cover of episode Interview With Tokens.com CEO

Interview With Tokens.com CEO

2021/9/30
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Moon Or Bust

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Episode Summary:

Guests:

Andrew Kiguel, Tokens.com) CEO

Meet The Hosts:

Brian Moir

Solidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012

https://twitter.com/moirbrian )

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross)

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara)

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Unedited Transcript

boom, good afternoon. Zinger, nation. Welcome aboard the moon or bus rocket. Ship your hub for all things. All coins and defy. My name is Logan Ross, and I will be your captain on today's space flight. Okay, I'm going to be co-pilot by defiant developer, Brian Moore and exit liquidity. I mean, I mean, uh, uh, uh, best trader in the world, ran back in the mirror.

Number one, Dex trader. Um, awesome. So welcome guys. How you doing? Good. How's it going to captain, captain Mike Bryan? Cause I, uh, lost a 12th word of one of my seed phrases for a wallet. I can't figure out how to get it. And so, um, I got to do some defy developing. Did you really do? Huh? That's a good, good time.

Yeah, not your keys. I'll always keep your private keys and your seed phrases safe. Okay. Um, okay. So we're going to talk about Cardinal today. We're going to talk about a lot of cool stuff. Uh, but before we can take off before we can blast off, I need to go over some general safety procedures. Okay. So please keep your arms.

Okay. Uh, and portfolios inside the vehicle at all times. Uh, and those who are willing and able please flip your light button into the on position. Uh, it does a lot for the show. If you're new around here, make sure to subscribe to the Benzinga channel and check out the description while you're down there.

The top link is the Benzinger crypto separate YouTube channel, where you can get all of the specific crypto clips. Uh, and then there's also, let's see, we got the telegram down there. We got the merchant link down there, pick up your sick eith hat. Uh, and we got a 25% off discount code coming at you. If you join the telegram, which is also linked down below, we also have a lunar bus game, uh, which was really cool.

Um, Ryan and I helped, uh, helped to build this and you can click Mooner bus. You can vote on all your favorite tokens. We're trying to get the community involved here. So check that out as well. Uh, go make your votes, check out the website. And there's also all of our old videos there. We've talked to Tim Draper, we've talked a bit, boy, we talked to the creators of ACCE infinity.

So go check that stuff out. You really don't want to miss it. There's a lot of valuable info there as always make sure to connect with us on Twitter. You can see our handles, uh, hit us up. If you've got some questions you want to know our thoughts. Um, and also we want to know your thoughts. So what projects are you looking at this week?

Drop them in the comments below, um, projects, tickers, whatever you got forests. We want to see it, and we'll try to talk about them. If we get some time today. Uh, we also have a sweet interview coming up with tokens.com. Uh, we have Andrew Kegal coming on the CEO of the company. Talk to us about how he's giving defy access defy, uh, um, uh, exposure to these institutional retail investors.

It's really cool. Uh, so stay tuned for all of that, but first up on the docket, uh, we have car Dano, smart contracts launching, uh, kind of, kind of unexciting here. I don't want to say it's like the challenger. Uh, but, um, Ryan, why don't you just tell us what else. Cardona said September 12th for smart contracts and they deliver it.

They brought us some smart contracts. They had a successful hard fork, the Alonzo hard forks, and now there are smart contracts on Cardona. So that's really cool that the youth Maxis can't say that Cardona doesn't have smart contracts anymore. So now I can't make that argument, which I guess is good, but it seems like they might only be able to process one transaction at a time.

Cardinal has been having some trouble doing concurrent transactions, which is very necessary for defy. So although these smart contracts are. There aren't very many defy applications that you can use. Don Cardona. We were looking over this morning trying to find one. We could go over on the show. We couldn't find any depths on Cardona that are up and running.

Now I saw that men swap one of the automated market makers on Cardona was up for a little bit, but they were having problems with their smart contracts. Like I said, they weren't able to run concurrent transactions. So they weren't able to run more than one transaction at a time on their platform. So I'm not sure if that's been fixed yet, but these applications are not up and running from what I can see.

If you have any dabs on Cardona that are up and running, put them in the chair. We can have a second to go over them, look at them, see what they're all about. Uh, but as of now seems pretty lackluster. And I think car Donald's price shows that we're dipping down. I didn't check today, but I think we're, we're what low $2.

Now we hit $3 last week. So I, I don't think it's looking too good for Cordato after all of this hype and now they're having problems after launch. Uh, what do you guys think? You guys are the ADA investors you're bullish on Cardona. How do you think this plays out? Brian? You want to take this one or you want me to go for it?

Yeah, I can, um, say a few things. Well, one thing is a comment from the just ADA, you know, Foundation, the people who try to do the, who added the smart contracts and everything like that. They said that this is just now it's just getting started. And so there's a lot of room to run here and I don't think they want to put out a subpar, um, product or anything.

But one, one thing that gives me pause is that why, why didn't they have this already ready to go for the date that they establish in? Why was it a little bit more feature rich than it actually is? That's it's not really concerning, but kind of annoying because it's like, come on, let's let's get this party started.

Let's go for it. You have so much money. There's all these people invested in it. There's all these eyes looking on it. There's all this help. There's the, one of the co-founders of Ethereum's heading it off. So like what's the holdup. That's my quick. Yeah, for sure. And we saw them deploy smart contracts on their Testnet.

