Episode 510: Alvin and Judith Ann Neelley Part 2
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Hey, weirdos, I mila math, and this is morbid.

But yes, super more bad because um .

it's part two, right yeah it's part two of alvin .

and judy nearly to fucking yeah.

Are you doing after part one? Yeah you okay. I know it's just like this one.

There's not a large you know body count here, but my goodness, the one the victims are just first to have them be a children and the way they do IT is just like enough. I really bothered me. Did they go .

after another teenager flash child in this one?

No, no, but it's it's another Young woman, so it's bad. I mean, it's all around. Yeah, I really is. So when we last left you um police had found lsa militant body thirteen year old lisa milan yeah who was lured away from a mall when he was on and outing with a group from a home for neglected and abandoned girls such so terrible and he was held for a manner I think I believe was four days, right, because they were going to use are repeatedly sexually abused SHE was, I mean, he was held there who knows what else happened, right? And he was eventually in reacted with basically clean dish washing products, cleaning products by judy nearly and six times and then thrown into a canyon after being in shot the chest.

Do they know? Where are they able to determine when he had been injecting her with the cleaning products?

They believe IT was when he was tired of the tree outside, but he didn't die right away. So SHE was shot the chest and thrown over the kenyon, my god, yeah, it's horrific. It's like unBeatable.

So that's where we left you, which is a pretty horrible note to leave you on. Investigators really did do their due diligence in this. They were trying their hardest. They were going after every lead when we talk to in part one.

All the departments are working together right now, which is great, and it's going to help them stop this quicker, but unfortunately not quick enough for someone else to die. okay. So on the afternoon of october third, dian bobo was on her way to work at a hard's restaurant in rome.

Um unfortunately SHE an at a gas near the thorn wood school and and IT was like this whole ordeal. SHE went through where I was like SHE an at a gas and then he tried to push the car then SHE like ended up stalling in the middle of like this intersection. SHE had to push the truck off the road just just a bad more.

And he called her husband from a payphone. And then SHE SAT on the carbon, just waited for him to come. SHE was like, no, I gave at my all these things, not starting, so I need out.

So while she's waiting, she's by herself. She's just waiting on the curve. And dian was approached by a Young woman. SHE is never seen before, uh, SHE later.

So as dian was later able to describe this, so dian is going to be kay um he later described this Young woman as wearing clothes, quote that looked too big for her and appeared as if she'd been wearing them for several days. So basically judy always looks fellow when he walks up to people, which I think is by design as well as just by nature. Is he trying to look like destitute? I think she's trying to look desperate for help.

Yeah, she's trying because SHE looks Younger. SHE is Younger. Yeah, so she's trying to walk up looking like somebody that's in real trouble and need to help somebody will basically praying on the goodness of others yeah and the girl said to her, do I know you? Aren't you partial x ander? And that iran was like, I am not Patricia nor my Alexander.

I am neither of those things. And he was like, I was just hoping that you would just go away like I didn't want I had a shit start to my day like, I don't know mood, i'm not petition l example, please go away for but this girl kept t looking at her and he kept talking to her. And dian was like, can you please fuck and go away like i'm just waiting for IT like I don't want to deal with them yeah and he told dian that he had been out riding around and SHE was kind of lonely.

So SHE thought maybe dyan wanted to go for a drive with her. why? And dian was like, unknown planet.

What I wanted do that, and by no situation, what I want to do that. But SHE said also, he just seemed off something about her. SHE said her vives were horrific. While somebody who's asking you like.

you know, i'm just born, I wanted to go for a drive with someone, run the fuck .

in other way, that the vibes very dirty. And then he looked over at the girl's car and he saw a child in the car because, remember, judy has children.

Oh, fuck, I literally forgot that I was like.

why to see a child, you and SHE said, but this girl was telling me SHE was alone and she's lonely and he was lonely. But there was a kid in the car and he was very and dian was like, listen, no, i'm good and he was like, I know my car just broke down. I got to go to work.

I'm not driving around with you and my husband is coming so, yes and so duty was like a no. I can give you a ride to work like when she's get my car, give you right to work. And dian was like, listen, I just called my husband.

He's on his way. And the girl got even more persistent, was like, get my car. He should get my car.

And dian was like, no. And SHE finally got super firm with her and was like, no bitch, like, leave my presence. I don't want to deal with this.

And finally the girl walked away, went back to her car and SHE drove off. And then SHE drove off, right as diane husband pulled up on a motorcycle. The timing.

So later that evening, john hancock and his twenty two year old girlfriend, janus chapman, we're walking home after visiting genius's mother. They're walking on the side of the road when a Brown car pulls up next to them. No, thank you. The Young woman driving the car told the couple SHE was new in town. SHE didn't know anyone, and SHE wondered if they wanted to drive around with .

her for a while. I just sorry. That immediately makes .

me think of john milli, right? I'm new in town. John initially was like, no, thank you.

Good bye, and told the driver that they didn't actually need a ride. Its fine. Like we're good because he was like looks like you need a ride.

Like i'd bring you where you need to go like we can just we'll be friends no but he looked at his girlfriend and janice wanted to go like IT was clear. So the thing is, janie had struggled to make friends. SHE had a lot of social issues in general.

So john thought that this was like gonna. He was like, I just didn't want to discourage if he was actually looking to, like, connect with another human being. Yeah, he was just trying not to like, you are .

bubbles.

So they got in the car. Oh, no. Now, almost immediately after getting in the car, they notice of something was off. Something was off about the car.

