Anthony Scaramucci: Elon, DOGE & America’s Fate Under New Leadership (w/ Salim Ismail) | EP #132
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Hi everybody. Body Peter d might to hear welcomed the moon shots in this episode will be diving into the department of government efficiencies, elon bitcoin and the broader effects of the new administration on technology.

I'm joined by previous White house director of communications and financier Anthony karma and slim email in our Normal WTF just happened in tech this week of views expressed in this conversation belonged individuals expressing them. My hope is that you are open to this conversation and the many ideas put forward to the future of america. Ah you know me i'm not political.

I am pro technology. I am pro creating an extraordinary world ahead. For the record, i'm excited about the coming four years and I believe IT could be a true roaring twenty years.

Like all things, time will tell. Uh OK enjoy this episode. I first question, everybody wants to know this mug. Is elon going to make IT in the White house?

I mean, I know your friends with alarm, so you want me to be as honest as I usually am.

yeah. Tell me, how many days do you think you want to going to exist in this this White house?

So you, for politics, I measure things in eleven day units of time, also called sca mj OK. So, and you can use IT in the sentence, like liz trust lasted four point one scaramouches right? Or Kevin mccarthy lasted twenty four point five.

Okay, so I think elon mosque is gonna last, in my opinion thirty scaramouches. That's three hundred and thirty days from the and I that's that time merely because he's yeah I still because because he is the richest person that trump knows personally okay, now maybe putin N. B.

S. A. Richard, but the governmental riches, this is commercial riches and and trump, or bite. I know this sounds crazy to people, but trump or bite is tune at times, but he heard you on already and and you you know how I heard. Do you like Peter, right?

Well, he's already started heading towards swards coal and regular gas cars because they're cheaper and more reliable. What else how is yes.

you're saying you're saying you heard of mechanical ics. I'm talking about politically. He teen them with vivid.

okay. And so elon is not an equal to vivid. I like vivid. I respect vivid, but they're not equals. Okay, I was a trump move to stuff eve on a little bit, by the way. Yeah, something is all this .

on the record.

Yeah of course I could trump the coder ring know you know the amount is you don't even have to buy the cereal, okay? You don't have to dig into the surreal like when you were a kid to get the trump the coder ring. I have IT and I did you. okay? So you hear I was going .

to go and I to take. Now this is moonshot. You know, listen, a elon in the White house is a moonshot, actually, in march. T but I want to hear how what's .

gonna first guys started? The origin. You have to start at the origin. Okay, I don't know.

Elan, you know? Elon, okay, I obvious ly respect on, I think is a very incredible figure and a brilliant ogpa AR. But but you have to start at the origin and IT always starts this way.

You get punished by truck. Elan came to visit me. He was on his knees.

Okay, you remember those streets, so you don't remember those trees? I don't. So you get punish by trong what .

I don't remember, but I can imagine them. I mean.

you it's all he was a visceral. He was a visiting elon in two thousand and eighteen, in two thousand and nine. And so because elan was a democrat, okay.

And so, uh the the the the game changed when elan went to him and said, I have believed the democratic party because they ouldn't invite me the v sum, which was a big mistake, you know, the U A W. Went to biden and said, you can invite under the E, V. Someone said, okay, no problem.

Meantime, elan is got more E S going than anybody out there was a classroom mistake. Why up? Why upset you on? But you have to understand.

IT started and tagging m and this is how trumps relationships go. If you're in trump s world, there is one spot light. It's on Donald trump. He's inverse ragan.

Okay, so what was regan? Regan had a black on his desk because that you can get anywhere you want in life as long as you don't care who gets the credit. Trump is inverse reagon.

I get all the credit. You get none of the credit. Don't get too famous, don't get too big for your bridges are going to history with a rag on and that's what he does.

So you guys are pretty swell guys, right? I'm not a mart as a two of you, but we all know that the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again to predict a different outcome. So let me submit to vtr ics. You both answer the question. If there were forty of us that went to work for Donald thump, and forty of us got eviscerated in different ways and blown out and interacted with the mania the downloader represents, and then we spoke out against them and said, the guy's nuts, including his former vice president, are you telling me now the new group of people around him are gonna a totally different experience than the last group of people?

Mean, people can change. I mean, people can change. Uh, maybe just not that much. So I am.

I think the data so so I thought this was like, oh, this is an selling, this is an unfilled. No, he got a lot of economic interests here, right? So a great question question. The probability is you're playing .

with fire. Listen, I I am so excited about the next four years from a technology standpoint, which is, by the way, the the topic of this conversation, this is our WTF just happens in tech this week. Text point so can ask your .

question if you are .

going into this administration, not saying that you are, but if you were going to go, what title would you like in this administration? I want I want sort of like secretary of abundance would be mine um slim about you. What do you want? Um I would go after .

the doge thing just because I think there's an undelivered PPT unity go shift things just not in the style that's going on right now prom with .

a dose thing you don't know. He says austerity is a bomber and a buzz kill for everybody. And so yes, is there on the margin things you can be cut and on the margin of things be made more efficient?

I'm certain that that's true, but I don't see two trillion dollars in that budget cutting. You know I don't see IT and IT will calls a colossal collapse in the U. S. economy. So I don't see that. I mean, we can manage our way at the decoration is but that would be a fifteen your management of IT but I know when he said, you know, Peter, the sector of abundance, I see that but like the best job, the best job yeah would be secretary of the constitution that be the .

best job .

because you you have to understand something your your life as Peter deal on as a has been created by the constitution. Okay, you're from a family of greek immigrants. You came to the country, i'm going to guess not as wealthy as you are now. Okay, that's probably true .

for most people and .

your italian migrants and this country's flat, decentralized system that lasted two hundred and fifty years. You and me sleep. We are direct beneficiaries of that.

So if you said to me I was going into the administration, of course I would never be as to go into this administration ah I would want to be secretary of the constitution. okay? Because in order to get the abundance right, we have to reframe the constitution, probably add at least two amendments to the constitution.

And i'll suit to you guys because your technologies, we are dealing with an old Operating system. That constitution has twenty seven amendments. That constitution should be amended every eight years. By virtue of that, we have had not had a significant amendment to the constitution, to the one thousand nine hundred and sixty five civil rights voting rights amendment. And so we've gone fifty nine years without a significant amendment of the constitution, and that's very, very dangerous. I thought what the founders wanted, and we need to reframe, reset the boundaries of what our Jackson baLances are, and we ve got to make we to remake the system.

Sm, i'm going to jump you in here because, you know, you came from the two extremes, right? Your family comes from india, which is all about hierarchy, and it's about where you are born. You know what your origin story? A cast system is crazy.

And you then go to become a successful U. S. entrepreneur. So you've got far more the extreme of any of us um how do you think about that?

So I agree with um I I totally agree on the constitution side if you could change IT for me constitution is the software rs the country have to be able update IT the promises in this political environment.

You can't update IT very easily and you got this whole segment of a original list that are I go let's go back to what the the framers were thinking and try and guess what they we're thinking the problems you can't and they built IT in so that you would update the constitution. I totally agree that that's where a whole bunch of things need to start, but how do you update in this environment? So I think that's A A valid ds starting point.

IT was built. This constitution in this nation was built in two hundred, three hundred or years ago under a very different situation where people were not educated, you couldn't communicate other than no days worth of hortie gy back horsing across the country we have represented constitutive resented of government and not a actual democracy um so i'd like to be able to vote on issues or assign my votes to to scare muji here on things. Dealing with the constitution to slim on things is dealing with their growth and basically change.

change the picture there. Low 不 low？

sorry.

yeah. I think this is the biggest good. This I think this is the biggest structural issue. But I have a question I see when you look at the the debt issue um how do you use he forget the politics of IT. Is there any viable path to solving the dead problem?

Yes, this is definitely a viable part and you guys are close to elon. I'm not. And if I if I tweet this, it's coming for me. So would be perceived as negative from the tropical administration.

M, or let me give you some things to think about in the alan Greenspan book, the age of turbulence, which which was written in two thousand and seven. Okay, there was a exposition of what the page ago legislation was. And so let me, let me, let me discuss that with, you know what that is page, you go with legislation.

I do you know, I I give a brief of explanations. so. So Richard darmon office management and budget is working for George harbert Walker bush.

He goes, the boys has listen. We are tremendous device spending on the regan where where we're onna have a piece of and the walls come down. We're gonna this peace dividend, but we've got to create some guard words on the congress.

And so I got a proposed legislation. We're going to a get democrats and republic the vote on IT. Here's the legislation.

Pay as you go. If you want a tax cut, that's fine, but then you have to find something in the government to cut. If you want to increase in social services, that's fine, but then you have to raise taxes somewhere.

And so Richard dep. Heart worked on this with them. Some democrats actually lost their seats.

They pass this legislation. And then we went to war accidentally, the gulf war. We had a recession in the united states, and they wanted to increase social services.

So all of us remember, bush raised taxes pursuing the page. You go read my lips, no new taxes, but he violated that right? And he raised tax. Okay, when clinton won the presidency, bosh said to him, listen, we put this page.

