Episode 617: Jerry Brudos: The Shoe Fetish Slayer (Part 1)
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Hey, we are those I .

ash and I mela, and this .

is morbid.

This is more, but we're apart again, you guys, it's like a fucking in running theme.

This is the season like we .

both said at the exact same. Yes, I was wild.

No, yeah, it's the season of a weird stomach viruses. So IT has hit our household. And so I decided, you know, let's not spread around anyone else.

Yeah, I said, I am happy here in my non disease household. Yeah.

it's hit one of my kids. We're hoping to contain IT. But you know how echoes everybody. So yeah, pray for us. Yeah.

well, two out of three now technically.

yeah, technically IT has just parents out there. So you know, weird virus, strange virus. Very quick.

So that's good. That's nice. It's a stomach c virus. But it's not as intense as like the Normal like noral virus or something like that. Yeah you're gonna have have stomach virus the best way to do ick, yeah I mean, i'm going to be knocked on wood. I'll take this one because that seems to be a literal twelve hour experience and then they're kind of just on their way out of IT like I started last night, was over pretty quick with my my oldest and now she's SHE said me inside teens queen and you know.

watching blue, what I would give to be watching blue right now.

right?

He love blue so much.

It's so soothing.

IT is so soothing yeah and it's very nice.

So hoping, you know, sh'll be on the mend and be eating by tomorrow like real food.

So we'll see. Yeah, last week was a ducey of a week specifically, but they go IT was pretty rough for me. But I feel like for you I was like there was a couple extra hit that you took that didn't necessarily yeah so then we did like a little simmer part.

I'll i'll post what we did IT. IT would seem to be a good one. I did yeah was twice. And then we did IT in the pop lab ones, and I feel like the negativity went away. And then I feel like you're older barfing SHE is barfed out the last of the negativity.

I know I feel like she's she's like a real one, like he really is. And I think he was just like, I got IT. She's, she's like, she's like in the Green mile, john coffee, i've ever seen that.

He just like.

takes and all the bad stuff. He like, touch someone and taking all the bad stuff. And then he evacuates IT out of his body through.

It's like bees or something I like, oh okay I think like a preview of yeah he just like, he like coffee at all out. I feel like my my girl SHE did that last night. He took all the shit of the week and then yeah buff ed out yeah SHE is a bit she's a real one there.

You woke up to like a lot of .

good news this morning. Yeah, we woke up to a very good news about a guest we can have in the first really a car of the year next year like a february, we can tell you because it's too exciting and we want to wait. We like IT down first, but that's it's going to be a very exciting one. I was like first thing in the morning, I was like k go as I H you woke up and .

texted that like, I was be a little bit before we could record telex state in my warm, cozy bed. But I put my rigger on in this so back asleep. And then I saw a group text with you in this person when I was in.

oh my god.

because we were just talking about IT at then the last week, yes.

and we were about to check in disability. O, do we do we think this will happen? And they checked in, which was wild. Yeah, that's going to be exciting.

And then, guys, this is I I knew ghost who was announcing something this morning, and I said, oh no, what is that? What could IT be? And they had a chapter in the law and the editor on paper again. But they announced a fucking world tour.

I thought elina was gonna like.

combust last, my dear mind. They come in a boston.

their ship, and up to boss.

they'll come in a boston kid. And i'm so fuck and excited. Where are they playing in boston? The tea garden?

Oh, shit. That's yeah. That's a fun restaurant.

Yeah, he.

they're doing the big ones. I was good. Yeah, I think .

they're going to new york to medicine square garden for the first time too.

That would be square garden is also such a fun venue. I saw her styles. They're very different.

but yeah very different, but very different.

But still wonder.

still aten. Yeah and theatrical. So I wanna go to that one really bad. I feel like I would be a fun one. New york, yeah, yeah.

Make up a whole new you heard a hear folks and a new york with you, new york show. I'll go with the a IT will be. But i'm really excited.

And that means, I mean, guys, we're going to know who the new pup is soon because they haven't they rejected the name of the tour because i'm assume and has something they would give something away. Yeah, but this i'll be the new paper on torr. So we must be getting new music. I'm assuming.

I mean, i'm very interested to see like who this pop will be .

the next iteration of paper. Yes, I can't wait.

I love the the excitement that you get is a king to a child on this morning, like the light within your eyes, even right now the like it's just radiating at me.

And is I got so exciting, like when I saw that they were going to be announcing something today, I saw with my little youtube APP up and they countdown, and I just waited for that.

I love IT. I got excited for you.

It's so fun. But given .

when I see and I like go.

I know here you guys are always like, here you go. But we also in like this, this ties. And we went to the nightmare e this weekend because I went there with wicked good books from salem, and we did like a fun, little mean, great signing thing, like a very impromptus is really fun.

And they still have some books and they ship everyone.

yeah, they still have some signed book. So got butcher in the running butcher game, so check out, well, link, we can go books in the show notes, so you can go to IT if you want to grab on. I got to meet a ton of people and a lot of people. The amount of people who said you got me into ghost made my heart sore and IT was so funny .

because I was like, super cold. So we had, like, big jackets on. But anytime someone would say I had to tell them your shirt because he was really, really wearing a go shirt.

and IT was like john. Obviously, john showed me goes like a couple years ago and it's so fun that now i'm like spreading the good word. I'm just spreading the good word of ghost.

And it's nice to hear I love you. I love seeing you as like .

unite in the wild. Yes, I love IT whenever somebody says I like the one.

I love IT, I love IT a lot.

But we also got to meet one of my favorite ite people that i've ever went.

my life, my favorite, literally, my life. china. Chelsea from masa.

Chelsea from elastic. Just, I said IT too. I was like, I was like, Chelsea, this has been a shit week. Like, it's been a real shit week .

like that morning alane. I got a flat, yeah, on the way of my house for booklover .

and found out I have to replace all four of the tires on my vehicle at the same time.

That was my favorite. You ve got one flat tire and they were like, actually all four of these are about together. And IT wasn't even like a sometimes you go to the car dealership and they're like, oh my god, the whole car is broken. Should you just get a new yeah like because, mike, I had looked at your tires recently and was like.

agreed at this bald. So that happened. And I was like, oh, awesome. We're just taken this right into the weekend. But then the nightmare was so lovely and so amazing.

And everybody we met was so was such a fuck in shot in the ARM, like I was such a cool exam. And I love the nightmare. Salem just gives me, always gives me life, just a breathing the air. And salem gives me life really.

Yeah, the second we'd like drive over like when you cross up to say.

yeah, we're both just like just like this nice little moment in the meeting everybody was just like the night fair. That environment is such a fucking cool environment .

and then absolutely .

l IT Chelsea. We we kept Chelsea as a highlight on our instagram because Chelsea rever, when I tell you this, the energy that Chelsea brought was unlike anything I have ever experienced.

Yeah, but just pure, pure light radiating out of Charles.

yes. And and all .

her friends do. And her sister.

yes, in every they were also lovely. And I was like, Chelsea, i've had such a shit week, including getting the flat tire this morning and I was like, I think IT the universe rewarded me for putting up with this week with you, the Chelsea. Yeah, I just really believe that now Chelsea was iconic.

If you follow us an instagram, go find the Chelsea highlight and you will see just how iconic Chelsea. Yeah, just Chelsea from alaska. E's a fucking in biologists, you could never be as cool as jelly.

Never tried. Nobody can you. You should try, aspire to be as clues as Chelsea but I don't know if you'll get .

there but that's that's all that's gna be my new year's resolution is SHE just .

like be more like Chelsea yeah radiated a light that Chelsea really .

IT was the main and also it's so funny my def aand who we've talked about a lot of this one. Yes, I think he just takes to be said in all caps, did you see that ghost is going back out?

He just left. I was like me and I missed IT. I I wanted to see that library action.

right? I wanted, I wish I could have see him. But yeah, so a wonderful start to the week. Not grey last night.

but nobody IT was the end.

You know, my girl is feeling Better this morning. So hoping the bad that trends in the right direction and we got too good, good bits of news this morning.

So that was nice. I got to carve pumpkins with my life later and pretty stoked about that. See the plus .

behavior today.

It's a great monday. yeah.

And after this i'm going to go down on stairs. I'm going to watch more blue. E, mr.

fuck you. I'm I am going to watch blue by myself when I got to help.

