Episode 546: Matthew Wales and the Society Murders
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It is morbid. What's up, bro? It's rainy out. It's so gloomy. It's been gloomy this whole week. It is very gloomy, which I like. But when I didn't sleep well the night before, I don't like it. Yeah. Because it makes me tired. See, I actually slept totally fine. Let's just talk about our sleep patterns. I slept totally fine last night. But then I woke up this morning and I felt so tired immediately because of the gloomination outside. Because of the gloomination. The gloomination. It's a rumination of gloom. It is. It is.

Absolutely out here. Yeah. Which again, normally I really like it. I like rain. I like the gloom. I feel like this would be good writing weather for you. It is very good writing weather. I always get like super, super motivated and inspired in this kind of weather. This weather makes me want to curl up on my couch and watch mermaids with Cher. Wow. Yeah. I didn't see that.

That's what it makes me want to do. That particular film. Have you ever seen Mermaids? No. Cher, Winona Ryder. I've seen, I know what it is, but I've never seen it. I don't know that you'd like it. Who knows? You know, I still, I still got to keep giving you credit for making me watch Saltburn. That's true. Give me all the credit. I'll give you the credit for that. Give me your, your credit card. I'll keep giving you credit. Give me everything. Give me everything you have. Because of Saltburn. Because of Saltburn. Yeah.

No, you know what? I like to watch like, this is when I want to watch like Urban Legend. Oh, yeah. That's my comfort. I could get down for that. Or Scream. Yep, Scream, definitely. Scream is a comfort movie. Oh, Scream. That makes me want popcorn, but I packed it in my lunch today. So I'm excited about that. There you go. Yeah. I didn't pack my current hyper fixation snack, though. I finally have one. I think when we were talking to Kurt and Sabrina, I don't know if that episode came out yet.

It did not. It did not. It will, though. It will. And you'll hear me say, I don't really think I have a hyperfixation snack. I think we were recording when I said that. It also might have just been in conversation. All that to say... The song might be fake. All of it. It's not a true story. But all that to say, I think I found my hyperfixation snack. And...

I should figure out the TikTok early. I'm going to do that later. Who recommended it? But it's popcorn, dark chocolate, like chocolate chips, and then maple glazed pecans mixed together. That does sound great. It's so good.

Welcome to the world of hyper fixation snacks where you will hate that eventually and you'll have to take a long break from it. Oh, you have to hate, you get, you end up hating it? It's part of the hyper fixation process. I'm also hyper fixating on this oatmeal. Yeah, you, you will, you wear it out. You wear it out until it becomes a thing where you're like, I don't even want to look at that anymore. Oh, that's terrible news. But then you'll loop back around eventually. And say I really need that. You just gotta give it some time to breathe. Okay. Yeah, that's happened to me many times. Oh, cool. Cool.

Yeah, I'm also making this oatmeal that I'm fixating on. Look at you. I'm not pregnant. I feel like this is like giving the vibe of like, I love these snacks all of a sudden. Oh, no. Yeah. I think everybody likes a weird snack. But well, then I've also been posting that my cat Franklin has been really snuggly with me lately and people are messaging me asking me if I'm pregnant. Yeah, she's not pregnant. I'm not. I like just got married. Yeah. That'd be a lot.

But Franklin's just being sweet. He is. So there's that. I know. Did you see the thing I posted of him last night? I did. I love him.

She's such a cat lady. I love it. I am. She's that lady that will be like, do you guys want to see photos of my cats? No, I am not. And then she'll show you through. I am that lady. And I will show you pictures of my cats. And you better want to see them. And she's going to want a reaction. Yeah, you better react to my cat. Give the proper reaction. Don't fuck around. Tell me how cute he is. Cry. Cry.

Cry right now. Cry at how beautiful these kitties are. No, I did have a moment last night where I was like, what if we got like one more cat? And then I was like, no, I didn't say that because Drew will say yes. He's also a crazy cat man. Don't just go with it. But no. Three is the limit. Yeah. I don't want to push it. Don't push that limit. No. No. No. No. You gave me a, Mike, you just gave me a look like do what you want. No. Don't let me do what I want. Don't do what you want. Because eventually I'll be like, why do I have so many cats? Have boundaries.

But, yeah. That's where we are. That's our banter for the intro. So there you go. I have a case from Australia today. Australia? Australia. And for all those out there who don't like the old-timey cases, this one's for you because it's not that old. Hey, there you go. It's in the 2000s. I think, you know, old-timey cases are making a comeback, I think. Yeah. They are, personally, I think. But this one...

is also not old. Well, there you go. I don't know why I said also. I was going to say, I love that. It's just not old. Not old and also not old. It's not old, but I guess to some people it might be old because I don't think of the early 2000s as that long ago, but it really is that long ago. It is, but I feel like the 2000s are... That's current. Pretty modern to me. Agreed. Well,

Well, this is the society murders which took place in Australia. And one of the victims, there are two, is Margaret Wells King. So let's start with her. Yeah. Margaret Wells King was born Margaret Mary Lord in Melbourne, Australia on June 16th, 1933. She was the oldest of two children born to Robert and Doreen Lord. I really like the name Doreen.

Yeah. It's cute. It is cute. Now, initially, this family was like a really working class family. Margaret's dad, Robert, worked as a commercial truck driver and in her younger years, or like during her younger years. And then eventually he started a road construction company of his own in the like 1940s-ish. Throughout the 1940s and 50s, he was...

really doing steady business. And by the 60s, his company had actually become one of the largest road construction companies in the entire region. Wow. Which made him and his family hella wealthy. Hell yeah. They had a lot of money. This is the society murders, so. It is. Knew that was coming. Exactly.

Now, as the daughters of what was now one of Victoria's wealthiest families at this point, Margaret and her sister Diana grew up with everything they could ever want. Of course. They wanted for nothing. They went to private boarding schools for their primary education, a private girls' school for secondary education. Goodbye. And after graduating from high school, Margaret herself went on to pursue a degree in business.

By then, it was the early 1950s, and that was when she met Brian Biggles Wales, an airline pilot. Biggles? Biggles. What an adorable name. I know, right? I love that. They hit it off immediately, and they dated for four years before eventually getting married on June 17th, just one day after Margaret turned 24. Wow.

So once they got back from their honeymoon, Margaret and Brian moved into Margaret's parents' home in Camberwell. And that was after her parents had moved into a smaller home. So like Brian and Margaret took over that house. They didn't live with the parents. Yeah.

A year later, Margaret got pregnant with their first child, Sally. Sally was born in 1958. And then four other children quickly followed. Damien in 1960, Emma in 63, Prudence, which I love. Prudence. I love that name. She was born in 65. And finally, Matthew in 1968. So Margaret and Brian, they were able to raise their children how they had both grown up because Brian was from a pretty well-off family too. Yeah.

And they both together wanted to make sure that their kids had every privilege, every opportunity also available to them at the time. Yeah, of course. So as a family, they split their time between their home in Camberwell, a vacation home in Sorrento, and they just bopped around to like lots of expensive and exclusive locations around Australia. They were living like this beautiful family life, the high life, like everything was pretty perfect. Yeah, sounds it. Yeah.

Now, the first decades of their marriage, they were really, like, ideal, you know? But, like I always say, by 1968, the cracks started to show in their relationship. As a commercial pilot, Brian was away from home for long periods of time, quite often, which left Margaret responsible for all five children on her own.

That's a lot. That's a lot. Like, it's one thing to stay home with, like, two kids. Even that is a lot. I can't picture that. But with five? Yeah. I'm like, that is so many children. I can't even.

So not only was she like overwhelmed, but she's also starting to feel really lonely because like you put all the kids to bed and you're just sitting at night by yourself. Yeah. And she's just, I'm sure all day she's just kind of tending to everyone else's needs. And it's like that wears a lot out of you. Yeah. So in 1968, while on vacation in Brampton Island in Queensland, Brian actually struck up a friendship with fellow vacationer Paul King. Wow.

Both men were around the same age. They shared a lot of interests. So they met on vacation, but they also lived pretty close to one another in their homes in Melbourne. So when the vacation on Brampton Island ended, they were like, why should our friendship end? We live so close to each other. We met by happenstance. Let's hang out when we get home. We're best friends. What the fuck? They were like, did we just become best friends? Yup. For now. Uh-oh.

Over time, they started including Margaret in their plans and quickly all three of them became best friends. Wow, this sounds so nice at first. It does. And I've never heard of this case, so I don't know what's going to happen, but I know it's not going to be great. I'll let you know. Okay. Yeah, as we go on. Awesome. So the friendship between Margaret, Brian and Paul continued actually for several years. Like this friendship went on for years. Okay.

However, unbeknownst to Brian, Margaret and Paul had been carrying on an affair while Brian was away working. Oh, no. Yes. So they were best friends, but also like not at all. Not at all. Not at all. Foe. Mm-hmm. And by the mid-1970s, their relationship, Margaret and Paul's, had become serious. Yes.

So, and at that point, Margaret and Brian's marriage had effectively ended. Like, it was all done. According to author Hilary Bonney, when Margaret's father died in 74, thus securing her vast inheritance, Margaret and Paul decided to go ahead and make their relationship public.