You go legislation in, if you would hear to IT, you'll run a budget surplus by the end of the decade and and clinton said, OK, Robert write, my old law school professor wanted to run deficits. He was the secretary of labor, Robert rubin, my old boss from gold man. He said, no, go for the tax increase.

Stick the page ago. You'll send a big message of the bond markets and we'll get to a, we will get to a surplus in this country. So clinton, listen to rubin um at the end of his term we printed at two hundred and forty billion dollars plus and just to remind everybody, the C B, O, nine partisan congressional budget office estimated that there would be a five trillion dollar budget surplus by the end of calendar two thousand ten OK.

That did not happen. Uh, no. And the campaign, bush vers gore, gore said, I want to push that money into the environment.

Bush said, I want to give IT back to the taxpayers. Bush won the race. He cut taxes in march.

But then, guys, we went to war in october of two thousand. One is the first time the U. S. History that we went to war without attacks.

Increase in that we had a tax cut before the war and IT started this deficit trajectory that we're on now. So if you want to a curb that you have to restore pay go, you got to get somebody like in a mass behind IT. Yes, he can share.

Gave a point here or a point there off of the growth of these governmental agencies. But if you actually put the guard rails in over time, what will happen is you'll get to a surplus again. Now could I take fifteen years?

So yes, I could. But you would stop the exponential bleeding that were in right now. So I submit you guys, you can cut two trillion from the budget. IT would be too all steer. IT would cause an economic collapse, but you could put the country on a control of diet.

What is the total budget today that you're cutting?

Two trillion? Six point seven trillion.

okay. So this we're .

taking about, we're taking in about five trillion and tax revenues are running about at one point six, one point seven trillion dollars.

One question, which is, do you guys agree that there is most likely two trillion of fat and unrequired expense in the government budget?

I I do I do not agree that I don't think you .

have fish really .

cut entitlements or cut.

Could you cut six, seven percent from the budget? H yes. Could you find three to five hundred billion dollars of stuff to cut from the budget?

yes. I do believe that you cut two trillion dollars the budget out without causing a colossal contraction in the economy. no.

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You know, given where we are in the steepness ess of this curve, when you talk about A I human otros tics, bitcoin in a whole seu of other technologies, we have the ability to accelerate uh the U. S. Economy significantly. I mean, for me, I think that we're about to enter a period of the rain is that if we can start, if we can really hit on deregulation across the number of industries, if we can increase our energy budget across the united states, if we can give people who get their P H.

D at our top universities of Green cards, they stay here with increase in electoral capacity of this nation, uh, that we can have a renaissance that really drives a the nation's revenues up into the right in addition to cuts. I mean, I think this is the most exciting time ever to be an entrepreneur r of technologists. I'm curious, I mean, do you agree with that that thesis?

Um yes, but I think there are so many structural issues happening like uh, potential work. I think there there has to be a structured path as a glide path to bouncing the budget because otherwise, if we run up, we keep running up dead. And this is the problem that neither party dealt with in the election.

Is the man unbelievable debt cycle because that that's an potential curve in the wrong way. IT doesn't matter what else. What we do is you, you hubble, the government and the country so much. By doing that, the whole thing will improve that. I think the danger and need.

it's never work though. I mean, so the ideas never worked at fourteen years of austerity, and great britain has left the country weaker. And combined with braxy h around a regan understood that fd r understood that austerity does not work.

And that type of radicalism at the government tal level river, everybody says the government should be run by like a business. I can prove you empirically, I can prove you through history that the government should not be run like a business and is not a business. The government has to be run, uh, with a public service orientation towards policy.

And whether people like this or not, the bottom rungs of the people in a society have to be protected by a government. And I would submitted to you that every ford got this right. Every four was a great social engineer. He told people, you are gonna make enough money to afford the car that you're producing.

Moreover, i'm going to make sure you're in a small house with a great school system because I don't want you depending on my dear borne michigan mansion with a tiki torch and a pitch for I just don't want that, okay? And so he understood that good social engineering from the government is aspirational. My dad is a crane Operator out here, along on and with a good union wage, could a four day, sixteen thousand hour house and nineteen sixty two and we could live, is a small little hallway kitchen in one regular bath.

But five of us live there. Very comfortable. Went to a good public school system, and we rose in america, we had an aspirational blue colour family.

Governments have to protect that. You know, trump got the soft deduction wrong. And to his credit, IT wasn't his fault. IT was policy that was put on by the coke family and by paul ryan. But what he got wrong, he now understands.

Okay, in december of two thousand and seventeen, when I was still talking with trump, he said, what do they get the sole tax reduction. And again, that's a limitation of ten thousand dollars of state income taxes of your federal return. And what I said at the president that time is gonna urt.

The economy is gona hurt. The engines in the economy is, why is that IT with these coastal cities? Salomon a, new york, philadelphia.

These coastal cities need safety nets, their blue for a reason. Poor people are teaming into the place. Did sergey brin? Was he super wealthy when he arrived in the united states?

Was elon mosque a mult like a jelly air when he lived in the united states? no. And so what what you need from your government, as you need a platform of equal opportunity.

We don't want equal outcomes. The three of us, I think, agree on that. We are libertarians. I want there to be jeff BIOS, Peter diamond, is you on Marks? But what we have to make sure though, the government got a supply, a smart kid growing up with a poor neighborhood or growing up with a diffunce tional family, at least has a shot. And aspirational opportunity in amErica are for all of those reasons, you can't run the government like a business, and you can take a hacksaw to the government. If you do that, you're paralyze the system and be very bare for the culture.

So and how do you really feel about that?

You invite me, me off a Peter. You invite me off a reason.

You, I did. I did. absolutely. You, I like to listen. So trump to trump taps taps uh must uh to lead the dogon and ads as a body is very funny one of the tweets came out is oh my god, no department of government efficiency is getting off to a bad start because it's being run by two people on of one um how do you think that's going to go not gonna .

well that there's a number of different reasons. No, yeah, I understand something about washington. Washington has an logical system.

Yeah, it's the immo logical system and an antient comes into washington and they recognized and blow the entire out. okay? They discrete the person.

They drop opposition research on them or they grind them. There's four ways. They get ground in washington.

You want to use the four ways I do OK way. Number one, you get, you get an apple drop. You get an apple drop.

Peter demands. Here's the U. S. B. Here's all the bad things about Peter's life.

Go right. That you, I know you a favor. Me a favorite.

Let's get IT on the front page of the washington post. That's number one. Number two, you grind Peter with the security clearance. So you say, I really hate Peters guts.

Let me call my buddies that are going to give him a security clearance and tell him that you can get the security clearance they did that the jail questioner. Grinding, grinding, grinding. A number three, Peter has an asset on his baLance shet that he has to dislodge.

Okay, to get into the government. Sometimes there's exceptions. Let me find the most painful asset on Peter's bounder. Maybe it's his favorite third horse. Maybe it's his favorite hockey team.

And we say, well, Peter, you got to sell that hockey team, otherwise you can't be the secretary of abundance, right? So they they have processes to grind you. okay?

The fourth way is the front step. They come right at your face and they say, Peter, we hate your guts here in washington. We don't want you anywhere.

You're washington OK. Now the fourth way never happens, but that never happens. That's a wall street thing. okay.

So there's three ways, not four, but it's one of the point out that the fourth way never happened OK. So so they're onna grind you on. They are going going to grind vivid.

And remember, the department of government efficiency, not the departments, never been created. You would need a vote in the congress to create that department. You'd have to supply budget is IT gonna be a cabinet level department.

And if IT is, then IT is a whole rigorous that as to go through in the congress. He says the people that formed the department of homeland security. So you know, this is, this is not something going to happen easily.

And him teaming elan with vivid was away for sending both of those guys out the patio right now. The both probably be mad of me if they listen your packets and be like, fuck mood. What is he talking about? But I know that is a guy have the trump decoder ring.

I know how the guy Operates. If you give me a call, I can tell you what is gna do, how is gonna do IT? Uh, because it's fairly predictable, a fairly predictable trump algorithm.

Do you think of some soft between the first term in some of the redick in the second term? Or now he can set a legacy?

Okay, so that that's the hope, right? So so let me let me say that this way the stack market believes that downed d thrup is going to run the country as a moderate centuries center right republican. The market believes what Peter is saying. You're gone to get mild to massive deregulation, a beneficial to a biotech, beneficial to banking, beneficial to crip do okay. You're going to get policies that will for end peace in the middle east and the ukraine.

You figure out a way to dial down the tension globally, and the market is telling you that the cultural stand that Donald trump has taken, and don't underestimate the council culture in our society, the negative impact that has had on people as evidence. My friends' galloway would tell you that a men, White men, eighteen to thirty six, have a thirty three percent higher incidence of suicide than any other group of people. okay? And this council culture is really hurt.

The society 是 one of the reasons why women were voting for their husband's and they were voting for their sons， and they were voting for their brothers. In the two thousand and twenty four election, forty six percent of the women voted down to trump. Over fifty percent of the White women voted.

Donald trump asked, why are they doing that? We're done. We're tired to the council calls jure and the pronouns sage and the different bathrooms and the the sports being screwed up by this nonsense that we're doing in the country.