Yeah, it's very coming. But before we do that, unfortunately, everybody, i'm gonna take you to a dark place. yeah.

Now, smokey season is never over here. Never is never over. but. You know when we are in the official spooky y season mode, we give you a lot of like the paraNormal stuff in the strange history, in the haunted stuff and all that. Um and now i'm gonna um going to a rip you out of that with a being she's like, come on here in the true crime car or back in the true crime car uh, we are doing a pretty A A pretty big one today yeah we are doing jero brutus, the foot fetish layer I .

didn't know his name is genome .

yeah that you might know as Jerry brutus I do I didn't feel like we were on that level yet. But I I probably will refer to him as Jerry because it's easier IT is yeah I don't know why I think i've only heard him is Jerry mostly I think just because he's widely known as Jerry yeah, if you've watch mind hunter, they portrays him in a horrified, accurate way on there.

The way they do that was like every killer that they portray, like ad camper that was so accurate I was like, did you hire ad camper to act in this show? Oh.

Richard back. And, uh, son of sam. You're like David berkowitz.

I was like, that's David berkowitz. Like, it's crazy. You brought him on the show.

Ki, D, M.

like, it's really scary if you ever watch mine. Hunter, it's, it's a brilliant show, and I was taken away from us too soon.

Yeah, kind of ridiculous. I need to .

finish season too.

It's pretty. I'm sorry. Can I just tell you one thing during this?

During I started dexter, oh, my godness. yeah. We've never seen that before.

I am so jealous that you got too experienced for the first time.

but I have to warn you.

we know the end is not going to. It's it's one of those. We've heard .

that the end is not quite .

like the beginning. No, no.

But everybody loves IT like so much like overall. So I was like actually druce at IT. He was like because it's on netflix right now. Yeah he was like, I ever watched texter and I was like, i've seen i've seen the episode of boy father because that's what .

mean to go each other.

but I ve never .

seen beyond that. IT is the first few seasons are literally like a maculate.

Yeah, we watched the, we watched the first half of the first episode, but I fell a sleep because I was after the night fair. So yes, but i'm ready to drive back in. You're going to love you.

Yeah, I really, really to love IT.

I'm excited for you. Sorry.

you just had to tell you that. But you know what? Back to back to business because, yes, here this is going to be a one.

So okay, this one up. Buckle up, everybody. So this is going to be two parts because there's just a lot going on. You're going to need a minute.

So this takes place over the years of one thousand nine hundred sixty eight and very well into one thousand nine hundred and sixty nine. Um IT was in salem organ. Several women went missing during that time.

I would later turned up, did all murdered horrifically and showing signs of being brutally tortured. At first they seemed like they were never going to connect these women and they were never going to figure out what happened to them. But luckily, finally, investigators question the friends of one of the victims who we will get to um and they finally came to identify their suspect and eventually arrested. Thirty thirty year old, it's like thirty, thirty years old. And when you look at you say that's a hard .

thirty yeah well, when you are hard full of yak, usually IT reaches .

a yeah thirty year old dome. Jerry brutus now ultimately Jerry was going to be convicted of the murders of jan witney, carn sprinkle and Linda Sally um and his capture and the study of his mind actually ended up establishing what would eventually become the FBI s behavioral analysis unit. Oh, really.

So he was part of that whole thing. So IT was a very, a very important capture, yeah, very important event, I would say, crime. So let's talk about Jerry, shall we? I guess unfortunately, we need to at least know what the fuck was going on with that.

I don't know a lot about his like you know childhood der like entrance into life. It's not great. okay? I mean, I had a feeling when yeah ended up doing what he did that IT really, really wasn't awesome. But then there are those cases where IT is fine.

you know yeah I mean, it's I feel like it's rare, but it's like a very nurturing environment. IT is yeah but he was born january thirty, nineteen thirty nine in webster, south dakota. And he was the second born to iran.

And Henry brutal S. A. Henry, the father. He was kind of like when he came to employment, he was very unstable.

He would find a work farming, you know, random, odd jobs. But he wants very good at IT. So he would end up having to move his family around a lot. So they were never they didn't really have a lot of stability. Yeah and at no point would the brutal s household be considered safe for supportive over for those children. Henry was a very insecure man because, again, he was not good at anything he did so you know, what is there to be secure about, I suppose you know yeah he was also an axle. He flew into a rage a lot like very quickly he could not accept any kind of criticism, what he deemed criticism um in iee the mother was referred to as a stalled d woman who dressed tly in plainly oh okay IT was made pretty clear from my lean the mother that jay's brother Larry was her favorite child that do he so fucked up when people like .

yeah like you can't announce to your favorite and also what is wrong with you .

that you have a failure that's insane like like .

it's like what that .

their change of itself is very strange .

to have a favor but then to go the extra step and announce who IT is is a thing .

like maybe you get along with one on like a Better level yeah and you feel like more of a connection there. Like maybe that's what you is starting up, but it's to then let the other one know that is mess up. I did not just like work on that, right?

Yeah so SHE SHE really SHE was very much more supportive of his brother Larry. And honestly, SHE didn't make any bones about letting Jerry know that he wanted a girl and he and he was hope he was a girl. Oh, no. So it's where it's a little. It's got some ed gee vives with the mother kind of thing where it's like these awful feelings of, like you are not good enough and you are not what I .

wanted and you lug you weren't supposed to be born even.

you know yeah SHE literally did not hide her disappointment that he was even born wow yeah .

that something and should not you have had children .

yeah and they didn't form a bb.

If you have that like I understand, you know like when you're like having kids being like like i'd love .

a girl or like i'd love .

a boy to be disappointed in what you get is insane.

You should be said that you have .

a healthy exactly.

It's like that. And because of this whole thing, like they never bonded and SHE never made any attempt to bond with that child. And then SHE was very abusive and hostile to him, his whole and just jury, not Larry mostly I think he was just to like, I think he was in general. But SHE very much took turing out on him, took IT mostly on Jerry. I don't think Larry .

god as .

much at all. So fuck. And later Jerry would describe his mother as stubborn .

in a selfish ego test. Oh.

okay, then yes. So SHE sounds like he was also like, very no, sir. IT does some kind of vibe i'm not diagnosing, but like, yes.

Now this one incident that Jerry could remember from when he was Younger definitely had a profound effect, the kind of thoughts s he would have later on. I'm not saying what he did later on. The like definitely let him into a strange thought process right one afternoon while expLoring an old junk yard when he was five years old.

That's good that he was just out in the junk yard at ard.

Like imagine my Young gest in a junk yard by themself no no um he was just you know he was out there five years old just expLoring a local junk yard and he came across, I know, and he came across a pair of pattern leather high heel shoes in the trash. awesome. And his mother was a very, very, extremely conservative woman.

So SHE did not wear high heels. He wore plain floats. And that was that okay? So he had never seen high heels.

So this was just something new term. He was just like, well, and he was kind of fascinated by them. So he took them home okay, because you know that he's he's five, he's fight yeah.

This show is sponsored by Better help. I need to thank two people in my life today, but the one is my husband. The two is my therapist.

I have to think my husband, because before I started seeing my theriere, he was my theriere. But then I felt IT was important that I hire a professional guys. This month is all about gratitude.

And along with the people that I just shouted out, there's another person that we don't think enough ourselves IT sometimes hard to remind ourselves that we're trying are very best to make sense of everything. And in this crazy american world, that is not easy. Here's a reminder to send some things to the people in your life, but always include yourself on that list.

I'm obsessed therapy, if you know me. That's one thing that you know about me. I think everybody should try therapy.

I think IT is super beneficial, and I think i'm a Better person because of IT. If you are thinking of starting therapy, give Better help a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible and suit to your schedule.

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And omega ss, i'm so excited. There are three different narrators. All of them have such good voices. I'm super picky when IT comes to the voices, but I love these gals, and i'm super excited to dive into this title.

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And so he's back in his bedroom and he's like playing with the shoes and he's putting them on themselves.

She's just swallow around like they're fun thing to and he was just kind of creating around his bedroom at five years old with these shoes, which honestly is so his mother caught him, which any I feel like in any other circuits this would just be like a friends like I help those are dirty fears like from the trash yeah, i'll get you some costume months but he did not take a well SHE, very different time. Yeah, very different time. And he was very conservatives.