Bonnie wrote, within days of Rob Lord's funeral, Brian Wales moved out of the family home in Camberwell to the Sorrento Beach House, and Paul King moved in with Margaret and the five children. So Brian just like, Brian met this guy, became friends with him, and then Brian has to move out of his home, and this man sweeps in. So this other guy who was his best friend, or was supposedly his best friend, swoops in and literally lives with his children. Yeah. Yeah.

Holy shit. It's a big traumatic event for everyone involved. That's very gnarly. It is. And not surprisingly, the end of Brian and Margaret's relationship came as a shock to almost everybody who knew them. Yeah. Especially their kids, who found this transition really difficult. Like, this is intense. Margaret and Brian officially got divorced in 1976, and they did share custody of the children. Yeah.

But Brian's poor ability to cope with the divorce took a toll on the rest of the family. Like, I don't think he was really able to get over this, and it did affect his parenting to a degree. Because it was such a betrayal. Absolutely. On both sides. Yeah. According to that same author, Hilary Bonney, the older Wales children bore the brunt of their father's depression and endured long conversations with him about the loss of his adored wife. Oh, God.

So it's like, because you have to remember, he didn't lose just his wife. He also lost his best friend. Yeah, that's like huge. All at once. And like his family, his home, he lost everything in an instant. I can't even fathom that. So do I think it's right to like confide in your kids and make them like your closest confidants? Maybe not. No, unfortunately not. Because it's like your kids...

Unfortunately, your kids should not have to bear any of the weight of what's going on in your life. They just shouldn't. In my opinion, that's how I parent. They should never have to shoulder any of my personal issues or what's going on in my personal life. But at the same time, I understand that this man is human and that he's alone. And you can see how this would happen because the kids are like older teenagers at this point. I know because that's the other thing when they...

I don't have older teenagers so I don't know how that dynamic changes and I'm not going to pretend that I do. And it does change. You're right. That's a great point. It's a change in the dynamic so it's like maybe he just felt like he could. You know what I mean? Because you want to have an open relationship with your children and you want to be able to talk to them about things.

You just, it's, you should, I, personally, I never want to cross the line of like burdening them with my problems. You know what I mean? Like I want to talk to them and be open to them, but I never want them to feel like they have to shoulder any of my, the weight of what I have going on. You know what I mean? Agreed. But once again, I've never been through that kind of trauma that he went through. No.

And I don't have older kids, so I don't know what the dynamic is. And this wasn't necessarily a time where, like, men specifically were seeking out therapy. Absolutely. You know, like, seeking out – nobody really was seeking therapy in general. Like, it wasn't very talked about at this time period. And you know he's not intending to.

No. To burden them with the weight of what's going on. You know, like he's not going into this being like, let me fuck my kids up by telling them. You know, like nobody intends to do that if they're good parents. Well, and it's probably starting off as like discussions of like how it's affecting them too. Just a conversation. Like they're all going through this together. Yeah. And then he's probably just oversharing a little too much of his own personal feelings. So it's just sad all around because you understand there's a lot of human emotions happening. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

While Brian had what Bonnie describes as unlimited access to most of his children, for some reason Margaret did choose to restrict his access to their youngest son, Matthew. Brian later recalled, I did not have much to do with Matthew. I felt like this was mainly because Margaret and Paul wanted it to look like Matthew was their child. Because Matthew, I think he was like seven when this all happened.

And they just stopped him from being able to see him? Or like restricted the access? He could see him, but it was very restricted. Apparently, just after their divorce, Margaret told Brian that Paul would be a better father. And because Matthew was still so young, she didn't want Brian to, quote, exercise any fatherly influence over their son.

Oh my. Yeah. It was a messy, traumatic divorce for everybody involved, it sounds like. Jeez. Yeah. The divorce itself was definitely traumatic. And it was a very dislocating experience for all the Wales children. But the specific treatment of Matthew with regard to his relationship with Brian...

really only made things worse for him in particular. Yeah, I think that's a poor choice. That's a poor choice. That's opinion-based, but I agree. Totally opinion-based and very, you know, I don't know all the details and ins and outs of what's going on, but like,

It just doesn't sound like to keep him away from his real parent. Yeah, who's been his dad for seven years of his life and then to replace him. A little bit with this new guy that was your dad's best friend. Yeah, it's just... That can be a little messy here. Well, it did prove itself to be messy because within a few months of all of this, Matthew started showing signs of behavioral problems. Yeah. Yeah.

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Now, with Margaret's inheritance having been fully dispensed, or dispersed, excuse me, and Paul's wealth already stable, the newly married couple lived an even more privileged life than they ever had before, which is really saying something because they were already living like very wealthy people. Now they're like even wealthier. The children split their time between their home, time with their father, weekends at Paul's cattle ranch.

Prudent said, during this period of our lives, mother was really generous and we were all very spoiled. We had a beach house. We had a unit at the snow. We had several farms with animals, horses, and had some pretty amazing trips overseas. Wow. So there were good times. And the older children were called life after their parents' divorce as mostly positive. But at the same time, they did have a hard time embracing Paul as any kind of father figure, like the older ones. Because like I said, they're...

maybe like 12 to 18 at this point. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, that's tough. And again, he's been in their lives as both of your best friends. Yeah, that's the thing. And so it's not like this is a new guy or something, you know what I mean? That like they just are having trouble getting used to. It's like-

The whole relationship was different before, and now I understand having trouble figuring that out and navigating that. It's not like their parents just got divorced and this guy came out of nowhere. Like you just said, they know who this guy is, and I'm sure they were pretty aware of the situation that ended everything up here. Well, that's the thing. It's like you guys were all best friends.

They know their dad was away a lot. They're going to put two and two together, especially the older ones. And it's like they're going to understand what's going on and they're going to have a little resentment. They're going to have resentment. It's just going to happen. And really for that reason, they, like I said, they didn't see Paul as a father figure whatsoever. And they didn't really respect him at all. No, and you can't, I mean, that's...

That's trauma, man. It is. They actually used to refer to him as the butler or the shadow because he was said to be really subservient to Margaret. Oh, wow. Matthew's experience, Matthew's the youngest one on the other hand, seemed to be pretty different. Like I said, he was still young when his parents split and...

I was right. He was seven years old. Okay. And because he was deprived of a relationship with his own dad, he did start to see Paul as more of a father figure. Yeah, because he's young. He's young and now Paul is really the main man in his life. So he did develop a pretty healthy relationship with Paul. Well, that's good. The vast difference in their experiences, though, created a rift between Matthew and the rest of his siblings who kind of looked at his...

ostensible allegiance with Paul as a betrayal to their father. Oh, see, and this is so hard. But it's like, he's seven. That's the thing, because he's a child. But then it's like, you're all so young. Like, I don't know exactly how old everyone is. Yeah, and you're siblings. So it's like, there's a whole different dynamic here. And it's like, oh, I just feel like this is so hard. Like, I hate that these kids had to deal with all this. It's a lot of...

just tumultuous shit going on. It's like family politics that they shouldn't have to deal with yet. That's exactly what it is, family politics. You shouldn't have to deal with it until you're older and you can just be like, shut up everybody. And you just recognize everything for what it is. Well, and it's, so they also, they see that Paul and Matthew have this like good relationship and they're like, fuck that. Like, we hate this guy. Not hate him, but like, we don't like this guy. We don't respect him. And then also, some of them did feel that Margaret, the mom, favored Matthew. Yeah.

Oh, okay. So Matthew's sister, Emma, later told police, Mom adored Matthew to the stage where we used to call him Golden Boy. Oh, boy. So there's a lot of different dynamics going on here. A lot of different dynamics. Now, while some of their resentment of Matthew was rooted in how Margaret prioritized him over her other children, there were other things about Matthew that the rest of the Wills children found irritating and off-putting. One of them was that he struggled considerably with his schoolwork.

I think that probably like they resented that maybe because it took Margaret's time away from the rest of them. Yeah. Cause I was going to say, why is that really? That's when I looked at that, I was like, I don't understand. I think that's his wife. I like, I don't understand why that would bother you. That's what I thought too. But I'm like, maybe it just took,

a lot of Margaret's time. Yeah, I could see that. He also had a very hard time developing healthy social skills, they felt. He lied constantly. And by the time he reached his teenage years, his behavior was getting way worse and he was having more frequent violent outbursts that made him really difficult to be around. Yeah. And just a trigger warning here for animal cruelty. Oh, no.

Emma recalled he was very cruel to animals. I used to tell mom, but Matthew would lie and get out of it. Now, this included, among other things, quote, crucifying flies when he was four, impaling eels when he was eight, and at 10, he tied mice by their tails to the back of his motorbike and drove around the farm with them. Okay. He was disturbed from a young age. That should be the biggest of red flags ever.

Yeah. Like that should be the biggest of red flags. It absolutely should be. And this started, and if you did skip over that, I won't go into detail anymore, but the animal cruelty started when he was four. Yeah. Which I feel like is worth noting. He was seven when the divorce was finalized. So this was already happening. This was already happening. Who's to say that it, like the relationship between Brian and Margaret wasn't already tumultuous. I'm sure it probably was. Yeah. Yeah.

But he's four years old and he's displaying this behavior already. Like, I feel like that's an innate behavior. Oh, you got to nip that. You got to do something. Like, I'm telling you, the cruelty to animals thing... That's scary. ...is such a red flag. And I don't know if you guys can hear Blanche. She's pissed. She's like, hell yeah. She's like, it's a big fucking deal. Woof, woof. And it is. But yeah, cruelty to animals I feel like is...