Uh, like a couple of weeks ago we saw the same issues going on. Uh, and it's really amazing to me that they didn't fix it or delay the launch. Um, in, you know, CarNow has dropped 11% today, 14, almost 15% on the seven day. It's down to 2 42 right now. Uh, so people were saying Karmanos smart contracts. Weren't priced in.

I don't know about that. It kind of looks like they were, and their, their, um, flawed execution has kind of taken a share out of their market cap, which I mean, makes sense to me. Why are they worth $78 billion? When Salada is worth $46 billion, they have this. Uh, defy ecosystem. So Ilana has $11 billion in, in TVL like locked in protocols.

Uh, whereas Guardado has nothing. They have, they have a large amount of their, um, of the ADA staked, uh, for validating the network. But that shouldn't come as a surprise because what else can you do with Cardona at this point? There's no other way to make money on it. Like, there's all these different applications on Ethereum, it's Atlanta, uh, where you can get higher returns than, than just securing the network.

Um, yeah, I mean, it's kind of disappointing to see this happen. I I'd like to see, uh, you know, them kind of fill out the potential to fill out, uh, the, the reasoning that they're justified with, why their market cap is almost $80 billion. Um, I think they have a, uh, there, you can tell that these guys are developers.

You can tell that they are on the, you know, the technical side and know how to make things happen, but are not good at marketing. They're not good at, you know, letting people know exactly what's going on. I kind of disagree. I kind of disagree because if they're the good, if they're good at the technicals, then why aren't their smart contracts working?

Why isn't the ecosystem there that their main strength I think is marketing and Charles Hoskinson is leading the way. Right? All the, all these people, all these Cardona lovers like love the project because smart contracts and Charles Hoskinson right. That's not, they have no other like justification. Um, and.

I don't know, I'd like to see more happen. Well, what I think what, what I was gonna say was this looks like it was just the date. The hard fork was going to be launched. It wasn't the date that, you know, all the smart contracts everything's going to be working correctly. Everything's going to be this crazy new Ethereum, all this other stuff.

It was just the date that they were going to do the hard fork and start the process. And I don't think that they made that, you know, known to all their holders to, you know, anybody, they just kind of, you know, everyone expected to go this full route in this full, like, you know, smart contracts, transactions, all this stuff.

And to be just like Ethereum or salon or any, any of the others, but it looks like it was just, they did the hard fork and they, you know, now we start. You know, that's just my thought on it. It was definitely an interesting decision by car dyno, not to delay the smart contracts. Oh yeah. They knew it wasn't working.

It was on the Testnet. So, I mean, they had to expect that these stamps weren't going to work when they, when they issued this hard for it. So why not delay? I mean, they get a lot of flack, especially on social media about over promising and under-delivering, I think this is one of those cases, but I think they probably should have delayed the hard fork because then the dabs could come out when smart contracts are running on the ecosystem.

And it seems to me that would be a lot smoother way to do it, then release these smart contracts that nobody can really use right now. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, so yeah, we've got a couple, uh, comments, one from HD 5,000 explaining about the transaction model. Oh, whoa. Can you hear me? Okay. Uh, so the, the unspent transaction model is what card auto has implemented.

It it's the reason that these defy apps are having these problems. It's supposedly intentional, supposedly supposed to be bringing benefits. Uh, but we only need to see, uh, some, some sort of alternative to enable these applications, you know? Um, let's see, what else do we have here? So is it a problem with the developers that are building these decentralized applications then?

And not technically Cartano smart contracts? I don't think it's a problem with the. They would like the developers building like incorrectly. I think it's just the model that Cardinal has chosen. Uh, isn't capable of handling this. It's the, it's a different model from Ethereum and it's, uh, unable to like dApps.

Aren't able to do multiple interactions with them within one block is basically the, just a bit, I'm not super technical. I'm not an expert specifically on the, these deep, uh, portions of, I, um, if you guys know out there, please do drop some comments, let us know. So we can, you know, get all of our facts straight here, but, um, we'll have to see what they do in the future because without the, the, the defy ecosystem mirroring Ethereum, hearing Solana, it's going to be interesting to see what use cases they're able to pick up instead.

So, um, that's what I have for today on Cardinal. Well, we can look at the prices or we can move on to, to the arbitrary news. Uh, were you guys feeling. Either way. Yeah. Maybe pull up the prices anyways. We can keep them on screen so we can maybe go over some layer twos and their prices. And then we can go over and look at how light coin has been affected by this recent Walmart news.

Sounds good. I will say one thing about the last thing I'll say about the ADA thing. Cause someone just mentioned, uh, ADA tokenized or.io and I am on that site and, uh, it is in beta, but we're not saying that the Cardona does not have smart contracts. They do have smart contracts. They're just not what we would expect from the co-creator of Ethereum, but you know, it's just not ready yet.

And it wasn't known how far it would go. So it's, it's still in a process and eventually it will be what we all want it to be in my opinion. I mean, hopefully we'll see some decentralized exchanges popping up soon. I know a lot of people are bullish on Sunday, swap, like to see that launch and I'd like to use it.