Something was off about the driver, the whole situation, and so the driver told had told john and janice again that he was new in town and didn't know anybody. But after they pull away, he starts talking to a man over C. B. radio.

Oh, and even like that alone is just so creepy.

You get a car with a stranger and then they start talking to someone over C, B radio .

that's like, so again, we save this all the time, but something that would happen in a movie yeah.

too much yeah and it's like, this happen. What do you do? You already the that's not like and something about C, B radio men ever since joy ride yeah joy ride has really an obviously joy red had not come out yet so but they hadn't been driving for a long when they crossed over into I think it's uga cani tugg yeah okay.

And the girl pulled over to the side of the road beside a very large, very, very densely forest in area. No, no. And before he could even because he's like, what the fuck is going on before he can even ask why the hello, we stopping and pulling over next to A A forest yeah.

The girl turns to john and points egana, oh no. SHE demands that he get out of the car. And by then another car had pulled up and a large man got out.

Oh my god, I think we know who these two are. And john was so confused, had no idea what to do. He doesn't know if this girl is going to shoot genie, shoot him, shoot both of them, shoot herself.

He doesn't know what the hell happening. He's like, he looked serious. Like this was not a bluff, right? And so he did, as he was told that he gotten in the other car, he he was like, I didn't know what else to do. I didn't want to put anybody in danger.

Who knows what you would do in that situation?

So both cars drive around the area together for .

so john is now in in the albans car .

and now sheet genesis is and ducks. They're driving around for hours, hours until arriving at an isolated area, john was told to get out of the car he was in. Once he was out of the car, the girl got out of the other car and force john into the woods a little ways.

Then, without warning, he shot him in the back, oh, my god, and just left him for dead and walk back to the car and drove off with genus inside, oh my god, just walked him into the woods, shot him in the back and left him and thought he had died. Yes, but clearly the way you're telling a story he did not know and I was not IT wasn't very light in the woods like there was no natural light coming in and he was already getting back. And so judy couldn't really see where he had shot.

John, okay. SHE just assume that whatever SHE had done there, IT would be enough to at least prevent him for making IT out of the woods, and eventually he would just die because he wouldn't be able to find his way out of the woods and suck. But the bullet had actually gone through his right shoulder.

Oh my god, i've had lodged in his scapula. Oh, which is a very painful injury, but it's not disabling. okay. Well, that's great.

So i'm not that great, but I but I like it's great that he was able to like exactly for a minute played and then get up exactly because not long after the car pulled away, he was able to make his way out the woods and he flagged down a truck driver who picked him up and drove him to fluid county medical center and emergency room attendance. We're able to get the bullet out of a scapula. And he was discharged around four thirty A M. Just an hour and a half after arriving at the hospital, and he talked to a sharp step, he immediately.

the way this man just got shot, yeah. Finds his way out of the woods, hit hikes to the hospital, gets a bullet removed from his shoulder and after, like what? An hour? An hour?

Okay, you can leave now we'll believe in you. And he's like, cool.

I'll go to the sharp office. This man lived a whole last life in a matter .

of a few hours.

a whole lifetime. Oh, my. And and he's sitting there are wondering what the .

fuck is going on. Isn't nowhere genesis wife or girlfriend, his girlfriend? Glory end. And so later that morning, a sharp deputy in an agent from the georgia bureau's investigation, the gb. I, they visited john at home to take a statement, and at first they were skeptical about what they heard, and he was shot. you.

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on apple podcasts. The reason being that john had a very flat affect to a very like monotone way of talking because he he's just gone fucking in through IT. Thank you.

Today we would look at that and go well. He and he he like, like. And also today, I think we look at IT a lot more.

We've said this in a few other cases as everyone react differently to situations and some people aren't going to react the way that you want them to. And that doesn't mean that they're not feeling the feeling. That just means that they're not portraying .

the feeling how you want them to, i'm sure. Like his his lack of emotion combined with his like non life threatening his injury .

way of kings hard but he just never want like a curd anyone at first like maybe he just talks like this Normally two investigators that seemed like he was very casual about having been shot in his girlfriend and having been abducted um and there were other parts of the story that stuck them as a little strange at first like the couple had gotten into the car really easily 嗯 and like they were like， you didn't try to overpower the driver at any time, any point like you know what a gun they were asking questions which they should ask, of course.

Obviously, because we have seen also cases where someone pretends that they are a victim and they are actually part of the whole thing. So it's like I totally get why they were they were doubling down and what they had to say like you can look at IT both ways, but regard in again, regardless of what they were suspecting here about john IT did appear as though janice h. Chapman had been abducted.

So that had really happened. So the case was opened, an investigation began. Okay, good. And I was this, which I like that they weren't, and allow them being slightly suspicious of story to stop them from immediate looking for genes. So IT was not lost either on the press or the investigators that Jenny had been taken just a few days after lesa militant's body was found in the canyon. So detectives were like, IT feels like this is, more than coincidentally, like these are two Young women.

There's another Young woman involved in the abduction story like IT feels that isn't happen all the time and when room police played the recordings of the calls tonight on for john, the ones that they had gotten from, uh, the bombing, the shooting, all of the previous, he confirmed that the voice of the color was very similar to that of the woman who abducted janice. So rome police kept in, mike raglan told reporters, there are a couple of similar artists, but for every similarity there's a discrepancy. So he's just like keeping his you know, he's keeping on the ball here, which I think is good total now because we're always also like hammers ing on anybody who goes in with like a preconceived narrative or just jump s on a narrative and won't look any other way.

