EP. 180 : PENNSYLVANIA - The "Dear Zachary" Case
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Max Bankman, I'm the new doctor. Welcome aboard the Odyssey. ABC Thursdays. This ship is heaven. We're tending to our passengers. I'm in. From 911 executive producer Ryan Murphy comes a splashy new drama on a luxury cruise ship with Joshua Jackson and Don Johnson. It's your job to keep everyone alive. She's in V-fit. One, two, three. Clear. Clear.

I have a pulse. You're going to be okay. Dr. Odyssey, Thursdays, 9, 8 central on ABC and stream on Hulu.

This episode is brought to you by Peacock and the new original docuseries, Making Manson. In 1969, Charles Manson and his followers committed seven brutal murders in Los Angeles that would make him infamous. Now, with access to over 100 hours of phone recordings between an incarcerated Manson and his closest confidant, a new story will unfold with shocking revelations from the man himself. Making Manson streams November 19th only on Peacock.

Warning, the following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects. Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children. This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.

It's been said that becoming a grandparent is one of life's greatest joys. And in the early 2000s, David and Kate Bagby were learning this very truth. The birth of their grandson Zachary completely changed their lives. And on this day in particular,

They watched in awe as the one-year-old playfully splashed in the water at their community pool. For most families, it would have been the perfect afternoon. You have baby Zachary, his doting grandparents,

and Zachary's mom, Shirley Turner. Three generations of family working and laughing together is always a beautiful thing. But there was a dark cloud that loomed over this joyous occasion. As Shirley was splashing around in the water with her son, David and Kate couldn't help but feel a deep hatred for her because about a year prior, Shirley had murdered their son,

Zachary's father, Andrew Bagby. And despite facing murder charges, Shirley still somehow had custody of Zachary. David and Kate loved their grandson more than anything in this world. He was the last piece of their son that they had on this earth. So on this day, they pushed their hatred aside and put a smile on their face.

Because if they wanted to protect Zachary, preserve their son's legacy, and keep their family together, they had to play nice with their son's killer. This case is truly one of the most frustrating and heartbreaking stories I've ever heard. Yet at the center of it,

are two of the most dedicated parents you can imagine. So this is the story of Andrew Bagby. I'm Courtney Browen. And I'm Colin Browen. And you're listening to Murder in America. The story we're about to tell you is one of tragedy and heartbreak, but it's also a love story at heart.

And that love story began unexpectedly on the sunny shores of Long Beach, California. Kate Barnard was born in England, but in 1967 she moved to California to work as a travel nurse. Upon moving to the States, her main goal was to build her career. She planned to travel the world working as an OB/GYN nurse before settling back in the countryside of Devon to live out the rest of her life.

As she started her journey in California, she had no intentions of getting married or even finding love for that matter. But life has a funny way of surprising you. In late 1967, she and a fellow nurse decided to join two local navy men on a date to Disneyland. She and her friend were mostly excited about not having to pay for their own tickets, but Kate had no idea that the man she was about to meet on this date to Disney would change her life forever.

On that day, sparks were flying between Kate and David Bagby. According to his book, Dance with the Devil, a memoir of murder and loss, David was, quote, terrified of women and had no idea how to talk to them, end quote.

But with Kate, it was different. In fact, after their trip to Disney, he and Kate went on 13 dates within a two-week period, one nearly every day. And they were completely smitten. Kate talked about his ability to quote Shakespeare, and David loved her vibrant personality and the way she made him laugh.

Their love story seemed to be written in the stars. And just five months after their first date, the two got married in a small ceremony. It was the start of their lives together. And soon after, the newlyweds would move to San Diego.

From the very beginning of their marriage, they both wanted kids. Unfortunately for them, that was easier said than done. For several years, David and Kate struggled to conceive a child. Kate even partook in several fertility treatments, desperate to have a kid that she could give all of her love to. And then finally, in the year 1973, their wish was granted.

David and Kate were pregnant with a little boy. Their miracle would make his way into the world on September 25th, 1973 in Sunnyvale, California, and they would name him Andrew David Bagby. From that moment on, David and Kate's entire world was changed in the best way possible, and they loved Andrew with every fiber of their being.

Andrew was raised in Santa Clara Valley in the Bay Area of California. And from the beginning, he was the type of kid who everyone loved. Andrew always had a big group of friends. Friends that he had throughout his entire life up until his death.

Now, a lot of the information from this episode comes from the film that his childhood best friend, Kurt Kuhn, made about his life and death titled Dear Zachary: A Letter to a Son About His Father. We highly recommend watching the film after this episode if you'd like to put faces to names and truly see how loved Andrew was. But growing up, Andrew and his best friend Kurt often filmed movies and comedy sketches together. They had a camera and a huge imagination.

which made for some funny videos together throughout the years. In their films, Andrew liked to play the villains, which everyone agreed he enjoyed because it was so opposing to his true personality. It also helped that it gave him a free pass to swear in front of his parents. Because in the end, it wasn't him cussing, it was his character.

David and Kate definitely had their hands full with a bunch of teenage boys filming gangster movies in their house, but they loved it. The Bagby's welcomed the creative outlet for Andrew and his friends, and in fact, on more than one occasion, the two parents were even roped into the productions and given roles, playing characters straight from teenagers' minds like evil teachers and bosses. And I can heavily relate to this because when I was younger, I used to make movies all

All the time. I actually broke, I think it was five of my family's cameras when I was growing up. I had an obsession with film. I used to make zombie movies with my friends. My parents would help out. They would build blood cannons and do special effects zombie makeup with me. It was a very, very fun period of my life that was really formative for me. And I'm so blessed that I had family and friends that supported what I wanted to do, even as far as back then. But anyways, let's keep going.

- Son of a bitch, you little shit! - You're a pain in the ass. - You little bastard! - Does that give you the right to go yelling about your penis on the air? - By all accounts, David and Kate Bagby were the exact type of people who should be parents. They loved and nurtured Andrew deeply, had open, heartwarming conversations with him. And at the same time, they pushed him to be independent and hardworking. They raised him to be a good kid

with strong morals while also giving him the freedom to become whoever he wanted to be. And as the years went on, their parenting style clearly paid off. When Andrew reached adulthood, he had a promising future ahead of him. Just shy of 23, Andrew was engaged to a woman named Heather

who he had been friends with since middle school. The two had a beautiful relationship that his parents approved of, and they fed off each other's energy really well. Andrew was known to be a kind, gregarious, and at times self-deprecating man who was wildly intelligent. And Heather supported him, made him laugh, and urged him towards a bright future.

Andrew had known he wanted to be a doctor from a young age, but soon after graduating, he was rejected from the college he wanted to attend.

But not wanting him to be discouraged, Heather showed him a brochure for another college on a whim. Except for, there was a catch. The college was in Canada. Memorial University School of Medicine, otherwise known as MUN, is about as far away as Andrew could get in North America from where he grew up in California. For reference, there are no direct flights from San Francisco to St. John, Newfoundland.

and traveling there from California takes about 10 hours of flying. But despite this, Andrew was interested in Memorial University School of Medicine. St. John's is often compared to San Francisco. The downtown is laced with steep hills, colorful row buildings, and fog from the nearby ocean. Originally founded as a fishing port, it's a city that's relied on the ocean and the hardiness of its people to survive.

Now, many people would probably be turned off by the idea of moving to a place so isolated and cold, but Andrew leapt at the opportunity to try something new.

In the summer of 1996, he and his fiancee Heather packed their bags and moved over 3,000 miles to attend MUN's medical school. They both had a strong desire to build their lives together as they became doctors. And during that first year of school, they made lifelong friends and a ton of memories.

Unfortunately, with all of their new discoveries, they also discovered something that was a huge loss for both of them, that he and Heather weren't as compatible as they originally thought. In the summer of 1997, while they were in California for summer break, the two decided to end their relationship. But by all accounts, the breakup was amicable

and the two remained close friends for the rest of Andrew's life. But breakups are hard on everyone. Andrew's parents, David and Kate, loved Heather. In fact, when Andrew went back to MUN to continue his studies, Heather actually lived with them for a while before she ultimately went back to school. But that's the kind of people David and Kate are. They not only took care of Andrew, but also as friends whenever they needed it. And to this day, 30 years later, Heather still keeps in contact with Kate and David.

But following this, Andrew and Heather continued their studies within the small tight-knit community of MUN. And you know how after a breakup, there's usually a friend breakup that follows? Like half of the friend group sides with one person and the other half sides with the other? Well, that wasn't the case here. After Andrew and Heather's breakup,

they still hung out with each other in the same group of friends. And eventually, they both moved on and found other people while maintaining a friendship with each other.

However, while all of Andrew's friends loved Heather, the next girl that came into his life wasn't as accepted. Her name was Shirley Jane Turner. When Shirley was first introduced into their group, she was a family medicine intern at St. John's Medical System, and she was definitely an acquired taste. Upon meeting Shirley, Andrew's friends were a little confused. For one,

Shirley was 12 years older than Andrew. She was also twice divorced with three children and her oldest child was only nine years younger than Andrew. So the age difference was a bit shocking to Andrew's friends and family. Now people date older people all the time. It isn't necessarily a bad thing, but Andrew had only ever dated people his own age.