So so for me there is a shot here. Trumps seventy eight years old, uh, he's got four years to around if he's gona respect the democracy, some people think he's not going to, is reti c suggest may not, but he's in respected democracy. Why not run as a, why not run the government? I should say, as a transformative host, partisan figure, he has his unbeliever opportunity, seventy eight to eighty two, transform the country.

You know, the guy got shot at, I think, on the thirteenth of july. Okay, where, nick, this year or or something like that, I don't know exactly what happened. But he was bleeding.

IT was shot at, and IT was a near miss, a near death experience. God for big, no one would want that. We don't we aboard political violence. But one would hope that that type of near death experience would hopefully transformer, maybe hosted IT there and say, i've got four years. I'm going to bring Peter in to learn about abundance are going to lean selection to learn about and i'm gonna sh an agenda that healing and unifying to the country that could happen ah but there's another scenario that happens that could be ugly for the country and that would be said if IT happens.

what do you think is the worst case scenario?

I mean, unfortunately, the worst case in area is he takes the project two thousand twenty five playbook and he begins the process of deportation. So the the deportation would be cata cosmic. I would hope somebody like elon mosque is a very smart man would get in this year and beg him not to do that, because the deportation comes with swat vehicles, armored vehicles, concentration camps.

IT say IT would be one of the bloodiest cultural exercises, and IT would room the welcome mat that this society presents. League, you told grammar and the dean of the kana school of government, the founder of singapore, said that amErica will always be preeminent. Why do you feel that way? Because of the welcome mp, you can come to amErica from any part of the world.

Richard or poor, you can arrive in america. And in five short years, you become an american. Maybe it's an indian american, maybe it's a greek american, maybe it's an italian american, but you become an american.

It's very, very hard to do that in other cultures, a result of which the baLances sheet of intellectual capital that can arrive in amErica is unlimited if you graphically deport fifteen million people from amErica and again, don't cope by me. That's what he saying. That's what tom home and is saying, okay, if you do that, you will destroy the fabric of what this thing represents to the rest of the world.

So I I agree with you, but there are two sides of that equation right now. We be carefully.

You don't want to agree with me because you are .

on the trump enemy list. In and Peter.

about three days, though trumped, I was a major loser on so so how much do you think trade loves me on A L nine point five?

I agree. I agree with you on the mass deportation. I do believe there is a percentage of those individuals who are criminals who should not be in this country, who we should be looking at removing them out of society.

I also think, unfortunately, that we send so many people back with A P H D, that they earned A M I T or harberger stanford, and then the accident from the country, right? It's it's perverse and in reverse. And so, you know, how do we stamp a Green card or stable Green card on blood diplomas?

These individuals who come to the U. S. To get the best education, they there should be in fact not only a welcoming but like, uh you know, a requirement for them to stay in country and build their companies.

Know we have our our native uh indian indian here salam, and we have near the the ceos of the tech companies in the U. S. Have come from india is an incredible engine where we can attract those who have the aspiration and the drive in the willows to the united states. We should keep those people here, for sure.

So listen, we agree. But you have to understand something. When the leader of the free world and the leader of a country that linking called the last best hope for mankind is using the rhetoric of dehumanization on non White immigrants of the country, okay, when he's dehumanizing those people and he's talking about those people as us verses them and vermin and their eating dogs and cats, okay, it's very, very bad.

Symbolic for the united states. Just is, is not that's not the symbolism, okay, that we should be projecting in the united states, okay? You can get trun policies that you may like without that type of brutal rta c that creates not as around a columbus, ohio this weekend, sweat stickers get in spray on synagogues.

We don't need that, Peter. We do not need that. I will continually speak out against that.

It's totally unnecessary. Yes, it's a rough sport politics. I get IT, but we don't have to go into the realm of hate speech.

We just don't have to do that. I want to go into the realm of bitcoin. So you got a book coming out on december forth, the little, the little book of bitcoin, you just released a revision of the little book of hedge fund. Are going to put a link in the note here for your pre orders for little book of bitcoin and today, O, M, G.

you're welcome pleasure .

to contribute in a small way today we're at ninety four thousand dollars for bitcoin and sellem the bet you took by marketing ing your house uh, and spending IT on buying bitcoin. Good move, but good move. So, ninety four thousand my .

wife wouldn't me do all of IT。

But yeah okay, time to more good again and put more in. So here's a question, right? So Kathy wood is predicting by twenty thirty, we'll see one point five million to two million dollars per bitcoin. I've seen higher and lower estimates.

Um you I remember this great cartoon that had a father and son talking and I said, dad, do you remember when bitcoin was under one hundred thousand dollars? Um you know and we're seeing that we're seeing this massive increase. So match what's your prediction? What are you feeling? What are you seeing? And let's talk about underlying forces here.

Well, the first I want to say is that I didn't see IT. I got IT wrong. I went to this wonderful a event at singularity, and I heard sleep speak, and I heard you speak.

And you may remember, I remember this, uh, but I think you wrote, actually, you can, my book. So you do remember, I met now, ni, and he was scribing to us what big coin was. And I don't know was that one hundred dollars and two hundred? I don't remember what exactly what want, but I didn't understand, okay about great three hundred dollars.

So I didn't understand IT. And so uh, as sleep said, Michael seller says, you get the point at the Price you deserve. IT took me a long time and I and I finally finally got IT.

I started buying IT in october of two thousand, twenty november, december. Price for the block. Yeah, the average Price for the block I bought was seventeen thousand. I've held every every year coin. I'd bought more coins in the weakness into two thousand twenty two.

But the reason i'm starting with I didn't understand IT is there might be viewers and listeners to your show that are our age, Peter, that may not understand that they may be afraid of IT. okay. So I appreciate bring up my book as I tried to write a book, the way selling wrote that entrepreneurship.

Ook, you know, ten or so years ago about what is actually is. So you could open the book, not going to intimidate you. You can read what IT actually is. And then maybe at the end of the book, I would make the cases of the best investment of my lifetime. And I would make the case this is probably still got a ten x in IT.

I would think if I can get to the market capitalization of gold and I what I would say to people is I don't know anyone that's done the homework, Peter solem, anyone that's done the homework that hasn't gone towards bitcoin. I have never met somebody said, you know, Peter, I did a tremendous amt homework on this hours and hours and hours, and I ouldn't touch this with a ten foot paul, paul toter Jones, stand rock and Miller Howard lutnick could name allegiance of people. Michael seller, Michael seller told me, and he will tell you this bitcoin is a joke as we said, okay, he was like two thousand and sixty on.

He started .

that really on. He started buying the coin in August of two thousand and twenty first speak bought two thousand. And then, you know, he got a new conversation with my partner is you guys have to buy some of the big one. You know, he said, once I figured that out, I couldn't sleep. I couldn't sleep once I figured that out.

I think his his framing of due a hundred times research on IT and then see and it's really an arbitron intellectually. And studiousness is what IT is. That's a huge, huge framing IT for me.

yes. So so what I what I would say to you too, okay. And I would say your viewers and listeners, please give big quittance, okay, and recognize, like me, Michael seller, perhaps the two of you and others, we did start out a skeptics about what IT actually was. And until we fully understood that we didn't gain confidence in as being part of our investment portfolio, I tell you quick sale story before you .

go on to update the .

dual enjoy so my eyes, okay, so I call seller and I said, Michael, I need you to write the interrogation in my book. Happy to do IT, but I need the manuscrip. And I got to read the book.

I know I said on the manuscript, he calls me late August and he says much. I said, yes, sir. He said, you know, I hate the last chapter of your book I like to look through.

You say, yeah, because you say, at the end of this book, if you wonderfully explain this thing, and I learned a lot in this thing, actually, a lot of stories that you put up, the amount of contributions, all of the stories, I learned a lot. But your last chapter says that someone to put two percent of their money in big on. Let me ask you something, how much of your network is in bitcoin? I said, Michael, fifty five percent.

He said fifty five percent, okay, because fifty five percent in bitcoin. Uh, so why are you recommending two percent? Let me ask you something.

You said this is the best investment you've come across. Yes, Michael, do you have fifty other investments that are as good as this? I said, no, Michael, then why they have a reporting two percent?

I said, because I have no balls and i'm under great regulatory scrutiny, a register investment vision. So we rewrote the last chapter, another last chapter regards that story. And I say, i'm at fifty five. I'm supposed to tell you to be at two, but you should pick a number .

that's good for you. Yeah ah it's my largest invest. It's my largest asset myself. Sleep, where is IT fair in your portfolio?

Yeah and it's not for me is in the forty percent range, thirty five to forty percent. What I love about IT is as time goes by, the percentage of my portfolio a representing.

put up the percentages and fantastic for .

me of the book by jeff booth, Price of tomorrow, yes, is what nails where he says the we're we're growing the global economy with four x the debt per dollar increase in GDP. And that just tells you everything you could possibly need to know. And I love the back to the technology framing, which is that when they floated off the gold standard, they did not know that technology is deflationary.

And so more advanced technologies cost a lot before you could borrow ten million dollars build A T, V factory. And a year later, those TV should be worth more or costs more. But no, the TV are with half as much a year later. And if you borrow a ten million dollars to to to chase after a deflationary technology.

never money. A good point. I mean, so there are so many different reasons to own IT. But but I am grateful for the people like Michael sale have been great evAngels of IT. Grateful to you, Peter, you introduced ed me to a grateful to you sale uh I I confess I didn't understand IT. Uh and again, if you're out there you don't understand IT, please listen to us and take the time to learn more about .