So I think it's it's safe to say they were going about in the right way now in the days that followed, the search for janise, chatman grew exponentially in size and scope. I mean, things are starting to puzzle together now and by then, dian bobo, our girl who had, who heard had broken down and who judy tried to abduct but you just said he was like, don't talk to me i'm having about day SHE had reported her weird interaction um and he and he said, you know this sounds very similar to the conversation john hancocks to police about and he he and I had a very similar interaction with a very similar looking girl so it's like this doesn't just happen and the language was further confirmed a day later when a rome woman called police to report that her thirteen year old daughter had been approached by yeah Young woman who tried to lure her into a car. Oh, no.

So they were trying to go on like a spring. absolutely. And the girl's description of the driver and the car matched the same one given by day.

And bobo and john hank, no. So we're really go in here now. yeah. And there are other similarities too, like the thirty color you like, let's go.

Like there was at the thirty eight, a bullet that was called from john hancock shoulder was a match for the ones in least a militant case. I didn't even think of that possibility. So they were able to now put these together and now they're looking at john to and being like ry.

So IT didn't take long before the voice on the nine one one recordings, about least a militant was recognized as being very similar to the voice of the person who placed the calls to can dui and lynda dare several weeks before all this. And he was confirmed by duly and a dare in police interviews that all this is the same voice and two investigators. IT was pretty clear that there was at least two people that were terrorizing the room community now, and now they're kidnapping and trying to murder Young women.

In some cases, succeeded like this has escalated quite quickly. But the thing was, it's like they all seemed similar and they had similarities, ties. But the random mous.

fuck they. That's the thing, like the calling and threats to bomb somebody y's, how is are actually going through ruling the bombs is something .

coste shooting into someone else, a man and a woman, and then killing, abducting and killing a thirteen year old girl, right? Attempting to do a two other women of varying ages, but like Younger, I guess, and then abducting a twenty two year old girl in shooting her adult boyfriend.

It's all it's all very just like, really, really it's like you can't figure out that in the worst part about this was like they have all these connective similarities like they can pull this thread through all of them and go, yeah, we know this is the same person, but we cannot predict to what they are going to do next. So who is no predicting and that's like terrifying absolutely. So although they had, like we just had very little evidence to go on, detectives did believe that their suspects, or at least you know, the Young women, were probably from out of state OK. They also believe that there was a real connection to the rome youth development center. Yes, definitely, because they were like, we can't figure totally out.

But this got to be something so they decided which was smart to come through the records there looking for anyone who matched the composite sketches that they were able to put together from the various witnesses who had had this woman approach them um and they decided to cross reference that those ones with anyone on that list who was out of state OK and after tons of detailed research and work, like real work, they're be able to track down everyone on the list and verify their alibi except for one nearly so as rome police detective Kenneth can read through duties file, he began since, you know, some circumstantial and anecdotal things that, at least in his mind, linked nearly to the crimes committed around room. He was like, you know what? I could see this. okay. SHE had first been arrested for committing a robbery at the same location list milan disappeared from.

Oh, I didn't even put you into together on that.

The couple was arrested near the area where leases body was discovered for that liberty, and he appeared to be committing crimes with a man. And so a few days later, on october twelve, john pick duties photo out of a photo lineup and said he was definitely the woman who shot him in later that day, dian bobo, in the thirteen year old girl who judy had attempted to abduct room, also identified judice photo from a line up as being the woman who tried to lure .

them into her car. This is my favorite part of the whole when and .

all just starts coming together.

It's like the what we say in the reward of the third act on time because it's just come in school, begin you and just gets all the events together.

So based on the identifications, arrest warrants were issued for the arrest of duty. Nearly, let's go. And as look would have IT investigators didn't have to look too hard for their because three days later, earlier on october ninth, judy was arrested in morpher's sparrow, tennessee, for passing bad checks.

and so he had already been arrested and unable .

to make bond SHE SAT in the the rathers third county jail in a cell where he was repeatedly visited by a man who seemed very anxious every time he came to speak with her. Imagine so others for county spokesperson lucio butner told reporters the officers here got suspicious because the man had been in so many times.

In a few days later, ten see authorities arrested alvin nearly for not the murders yet or the objections, but as him being an accomplished to her larson's scheme that he was doing. So they're able to get him on that smart. On the morning of october two thousand nine hundred eighty two, detective SAT down to try to pull all the pieces together.

But the problem was they still didn't know where janus was. I was just about to ask, where is just? And at this point, it's not looking good.

No, because now one of them is in jail.

And the vision where genus, right? So after all of this, when they SAT down with alvin, they realized, uh, he was a little sniping coward. Because, remember, alvin is a failure.

Yeah, in all, I just that one can be a failure. He was a fucking and warm, and khan said he was just a complete WIP, not too bright, more or less a slob. He just didn't fit the picture at all.

And right then I thought, there must be something real strange in all of this. And he was even more surprised when alvin told he wanted to talk about the crimes. But then he said, I didn't do no murder.

I ain't never killed nobody. And I was like, what I think about what you just said. I think you said you killed people yeah because I don't know if those double negatives is all that up to a positive, but if you ain't never, then you did.

Then you did because that means you didn't never so you did so you did exactly. So sounds to me like you just admitted to murder my friend. correct? Uh, so alban's lawyer, William burton, came to the police station, and they all SAT down for a formal interview with Albert nearly.

And according to alvin, he had been with his twins member, his children. That's so upon the night of october third and he got a call on the C. B.