So this was how he felt, no matter what. And he was furious SHE beatie him. He was very harsh on him. SHE like, punish ed him for IT and demanded that he get rid of the shoes.

It's, I got five years old. You don't understand what is why that's wrong?

Press, that is literally what happened.

It's not wrong anyways. But like.

he was why he would say IT, right. Like, and that's, I think he could not understand why he was angry, right? Like, why did that make you angry? I and do anything to upset and me.

I was not like anyone. I hurting myself, like i'm just playing .

with these things. I found that aren't hurting anyone. I don't understand what the problem is. And so he didn't think he d done anything wrong because he hadn't. And so he hit the shoes in his bedroom instead of getting rid of OK. In a few days later, he found him playing with the shoes again and he was even more angry and then forced him to watch as he burned them in the backyard.

Fuck, that's like statistic IT .

is just fuck and weird behavior like you're burning the shoes. What the fuck?

What are you going to do?

Like what are you're doing? And not only that, he then locked him in his bedroom for the rest of the day at five years old.

blocking your kid in their bedroom ever is a weird thing to do. But at five years old, like hello.

that's also like, what if they get hurt? That's a thing. I'm like, what what you're doing. And when he was finally let out of his bedroom, he immediately ran to the home of a neighbor who was a single woman that he had bonded with. This single woman kind of was like a standard onder .

ing like SHE kind took .

care of him a little bit like he knew what was going on.

Like, your mom sucks and .

it's like that sounds like this woman was like a real one like he was just trying she's trying to like be there for him and but he knew, especially at the time, it's like, you know in the thirties and forties and it's like she's not going to step in SHE doesn't know what the boundaries are here so she's kind of be in there for him when he can kind of thing and letting him into her home. Which i'm like, what a nice I do yeah like I wish that lady was more of influence in his life, to be honest.

Sounds like his mom was just there too much.

exactly. Well then unfortunately, a year later the family moved to revert in california and that's where Jerry started attending first grade. Um years later, Jerry would talk about this period as another significant moment in the development of his fetish.

I would later come out later, violent. okay? His first grade teacher would wear high heels every day.

And every day Jerry would just be fascinated with them in daydreamed about them. He just thought they were the pretty issues you could possibly wear. He loved them. I mean.

heels and I have heels. I yeah at this point.

yeah. And he was well known that this particular teacher would bring two pairs of shoes to school, a pair for work and a pair for the afternoon. SHE would like, change in the .

sneaker is kind of like my feet.

I'm good. Yeah and like I guess like you know, you would change in them like in the day one in one afternoon, when he could no longer resist the temptation, he stole the pair of high heels out of the teacher's desk when he stepped out of the room, and he hid them in the play area, and he was intending to bring them homely yeah.

but he was hiding them for later is so interesting.

But one of the children found them yeah and but you know, before the end of the day, brought them back to the teacher and nothing crazy happened from that. But I was just clearly a moment of like he's kind of taking IT further yeah by stealing them now yeah and this time in jay's life was also significant because he was dealing with a lot of health problems. Oh, in fact, during second grade, he missed a lot of school.

He was home a lot and in the hospital a lot with meals. Learn geos. He had two fungal infections that required surgery. And he also had, according to Jerry, he had problems with the veins in his legs and he would cause him a lot of pain and difficulty moving. Oh wow, yeah.

So according to him, he said the veins were ballooning and I had to have the because they were not doing their job. So I assume there was a lot of like circulation issues. And yeah, now the beautiful surgeries and other things he was dealing with meant that he had to stay at home a lot.

H, no. And that meant he had to be with his mom. And at this point in second grade, he had already come to despise her.

You're like us seven years old, literally. That's like, he like, that's sad. Yes, that's very sad. He spent most of his time trying to avoid her second, second great seven years old.

And like you know, a lot of Young people, these early life experiences are eventually going to kind of mingle within, like your adult experiences. They're going to create certain things yeah you know, fetishes, certain fears, certain rethink that you are attracted to, like things that repose you. Like this is your early childhood really does have a lot to do with that.

They call them their formative years.

exactly. It's like you're developer, you're developing is like such huge part of you and it's like that's where we all end up being in fuck in therapy and finding .

out these random things that you're .

like like a IT is trauma bed. A lot of IT is negative base, of course, these those core memories that form great .

things later yeah traditions and yeah .

things that you love and make you happy and things you know your career, hobbies. But these negative things really make their mark, unfortunately, and the poor relationship with his very abusive mother and feelings of abandonment, you know, those kind of things would lead to negative opinions about women in general as he grew there.

It's interesting how that happens. A lot with boys, yes, you know, like boys, especially like when they're Younger and they have such a bad relationship with their mom a lot of times that leaches into their opinions about all women because .

that's just like their first experience with a woman yeah.

I feel like the same doesn't necessarily happen with girls like as often no, yeah, it's interesting. Yeah.

I feel like almost lips a lot with girls where if you have a poor relationship with your father, you end up trying to seek out, yes, almost that without realizing IT yes, like you, you end up finding men that are like that, you know, and not necessarily puni shing them for IT but almost receiving the punishment over and .

over yourself. I was going to say exactly, punishing yourself. Yeah, an interesting psychology.

Yes, I IT really is. And so as he growled there, that his opinions about women were dodging, and also the secrecy y around his fascination with women's shoes, because he never group of that, he had stayed, and what he felt was like taboo excitement about them that he would get from them. He he kept growing and growing, and that would be fun.

I really like that a fish is a fetish, kink as a kink. You are nobody is here to shame anybody about that. You know what? What you like is what you like shouldn't shading someone. And the problem here was, IT took a sinister turn here because he wasn't just keeping the secret for his own well being. He was keeping a secret because he was taught to, and he was taught that he was wrong, and he was taught that what he was doing was disgusting and something shamed of.

yeah, his mom almost fetishized for him.

Yes, you know, it's true. SHE turned IT into a taboo, right? Because at first, when he was five, he SAT there and said, like, why is this weird? Like, why you think these are pretty? Yeah, these just pretty.

I just like, they shoot, right? And when he reached puberty and began to associate those feelings with other things, he would associate them with secure acy shame, an excitement with sex. But then IT was also transfused with being abused around those years when he was finding this thing that he liked, right? So he was associating IT with violence yeah.

And he was all kind of mingling into something really bad. Um this also kind of went with, he experienced death at a Young age as well. A childhood friend passed away, one that he was close to when he was very Young.

And then also that neighbor who was his only source of support, he passed away as well. Oh no. yeah.

So that also became stop with these feelings as he was entering puberty. And so he would forever associate his sexual interest in women's clothing and shoes. And that would kind of be fused with his resentment of women. And then I would also so fused with his fascination and kind of like um dealing with death at a Young age yeah so at all kind of fuse together and again, you never know when these things are going to fuse into one of these little ship balls of just nightmares ah because people grow through these things all the time.

People go through deaf at a Young age, people go through being interested in something that you you can feel ashamed about, that you've been thought to be shamed about, right? And you know, like people deal with study parents and study mothers and study authority figures all the time. Sometimes they deal with all three of them and they don't turn into this. So you just you just don't know it's like isn't a timing thing is that I don't know what's gonna refuse IT into that like shit ball that's gonna .

turn into this though it's it's weird .

how IT works now you just you can't you really can't predict IT now but by the time Jerry reached data lessons, the family had moved again this time to sell them organ um and that's where Henry brutal, the father was trying again to be a farmer and Jerry didn't realize IT but by this time where he was like reaching adolescence, he had already started developing particular sexual interest that he knew, whether from inference or whether was implicated to him he knew he couldn't discuss these sexual interests with others, especially his parents okay, which is a problem.

In fact, in the brutal s household, it's not like he could not just discuss these kind of niche and maybe taboo interest he was forming. He couldn't discuss those with his parents, but there was an air of secrecy and shame that was just around all sex. Yes, like sex was not talked about.

IT was treated as something that was disgusting and dirty like those are already problematic things that you're teaching your kids because that's not going to give them a healthy relationship with IT. But then he's got all these private fantasies that he's being taught were taboo and it's like you you infuse all that together and that's a mess he he's holding IT in. He's so eventually it's going to explode or he's gonna doing in the secret ways, which is going to lead to him like stealing things and spying on people and like doing IT in the shadows.