So when he started dating this older woman, everyone expected her to be incredible. Surely she had such a great personality, they just couldn't resist each other. But that wasn't really the case. Andrew's friends would later say that Shirley and Andrew's personalities didn't seem to match.

And really, her personality didn't match with anyone in their group. According to Andrew's friends and family, Shirley had a habit of saying crude and inappropriate things in the company of others. She was also needy and could be explosive.

which was the very opposite of Andrew's calm, welcoming demeanor. In the documentary Dear Zachary, some of Andrew's closest friends gave insight into why Andrew may have been with someone who seemed unsuitable for him. Andrew, you know you can do a lot better. He said, "Oh no, I really can't." He'd poke fun at himself all the time. Yeah, he would. He'd always... He'd say, "He's a short, portly little fella." Yeah.

Now, soon after Andrew and Shirley started dating, Andrew went back home to California to visit his family. And before leaving, he had given Shirley his parents' home phone number so they could keep in touch while he was gone. And sure enough, while there, Shirley called. Andrew's mother Kate was actually the one who answered the phone. It was their first time talking that day, though it would be far, far from their last.

Kate claims that she introduced herself and told Shirley that Andrew wasn't home, but Shirley didn't seem to mind. She hardly drew a breath as she launched into her own life story and talked to Kate for over an hour. Having never met her, Kate was shocked and didn't exactly know how to leave the conversation.

After eventually hanging up, she told David, who was curious about Andrew's new girlfriend, she seems nice enough, but she's hard to end a conversation with. But little did Kate know, this would soon become a habit for Shirley. Before long, Shirley was calling them all the time, just to talk to Andrew's parents, and she would keep them on the phone for hours at a time as she rambled. Eventually, they started coming up with excuses for why they were hanging up, and they even began to screen their calls so that they could avoid Shirley's long rants.

But Kate and David never imagined that Shirley was dangerous. Sure, she was a little annoying, but in the end, I'm sure they were thankful that their son's girlfriend liked them enough to even want to talk to them. Shirley was also nice, charming and intelligent. And more importantly, they could tell that she really loved their son, which is all they could have ever wanted for him. Now, in the beginning of relationships,

People tend to be on their best behavior. They show all of their good cards, tucking the bad cards away for as long as they possibly can. So in the beginning, Andrew didn't see Shirley's red flags. However, slowly, over time, she began to show her true colors. Shirley Turner was obsessive and jealous. And when she wasn't happy, she made it everyone's business.

Over time, Andrew's friends couldn't stand to be around her. But at the end of the day, they loved Andrew and they had to support him, especially because in May of 2000, Andrew completed a huge life accomplishment.

He graduated from medical school. After years of dedication and hard work, and being so far away from his friends and family, he had finally made a life and career for himself. Following the graduation ceremony, Andrew and his friends celebrated his accomplishment by throwing him some parties. And Shirley was right there by his side. Andrew's ex-fiancee, Heather, was also at these parties. Now, like we mentioned, even though they called off their engagement,

the two stayed really good friends throughout the years. So of course, she was going to be there to celebrate his graduation. Not to mention by this point, Heather was in a serious relationship with someone else. So she was definitely no threat to Andrew and Shirley's relationship. But Shirley didn't see it that way. In fact, during the graduation party, Shirley actually brought Heather into a separate room and angrily told her quote,

"You can try all you want, but he doesn't want you. He wants me." As you can imagine, Heather was dumbfounded. She was madly in love with her own partner at the time, and she had no romantic interest in Andrew whatsoever. Heather reassured Shirley of this, but she couldn't figure out what caused this sudden hostility. It was unsettling. And from this point forward, Heather tried to keep her distance from Shirley Turner.

The summer of 2000 was a very important time for Andrew. It was a time for him to begin his residency in medicine. Now, Andrew wasn't sure what direction he wanted to go in, but he ultimately decided to pursue a career in surgery. So that summer, he ended up taking a surgical residency in the United States in Syracuse, New York.

It was a really exciting time for him. It was the start of his prosperous career, and his girlfriend, Shirley Turner, was also given a great opportunity. By that point, she had already finished her residency and she had just been offered a position at a family practice in Sac City, Iowa. However, the only issue was that Sac City and Syracuse are about 16 hours away from one another by car, so she and Andrew would have to try long distance.

but together they decided that it would be worth it so that summer they both packed up their bags and started their new lives in different states here in america now long distance can really put a relationship to the test but surprisingly andrew and shirley's relationship was handling it well

According to Andrew's friends and family, Shirley visited him in Sarah Cruz all the time. And apparently, Andrew really welcomed the visits. Andrew was a people person and a kind soul who loved to laugh, enjoy himself, and make others feel comfortable. But during his surgical residency in New York,

he discovered that there wasn't much room for him to be himself or to connect with others. Residency is an incredibly stressful time for people in medicine, and it definitely isn't for everyone, especially if you feel like you're not in the right place. Andrew's closest friends reported that during his time here,

He was miserable. He was thousands of miles away from his family and childhood friends, and nearly 2,000 miles away from the community he had built in St. John's. Andrew had had this idea of what his residency would be like, and none of it was meeting his expectations. In the end,

He was lonely in New York. So of course, when Shirley was offering to come visit him all the time, he welcomed the company. But this is when we really start to see Shirley cement herself into his life. With her new job at a family practice, Shirley had the money to visit him all the time. And she was obsessed with him. So she drove to New York any chance she could. But Andrew wasn't complaining. She was a link to a better time in his life.

in a comfort that he desperately needed at the time.

Eventually, by 2001, Andrew was so miserable in his surgical residency, he decided to switch to family practice, where he was a much better fit. But this career change also meant he had to move. He ended up taking a residency in Latrobe, Pennsylvania, and almost immediately, Andrew's friends and family could tell a huge difference in him. Andrew was happy there. He quickly found a core group of friends who he loved, and he even made a huge impression on his community.

In fact, after just a few weeks working at the family practice, people were coming in and asking for him by name. Finally, he had found exactly where he belonged. But with this new chapter of life, he soon began to realize that Shirley Turner was not the one for him.

Sure, when he was miserable in New York, he liked having her around because he didn't have anyone else. But now that he had found his calling and a new community, the thought of being with her just wasn't appealing anymore. So, slowly, he started distancing himself from her, but surely wasn't having it. She continued to visit him in Latrobe and grew irate when she wasn't involved in his plans.

In July of 2001, Andrew attended the wedding of one of his closest childhood friends and he didn't invite Shirley to be his plus one. Now when she found out about this, she was furious. In fact, on the day she found out, she called him over 30 times in a row. When Andrew finally answered,

He told Shirley to leave him alone. Andrew's parents, David and Kate, would later say that at the wedding, they couldn't help but notice that Andrew was blinking a lot ever since he was a young boy. That had been his way of showing distress and anxiety. It was clear to them that he was incredibly uneasy about something, but they couldn't put their finger on what.

However, soon enough, the Bagby's got their first good look at what may have been the cause. That September, Shirley visited their home in California with some colleagues who had attended MUN, and they all stayed with them for a few days. But during this visit, Shirley made several strange claims.

One night at dinner, she announced to the Bagbys and her friends that she wanted to have another baby and that she wanted the father to be a doctor. Now, obviously she was talking about Andrew since he was her boyfriend and he was a doctor. Now, her friends knew that she already had three children whom she barely ever saw. So after dinner that night, they all tried convincing her that it wasn't a great idea.

But soon after, more red flags arose. You see, throughout this trip to California, David and Kate had been happily taking care of bills for the group. But on the last night of the trip, Shirley offered to pay for everyone's dinner at a fondue restaurant. Kate mentioned that it was expensive, insisting that Shirley didn't have to pay, but Shirley stated it wasn't a problem. And then she started making jokes about "newfies",

Now, though the term doesn't have the same magnitude it did then with the general population, many people still consider that word to be a slur. During the mid to late 20th century, Newfie was used by American and Canadian forces stationed in Newfoundland to demean the locals. They used it to describe someone who was lazy, poor, and uneducated, and this usage continued for many decades.

Some friends who were with Shirley were offended by her use of the phrase and told her that they didn't think her jokes were funny. And in response, Shirley ran to the bathroom crying. Now, Kate didn't want to see Shirley upset, so she went into the bathroom to check on her, and when she did, she found Shirley sobbing on the shoulder of a complete stranger. When Shirley looked up from her sobs, she started screaming at Kate that her friends were using them as a cheap hotel.

The whole situation was bizarre, and soon after, when Shirley finally calmed down enough to return to the table, the bill came and she commented: "Oh, I suppose you expect the rich doctor to pay for this." From here, Kate and David put their share on the table and the group left for what I can only imagine was an incredibly awkward car ride home. The Bagbys were finally getting an understanding as to why their son didn't seem happy in his relationship, but they never could have imagined what would happen next.