I'd like to get my hands on it and start being active in the, in the ecosystem. And there's definitely a lot of opportunities within Cardona's ecosystem. Hopefully there's going to be some airdrops coming out. So if you're an early adapter to any of these different programs, Ancar Dano, there is a possibility that you could get airdrops some tokens, which would be really cool.

Everybody loves free money. Just don't tell the S DC about it. Uh, yeah. So here, oh, this is Bitcoin. I was a Cardona for a second day. I don't know what happened. Eight years up at the Logan. Do you see one maybe for Coinbase by now finance? This will do. Um, so these are the weekly candles right here. So I was ripping through July.

Uh, and now it's a correction. I mean, I don't necessarily think that this is like entirely the fault of the smart contracts. Not, I think it's pretty high. Yeah. There could be a lot of profit taking mixed in here. Uh, don't want to, to create any untrue FID, um, but we'll keep our eyes peeled on this situation and we'll keep you all updated.

And we also want to know, uh, what you guys think about it. Um, and maybe you could even come on and chat with us, hit us up on Twitter. If that sounds like you. Um, okay, so let's talk about light coin next. Yes. Over the light coin. And then we can talk about arbitrary Monday or Tuesday after. Okay. Cool. We did just handles or.

For show for show. Nice. Um, so you guys have been living under a rock for the past six hours. Light coin is not being accepted by Walmart. So it was fake news. It got picked up by a lot of different publications. Lots of stuff came out, but then the CEO of Walmart went on to CNBC to clear up the news. It's not actually happening.

It's fake news. And the most concerning part about this, at least in my opinion, is that light coin, the light coin foundation actually tweeted about this partnership this morning saying that Walmart will be accepting them as a payment option. And then later deleted that tweet. So I don't know who sent that tweet out, who was able to do that, but it was completely fake news and it was pumped by the light coin foundation themselves.

So I mean, people are talking about this being a facilitator for some more regulation coming in the space. I mean, not man. I see that because what we were at less than a hundred. $80. This news pump the price up to $236. And then once people found out it was fake news, we're right back down to under $180.

So if you're able to catch that move, pick up on the fake news shortly coin, and you probably made some good money, but you got to stay up to date with this news. What do you guys think? Do you think this might cause some more regulation in the future? I mean, it's really the news publications fault for not verifying any of this information, but at the same time, light Quinn really shouldn't have tweeted about it.

I mean, they're obviously wrong for that pumping fake news for their own coin. Not a good look whatsoever, I think. And there's probably a lot more backstory to this that we probably won't know because it seems like such a big deal. And if light coin foundation is bumping it. I mean, it is like announcing it, then there's something else going on or, yeah, it got the Twitter account got hacked, but that Newswire is from kind of a reputable source.

And so they immediately, well, not immediately, but like a few hours an hour or so later they put a disclaimer, say, Hey, this is not true. Um, like going is not being accepted by Walmart, but it's pretty fishy. It's weird. Interesting. Weird. If you, what do you guys think if Walmart decided to accept cryptocurrencies, would they go with light coin or would they go with something else now?

And, well, they're also hiring for a blockchain developer in a cryptocurrency expert, so they, they trying to create their own. So why would you accept light coin out of all of them? You know, it's just, it's just weird. All right.

All right. Let us know what you guys think about this situation. Would Walmart take light coin? Would they take Bitcoin? Ethereum, Cardinal. What's going to be the move here. Um, but for now we have probably, yeah, probably doge coin. That's probably, I mean, that's from a, from a, like a technological perspective.

Doge coin is the most advanced cryptocurrency in existence. Um,

A whole lot of cap up in here. So I want to talk about Adam real quick. Uh, Adam has seen a new all time high today, uh, which is dope. We've talked to the creators or some of the lead developers on the cosmos blockchain on the cosmos protocol. Um, we talked to them a couple of months ago earlier this year, we talked to Dennis as well.

Who's also working on the team, um, maybe like one month ago now. So go check out those interviews, uh, if you haven't seen them yet. Uh, they're really, really cool. Adam has a crazy project. That's all about blockchain interoperability, right? So there's a lot of blockchain maximalists. They say Bitcoin's the way.

Themes the way to go us a lot is the way to go. Uh, and then cosmos comes over here and says, oh yeah, well, the demand for blockchain space will probably grow to fill all these blockchains. So eventually we'll need to connect them. We'll need to have room for application specific chains, uh, that can lower fees and all be connected through a hub.

So cosmos blockchain is the central hub that all these other blockchains are plugged into. If you're familiar with polka dot, they got something very similar going on, but we're seeing this atom token rip. I mean, we interviewed them when the, when the coin was down here. Uh, it was such an interesting project to me that I was picking it up in these ranges.

Uh, so now, now we're doing really well. This is a good day for me. Look at these. This is, these are the weekly candles here. These past three have just been nuts. Um, you guys, did you guys pick up any Adam I've been holding Adam's since it was about at $4, some I'm pretty happy with it all. Very nice. I don't have any Adam.

And I mean, it looks like it might be too late, but you never know. It looks like we're in price discovery right now. And like we saw with Solano after we crossed those all time highs, we just ripped, we went up another two, 300% after that. There's really no telling where the price goes. Once we pass all time highs, especially when we're not in a bull market, per se, with Bitcoin and Ethereum at new all-time highs.