From his wife, judy told him him she's picked up two people and he could and SHE refer at least people as john in kay. Kk, is genesis middle name or okay? And he said he wanted him to meet them.

Ha, now once he drove out to meet them, they all got in by. When he brought his children, okay, once they, i'll got out of their cars and exchanged introductions. John got an eleven's car.

And k, got back in gitten. He was a free tourist. K, yeah. Into duties car with the kids. And they all drove around .

for a little while waight, sorry. So the kids are with who at .

this point are now the duty .

and is okay, jean, poor genus.

like what the fuck is going on and their driving around looking for, he said, very pleased. Buy alcohol. Uhh, and after they've been driving around for a while, john needed to pee. So alleva pulled over and let the man out totally.

also driving around for over an hour, trying to find somewhere to buy liquor. Yeah, we live in america. Yeah, fucking everywhere. exactly.

But once john had peed, he said, he started brought, walking down the roadway away from the cars. So seeing john walking away, judy got out of her car and started to walk after him. So alleva said he wanted to check on the children.

Of course.

of course, we want to make sure that everybody knows that get and so yeah, went to go check on the children in the other car, which is when he noticed that janice was hand cut to the sea. Oh, just happened to notice that in the car with the children, by the way and he said, quote, SHE was just sitting there in the dark. He was real quiet SHE didn't seem worry about, worried about nothing um I debt, I doubt that highly um after he loaded the kids back into his car.

these poor kids just getting shuttle around and just abducting people and I they're probably todgers up this.

I don't even know at this point how old they were the yeah I think they were Young yeah so alvin yell dr. John and judy telling them to hurry up. But only judy came back, he said, but not happen.

There's no plan there, you know, didn't you? From there, they just went back to the motel room where judy told alvin SHE had shot john. Oh yeah.

Once they were back at the motel room, juty began. Now, judy began mocking janice and making fun of the way you spoke. H, I read, but he said janice didn't seem really bothered by IT.

I think SHE was probably just trying to stay for fied .

in and stay life. The next morning, alam claim ed, that judie genus left the motel to drive around for a while, eventually meeting up with alvin at a local dairy queen. And alvin said to investigators, quote, SHE was out of control.

I was afraid you might shoot me this time. She's a dangerous person talking about duty. And he said, SHE firebombed that house in rome.

Oh, and he said that Julian genus left the dairy queen together. And when judie came back alone, SHE told him he had shot the girl and left her body along a role. He then w, he then drew up a map for investigators, and he signed IT.

Oh, wow. yeah. Now they later learned the story was at least partially true. yeah.

But somewhat the next day, october fifteenth, genus chapman's body was d alongside her royal and haywood valley SHE had one bullet wounds in her back and two in her chest. That's so sad, room police chief joe cavin told reporters. We don't really have a motive. There was no robbery involved wow so they just killed her to kill .

her for no reason whatsoever and .

I love that alvin just wasted no fucking in time pinning all the murders on his wife and every single one he is the most snivelling little warm i've ever seen like she's a piece of absolute fucking garbage ah the two just show me a picture like, oh, I know they're just so fucking and foul either are they're posing in front of a confederate flag here yeah exactly and disgust a but he called William burton and asked if he could also represent judy.

So he's throwing duty under the bus. 我 then， after the layers. Now, unfortunately, judy had been asked for an attorney. So when berton arrived at the station, investigators refused to let him see her until he asked, yeah. And so in the meantime, judy was crafting a defense pretty similar to her husband's, which is SHE was claiming of his alvin, who had killed ably militant in genus chapman. So now they're just serving on each other.

Of course. I my thoughts mediately .

IT says again to the world. And then they got arrested ted. And they like, fuck that pers .

and they did their them. Girl.

I love ers, I am scrolling .

through pictures right .

now and I am just, yes, flag IT just make sense. IT is now. According to judy, SHE had never been in trouble with the law until he met album, and SHE had only engaged in criminal activity because of all.

like we've seen in a rap sheet more.

And what said that is that judie had a beginning to life that was rough, like that he would seem to be triumph in the building. And it's like SHE did really give in to her dark side that had was clearly always there had to have been. The detectives showed her picture of lisa militant, who judy acknowledge just having met at the river bmo a few weeks earlier.

But he said, I noticed her because he looked like john's cutting him who is a character from happy days. If you look at least american, she's adorable. SHE does remind SHE is like a happy days character.

She's just beautiful. Now, ultimately, judy made two statements to investigators in alabama. In georgia, ah SHE acknowledged participating in the attacks on the Y. D, C, the youth you know ah the Y D C employees and the kidnapping and murder of lisa ican and genus chapman so he acknowledged participating okay, but he claimed he had only participated the crimes because he was, quote, under the control of her husband who had physically and sexually abused her.

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Okay, now here's the thing. He is a piece of fucking and shit. absolutely. He is a monster. He has a noted improving history of being physically and sexually abusive to the women.

the girls I was getting, Young girls.

he's. So that can all be true. absolutely. That doesn't take your doesn't .

mean your involvement away.

Yes, you did IT and also doesn't take IT away like so .

your life is just terrible all around .

all of IT is and it's like I don't there's there's so much mess here yeah you know that like all of these things can be true at once.

That's that's .

exactly duty is a duty of fucking monster. SHE SHE had monstrosity inside of her and she's a predator. She's a predator and it's like, so SHE SHE has that inside of her absolutely.