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Which brings us to the week of October 26th, 2001. Like we mentioned, Andrew and Shirley's relationship had been going downhill for several months. But by the fall, Andrew was ready to call it quits. They lived in different states and had completely different lives. Andrew's life was moving in one direction.

and he no longer saw Shirley in his future. But Shirley was not one to take no for an answer. So during the last week of October, she traveled from Iowa to Pennsylvania to visit Andrew. And according to the people who lived around him,

There was a lot of arguing in his house that week. Apparently, Shirley got word that Andrew had been planning to go on a date with a radiology clerk and she became irate. Shirley even called the clerk twice, at one point leaving a message where she said, quote, "'Ask Dr. Bagby about the beautiful blonde lady doctor he's been seen with,' end quote."

and then she claimed that Andrew liked to hurt people. And by this point, Andrew was done. On November 3rd, 2001, he took Shirley to the airport and over lunch before her flight, he officially ended their relationship.

From there, Shirley got on a flight and flew back home to Council Bluffs, Iowa. When Andrew left the airport that day, he felt a weight lift off his shoulders. This breakup had been on his mind for a while, and now it was finally over. From here, he could continue on with his life without Shirley Turner.

- Three days later was November 6th, 2001. That morning before the sun was able to peak over the horizon, a local made his way over to Keystone State Park in Derry, Pennsylvania. Many people come to this park to walk the trails, sit by the lake,

and enjoy the beautiful landscape. It's a very peaceful place, but not on this morning. At around 6:00 AM, this local made their way to the park to begin their daily walk. However, seconds after entering, they would come across a site that they would never be able to forget.

Near the entrance, lying face down on the cold November ground, was the body of a deceased male wearing scrubs. He had clearly been there for several hours as he was coated in white frost.

Horrified, the local quickly called 911 and before they knew it, first responders were on the scene. It wouldn't take them long to learn of the man's identity as his wallet and ID were in his back pocket. The man in front of them was 28-year-old Andrew Bagby. Andrew was also lying directly next to his vehicle and his cell phone was still inside.

buzzing away as people were trying to get in touch with him. When Andrew didn't show up for work that morning, his colleagues were immediately concerned. His supervisor, Dr. Simpson, called Andrew, praying that he had just slept in. But at the end of the day, he knew better. You've reached Andrew Baggs. We received a message at the time. Thank you. Hey, Baggs, it's Clark. Just called to say hello and see where you're at. I'm going to stop by your house here in about five minutes and meet you at the South Shore.

Andrew's colleagues repeatedly drove to his house, called his phone, and even emailed him in a desperate attempt to contact him. Then at around 9:00 AM, their fears were realized. An ER doctor gently approached Dr. Simpson and told him that a body in scrubs had just been found

at the Keystone State Park. For the remainder of the day, everyone stayed glued to the TV. They knew in their gut that it was Andrew, but in spite of their intuition, they couldn't let go of the hope that somehow they were wrong. Eventually the news would come and all of Andrew's colleagues gathered around in a conference room

From there, they were told that it was indeed Andrew Bagby found at the Keystone State Park and that he had died from five gunshot wounds. There was one shot to his face, one to his chest, one to his neck, and two in his butt, all at relatively close range.

The previous night, Andrew's mother Kate had tried to reach him. They spoke several times a week, and Kate enjoyed telling Andrew just how proud of him she was. On November 6th, Kate had no idea that her son had passed. Looking back on that morning, it's heartbreaking to think about those few hours of naivety before her entire world turned upside down. Kate was expecting to hear from Andrew sooner or later, but when her phone rang that morning, she was surprised to see that it was a call from Shirley Turner.

Upon answering, Shirley asked Kate if she had spoken to Andrew recently, because she hadn't heard from him and she was concerned. But Kate brushed it off, saying Andrew was probably just busy and he would likely get in touch soon. Then after that, she hung up the phone. However, Kate couldn't help but think about how strange it was that Shirley would call her from work,

Then, about 30 minutes later, she saw that Shirley was calling again. And this time she was frantic. Shirley told Kate that the police had contacted her boss in Iowa in regard to Andrew, but they didn't give her any details on what was going on. And it's at this moment when Kate began to panic.

The police don't call someone's loved ones unless something horrible happened. Kate begged Shirley to call Andrews Hospital to ask what was going on, but Shirley refused, saying that she had a "history" with the switchboard operator.

It wasn't until 2.30 p.m. that Kate got the call that would change her life forever. A police officer told Kate that she needed to call the coroner's office in Latrobe. Kate couldn't believe what she was hearing. She sobbed, asking if her son was dead. But the officer just responded with, quote, I can't tell you, but it's dreadful news. From there, Kate had to go through several more people to get answers. Since it was a weekend, the

The coroner's office was closed and she was told she would have to call the next day. But as you will see, Kate is a very headstrong, hardworking woman and she wasn't going to take no for an answer. Eventually, she was given the number of someone who gave her the news that Andrew Bagby had been murdered under suspicious circumstances. Her baby boy,

her only son, and undeniably the center of her world, was gone forever. And now she had to do the next hardest thing, which was to call her husband with the horrible news. At the time, David was at work, but through sobs, she told him that their son was dead. On the other end of the line, she listened helplessly as her husband of over 30 years unraveled.

David threw the phone, began to scream, and repeatedly punched and kicked a filing cabinet in his private office. He then picked up the phone and told Kate that he would drive to her office to get her. Having had a few more minutes than him to process the news, Kate was able to think a little more clearly. She told David that there was no way he should be driving, and that they should both get rides from someone back to their house.

So from there, David walked to his boss's office, trying to maintain his composure. When the door closed behind him, he clasped into sobs, telling his boss, "Andrew is dead. Can you take me home?" And of course, he did. On the way home, David couldn't speak. He was only able to give hand directions to get to his house. As he squirmed and sobbed in the passenger seat, the agony was too much for his body to contain. He didn't know what to do with himself.

When he finally arrived home, the Bagby's neighbors and close family friends had rushed to their house so they wouldn't have to be alone. David's coworkers stayed as well, helping take care of all the logistics that they simply couldn't handle. This makeshift support group booked the Bagby's tickets to Pennsylvania, got their hotel settled,

and agreed to take care of the house for as long as they were gone. But the next few days were a horrible blur for them. However, the one thing that was very clear was their plan for the upcoming week. On the flight to Pennsylvania, David and Kay both decided that they were going to get their son's body, bring him home for a burial, and then after that, they were going to kill themselves.

They both wholeheartedly agreed that they no longer wanted to be in a world without their son. As they sat on the red-eye making this heartbreaking pact, a fight actually broke out amongst passengers over the number of pillows available on the plane. In his book, David noted that this was a life-changing moment for him, watching people fight over something so trivial while his entire world had just come to an end.

When David and Kate landed, their first stop was the mortuary. In Dear Zachary, David recounts: "And then he took us down a stairway, gurney at the other end, with a white sheet over a body, and went over to him. And when we could see his face, I said, 'It's really him.' I kissed him and held him and

Kate kissed him and held him and kissed him some more. Tears were dropping on him, of course, and Kate went to wipe one of those away off his cheek. And a plug came out where he'd been shot in the left cheek. What bothers Kate is that she did not go with him to the crematorium and stay with him right to the end. He went from the funeral home to the crematorium all alone in plastic bags with only his head sticking out. Come on, Kate.

David and Kate were devastated, but another emotion they felt was indescribable anger. Someone out there murdered their son and they hated whoever was responsible.

In the documentary, David said: "I was so fucking mad I couldn't see straight. I had never hated anyone so much. Didn't know who it was, I just knew that someone had purposely put him there." Then in his journal he wrote: "I wept and I hated. I did not yet know who I hated, but I hated them as strongly as one human being can hate another."

But David and Kate didn't know where to direct their hatred. All they knew was that someone had murdered their son. However, the police investigating Andrew's murder had a pretty good idea on who their suspect was. And that was none other than Shirley Turner. After interviewing co-workers at the hospital, they learned that Andrew had been having problems with Shirley. They also said that Andrew was actually supposed to be meeting with Shirley the very day he was shot and killed.

So, as you can imagine, the investigators immediately want to speak with her. But when they got Shirley on the phone, her behavior was shocking, to say the least. And something was very wrong. Because that next morning, Andrew Bagby was found shot to death at the Keystone State Park.

In the weeks after Andrew's death, investigators were learning all this information and it became very clear that Shirley Turner was responsible for his death. And throughout that time, Andrew's parents, David and Kate, stayed in Pennsylvania to assist in whatever way they could. They had uprooted their entire lives because at that point, nothing else mattered.

Through their grief, Andrew's coworkers really stepped up to the plate to help them out. Minnie brought them food and ran errands for them, just to alleviate their pain. David stated in his book, "They knew us in the bottom of our pit, and we have known them at the peak of their generosity." - We went to the same medical school. - You went to the same medical school? - Yeah, I knew from land. - Oh, is that right? Canada? - Yeah. Can you recognize my accent? - Did you know? - Yeah.

She just kind of appeared, and then she was there all the time, all of a sudden. And just didn't seem suited for him. Right.

At first, Shirley denied being in La Trobe at all. In fact, she said she had been in bed sick on November 5th.