I mean, typically these all Queens will follow the market, but when one of the few that don't don't and go to new all time highs, a lot of times you see really big gains. So I'm, I'm interested to see where Adam goes. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw $50, honestly. Yeah, yeah. Now they were die. Uh, so yeah, that's another one we wanted to point out today.

Let's see. Should we talk about arbitrage? And we have about 10 minutes left before this interview, more like eight. I'm going to take my, my screen share off real quick. Maybe we can talk about arbitrage, uh, on a theory. Yeah, man. Our Trump's been picking up a lot of traction. There's over $1.5 billion locked within its ecosystem.

It's a layer two scaling solution. It's a lot like optimism. So you, you bridge your assets onto the chain, the side chain, I guess it's not technically a side chain. It's a layer two, right? Logan. It is a layer two. Yeah. Okay. Uh, but yeah, there's $1.5 billion. Like most of this, it was interesting. I was looking to see where all this money was going within the arbitrary ecosystem.

And most of it was going to this program called . So it was like a Nyan cat themed yield farming protocol on arbitrage. So since it's a layer two solution, the fees on it are much cheaper. So you can actually yield farm much more efficiently than say on Ethereum, blockchain. Uh, but this, the price of this Arvin nylon token one.

50 cents 40 cents all the way up to like $8 within just a few days. And has since dumped back down to around 80 cents. So we were seeing super high volatility on this token, and it's going to be interesting to see whether these yield farmers stay in Arvind eye on with the price down so much now, but either way, $1.5 billion locked in an ecosystem that's been around.

Well, I guess the ecosystem really is a theorem, but the arbitrary gateway has been around for less than a week now. And we're seeing already over a billion dollars, locked on the platform, which is just absurd to me. I mean, it took forever to see salon reach a billion dollars, and now they're at 10 billion.

So we'll see where the growth goes, but it's looking really good for arbitrary. It is looking good for arbitrage and, uh, they sucked a lot of the volume out of some of the other bridges, specifically those to Solana and those. So I think Ryan, what was the other one there? And do you remember what the name of that site was?

Where we could see them all. I don't remember. No. You mean Mulana, polygon and Solano, I think. And then there was one Holly gun that sounds right. But there were three and they were down like 30%, 40% and 60% well Arbitron was up. So it looks like a lot of this money coming from other layer, one scaling solutions like salon are, are actually flowing back into the Ethereum ecosystem and using these layer two solutions like arbitrary optimism, mainly arbitrary right now I haven't checked how much total value is locked on optimism, but I don't think it's at a billion dollar say actually, no, it's not at a billion dollars.

USCAP because with all the layer twos outright now arbitrage has 60% of the total value locked. So compared to its competitors, it has the most by far, which is very impressive. I'm not actually quite sure. Why, why do you guys think that arbitrage is the one seeing adoption? I mean, it's pretty similar to optimism from what?

Yeah. One thing is it's under the same umbrella as optimism. So it's owned by the same parent, well funded by the same parent company. So they're not technically competitors, but they do very similar things. Um, I couldn't tell you what, why one is better than the other, besides it going down to more, you know, better marketing, better selling points and just, you know, catching the right niches and places to go.

But that is one interesting fact though, because they're both kind of in the same family that it's weird that they would, I mean, I really do not know. I'm guessing the arbitrary has more like volume available, more space available, uh, for processing. If I had to guess that would be the reason that it's beating out optimism at this point.

Um, but they do use the same, excuse me, the same technology, the optimistic roll-ups. Um, and Ryan, I found L to beat right here, uh, and we can see there's $2.2 billion locked in arbitrary of 3000% over the past seven days. That's pretty good. I wish I could do that. Yeah. I haven't used arbitrarily yet, but Logan, I think you're right.

I think it is cheaper to use arbitrary than optimism. Right now. I went in, I did a transaction on optimism on unit swap the other day, actually just yesterday. And it actually was kind of expensive. It was like 0.01 to Eve, which is probably around two to $4, which, you know, it's not bad, but compared to Solano, which is like 1 cent, it definitely doesn't really compete.

It's still kind of expensive, especially if you're doing a lot of transactions. Now it's nowhere close to a theorem. That's 30, $50 a transaction, but you get that security with Ethereum. I don't think they're really competitors whatsoever. I think these layer twos are really competing with Solana and Binance smart, our chain and those other proof of stake.

Smart car contract blockchains. Yeah. Killer killer question mark.

All right. Uh, that is our market update for you today. We have Andrew kugel backstage right now, uh, from tokens.com. So I'm going to bring him on, uh, right now, Andrew, welcome to Muna bust. How are you doing today? I'm good. How are you guys doing great. Thank you. Uh, no on that, uh, that conversation that you guys, I mean, yeah.

It's some interesting stuff around, so yeah. Yeah. What do you think about the whole, a layer two ecosystem? Are they the Ethereum killer killers? You know, I don't know. I think as a thing, I mean, if you look at what my company does, which is staking, I think that if can't move to staking quickly enough, right?

So the funeral is trying to defend its market position by moving away from proof of work to proof of stake and, you know, eat 2.0 is doing that. You know, they just had that, that London upgrade. So I don't know what we'll, we'll see what happens hard to. Indeed it is. Uh, so Andrew, for those out there who haven't heard.com, uh, or heard of riot, can you, can you guys hear me?