IT you know microsys, I were roommates and have alternative .

together you that yeah M I T yeah .

I some some stories we're not on there. Um yes uh so so I look forward, we hit ninety four thousand per bit coin today. Pretty amazing, right? I was like, can I move money fast enough a few days ago to get in ninety? no. Uh, but the question is, you know, if my if my head of finance is listening, let's still move that money in. You know, when is the best time to buy bitcoin now?

Yeah and I .

have no interest .

in in the other than, if not people buy, the Price goes up. But that's a different story. You know where is there any risk that you forsee? We've talked about salem on previous episodes. Quantum computing breaking various uh encoding um and whether we can get quantum encryption up and whether that can work. Um you know you've made the point that situation is wallet, which is now worth how many billion snow, seventy billion is the greatest more because .

you've got one million tokens and we're at .

ninety four.

ninety four billion.

So you can whatever that .

gets hacked, then it's time if you if you're going to cheap hacking bitcoin, you get ninety four million billion dollars.

But but hold, this is this is important distinction. Here is you could hack the wallet, right? You could get some private, but that doesn't break bitcoin, right? So encysted may solve the inscription issue, but IT doesn't solve the distributed nature of the of the token. So you you have resiliency at two levels there.

Well, here's here's that I would say to both you guys, I would say that up. One thing that I would worry about, and this is an existential thing, is we, you know, listen, I I, you you've got people in the sand avian region of northern europe preparing themselves for nuclear war. okay? And so we know that, uh, vlada putin changed the rules of engagement and are also using a nuke.

And so, you know, if we're going in that direction, it's going to hurt bitcoin, it's going to hurt other assets. And IT will put us in a situation and unknown situation. Why you so so what I here's .

my question. Understand if if the world was going to held the hand basket, I would imagine that for some degree because you can't you can eat your bitcoin. You can't eat your gold.

Um it's Better to have a farm. But to some degree, bitcoin would seem to be the most protected asset across national boundaries. And why isn't guised a disruption in economies and governments increasing the Price of bitcoin for security purposes?

So it's not it's it's not about increasing or decreasing IT. It's about your quality of life and it's about your ability to use IT if you needed to use IT. Because if you've destabilize the global order to the point where were you ready in each other on the planet, that is an existent al threat to every part of your asset portfolio, and that's an existent al threat to your standard living and your great grandchildren in standard of living.

And so we've been able to avoid this since the one thousand and four days because there have been rational actors in control of these warheads. And uh, you can, you have to pray the regional conflict. You see the the european and see the conflict difference than us guys.

When you go to the european capitals, what do they say? Well, you know, heller walked in the poland and no, in september of one hundred and thirty nine, okay, and he took one year, but he ended up in france and he ended up in, ended up in france in june of forty, and he added a bombing the U. K.

In september. And what I would say to you guys, finland and sweden were not members of nato for seventy four years yet in the seventy five years they raised their hand as that look, we'd like to join nato. And so there's there's a there's a thread going on.

And if that thread is nuclear, okay, yes, maybe your big coin would go up, uh, because of the instability, Peter and I accept that. But you're going to have so many problems and i'm going to have so many problems a lean, the people listening, okay, we have to to get to the world that Peter wants. Uh, and you've written some amazing books about this, and I often cite your books, but the git to that world of abundance and you get to that world of technological advancement where we're deepening the wealth of everyone. And i'm talking to lower middle income people.

up lifting proved up .

lifting. All of humanity. The first we have to do is not kill each other. That's the number one priority.

So if you you we have to be engaged in civil discourse, rational discourse of the balloons city of donal trump's rhetoric is not beneficial. IT just isn't OK. We can pretend that IT is, and we can make allowances for him.

But we can do that any more than we can accept that we're gona lower the thresh hold for nuclear weapon ary deployment in europe or potentially in the U. S. You ve got people, a national TV in russia.

talking about blown up. Everybody take a short break from episode to talk about the company that very important to me and could actually save your life, or the life of someone that you love. Company is called fountain life, this company I started years ago with tony Robins and a group of very talented physicians.

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And you know, IT didn't start that morning. IT probably was a problem that's been going on for some time. But because we never look, we don't find out.

So what we built at fountain life was the world's most advanced diagnostic centers. We have four across the us. Today, and we're building twenty around the world. These centers give you a full body MRI, a brain, a brain vasculature and AI nobles, ordinary CT looking for soft plack dexia scan, a grow blood cancer test, a full executive blood workup.

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There's this amErica first approach, um Anthony, that is for me uh a threat to the em many of the dollar, right? Because if you're stopping the world's policemen, there's a higher chance of people stop using the dollar. Do you see that correlated and .

you see that all? So of course, I see that correlated. I am going to recommend a book to both you call amErica first, it's by hw brands and amErica first is the first american first movement which was a hostile uh, movement started by Charles limbo and father confine you long and any time you move in that direction, you create legal instability.

okay? And so if we're going with amErica first, and the amErica first movement chAllenges the system, this unbelievable legal system is very predictable. The united states, the property rights of the united tes, you know, you, you, you, you have in practical and unpredictable property laws in places like russia, in china, because you don't have a diversionary legal system, okay? And so you don't have the legal president to protect you to matter who the ruler is.

And so if you move in that direction, you lose dollar hageman. And let me provide a quote to you from the levithan three hundred and fifty years ago. Thomas hobs wrote the following paragraph, and i'm paraphrasing, but you'll get IT what hub said that the world has its greatest level of peace when one hedda mon, when one hedda on with military superiority over the other nations uses the force of its military might to put down the internecine conflicts around the world.

So all the way is a force for good pox romana, pox preta, whatever the vega is of the colony. Lisa self like that. I'm just talking about the military suppression.

Okay, parks, americana. And so what helps said three hundred and fifty years ago, they teach at west point, and he said that we need to be a force for good. You know, when truck was talking about the aren't they paying their fair share? Uh, I was on the campaign plane with them in twenty sixteen.

I said, this brand, I want to provide some historical context. Or military leadership actually did not want them to pay their fair share. Anybody mean what hell at all? Why is that? They wanted military hegemony. They wanted military priority. They did not want germany or japan to rearm after the second war war.

And so even though we had that treated and forty nine related to nato, they allowed them to have that lassy so that we could be a form factor of ten over the other people because we saw ourselves, right wrongly ly as a benevolent democracy. okay. And so, yes, that whole idea that rhegium threatens that position. okay. And so so that's why I want to be secretary of the constitution.

I think I think that world a safety, uh, predictability and stability. I think no, everybody believes that is is key. Let me share this this quick video here. This is so Anthony y, you're gna be on stage with me in march. At the abundant summit we have about two hour session, a pleasure .

body and in .

Cathy woods going to be with this as well at the summit, uh, in in early march. Let me play this quick video of Kathy and let's talk about IT.

We have a twenty thirty target. In our base case, it's a around six hundred and fifty thousand dollars. In our bull case, it's between one and one point five million dollars. Now remember, we were to the first public asset manager to gain exposure to bitcoin in two thousand and fifteen at two hundred and fifty dollars, and we still at ninety thousand. I think we have a long way to go.

All right thoughts.

you. I not only agree with her, I admire her because SHE was shaken to the core by the financial media in two thousand and twenty two, and he was unwavering. And i'm also an investor.

I will fully disclose you am an arc investor. And so I have a lot of admiration for her, but I want to point out something to you. What she's talking about is insignificant in terms of the overall global market capitalization of asset. So let me just explain that.

Yes, let do. To do that's important.

let's use the eighteen trillion dollar number, which is what the total capitalization is of gold, and let's stipulate for viewers and listeners that gold is perceived as a store of value by people around the world. Okay, but there's, you know, tens, hundreds of trillions of dollars of IT. Do you still on go to my own gold? Yes, I don't on go. I don't own gold, but many people are age. Peter do on gold.

do you know?

Yes, I went .

back in two thousand and eight. Uh, this is pre my abundance mindset, exponential mindset. Two thousand eight, when the economy is being hit by the housing crisis. In all, these predators will call you up and say, hey, you need to buy gold, you need to buy gold and have been available.

And so I bought, like you know, a few ounces of gold just to have them in the safe so that if I ever, if martial law him in, I need to go in and trade gold for for you know food that was available um and you know I went on I went on T V was I forget what I was. C N B C. I think in twenty fourteen and twenty fifteen they sell your gold by bitcoin um and I wish I had told even more and did he bought only bitcoin? So eighteen trillion dollars and what's the what's the total market capitalization of a big point today?

One point nine trillion?

yes.

And two yeah okay, i'm just hundred two. okay. So you know, forgive me because i'm this things updating every moment, but let's say it's one one point nine for the saga of this argument. If IT goes ten x IT becomes an equivalent in the overall asset tabulations of the global capital, equivalent to gold yeah and so you know we know that technology, the portability, the immutability, the scarcity of bitcoin, uh, IT IT should trade to a higher multiple in gold. And that's why Kathy saying her ball case one and a half million, you would get you to the twenty five trillion other number.