And you don't want that? Yes.

exactly. It's not good. I mean that no time did his parents ever explained sex to their children. Uh, sex education was not taught in schools at the time that.

So I mean, that make sense, obviously but it's like crazy yeah so that you need to know .

the way yeah that's the thing. So so what he learned about IT was what he saw on the farm put roll that around in your head no, yeah, he saw things happening on the farm that no one explained him, or from what, like little he could take away from like boy's conversations at school.

Yeah.

which okay, is also going to not be an education that you really want. no. So, yeah, no.

We're not coming in tat lessons strong. Yes, we're coming in guns blazing. Yeah, not in the best way.

no. So when he reached his teen years, his fantasies, we're already taking a violent turn. IT was, IT was pretty much on track. Unbeknown to his parents, he spent days digging a hidden tunnel on a rarely visited part of their farm. And in that tunnel, he would just sit there and fantasized about keeping a girl there captive.

Oh.

fuck yeah. And by his own admission, admission later, he said he didn't even know what he wanted to do with her there. He said he just knew he wanted a girl to be there and to not be able to leave.

Oh, no, Jerry.

He didn't even know. He said he didn't know enough about sex or what he was feeling. Think that that's why he wanted her there.

He just knew he had these like overwhelming feelings enough that he had to dig a tunnel and make that actually a reality. And he knew we wanted to keep a woman there. So which is like, so fuck in shilling.

And just the fact, like, obviously he was growing up at the time where I was, like, come home when the street lights go on, but the fact that he could be gone through that long to build a fucking underground tunnel, nobody, nobody, like nobody was.

And at the same time, he was already stealing women's under gardens and shoes. He would steal them from clothing lines, okay? And sometimes he would go to unlocked houses in the neighborhood and stealing or that's fucked in bold yeah so he's crossing lines in a big way here. He's jump in right .

over them yeah when you're breaking in the houses like locked or unlocked, that that's that return .

yeah where that's a place of no return a lot of the time yeah now these fantasies finally converged to injury. Was only sixteen years old. One afternoon, he stole neighbours underwear from her laundry line in, later approached her and offered to help her find her missing clothing. But when he arrived at his house a short time later, he just took her by knife point at sixteen years old and forced her to under us while he took pictures of her.

Where are his parents? That's what i'm saying. He's in his parents house doing this. Yeah, what the fuck and at .

this time, Jerry had been wearing A A heavy black mask so that the girl didn't see, see who he was. But SHE knew who he was yeah.

because he had .

offered to help her and he he came to out.

hey, said, hey, meet me at my house. yeah.

In years later, somebody asked her because he didn't report the crime to the police, okay. And years later, people asked her like, why didn't you report this crime? And he said, I knew who I was all the time.

I was scared if I told he would find me out and he would kill me. I mean not. I M so SHE. I mean, just knowing what he was doing. Mary, you know, he is capable a lot, but I think also, she's like, I knew who he was like.

I could tell that sounds like this is like a grown woman was like her own clothing line you and this sixteen year old kid to instill that much fear what I think he went through had to be horrida K A horrific.

And this whole incident had been the first four ray that he took into actual sexual assault um and well IT was probably unbelievably like something we can even found them traumatizing for this girl SHE was he was able to get out of there with her life fortunately but I was the victim right after her that didn't get away so easily so he did this to this woman.

which is unthinkable, and then immediately escalated to murder.

He escalated. He didn't escalate to murder, but he escalated, okay, he didn't get out of their own harm physically OK OK. So from the moment that the this first girl who we're not going to name um that got away like just and talked about IT later and said I didn't want to report IT um as soon as he left the house, Jerry was immediately fantasising of doing into another woman he loved IT, but he was worried he was going to get cut.

So eight months passed and still he didn't do IT again. But he felt confident after eight months that he could get away with another assault. So in one thousand nine hundred and fifty six, he lured a seventeen year old girl into his car, promising her ride home.

So as they drove, the girl became confused when Jerry started talking to her as though they were on a date. Oh, no. And SHE was like, this is not.

You're describing me home, right? Fuck, look, why do you think that? no. And her confusion turned to panic when IT occurred, her that Jerry had already driven well past where he was supposed to drop her off. Oh, no. And he was just driving further and further into a more remote part of organ is once they had reached a vacant location in his mind, Jerry pulled the car off the side of the road and hit the girl with a pipe in the face and then hit her in the neck and chest with IT my god, he was screaming ing trying to flee. But Jerry was much bigger um and he had already been beaten at this point so SHE didn't have her witz about her SHE didn't have any strength to get away SHE was just completely out of IT and he hit her several more times with the pipe and his fists and dragged her from the vehicle and demanded that he starts striping for him god and when he refused, he punch her in the face squarely in the nose and he started screaming again oh my god this poor woman unfortunately at the same time that he was punching her in the face and he was screaming a couple was driving down the road with their windows open oh my.

I think god and they heard .

the scream so the man, which was what a bad as man, he immediately pulled over the car to investigate and when they reached the location, he saw this large man looming over the screaming woman on the ground. So he ran right to her. And like, he was like, fuck this guy, brave and when he demanded an explanation, Jerry said he fell out of the car. She's just historical because I scared her and this guy was like.

fuck you like me yeah this point she's like bloody and like she's .

been beaten with a pipe and punched in the nose yeah .

bruises are probably farming and he like he just fell .

out of the car yeah and she's just scared .

why the coming over her then so this guy was like.

shut the fuck up I know that's not what happened so he changed his story and said, all well, actually, he was attacked by someone, by some weirdo. And he was fighting him off when I drove up and rent to help her all the hero yeah so according to Jerry, the attack ran off into the woods just before they. The other couple had driven up was like a thank good as your convenient but you just missed them. wow.

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And when IT was just him, in this relatively defenseless Young woman, Jerry had no difficulty asserting himself in beings horrifically scary but in the presence of anyone else when someone else came upon them, oh my, did he yield? He made up the lie, but he's right down uh, when the second explanation was also not going to convince the guy, he also was like, fuckyou, I know that's not you're the attacker.

I know that yeah, he was like, so when that didn't work, the couple insisted that they take the girl and Jerry back to their house to get this sorted out, and they were gna call the police. So he agreed in. Once they were there, the husband called the organ state police in.

They transported the girl of the hospital. Injury was taken to the police. Spiracles for questioning.

gave right up as poor girl, having never even get back in a car with him after.

oh my god, sing that and with another stranger like a holy shirt. So once he was in custody, he confessed everything to the police, just pop. He claimed he'd only wanted to scare her into taking off cloth so he could take pictures, and then he denied he'd ever done anything like that before, which we know is not.

He said his temper just got the best of them. No, unfortunately for Jerry, detective searched his car and found his photography a requirement in the trunk, which they very correctly interpreted as a sign of premeditation. So meanwhile, other officers went to the brutal s household and spoke to a lean, his mother, oh god, who gave them permission to search her sn bedroom because he doesn't doesn't give a show about him yeah.

And they have found a hidden bunch of stolen women's clothing and photographs of a nude girl clearly posing under the rest. Oh no, that was the first victim. Now, well, when I leam confronted her son about what they'd found, he claimed another boy had taken the pictures and forced Jerry to develop them for him. He said, I had to. He said he beat me up if I didn't.

Jerry.

Jerry, shot of go. Jerry was arrested in, charged with a solmet battery, which prompted the state authorities to take a closer look at his history. So they spoke with neighbours, and they discovered the previous assault the jury had committed against that original woman, who, a year later, finally felt safe, telling the authorities .

what had happened here.

Hostess in, given what they had learned, they discuss in what they found in jury's bedroom. He was taken to the oregon state hospital for evaluation OK, because they were like, something is very wrong here. Now, at the time, Jerry brutus was a sixteen year old, soft more in high school.

Oh my god. yeah. The fact that he already has like this kind of rap sheet is a soft more year .

like her series. He's already this brutal in sixteen years old .

that's horrifying.