But like we mentioned, she lived halfway across the United States and Iowa. So if she was telling the truth, phone records would show them exactly where she was that day. So investigators look at the cell phone towers and what do you know? Her phone pinged in Latrobe on the day that Andrew was murdered. Now another incriminating piece of evidence has to do with the shell casings found at the scene. After learning that Shirley was a person of interest,

investigators called a local shooting range. And they learned that in October of 2001, Shirley had obtained a permit to buy a firearm. And she even started taking lessons in the weeks before Andrew's death. And with the specific gun she purchased,

The shooting instructor told investigators that it would eject five live rounds, which is exactly what they found at the crime scene. And of course, after some testing, investigators found that the shell casings at the scene matched the gun and ammo that Shirley had purchased.

So almost immediately, investigators had solved the case. And now, it was time to confront Shirley with this information. When detectives called her to confront her about the cell phone records, Shirley quickly changed her story. She now said that she actually was in Latrobe that day, but the only reason she went is because Andrew told her he needed her gun. So she said she drove all the way to Pennsylvania to give it to him.

Now, it's assumed that Shirley gave this story to try and make it seem like Andrew was having problems with someone else. And whoever that person was must have shot him. But investigators knew better. In reality, the person he was having problems with

was her. Now through a ton of interviews and investigative work, authorities were able to find that after Andrew broke up with Shirley and sent her on that flight back home, she immediately got up that next morning and started the 16-hour drive to Latrobe, Pennsylvania. Believe it or not,

The day that she left was actually her very first day practicing family medicine at her new position in Council Bluffs. But she had more important matters to deal with. So along the drive, she called her boss and said that she wouldn't be able to make it to her first day of work because she had a migraine. I'm sure her boss was furious.

but Shirley didn't care and she continued to drive the 16 hours right to Andrew's front door. At around 5:30 a.m. on November 5th, Andrew was putting on his work scrubs, getting ready for the day when he suddenly heard his doorbell ring. He was incredibly confused as he wasn't expecting any company. But upon opening the door, Andrew saw Shirley. She hadn't slept

in several hours. She hadn't been invited. Yet there she stood, completely unashamed. Now it's unclear what their conversation looked like, but we can imagine that Andrew was not happy. In fact, when he reported for work that morning at around 7:30, his coworkers noted that he appeared to be very irritated. And given the situation, that checks out.

But he then told his supervisor, Dr. Clark Simpson, that Shirley had drove from Iowa to Pennsylvania because she was angry he had ended their relationship. In the documentary, "Dear Zachary," Dr. Simpson gives his retelling of events. - I remember the morning that Shirley showed up. He said, "You'll never guess who showed up on my doorstep at 5:30." And I said, "Who?" He said, "The psychotic bitch." And I told him, I said, "You know, Andrew,

when i break up with somebody and put them on a plane and send them 1300 miles away i said they knock on my front door i'm going out the back door and i'm calling the police he said what do you mean i said andrew i said be serious nobody drives 16 hours after you've just broken up with them i said do not meet her in private he said what can happen and he said i'm going to need to catch up with you and we're going to have to do some serious talking

I said, bring some beer. I only live a block away. I said, when do you think you'll be done? He said, well, it's 4.30 now. Meeting her at 6. 7.30, I'll be at your house. Things people should know about Andrew. He was never late. And you know what? When Andrew didn't show up at 7.30, I knew something was very wrong.

And something was very wrong, because that next morning, Andrew Bagby was found shot to death at the Keystone State Park. In the weeks after Andrew's death, investigators were learning all this information, and it became very clear that Shirley Turner was responsible for his death.

And throughout that time, Andrew's parents, David and Kate, stayed in Pennsylvania to assist in whatever way they could. They had uprooted their entire lives because at that point, nothing else mattered. Through their grief, Andrew's coworkers really stepped up to the plate to help them out. Many brought them food and ran errands for them just to alleviate their pain. David stated in his book, "They knew us in the bottom of our pit, and we have known them at the peak of their generosity."

But in the early days, they had no idea that Shirley Turner was a suspect in their son's murder. They were under the impression that Shirley had been in Iowa the whole time, so surely she couldn't have killed him. In fact, David and Kate actually spoke to Shirley pretty frequently during the first few weeks of the investigation, when they were finally told that Shirley was likely the culprit.

They were shocked and they wanted her arrested immediately. But sadly, that wouldn't happen because when investigators tried to locate Shirley, she was gone. She had fled to Canada and was hiding from the police. But now, everyone knew without a shadow of doubt that she had murdered Andrew Bagby.

If you love Murder in America, you love mysteries, you love true crime, you love murder stories and the unknown, then I have a new show for you. It's called The Conspiracy Files and it's hosted by me, Colin Browen, from Murder in America and The Paranormal Files.

On the conspiracy files, we explore everything from bizarre deaths to freak paranormal events, pedophile rings, government corruption, ritual sacrifice. No topic is untouched on this show. Everything that we talk about on the conspiracy files is backed up with fact. I,

I release reference sheets with every single episode that we do so you guys know everything we're talking about is confirmed to have happened and be real. It's a completely different type of show than anything else you've ever seen about conspiracy theories. Instead of a bunch of conjecture and theories, we're presenting you people with facts, telling you the story, walking you through the story just as detailed as we do with Murder in America, and then letting the listener decide what they think.

Anyways, you should definitely give it a listen. It's called The Conspiracy Files. The links are in the description of this show and you can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now let's get back to our story.

So who exactly was Shirley Turner? On paper, she appeared to be an upstanding citizen. I mean, she was a doctor at a family practice, someone you should be able to trust, but clearly that wasn't the case. So let's take a look into Shirley's disturbing past.

Shirley Turner was born on January 28, 1961. Her parents met in St. Anthony, Newfoundland, where her American father was stationed. He married Shirley's mother, a Canadian, and the two moved to Wichita, Kansas, where Shirley was born. When Shirley was seven, her parents divorced.

and she moved back with her mother to Newfoundland. Then from there, her life was that of an involuntary nomad. Her mother struggled to support Shirley and her siblings on a single income, which resulted in them moving frequently to find affordable housing. Shirley reportedly spoke often about the poverty she experienced as a child, telling others that that played a part in her decision to enter medicine.

On December 28th, 1981, when Shirley was 20, she married her first husband in Parsons Pond, a town of 400 people located on the remote Great Northern Peninsula of Newfoundland. Her first husband was a welder who was born and raised in the town. By July of 1982, the two welcomed Shirley's first child, a son.

Due to their low income, they were awarded what is known in Canada as a monthly "baby bonus". This tax-free money is given to underprivileged families to help raise their children and afford them the rights that all Canadians are meant to have access to. Shirley put this money into a scholarship fund so her son could attend any university he wanted to as an adult. But as you'll soon see, that didn't exactly go as planned.

When Shirley's first son was born, her relationship with her parents was strained. Her relationship with her mother-in-law, Adelaide, was strained as well. Shirley reportedly made it a point to not mention any of Adelaide's gifts or contributions in her son's baby book, and she was known to purposefully put distance between her son and his grandmother. In spite of this, Adelaide remained steadfast in Shirley's son's life,

and even in Shirley's, to almost a heartbreaking degree. In 1983, Shirley, her husband, and her young son moved to Labrador City in Labrador. Now, for reference, Labrador City may be in the same province as St. John's, but it's a 25-hour drive away from one another.

That's approximately the distance from Los Angeles to San Antonio, Texas. So we're not just talking a stone's throw away from her hometown. That being said,

Distance has never been something to dissuade Shirley. For several years, Shirley lived in Labrador City working as a teacher and raising her son. Then in 1985, she had her first daughter. But two years later in 1987, Shirley's marriage went downhill. Shirley began an affair with a fisherman that she had been involved with before her marriage. Now, an affair is bad enough.

But the lengths that Shirley went to to conduct the affair are, quite frankly, mind-blowing. Shirley's lover lived on Labrador's south coast, a 10-hour drive away from where she and her husband were living.

So, how does a person have an affair with someone that far away in the age before the internet, with two small kids to take care of and little to no money? Well, Shirley would routinely drive from her home in Labrador to the northern Great Peninsula, 10 hours away. After the 10-hour drive, she would then take a ferry, drop her kids off on the island with a relative, and then ferry back to Labrador to meet up with her lover.

Then, after she would retrace her steps, taking the ferry to the island to get her kids, then back to Labrador, then do the 10 hour drive back to her husband.

By 1988, Shirley's husband caught wind of the affair and divorced her, and by July of that year she had married the fisherman she had cheated on him with. From there, the two settled on the island of Newfoundland, and two years later, Shirley gave birth to her second daughter and third child overall. Now just for reference, in 1990,

When Shirley was having her third child, Andrew Bagby was still in high school in California. But between the birth of Shirley's third child in 1990 and dating Andrew in 1999, Shirley's irrational, dangerous behavior provides a lot of insight into the danger that Andrew was in when they finally began their relationship.

But by 1991, Shirley and her second husband had separated after just a few years of marriage. After that, she took her children with her to live in St. John's, where their lives were far from stable.

After moving back to St. John's, Shirley and her children moved in with this man, who quickly reported her to the Department of Social Services. Apparently, he witnessed Shirley physically and emotionally abusing her children. The man stated that he had grown so heartbroken at Shirley's mistreatment of her kids that he moved out and had to start therapy.