It's always something to be concerned about. It's a big red flag. Because it can turn into a lot of scary things. And in this case, it does. So Emma, you know, she told us like everything in detail. Matthew's brother, Damien, put it more bluntly and just told police, Matthew was a prick of a kid. We were never close. Wow. All right. Yeah. I hated him always. He was an asshole. Yeah.

You guys are siblings. Can't fault you for having feelings. No, and I mean, if that's what he's running around doing, I would also call him a perk of a kid. Yeah. So the older Will's children, they have some more memories of their childhood now, but

But between their inability to accept their mother's new relationship and Matthew's increasingly violent behavior, life in the Wales home was definitely an ongoing struggle for everybody. It was highlighted by lots and lots of good times, but there were also really shitty times. Yeah, there was some dark shit happening. Yeah, dark shit happening and a lot going on.

So the rift continued to grow between all of them as one by one they moved out of the house. And by the time Margaret and Paul were finally married in 1995, none of the children were invited to the wedding. Whoa. Which like that goes to show you that obviously I've named some instances here. There was a lot more going on. They weren't even invited to the wedding? None of the children were invited to the wedding.

That's bleak. That's really bleak. So now going back a little more in depth to Matthew without the animal cruelty, don't worry. He really struggled to make it through high school. One teacher put it pretty much as bluntly as you possibly could. She said Matthew was wasting his and everyone else's time both in class and out of it. Wow. Yeah. Okay. But despite those struggles, he finished high school in 85 and attempted to enter the working world. But he was fired from his first job at a hardware store after just four months of being employed there. Wow.

Yes. Rather than look for another job, he decided that he was going to study at the John Morey School of Hairdressing. And after completing the 20-month apprenticeship, which that is a long apprenticeship in comparison to what you do over here. Oh, really? I was like, damn, that's a long apprenticeship. He took a job at one of the John Morey schools or salons in Melbourne after he was done with his education. So he found a job for himself.

He would spend the next decade working for the Mori salon chain and then ended up opening his own franchise in Knox City Shopping Center in 1997. And he did build a small but loyal following. So he was doing pretty well for himself.

He might not have had the mind for academics in some people's words, but he was good at hairdressing and he didn't seem to struggle managing his small staff. He took care of administrative responsibilities. Which that's all not easy stuff to do. No, running your own business is hard. Running a salon, I'm sure to some people it doesn't sound like much, but there's a lot that goes into it. Oh yeah, admin alone would fucking ruin me. I fucking hate admin. Yeah, I'm not good at admin. Not at all.

Like either of us. I wasn't saying like she's not good at it at all. At the salon's peak success though, Matthew was earning between $1,500 to $3,000 a week. And remember that's back in the 90s. Yeah. So that's pretty good. And he was consistently busy. The professional success did a lot to prop up his ego after a lifetime of low expectations and disdain from his teachers and his family. Yeah.

It seems like in this little period of his life, he was like proving himself to himself. Yeah, he was flourishing a little bit and finding himself. Yeah. So when he wasn't working, he spent his time partying, going to bars, clubs, looking for ladies. He's in his early 20s. Yeah.

This all came to an end, though, in the late 90s when he met Maritza Pizarro, a sales assistant at Meyers Department Store, which was actually in the same shopping center as his salon. Oh, okay. They initially met when she was going to the salon for regular appointments, and after a few months, their relationship just grew and became romantic. Okay.

And after a few months, they ended up moving in together to Matthew's home in Malvern, which had been purchased for him by a trust set up by Margaret Wales after he turned 18. Ah. So it was his house, but like Margaret bought it. Yeah. So...

While Matthew was completely in love with Maritza, he was nonetheless cognizant of how her working class immigrant background might be received by his wealthy family. Oh, geez. So Maritza was born in Santiago, Chile in 1963. And her family actually fled Chile in 1976 after enduring three years of Augusto Pinochet's dictatorship. So they literally lived through a dictatorship. Yeah.

But they were able to escape and establish themselves in a Melbourne suburb where they worked really hard to build a solidly middle-class lifestyle. Like, she came from a great family. Yeah. Yeah.

And despite coming from a thoroughly respectable family, Matthew insisted that his family thought of Maritza's family as just a bunch of W slurs. I'm not going to say this word. I don't actually, I've never heard of it before, but it's a derogatory term used in Australian slang to describe people of Indian, Mediterranean, or Middle Eastern descent. Oh, okay. So I don't want to say a word that like I don't know the weight of it. Yeah, absolutely.

But that's how he said his family thought of Maritza's family. Oh, boy. So racist vibes going on right now. Yeah, not great. Not awesome. It's unclear whether or not Matthew was exaggerating so that he could just keep some distance between his family and his new relationship. But later, his sister Emma did describe Maritza to reporters as a common vulgar little gutter snipe. And she said that Maritza, quote, would say shocking things and everything seemed to have a sexual connotation.

So they did not like her. She sounds awesome. Yeah. Like she sounds hilarious. She does. A vulgar little gutter snipe. Like, get it girl. She's like, I don't like you. I don't like you. It seemed that Matthew's siblings perceived his relationship with Maritza as similar to the relationship between Paul and their mother. And remember, they saw Paul as being very subservient to their mother and they felt like their mother made the rules. Yeah.

Emma also said that Maritza, quote, totally dominated him from the moment they met, talking about Matthew. Yeah. And she wasn't the only one who felt that way. According to Matthew's other sister, Sally, she said, Matthew actually calls Maritza mama, as if she's his mother. He does everything she tells him to, what to eat, what he wears. I believe he's frightened of her. Huh. Now... He calls her mama? He calls her mama, which...

I don't know if that's like a cultural thing because I know in some cultures like men do call women like mama. I have heard that. I've seen that happen. So it's like and it's not in reference to like you're my mom. In a motherly way. Yeah. No. Yeah. I know what you mean that like.

I wouldn't want a guy calling me mama. No. Probably because I'm just used to children calling me mama. You're like, Jesus Christ, if one more person calls me mama. So honestly, I'd be like, absolutely not, not adding another one. But I do wonder if maybe that was a cultural thing that they didn't understand because they hadn't previously been exposed to it. Yeah, because I've heard men call their significant others mama. Right. And not in a way that would be off-putting. You know what I mean? In a way that is like... Now all I can think of is...

Hey, little mama, let me whisper in your ear. That's what I'm thinking. So it's like, I've heard this happen. Yeah. And it's like, so I...

It's like it absolutely, this could be taken two different ways for sure. I can see their siblings being like, he referred to her because who knows? I don't know how he said it. I don't know what the inflection was. I don't know if it was, hey, little mama, let me whisper in your ear. Or if it was like, mama, and there was something happening here that we are unaware of. Or if it's just very innocuous and it's like, hey, little mama, let me whisper in your ear. We don't know. Either way.

Yeah, because then I think about it and also like in the gay community, like that's a bit like momma. Yeah, and also...

If it's the, here's the thing, like obviously this, something bad is going to happen here. I know this. 100%. I'm waiting for it all to drop. I don't know what's going to happen here. But so I know something's amiss. Yeah. And I'm assuming Matthew is at the heart of it. I don't know why. Correct. Maybe it's the animal cruelty, but I think that's why. So I don't want to be like defending anyone here too much, but I'm just, when it comes to like relationships, it's like,

Everything is so different. They're two consenting adults if they want to call each other something like... Go off. But obviously something is going to come out of this. I think that's perfectly said because Sally's looking back on this. In the context that she's looking back on it, she probably in...

The moment was like, huh, that's weird. Like I've never heard him call anybody that, but like whatever. But then she looks back on what exactly happens and she's like, well, that was weirder now that I look back on that. That's precisely exactly what I'm saying. It's like it's hindsight when something bad happens, you look back and see the strange things that are occurring. Right. But in the moment, you're kind of just like, oh, whatever. Like if they want to call each other something, whatever. Exactly. You know?

But anyways, regardless of how everybody felt about Maritza, she and Matthew did end up marrying in May of 1998 in a $25,000 wedding that they could not afford but took out a loan to pay for, and they spent years repaying that. That would be a little more than $47,000 today. So a pretty expensive one. Wow.

Now, a little less than two years later in March of 2000, Maritza gave birth to their first child. And with the addition of a new baby into the family, Matthew reasoned that they should find a new home.

And he tried to convince Margaret to sell the house because I think technically because like she bought it via the trust for him, she owns it. Oh, okay. And he just lives there. Yeah. That makes sense. The gist that I got. So he's trying to convince Margaret to sell this house and give him and Maritza the $140,000 profit that would be made from the sale. Okay. But she was hesitant to do so. And she was like, let me think on this. I don't want to make any hasty decisions here. Yeah.

So while things seemed to be going well for Matthew and Maritza as 2000 came to a close, they were dealt a difficult blow in the last few months of the year when Matthew started developing a pain in his hand that eventually was diagnosed as a repetitive strain injury and that effectively ended his career as a stylist. Oh, no. Yeah.

So unable to continue in his line of work, he closed the salon at the end of the year and submitted an insurance claim. The insurance payments definitely kept them afloat for a few months, but they weren't going to support them for the rest of forever. And things were getting pretty dodgy at this point. Oh, no. Both Matthew and Maritza being unemployed and living on meager insurance payments was a compelling case, though, for Margaret to release Matthew that $140,000 from the sale of the house.