And in in his interview with hospital staff, he said he didn't like a rough sports but instead prefered things like for h and boy scouts and photography and despite the circumstances is under what he'd been arrested for, he was very visibly uncomfortable talking about sex, like he had been arrested for forcing a girl to strip in front of him and he could not talk about IT, right? So Jerry told the doctors he suffered from knock turn al emissions about every two months. But he had, quote, tried to clive a clean life and didn't smoker.

drink. What is an occurrence? Al emission.

wet dreams. Yeah.

wish I never asked yeah in fact.

to all they were aware of the things he'd done, doctors still struggled to arrive at a diagnosis, I mean, or to even provide insight yeah, they were like, you are a strange one and I mean, he is yeah. In one evaluation, the psychiatrist route, the boy does not appear to be grossly mentally ill. He comes shining into the interview situation and sits down in a dejected fashioned talk with great embarrassment about his difficulty.

He tends to be evasive on a basis of his acute embarrassment and is somewhat rambling in robots in trying to tell his story. There is no evidence of suicide, homicide or destructive vergers wrong. He feels that he sometimes has trouble controlling his temper, but that has never got him into trouble, except on this last occasion when he maintains that he cannot remember to clearly exactly what he did, but was told, yeah but but was told that the girl received a broken nose, say god, his insight and judgment are questionable. He feels there must be something the matter with him and he hopes that he will be able to find that out and have IT cared here. strange.

yeah. I wonder if that was him pretending like he wanted help, if you actually did, or if he really wanted to?

Who know? yeah. Now, ultimately, doctors arrived at a diagnosis of adjustment reaction of adolescence with sexual deviation fetishism.

Yes, so despite having been convicted, Jerry was allowed to return to school during the day, but then he would have to go back to the hospital at night. Okay, yeah. So somehow this was kept secret from his peers at the time wall.

They didn't know about him being in the hospital. They didn't know about his arrest, so he wasn't dealing with any attention based on that. But after about nine months at the state hospital, the medical staff determined that he was no longer threat and he was discharged back into his parents .

care nine months as a pretty short time to determine that.

No, he was going to kill that woman.

Absolutely, he was.

In a year later, Jerry graduated from high school and enrolled at organ state university for a few semester before dropping out march in thousand nine hundred and fifty nine, when he joined the U. S. army. IT was sent to fourth gordon, georgia for basic training.

It's never good when these kinds of guys enter the army, because then they see some crazy and they get even more able.

exactly. For Jerry, the army was his first chance to be completely away from his parents, particularly his mother.

but you would hope would be a good thing.

But yeah, and he, he wanted to establish his own life. He wanted to let go, get away from what he had been doing. But his old habits and interests, or plaguing him, they could not be put away.

During the day, he trained at the signal core, giving him the opportunity to pursue his interest in electronics and communications. But at night his fantasies overtook, and he just couldn't get away from them. Not long after transfering to georgia, he became convinced that, quote, a korean girl was sneaking into the bar each night and crawling IT into his bed and .

trying to seduce them all right.

which i'm like, so he's silly, Cindy. Now, yes, he said I didn't want her and I came up fighting and beat her badly. He later said, and he said the scene would reply itself every night into him. IT was very real.

that a nightmare. Is that a straight up pollution?

Invenit must be a illustration, because no one else in the barrs ever saw a woman sneaking in, heard any noise like, right wasn't happening. Soon he came to dismiss this thing as a kind of fluctuation or dream, but he was disturbed. He said that the woman in his dream had aroused such hatred in him.

okay? He said he could feel how much he hated her. And he said he not only wanted the woman to stop trying to seduce him, but he also wanted to beat her. And at times he said, I wanted to kill her.

What the fuck?

Yeah, his revolutions later.

Like what of the yeah, I feel like we've never heard anything .

similar to that. Well, in interestingly here is he became concerned about his own mental health here, like he became self aware really, and he knew that this was a problem, that he felt anger and hatred towards this fluctuated woman, and that he wanted to beat her, he wanted to kill her. So he's consulted the army chaplain about IT wow.

And this army chaplain referred him to the step syc atrix kept in the adore berry. So after hearing the story about this woman and his desire to harm her, barry was convinced that Jerry was unfit for service. So on october fifteen and one thousand nine hundred and fifty nine, he was discharged under a six, three, five dash, two await, which is the determination that the individual is unfit for service despite reasonable attempts to correct the problem. Okay, now he was twenty years old at the time and now he's unemployed so he has no choice but to move back in with his parents, which I think is the worst thing that could happen.

Yes too, but they didn't like send him to some .

kind of like count ah right. But so he had to move back on the farm in organ, and he started sleeping in the spare bedroom. But not not long after he did this, Larry, his brother, returned home from college and his mother said that Larry should have the spare bedroom and he he said, Jerry, you go live out the old shed.

I'm sorry, what? Yeah also, was there not two bedrooms? The entire time both of them lived there.

they must have shared a bedroom.

What the fuck?

And now they're not allowed. No, he's not allowed to show the Better mobile ary. He has to stayed the old jet.

go living the old shed. I'm like, lady, your kid is already mentally ill and you're making him even more so.

Yeah, SHE sounds like a truly just piece of shit. The individual you have a child .

to make them live in a shed. That's your people.

You're a ship person ah you're just a ship person now frustrated in very, very isolated in the shed, he fell right back to his old habits and you know, he was trying to relieve his anxieties and his fluctuations. Now at first he was he went right back to stealing women's underwear and women choose like he had when he was a child and an adolescent. But IT quickly escalates one.

The evening, while Jerry was running errands in nearby salem, he spotted a woman in a red dress and started following her. When SHE reached her apartment doorway, he followed her into the dimly let vestibule, which is when he realized that someone was right behind her, and I followed her in before he could say anything. He grabbed her by the neck and choked her until he lost consciousness.

Right there a while.

he just dropped her body to the floor. He didn't know what to do next, though, so he stole the woman shoes and ran back to his car before anyone spotted him.

So that's IT. He just choked .

her into unconsciousness. This is the wild part of him, is it's like him digging the hall. He digs the whole, he know he wants a, he wants a woman to be in there, right? But he doesn't know what he wants to do with her, right? And even now he chokes this woman.

He does something physically violent, chokes her to the point of unconscious, and his drops around the ground and then says, I don't know what to do now and just takes the shoes. Why do I do that? Like.

what's my next move? I wonder. And I don't know if he just like black out in these moments, and like, does something like not black out because I think he fully has intentions to like do something. But it's almost like he enters this like different part of his brain where he does this and then he almost like comes to and is like, what am I doing?

Yeah I think I might be that he is so fucked up about sex and what he is interested in and what excites him and it's been and he's had IT drilled so hard in him that it's like shameful, all in taboo and secret, all the ship like violence and all this stuff is intermingle ling that he literally does not know what to do with a woman, right?

Like, he knows he wants to do something, but but he's so fuck and uneducated about IT in a healthy way that he literally doesn't know what to do next. He's like, I know I want to do something right and I know this excites me. I just don't literally don't know what the .

next step is right like he he doesn't know what .

sex even yeah like he doesn't even know what he's supposed to be doing in his like orange remind you know like very scary. It's very strange and it's like very different from a lot of these assets we've covered right now.

In the weeks that followed that.

a pattern started emerging where Jerry would become stressed and go out for a walk, and he would stock a woman he noticed on the street, follow her for a time, and then would attacked her choker, steal her shoes or other clothing items, and then he would just leave her and return to his shed on his parents farm, where he would fantasize and sleep with the shoes, and just like, touch the clothing. What the fuck and feel like he was like control again, or like feel some sort of power?

Yeah, yeah. That's very bizarre at a .

time in his life when he found himself again under his mom's like dominating ways and like abusive ways. I think the stocking and theft, he said later, gave him this like weird sense of empowers control that he was looking for yeah and he was so fucked up that that's the road that he took you know yeah i'm just like .

just even just picturing this in your head. You're just like like i'm just picturing him like following the sleep dux to a pair of shoes and like, yeah it's like that's not weird but IT is so fucking weird like the way that he goes .

about IT because you know they're stolen and off of unconscious woman that just attacked, right? And it's like, what is this about? Like, I mean, we find out what it's about.

right? And it's just so strange to get that violent and then to just like to escalate that far and then to just deescalate. So yes, I just like a sudden drop off his like go okay.

I got what I wanted like by, yeah got to go by and then he just .

relives IT and not harm them any further. Like obviously he harms them. What he does is so fucked but then .

just to take IT there and then ably and IT dip yeah like it's just and he didn't have any friends at this time. He didn't really have any home life like he's got nothing going on except his own. Anxieties and fantasies and shed life.