So, following this, the Department of Social Services started looking into things. They actually spoke with this man's therapist, who said that he had "witnessed the older daughter being struck in the face by her mother for no reason. Shirley always swears and curses at the child and sometimes at her son. Shirley has left the oldest daughter at home on weekends and evenings unsupervised and she has to go to school on the bus unsupervised. This has been ongoing for two months." At the time of this report,

Shirley's oldest daughter was only eight years old. So she was leaving her eight year old at home unsupervised for days on end. Now the Department of Social Services would interview Shirley's son and daughter, and they confirmed all of this. They also said that their mom was very strict

and would sometimes whip them with a belt. Now, surprisingly, Shirley was never brought in for an interview. After the department made three attempts to contact her, they closed the abuse report without any further investigation or any repercussions. Several children may have been spared a lifetime of trauma at Shirley's hands.

And just months after the report was closed, Shirley told her family that she could no longer raise her kids because of her rigorous medical school workload. Naturally, her family was upset about this, but Shirley was unbothered. In her mind, her kids were getting in the way, and she didn't want to take care of them anymore. So, from here, her son and oldest daughter were sent to live with Shirley's ex-mother-in-law, Adelaide, and her youngest daughter was sent to live with her biological father, about eight hours away from St. John's.

Now, it's important to note that Shirley maintained custody of her children in order to receive payments from the government. But she only saw her kids every once in a while. So now it's the late 90s. Shirley is now kid-free living in St. John's, focusing on her medical career. And it's around this time when she would meet Andrew Bagby. Now, at first, they were just friends. And actually, at the time she met Andrew,

Shirley had her sights on someone else, a man named Miles Doucette. Now, brace yourselves for this one because her relationship with Miles is something straight out of a horror movie. A few months into dating, Miles attempted to break up with Shirley. He was moving about 10 hours away for work and he had no interest in pursuing a long-distance relationship with her.

who was nine years his senior. Shirley, however, didn't want to take no for an answer. She would reportedly call Miles multiple times a day and just show up at his house without being invited. Miles was definitely freaked out by this and soon enough,

he would be offered another job in Halefax, which is 21 hours away by car and ferry. Miles assumed that with that much distance between them, Shirley would leave him alone. And after moving, he truly thought he had seen the last of her, but he couldn't have been more wrong.

In the summer of 1998, Shirley traveled the 21 hours over to Halifax and showed up at Miles' front door, uninvited and unannounced. When he opened his door that day, he couldn't believe that she was standing there. And not knowing what else to do, he made the mistake of letting Shirley inside. But as soon as she stepped in, Shirley made it very clear that she wasn't going to leave.

In fact, she essentially moved into his house against his will. And because he was afraid to call the police, he felt letting her stay was the path of least resistance. But Shirley Turner wasn't easily pleased. During one minor argument, Shirley took the high-heeled shoe she was wearing and drove it into Miles' jaw. Over the next few days, Miles was terrified. It was very clear to him that Shirley was extremely unstable. It got so bad, he even took her to the psychiatric hospital, where she was placed on an overnight hold.

Following this interaction, Shirley luckily returned back to St. John's, and Miles was ready to completely cut ties. He even decided to move again, this time to Pennsylvania, and he made sure that Shirley did not have his address. But soon enough, his phone became flooded with calls from her. Clearly, Miles had moved on from Shirley, and Shirley was not taking this news kindly.

For months, Miles said that Shirley harassed him, calling him every single day. And when she couldn't get through to him, Shirley started harassing his family. And these weren't just calls begging for him back. Shirley would threaten him. At one point, Miles claims that she even told him, quote,

"You will die. I will stab you. You'll soon be six feet under, and the time will come when I'll have to call your family and friends." But luckily for him, Miles Doucette never met this fate. By all accounts, it looks like he narrowly escaped it.

On April 7th, 1999, Miles Doucette was returning from work with a medical colleague who had also attended MUN. But as he approached the stairs to his apartment,

He froze in his tracks, lying on the stairs, clad in a black dress and heels. With Shirley, she held a bouquet of roses in her grasp, and there was blood covering the stairs where she had attempted to drag herself up to Miles' front door. When Miles approached, she groggily handed him a four-page, handwritten suicide note.

there was another single page in her grasp addressed to her psychiatrist and it read, "I am not evil, just sick." But teetering towards unconsciousness, Shirley told Miles,

I took some pills and wanna die." From here, Miles quickly called the police and Shirley was then rushed to the hospital where her stomach was pumped. As it turns out, she had taken 32 tablets of an antihistamine and 42 tablets of an over-the-counter nausea medication.

Now, it's important to note that what I'm about to say next comes from an investigation conducted and published by the Newfoundland and Labrador's child and youth advocate's delegate, Peter H. Marketstein, assisted by legal counsel David Day. This is a 500-page document detailing the history of this case in full, and it is where we've gotten the majority of our information, as well as David Bagby's book and

and the documentary Dear Zachary. That is to say, this is their professional opinion and isn't meant to downplay suicidal ideation. But essentially, they determined that the combination of medications that Shirley took was unlikely to be fatal. In the report, it is stated, "Whether this was a suicide attempt or a suicide gesture, I cannot address.

As a physician, Dr. Turner would have been aware and probably had access to medications much more likely to have efficiently and expeditiously occasioned her death. Moreover, in choosing the portals of a former boyfriend's apartment for her demise, she probably had calculated the prospect of being discovered and thereby rescued from the potential, gradually lethal effects of the substances she consumed.

Now, it's not uncommon for emotionally abusive partners to use the threat of suicide in order to manipulate, coerce, and hurt the people around them. And when you hear what Shirley did next, it seems pretty clear that that's what she was trying to do here. On April 8th, 1999, the morning after this traumatic event, Miles Doucette arrived at work.

When he checked his messages, the very first message waiting for him was from a woman who appeared to be trying to disguise her voice. The message claimed to be from a hospital and it said, "Dr. Turner died last night." But that was a lie. Shirley had survived.

And for months following this, she would continue to make calls to Miles and even showed up at his doorstep on several more occasions, which is absolutely terrifying. Anytime Shirley would show up to his house, Miles refused to answer the door and he often had to call the police to have Shirley removed. When he was later interviewed by the Newfoundland and Labrador Child Youth Advocates, he stated, quote,

"Dealing with Dr. Turner requires me to engage in a psychological chess game where I always have to think four or five moves in advance." Now, one would think that after all of this, Shirley would get the hint that Miles didn't wanna be with her. I mean, he rejected her any chance he could.

and was constantly calling the police on her. But sadly, she was still pursuing him. In fact, that year, she had even invited him to a party in New York. And when Miles didn't accept her invite, Shirley once again showed up to his house and began pounding on his front door. Upon seeing her,

Miles once again called the police. He would later recall that he was truly terrified, saying he, quote, could not be certain of what Dr. Turner would do next, end quote.

Miles Doucette was being stalked by Shirley Turner, which is an incredibly scary situation for anyone to be in. He constantly found himself wondering how long this would go on for and what measures would she take to get what she wants. Miles knew she was a dangerous woman and he feared for his safety. But fortunately for Miles Doucette, Shirley Turner was about to leave his life for good.

But not because she finally accepted the fact that he didn't want her. Shirley simply found a new man to obsess over. And that man was Andrew Bagby.

Just a few weeks after attempting suicide on Miles' front steps, Shirley started dating Andrew. That means that during this period where she was berating Miles with calls, knocking on his door, and being told to leave by police, she was actively seeing Andrew Bagby. But Andrew clearly didn't know this dark side of the new woman in his life.

Shirley's reputation with Andrew's friends was one thing, but her reputation within the medical community was much, much worse. In 1998, shortly before she started seeing Andrew, Shirley received her doctorate and began her internship within various family practices.

Now internships and residency periods are serious matters. They're meant as training periods to bridge the gap between school and working completely independently as a doctor. Interns and residents are expected to be on their best behavior and to essentially work the hardest that they ever have in their careers. But Shirley didn't seem to get that memo. In fact, for one of her St. John's residency periods, she arrived two days late

And when she finally did show up, she started barking orders at everyone, telling them that she refused to work certain days and how someone would have to take her shifts on the days she didn't wanna come in. And this kind of behavior is pretty much unheard of. The head physician in charge of Shirley made a negative comment about her demands. And according to the head physician, she didn't take this comment kindly.

He stated: "She became quite hostile, yelling, crying and accusing me of treating her unfairly. Twice she hung up on me during telephone conversations. She lied right to my face and forcibly argued her case accusing me of improper supervision.

Shirley even demanded that the doctor's negative comment be removed from her record, even though she had no right to do so. Now, Shirley hadn't even been at this job for a while before she started causing a lot of problems. Eventually, they would put her on a three-month rotation, and from there, she only seemed to become less dedicated to her job.

The head physician told investigators she missed nine days of this three-month rotation. Most residents miss one day per year. She used excuses such as her children being sick, migraine headaches, or no excuses at all.