Okay.

Okay. So in order to buy themselves some leeway while the business got off the ground, they paid the landlord a year's rent in advance and they bought about $25,000 in stock furniture and fixtures. So they're starting to spend like a lot of money on a new business, which of course it costs a lot of money to set up a business. Of course.

They're spending extra money that they don't necessarily have to in addition to that. Now, as the more knowledgeable one in clothing, Maritza, she spent her days running the store while Matthew remained at home taking care of the baby. And by early 2002, they actually were making enough to move into a small townhouse of their own. So to celebrate their new home and their son's second birthday, Matthew and Maritza invited Paul and Margaret to their home for dinner on the evening of April 4th, 2002.

Okay. Shockingly, that would be the last time anybody saw Margaret Wales King or Paul King alive. Oh. On the morning of April 4th, 2002, the last day that they were ever seen alive, Margaret and Paul woke up early, as usual. They spent the morning relaxing, having coffee. The housekeeper came over, as she usually did, and tidied up the house.

By 9 a.m., Margaret's bookkeeper had arrived and they spent two hours going over her portfolio until about noon. And then their friends Fred and Janet Roche arrived for a little lunchtime visit. The Roches had driven more than an hour from Melbourne and stayed most of the afternoon actually until about like 6.30. So they just had, they were having a good time together. Yeah. But around 6.30, Margaret excused herself and said they were going to get ready to have dinner at

I think she told Janet that she was having dinner at her daughter's house. Okay. Or Janet may have misheard. She might have said daughter-in-law. I was going to say maybe daughter-in-law. Right. But on the evening of Sunday, April 7th, Margaret's daughter, Emma, had started to get concerned that she hadn't heard from her mom in several days. This wasn't like Margaret to go several days without talking to Emma. Yeah.

And they actually had breakfast plans the next day, which would be Monday the 8th. And Margaret had a tendency to call her daughter a day before to remind her anytime they had plans, like, you know, we still on for tomorrow. So since they were traveling back from their vacation home, Emma and her husband stopped along the way so that she could call Margaret from a payphone.

But nobody picked up at Margaret and Paul's house. Later, when they got home, Emma got a call from her friend, Sandra, who said that she had actually been trying to reach Margaret for three days and she had been unsuccessful. Oh, no. So still unable to reach her mother, Emma decided, I'm going to drive over there and like check on them. Like, this is weird. Yeah.

So when she got to the house, she knocked on the door several times, but nobody answered. But she was able to let herself in. I think she had a key. And she looked around and confirmed that they were nowhere to be seen. They weren't home. But she looked around the house and nothing seemed out of place. Nothing seemed suspicious.

The only thing that was weird was that when she went into the master bedroom, she was surprised to find that the bed had been turned down, but it didn't look like anybody had slept in it. She was like, that's weird. But if you think about it, maybe they had turned down the bed thinking like, we'll get home a little late tonight and we can just get right into bed. Get right into bed. That was my thought. That makes sense. In the bathroom, Margaret's night cream, her toothbrush, her toiletries were all where they should be. So it didn't seem like they had gone away for the weekend either. Yeah. So Emma was like, this is weird, but like...

I don't know if I should call the police yet. Yeah. Because you don't want to believe that something's wrong. You know, so she went home. And the next day she was like, hey, she said to her husband, Damien, I think we should go over to the house again. Like something's just weird about this.

So her and Damien, her husband, she also has a brother named Damien, went to the house to search again. But it didn't appear that Margaret or Paul had returned since she was last there last night. And still nobody had heard anything from them. So initially just concerned, Emma was now very on nerve. She's like, this is beyond weird. Yeah, now it's getting weird. She's like, they seemingly just like disappeared into thin air. So she and Damien went to the Malvern police to report her parents missing, her mom and her stepdad.

After reporting her mom and her stepdad missing, Emma went back to the house and she and Damien put together a list of family, friends, and acquaintances who could have had any contact with Margaret or Paul. Yeah. And they started reaching out to these people one by one.

And it was at this time that Emma noticed a note on the calendar that they had plans with the Roaches the night that they went missing. So she called them immediately. And they explained how they had lunch with Margaret and Paul on the afternoon of the 4th, but they had parted ways around 630 because they were like, oh, your mom and Paul had dinner plans.

And they said, unfortunately, I don't think they said with who. Like they couldn't remember at that very moment. Yeah. So based on the report from the Roaches and the fact that none of their regular contacts had heard or seen Margaret and Paul, heard from or seen them, the Malvern police, they actually took the case very seriously, like right away. And they pursued it as a missing persons case. So the rest of the Whale siblings arrived at Margaret and Paul's house that evening and they waited while investigators searched.

After a cursory search of the home and interviews with most of the Wales children, detectives determined that nothing appeared to be missing from the house. So if Margaret or Paul had been taken from the home by force, it wasn't for any obvious financial reasons like ransom, which you might expect in a case like this. Because remember, these are very well-off people. For sure. So then...

While one of the detectives was interviewing Janet Roche, Emma heard Janet tell the detective that Margaret told her she was going to have to end their evening early because she said, quote, I'm expected at my daughter's home for dinner. Janet said that's what she said. Okay. Now, the comment seemed really strange to Emma because neither she or any of her sisters had plans with their mom for dinner. But then it occurred to her that she might have met Maritza. Yeah. So she called Matthew's house to say, like, hey, have you seen Paul or mom? Yeah.

Since leaving their parents' home as young adults, the Will siblings had maintained pretty minimal contact with Matthew. Like, they didn't really talk to him that much. Yeah. And nobody had even thought to call him when Margaret and Paul had gone missing. Damn. But now, on the phone with Matthew, that seemed to Emma like one of the first places they should have started. Yeah. Matthew confirmed that Margaret and Paul had been at their house on the evening of the 4th.

At which time Emma told Matthew he needed to come to Margaret's house right away and then just hung up on him. And she immediately was like, what? Like, this is weird. She's like, what the fuck? Later, in a statement to the police, Emma would describe Matthew's very strange behavior immediately when he arrived at the house. She said, he burst into the front room. His head looked like it was going to explode. And I could see the veins in his neck. He looked very emotional and asked, what's going on?

He then walked into a corner of the room and held his eyes with his fingers and let out a distraught cry and moan. He seemed overwhelmed by the whole situation, which I thought was an absolute overreaction. The police had not even had the chance to introduce themselves to Matthew. For all he knew, Mom and Paul could have been away for the weekend. Sally and I were not crying, we didn't look distraught, and we didn't alarm him in any way.

That's strange. So he has really, he should have no idea what he's walking into. Nobody's even told him anything. And he's having a massive reaction. And he's like losing it in the corner. Like they're dead. Like crying, wailing, like losing it. And they're like, we haven't even told you anything yet. Like, you don't even know who these two people are. Like these detectives. Like you could be walking in here and the police could be like, hey, like this has all been a misunderstanding. Your parents are away for the weekend and blah, blah, blah. Right.

Like you have no idea what they're about to say. Yeah, exactly. So to Emma and us, Matthew's reaction seemed fake and incredibly performative. But it only got stranger from there.

As the sisters questioned Matthew about the last time he saw their mother and Paul, he only gave super vague answers about the dinner they had. And each answer seemingly was interrupted by these like wild emotional outbursts and very theatrical displays of emotion. Yeah. He literally at one point had his head between his knees and was moaning and wailing and crying, where's my mama? What happened to my mama? Okay. And they were like...

This is just a lot. Like no one, which like you, it's, you know, people are going to react different ways to different things, but they're like. Yeah, I mean, we try not because that's like one of the things we're always saying is like we try not to judge somebody's reaction because it's like if I haven't been in that situation. I don't know. Who's to fucking say?

But they're like, we're all remaining calm and like it would be super awesome if you would remain calm so we can all figure this out together. Just to get the information together. You know what I mean? Like there does need to be some semblance of like we got to get control here because we need to know what's going on. Exactly. We need to share the information together and like figure it out.

Figure out the next step. Get our ducks in a row. Yes, figure out the next step. So I can understand why they were like, dude, you really got to keep it together. Like, we're all adults here. We got to keep this together. We got to try to figure out what's going on. And they're asking him for information and like answers to these questions. And when they ask him for specific information, all he would say is, and he like through tears, like crying out, he'd say, it's all a blank. I can't do this right now.

Like being very over the top. And it's like, no, you got to get it together so you can help. Exactly. You know, like you might be where she was like, and they're thinking like your house might have been the place they were going. Right. So like, yeah, we do need you to be a part of this whole thing. Exactly. So frustrated, Emma called Maritza in hopes that she could provide any more concrete answers. But when she asked what time Margaret and Paul had left the house, she's like, so they got to your house. And Maritza and Matthew were like, yeah, we had dinner.

So Emma's like, okay, what time did they leave? Maritza was super vague and told Emma she couldn't remember. And Emma's like, do you have like any kind of time frame? Like 9, 10, 11? Yeah, just anything. And Maritza's like, yeah, I don't know. And then before Emma could ask anything else, she said, Maritza said, is Maddie there? Tell him to come home. I have a headache. And then just hung up. Are you kidding me? Nope. So Emma was like, what the fuck? Okay, no. No.