Am I cutting out? Yeah, you're fine. Okay. No, you're good. Um, so Andrew, so those who haven't heard about tokens.com, uh, could you tell us a little bit about yourself, your background coming from Chile and how you got into crypto? Uh, yeah, so I was important in Chile, but that doesn't have much to do with my crypto, but, um, I tell you the story.

I was, uh, I was an investment banker in Toronto Baca in 2011 for two decades. And I got really interested in crypto back in 20 16, 20 17. And the gap that I found is you have all these people who like to invest via the public markets. So like the Robin hood type people, public market institutions and mutual funds, and they didn't really have a way of investing because the level of sophistication that you guys were just talking about.

Most people don't have that. They don't have the time to do that, or the ability to do it instead. They just want an easy stock that they can by trade. It's easy to account do the taxes for and all that stuff. And so back then, um, there wasn't a lot of ways for public market people to get exposure to Bitcoin.

So myself and some other guys, um, you know, probably heard of a couple of the other guys, um, Mike Novogratz created a company called headache and headache was really a Bitcoin miner. I think it was the first public Bitcoin miner. And the main thing that made it different from all the other mining companies is keep the Bitcoin that you might have as much of it as you can, you know, pay the electricity, do not keep the Bitcoin.

And today, uh, headache has a one and a half billion dollar market cap. And I think outside of like, um, micro strategy, maybe Tesla owns and holds more Bitcoin than any other public company in the world. Like a tremendous amount of that coin. The one thing though, that I started recognizing last year. And it goes back to what you guys are talking about is, you know, you try to take a step back and like, what are the big trends happening in crypto and defy an NFPS?

Here's the problem. You can't process the stuff really on proof of work. Like you see the difficulties that Eve has having with it, which is why they're transitioning and Crusoe state can process a hundred thousand transactions per second. Whereas crypto mining community do about 15. That's a big difference going from one five to a hundred thousand.

And so I decided to make the leap from going from a proof of work company to a proof of state company. Cause I'm like, this is where the future is going. Like nobody builds anything on proof of work anymore. Like when's the last time anybody lodged a blockchain on proof of work like credentials, Salinas, everything is staking now.

So if you look to the future and again, to that thought of how do you give people in the public markets, easy exposure to this, um, We create a tokens.com. So we're a public company and we take our money and we buy tokens and we stake them. So we've got a big positions in each Binance, um, Pocono and Oasis.

And we're also doing some, uh, liquidity, uh, farming, yield farming stuff with the Axion infinity, uh, shards, which you get the access, which you guys are probably familiar with. And I think we may be the only public company in the world that owns that and gives it to investors exposure to that. And so that's what we're trying to do.

Like it's easy to get exposure to Bitcoin. I always find it amazing in Canada. They launched a Bitcoin ETF earlier this year, and Bitcoin's probably the easiest thing for someone to buy yet. The ETF attracted a billion dollars in 24 hours. You know, all of these funds that are out there, the money keeps pouring in, which just leads me to believe that my thesis, which is.

People prefer to have something public that they can buy through Robin hood or their online trader through their broker and have it sit with the rest of them as opposed to going and doing some of the work to figure it out themselves. There you go. So you are basically the micro strategy of defy, uh, giving all these.

So would you say your main audience is retail then? Or would it be, would it be institutional? You know what? It's both. Um, the largest tech mutual fund in Canada called CA signature. They manage billions of dollars. They came to us and said, we really like polka dot, but as a fun, the way we're structured, we're can't we don't have the capability to go out and buy, put it.

This is before dot was trading on Coinbase and it's hard for people to get, but for them, it's also like, we don't know how to get it. We don't know how to secure it. You guys are liquid, you're staking it. You're making a yield off it. And we can have liquidity through you. And so they might ask their compliance department, they said, how much of this company can they buy?

They want to buy as much of this as they could, but, but you're right. That's a good example. We are like the micro strategy of defy. The big difference is I don't think Michael Saylor is making any money off his Bitcoin that he sits on. We are actually so far this year, just on our staking. We're up about a, I think it's close to 25% on our cost basis on just staking rewards.

Now it's not the 3000% that you guys were showing before, but we're a little more conservative in our assets. Look, crypto's volatile, but our assets are up over 70% since the end of Q2. So just for July, August and into September, we're up 70%. So the assets that we use to create revenue are up by 70% and then those assets have created another 24% of new tokens for us.

So I think it's a pretty good business model. You know, we're looking to grow it and definitely there's interest. I always tell people, if you want to get exposure to Bitcoin, there's funds, there's crypto miners. If you want to exchanges that are out there, but if you want to get public market exposure to all points and specifically defy tokens, um, there's not a lot of choices for you.

If you're more like a newbie or you just don't want to go do the work yourself. That's awesome. Let's see, you mentioned that you stake to get extra cryptocurrency in your portfolio, which is obviously a great idea, but do you guys use any other defy applications outside of actually validating that works turn any passive income on your holdings?

Yeah, so we own a bunch of, uh, uh, Bitcoin, um, not, not a huge position, but like a relatively decent position. So we go on like pancake swap and some of those places, and I think we're. At last check, we were running about 14% on it. So that would be more of our active strategy. But generally speaking, our core strategy is buy stake and hold.

