his followers every day. He's reading out of the Bible and saying, look, this passage in the Bible is about Helter Skelter. This Bible was written for me as the leader of this war. He says that they will be the only people to survive because of him, because he was sent to save them from Helter Skelter. According to Vox.com,
As his warped vision went, while the race war was raging, Manson would lead his followers into a vast underground city, which he called the pit. And this was where his followers would be able to morph into winged elves and other fantastical creatures if they wished. What the heck? Okay, remember they are on hallucinogenics all day, every day. I'm just like, come on. Yeah, but they are also like- This is not Lord of the Rings. Yes.
You know what I'm saying? Yes. Yes. It doesn't make sense. This is ridiculous. It doesn't make sense. And I think even back then people were like, what is he talking about? But also the Manson family was fun to party with. So people didn't care. You know, I can't blame people though for believing it because there's times where Peyton wants to be a vampire and she's pretty convinced that she is a vampire. True. She's not. True. True.
But okay, he's saying this is where we're going to hide out in the pit and you're going to be elves. And I guess for them, it's like, oh, fun. I can be an elf. Well, and also they're like, good, I'll be safe from the race war that's coming. So insane. He says that when the war was done, he would then emerge from underground to take over the world from black people.
because he believed they would win and then would be unfit to rule themselves. So this is what his plan is. This is what he says is going to happen. This was the full vision of Helter Skelter. This becomes a major issue in the murders that we are going to see coming up.
because this was the real reason that Manson tried to make the murders look like they were done by the Black Panthers. If Black Americans refused to start a race war, Manson wanted to start it for them.
So this is where the murder comes in. So did he have ties to like the KKK? Was he involved with the KKK? He was not. Not that I can see he was not involved with the KKK. Because it sounds like two groups of people who are extremely racist and doing bad things. Doing bad things. Horrible things. And here's the thing is he's making this up because...
he's like, oh, I have to go kill white people now to make it look like black people are bad. Which if that doesn't describe racism in and of itself, I don't know what does. So while all of this is happening, Charles is still trying vigorously to further his music career. So he's now talking about Helter Skelter, but he hasn't forgot that he wants to become bigger than the Beatles. In December of 1968, the Beach Boys do record one of the songs that Manson wrote. So there is a Beach Boys song that...
that Charles Manson wrote. It's called, originally it's called Cease to Exist, but they later retitled it to Never Learn Not to Love. And it was released as the B side of their single Bluebirds Over the Mountain. Okay.
Manson did not contribute to this recording at all. He just wrote the song. He was upset that he wasn't credited for this though. It's safe to say that despite having made really good connections, Charles Manson himself was realizing more and more that his music career was just not happening. He had been time, he had been recording, he'd been in with these people
And it wasn't getting anywhere because people like Terry Melcher really thought he was crazy. They were like, oh, I like that you party. I, you know, I like that you have a fun place to be and you have all these girls, but like, I'm not signing you. You're insane. Yes. And while Dennis Wilson had been much more welcoming and open to Manson's ideas and family, Terry Melcher was more private, didn't spend much time hanging out with
them and was turned off by the ranch and by the teachings that Charles Manson was practicing. He was like, hey, you guys are out of your mind. So now this tension between Terry Melcher and Charles Manson was honestly, I mean, probably like this. Terry thinking there is this weird and obnoxious guy who kind of bums off people and is incessantly bothering him. And Charles thinking Terry is a horrible person for not seeing his undeniable talent and treating him like the
that almost everyone else in his immediate life does. He's so used to everyone looking up to him that when Terry is like, yeah, no, I'm not into this, he is offended. Charles had visited Terry at his house on Cielo Drive multiple times.
And on March 23rd, 1969, he decides to go pay Terry another visit to confront him again about the fact that he won't give him a record deal. He's he is just so annoyed. It is bubbling up. His patience is growing thin. He's like, I'm going to drive to his house and I'm going to confront him. But when Charles arrives at the house on Cielo Drive, Terry Melcher is nowhere to be found.
Instead, Charles runs into a photographer who claims that Melcher didn't live there anymore. He had moved somewhere else and this house was now being rented to someone else. Unbeknownst to Manson, Terry's house on Cielo Drive was now being rented to a man named Roman Polinsky and his wife, Sharon Kemp.
Now, Garrett doesn't know who Sharon Tate is. No idea. But your mind is about to be blown about where this case is going again. Sharon Tate Polinsky is an American actress and model.