And elephant is a smoking monster and doesn't even hide his monroy. It's just right out in the but he beats the shit out of people he to boast to love. He threatens to kill his own children like he's a piece of absolute fucking garbage that sounds like so ish.

Neither of them knew how to love. No, they are. So it's so it's very real to believe that all of this is true at once, that he had this inside of her and that he deserves to be punished for IT and that he also within control of her and physically and sexually assault to her to game.

I believe IT, I believe all of IT you. So according to judy, alvin had demanded that he find girls and Young women for him to sexually assault, and that SHE only agreed to help because, quote, SHE was willing to do anything to avoid further abuse. Okay.

I believe that .

up to a point, exactly. It's like, no, you enjoying IT, you did that. You literally inserted cleaning products and somebody y's don t bad about who you are that and like, you clearly let IT out this whole thing.

That's why this case is so fucked up and is just like IT is hard to see any of the good. There are any kind of positive anywhere here. Layers and layers are fucked up.

Yeah, sad, horrible rage, this abuse, trauma lows you with sadness. The more investigators spoke to both of them elvin duty, the more convinced they became that, like what we are saying, neither one of them was telling the full truth. no.

And that's how we are kind of saying. And here, all of these things can be true, and they cannot be true at all. So just a days after alvin was trying to completely blame duty for all the murder, he'd come up with a new explanation.

He said there were seven other victims, and according to alvin, he and judy were, quote, recruiters and enforcers. And this is a quote in a prostitution ring, but not all of the stings were connected to prostitution and that was a quote, by the way. okay. So now he's trying to say that he's working for this ring and he's an enforcer in a recruit along with duty and that this all has to do about ahh, now based on his statements to police, alvin did seem to have some details about the murders of Young women that had happened around the state that they hadn't connected to them.

Okay, but IT wasn't super clear whether that was because he was not involved in them or he couldn't just read about in the he was in the things he had warned, things he couldn't have gotten, okay, he said, or the georgia beer of investigations director pilot told the press. All I can tell you is we're checking IT out there's a lot of misinformation floating around about IT, but we have agents talking to them and we're just trying to evaluate find out exactly what we have to do to separate the facts from the fiction. This must have been really hard.

I they seem and imagine they seem like too fuck in liars and it's like they're lying about each other and for each other. So it's like this is just it's a mess yeah now, well, alvin is spinning crazy stories at this point about like these criminal rings and other conspiracies. He's going off the deep band yeah judy remained mostly quiet in her jail style.

SHE cells SHE gonna stuck to her story that SHE was just a victim of alvin. Okay, and that was that he wasn't going away from me. Well, I was probably best case in area.

IT truly was now to most investigators and among people in the media, dud's explanation was, me know, as good as any other. They saw who alvin was. So IT wasn't completely out of the look at the time of possibility.

They got together when cheese, how old. He has done this previously. They are seeing of everything we've talked about.

But detective kinds, who was the one who had spoken to both of them and had spent a lot of time talking to duty, he said, I don't know about that. Okay, after hearing what judy had to say about everything, kinds said, quote, she's mad because he had to a little time. It's revenge against the system.

So he's saying he had the serve time in the rome youth set detention center there, which is what those first attacks were after. He's saying he was pissed that he had to do that. Maybe something happened there. SHE snapped.

Who knows? None of us know nobody y's claiming something did or didn't happen. She's claiming something happen. We have no proof either way you something could have happened there but either way, she's pissed about her time there yeah and he's saying this is totally against the system and so investigators really started to hold this theory more, and they were starting to look more into IT.

They started speaking more and more with duty, trying to get a little more out of her and in an interview with alabama district torney, Richard um I think it's ego. I believe IT is a Carry. Richard judy explained that he liked lisa and didn't want to hurt her.

And in fact, he claimed SHE only killed lisa because he didn't want to get caught and go back to y dc. And what about the cleaning products? Thank you.

And here's the thing that they believe, they believe that he was first, he was revenge against the people who worked there. SHE was going to get that whole story that, you know, the fire bomb, the shooting, and then they had this whole list they were going to go through. They were going to fuck up everybody who worked there that wrong term.

I think that was real. And I don't know what the reason for IT was, whether IT was based off of abuse or not, but I certainly could have been yeah and what they think now is that SHE started going after, like people that were similar to her in that position, like Young girls. SHE started like they started together going after fuck terrible IT doesn't make any that's that like, let's abuse but nothing about this is rational in any way yeah may may have even been like subconscious that he was doing that yeah you know, they don't know.

They just think this is her being pissed about something that happened here or that SHE didn't SHE was fishy added you time at all OK, I I mean, I can see that that make sense now on october twenty eight, that did called county grand jury was convened to hear the case against duty for the murder lesson ican. They deliberated less than one day before returning an indictment. And in the three count indictment, SHE was accused of not only killing lisa, but also of kidnapping and sexual abuse of a minor.

If SHE was prosecuted to the force extend and found guilty, SHE was going to face the debt penalty in alabama. wow. Um even so, her cora pointed lawyer bob french was convinced that sheet only participated in anything out of fear and he was, quote, dedicated to a not guilty verdict. And I say good luck yeah also like of course you are that your job now the problem facing alvin and judy's lawyers was that neither of them denied kidnapping and killing.

Listen, janus, they both how they were both there around alvin was also an idiot so when he would try to create a stories and lies to save themselves, he always ended up actually creating traps for himself to just go lup into um I mean that good yeah so this is a trigger warning. And for the next part because i'm just going to say something about the least american thing and it's pretty horrific, its sexual abuse related. So I just want to let you guys know that that's coming.