Now remember, at this time, Shirley's children all lived over 300 miles away from St. John's where she was practicing and they were all in the full care of family members. Yet at one point during this period, Shirley missed a residency day and told her supervisor that she had been awake the entire night

caring for one of her children, who apparently had an ear infection. But the doctor already knew that all of Shirley's kids lived far away. So they confronted her saying, "How are you awake all night when all of your kids live eight hours away?" Upon hearing this, Shirley started backpedaling. She said, "Oh, well, I wasn't with them. I was just on the phone all night trying to get them the right antibiotic."

According to the head physician, "We were so concerned about Shirley Turner's approach to confrontation and the truth that we would never give her feedback or hold any major discussion with her alone. This is the only time in my 21 years of teaching that I have had to use this approach. You might say Dr. Turner was a manipulative, guiltless psychopath. She was cute, petite, and always looked injured. She just fooled everyone, I think."

But it wasn't just the physicians and coworkers that had problems with Shirley. Reportedly, several patients stopped going to the practice because Shirley made them feel uncomfortable. So as you can see, Shirley Turner was clearly a disturbed individual with a plethora of problems. However, no one knew exactly what she was capable of, especially Andrew Bagby.

To him, Shirley was a woman who had crossed his path and cared about him. She made an effort to be in his life, and sadly, he accepted her completely unaware of what was to come.

In the summer of 2000, it was time for Shirley and Andrew's careers to begin. Seeking a job as a surgical doctor, Andrew took on that surgical residency in the US in Syracuse, New York. Meanwhile, with her residency completed, Shirley decided to take a family practice position in Sac City, Iowa. Her annual salary was estimated to be $117,000 per year. Her children stayed behind in Newfoundland.

except for her oldest daughter who was 15. She told Shirley that she wanted to move to Ontario to live with a boy she had met. I don't know about you, but when I was 15, I had plenty of plans that were stupid and dangerous as well. But fortunately, my parents were smart enough to not let me go through with most of them.

Shirley, however, approved. She sent her 15-year-old daughter across the country with $700 to her name so that she could set up homeschooling. Imagine for a moment letting your young teenage daughter relocate to be with a boy and be in charge of her own education. In retrospect, the

the Canadian government has stated that this arrangement should have resulted in child protective services being contacted. Meanwhile, when Shirley moved to the U.S., it wasn't just her oldest daughter who was struggling. Her son had just turned 18 and was ready to attend college, only to discover that his mother had spent every dollar of the baby bonus she was supposed to put away for his education.

he was devastated and was forced to take on two jobs while in school to afford tuition but as you can see shirley's focus was not on her children at this time she had her own life here in the united states and all of her focus at this point was for her boyfriend andrew bagby one thing we know for sure is that in the fall of 2001 andrew was over shirley he no longer wanted to be the focus of her attention

Perhaps he saw a glimpse into her disturbing behaviors and wanting to do what was best for his life, he attempted to break things off with her. - But as you can tell by Shirley's past, she does not handle breakups very well based on what investigators were able to put together

After Andrew broke up with her and put her on that flight back to Council Bluffs, Shirley immediately got into her car and started the drive back to Andrew's house. But with her was a loaded gun. On November 5th,

Shirley showed back up at Andrew's door wanting to work things out, but he wasn't on the same page. Like we mentioned, Andrew went to work that day and told his coworkers about how Shirley showed up to his house that morning. He also told coworkers that after work that day, he agreed to meet up with Shirley again at 6:00 PM. And it was during that meeting where he was going to end it for good. The location where they agreed to meet at

was the beautiful remote Keystone State Park. Now the details of what happened there will never be known. What is known is that Andrew and Shirley arrived separately between 5:27 and 6:10 p.m. Around that time,

A hunter saw both Shirley's car and Andrew's car sitting in the parking lot side by side. It's estimated that the two got into a heated argument at the park, surrounded by the dark woods, far away from anyone who could hear them.

Andrew had no reason to think that Shirley would harm him in any physical way. They had endured a tumultuous relationship and it's likely that Andrew was conditioned to accept this kind of behavior from Shirley. But sometime around 8:30 PM, Shirley acted on her anger.

Just six days after Andrew's murder, Shirley got on a plane and flew to Toronto. She told anyone who asked that this was because her son had been injured in a car crash. But in reality, that car crash didn't happen until she had already been in Canada for quite some time. Andrew's parents, David and Kate, were devastated to learn that Shirley had murdered their son. Yet it lit a new fire beneath them. Like we mentioned earlier,

David and Kate planned to kill themselves once they returned back home. But now...

their entire focus was getting justice for their son. However, it is important to note that while Shirley was in Canada, she had no idea that Andrew's parents knew she was a suspect. So on November 27th, 2001, they placed a call to Shirley. Upon answering the phone, Shirley was clearly ecstatic to hear from them. She even yelled out, "David!"

I've been trying to get a hold of you." But she quickly realized that David and Kate did not want to chit chat. They wanted to talk about the investigation. However, Shirley told them that she had been on sleeping pills and she couldn't remember exactly what she had said to the police during her interrogation, but what she said next,

would change everything. It wasn't a confession. It wasn't details about the case. Instead, Shirley simply told David and Kate, quote, "I'm pregnant and it's Andrew's baby." After that phone call, David and Kate didn't know what to think. To be honest, they didn't even know if Shirley was telling the truth. She was known to lie about things for attention. So maybe this was just a ploy to get sympathy as she was under investigation.

After Andrew's murder, Shirley had moved into a home in St. John's, Newfoundland. And since then, they had been keeping surveillance on her home. Then, on December 2nd, 2001, investigators searched this home, and in one of the trash cans, they found an ultrasound. As it turns out, Shirley wasn't lying. She was pregnant. And according to her, it was Andrew's baby.

So, from there, things got much more complicated. By this point, with all the evidence against her, investigators finally had enough to get an arrest warrant for Shirley. But keep in mind, Shirley murdered Andrew in the United States. Then afterwards, she fled to Canada and refused to come back. So, arresting her wouldn't be that easy.

First, the Canadian government would have to place her under arrest, and then she would have to be extradited back to the United States. So, for now, she was still a free woman. But for Andrew's parents, they were going through a whirlwind of emotions. Kate and David struggled to get out of bed in the morning. David couldn't stand seeing Kate in such a horrible state, refusing to eat, suffering from nightmares, and sobbing until she had no more tears. After learning that Shirley would be arrested, of course, they were happy.

Shirley was finally going to get the justice she deserved.

But they also couldn't believe that she was carrying Andrew's baby. And as chaotic as this situation was, it somehow brought them some comfort. After losing their son, their grief was insurmountable. But now, they had a piece of him coming into this world. On December 15th, David wrote in his journal, Kate wants to raise the baby. I can live with that. The baby will be born into a pit. And we are in a pit. So maybe we can all help each other climb out.

Now, Andrew actually had two funerals. His family held one in America, and then his friends and former classmates in Canada had another ceremony for him. Kate and David didn't end up going to the one in Canada, but his friends did record it so that his parents could still watch from the States. And to everyone's surprise, Shirley Turner showed up to the funeral in Canada. When she entered the building, everyone was completely shocked

that she would dare show her face around there, considering she was the one who killed him. But Shirley's behavior during the funeral was even more shocking. On camera,

Shirley could be seen sobbing and seeking the comfort of Andrew's friends. She was acting like a grieving widow. Upon seeing this, Andrew's parents were disgusted and from their house in America, Kate even began screaming, "You murderer!" And from there, she had to be taken out of the room.

More than anything, Andrew's loved ones wanted to see Shirley Turner in prison, where she belonged. And luckily, on December 12, 2001, their wishes would be granted. That day, Shirley was taken into custody in St. John's under provisional arrest. But to everyone's surprise, it wouldn't be long until she was back out on the streets.

As it turned out, Shirley's ex-husbands each signed promising $5,000 in sureties each if Shirley was to run. But even more shocking was that her psychiatrist posted $65,000 in sureties. That's a lot of money to give over to one of your patients. And based on Shirley's past, her psychiatrist had to have known she was incredibly unstable.

But sadly, enough money was raised for Shirley Turner to be released from custody. The United States and Canadian Council agreed on this judgment, stating that Shirley, somehow, was not a threat to the public since her alleged crime was specific in nature. In other words, if she did murder Andrew, she had already achieved her goal and she probably wasn't going to murder anyone else. In addition, the court stated that she had been very cooperative thus far in the investigation.

Now, I'm not entirely sure how fleeing to another country and refusing to return to the United States is cooperative, but regardless, Shirley was allowed to walk free while she awaited extradition to the United States.

Over the next few months, Shirley enjoyed her freedom, going to different parties, movies, and social events. Meanwhile, the Bagbys quit their jobs, gave up their entire lives in California, and moved to Canada to establish a life there so they could fight for custody of their grandson once he was born, which would be on July 18th, 2002. That day,

Shirley went into labor and gave birth to a beautiful baby boy named Zachary Andrew Turner. Upon hearing the news,

Kate and David rushed to the hospital to meet him, but Shirley denied them entry. They stood five feet away from him, separated by a door. Shirley expressed to her care team that she was worried the Bagbys would hurt Zachary in retaliation for killing Andrew. She also said that she was scared the Bagbys would kidnap him and flee.