She played in small television roles before appearing in films and was regularly featured in fashion magazines. In the 1960s, Sharon Tate was held as one of Hollywood's most promising newcomers. So she was like the new girl on the block. I mean, they're in Hollywood, obviously. This was a big music producer's house. It's now being rented to the upcoming It Girl.
Like that is what's happening. She's a model. She's into fashion. She's an actress. She's on TV. And her husband is a big time director. So we are in full Hollywood. And this is who is renting this house when Manson arrives.
So Manson leaves the property feeling even more upset and embarrassed now because he's shown up to talk to Terry and now he looks stupid that Terry doesn't live there anymore and he feels like Terry has now screwed him over even more. At this point, Charles Manson adds a male member, they were already male members, but he adds one named Tex Watson to the family.
Tex is the only person in the family who had ever been to the house on Cielo Drive with Manson and also had somewhat of a criminal past and actually had a drug deal gone bad with a man named Bernard Lotsapapa. That was his nickname. Yeah. So Tex comes to Manson at one point after joining the family. He needs money because he had tried to cheat a drug dealer, Bernard, and
out of $2,500. Now Manson decides because Tex is a member of the family, he's going to grab another man that was a member of the family named TJ and they would all go pay Bernard, the drug dealer, a visit and figure everything out. Like this drug dealer is coming after one of the Manson family members. They're going to go figure it out. Are they even making money at this point? Like do they have cash flow coming in? Like how is all of this working out? Do you know?
Yes, because the people who are living in the Manson family, the men are... Working? Well, they are, you know, stealing cars and dealing drugs and they're living a crime-filled life. That is how... But keep in mind, I mean, they don't have to pay to live on the ranch. So it's not like they had a lot of running water and all this thing. They were living a pretty, I mean...
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the Manson family member, TJ shoots the drug dealer in the chest. Okay. They go back to the Manson family and they're like, okay, so why did you shoot him? And Manson explains to the family, well, Bernard was a black Panther, right?
And this was the first hit in the race war. We were attacked by him. And so we had to shoot him. This is the first sign that Helter Skelter is happening. This is not true. This drug dealer was like, hey, you owe me money. They went, they ambushed him. And that's what happened. And at this point, Manson brings in a man named Bobby to the family for added security for this race war. Now, Bobby was from the Straight Satan's Motorcycle Club.
So he's kind of bringing in these rougher guys to protect the family. On July 25th, 1969, Bobby tells everyone that once again, there was another guy. It was a drug deal gone bad and they needed to go retrieve some money from a man named Gary Hinman who owed them.
The truth was Gary Allen Hinman was a PhD student at UCLA and a music teacher. He had befriended members of the Manson family and allowed them to stay at his home from time to time. And so he was someone that they could take advantage of. Bobby went to his house, robbed him for money and then killed him.
Gary owed him no money. There was no drug deal gone bad. They just like straight went up and killed him. According to Susan Atkins, member of the family, they were trying to get Gary to turn over his assets to the family and they held him captive for several days and tortured him. Holy crap. Trying to get him to do this.
On the last day, Charles Manson arrived and cut off Gary's ear with a sword. He then instructed the family members to kill him and make it look like the crime had been committed by black revolutionaries. - So they're just diving straight into, I don't know how else to explain it. - Yeah. - They're just-- - Murder. - Murder, but it's not, it's like, they're just crazy. - They're doing it for their own benefits, but then framing people with a racist motive.
Bobby stabbed Gary to death and then wrote the words political piggy on a wall in blood and left a Black Panther's paw print to mislead the police, thinking that this was a crime committed by black people. On August 6th, 1969, Bobby was actually arrested by police while trying to flee in Gary's stolen car.
So they instantly find Bobby for the crime. Two days later on August 8th, 1969, Charles sits the family down and announces that the time has come. Helter Skelter is here and the war is on.
Members of the family are ordered to go to the house on Cielo Drive and kill everybody there as gruesomely as they could. Now, as we know, this is the address for Terry Melcher's home. Yeah, I'm confused. But if you remember, it is now being rented by Sharon Tate.
And this is how she gets brought into the story. But why would he want to kill her? Was he jealous? Embarrassed? Upset at Terry? I don't know. He went to the house once and this is who he decided. I mean, she was prominent. She was famous. But I don't know. I mean, does anything make sense that he's doing? So Tex Watson drives...
Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel, and Linda Caspian to the property. Now note here that Charles Manson does not go with them. He stays back at the ranch.
Arriving after midnight, they run into an 18 year old boy named Steven Parent who was visiting the caretaker of the property. They run into him outside of the home. Tex attempts to slash Steven outside of the house with a knife, but Steven puts his arm up in defense. And so the knife ends up cutting his wristwatch off and then severing his tendons in his wrist. Tex then shoots him four times in the chest and abdomen. And the family continues making their way into the house.
So, I mean... Just like killing innocent people just... Right. And you're going to understand why this is so infamous because it is just... It's crazy. It is crazy. It is.
They break into the house and they come upon Sharon Tate. Now I have to mention here, Sharon Tate is eight months pregnant. Oh no. Eight months pregnant. I cannot. Sharon's friend is also at the house and it's her hairstylist. His name is Jay Sebring. Roman's friend and screenwriter, Wojtek Frykowski is there. And then also Frykowski's partner, Abigail Folger, who was the heiress to the Folger coffee fortune. Okay.
This is who's at the house. Working together, the Manson family members, Tex and three women, gather the guests into the living room by tying ropes around their necks.
So there's only four of them? Four members of the Manson family there. I thought there was like more for some reason. Only four have gone to this house and Charles Manson is not with them. Linda Caspian actually remains outside of the house as a lookout. So it's just the rest of them inside the house with the people. While they're doing this, Wojtek Fryoski asked Tex who he was and what he wants. And he replied, I'm the devil and I want your money.
Tex was being fairly rough with Sharon, who is eight months pregnant at this point. And so her hairstylist and friend Jace like says, please stop. Can you stop being so rough with her? She's pregnant. Whatever you want, we'll give it to you. But can you please stop? He was then promptly shot and stabbed several times in front of everyone. Oh no, this is so messed up. It's so messed up. Eventually Vojtech and Abigail Folger actually loosen their ties enough and escape. Okay.
out of the house into the pool area, but they don't make it very far. They're eventually tracked down and killed by Patricia Krenwinkel and Tex Watson. - Did they all have guns? - Guns, knives, everything. Wojtek was stabbed 51 times outside.
So it's back and forth about whether Susan Atkins or Tex Watson back in the house kills Sharon Tate and her unborn child by stabbing her to death. How can you be that brainwashed? Like, how can you be that brainwashed where not only are you going to kill people because someone else told you to. Right. But also you're going to kill a pregnant lady and kill someone and stab them 51 times. That makes zero sense. Right.
And I think Garrett is just hitting the nail on the head here. The thing that is just so mind-boggling about this case is that Charles Manson isn't even with them. He has brainwashed these people enough to murder for him.
Like that, that is the extent. And that is why this case is so infamous because how does this happen? How do these people, how are they loyal enough and how have they gotten to the point where they are going to go to a house where they know nobody, they don't even know who these people are. They're going to go in and they're not just going to kill these people. They are going to brutally slaughter these people. Yeah.
Susan did end up writing the word pig across the front door on the home in Sharon's blood. By the end of the night, five people had been murdered on the property, all at the direction of Charles Manson, who physically had no part in the murders themselves. On August 9th, 1969, the gruesome murder scene on Cielo Drive is discovered by the housekeeper when she arrived for work.
The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department and Los Angeles Police Department work the crime scene where they find all five bodies covered in blood with multiple stab wounds. And the scene, I mean, goes viral for what can go viral back in 1969. Everyone is like, oh my gosh, Sharon Tate, the upcoming actress was eight months pregnant. She was stabbed to death. The pig is written across the door in her blood. I mean, 51 times Wojtek was stabbed. Like people are like, what happened at this house?
The next day, August 10th, 1969, Tex, Susan, Patricia, Linda, and Charles, along with Leslie Van Hooten and Clem Grogan, go for a drive. These are all people from the Manson family. After hearing and watching the news, Charles was upset that it didn't mention a connection to the Black Panthers.
So he's like, whoa, we just did this trying to frame these people and they didn't even get it. And then also they didn't connect Gary's murder to it. So he decides, okay, we're going to plot another set of murders to bring attention to this race war that he was concocting in his mind and the minds of his followers. He instructs Linda Caspian to drive to a house at 3301 Waverly Drive in Los Angeles and
They tie up all of the occupants in the house who ended up being supermarket executive Leno LaBianca and his wife Rosemary. Tex stabs Leno and then Rosemary as well. Patricia also stabs Rosemary. Leslie Van Hooten was then instructed to also stab Rosemary. So everyone that goes is instructed to partake in this almost ritualistic killing. Oh, this is so weird.