So the detectives at the scene were really only slightly more successful in getting any kind of information from Matthew. He explained to them that, yep, he did have Margaret and Paul at the house for dinner. He's at around 945. He walked them to their car and he waved at them as they drove away like the sweet, sweet son he was. Oh, boy. However, when they pressed for more information, he started becoming irrationally emotional again and said, I can't handle this. And then just left and went home.

Like, dude, come on. It's like, you're not helping here at all. You're not helping? And why are you not helping? Yeah. Later that evening, after the Wales siblings, Sans, Matthew, had gathered at Prudence's house, they started discussing where their mother and Paul could be. And Damien Wales repeatedly called Matthew's house. Like, they're all sitting there trying to come up with anything. And they're like, should we ask Matthew? But they're calling Matthew and getting no reply. He's not even answering his phone at this point. That's weird behavior. And it's like...

We're calling you. We could have found mom and dad. Like, why are you not right by the phone? You have no idea. Mom and Paul, excuse me. Yeah.

And the more they talked, and particularly when Matthew's name came up, Damien started to get the feeling that his brother's dramatic performance at their mom's house might have been his clumsy attempt to hide something. He's like, he just had like an innate feeling. He's like, something's really off here. Something's off here. So he called Detective Constable Sheehan to report his suspicions about Matthew. And he was like, can you just send an officer over there? We're not able to get a hold of him. Can you just like check out what's going on? Yeah. And they were like, sure.

So when they reached Matthew and Maritza's house, the officers found the place completely dark, like all the lights off. After they rang the bell several times, they finally roused the couple and were allowed inside where they talked very briefly in the kitchen. They explained that Damien had asked the detectives to come check on him since Matthew just stopped answering his phone out of nowhere. And Matthew was like, oh, yeah, I took a sleeping pill and I just went to bed. So no one knows where your parents are.

You're acting devastated by this fact. And you took a sleeping pill? What if they find them? Exactly.

Like, to me, that's weird. I'd be sitting there staring at that phone. Same. He told the officers, I'm just a bit upset and concerned about my mother, you know? But despite what he was saying, the officers there felt a complete lack of sincerity. And they also found it curious that he kept bringing up Margaret, which obviously she's his mother, but he's not saying anything about Paul. And remember, he doesn't feel the same way about Paul that his siblings do. He grew up with Paul pretty much as his father. Yeah.

So the next day, April 9th, the family gathered again, this time with Matthew and Maritza in attendance. And Matthew's theatrical displays of emotion started pretty much right upon arrival. Immediately after sitting on the couch, he started crying and howling, asking, where's my mama? But if they questioned the sincerity of his performance the first time, the rest of the Will siblings certainly didn't believe him this time. No. Emma said, unfortunately, I could show him no affection because really, I smelled a rat.

Wow. I think she's the baddest bitch. I was just going to say she is a bad bitch. She's like, I've been on to this since the start. And I just love that she's like, unfortunately, I could share no affection with him. I'm like, that's bullshit. She's like, sorry, you couldn't do it. She's giving like shiv from Succession, isn't she? God, I miss Succession. I miss it so much. You can host the best backyard barbecue when you find a professional on Angie to make your backyard the best around.

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Now, like I said, the Wales children were not the only ones growing suspicious of Matthew. Investigators already were. And now, like, that they're all, they're seeing him too, like, sitting beside his siblings. And in comparison, they're like, something's off. Yeah, they're like, something's just amiss here. And they're starting now to think that he might have had something to do with Margaret and Paul's disappearance. Ugh.

Neither Margaret or Paul were in like super great physical health and they wouldn't have been able to travel at the time without all their medications and essential items, which were still at the house. Yeah.

Nothing of value had been taken from the house, and neither Margaret or Paul's bank accounts or credit cards had been accessed since the disappearance. Yeah. So a kidnapping seemed highly unlikely. Very much. And given both of those facts, the missing persons unit ended up handing the case over to the homicide squad on the assumption that the pair were very unlikely to be alive at this point, which that's heartbreaking. Yeah.

Now, based on the suspicions of the family and the officers who investigated the initial report, detectives started looking a little bit deeper into Matthew and Maritza almost immediately. And among the first things they learned was that their clothing boutique wasn't doing terribly, but it was hardly a financial success. And just a few months after opening, their expenses outweighed the profits by $52,000. Uh-oh. And this does seem like a money-motivated crime. Yeah.

In fact, things had actually become so dire that they started talking about selling the boutique and opening a cafe instead, thinking that would be a more stable business. And now detectives are hearing all of this turmoil regarding business. Yeah, this isn't looking good.

So on the morning of April 9th, Matthew arrived at the Malvern Police Department to be interviewed. And he brought these long handwritten notes of the conversation that he had with his mom and Paul on the night of their disappearance. He had these like weird transcripts that he wrote up. Okay. Like the other times that they tried to interview him, everything seemed very overprepared, super performative, and none of it was helpful. Okay.

Meanwhile, other detectives paid a visit to Maritza at the store, and they were surprised to find that, even though she had only been made notified of their intention to speak with her a few hours before that, she had already prepped a five-page statement detailing her dinner with the missing couple. A five-page statement. Wow. Like, what?

You can look at that one of two ways, obviously. I hate to be the devil's advocate here, but that's what we do. You could look at that as like, she's like, I have to cover my ass because I have nothing to do with this and I want to be prepared and have answers to everything. Or you could say, that is fucking suspicious as fuck. Why would you take the time to do that if you're innocent? You can 100% look at it both of those ways. You can. And it's like both ways work.

Makes sense. They do. You could argue both. It's true. Personally, I think it's fucking weird. Knowing. I know all the details. Knowing what you know for you to say it's weird. It's weird. Exactly. So according to Maritza in her five page statement, they had eaten dinner with Margaret and Paul. They drank one bottle of wine after which Paul and Margaret played with their grandson for a while, looked through some recent photos and then left around 945 p.m.

The statement also claimed that she and Matthew had always gotten along fine with the rest of the Wales family, but she did say, quote, Mom was a bit standoffish. She was a bit snobby. Matthew and I never had any real problems with the other sons or daughters.

She was like, Margaret was not the coolest. Interesting. I didn't have any. And she says, I didn't have any problems with the other sons or daughters, which like maybe she didn't realize that she did, but they didn't sound like they liked her very much. I was going to say, it doesn't sound like it was a big happy. But it could have been that they just like acted fake. Yeah, maybe. Because, you know, we all do that.

But the next day, April 10th, the Malvern detectives held their first press conference, flanked on both sides by several of the whale's children. Detective Inspector Brian Ricks, which I think is just such a cool name. That is a cool name. Brian Ricks. He told reporters, "...there seems to be no known reason as to why these people have disappeared the way they have. These are people you wouldn't class as at risk of going missing. They're retired people who have great family support. It is completely out of character."

And within a few hours of airing, police started receiving tips, including one from a man who lived a pretty short distance from Margaret and Paul. And he actually thought that he had found their missing Mercedes-Benz. The caller explained that he had been out walking his dog on the night of April 6th

And he noticed a silver Mercedes parked along the road around the corner from his house. And this stuck out to him because it looked, I mean, it's a Mercedes. It looks super expensive. Yeah. And it didn't have a parking sticker. So he knew the owner wasn't a local resident. And this was just like a very random place to park your car. Yeah. For a long time. And he said he probably would have forgotten all about it, but that the car was still there every time he went back out to walk his dog. Yeah.

So when he heard the description of the car on the news, he went back and checked the license plate. And sure enough, it was a match for Margaret's missing car. Imagine figuring that out. Like you've seen this car every day on your walk. And then you just go to check and you're like, oh, that's the car. That's haunting. There's actually a super haunting detail that we'll get to later on that like could be a case of...

like um the eyewitness not working out so well oh or like a strange paranormal aspect depending on how you look at it interesting but crime scene technicians searched the vehicle and swapped for dna and when they attempted to lift fingerprints from the steering wheel there was nothing to be lifted oh whoever drove the car and left it on the street had been wearing gloves and obviously wiped the steering wheel clean so that's not good no that's creepy as fuck the

The search of the car and the surrounding area also didn't turn up any additional evidence whatsoever. But during their canvas of the neighborhood, investigators spoke with a lot of additional residents who said they had seen the car parked on the street and actually were able to place it there as early as April 5th. Oh, wow. Which makes sense because they went missing the night of the 4th. Yeah.

Now, none of the Wales children could think of any reason why their mom's car would have been found in that neighborhood. As far as they knew, she didn't know anybody that lived there, nothing like that. And meanwhile, at Matthew and Maritza's house, Sergeant Stephen Waddell questioned Matthew about his relationship with Paul, and he wanted to ask some follow-up questions about the night that his parents went missing. So that one detective is doing that, while two other detectives are looking around the house.

In the garage, detectives who were searching the house noticed that there was a strong chemical smell coming from Matthew's car on the ground around it. And with Matthew's permission, technicians searched his car and performed a number of tests, but ultimately found nothing of interest other than that chemical smell, which was strange. That is strange. It's in a garage, so. Yeah, I mean, yeah. Who knows?

Weeks passed with really little progress in the case until finally on April 29th, detectives got a call from a ranger at the Yarra State Forest who had made a really terrible discovery. Ranger John Gwilt was working on track three. He was marking spots where a series of large boulders were going to be placed alongside of the path. And he discovered a mound of freshly turned dirt just a few yards off the path.