But here's the thing that I would tell listeners at eighteen trillion, it's not even a pinal on the s of the global economy is going to understand that yeah gold has one, two, three percent asset allocation big deal, central bank's own gold. But we're talking about something at eighteen trillion dollars that is a non event in terms of the overall capital allocation. But let me tell you, onna happen because I spent thirty five years on wall street, less my eleven day for aso in washington.

And let me tell you going to happen. okay? These people are gonna sell this idea to their investors, the great wall street sales machine.

We suck at so many things on wall street fellows, but selling is not one of them. okay? And there are legions of financial advice.

There are legions of financial consultants. There are powerpoint presentations coming out of fidelity and black rock and powerpoint coma coming out of galaxy that are absolutely legendary. And what you're gonna get people off zero yeah.

Now before you came on, Peter solem told me, and I don't know the answer to this, but sleep told me that heat thinks appropriate. Twenty percent of the bitcoin has gone as a result of early adaption. Somebody lost their hard drive, somebody lost their laptop.

So I don't know, let's say that three and a half to four million, big point. So you're telling me because we've got a minit over the next hundred years, let's say there's nineteen million that we think is out there. Four million is gone.

We have sixty million global million air. We have fifteen million big coins. So you know, you tell me what's gona happen, okay? I believe this asset will trade to that million and a half dollar number.

And if you get the regulation right in the deepest, most liquid capital market in the world, the united states, we have a very friendly crypto to congress coming in and a script of president OK. I think this stuff happens fast. And can I say one last thing is very important, where at Prices right now that we should have been at in january of twenty two, this got suppressed by gary gangling lor.

You had a approval of the bitcoin futures etf. The administration of law requires you to be approve the cash to have right away. We didn't do that. We had to have a lawsuit with that man. And here we are now.

All right. So let's react to this washington post headline here. Trump ice pro gypo candidates. For federal financial agencies. Um do you know these folks here?

Anthony y, what do you think of them? I do I know has very well. I know dan galle.

Er I been on television with and gallery. Uh, Christie and carlo is come to my conferences. I work with the man gary gancy lor uh, at common sax.

Paul atkins is actually one of my best friends from a high school. Went to law school with paul actions. So yes, I know those people very well.

We know the gary is obviously uh no surprising because he did teach a kick class at your oma motor that was probe procreate. But he decided politically he needed to be at the crypto one war someday. Have to ask him why? Because he knows detect the promise of that technology. But those other people be very good for the industry.

And here's a fox news, uh, article. Here is a pensylvania house introduces bill implement a strategic bitcoin reserve. Talk about this one.

So this is a monumental on so many different levels because what they're basically telling you is that this is going to be an important strategic asset globally. And they are looking at this thing and with if Kathy, what is right, and I believe he is, you're going to buy a dollar, uh, at six sense right now, if this thing goes to a million dollars, I predict where you you can buy IT at nine cents, ninety or point nine, four cents.

And so yes, I think that will be the first of many. There will be a value of corporate, an offense of sovereign availed of states that they do exactly that. And by the way, the state was cards.

And this is a beautiful story. They put hundred and fifty million dollars into I bit the black rock etf. And then the guy was asked, what why to hold you do that? Say, listen, if you're not long bitcoin, you're short bitcoin.

Someday some consultation coming in in my office and you're gna tell me that I need stacks and bonds and hedge funds and private equity and they are going to say, you know, you need to one or two percent position in bitcoin and i'm going to be like short big coin. Why not don't IT now? And so when they have eventually get there, i've already got my position at a lower cost spaces. So that's that's also happening.

Guide, silly.

is going in the long. The that I saw that I loved was if you put one percent, one percent of the fortune one thousand puts the treasury in bitcoin just that drives a two million dollars is a bit time yeah and I think there's a bigger picture here, which is that there's about six hundred trillion and global assets but half of that is real state and so in that um and thing exactly right is like a gold still a couple of percent on that on that is a dot uh on that whole a .

picture so said he was the opportunity to on the s of the .

economy if you are trying to be canadians are a little more polite um is is that you you can it's just got so much range to go and in the absence of anything else, a true uh deflationary limited uh scarcity model like this gives you unbelievable upside. And again, fifteen years later, nobody y's found a way of hacking IT.

And even the guys that I know that built Cosmos and built a theory um and so on, or like you know, we first hated the proof work things. So we look build proof of state networks. Now we see the proof of work is a really powerful foundation because the act of doing the work just gives you so much confidence in the foundational aspects of IT. So so just watching the, the, the kind of the the dominoes topple everywhere I can see around this.

Unknown to the majority of the people, okay, I went to a thirty five year reunion at global sacks. I started there in August of one thousand nine hundred eighty nine. They gave me five minutes to speak.

I said, guys, I just wanted do a survey. How many of you in this room own bitcoin? nobody.

How many of you have kids that don't be coin? Maybe three or four. And there was one hundred and fifty people in the room. And so it's so early and it's so scarce. okay.

And then when somebody says it's rap poison and buffy says its red poison, is rapp poison scared and but asked him, as he done any work on IT, does he understand the technical properties that you've described? Does he understand where IT fits in terms of the new ferguson checklist of how we think about money and stores of value? Okay, this thing is technologically perfect for that.

And that's not Michael. That's Michael sellers. And the same people. You just said there's only five percent global adoption. This is where web one was in nineteen ninety nine, but you just said ninety five percent of the available investors does not know.

Let me give an example. You know, I talk about a what I call the six, which is a way to think about and predict the impact of technology on different industries. Anything you can digitize enters appeared a very slow deceptive growth and eventually disrupt and along the way IT dematerialized IT demonetized and IT democratized.

right? So we've seen that the first three printers where these little um cross linking up with ultraViolet steroid hotoke phy and IT was very slow and very deceptive in the beginning and now we're three printing entire rockets were three printing homes. It's disrupting industries.

You know the codec digital camera that was that was devised in code labs um point zero one meg pixels originally then point zero two, then point zero four and one point zero IT all look like zero and kodak ignored the digital camera. And to put them out of business when IT digitized dematerialized and then democratized where these things we have happy snaps now in the trillions. Um and so what we're seeing here is that bitcoin is in the same area.

IT was deceptive in very beginning, right when IT was going for pennies to dollars to in a box that was insignificant. Well, guess what? It's now at one hundred thousand dollars almost.

There is becoming disruptive and IT has dematerialized our financial systems, dematerialized banks and traders and exchanges uh and IT is being is democratizing access. So I think this is just one of the Normal transitions that we're seeing in this exponential growth curve across industries. swim.

I am curious, a decade from now, a is is bitcoin um something which is uh, what nations are basing their reserves on, what companies are basing the reserves on, how fast do we're going to see this transformation? And there is a there is a point at which IT flips in which you need to have uh, what you're doing based on on a bitcoin um platform. When do you think that's coming?

Every treasury sectary in the world is looking at this now, right? And every third and every central bank, they not look at that some point the brave ones will start over and then a your right will will be a flipping point and then the whole thing will go. Um I was asking jeff booth about this, right because the key questions when do we that little tipping point is like which snowflake crazed the final snowflake that has the village come down? Um it's hard to predict that one. All you know is the avalanches na happen and so you basically bet on the avent, uh uh, on that sense, I think this is uh, I would take I would say IT takes about another year or two in the middle of some of this uncertainty we're dealing with and people go, oh my god, da have to be in IT and then it'll just start a cascade from there.

That's my rough guess. You know, I, I, I, I agree. I guess only I wanted say from example point of view is you are going to have a permissionless space transfer wealth system.

And so when I went to rome for the first time I was twenty one, thirty nine years ago, I waited on line, the post office by a calling card call my mom. I was fifteen. U.

S, dollars. O, K. And I gave me five minutes of calling time, three dollars a minute. Now I can go to room, I can log into any internet cafe, and I can face time, my mom, for no dollars minute, or any wife. So to understand, yeah, so what's gone to understand what understand what's gone to happen.

You have seven trillion dollars that were spending globally to verify transactions, to qualify transactions, credit card fees, wired fees, all different types, ancillary third party verification that ends with this cryptology, that ends with this block chain. And said differently, h, two guys came to see me from elsa adore economic advisors to the president. They said, if we can set up a wallet to wallet transfer, we have fifteen million experts in the us.

They want to send money, their parents or family. They've gotto go to western union. Ten cents on the dollar goes.

The western unions, over thousand. They're all on bank guys. They're all on bank. Ten cents goes to western union, ninety cents goes to mom and dad.

They would say four hundred million dollars a year when they wallet to wallet transfer. Okay, over the black chain. So you guys know is your technologies.

When IT works Better, it's more efficient and IT saves money. IT gets adopted. And even if the government doesn't like the government hated government hated uber who like uber .

to people like uber yeah I I talk about countries that made uber illegal as the anti technology nations you don't want to start your start up in. We are seeing, uh.

quick bo course course .