She was ended up being stabbed 41 times because each person took a turn. They're like all possessed. Right. They used a kitchen steak knife and carving fork from the victim's home. Patricia then wrote a rise and death to pigs on the walls, along with Helter Skelter on the refrigerator door in Leno's blood. Helter was misspelled. I assume at this point that the cops know that it's not.
Black Panthers and something's going on. Well, I, yes, I don't think they ever thought that it was, but obviously because they've never, I mean, they won't, they're not going to do something like that. Right. But I do need to quickly mention that these deaths before they were solved were
started the spread of satanic panic. And this is something that we've heard a lot, but everyone thought these were ritualistic with the writings and the blood and the messages and being stabbed 41 times. And there were different stabbers and everyone was like, oh my gosh, Satan worshipers are here and killing people. And this really did start the satanic panic, which then went on to be in the true crime scene for years to come. The LaBianca murders were discovered later by Rosemary's son from
from another marriage. So her son found them. According to family members, there was another attempted murder that night by the Manson family, but Charles mansion had actually sent them to the wrong apartment. So the plan was aborted. So after doing this, they then went to try to do it to someone else. After this, the LAPD told the press that they had ruled out any connections between the Cielo drive and the law Bianca murders. And I think, I don't know if this was on purpose or why, but,
But imagine Manson's reaction to hearing that. He'd probably freak out. On August 16th, 1969, the ranch is raided in a major auto theft ring where they were accused of stealing cars. Illegal weapons are seized, but due to warrant issues, the charges are dropped.
When Charles Manson was fingerprinted and booked at this point, though, he provided police with the name Charles M. Manson, a.k.a. Jesus Christ or God. No, he did freaking not do that. Yes, this is what he had under his booking name. Oh, he's a narcissistic psychopath. After this, connections start being made by police. I mean, between all three murders, the Manson family
family was well known so it really didn't take long for police to find one person who knew a member who had told someone something and then boom they're like okay the Manson family did this on October 12th 1969 Charles Manson is arrested at Barker Ranch while trying to evade authority so a different ranch and
On November 30th, 1969, Tex Watson is apprehended in Texas. Susan Atkins was actually already in prison at this point for something else. Warrants are issued for Patricia and Lisa in the Sharon Tate case.
And Susan Atkins at this point makes a deal with prosecutors, including a book deal for her cooperation. So I'm also a little confused because what about all the other members though? Like did only some of them go to kill people and the other ones were just chilling? Yes. And also only some of them knew about the murders. So it wasn't like,
They were telling the whole family that this is what they were doing. Just the main people, the top people. I mean, these women, Patricia, Susan, these were one of the first girls that joined. So they were like the top of the pecking order in the cult. And so they were the only ones who knew and they were the ones who committed out, committed the acts.
But not all of the Manson family even knew that they were doing this. On December 8th, 1969, Charles Manson, Tex Watson, Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel and Lisa Caspian are indicted for the murders of Tate and her friends at Cielo Drive. The grand jury also indicts the five of them, plus Van Hooten, for the LaBianca murders.
On December 19th, 1969, Life Magazine does a cover story on Charles Manson. And this becomes infamous. It led to nationwide notoriety as America finds out about the Manson cult. So this Life Magazine basically comes forward and says, there's this cult in California who was masking themselves under the free love and
Like he believed there was this race war happening. He was racist. It was called Helter Skelter and they murdered all these people. And so this just goes like insane. I mean, obviously you knew the name Charles Manson. I just didn't know any of this. Right. On June 15th, 1970, the trial begins.
And Lisa Caspian was actually granted immunity in exchange for testimony with details from the Tate murders, which is how we knew everything that happened that night. She had acted as lookout as well. So she didn't actually participate in any. I mean, she didn't physically kill any of them. She was there, though.
Lisa, Charles, Susan, and Patricia were charged with seven counts of murder and one of conspiracy. Van Hooten was charged with two counts of murder and one conspiracy for her participation in the LaBianca murders. Charles Manson appeared in court with an X carved into his forehead for the first day of his testimony and said when he arrived, I have X'd myself from your world. I think it's so funny that he still...