Initially, he thought it was a lyrebird nest and he didn't want to disturb the birds. So he just left it alone and kind of went about his day. But throughout the day, he just kept thinking about it and something about it just didn't seem right to him. Trust your gut. That's the thing. It was nagging at him all afternoon. So he was like...

I want to go back and take another look at that. People are amazing when you really think about it. Isn't it weird that you see a mound of dirt and you're like, oh, that's probably a bird's nest. Perfect explanation for it. But then something, and you can't explain what it is. What is it that tells us something is wrong? That's what's so fascinating. It's like, because a lot of us have dealt with that, where your gut is just telling you something.

Something else. It's interesting. And we've all felt that feeling and it's like, what the fuck is that feeling? Why do we have those kind of instincts? Like, it's weird. It's like...

I don't know. Like evolution or some shit. It's got to be. It's very interesting. It is. That's the thing. Trust your gut, everyone. Trust your gut, always. Old as fuck. He actually, I like really respect how he went about this because he trusted his gut and he was smart. He actually went with another ranger. He's like, I'm not going to look at this alone. Like I should bring someone else. Because if this happens to be something, I have a witness here. Right. We're not going to fuck something up. Exactly. Exactly.

So he took this other ranger and they went back to the spot to take a closer look and they used a rake and started pulling away the loose dirt until they uncovered, and this is really grisly and just like fucked up. Oh, geez. They found three large cinder blocks chained together, which appeared to be holding down a deflated child swimming pool.

What the fuck? Thinking they discovered a trash pile, they just kept digging and removing more debris. And they quickly hit what appeared to be a cloth bag held closed with another chain.

It was only when the rake ripped the cloth that a smell hit them both, and they both realized that they had discovered at least one body. Oh, my God. So, obviously, they called the police. Technicians come rushing to the scene, and they worked late into the evening to remove two bodies. And when they were finally unearthed, they were informally identified as Margaret Wills King and Paul King. Holy shit. So, they continued working throughout the evening and into the morning.

And Dr. Malcolm Dodd started his examination with Paul's body once he got him into the morgue. After removing the cloth sack from around his head, the doctor found that, quote, the neck and head were covered with bloodied green cloth gathered together in a knot under the right jaw. Holy shit. Margaret's body had been similarly wrapped with and tied up with ropes. And when they were removed, she also had a long strip of green cloth wrapped and tied around her neck.

both bodies were discovered in a really advanced state of decomp which obviously made it very difficult for them to find any obvious signs of trauma because they're trying to figure out like where they strangled where they hit it's hard to tell their

Their stomach contents had undergone minimal digestion, meaning they were both killed very soon after eating dinner at Matthew and Maritza's house. Oh, shit. Despite the advanced decomposition, Dr. Dodd was eventually able to identify the cause of death for Paul as blunt force trauma to the head with also signs of strangulation and Margaret as as asphyxiation.

But she did note that there was bruising on Margaret's body, which led him to believe that she had also been rendered unconscious before she was strangled. Okay. Hit somehow. Holy shit. Later, blood tests would show that both Paul and Margaret had consumed normal levels of alcohol, paracetamol, I think it is. It's acetaminophen in the U.S. Oh, okay. So it's like Tylenol. And codeine prior to dying. So pretty like normal stuff. Yeah, you said they weren't in the best of –

Of health, exactly. So I'm sure they were taking that kind of stuff. Yep.

So later that morning, Sergeant Waddell notified the family of the discovery, which must have been absolutely horrifying. And a formal identification was made, which was confirmed then by a forensic odontologist. Excuse me. Detectives spent nearly an hour with the family. And during that time, Matthew was there and Waddell pulled him aside and handed him a search warrant for his home and asked if he would accompany them back to the house immediately so that they could conduct their search. Holy shit.

At the house, they found, among other things, a large post hole shovel, a set of D shackles like those found on the cement blocks, a ball of green twine that matched the bindings on the bodies, and a set of

An inflatable child's raft that appeared to match the small deflated pool discovered on the bodies. That is so... Isn't that chilling? Something about that just turns my... This whole thing is horrifying, but like that just turns my stomach. That's his two-year-old child's pool. Little pool. That he used. And those are his grandparents underneath it. Who? Like that's fucked. Yeah, that just...

And in Matthew and Maritza's bedroom, detectives also discovered that the quilt and sheets on the bed were similar in color and fabric to that which the bodies were wrapped in before they were buried. So they're like, we have everything right here. Yeah, they're like, oh no, for you. Yeah. The announcement of the discovery of Margaret and Paul's body set off a media frenzy as reporters clamored to get more information on the story.

In his statement to the press, Detective Sergeant Charlie Bozzina said of the area in which the bodies were found, given the popularity of the area, you would think that if a person is aware of the area, they would have made a lot more effort to get further into the bush or certainly get away from the track. Yeah. Because they were found like right off of a track in a forest. And it was not lost on anybody that the investigators seemed particularly interested in Margaret's son and Paul's stepson, Matthew, and his wife, Maritza.

And they knew that they had been searching the home on multiple occasions since the discovery was made. So the media knows what's going on here. Of course. Publicly, the murders of Margaret and Paul, which the press dubbed the society murders, like I said in the beginning, were touted as a total mystery. But unaware that the couple had been murdered the night they went missing, several people actually came forward saying that they saw them at various points in the days after their disappearance, which would have been impossible.

That's always fascinating. This, for some reason, and like we say it all the time, like eyewitness testimony is so unreliable and can be so flawed. But for some reason, reading this, I was like, I don't know if people are lying. Like it just feels a little paranormal to me. A man who lived in the area where the car was found told reporters he saw Margaret return to the car several times in the week that it was parked in the neighborhood.

He was like, I saw her there multiple times. And also, like, why would he say, you know what I mean? Like, that just seemed, I mean, people do weird shit. They do. So it's not, like, out of the realm of possibility that people are just making shit up. Right. But these, some of these, like, that's a weird one to make up. Right. And it's, like, it's not like you saw her one time and you're like, no, I swear I saw her once. Multiple times. And he told the Daily Telegraph, she was well-groomed and neat. She locked the car and looked up at me. It wasn't a passing glance. It was a searching stare.

In hindsight, it was a bit weird. See, that feels like a real... Like, I get chills saying it. Like, he feels like he saw that. And it's like, he's saying, like, she locked eyes with me. And I might sound crazy, but to me, that sounds like Margaret is like, pay attention to this. Pay attention to this car. You know what I mean? Pay attention to what's happening. Like, something has happened to me, and, like, I'm going to have a hand in having it be solved. I mean... Crazier things have happened. Hey, for all my paranormal...

friends here yeah I know you're sitting here feeling us I just feel that way there is something I do too like because that is strange that's strange the fact that and again who knows this person could be lying just for like telling what he thinks is a fun story but he the fact that he said it wasn't a passing glance it was a searching stare that's very interesting right and

But that's just the little blip that I was talking about. Regardless of the mystery, suspicion among the locals and the press was starting now frequently to fall on Matthew and Maritza. According to author Hilary Bonney, who I've mentioned a few times, she actually wrote the book The Society Murders. It's a really good book. I definitely recommend it. She said, as soon as it became clear that the bodies were those of Margaret and Paul and that Matthew's house had been searched by the police, reporters and photographers set up camp outside Matthew's house. So this was like a huge case in Australia. Yeah. Yeah.

And if they couldn't find any peace at home, things were twice as bad whenever Matthew and his wife went out. People stared, pointed, hurled questions at them. They were followed. Like, this was not good for them. But the case against Matthew, however speculative or circumstantial, was really surprisingly strong. He and his wife, like we know, had been the last two people to see his parents alive. And their bodies were discovered along with evidence connecting them back to his house. Yeah.

Then you put that up with his disingenuous and very theatrical reactions to the news of the deaths. That also aroused suspicions among even the people who knew him best. Yeah. And all of the children in the Wales family. Which is strange. Right. And of all those children...

he was the one who actually would have benefited most and most immediately from the deaths. That's very true. And as they dug, excuse me, and the more they dug, the more suspicious both Matthew and Maritza looked. Their stories were too similar, too rehearsed, too convenient.

So on May 7th, the funeral was held for Paul and Margaret, where Matthew repeated his performance of the hysterical grieving son. And there was even more animosity between the Wills children at this point, because at this point, literally like they're being buried and Matthew is refusing to submit a DNA sample to investigators.

Come on. When Emma pressed her brother for a reason why he would not do everything he could to find the killer, he said, I'm protecting my family and then burst into tears. So they were like, what the fuck does that mean? Yeah. It's like, this is your family, man. We're your family. Like, why aren't you helping us? Mom is your family. Paul is like your family. Hello? Damn.

As Matthew and Maritza attempted to go about their lives after this, the press continued, like I said, following them everywhere, unable to ignore the fact that both of them seemed to be the focus of the investigation. But while they tried to remain united, things between Matthew and Maritza were very much beginning to break apart. His behavior had become super erratic and unpredictable, and Maritza started to worry that she was putting herself at considerable risk by continuing to stand by Matthew. And they have a child. And they have a child.

So on May 7th, she herself was brought in for more questioning, and the gravity of the situation really started sinking in on this day. And this has been a month now, like a little over a month that they've been dealing with this and going through this. So a few days later, on the advice of her counsel, Maritza called Inspector Brian Ricks to set up a meeting with him. Oh boy. When they all sat down together at the station, Ricks went out of his way. He was like, oh, it's super cool that you're in here, but...