Yeah so apparently his professional life, though, is one of the bright spots like the only bright spot in his life. His training with the signal core had prepared came for career and radio communications. And after he had returned home, he found a job as an engineer with a small radio station in corvallis. Wow, it's a good job. Yeah and he was there that he met ralph's swinton er, who was a seventeen year old girl who was friendly and you know SHE was friends with a boy who hung around the radio station most afternoons so like Jerry ralpho, shy, timid, had basically no experience with dating and when he first met Jerry SHE was not in him. He was very unsuppressed which I blamer yeah um he was sixty six years older than her I was going to say .

he's well above seventeen at this point there is already an appropriate and SHE later .

said I probably wouldn't have accepted a date with him at all except that he asked me to go swimming and I love to swim I think any any chance to go swim in any time to jump in that water. You know what a queen. But by the time he was in his early twice, Jerry, hatred and disgust of women was well cemented. But he felt differently about real fine, I was going to say.

doesn't sound like he has hatred or discussed for her.

Yeah, most women intimidated him, which is why he hated, was discuss by, discussed by them. But rapine seem to be kind of easy going. SHE left at his jokes, she's Young. yeah. Lake seem to eventually care for him in a way that he had not experienced with any other woman like for that one neighbor when he was so I think maybe at hearkened back to that and while most people view Jerry as just a fucked failure and a loser, SHE kind of didn't SHE couldn't make up seen that way at least um and ralph was honestly SHE kind of show that he was a little like impressed by him at times like while he was not impressed at first. He like later became impressed with him like his knowledge of his job and all that and IT made him feel a little, a little good about himself, I guess, for the first time. But her parents was they were not impressed by him.

Yeah, because not like is a twenty four year old doing with the seventeen year .

old exactly her mother, whom Jerry described a stubborn and independent and said IT like an insult I was .

going to say, oh how horrible yeah .

SHE strongly disapproved of her teenage daughter dating a man in his twenty's um and her father fucked in love Jerry, I was and Jerry later said he felt because he was older that he could decide what we would do, where we would go all about.

I think he just felt because he was there for he, her father, that he was yeah so like.

fuckyou, Jerry, you're fucking creep. Now the fact that realf me was still a teenager probably had something to do with her being attracted. Jerry, in the first place to her.

He seemed more sophisticated than boy's her age. And the fact that her parents hated him only made him more attractive. Her, her age was also probably why SHE didn't notice any of the red flags. But older and older woman might have not picked up on ah he was very jealous he was very possessive ve very controlling um so when relpin became pregnant early on, Jerry proposed that they get married and SHE happily accepted theme in the .

way he later talked .

about that he said I wanted someone to sleep with and he wanted out of her home. Oh yeah, how beautiful. And somehow relpin later remembred things on pretty much the same romantic playing field. He said, while my homework was a good one, there was this feeling that getting married would be much Better than listening to my parents.

She's so Young.

I'm like, so true love guys.

I see it's just so sad, like, it's so sad at seventeen, you think you're starting, you think you're starting your own life and no going after your dreams with this men.

You get mixed up with this soul or no, they married in one thousand hundred and sixty two. And a few months later, ralphson gave birth to their daughter, Megan. Now, at first, Jerry and male finance life together was actually pretty happy and seemed ly IT was going well.

He would lab vish his wife and daughter with small gifts and attention. And as far as real fine knew they were doing okay financially, everything was fine. And even though realf in's attention was more or less dominated by the baby at the time, they even had a healthy sex life, like is a very Normal healthy sex life at first, okay, but then things turned a little bit and things started making healthy uncomfortable. Like whenever they were at home, Jerry insisted that they both be knowed.

Oh, just like at home at .

all times at home.

Okay, that's strange. And also you have a child .

like well that in that only stopped to a Megan grew from an infant to a toddle and ralphson said it's not appropriate for us to be new in front of our child so did stop but he was not happy about IT that's just but are yeah because he also is like requiring IT right? Like it's not like they both made this decision together that they're .

just like that what we exactly very different from like people who like what is IT like yeah isn't a notice I think yeah like whatever like .

that and not even noticed. Like it's just like some people they they like to be naked I guess I mean.

yeah go off queens and kings like live your best life but if we're not .

a naked households but like I know people have naked house.

I am not a naked housel out there but yeah you know that's just you but I also IT doesn't sound like this like SHE wasn't necessarily consenting to this no this .

felt very much like IT was him requiring yeah and he was probably happy to be like, okay, she's a todder er.

now we need to i'm glad that he was able to get through to him .

like that me too.

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Well, there was also jay's constant need to photograph is why while he was knowed or while they were having sex, okay, the black and White images or something, Jerry could develop himself at home because he didn't know how to do that. Yeah, SHE said he was like, that was fine. I guess like whatever that's in our house, he's developing them himself.

But then he had, he wanted to take color ones that had to be developed at a lab which mean other people would see them. no. And Jerry, I was like, no, it's fine.

This is Normal. No one's gona care about IT. They're not even going to blink an eye. But he said he never felt comfortable about IT. SHE didn't like IT yeah, which is not consenting, right? And he said he was also not comfortable with what he would have her do in the photos at times which like .

he probably got our phone yeah like .

there was times like SHE didn't mind like the casual shots around the house of them, just like living their life. But SHE said sometimes he he would insist that SHE pull in ison stocking over her face or where Spike tie heel choose and SHE just, SHE said IT made her uneasy.

Yeah because like you like people can have fetishes and that's completely find you like. We're not fatty shaming but if you're not interested in that fetish and IT probably feels very often wrong to you, you know.

like you IT is not okay. If your fetish is being forced on another person, exactly, you need to be in an agreeing situation with that person agrees and comfortable with engaging in your fetish. Yeah, that's what a healthy fetish .

there are boundaries into. I feel so bad that he felt like he had to do .

this and he was Young. So she's like really being forced into IT. And there's a power dynamic. Yes, exactly. And after a couple of years, what had gone as a happy marriage started to come evolve into like a difficult, frustrating and very confusing relationship for her. And the more preoccupied that wealthy became with their daughter meggan, because children require attention, the more depressed Jerry became.

But also, he doesn't know what like a good mother child bonding relationship is yeah.

he doesn't understand that why she's paying attention to her. And so he would leave the house. And when he left the house and spent a lot of time out of the house, he would engage in his own, his old habits and and when they were at home, real fee couldn't help but notice that Jerry seem distant and became very disinterested in their daughter, actually just ignoring her, pushing her away whenever he wanted his attention.

It's really sad.

In later, ralph would wonder whether Jerry resented Megan for taking up so much of her time. And I believe that is that sound. He became more depressed, more unhappy when he was at home.

And the more he isolated himself from his family and spent time outside the house, the worst I got. So by the end of the thousand nine hundred and sixty, his ability to resist his darker impulses that we know he has inside of him, they were weakening considerably. No, his path to becoming a killer was very long and very complicated, just only in the beginning of the .

one thousand nine hundred and sixty. The top of this, I think he said, sixty eight.

Yeah I was starting to enter the late sixties but I mean he's going through so many iterations of what his darker impulses are um and if you try to identify any one thing that pushed him over the edge into violence and brutality, I don't think you be able to to figure out what IT is. okay? But we know that an event that happened right before things got really bad was the birth of his second child.

And he was in late one thousand hundred and sixty seven. And so in jury's heads, somehow he believed witnessing the birth of this baby would somehow absolve him of all the bad things he'd done and would set him on a Better path. Okay, he said he just believed if he witnessed the birth of his child, he would become a Better person. okay? Which like that and of itself is not you're like, okay, I kind of get IT sure like it's it's .

my for miracle whatever you want to call .

IT yeah so he made relpin promise that when the time came, he would have one of the nurses come, get him from the waiting room and bring him into the delivery room so he could witness this. No, okay. Before when the time came, no one came to get him to see the birth OK.

And he tried to force his way into the room, but they were hospital staff actually blocked him and said he, they were given explicit orders from the doctor to keep him out so what fuck happened there? So this obviously devastated him because he had this whole plan um and then he learned that he was real fine who told the doctors not to let him in the room and so he demanded to know why why he would do that. Now this is horrifying.