I have the founders. Uber is gonna a speaking at a and three sixty as well. And when can we talking about moon shot? So you'll have a chance to ask, come or tell these .

additional stories. So so a few years ago one of my community members says, hey, can you help me get a meeting with the finance minister friends ah and I would love some guidance and like what's to me about he said, yeah as well you got one question which is how do you shut down uber because the the taxi is going to strike the buses, going to strike the airport on track the president yells at is lives the mess so is like I I need to figure out where chatting on ur so five minutes of research and around paris you have the ball you the suburbs of north african uh uh horrible judge crime infested neighborhoods IT turns out the french government has spent forty billion dollars over the decades trying to solve that problem with zero outcome except with that eighteen months previous because of uber prime rates of drop ten ex because all are driving so so this guys trying to shut down the thing that saving him a forty billion dollar problem and those the little ancillary benefits that people don't see when you see this .

type of systemic change increase.

How do you think about the age curve for bitcoin adoption, Anthony? Um i'm you know is is something that Younger? I adopt IT faster. Is that A A A generational issue right now?

No, no question. Our generation mean you. okay. I don't know how old slim is. You're an old bastard.

as am I. By the way, you look fantastic. What are you?

Something that you gave me ten years ago? You know, i'm ninety five years old. I think I look great for ninety five.

amazing. And by my face back. So then my face is pink bag like Jones rivers. And i've got enough i've got enough botox on my face to kill a snake and problem saying, but but I but I I am taking the Peter deal on a cocktail of supplement city suggested to me about eight years ago just so you know um but I I think our generation is gonna ss IT, Frankly. Again, like I said, six percent adoption globally.

If you're sixty, you're not buying bitcoin twenty years and now at eighty and these our generation is going to miss. Some people will get IT. There are people in our generation. Howard Marks told me he hated bitcoin. Uh, obviously the c of o try multi billion air, but his son got him to do IT. So there will be a group of people from the thirty years junius that knock on the million of their parents and say, hey, I don't know what you're doing, but you have to have some of this in your portfolio.

I asked my mom, god blesses, she's eighty eight and I said, where are you're putting your distributions and um you know, show me your report fully said you gotta put IT in a bitcoin um mom, please do that and he calls me back and he says my financial advisor, Morgan wouldn't allow IT and they don't have a mechanism for doing IT. And i'm like, that's immoral. I mean, IT pisses me off. I said, change financial advisers. You know, there's something .

happening in the Younger generation that is really fascinating because i've been dragging with the entire N F T world over the last two, three years. And you give these discord channels where they're trading N F and trading ordinance and whatever. And what's fascinating is you never, ever, ever, ever hear the word U.

S dollar, it's all the theory um or it's all bit clinks. So the unit of account for this next generation is not tied to the dollar for us and everybody older us, we only think we have news, the dollar and therefore there something really big check because our mindset shift is that, that state change is gonna low. Them to be flexible as to what they view as where their stores of value are. Think that's a game changer for the next.

I have a question for both you guys.

I agree with you.

So remember twenty seventeen as as bitcoin was peaking back then, everybody was buying and trading shit coins twenty four hours a day, right? IT was and I I looked in my my treasure um you know hard well instead I have all these coins, no half or dead. A few are still sort of like a barely alive ah what do you think about anything either than bitcoin? What you think of a syria? What do you think of other cypher currencies? Uh, is there anything else worth looking at?

You know so listen, I I am a big believer in salona as a as a utility token as a later one utility token. It's a it's got properties I like it's very fast, low gas fees. It's easy to build on. That is a big T V L big community. And I imagine a day uh to salem point about um we lived in a dollar base world, but now our kids don't live in that world.

I'm gona imagine a day five years and now where this phone that i'm holding is going to have a toga ized version of my disney stock, a toga ized version of warm mart, a toga ized version of star box IT likely be on salona I walk into store books and they said to me, hey, we're having a share where purchase going on here and so that four dollar coffee, we're in a giva for three dollars and fifty cents but can we take a sliver of your stock out of your portfolio from your phone? Or the same thing could be happening at walmart or home deepo. And I think that stuff is gonna happen on a theory or salona.

Okay, but I like salona Better because I just think salona is a Better mouth strap for speed and for cost. Now you guys know there was s chives, there was altis a there was all kinds of search ages to get access to the internet before google showed up. And so maybe i'm wrong. Maybe there's something out there is going to be a Better Operating system, the name. But I do think that over the next ten years that they will do well.

Sm, anything about theiler?

Yeah, yeah. I agree. I'm A i've got a slight extension to that, which the what i'm hearing right now, talking to the various folks in the in the crypto trading world is you going have bitcoin for being safe.

You can have mean coins for gambling and the utility tokens become less relevant from a gaming perspective, but much more relevant from A A solid uh, bet on certain use cases. As anything just mention, I think you you end up with three categories. Mean coin tude, do you know, trying to get one hundred x on something? The utility tokens where people are excited to a file coin because of that use case, or salona for payments or whatever. And then bitcoin is a safe .

place to be at. Worth noting doge coin such one hundred and fifty percent sense the election day, right? So, uh, doge coin Spikes after trump announcers, department of doge.

I mean, no, that's you. I mean, that his gift. I mean, I mean, the guy is a brilliant y he's gonna A I all the AI people, and he's going to outboard the tunnel people.

He's done IT over and over again again.

He's done IT over and over again. He's man. He's the men. I guess my only thing with elon, I mad a friend, that is. But my only thing with elon, we all have blinds botts in life, and you are an ancient greek Peter, and you know that the gods have gifted us with many different things, but they take certain things to from us.

And i'm telling you, you gotto be very worried down on trump because he heard a lot of you, a lot of feeds on me. It's a lot of people in his wake. And evan and is got a great life.

He's built some amazing businesses. And I know he wants to help the country. I wanted to help the country, and I wish him well, and I hope we will be unbelievable successful. But you gotten, be careful in the that man real quick.

I've been getting the most unusual compliment lately on my skin. The truth is, I use a lotion every morning and every night. Religious ly called one skin.

He was developed by four PHD women who determined a ten ammo acid sequence that is a cynical tic that kills senile cells in your skin. And this literally reverses the age of your skin. And I think it's on the most incredible products.

I use IT all the time. If you rested, check out the show notes have asked my team to link to IT below, right? Let's get back to the episode.

By the way, I think IT is worth noting that island's points of view here. He honestly believes them, right? I don't see these as maybe i'm nae, but don't see them as manipulations.

I mean he honestly believes that um you know x was required to h enable truthful conversations. The onesta believes that tesla is important for a global electronic omy that that space x is going to make us some multiplying tary species. Um he's got enough money.

He's driven by doing things that he finds meaningful. And so I was surprised by his jumping into the election as much as he did. I mean, he bet everything he went all in.

I mean listening again. He helped trump tremendously, particularly embed ziani a um and and I want of the help trump I hope I hope chop listens to. You know the problem with trump though, if you land gets a little more famous of the ragan that's what trump said some the other night and I left, he was at the amErica amErica first policy institute dinner and he said, Bobby, Bobby, you're getting more famous than me.

Bobby, don't get too famous. And that's the, that's the sentence before he with the fuck and regard, you know, I mean, that's the sentence, you know, and i've seen them do with so many people, you know. So I hope, I hope that doesn't have, you know, je vance, since the election.

Look at me. J, D, 有 1。 J, D where are you?

J, D, because. J, D, smart. He's like, this is trump show. Let me get the fuck added here.

But J, D, you want to do an interview? No, no, i'm good. Jd, where are you? Jd, got the fucking and water had on Peter. I'm saying, where's waldo?

Well, you learned a lot in those eleven days, didn't you?

Remember, I work from for nine months, I traveled .

around on a plane .

when I remember, when your son know, used to really put them off right space, your greek friend rines, you really piss them off. Because the way i'm talking to the two view I would talk to, trump s like that and freebies didn't understand that he was like a major, you know, D C S S R. And he was like how the house he talked in a trump like that. And the truth, there were new yorkers. No.

I I have a framing. I'd love the bounce off I think because you know you know an ideal world you end up with win win outcomes. And my concern with um at least the way trump hasn't in the past is there's no win when everything's win lose and if you play the game are gonna lose.

So best not to play the game would be the would be the outcome there. And that's why lots very smart people don't want to get involved. Do agree with that.

don't agree that. Well, yes, I do agree with that, but I don't agree with that. Very small people don't want to get involved as islands, very small as people. More as for the planet, people are intakes ated to get involved.

And if I will tell you guys, and I will confess this to you, and again, going back to the ancient greeks, right? My pride and my ego will be my moral enemy. And so my wife hates down trump almost as much as multiple hate them.

And that's not way up here. okay? And I crazy hatred and and he told me not to do IT, but I did IT because I was my ego talk.

And I need to go work for the present. I D, I built a business, went the harvard I gotta go work for. I gotto work in the White house.

And were, there was a guy, I can't tell you his name, but you would really respect this. He got a big appointment, and he called me in december, and he said, i'm withdrawing my name. I said, why? Yeah, I enjoy.

And I met with trump three or four times, and I dawn done me that i'm going to get to hurt. And this is gonna hurt my family and um i'm putting my ego in the right place and i'm pulling myself out of the position. And I was like, wow, this guy so stupid, how can we do something like that? He was right.

Salem, I was wrong. He was right. And sometimes the big lesson and investing the big lesson in life, get your pride in your ego, out of your decision making, you know, be be self aware.