I'm doing you a favor. I'm doing both of you guys a favor. He said, we don't need any help. He's like, I got him. I know who the killer is, but whatever. Tell us what you need to tell us. Enlighten me. Yep. So not wanting to blow their chance at immunity, though, Maritza immediately launched into her version of events.

The couple had been at their home for dinner. Margaret and Paul had come over for dinner, she said. And at the end of the night, something happened. She said Matthew hit his mother and stepfather over the back of the head a few times, then stacked their bodies up against the front fence in the dirt. He left them there a day and buried them.

Oh my God. So it's like, we invited them over for dinner. They ate dinner together that night. Don't forget, they all sat together and ate dinner, presumably. They hadn't digested their food. And then at some point, he just went up and hit them over the back of the head. Well, that's the thing that's even more concerning. Out of nowhere? She's just like, and at some point, he just wailed them over the head. It's like, what happened, though? And it's like...

Also, where was your child during this? Did your child see this happen? You so hope, like, asleep. You so hope. And remember, they're over there celebrating the fact that their grandson just turned two and that this is a new townhouse for Maritza and Matthew. Like, they're celebrating this family. This is fucked up. It's fucked. But...

She signed that statement summarizing everything she had seen that night. And how was she staying quiet? I don't know. She said she was scared. I mean, yeah, I'm sure she was. Yikes. But that was all investigators needed to get a warrant for Matthew's arrest. So on the morning of May 11th, a team of detectives and patrol officers arrived at the home and served the arrest warrant.

Given his behavior and history of instability, there was actually considerable concern that he might try to hurt himself or somebody else. But when they explained the situation and asked whether or not he understood what he was under arrest for, he just said yes and went willingly, which really nobody expected. Yeah.

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Shop cool styles, patterns, and colors on Packet.com. Use coupon code PACKET20 for 20% off. That's P-A-C-K-I-T and the number 20 for 20% off your purchase. Make Packet the first stop on your back-to-school journey. Back at the precinct in Melbourne, Matthew almost seemed relieved that the entire charade had finally come to an end. Wow. Which is...

Just really upsetting. So strange. It didn't take very long before he started to explain what happened on the night of the murders. He said, and he told detectives, once Maritza went upstairs, so you hope that with the baby. That was to put the child to bed. Yeah, you hope that. He said, once Maritza went upstairs, mom and I went outside with Paul and I hit them with a block of wood on the back of the neck.

He even went so far as to draw diagrams for the investigators indicating where they'd been standing in the driveway when this happened and where the bloodstains had been before he cleaned everything up. From there, things really happened more or less as Marita explained it. He choked Paul and his mother with those strips of fabric that had been found around their necks. And then he lifted their bodies by the fence in order to hide them until the morning.

What the fuck?

And purchased the red and white sash cord that had been found wrapped around the bodies, as well as the D shackles and concrete blocks found on top of their bodies when they were unearthed. Wow, you... The chain that he has left. That's the thing. Like, that is just...

Leaving breadcrumbs everywhere. Later that day, he said after Maritza returned home to take care of their son, because remember, he's the primary caretaker for their son. She goes and runs the store. So there are just two dead bodies who happen to be this child's grandparents sitting outside.

While this man is taking care of his son. Like, really think about that. Wow. I don't really want to. No, don't. But like, really take that into consideration to see how much of a man, how much of a monster this man is. But later that day when Maritza got home to take over care of their son, Matthew wrapped his parents' bodies in that old quilt cover and then loaded them into the trailer and drove out to the Arranges.

He said his original plan. This is so cold-blooded. This is his mom. This is so cold-blooded. And his stepdad, who he had grown up with since he was seven. Which is like, I know you sit there and you're like, obviously there was a lot of stuff going on.

you know, in this family and everything like that. And we were saying like, oh, that was kind of shitty that they got together after they were best friends. No one fucking deserves that. Like, geez. Well, and guess what? There was four other children that went through the same shit. That's the thing. It's like, so that's not an excuse. Not an excuse at all. At all. Oh, that's awful. He said his original plan had been to drop their bodies into water and weigh them down. That's what the cinder blocks were for. But he worried that they might float to the surface, which I was like,

How would they with cinder blocks? They like broke free of it, I guess. But he said for that reason that he was worried, he decided to bury them in the forest instead. After listening to Matthew's story, he's like, okay, like the sergeant is like, I know that this is how this all happened, but...

But why? Why did this happen? Because he's like, we went outside after eating dinner and I hit them both with a thing of wood. And it's like, what led to that? That escalated so quickly. You are skipping parts of this story. Like, you didn't, did you just walk outside and you immediately hit them both with wood? That's kind of what it sounds like. Or did, there was no argument? There was no nothing? No.

Without hesitation, he replied, because there's so much animosity and hurt between my mother and myself, and then just trailed off. Wow. It took some time, and he backtracked a lot. He got confused, but eventually...

He explained the motive more in depth. He said he had very conflicting feelings when it came to his mom. He said he loved her and relied on her for oh so many things. Yeah. But he also resented the way he felt that she used her wealth to dominate and manipulate others, specifically her children.

He blamed her for alienating him from the rest of his family. And the resentment and anger, he said, was just building in him for years. So you know what? Remove yourself from her. Go to therapy. Remove yourself from her life if you don't like her and you don't like how she operates and you think that she's...

holding shit over your head and stuff, remove yourself. Yeah, but then you wouldn't have access to any of her money. Exactly. So it's like, that doesn't check out, my friend. Exactly. But he said things came to a head a few weeks before the murders when they got into an argument over her decision to sell a vacation property that was hers in Queensland that was connected to the will that she had set up several years earlier. According to that will, the siblings would receive an equal share of her estate, which is her...

her estate that she owns and she's leaving to them if anything happens but it would go into a trust and

And they all, according to Matthew, felt like this was her way of continuing to control their lives and treat them as children. Jesus. Even once she was gone. I swear, the move is to never tell your kids that you don't have a will. Yeah, honestly. And that whatever you have left... Don't tell your kids anything about your will. ...is just going into the wind. Yeah. Just be like, you get nothing. I'm just going to be like, we don't have anything. So it's not worth it because you're not getting anything. No. Just be like, I don't have the will. Nope. I don't have one. I don't have one. Sorry. So good luck. Like just...

You hear about this shit and you're like people killing their parents over wills. It's crazy. Over what they get when they die. It is like mind boggling. It's scary. It really is scary. It's like, holy shit. You just hope that you, you know, your child's not a sociopath, I guess. It's like, what kind of roll of the dice is that? Seriously, it's, it's fun to- People are wild. But he said the fact that he just kept thinking about the sale of that property and the fact that

it was going into a trust and like, why does it matter that it's going into a trust? I don't get, I don't get it. But I'm glad I don't get it. He felt like that was her control over the situation and he was so tired of her, in his own words, controlling these situations. And it was like at that point that he was like, you know what? I want to kill her. Like he started thinking about killing her at that point. That's wild. Because it's like, that's not your money. No, it's not. That's not yours.

yours. No. That's theirs. That's her estate. She can do like with whatever the fuck she wants with it. That's the thing and it's like. She bought it. She earned it. Yeah you can't get mad man. That's her money. Yeah. What you think she should be doing with it is pretty irrelevant. Exactly. You're her kid. It's not yours. That's the way it is. It's wild. And it's like you are making your own money. Like that's what's so rough is like you wonder how

What? Because it's like, obviously, he is a very disturbed human being. From the start. Something probably would have happened, I think. I think as well. If it wasn't his parents, who knows what it would have been if he can do that. What the fuck was that? Nothing else in this room shook. What was that? It was something over here.

I told you there was a paranormal aspect to this case. I wonder if you can hear that in the recording because that was fucking terrifying. If you can hear that in the recording, keep this in because that was fucking terrifying. That was weird. I don't know what would have done that. There's a shelf behind me. Everybody on the wall. I don't know if you could have heard that. If not, we'll cut this. There's a shelf behind me on the wall. It's just full of candles, but they're not lit. They're not lit.

Just candles and such mainly. And as I was talking, it almost sounded like a woodpecker. Something, it was like behind me and then it just stopped and nothing else in this room did that. The garage door didn't open. Like nothing shook in this room. Like, you know, like. Neither of us are even like, we're not even moving. I'm not moving. I'm sitting on a couch. No, no. We both heard that. Or it sounded like almost like somebody dropping a coin or something. Yeah. Like something like that. Yeah. Yeah.

That was bizarre. Sorry, that just like threw me totally off. No, that was bizarre. Kilty. But all that to say, this was her money. She could do whatever she wanted. Yeah, and I think I was saying, now I remember. I was like, sorry, my brain just lost. Obviously, something likely bad would have happened. Oh, yes. With Matthew as the...

the culprit there. I think so. He had a lot, there was a lot of signs. That's something. And if you're capable of doing that, you're capable of doing a lot of things. Agreed. But you do wonder if he didn't have that hand thing and he was able to continue working. I wondered that. And owning that salon, if it would have changed the past. Because I always wonder if like something like that can lead someone away from those thoughts or, you know,

instincts that they have. Like finding a passion. When they have something that they're doing. Pouring their energy into. Pouring all their energy into. I do wonder that. I have no basis for any of that. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know what research there is on that. I'd love to look it up. That would be interesting. I thought the same thing, though. But you do wonder that if he didn't have to close that down and didn't have to shift. Yeah. Because he was bringing in considerable money, too. Yeah, like he was kind of supporting himself more, at least. And...