Because I fully believe that, and I mean, I haven't heard a ton about his story or about him, other than what you've told me, but I fully believe he's like,
he knows he's putting on this persona and he's still playing this character up and so just dude drop it at this point i'm so glad you said like what do you i am so glad you said this because i think he's smart enough he's smart enough he knew life magazine had come out there were people who knew everyone knew charles manson at this point so when he showed up he said i am about to play the role of crazy cult leader yep that is what he did so he literally carved an x into his head and said i've
X'd myself from your world. Oh my gosh. The following day, Lisa, Susan, and Patricia, who are the women that are being charged, show up to court with an X on their foreheads. So they are playing into the
I don't know if they're playing into it. They are still in the cult. They are still, I don't know if they're brainwashed. I don't know if they're playing into it, but they go, our leader did this. We're going to do this. The Manson family members on the outside who were still like in the cult got into trouble multiple times for involving themselves in the trial, threatening people involved. They often carried visible knives, making the entire courtroom uncomfortable. So they,
Even though it's just these members of the Manson family, the Manson family cult members are still surrounding the courthouse saying he's a prophet. They're still all in on this. They're coming into court...
praising him everything on October 5th 1970 Manson attempts to attack the judge when he was denied a request to cross-examine a witness he had to be wrestled to the ground and removed from the courtroom along with all of the female defendants who when this happened began chanting in Latin
So as he's trying to attack the judge, they stand up and begin chanting in line. Okay. On March 4th, 1971, Charles Manson shows up to court with a bloody swastika carved into his forehead. This dude is insane. And a shaved head. So he had really long hair. I don't know if you've ever seen a picture of him, but he comes with a shaved head. He says, I am the devil and the devil always has a bald head. After this,
the girls from the Charles Manson cult, including ones that are still on the outside, arrived to court in support with shaved heads and crosses on their foreheads. So he wouldn't fool on like white supremacists. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And his followers who are still on the outside are sitting outside of the court in circles, chanting with shaved heads,
crosses on their head like it is a full spectacle. Was this all just because he was a racist? Because I feel like obviously he is, but what made him go...
that route. Like, you know what I'm saying? Right. Because did we see signs of this beforehand? No, not really. Or was it just like, oh, this is an easy route for me to play. I think he was a racist. And I also think that there were other racists around him at this time in California. And so, I mean, I don't think it's that weird that maybe he got involved in this white supremacy. I'm sure it was happening. I'm sure it was rampant. On March 29th, 1971, all four defendants, Charles, Susan, Patricia, and Lisa were convicted and sentenced to death.
Eventually Tex Watson would be convicted as well in a separate trial. Manson was also found guilty of killing a man named Donald Shorty Shea who was at the ranch and he worked as a stuntman and a horse wrangler. The reason he murdered him was because he was married to a black woman.
The Manson murder trial was the longest murder trial in American history at this time, lasting nine and a half months. The jury had been sequestered for 225 days. In 1972, Lynette, who had... Squeaky. Squeaky. Remember her? One of the very first girls. She was never involved in the murders, but she had supported Charles all the way through.
She was tied in 1972 to a double homicide, but later released for lack of evidence. On September 5th, 1975,
She attempts to assassinate President Gerald Ford in Sacramento. No way. I did not know that. She was dressed in a red robe and armed with a Colt M1911.45 caliber semi-automatic pistol. Did Charles tell her to? We have no idea. That's assassinating the president. It's like, oh, I mean. I just think it goes to show that even after Charles was in prison, his followers, I mean, were pretty messed up.
And some of the heavy ones followed him. And I don't know if she had been in correspondence with Charles and this was a command of him or if she was now doing this and still participating in a cult. I am unaware.
She was arrested and convicted to life in prison. Obviously you can't attempt to assassinate the president while in prison. Charles Manson provided several interviews as America was obsessed. They were confounded. They were confused. They were fascinated. They couldn't understand. They wanted to know about his cult and everything that had happened, which is how we get a lot of this information. Someone attempted to murder Charles Manson while he was in prison by lighting him on fire. He received second and third degree burns to 20% of his body, but he lived.
Most of Charles Manson's interviews from prison are difficult to watch.