And, um, like I said, not a ton of stuff. Like we really like polka dot. I think we miss Solana Solanas are a really good one. You know, all these guys are trying to see you who can replace, you know, Ethan and there's a lot of good contenders that there are. So you guys saw, you were talking about the credential smart contract watch and, um, you know, there's, there's a ton of cool things going on out there.

Um, I don't think anybody knows where things will ultimately resolve, but I can guarantee in 12 months we'll be having some very interesting conversations. I think you're right. Totally. And I see that you guys are also invested into NFT gaming as part of your portfolio. So I saw you guys are, are invested in ACCE infinity and smooth, smooth love potion, which is another token on AXI infinity.

Are you guys involved with the scholarship program at all and XC infinity, like, do you actually take these assets and rent them out to players? Or how do you make the yield on your NFT gaming platform plates? Yeah, so I think right now what we're doing, it's just, we're part of the liquidity pools. Um, so we're sort of trimming it.

Uh, that's what we're doing. So the returns on the S on the smooth love potion, the returns have been exceptional, the yield side, but the performance has not been awesome in the last couple of months. Uh, kind of the reverse on the AXS we're seeing amazing appreciation. I think since we bought it, it's up about 65% or something, but the, the yield on it in terms of the liquidity pools, there's only one.

20 to 23% are still really great. You know, it's funny in this world and having been a bank for a long time, if you were to make like eight to 10% in a year, you'd be like real happy. You'd be like, I just had a great year. I think crypto makes you a little bit nutty in that, you know, you go through like may and June where everything drops by 60, 70% and you got really upset.

And then all of a sudden everything's up and you're, you know, you're always aiming for these big returns, but, but these are good products. And if you look at the big trend of NFTs and defy what's happening, I think, um, it's not just short-term gains. I think there's like real legitimate value here to what's being created in.

Yeah, I mean, making 25% interest, uh, 25% of your return on, on interest alone, uh, must have the traditional financial system quaking in their boots. Um, but I'm curious, what got you into ACCE infinity? Was it the, you know, the big picture NFT, uh, play long-term or was it the staking rewards? Um, what about ACCE specifically?

Got you into it? Yeah, I think, um, it's a good question. We were looking for ways to play the NFT space and what we will never do at tokens at least for now is we'll never going to just buy an NFT parking on our balance sheet and sort of hope that it goes up. Um, we're always looking for assets that we can buy, but a, we look at the trends, like what are the, what are the high level trends happening in crypto?

And then we look at what are the assets that we can buy that will appreciate as a result of those trends. And then the number three criteria is can we use technology to earn revenue. And those are really the three things we're looking for. It has to meet that criteria. So when we looked at what was happening with the Axiom affinity and the excess and that mark Cuban behind it, we just thought that was interesting.

We decided to dip our toe in and get some exposure. We're looking at other cool things. Uh, I'm sure you guys have talked about, but we're looking at, uh, the metaverse maybe picking up some real estate in the metaverse. I think that's going to be the way people are talking about NFTs this year. I think in 12 to 24 months, people are going to be talking about the metaverse in the same way.

Hmm. Interesting. So you're looking at decentral land. Are there any particular metaverse

like, like decentral land is the one that I'm following the most closely, but we're looking at a few of them. The one I'm most familiar with to central land. I think it's super cool that during a COVID they held a music festival. Um, so like you go in there with your avatar and, you know, you buy your ticket and you go into a field and you can listen to like, you know, a pretty cool DJ spinning, spinning.

Um, I just think that the whole idea is pretty wild, but you have, you know, if I'd walk into I'm in Toronto, but if I walk through my city COVID and Amazon have killed the traditional real estate model where, you know, I see all these for lease signs everywhere I walk empty stores. And when I think about the potential here for the metaverse, which is you have a collection of people who are like-minded with their avatars and you're walking around and you have money to spend, um, and the land size is limited, right?

I mean, the central land is what the size of like Washington city or something. It's like, it's limited similar to Bitcoin. There's going to be a scarcity value there. And so owning this land and being able to develop it and create an amazing experience for the users and the people that are walking by. I find a really interesting cross section between real real estate, which is kind of faced.

And kind of where the future of real estate is, which is going to be these, these worlds, where we have all these people with money and looking to spend it. So, Andrew, if you were to get any. Oh, Logan. You mind if I have a follow-up question to this? Uh, we're lagging a little bit. Uh, I'm sorry if I cut you off sometimes Logan.

Um, but Andrew, so if you guys do end up picking up, uh, digital, real estate, stay in decentral and, or the sandbox or whatever, do you guys plan on developing the land and trying to monetize it like you do with your other investments? Or would this be more of a speculative investment for you guys? No, we would want to monetize it.

We same, same thing, buy stuff that we can generate revenue from. So, you know, I know, I think it's in decentral and galaxy digital. Um, there's areas you can walk by and they've partnered with, I think it was candy, but you can walk by and see like a billboard for galaxy digital. Um, there's a lot of value there and that you have what, three and a half million people using the, and right now you can walk by, you can use it as a digital space.

The zoning rules are pretty light. So can I create some kind of gaming, maybe a casino, if you do it again, there's different things you can do to create a user experience there where they they'll want to spend money. But ultimate dream is to create a, a real estate investment trust, like a REIT that pays out a dividend to shareholders, but it's entirely based on digital real estate.