He probably felt a little more fulfilled because he was running a business and, you know, he was doing it well by all accounts. So it's like he had clients that relied on him and that were loyal to him. You do wonder.

Like, you wonder, you know, and I know it's rough to look back like that because you can't go back and shift it. You can't change it. But you just wonder, like, would that have been a different thing? Outcome. You and I were talking about this yesterday. Like, it really is crazy how one choice or one circumstance in your life can change the entire course of your life. Like, it's crazy.

If you don't go somewhere someday, you don't meet somebody and you don't end up here. Yeah. You know, like something as simple like we were talking about, like breaking up with a boyfriend. Yes. That's like no good. You know, that like you're just like, yeah, he's shitty. And if you had stayed with that person or like a girlfriend and you'd stay with that person, it could alter the total course of your life. Right.

Like totally different life you could have. Exactly. You know, it's one decision that you make. People could have not entered your life. Opportunities, you know, like who you are as a person, like little tiny choices. Right. And the universe is always trying to tell you. I totally believe that. But I do wonder, I'm like, I want, it's really sad because I wonder if Margaret and Paul would still be here. I know. It's sad. It's really sad to think about. I really feel for those, that family.

I do too, because they probably sit there and ask themselves that question and a myriad of other questions. It seems like they've just gone through a lot. Yes. They've gone through too much as a family for it all to end that way. Agreed. Absolutely. And that's the thing for it all to end that way. Yeah.

So, Waddell listened patiently, Sergeant Waddell, and then asked if Matthew's plan had been just to kill his mother, because he just said, that's when I started thinking about killing my mom. He said, why not do it when Paul wasn't around? Like, why did you also feel the need to kill Paul? And Matthew replied, I quite like Paul, but at the same time, he destroyed my mother and father's relationship, too.

Ooh, which is just so, that's a black and white answer, but it's so gray because he's starting it off with, I actually like that guy, but I killed him, but I killed him violently, but I actually do quite like him.

Like, that's really fucked up. And a trigger warning for sexual abuse. Later, Matthew would elaborate on his reason for killing Paul. He claimed that Paul had sexually abused him as a child. And a short time before the murders, he said he felt very strongly that Paul had actually been abusing his son too, Matthew's son. Unfortunately, I don't have enough information to say whether or not that's true. But that is what Matthew was saying. That's what he said. That's the only thing I know.

Wow. So if that is the case, that is entirely fucked up. But at the same time, it is not a reason for murdering someone. And it's also Paul isn't here to defend that in any way, shape or form. Or to prove himself innocent or, you know, so I don't want to go into that too much. But he did say that. That's something he said that he alleges. Right. You know. Wow. Yeah.

So investigators continued to build their case against Matthew in the weeks and months that followed, collecting evidence to corroborate his admission. They confirmed that Margaret Wales King had indeed changed her will, just like he said, to have greater control over the inheritance left to her children by her father.

And while most of the children objected to her decision, that was true, they all were financially independent adults and saw no reason for this little matter in the grand scheme of things to ruin their relationship with her. So they all were seemingly ticked off by it but weren't going to let it blow over into this big thing. But Matthew, on the other hand, like we were saying, still relied very heavily on Paul and Margaret for financial and emotional help.

So he believed that they turned to him during the sale of that Queensland property that kind of changed everything because this decision of changing the will actually had to be approved by one of the children. And they went to him for approval and he,

Matthew felt like his mom assumed he would be too stupid to realize what he was signing. Oh, okay. So that's where all this animosity and anger led up. Both during and after his confession, though, Matthew did insist that Maritza had nothing to do with the murders and actually had been asleep in bed when they happened.

So he said that she only learned about it the following day. And he told the police she cried, she shook, she dry-wretched, she retreated to her bed and hid under the covers. Oh, wow. So he makes it sound like she was scared of him at this point and was horrified. And I'm glad...

if that's the case, that he was honest about that and didn't try to throw her under the bus as well, if she had nothing to do with it, you know? Agreed. And the days and weeks after the murder, excuse me, Matthew kept telling his wife that he was going to turn himself into the police, but he wanted to make sure that she and their son were protected. So I'm not claiming to understand why Maritza didn't go to the police, but you can see, I guess, that she, one, was afraid, and two,

thought that her husband was going to turn himself in at some point. Yeah. I mean, again, I can't claim I've ever been in that situation. So I'm not going to sit here and be like, well, she definitely should have done this. Exactly. It just would have been super awesome if she could have told this ahead of time. But again, holy shit, what a position to be in. Exactly. And he sounded like he was scary. Yeah. So...

And she has a child to think about. And she has a baby. Right. Yeah. So her account, Maritza's account of things more or less confirmed that while she stood by her husband and remained silent, she did want to go to the police from the moment she had learned what Matthew had done. She told police, I was brought up so good. I can't believe this shit is happening to me. I just want to die. I'm so tired. It's like a nightmare. Oh. So you just... That rocks your soul a little bit. To hear like, you know, because it sounds like she was brought up in a really nice family. Yeah. Like...

They got out of so much shit themselves. And then look what she finds herself wrapped up in. And she finds herself wrapped up in this, and you can tell for her to be like, I just want to die. Like, this is awful. Like, this is horrible. She's a mother. She's, you know, damn. That's really sad. So on October 17, 2002, Matthew Wills appeared before a judge in Melbourne Magistrates Court where he pleaded guilty to two counts of first-degree murder. At the same time, Maritza pleaded guilty to one count of perverting the course of justice and was able to postpone it.

Several months later, Matthew appeared before the Supreme Court in Melbourne, where he was sentenced to 30 years in prison with a minimum of 24 years being served before becoming eligible for parole. Wow. For the perversion of justice charge, Marica was actually given a two year suspended sentence.

as the judge did not believe that she played any role in the murders. The judge, who was John Coldry, said, I want to make it clear that there's no evidence linking Maritza Wales to these murders. Well, that's good. Now, initially, Matthew was sent to the Lawton Prison, which is a low-security prison in Victoria, where he arrived with a trailer that was hauling a special posturpedic mattress for an injured back that he had.

At first, he struggled to adapt to prison life and continued very volatile behavior. And that eventually got him transferred to HM Prison Barwon, which is a maximum security in Victoria, maximum security prison in Victoria. Oh, damn. Since arriving there, he is said to have demonstrated a better ability to control his anger. And prison officials report that he's a model prisoner there.

In recent years, it's said that he has dedicated his time to self-improvement. He's enrolled in educational classes, taken a job in the prison barbershop, and has never been a problem for anyone at this maximum security facility. I wonder if they just like don't deal with your shit. Like they're like, we're not taking your shit here. I was just going to say at this maximum security facility. He is eligible for parole in 2026. Oh. And so far, he's given officials no reason to deny him. Okay. Yeah.

Now, in 2007, Maritza Wills actually appeared in the press again when she was arrested and charged with grand theft after stealing an $8,000 ring from the locker rooms at the Q swimming pool and then pawning it for $400.

When she was brought before the judge at the Melbourne Magistrates Court, she pleaded guilty to one count of theft and one count of obtaining property by deception. Her lawyer told the judge she saw it, she made a split-second decision, and that split-second decision was wrong and has had serious consequences for her. Damn. She was sentenced to six weeks in jail, suspended for 12 months, and was ordered to repay $400 to the pawn shop, and the pawn shop was ordered to return the ring to the rightful owner. Wow.

And that altogether is the case of the society murders. It is so traumatic. That is so traumatic. And it is absolutely wild to me that he could be up for parole after murdering his parents.

And in like cold blood. Like murdering two people that are the closest people, like some of the closest people to you. And seemingly out of nowhere. Like just over a financial dispute. Over like animosity because of a will. And it's like he acted so poorly at one prison. Yeah.

a low security prison that they were like, we can't have this going on. But now he's acting well at a maximum security and they're like, well, look at that. And it's like, okay, that's not really a good indication of how he's going to be in the world. Right, exactly. We got to be thinking here. Like, obviously we talk about like rehabilitation all the time. Yeah, for sure. And you hope that it's possible. One would hope.

But, oh boy. I was just saying, I guess we'll find out. I guess so. Yeah, so in the meantime, we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But that's so weird that you murder your parents over their will because guess what? None of that money is yours anyway. Yeah, it's not yours, man. Bye. Bye. Sorry, I just burped. How dare you.

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Welcome to another round of Drawing Board or Miro Board. Today, we talk brainstorms with UX designer Brian. Let's go. First question. You thought you'd see everyone's idea in the team brainstorm, but you've got a grand total of one. Drawing Board or Miro Board? Drawing Board. In Miro, the team can add ideas now or later. And with Privacy Mode, we can keep them anonymous until they're good to share. Correct.

next you need the best way to explain your idea but all you have is a few sticky notes drawing board or miro board drawing board and miro i could record videos at text images links and digital sticky notes of course right again now you're looking for a past idea you thought was just genius only you could find oh there it is drawing board or miro all our finished and unfinished work lives in one place and

And he's wild. For a limited time, visit miro.com slash brainstorm now and get a free business plan trial to unlock even more brainstorming tools like private mode and voting. That's miro.com slash brainstorm now.