You know, my wife said to me, you and trump on a campaign, no problem to jack s is going back for to each other him as present united states, you work, inform. You're gonna in a nightmare. Okay, because, you know, he wants now, sick of IT.

There's nobody talking to trump away. We're talking right now. Nobody, nobody. I tell me, please. I know a lot of people that are still working with them. They call me all the time, nobody sitting there with the straight shot to really have .

the hash out, right? I'm going on to next subject here. We've covered this .

one before and prospect.

R, F, K, coming in healthy human services, reinventing our food system, our medical system, our health care system. Me, first of all, uh, our food system is killing us. Let me just put that on the record. I think we are, uh, we are being destroyed. We are being manipulated.

The fact that kid cereals don't have black box warnings on them for the of sugars there is just is um and just cheap, salty, sugary foods for the poorest IT is simple for us to have that as our baseline a and we need a reinvention of the entire health care system. So uh how do you think our F K is gonna h going to serve? And and fair in this at the first question.

The second question I want to put out there is deregulation. Uh, i'm in the health and biotech industry. I invest on the biotech companies. I've started a number biotech companies, and IT has been just destroyed by regulation. You know the fd s thesis is we're not happy to you're not happy, right? Doing anything you a novel is effectively illegal or super hard because you're penalties zed for something you approve that kills one person and you are not penalty zed for something you don't approve. Imp, approve that is killing hundreds of people in that disease category so let's take out R F K and deregulation um who .

wants to go first? I respect bob full disclosure like you, he helped me on the big coin book um um i've held Bobby politically. And again, we can talk about the vaccine situation with Barbies.

Some of the things you saying makes sense. Perhaps people, the medical community, would chAllenge some of the things he saying. So i'm going to lead that to the medical community.

I speak as a dad. I believe everything that you just said and I ve experienced, Peter, if I go to greece and I eat food, I lose weight. If I go to italy and I eat food or drink coffee, I lose weight.

And I eat food here, the same food, I gain weight because there are so many preserve tips and so much no sensible stuff in the stuff. okay. And we did something to the countries. Why I want to be secretary of the constitution. Citizens united has corrupted the county.

Because if i'm big food or big former, let me light up everybody in the congress and then let me tell everybody in the congress that I need to put feriz er and additives and preserve tips in the food so I can cheapen up the manufacturing the food yes, cheap ing up the Price to your point, but IT stays on the shelf for fifteen years and IT makes everybody fat. Now, you know, because your scientists at a doctor, if we went back to our obesity levels in nineteen, nineteen ninety one, we'd save to know about two trillion dollars. We'd save two trillion dollars and health care expenses if we just went back to the portion sizes and we just cleaned ed up the food.

So by the way, I think that is the biggest savings we can have is in our health care costs, right? yeah.

So so so Bobby talking about this and a Bobby can implement this. I want to a brand statue to Bobby in front of the F. D.

A. okay. And Bobby, Bobby, whatever you think of Bobby, Bobby has been on this for three decades.

So, well, okay.

then, and he's right about this. So, so you tell me, I want Bobby to get that job. I know there's some establishing people who don't want to get that job, but bobbies in that job.

But you know what I told you about the grind and washington, right? You'll find something on i'm not going to crying that guy. You know, we need twenty people going into that department on with Bobby that think like Bobby to understand what i'm saying.

I but unfortunately because I have a eleven day P H. D in washington scum degree, okay, have eleven day and horary doctorate. And what i'm telling you is that he can't do IT a lot. He needs a region of babies to help him.

Um so I agree with everything you said. I think citizens united has been .

a real nightmare for the country.

Yeah that's a that's a huge problem. And the problem might think we is that IT doesn't matter with the Bobby Kennedy or somebody else. Yes, he's got an unbelievable track record of environmental fighting corporate interest sector.

And god helps us. We need ten x more than but how much can we do to undo the regulatory catch in both health care and in food? And that we need that and I may need happen level above. And the best thing we could do just educate the population that this is really what you're doing today, he is really bad and let the market drive changes.

So so you and I agree what I would say. A bb, you got to go district, district. There's four and thirty five of them, and you got ta do podcast, local radio, and you got ta do local media, and you got to get to Peter and salem family and every district and say, please call your congressman. Please call your congress woman knock off the relationship with big food, Michaela. And by the way.

Bobby is listening. Please come on. Moon shot. I would love to what you're planning to do is an incredible moonshot.

Now is the man and I totally respect them. But i'm just saying to you, Michelle obama, try this. And all nine and in two thousand and ten they cruise a vide.

They started to corn. Or Michael obama, they put all kinds conspiracy theories out on the internet that was big food and big sugar that went after malle. Obama is a great documentary about this couple of years ago.

Send you the link. But they crucified her, and he wanted to win reelection. So they backed off the food safety standards in the country.

But that's why he had a garden in the White house. SHE was growing our own stuff to feed her children. We shouldn't be doing that in this country. Too rich and two successful of the country. Just use the european playbook on this stuff.

Let's talk about deregulation a little bit because, you know, right now, if I want access to stem cells in various regeneration medicine treatments, i'm flying down to close to rega or mexico or other parts outside the united states to yet access to that, which I think is kind of insane. Now does there more research needed? sure.

But the end of the day, uh, we have enough data to say there is a reasonable level of safety. And if i'm an intelligent adult, I should have the ability to access these regimes, dan medical a treatments instead of having to leave the country. Um I also saw as we all have the biotech stocks just going down a world, pull down the drain over last few years with short sellers. So i'm hoping and believing that we're going to see uh deregulation really h ignite a in your health uh dividend uh for biotech. How do you feel about that, Anthony?

Yeah listen, I mean a couple couple of things I would say to you that again once again big former because big farmers put in pressure on the F D A M D M A which Bobby is a proponent of and I believe Peter, you have help my son with these empty make projects of ah people .

don't know M D M A is a psychoactive drug. It's been uh used over and over again with people who have a severe trauma, uh to overcome that trauma, to do IT in a beautiful and Graceful way. So um anyway please go back what you are saying.

No, i'm just, i'm just saying that. Hello, F, D, A, how are you? Yeah, this is visor.

You guys want to a job, your adviser, in two years? Oh yes, we do OK stop. M, D, M, A, hello, this is fazer.

We don't own everything related to stem cells yet. And so we don't want those approved in the united states. You gotta go to coastal rikor, panama, okay, no problem.

And oh uh H M my glue tide, which you know is a pet tide, okay? There's always been available once they license IT and once they made IT a drug, let's use IT. But these other peptides, like the one fifty seven peptide, others, sorry, can't use IT because it's too universal.

So this is where babies going with all this. And so yeah, I think it's unfair and I think it's wrong and I think it's hurting the country. And we weren't like that, Peter.

You know, when jonas soc came up with the vaccine, he opened source IT. They didn't make any money off IT. What we won't like that, okay? And we have to go back to that sort of standard in the country.

And so that's why, you know, look, look, whatever you think, a donal trump, bobbi Kennedy is not going to be the secretary, health and human services without Donald trump. So I spent a few moment shein autumn, some of his retorts. But as a disrupter, I give him credit.

And then I want to be fair and objective. I I want bob to succeed. And the bobbies proven wrong about a vaccine or or this that or the only thing I never saw whatever talking about. Okay, let's prove that. Let's get data.

Two hundred. I do agree that one of the policies that trump put forward and whether was him or his advisers, that you can't regulate an industry and then jump into that industry after you retire. I mean, that is absolutely um it's it's a ridiculous uh, farce 一样。

I think this goes right back to the previous conversation on how do you get big corporate interests out of the regulatory and it's a systemic issue. Uh, hopefully, if there's somebody that could do that would be public can um because he's got a track record of that. Hopefully he has enough restrict to be able to .

do IT effectively. So you know, listen, we have a overstate our welcome here, anything on your schedule, but and we haven't cut AI .

thrill to talk to both.

I want to have you back here on on WTF just happened in in tech on our moon shot podcast because I love your new york attitude and so you know, and your hair .

is just amazing recipe .

that appreciate you too. And your your son.

A J is doing .

a man you call that. You see IT when .

you see my son the next time, see A J when you were walking on the beach at eight, eight. What did your dad say about your footprints?

I will ask, want to hear what I say? sure. What do you say? Yeah.

OK. He's a free. He's a free for me to tell on the park. So you ask, you ask.

alright, I will ask him .

when I want .

to know when he sets the recording of water. A right there .

is so much that happened in this last month in A I in humanity, robotics and space. Um it's pretty extraordinary. I think people need to realize we live during the most extraordinary time ever in human history. You know, our ancestors would view us as god. Uh, and I hope that what we're going to see over the next four years is the roaring twenties, that we're going to see the amount of capital flowing in, the amount of ease that entrepreneurs have to reinvent, you know A I and robot and human robotics can truly bring about an age of abundance and as the secretary of abundance, i'm going be pushing that as hard as I can. Um sleep remind me what what your cabinet post is here again again.

I forgotten now in the in the richness of this conversation but that would be in the constitutional amendment.

You going to jump into the into dodge .

and you said dodge. You said dodge before but yeah but after .

hearing the the difficulties we have to lift up to the higher level to fix IT and then you can come back down again.