It's just for a second so you can skip forward really quick if you want to okay. Um for example, during an interview with G, B. I agents, alvin repeatedly denied raping ly simili an, but when agents looked at him and said, will have the fuck then did you have Simon found inside of her if you did not raper and alvin said he, he just kept denying, but then he turned IT into an outrageous lie. According to alvin, he said in this terrific, he said lisa was hand cut to the bed in the motel room when judy mastermaid him into a dixi cup and then ported into lisa, that was his explanation. I actually .

don't know what to say about .

that instead of just like you're caught, you're caught, you got caught there's no IT is black and White IT is you are caught red handed and you come up with the most wild and just got fall in complex explanation for something that is a black or White like there's no that's another level stupid this fucking warm was h that's so heinous and again, that was his way of still saying, well, judy was part of that huh .

and is like.

just admit that you're a fucking pig, that you're predatory fucking pig and you've done this your whole dam life that sort of like you disgusting pig. The fact .

that his brain would even make .

that up is so in incomprehension. Investigators, first of all, must have been sitting there hard five, but also sitting there and just being like, are you fucking in kidding? Like.

how dumb do you we think we are?

Who do you think you are talking to? And again, with each new lie, he just got himself more and more tangled in his own fucking and guilt. yeah.

And every time, he would more or less just admit his guilt again, exactly. And over the course of the investigation, his story changed repeatedly. First, he was all duties idea because he was crazy and dangerous.

Then he claim they forces in this ring. And then that whole thing fell apart. So we started blaming judy again and telling detective SHE was by sexual and IT was her idea to kidnap and rape the girls. Okay, so now we're saying, like this is her idea and he wanted she's by so that's why it's like alvin literally let IT go gets so fucked like it's you're so dumb just admit IT, I hate when people like when they're backed into a corner like that and they just keep going. Can some like liars like that when you are literally holding something in front of them and being like, look and they're like, no, that's so .

matting like.

so inverted like that was like my x boyfriend when I held up like proof his cheating like a literal, physical piece of proof and he was like, now misprints and it's like, are you like he told me a movie, there's misprinted a ticket, a movie theatre misprinted a ticket yeah like those kind of people, would you hold a piece of evidence that is in dispute? Bread of them, and they will lie their way out of.

I have shown someone a text that they sent from their phone, yeah, and they SAT there and told me that they didn't send IT yeah, when I had proof .

that they people who lie like that are scary. They just will lie. It's just like they never are. They will never come out with the truth. And that is alvin.

The scary thing is you start to wonder if they do believe that with .

the just fucked in like conviction with the and the for which they deny yeah the truth, how they'll defend them. It's really scary. It's it's intense like really .

scary when faced with that, it's unlike anything you could possibly ever explain.

I listened to my x if he's listening right now, you honestly not you like. I enjoy story time because he definitely remember this. Ah listen to him in the bathroom taught, have a full conversation with another girl, full conversation making plans, listen to the whole heard her voice. Could have the entire .

thing had him like, like talking back.

H, yeah, having a full conversation and then he came out and I said, the fuck, I just listened to that entire thing. I know you're talking to a girl and he said I was listening to a voice, mel.

that's unbelievable and then you feel crazy oh .

yeah because I was like, oh, obviously i'm crazy.

That's the .

other thing .

that the wild tales, your big that .

party yeah you like, oh, i'm the case. I like i'm being very like i'm losing IT. I'm being wild for even like I need to check myself before that in that alvin.

I think that's also why he surrounds himself with Younger people he likes to control and he obviously likes to have that manipulation tactic under his belt. That's what he uses. And so he's sitting here trying to pull IT on seasoned fucking and investigators like the georgia of investigations.

And he sitting there that would like you you want to pull IT on like a nineteen, nine year old girl who thinks they're in love with you. Yes, it's proud. Ly gonna ks, like, ooops, I know this, but you try to pull in on some people who have been through some shit.

No, no, it's going to work. I've been like the worst of the worst, of course. So it's just for him to pull out the duties by sexual. And it's her idea I can so she's buy so that sushi wants to kidnap and rape girl. That's the other thing.

So I know what you're trying to say here.

sir, because this was what this was the seventy, yes, like in the early eight, late seventies, terrible thing of bisexuality. They just want to get abduct and rape Young women. Course like no, I think you have actually proven that you do that.

So good track kind of you know, but you're both growth. So in this case, bob french, her corner pointed lawyer. Yes, there's having a similar problem because in one interview after another, judy confessed to participating in the assaults on the Y.

D. C. Workers and the kidnapping and murder of lessons. Is so again similar issue because like David mitted IT, so what's the case in faced with two capital murder cases, he filed a motion in early december to have judy tried as a juvenile. He acknowledged that his was pretty unlikely to be approved like because of what like how bad IT was yeah the he said we would be remiss in our duties if we hadn't asked for the full offender status, such since is a juvenile. But I seriously doubt that will be granted, considering the magnet de of the crime.

the fact that she's still a fuck in juvenile, and this is her relative. And how many fucking kids to SHE have?

Just you just have the two. I mean, at the thing SHE has three, I think three yeah W I think at leads to wow. yeah.

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So french's motion for youthful offender status was deny denied.

He was denied and on march seventh, one thousand nine hundred eighty three, her trial for the murder of least military began to called county and after two days of jury selection openings, arguments began with, uh, Richard, I think it's I ego, I believe okay arguing on behalf of the state now, Richard told the jury of lisa militants hearing four day or deal where he endured torture, multiple rapes, and then was injected with costa chemical and then shot and thrown off a Cliff by judi. Wow, like IT doesn't get more harness. No, absolutely not.