So ralph explained that Jerry had always been so possessive and jealous of her that he thought IT best that he not witness what happened during the delivery of a child. SHE said. I didn't in this is the way he says this horrifies me, to be quite honest so I want everybody know a little bit of a trigger warning because this is a little graphic and work the way he says this in my opinion, SHE said. I didn't want you to watch another man play with me.

Um that's not what happens during .

birth no that that there's .

a nothing sexual about birth in anyway.

That's what Harrison es me is like.

The doctor is not playing with you. The doctor is delivering .

your baby and what happened relpin that you are suddenly like and I think it's like SHE is being conditioned into believing every part of her life is being sexualized in some way. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's dark.

Isn't that horrifying? Yeah, that's very dark. It's so dark, like, so dark.

And he told him, miss, okay. So this marked a big shift in their dynamic. This this moment. Jerry had always had to disdain for a woman, obviously, but his wife was never included in that because SHE, according to him, had accepted and loved him in ways that he had never experienced before.

And IT was because of that, and her review IT was because of that, that her refusal to allow him into the room, he felt IT was a huge betrayal like he took at as an trail. I kind of get that yeah right in his mind. I get IT why he where his mind is right now, why I would feel like a patricio team yeah and obviously like there's there's many layers to this because it's her decision, I mean like body that choice her experience of going up.

But I can see why. And his arranged mind right now, where his mind is very tranced at the moment, that he he had convinced himself that this was going to save him. This was his celebration. Seeing this right now, he took IT SHE and his mind took that from him, right? So he's twisting IT into something much far worse than what IT actually was.

That also just like from a trust same point. Like you have married, this is your second child and then like, you know, they have this plan or whatever and then to say, like no, at the last second he probably saw IT is like, oh, you don't trust me exactly there's so many layers and SHE IT sounds like .

he doesn't did yeah and IT sounds like what he had every reason not to you yeah exactly why would he? You can see where both of them are going from at this point. But my god, the statement SHE made about IT haunts me. I won the statement .

that haunts me. And also, that's just so sad like a lot of like I would say, like ninety nine percent of the time when you have a child would like a partner and you have a happy marriage, like that's a beautiful, amazing thing and to have IT turned into this weird, dark but trail, you know, like your moment of fear.

yes, and it's being sexualized, which is very upsetting. The whole thing .

is really just .

fucked yeah, baby IT shows you that, like, there is upbringing and how fucked up he was about sex. Yeah, he imprinted that on to her through their marriage because SHE, yeah. And IT obviously is manifesting in ways like this.

And what's worse is that night, after his child was born, after alpine had fall asleep, he left the house and went into downtown portland and drove the streets until he finally found a woman. They're caught. So the night that his child was born, he went out wow. And he watched and followed the woman for hours. As he went from one location of the next hours, he followed one .

woman and finally .

followed her home and watched her windows for hours until the likes went out.

Oh my god.

As soon as the apartment was dark, he crept into IT and found her sleeping in her bedroom. And now he slept. He started ramming through her closet, looking through her shoes, but he was noisy until he woke up and found this man in her fucking room looking through her closet ahh so before he could even scream, Jerry was on top of her, his hands around her neck.

He claimed he had only intended to render her unconscious so he could do what he always does, find the light, go through her things and leave. But as soon as he lost consciousness, he said he could not help himself. And he sexually assaulted her.

Oh, no. And then he stole her shoes and flood her apartment. What yes, yeah.

his mythology is so fucking where is the stealing of the shoes?

And IT gets weirder because after all that that's what he did. The night of his child's birth is second child's birth after the whole thing with alvin.

And she's thinking after that whole thing, she's like, I thought I was going to go downhill actually like, really fell downhill that but he said, strAngely, in the months following Jason, their son's birth, Jerry seemed to be getting Better, okay? And he said, this is sad, he said, unlike his relationship with Megan, their daughter, which was distant and cold, Jerry was attentive and engaged with his son. Like he was shocked at when he was home, he would play with the boy and talk about all the things he hoped do with him.

When he got older, whether went on errands, he, he insisted on taking Jason with him and even when of his way to take on some of the responsibility lie s around the house. Like allowing real phy to have a little time to herself as a new mom yeah like ideal. It's like what's the fuck? But of course, at the time he had no idea that despite how thie was making things look and how he was trying to put an effort at home, at least with one of their children on the inside, he was just trying to cover up the feelings that he was barely keeping. I have the surface like he was still, he had all kinds of ship, everyone in there that he was just tried to shop down.

That sounds like .

IT and IT was only jay's nighttime activities that he kept doing. Because he kept doing this, he kept sneaking in the women's houses kep, choking people in conscious, sexually assaulting people IT was only that that he claims kept him from exploding every day. So she's thinking he's just on the open up and he's doing horrible should at night to keep himself from doing .

IT during the day.

What what a start contrast there yeah. And by january of that year, he finally lost all control. no. On the afternoon of january twenty six thousand nine hundred and sixty eight, he was out working in the yard when he spotted a Young woman coming down the sidewalk. SHE was Carrying what appeared to be a very large book under her ARM.

IT was nine year old Linda slawson son, and he had only recently graduated from high school and rowchester, minnesota. And SHE had moved to aloha organ to start her first job, which was in selling in cycle pedia door to door. Okay, despite the long hours and a lot of walking involved, the company required their female sales agents to dress nicely and more high heels, even though they walk to everything.

That's great. yeah. So he was standing on the sidewalk and from the brutal s house and trying to figure out which direction you supposed be going into.

And IT started to rain. So SHE, you know, he just wanted to get out of the rain to get, you know, set those books that choose Carrying down. So he approached Jerry and said he was trying to find the address of a certain house where he had appointment to show these encyclopedias.

And SHE wondered whether he was his house he was looking for. Jerry looked her over for a moment, and he said he linger for a second or two on her shoes before he told her, yes, come on in. Oh, no. As they .

entered the house.

Jerry mentioned that his wife was having company upstairs. And he said, why don't we meet my workshop downstairs to have some privacy? Nothing, go over this.

So he went in the basement and SHE started giving her pitch on the encyclical pedia and just making small talk with Jerry as he started to lay out all the products on the countertop. And he was dark in the room. So SHE was fumbling to find the right brochures and stuff that he was trying to show him.

So he was a got, let me turn on the overhead lights. And he got up from his stool and went behind her. But instead of flicking on a light switch, he grabbed a length of two by four and swung IT at the back of her head.

My god. And his his wife actually upstairs, having company.

his wife is actually upstairs, all my god. yeah.

And this is just happening in her fucking basement. Yeah.

okay. yes. He knocked her from the store and center to the floor, conscious. And like we said before, since he had been an adolescent to teenager, Jerry had fantasised about kidnapping a woman in keeping her somewhere and just doing what he wanted, even though he didn't know what he wanted to do. And now he is just taken a step to make that a reality.

So he melt down besides land on the floor, and detected slight movement in her chest. So he wrapped his hands around her neck and began choking her until he was certain that he was dead. He choked her, the death.

oh my god.

In the days that followed this, he dressed in unstressed lind's body, putting her in the undergarments he'd been stealing throughout the previous months. And at night, after alpine and the kids had gone to sleep, Jerry would sneak down to the basement to rape her dead body and photograph her in various states of address. I did yet I did not know at that part of that that .

he was into that yeah that .

for nineteen years .

old and she's just doing her job and he was so fast .

and so horrific and and then his kids are playing upstairs.

I was just going to say, and his kids are upstairs and she's just in his wife is upstairs and his dead woman .

who he murdered is just in the basement .

job and .

he's just just living her fair warning. He's a brutal statistic. fuck. So like fair warning for the rest this I mean part two is gonna get somehow even worse so good. But after a few days when lind's body had begun to decompose, Jerry used to haxard to remove lind's left foot, which he kept in the back of the chest freezer in the basement.

Why he kept her .

left foot in a freezer in his homes basement with the shoe when the rest of the remains, he bungled up among some old car parts and through them, according him, over rail somewhere into the William rimmer. okay. And later, for reasons that remain unclear to this day, Jerry told investigators he, quote, didn't know where he disposed of Linda lawson son, but thought he was still alive. Once thrown over the railway, we're rAiling.