Hm, I think we lost Ryan. Um, but I love the idea of creating a, uh, a metaverse read. I think that has a huge potential. I know, um, I've said this before on the show, but I've, I've heard someone like Gary V mentioning that there could be more jobs in the metaverse than in the real world, uh, looking long-term.

And that just blew my mind. Um, especially with the, with the advent of things like basic attention token, when users are being, uh, finally might be able to be paid for their data paid for their time, online, feeding these huge algorithms. Um, it's going to be crazy to see where the metaverse goes and how much potential value could be unlocked, um, within it.

So I want to toss it to Brian now, uh, for this question, I just highlighted them. So, uh, what made you decide to move from, I heard you were doing a lot of mining and Bitcoin mining and everything like that for mining to doing the tokens.com aspect. Yeah. Two main things that I really hated. So when I was, I was a CEO of a headache, uh, which as I said, it's a great company.

They're one of the largest miners in north America, one of the largest public miners. And what I really hated is, uh, every quarter you have to depreciate the hardware. And so you guys obviously know what would be a minor. You got to order your stuff primarily out of China. And it's got a better four year lifespan.

And that's because as the hash rate keeps moving up, you can only produce so much if it becomes obsolete. Um, so I, it was always having this big depreciation where at the end of the four years, you're your hardware isn't really worth anything. The other thing I hated was I would have at least one call a week from the media or environmentalist.

And they would tell me that Bitcoin was cool, but I was destroying the planet. And so it was kind of a combination of those things that I started looking around and saying, what else is out there? And I came across staking and I think staking was really created to improve upon proof of work. It was created as like, what are the flaws with crypto mining.

And how do you improve them? And staking uses 99.9% less electricity because it's based on ownership, not a massive processing power. So that's a win. And the second one is you can't do BFI really on mining because it's too slow and that's the problem Ethan's having. And that's why they're migrating the staking.

Um, so when you look at sort of like where the puck is going or where the future is that nobody builds anything on crypto mining proof of work technology anymore. It was like, okay, I've built this company. It's doing well, it's positioned to succeed, but I want to build something new here. Whereas I think things are going next.

I got you. That makes sense. Yeah. I definitely agree with that with, um, what do you think about, so the Binance smart chain and E uh, Ethereum going, if you're going to prove a stake and all that other stuff, where do you think all that's going to turn in the next five years? What do you see foresee for the future of everything we've just already talked about.

Yeah. So again, my purely my opinion, I think, outside of Bitcoin, um, in three years, you'll see, look at the top a hundred blockchains and there'll be like out of the top hundred, like 95, and then we'll be all proof of stake. I think, you know, crypto mining is, is, is going to be the way in the past. I think you're going to see a, a split when we started seeing that a little bit this week, but I think Bitcoin Bitcoin is not a defined crypto.

We all, we, we know that and understand that. I mean, there's lightning network. Maybe that could go in and change that. I know that's what they're trying to do over at square Jack Dorsey, but generally speaking, it's probably just going to be like the digital goal. Then it's going to start spending on its own over the last few years, everything sort of hits the same.

Like everything sort of hit all time highs like early may, then everything dropped at the same time. I think what you're going to see happen is there's going to be a split bifurcation between Bitcoin. As a, the G crypto that doesn't do a lot of in store value and it's still great and awesome. But then all of these other things that actually have applications and don't use electricity.

Um, eventually I, you know, I don't think it will happen in the next 24 months, but I do think it'll happen. And within 48 months, I do think equal flip that coin. I agreed. I told Logan before I've told Brian, I think there's probably like a third chance that it flips this market cycle, but of course that's just to be a speculation, but the use cases are definitely there for it.

Yeah. I mean, what is it? 80% of all defy products are in there are still being built on Eve. Despite there being a lot of other good alternatives that people continue to use, you know, Eve and, you know, you can solve the same thing. Remember all those Bitcoin forks, there was Bitcoin light Bitcoin cash, but critical the coin SB, those all were supposed to be improvements on Bitcoin because they would process faster.

The blocks contain more data. There's a whole bunch of stuff. They never took off. And so you might have a similar thing here that as Eve evolves to staking and eat 2.0 that Abel just become more dominant. That's a good point. But even with ease 2.0, transaction fees may be higher than some of these competitors say, like Solano and Binance smart chain.

Of course you're paying that price for the added security and the robust network of Ethereum. But how do you see this playing out with retail investors? Do you think that they'll actually care about decentralization and want to use a network because it is the most secure, or do you think that other projects like salon and Binance smart chain will gain these retail investors who might be priced out of Ethereum?

Uh, I do think that they're going to gain traction. Um, ultimately like when somebody goes to Ave or, or pancake, whoever, I don't know that they actually care who's behind it. I think they're looking at, you know, fees and how they can maximize their, you know, their borrowing lending or trading or whatever it is they're doing.

And, and ultimately. People act in their best economic interests. So as long as it continues to do it does, if it becomes too uneconomical relative to its competitors, we'll lose market share. Um, and I think that's inevitable. So we'll see what happens. It's really hard to predict, like you're saying that this is a real pivotal time, I think in crypto, because you do have all these things that are up and coming this Atlanta as a crutch, nanos, um, all these different things are challenging Eve.