Judy did this not because they were claiming judie did this not because he was under the rest or because he was being violently abused, controlled by her husband. He did IT because he wanted to. Ah and personally, that's what I believe I believe SHE was being violently abused by her husband and I believe he wanted to do this yeah I believe both those things are true and liked detective kinds he contended that after a brief incarceration for the robbery at the mall where he was in that juvenile detention center, SHE had developed an anger and disdain for society in humanity.

And he wanted a seeker revenge, which he took out on girls SHE perceived to be like her. Yeah, that's wild. yeah. Now in her defense, bub french told the jury, you know, a different, a different side of this story in his version of events study was, quote, beaten in brain washed into procuring thirteen year old lisa and american as a quote and quote sex partner, which I was like, huan rate victim, yeah, for her husband.

And then SHE just followed his instructions and killing the girl and pushing her body into little river canyon, which is wild to me that like, you like, oh, I did IT like, she's not even blaming IT on now. Like, she's not even being like alvin killer. He's like, she's like, I know I killer, right and they're having to be like, yeah, he just did IT because he told her to and it's like, I think according to french quote, every move, every action, every thought for Carrying out this heinous event was planned, calculated and instigated by alban neel, who had been violently controlling her action since the day they met and began a relationship when he was only fifteen years old. Again, I think it's all true and I think he wanted to do IT.

It's wild to me that all of this happened in the span of like .

A A couple of years yeah now in support of his defensive of what was then known as battered woman syndrome, let's referred to um he offered testimony from judy's clinical psychiatric examinations that had concluded that duty could probably fits the battered women syndrome to the most severe extent that the psychiatrist had scene wow.

This is why I do believe all of these things can be true um the psychiatrist also noted that alban's mental state was substitute for judy's own resulting in a situation where judy quote had no intense of her own so french told the jury duty was reduced a robot by this man who saw himself as an extension of clyde barrel and his woman as bony Parker. Oh, who knows? I don't know all.

I knows they're both terrible. That's the thing. That's the thing. Again, they think I know to see them. I think it's all true at the same time.

And I think SHE didn't, you know, do that kind of thing. You don't inject someone with cleaning fluid six times and then shoot them in the chest unless you want to do that. So the district torney acknowledged that duty absolutely may have been influenced her husband, you know what? Maybe SHE wouldn't have acted violently without his urging.

Maybe SHE won't held at all in, but SHE was still responsible for her actions that he did do the hypothetical, maybe SHE wouldn't have, doesn't really have bearing on anything when lisa and janice are lying dead in the ground. So they said her plea was not guilty by reason of insanity. And even if IT had been, such a plea does not include abNormal behavior manifested by repeated criminal or anti social acts.

And what has happened here is criminal, anti social and of the highest degree. So after two weeks of very graphic testimony, a lot of evidence, the jury deliberated for less than four hours, in return a verdict of guilty helium. The circuit court jury recommended ascendance of life in prison without the possibility. Parole, I think, is very fair french, her lawyer said judy is in pretty bad, bad shape and he referred her as a backing case.

Again, a quote, yes, under alabama obama, obama actually has the right to accept or reject the jury's recommendation for a sentence into, although they recommended life without parole, he had the total authority to say yes or note that wo and when duty returned for sentencing on on April eighteenth, one thousand nine hundred eighty three, to called county circuit court judge handle coal, actually chose not to accept IT huh and he sentence study to death he said, by any standards acceptable to a civilize society, this crime was heinous, atrocious and cruel agreed and asked by the judge if he had anything to say on her own behalf, judy said, I didn't have any feelings. I had no thoughts or feelings except to do what I was told. There's nothing I can do to change the past.

I can keep things from happening again. I can help battered wives, and that's what I want to do. Now I don't know if I was really love or fight from being so scared of him or dependency. One of my biggest pet peeves in murder trials is when the person says, I can't change the past.

We know because you know what everybody fucking and knows who, particularly your victims families know that take your breath and they are living with that thought every day that we can change the past so we don't need to hear from you. I can't change. We know that fucker.

We know you can even do basic algebra and we're not worried about you changing the fucking path that's redundant. Thank you, judy. What we're worried about is you a caged fuck and animal, being let out in the society and doing this, Oliver.

in the thing that passes me off beyond that is when they sit there and say their plans for the future, when they took what I want to do, two people's plans for the future. Yes, and that is great that you wanted do that. Did you happen to ask either of those two girls what they plan to do with their future?

Precisely you it's like she's sitting there being like your children's lives are going to be gone so that I can become this wonderful face of, know this cause and you know, they they died from me to change lives and I think that, wow, like, okay, that was a family members sitting in that court room. I don't know how people do IT. I don't know how they do IT.

I have so much respect for the people, I don't think I could do IT. And absolutely, I don't think I have the will power. I think like anybody who is able to sit there and control themselves, I think like you deserve a standing ovation. One hundred years. You're a, you're a higher vibrating human at myself self now.

Hoping to avoid another trial and another potential death penalty for her case in georgia for kidnapping and murdering, janis judy agreed to plead guilty to the charge of kidnapping and agreed to testify against alvin in exchange for the state of georgia agreeing not to pursue murder charges or the death penalty. Wow, now again, he was already sentenced to die in alabama. So authorities in georgia were like, I think it's fine if we agreed to this place like SHE sentenced to die and she's gonna stifle against, and which is basically just a win for them, exact not really win for her there.

precisely. So having been edited in march for the murder of genus chapman, alvin was endiama second time on may ten thousand nine hundred eighty three for the murder of lisp ican. good.