How would he think that if he d choked .

the life out of her exactly in spent days dressing her and and dressing her and like defining Murphy a yeah yeah so it's just he was a strange mother fucker yeah. When lynda failed to return home that evening that SHE was killed, her mother mildred, reported her missing to the police and told them SHE last been seen in portland, where he was going to self southern cycle pedia.

And her disappearance coincided with the disappearance of another local girl, a fourteen year old girl named Terry chAmbers, whose parents speculated he may be run away to join a quote, quote, hippy community in washington. So children, lawson insisted her daughter was not doing that. He had not run away.

He had never given any indication that he was unhappy. I wanted to leave home. But the two stories wound up being associated in Linda's disappearance was just treated .

as he was a runaway. Oh no. So like, meanwhile, SHE just graduated. SHE just got this job. She's literally out doing this job when he .

disappears and also when the parents are saying SHE did not run away, they do know their child. Yeah like you should at least take that into consideration. Now the photographs and souvenir Jerry kept from lindis lawson's murder appeared to have been sufficient enough to keep his urgence at bay for a little while, but by late november, the holiday period begin and the brutal s household was full of geri's raff's families.

Injury stress began spiking in the previous months. He would relieve his stress by looking at his pictures, or if he was particularly bad, he would go out proudly ling steal some clothing from neibban clothing line, like, do the same old thing. But since the weather has turned cold, no one was leaving clothes on the line in finding a new trophy meant that he would have to go inside a home. Now on the evening of november twenty six nineteen, nineteen sixty eight, twenty three year old jane Whitney was on her way to see her parents and midville and her car broke down. IT was on the I five freeway between seller and albany.

IT has have to point out this is ten months to the date of the last person. He, yeah, you're right.

This wild. That's weird. Now a few miles before this gene had stopped to pick up two Young male hit hikers.

So the three of them got out the car when the car died, and they were all looking under the hood. Note, none of them knew what to do. So they were just like, we got a, we got to figure what to do.

So Jerry Bruce, on his way home from work and driving down the I five, when he spotted all three of these people standing by the car, this is what's shocking. He spotted two men with her yeah and he pulled off to the side and got out to ask what the trouble was. And when he learned that the car had broken down, he said he'd be happy to fix IT, since he knew a lot about that stuff, but he didn't have the tools to do IT.

Instead, he said, i'll give all three of your ride. So he did. He gave them all, he put them on the car, and then he let the two men out of the car at the nearest off rap. Which I was like, what? So they could catch another read.

So hey, guys, maybe take this girl with you. Yeah, take her. Maybe don't leave a girl in a car with a stranger.

No, especially a girl that just gave you a ride. And he and then drove on to his house, where he said he would get his tools and take her back to fix the car. When they got to his house, Jerry went to the front door, but was soon back at the car, telling her the house is locked and I know, had my key.

So we're going to have to wait for my wife to come home, which is a way of soothing her until, like, my wife is coming home. Oh, I have another woman here. yeah.

He told jane, his wife, for a liba a few minutes, but in reality, real fine, had taken the the kids to a friend's house and wouldn't be back for hours. Oh god. And he do that. So while they waited, Jerry got into the back seat, behind the passenger seat, instead of making small talk. And he said, I said I was a funny thing to ask someone to close his eyes and try to explain how a tie issue like that was part of their small talk like, oh, have you ever tried to have somebody close their eyes and explain how to tie shoe? It's funny.

okay.

And SHE, he said, you know, without using your hands to show how when you can't see. And jane was like, okay. So SHE closed her eyes and started describing how to tie issue.

And while he did that, he reached down and grab the belt that was on the floor, in the back seat. And by the time jane realized what was happening that was too late, he had looped the built around her neck and pulled tight, choking her. When the belt was securely tightened around her neck, Jerry got out of the car.

And this is like, I don't know why this like really chose me. He got out of the car and closed the end length of the belt in the door, tightening IT even more and leaving IT so that he would not be able to until ten, like I was a constant pressure. And then he went inside to double check that real fine was really gone. And when he came back to the car, jim was already dead. He was strangled to death, a loan in his car.

and just outside of his house, it's so wild that he takes people back to his house, where he lives with his wife and kids, and murders them.

Yeah, like intentionally does that. yes. So he was he confirmed that he was indeed dead. And then he raped jane body and then he took her out of the car.

Is so in the car in front of his house, he did that, then took her out of the car and brought her down into the basement of the house and start of photographing her in the various underground and shoes he's stone from the neighbourhood. Jerry repeated these acts in the following days, like dressing her and dressing her, taking photos. And then IT would become clear that he would need to get rid of jan's body.

And he decided he wanted something more than photographs to remember the experience. This one's particularly heinous. I want everyone to know that this might be something that you've heard about this case, but maybe I didn't knows this case OK.

He later said, I thought I could make paper weights set of her breasts. So he said, I cut off her right breast and I was going to make a plastic mold. And then I could make a red paper weight, but I added too much harder, and I didn't turn out how I wanted. Oh, okay, now he was going to be making paperweights out of a woman's breast to use around his house. Ahh, and he was expecting to just be able to do that.

yeah.

Which is shocking to me.

makes you wonder what he was doing .

around that house exactly now. Certain that no one would go into his basement workshop because he always made sure that they did not. Jerry, the family took short trip to portland in for a few days, leaving jane body in his basement.

They do, that's gonna permit. The rest of the house.

yeah, well. And also, they were pretty surprised when they came back because they discovered that someone had driven a car through their door door, leaving a giant hole where the door had been. So the police came out, you, they wanted to get into the garage, but IT was locked, and he said that was close. But what, he ended up being able to give them away without them looking into the basement, that always happens. And even that wasn't enough to convince him to get rid of jan's .

body he's still capture.

Yep, he wrapped her body in a sheet and hit her in the pump house while the police looked over the garage. We while they were there. Yeah.

my god.

Then when the coast was clear, he took her body to well, met river and waited and waited her down, and then tossed her body in the river. Okay, now in jane failed to show up at her parents house in mgmt villers, remember, he SHE was on her way to her parents house, right? Her father, john Whitney, reported her missing immediately.

In a day or two later, James carr was found on the side of the road with all the doors locked, and investigators were able to get into the car and found that there was nothing to indicate that SHE. You know why SHE disappeared and really other than a camera found in the back seat in her bags, there was nothing of note in the car. And police had a film in the camera developed and discovered photos indicating SHE might have had a flat tire that day.

But that was really all the head, and IT wasn't really a lot of help with a leader. IT was just like, did someone help her? great.

And was that the person? But we don't have anything to go another than that, right? And nearly a year past between the murder of Linda lawson and jan witney, but far less time would collapse between the next kelling yeah.

because he's heaven up and he's getting bold, more and more bold. I mean, the police stress came to his house and he was able to fuck and hide a dead body.

They were there. And you would think that would be when there would be a here between murder, but he takes less time now he goes right back into IT.

I think that makes more like I think that makes sense because he was able to get .

away with that. So he's so and and that's work where we're gonna leave part one because knew what you bitch, because where party is gone to get somehow even worse. This is all terrible.

He's a really, really bad man. He's a really, really bad man. And it's gonna be a lot. So just please be aware of that.

I feel so bad for these women, for these Young en like and for his wife and children who were just living in their home while this was going on.

unbeknown ce to them yeah no idea what's going on. Just hit the the shit luck of having him as a father yeah.

seriously.

you feel so that terrifying. Yeah, so sorry about that. everybody.

We will see for part two.

we sure what. In the meantime, we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep IT we but not sure that you will be sAiling .

people's undergarments because what the fuck is wrong with you?

Yeah, don't do that.

And that's a really you mean your kids if you don't want kids.

don't have kids? Yeah, don't be a dick. byebye.

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In a quiet suburb, a community is chatted by the death of beloved wife and mother, but this tragic loss of life quickly turns IT to something even darker. Her husband had tried to hire a hit man on the dark web to kill her, and SHE wasn't the only target because buried in the debt of the internet is the killest, a cash of chilling documents containing names, photos, addresses and specific instructions for people's murders.

This podcast is the true story of how I ended up in a race against time to warn those who lives were in danger. And IT turns out convincing a total stranger someone wants them dead is not easy. Follow careless on the wound. Wherever you get your podcasts, you can listen to kill list and more exhibit cy true crime shows like more bds early and add free right now by joining one plus check out exhibit sea in the wonder out for all your true form listening.