Because at this point he is not all the way there. Like he, his interviews are not making sense. He's not getting a full sentence out. He's talking in different voices. He was eventually diagnosed with borderline personality disorder with paranoid ideation. A lot of people who knew Manson or served time with him would go on to profit off of it. Like I served time with Manson. Now I'm going to write a book, that type of thing. On September 24th, 2009,
Susan Atkins was diagnosed with brain cancer and died of natural causes while in prison. So because they were in California, they were sentenced to death. But then obviously everyone that was sentenced to death in California at a certain point, the death penalty wasn't a thing there anymore. So they just got life in prison. In 2014, Charles Manson got engaged to a 26 year old
who he nicknamed as Star, of course. That marriage was called off though after Charles alleged that she only wanted to marry him so she could then use his corpse as a tourist attraction after his death and make money from it. Oh my gosh. Manson got a swastika tattooed on his forehead in prison so he did not change his ways. He decided
died at the age of 83 in prison in 2017. Oh, he lived a long time. Yeah. Lynette, who attempted to assassinate the president, was paroled and she currently lives in New York. Oh, so she's like... She's out. Wow. Charles Manson had several children, as we know, and others claim to be the children of the women in the family because a lot of the women in...
In the Charles Manson family got pregnant while living there, but it was hard to tell without a DNA test who was the father. So a lot of them said, oh, I have Manson's baby. And then later it would be proved that it wasn't his. Manson's first child was Charles Manson Jr. Like we said, he actually took his own life at age 37 and died in Colorado. And I'm including this because you have to understand that there were children, right?
who were affected by this. And I don't want to forget about them. Jason Freeman, who was a former WWE wrestler who goes by the name Freebird and an oil rig worker is the son of Charles J. White, which is Charles Manson Jr., who actually changed his name before he took his own life. He also inherited Manson's body in 2017, which he had cremated. This was done via a court ruling based on the evidence of their correspondence.
Valentin Michael Manson, who was born in 1968, was Manson and Mary Bruner's son. Charles Manson's son gives exclusive interviews. He does it on YouTube. He later changed his name and he was raised by his grandparents.
He remains single and I mean, he seems to live a pretty average life. Charles Manson and his cult destruction has actually lived in infamy forever. As we know, we all know the name Charles Manson. I think the thing that is so intriguing about it all is that he was able to direct and command people to kill for him. And how powerful do you have to be to get there?
He was able to use drugs and hide behind the free love movement to get a following. Manipulation that he had shown since his early days was prevalent in his cult days. And then the fact that so many Hollywood elites were involved in this story, I think is also what makes it infamous. And that even after Charles was arrested for the last time, his followers remained loyal for a while until it kind of slowly died off.
I want to mention that sometimes Charles Manson lives in infamy while people forget about his victims. I think it's very easy to happen. I'm going to end the case with listing the victims. That was Bernard Crowe, Gary Allen Hinman, Sharon Tate and her unborn child, Jay Sebring, Abigail Folger, Wojtek Frykowski, Stephen Parent, and Leno and Rosemary LaBianca.
Even though it was a two-parter, that was the very still condensed story of Charles Manson, his history, and his cult and the murders they committed. Yeah, I just think to convince other people to kill for you is... It's a whole new level. It's something else because I actually think it's easier to probably...
You know, like the different cult stories that they all kill themselves on one night or something. I feel like that's probably easier than it is to convince someone to kill someone else. And not just assassinate someone. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. To do what they did multiple times. But they were so far brainwashed and they were probably on drugs during the whole thing. Oh, yeah. They were so far gone. That's not an excuse. Not an excuse. I'm just saying that like... We're trying to understand how this could even happen. Correct, yes. Because I like to think that...
that a human being is not capable of this, but I mean, they are. - Clearly, clearly. I mean, we have a podcast about it. - Exactly. - I think the reasons this case is fascinating is obvious, but like I said, I sometimes feel like as much as the victims are remembered, at the same time, they are overshadowed because of just the extent of this case.
And so I do just want to end the case with everyone thinking about them and thinking that they had real lives, they were real people, they're not just a story. And also there were children who came out of this who were affected as well. And that is how we're going to end the case. Okay, you guys, thank you so much. This was a fun one. We don't do two-parters often, but sometimes I do feel like they are necessary.
Thank you for the constant support. Again, a reminder that there should be a second episode coming out this week, a bonus episode with a twist that we are really excited about. So stay tuned for that and we will see you next time. I love it. I hate it. Goodbye.