That's the truth. And there's two things we need. Number one, we need a constitutional amendment to fix citizens united. We've created a separate but equal democracy.

Money matters more, and IT should in the society triple say, no, I spent less than her and I beat her. It's not dead. It's in the congress.

Since january two thousand and ten, that decision was rendered. The congress is all about corporate welfare. The congress is all about doing what big business wanted IT to do.

Very, very bad for our society. Gotto get back to the people. Second amended, second big amended that we need. So that would be the twenty eighth and the twenty nine the memory is to. And Jerry Mandarin has to be ended.

sorry. Yes.

you got ta get these congressional distract to look like the g metric shapes that we could recognize from nine th grade geometry, not the jig saw puzzle nonsense that we have now. And guess what would happen? You would deliberate the extremist and you would liquidate the long ten years uh, service because, you know, hey, man, you got to get in middle. These are marketing competition. guys.

I love the term limits idea for congress.

Have I got rid of a the electoral college and just going to a straight democratic vote of three hundred and thirty million americans?

Would that ever happen?

Don't want that. You don't. Why don't want that?

No, no. Because remember what the system is. It's a republic. And so the system is designed to have representation.

But to prevent mob rule, okay, you have to have things in place to protect minority voters. I'm talking about black or Brown people. I'm talking about the election was won forty one to fifty, fifty one to forty nine.

You got ta protect the forty nine. And the founders understood that the electoral college does that massively. Now people are upset with IT because the last couple of elections, the electoral college was diverging from the popular vote, but that that works.

If you don't do that, these candidates will sit in the coastal cities and will go for the popular vote in the middle of this country, will be ignored by those candidates. And i'm telling you guys, you don't want that. We've already got enough strain in the country trust. The three to two hundred and fifty year mechanism of the electoral college maybe hasn't worked perfectly in the last twenty years, but trusted over the next.

But Anthony, the candidates right now, we're focusing on five states or pennsylvania. I mean, how how you is that are, I disagree, dolt.

Trump winter, california. Donald trump's three rally in new york state downed trump. t. Did a rally in new jersey.

Okay, download mp was trying to win the popular vote as well as the electoral college vote. Yes, that was a playbook for eight, twelve, sixteen and perhaps twenty. That wasn't the twenty four playbook.

And and by the way, pay attention. You made this light. Trump, or like trump, he is a formidable political beast. And he was playing to win the popular vote. He went to states that he couldn't win to improve his margins in those states and to help the representatives that we're running downtown lot from him.

Yeah, I guys say about elan. I would never bet against elan ever, right? What he did with X, A, I, going from raising six billion dollars on day one to building out his colosse cluster one hundred twenty two days and blowing away the competition, and I doubling IT get in size. And I think the same thing for trump.

you're not going to bet against him, his family. But you got a, you got a, you got a check. His retaliate, my friend, i'm just telling you, as a citizen that loves the country and I certainly love the promise of elon mask and I I hope I must live to be a hundred and fifty and I hope he's worth ten trillion dollars because he's adding economic value and economic rent to the society.

But you got to to check people that speak cruelty to other people can do. It's understand. And i'll in because I am from a family of immigrants. They told my grandmother to go back to the country he came from. Okay, and you can have the president I says talking like that, sorry, without somebody calling amount on IT and saying, hey essel cut IT out does .

not respect important access across the board, especially from moto leaders right um respectful I like silly. You're going to say something .

I if something about amendments and constitutional stuff, uh, I would go after the second amendment as well .

just to tweak .

IT a bit.

But the .

week we don't have to touched on that when you get IT refreshed for the next great american century, which makes the system fair, more plural, uh, and protects people from tyranny. So that's exactly what our founders wanted to do, that the reason why we were so prosperous, let's tweet IT up again. And to prevent an oligarchy, we don't want an olaga.

I want must. They were three, four trillion dollars. But I want there to be a very deep, very broad, middle and positive, growing, aspirational middle class.

Is body early, encouraged by just in the world? Is that if you went back a couple hundred years ago, the richest people in the world exclusively and had had their wealth, and today, the richest people in the world have actually created their wealth.

And I think that's incredible. What, I mean a lot of that has to do with the american model, it's been exported to india and the U. K. In europe. The area came up with that right court came amazing.

one of my venture, experimental adventures at A I uh fund, investing in MIT and harder teams. We have two companies founded by effectively twenty one years old that have gone from zero to two billion dollar valuations in under two years.

The ability to create wealth today is insane, and I think it's just beginning now the good news is when that wealth is created um you know facebook and and and google and OpenAI have created not just a couple of billions at the top but hundreds and thousands of seven millionth below them that then go and invest in the next generation. And there's this engine, right? I just got back from india, india, a ford cities, over the course of two months.

And the problem is that that doesn't occur there yet. You've got a great idea. You leave the country, you go in building the night states, and the wealth is not being created that is flowing to a large percentage of the entrepreneurs. We then reinvest. And so we need to preserve this what this special sauce that we have here um and I think that can .

are IT and spread as you can spread some these ideas to places like india, completely change the game there.

And I love you. I love you. Remember member something, your freedom of press, the first amendment secretary, the constitution drives the economic innovation.

Do never forget that because we teach our second graders to speak and think freely. They create D X prize. They creates singularity university, google, facebook.

They develop a big coin here in the united states. And remember that, okay, if you teach your second graters, they can talk about dear leader. Uh, and they ve got to go into a reeducation camp if they do, they don't innovate.

They have to steal our intellectual property. Okay, so these sacred ideas that have been in these text for hundreds of years are there for a reason. Okay, that is one of the fountains of our innovation and our creativity is the free press. I don't go away after the free press, okay?

I mean, but you know, the last thing i'll say is media in the united states is changing dramatically, right? The old news networks are vying and slowly d materializing on their own. I mean, this was a podcast election. I would say if for the first time ever.

I lost .

the plot, the meat look, by the way, by the way, I don't agree what the media is doing. The hard right or the hard left? The nonsense.

okay. And so what happened? Great innovation happened. Joe rogan comes on, I don't know, hundreds of millions of downloads.

And people think a jaw is a fair Albert of trying to get to the truth. Bobby Kennedy has a podcast talking about uber men as a podcast. You two guys have a podcast.

Okay, you know, i'm inspired by your pocket. When I listened your podcast, my things are going to be okay. And I and I walk, confess to both of you that I have stolen.

And by the way, I don't give either of you to credit for anything. I steal the entire thing for plagiarizing. okay? Elements of what you guys talk about in terms of exponential and abundance, and they get people off of thinking linearly while the world is happening around them exponentially. I listen to you guys, and I import and then incorporate what you guys are saying and that's that's that's not legacy media. That's a new medium.

I think this is .

a perfect the media blows. So now we've got people like you coming in to innovate and they're going to be forced .

to change yeah if they still exist. So but let's .

have the free press though they want to act like essays on the left or assaults on the right. Who cares? New media will come in and knock those guys out.

Yes, I mean, what I love about X, I still all twitter, but what I love about ex is the fact that anyone can post and that i'm not beholding to some editor who's telling me what they think should be posted. I can see IT all. I can follow ARM chi here.

I can follow selem. Um, listen, this has been a fun conversation. We still have a lot more to talk about. So let let's do this. Let's do this trial again first.

Grateful for all the time. Thank you. Thank you a huge fans of you guys and uh and by the way, thank you for introducing the healthy because it's part of my lessons and stupidity that I didn't have the inside the judgment or the understanding of what he was saying and god blessing for coming up with IT and saying IT and helping IT alone so .

much where can people find you? Want to remind you the little book of bitcoin is coming out december fourth, will put the prior to link down below or just google if you have a website up for that already.

I do well, everything's scar mg that net. So ww scarmelli net, really there are. There is a website too, for little book at phones, little book a bitcoin but scare muji net i'm at scare muji on x at scare mode on instagram i'm at scare mute on blue sky i'm at scare my sons are pissed me I took all the ad scare muji on winding and and what can I tell you?

Okay, I got there first, some older than you bastard. And and listen, I have a podcast on politics. I do IT with a woman in cat.

K. H, she's a british journalist, is called, the rest is politics. U. S, and a is a fun podcast because because.

you know.

it's long form and a unfiltered, you know, I said, I know.

love that I can wait to go. Sten to and appreciate the .

book recommendation you to last week's podcast stores with CAD. K in her british accent, reading the lass trump treat about me, calling me a major loser, a major loser. Of course, I know that's a love message from him, because I know exactly how he thinks. You know, you know, the ants called the hitler bobbi Kennedy had bad things to say, but everyone gets, everyone goes in.

And at a trump world, you know, changes his mind. Sometimes I can imagine the phone call, hey, match, come back. I need you.

Trust me, I guarantee you.

But I .

guanches, I guarantee that will be peace in the kingdom, you know? And he he loves moxi, and he loves balls. I'm going to let him go off to my wife without taking a model.

Little come on, guys. Peter, you grow up about here. Would you want me? You want me to go to this italian restaurants out here, uh, with people thinking that trump .

could walk on my, I love your body. You are right.

This is a really is a little time here. I ve .

got.