Now seeing how judy's trial had ended in the fact that he was definitely going to testify against him in the chapman case, I have been agreed to plead guilty in georgia to charges of kidnapping with bodily harm and murder. In an exchange the state was agreeing to not pursue the death penalty. interesting.

So I think this is good. He was sent ted to life in prison, okay, which I think is great. I agree.

Take IT. And even in serving his sentence, said bostick state prison and hardwork, georgia. So like by alvin, see a fucking never.

I don't think it's very that he got death and he did and they .

did the same crimes. Well, you'll feel Better. So after he was sentence, he became the Youngest woman ever sentenced to death in the united states .

because I just looked figure out her age. I think he was born in one thousand hundred and sixty five so SHE was either .

I think he was seventeen and choose oh and trial seventeen years old he was sending to the death penalty for murder that's wild and SHE was sent to Julia to wild prison for women to A A weight execution row.

Now immediately, though, obviously judies lawyers filed an appeal on her behalf, and they argued that her maranda rights had been violated following her because law enforcement officers failed to inform her that an attorney had been called to the jail by her husband because, remember, alvin just had his own. Well, alvin, so the whole thing was. As a result, her lawyers argued that the statement SHE made during those early interviews were inadmissible and he deserved a new trial.

The justice is disagreed because they said judy had repeatedly stated that he didn't need or want a lawyer, right? So and SHE had continued speaking freely with investigators, so SHE had said out loud, I don't need and I don't want a lawyer OK. So that negates all that exactly.

And in their decision, they upheld the lower court's conviction in the justices route, even if mrs. Nearly confessions were inadmissible because of a violation of her fifth or six amendment right to council, any error in the admission of those confessions were cured by her own testimony at trial, right? So they were like, even if that had happened, SHE testified a trial and said he did IT right. So like we don't need those earlier confessions actually, because he just said IT in the court clean this day. So after more than a decade on death row, ww duty sentence was commuted to life in prison by governor fob James, who cited the jury's original sentencing recommendation as the reason .

to me so ten years on death row twenty seven and gets life and yeah, that is my age right now yeah I can imagine.

Like, yeah.

but she's a fucking monster.

Yeah and so they did this because they said that original jury had wanted life in prison without problem, right? So they are allowed to go back and commute that sentence back to that which like. I don't know, I don't know.

He was like a little. I gotto look further into that. Like I I want to spell out an opinion without being fully. I just my initial thought is like.

but I think in this case is a cause. It's like what the fuck? Yes, but I guess that could be beneficial in other cases if maybe the judge handed IT out like a unfair sentence.

Yeah, I think i'm also moving my opinion on the death penalty so much that I I think i'm also just like if I honestly life without parole and like that works for me yeah .

and I guess in my opinion it's like, what's the point of having the jury if the judge .

can just do IT over the fuck they want? Yeah, that's true, you know. But then like, what's the point of the judge if the Jerry gets the final say, yeah you know I can if he is convoluted yeah that really is but either way, following this whole thing, the alabama legislature passed legislation in two thousand and three to prevent judy becoming eligible for parole, but then changes in the law in two thousand and eighteen undid that legislation I was making eligible as of twenty three. yeah.

In may twenty twenty three, the state parole board deliberated for less than an hour and denied her barrel. I saw that as of today, he is still in Julia tought wild prison for women. SHE is serving out a life sentence, but he will be eligible consideration for parle again in twenty and twenty eight. wow.

And she's only I think she's fifty eight right now, fifty eight or fifty nine. Yeah so so he could very well still be alive then.

That thing is that I from what I looked up, I think even if he got parole, SHE would have to go serve in georgia. Oh, because I think sh'd like I think you will still have to serve a life sentence. Jura, so I don't think I will even .

matter interest.

Ll, i'll look IT up again and i'll make sure that updated on the next episode. okay. But i'm fairly certain that I guess I me what I read, you will have to continue serving another sentence in another place, even though secretive kind of thing because .

they gave her the plea of taking death penalty of the table, but they gave her life yeah so.

yeah so I think you'll get parole and then immediately have to go to georgia and start serving a life. So so like why why are all it's kind of a waste of everybody's time. Alvin, nearly case you were wondering, you were like he didn't get death.

He did he he got death in the end um he served roughly twenty years of his life sentence and state prison and then he died in october twenty first on october twenty first, two thousand and five from complications following surgery. Um yeah bye. So IT is quite a story and they are quite a pair.

Yeah they both belong to be locked away and have the the key thrown away yeah they sure I don't think there's any hope for somebody that can inject another person with dro and in dish.

So a child, I don't think a child, I just simply don't think, yeah, I don't see you can be pass that but no, yeah, we wow, what a horrific case. Yeah, I would really .

love something very Normal for the next episode but I personally am working on like a old timing one wo so sorry to some i'm .

sorry to some that but yeah to others yeah exactly. And then I mean, we're going to be coming up in the next few weeks. We're going to be hitting you with some like pretty nearly cases.

So yeah just be little .

mattering of spooky in their two just to like clear palot in between. But don't because there's there's some rough ones government ah you .

know we got a move away from the most wonderful time of the year. How exactly except IT still has .

an open yet now technically .

weird yeah. But anyway.

I hope you keep blessing ing and we hope you keep I don't know about that.

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