And as desperate as the Bagbys were to protect and love Zachary, they had no such plans. All they wanted that day was to see their grandson, the last piece of Andrew still left in this world. But Shirley wouldn't let them. So instead, they left a gift for Zachary by the door and they left the hospital.

Because of the pending case, Shirley was visited by Child, Youth and Family Service in late July. Upon visiting the home, the caseworker noted that Shirley's youngest daughter, whom she had retained custody of, was doing the majority of the child rearing. At the time, her daughter was only 11 years old. Now, given the situation, you would think Zachary would be removed from his mother's care or perhaps given to the Bagbys. After all, his mother was a cold-blooded killer.

However, that wasn't the case. Instead, the worker had a parent coach arrange to assist Shirley. The parent coach visited for four hours over the next 14 days, completely free of charge for Shirley.

During this time, the Bagbys desperately wanted to help Shirley and spend time with their grandson. They didn't even care about Shirley's impending murder trial. They didn't want to bring up anything about the case. All they wanted was to spend time with Zachary, but Shirley refused their help. She clearly felt a sense of control keeping them away from Zachary. Interestingly,

Two weeks after he was born, own attorney told her that he didn't think the Bagby's were a threat. In his opinion, they genuinely just wanted to spend time with their grandson. But upon hearing this,

Shirley became angry and she actually fired that attorney right after. Despite her attempts to keep them separated, the Bagby's were persistent. They continued reaching out, offering their help, but Shirley continued to refuse it. And it wasn't that she didn't need the help, she did. In fact, she soon reached out to the Child, Youth and Family Services again and demanded two additional weeks of help.

money to get Zachary supplies, money to get her youngest daughter supplies for school, a bus pass for her and Zachary, and a babysitter to tend to Zachary while she was in court. And she was given everything she asked for. But it's around this time when the Bagbys began their fight for visitation rights. If Shirley wasn't going to let them see Zachary, then they were going to fight for it.

They ended up going to family court where the Bagby's begged to have two one-hour weekly visits with Zachary and no direct contact with Shirley. Shirley, however, wanted only one hour long visit a week that was fully supervised and demanded that there be a bag and body search of Kate and David, as if they were going to pull out a weapon and hurt him.

In addition, Shirley wanted taxi service to be covered for her and Zachary on visitation days. Her requests were ridiculous, but of course David and Kate agreed. They were desperate to see their grandson, even if it meant catering to Shirley's insane demands.

The first time the Bagbys met Zachary, they knelt before him and sobbed. He looked exactly like Andrew. And if you look at pictures, the similarities between the father and son are undeniable. They could be twins. For the Bagbys, it was like their son was alive again. Looking into his little blue eyes gave them the will to live, to push for justice, and to give their grandson the life he deserved.

As Shirley's court date grew near, she agreed to let the Bagbys take custody of Zachary if she was incarcerated. However, she had conditions. She wanted them to visit her as often as possible and she wanted custody back when she was able to post bail.

So on November 14th, 2002, Shirley Jane Turner was returned to jail while she awaited a ruling from the Federal Justice Minister on whether or not she would be extradited back to the United States. Upon getting this news, Kate and David rushed to pick Zachary up, and for the next two months, they lived with him in relative bliss.

In the mornings, David would cradle his grandson and walk him through his daily process of making tea. At night, Kate would rock him and sing him to sleep every night, singing him this song to the tune of "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star."

Grandma loves you, yes she does. Granddad loves you, yes he does. Daddy loves you, yes he does. Uncle Cuts him, he loves you too. We all love you while we can. Darling, darling, little man.

- In the midst of this bliss, however, David and Kate had to deal with an unfortunate condition, visiting Shirley in jail. Because children aren't allowed to be alone in jail visitations, Kate and David had to sit with Shirley during these visits and pretend like nothing was wrong. During them, Shirley would complain about the prison's conditions. She sobbed.

claiming that as a mother, Kate must understand how hard it is to not see her son. And Kate understood that more than Shirley ever could.

On top of that, Kate and David routinely took care of Shirley's 12-year-old daughter. Surprisingly, from November to January, both Shirley and the country of Canada let the 12-year-old live by herself in Shirley's old apartment. Yes, you heard that correctly. A 12-year-old was left to their own devices. This was because Shirley argued that her daughter had appropriate supervision, which was occasional visits from her older brother and pop-in visits from her neighbors upstairs.

Of course, the social workers were required to check in on the 12-year-old, yet they only made two home visits in that two-month period. Despite Shirley's daughter routinely being out of groceries, unkempt, and unable to be contacted, the social workers didn't seem concerned.

In fact, on December 11th, they even terminated her counseling sessions, stating that she had "good coping skills." The Bagbys had no obligation to Shirley's 12-year-old daughter. They had no relation to her. They also had a terrible relationship with her mother, and the government was supposed to be taking care of her, not them. Yet the Bagbys took her out to dinner,

took her to see her mother in jail, and even took her on outings to the movies. Because that's the kind of people they were. They took care of others. But soon enough, they were about to face another heartbreak. Because on January 10th, 2003, Shirley Turner posted bail, and the judge let her walk, claiming once more that she quote, "Wasn't a danger to the public at large."

As if Shirley had done nothing wrong, she was handed over Zachary, the Bagby's pride and joy, their last link to the son that she had taken from them.

Desperate for some kind of escape and some connection to Andrew, Kate and David decided to go to the movies to clear their heads. The movies had always been a comfort in times of trouble for their family, ever since Andrew was a little boy acting in them and using them as a fun excuse to cuss in front of his parents. So on that day, after giving Zachary back to Shirley, they went to the movies to watch The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers. Andrew had always loved The Lord of the Rings books growing up, so the movie seemed fitting.

Now, this movie, if you haven't seen it, is actually about a battle between good and evil. And as they were watching it, they couldn't help but think about how it mirrored their very lives. One part in the movie, in particular, brought the Bagby's to tears as they held each other in the dim light of the screen. What are we holding on to, Sam? There's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it's worth fighting for.

The Bagby's agreed there was good worth fighting for and that good was Zachary. For the next few months, their relationship with Shirley was like something out of a psychological thriller. The Bagby's bought things for Shirley and Zachary. They drove Shirley to appointments.

They attended swimming classes, art classes, and even nature walks with Shirley. Of course, they were only doing it to spend time with Zachary. And through all of it, the Bagbys had to grit their teeth and force smiles. If they reacted negatively, they knew that Shirley would go to family court and demand their visitation rights be removed. So in order to protect their grandson, they had to befriend

their enemy. But that was easier said than done. Naturally,

Zachary took an undeniable liking to his grandmother, Kate. In fact, most of the time when they were all together, he would favor Kate over his own mom. And every time this happened, Shirley would become furious. She would even cancel future visitations or cut their meeting short. In this recorded phone call with Kate, you can hear Shirley express her frustrations and somehow Kate keeps her cool.

Sometimes you don't realize what you're saying. I think it was one time we were on the phone or something and... Yeah, the baby cried and I said, oh, that's my baby. Yeah, I mean, I can watch that for sure. It's not to prompt me. You are trying to take my place. There has been, I guess, a lot of uncomfortable feeling on both our parts. I would really like for you and Kate to reconsider getting some help with that.

On Zachary's first birthday, held in a McDonald's play place, Shirley became hysterical after Zachary went to Kate for comfort instead of her. She even told Kate, "He obviously loves you more than me." Kate and David were forced to hold Shirley's hands, rub her back, and remind her that Zachary loved her more than anything. Imagine having to do that to your son's killer.

Even though Shirley hated giving Zachary over to his grandparents, she would routinely go partying on long weekends, leaving Zachary in the Bagby's custody, which obviously they loved. Those long weekends were some of their favorite memories. They held on to every second they had with him, studying his features and watching him explore the world around him. Zachary was a very curious and fascinated child.

much like his dad. On one summer weekend, David watched in awe as Zachary examined a spare lawnmower wheel. After looking at it for a few seconds, he then picked it up and started rolling it, giggling at the noise it made when it went in circles. Watching him, they couldn't help but smile. The Bagbys loved him more than they ever thought possible. And luckily for them, it seemed as if Shirley was becoming more distracted.

On July 4th, Shirley went on a date with a man several years younger than her. After being intimate, the man disclosed to Shirley that he didn't want to pursue a romantic relationship with her. It's also around this time when this man discovered that Shirley had murder charges against her for the death of Andrew Bagmey, so he tried to put as much distance between them as possible. But as you can imagine, Shirley wasn't going to let that happen.

Between July 12th and August 13th, she called the man over 200 times. Each time he heard the phone ring, he refused to pick it up. He was scared. He even called the police on multiple occasions to let them know what she was doing, though he didn't want to press charges. Then, on August 11th, Shirley told the man that she was pregnant with his baby. She threatened repeatedly that she was going to get an abortion, but by this point, the man had completely stopped talking to her.

I guess she assumed that telling him she was pregnant would get his attention, but it didn't. So after that, Shirley left him a message stating that she had canceled the abortion appointment and was going to keep the child.

However, that very next day, she changed her mind again. She left him another message stating that she had rescheduled the appointment and was terminating her pregnancy that afternoon. She told him that he was a "fucking immature asshole" for refusing to meet up with her so they could discuss the plans for their child together. On multiple occasions, she called him to harass him, stating, "You're so fucking immature acting this way. Grow up and be a fucking man."

at this point the man called the police and agreed to file a report against shirley however when she was confronted about the matter she claimed that she hadn't been making any harassing phone calls in

In fact, she wasn't even pregnant. Shirley claimed that this was all a ruse to get her into trouble. Now, you would think that this would be the end of Shirley's harassment, but of course it wasn't. Days later, she called the man again, telling him that she actually was pregnant and that she had an ultrasound now to prove it. But by now, this guy was completely done with Shirley. He even told her that he would no longer be speaking to her and if she needed anything, she would have to contact his attorney.

But as it turned out, Shirley was obviously lying. She wasn't pregnant with this man's child. It was yet another sick, manipulative game she was playing to try and keep another man who didn't want her in her life.

Soon after this, on August 18th, 2003, David and Kate Bagby were sitting at home like they always did. I'm sure they were counting down the days until Shirley's trial came around so that they could finally have custody of Zachary, their pride and joy.

From that moment on, things would finally be looking up for them. They would no longer have to deal with Shirley and her unstable behavior because she would be in prison where she belongs. These were things they thought about often. But on this day, their thoughts were interrupted with a phone call. The call was from their attorney named Jackie. And upon answering, they were told that Shirley and Zachary were nowhere to be found.

Apparently, Shirley had stolen her oldest son's car earlier that morning and no one knew where they went. Immediately, Kate and David felt their stomachs drop. They were terrified. Soon enough, their attorney, Jackie, showed up to their house along with a detective. While there, they reassured them that this kind of stuff happens all the time.

and that usually the person shows back up within 24 hours. From there, the detective left the house. But about 30 minutes later, he called the Bagby's attorney and told her that he left his coat at their house and that he needed it right away. Jackie shrugged him off, saying that she needed to stay with the Bagby's, but he was insistent

"Calmly and coldly," he told her, quote, "I really need you to bring that jacket to me at my office right now." Jackie now knew what the message meant. So she excused herself from the Bagby's house and made her way to the station. Shortly after, she would return with a police officer who relayed the horrific news. - He went in and I told him. And what I saw after that, I will never forget in my life.

The security guard of the Fox Trap Marina on Conception Bay South had a long night ahead of him. Tucked away in a tiny shed to protect him from the raging storm outside, he had his CD player going for comfort. But a little after 2:00 AM, he heard a sound that stood out against the wind and the rain. It was a sound that had no earthly reason to be ringing out of the storm at this time of night.

He later told investigators,

All I could pick out about what the person was wearing was something like a white t-shirt. I called out, "Is anyone there?" No one answered. As close as I ever was to the person was a couple of meters, which was at the time I first came out of the shed. I watched the person walk away, from where I stood close to the outside of the shed, along the old railway track path, out of sight into the pitch black.

The old railway track path runs behind the shed and the area where you go onto the main wharf of the marina as the path curves away from the marina. I couldn't tell if the person was male or female because the person was back onto me and it was very dark. This person was Shirley Turner and tied to her chest was baby Zachary. In the dead of night,

Shirley had driven to Foxtrot, a tiny marine community at the edge of the North Atlantic Ocean. The man she had been seeing lived there and she had plans for him that night.

After driving into town, Shirley walked to the man's home and placed two photos beneath his car. One was of her and Zachary, and the other was of Shirley wearing just a bra and panties. And then strangely, beside the photo, Shirley left a used tampon. Many people believe that this was a taunt, telling the man that she wasn't actually pregnant. But after leaving this ominous message,

Shirley gave Zachary a bottle, but there wasn't just milk inside. The formula was mixed with a fatal amount of lorazepam, a benzo used to treat anxiety. After feeding the bottle to Zachary, Shirley then took a fatal dose herself.

Then, using a sweater, she strapped Zachary to her chest and walked over to the barren landscape of the windswept coast. And from there, she jumped into the dark and frigid Atlantic Ocean. Together, Shirley Turner and Andrew Bagby's son Zachary sank to the bottom of the ocean floor and drowned.

According to the coroner's report, Zachary would have been rendered unconscious by the medication. So luckily he didn't suffer. Their bodies were later discovered in a cove several miles away the next day.

When Kate and David heard the news, they collapsed onto the floor and sobbed. They then had to go and identify Zachary's body, something that felt all too familiar. They also remembered the mistake they felt they had made with Andrew just two years prior. What bothers Kate is that she did not go with him to the crematorium and stay with him right to the end. He went from the funeral home to the crematorium all alone in plastic bags.

With only his head sticking out. Come on Kate, you wouldn't care about that. That's why we went right up to the oven doors with Zachary. This is what that fucking bitch didn't know. Or maybe she did know. This is what she's leaving. Maybe she did know. If she thought about it at all, she didn't give a good goddamn. And this is what I hate her for. I hate her for a lot of things.

stealing the rest of Andrew's life and virtually all of Zachary's life and then this, leaving us like this.

In the clip, you can see David trying to contain his anger as Kate sobs. He keeps his arm around her the entire time, comforting her. Their worlds had just been destroyed for a second time, all by the same woman, Shirley Turner. With Zachary's body, David and Kate decided to cremate him and then bury his remains alongside his father's. But from there, they were left to pick up the pieces of their shattered lives. Yet, they continued to fight to ensure that no other families would endure

what they did. - As you can tell, there were many mistakes made in the justice system here. And when the word spread about this case, many people were wondering how someone as dangerous as Shirley would have been let out on bail in the first place, let alone have custody of her baby. This is a woman who had stalked and harassed multiple men throughout her lifetime. Someone who drove 16 hours across America to murder the man

who had just broken up with her. With her history, the warning signs were all there, yet the Canadian justice system took it easy on her. So in 2006, it was found that there were many mistakes made in this case.

and that Zachary's death could have been prevented if they valued his safety over Shirley's presumed innocence. After these findings, in 2009, a bill was passed called Zachary's Bill, which allows courts in Canada to refuse bail to people accused of serious crimes in order to protect their children.

Additionally, the psychiatrist who posted bail for Shirley, John Doucette, was reprimanded for misconduct and ordered to pay a $10,000 fine. But the judge who ruled that Shirley wasn't a danger to society, Justice Gail Welsh, faced no repercussions at all and was allowed to continue her career until she retired in 2022.

To this day, Andrew's family and friends joined together to celebrate days that should have been milestones in his life. On September 25th, 2023, on what would have been Andrew's 50th birthday, a group of people from all over the country gathered at a winery on the coast of California to toast him. Kate and David sat at the head of the table, surrounded by filmmakers from Dear Zachary, friends from Andrew's life as Dr. Bagby in California, his college years in Newfoundland, and his childhood years in California.

For years, Kate and David worked advocating for and supporting other parents who had lost their children to homicide. They pushed for policy change and urged the whole world to hear the story of their son and grandson. Now they're in their golden years, a time where people look back on their lives. David and Kate have a lot to look back on and a lot to be proud of.

I think the moment of them celebrating what would have been Andrew's 50th birthday is a testament to not only their legacy, but how remarkable their parenting was. Even over 20 years after the death of their son, people are still gathering from around the world to speak about how incredible of a man he was. People aren't willing to let him fully die, and neither are Kate and David.

They fought for their boys until the bitter end, and out of their struggle, they've saved countless other families from enduring what they have.

At the end of this show, Courtney and I want to announce that we're going to make a donation to the Dr. Andrew Bagby Family Medicine Scholarship, a scholarship based in Latrobe, Pennsylvania, that has given dozens of students the opportunity to practice family medicine over a four-week program in the same medical center where Andrew made himself a home and served his community. And we encourage all of our listeners to do the same.

Well, thank you everybody for listening to this week's episode of Murder in America. Courtney and I actually watched this film a few months ago. I had seen it recommended. I'd never watched it, neither had Courtney. And it was like a profoundly impactful movie. I would highly recommend go watching the documentary. Courtney and I were like sobbing at the end. It's just so well made. And the story is so good.

It's just really infuriating. All the red flags, the warning signs, the failures. I mean, it's just really strange how they seem to just want to let this murderer out into the free world and no one ever faced repercussions for it. It's kind of like all these stories, these justice...

Justice, you know, individuals, people in the justice system make these flawed decisions and they're never punished for those decisions. Even, you know, at times like in this story, when the price for those failures or indecision is the life of, in this case, an infant.

But if you want to hear more episodes of Murder in America, you can go sign up for our Patreon where we have bonus episodes of the show, full-length episodes with Courtney and I, the same exact type of episodes that are on our main feed. We post multiple episodes a month on the Patreon for our Patreon members. And also, if you don't like the ads, you can listen to

the ad-free version of every episode, which is also posted the day before it goes live on all streaming platforms. So if you don't like the ads, if you want bonus content, consider joining us on Patreon. Also, if you could please leave us a five-star review wherever you're listening to your podcasts.

And don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Murder in America to see photos from every story that we cover here on the show. This is a crazy story. What an episode. But thank you all so much for tuning in. Catch you on the next one.