And we'll see in the next six to 12 months, if there actually is adoption into those, um, the way people are expecting and pricing into the tokens. Hmm. So, um, when do you see ETH 2.0, launching? And do you think it's going to affect the proof of stake and everything that we have? Like, do you think it's going to affect all the chains?

You mean? Yeah. Sorry, can you repeat that? We'll never be able to successfully upgrade or launch. So E E 2.0, has already launched and we're staking it right now. We own about, uh, over 2,500 east 2.0 that we're staking and earning. And the, if you, I mean, there's lots of sites you can look that you can look at, but the adoption is, is moving pretty quickly.

I think at the last estimate, I saw that it was probably about another 24 months before the it's kind of a slow progression. It's not going to be, it's not an overnight flip into staking. I think it's, uh, uh, flipping into the evening. The other thing is when you're staking Eve, there's a, like a locked period or a bonding period, which I think this is really interesting and will help appreciate the value within here's why mining, which is predominantly how Ethas is secured right now, how the blocks are valid.

You have to still sell your Eve as a miner to pay for your electricity and your hardware, right? If you use a staking company or is it staking a token, the money stays within the ecosystem. As a Staker. I never have to sell my Eve to pay for stuff in the outside world. I can keep it in there and continue accumulating and compounding it.

And I think that's really smart decision because if you look at what's happening in Bitcoin during the crash, all the miners, the Bitcoin miners were like mining had to meet their costs. They were taking all their selling their Bitcoin as quickly as they could to pay for their costs in staking, the money stays within crypto because you know what, it was a really bad idea that you have to sell your crypto in order to pay for validating it.

This allows it to all stay within the ecosystem, which means less selling pressure. Hopefully. What do you think that means? ETH. What do you think that means for all the ETH quote unquote killers out there that are trying to be a better version of, you know, a POS at theory them? Yeah. I always say P POS tricky, tricky, uh, acronym, but yeah.

Um, I think they all function the same, so they all have different whole periods. So for example, dot is 28 days. Eve is a lot longer, but generally speaking that they're all different, but similar. And so they all keep as, as a staking tokens, they all keep their tokens within their own ecosystem. Um, so I don't know that that, that the staking aspect is really going to be what makes the decisions.

I think it's just going to be the usability, but my perspective is Eve can't move to eat 2.0 quickly enough. Um, because you know, at the very least, you know, right now, Crypto mining as a bottleneck for Eve it's like drinking water through a pinhole. Like it's, it's hard. It slows it down and you get the fees.

Will that change people sort of debate back and forth. But nonetheless, I think it's Eve is going to survive. It has to migrate to stay can quickly. Yeah. And for sure, we'll see, we'll see optimism arbitrary and all these layer twos, uh, kind of help along the way until we can get that, uh, the full sharding and the beacon docking.

Um, so I have a question for you about regulation. How do you think the next few months are going to play out in Canada or, or in the United States? Um, for the crypto markets and, um, could this affect price action? Yeah, it always seems when there's a rumor out there or the sec comes out with something that there is a lot of, um, movement on that, you know, it's a bit of a loaded question.

Like I think the key thing right now, everyone's looking at as this Coinbase sec battle, right. And I always say follow the money. And if you look at, you know, who sort of backs and influences the sec, it's the bank. And so I don't think it's a coincidence that they're like, you're not allowed to lend money.

People are not allowed to make money. What was a 2.8% that they're offering it? Wasn't like, it wasn't anything crazy. It wasn't something crazy. But if you were a bank, this has got to be pretty intimidating. Right. And I know even from our company, you know, sending a wire, if you've ever had to send a wire through a bank, you have to get it there by like three o'clock.

If you don't get it there by three, it's got away the next day and the money disappears for like 24 hours. And then you got to check the Atlanta, not lad. It's a really silly system and they'll charge you like 50 to a hundred bucks per transaction. It's still pretty amazing that with, you know, I know eat the fees can be high, but even with Bitcoin that I can send any amount of Bitcoin almost anywhere in the world, 24 hours a day.

Anytime I want, I can do it within 10 to 20 minutes and it'll cost me like a dollar 50, if I pay for, you know, to prioritize it, right. Like. The banking system. This is why defy in my mind is just going to be the it's a massive game changer and wall street. It is embracing it. And Silicon valley is embracing it.

It's just like the traditional banks that are, I think they're really scared because they can see their business model no longer works. Right. It's like being a taxi driver and trying to fight Uber. Eventually you will lose. Yeah. ACH is a definitely a outdated system and just needs to go away, just cash checking and all that.

So hopefully that. And have you ever tried to send money abroad? I remember I'm from Chile that you guys pointed out. So sometimes I I'll send, I want to send some Viet to like my cousins or something as a gift. Like, you'd go, you've gotta fill out pieces of paper, the switch system, and like, what's that bank's code.

And then it's got to go through a bunch of other banks by the time it gets there, you've lost 10% of your money given all the different fees. And it takes four to six days, right? Like. It's like a, it's like using a buggy and horse, you know, to get around, right. Like it's an old system. And then today, like the technology is here.

I should be able to send money to anybody in the world that I want within 15 minutes and not have to pay more than $5 and lose 10% of what I'm sending. Boom, exactly. I mean, it makes sense today and looking back it's like you said, the horse and buggy is a perfect analogy there. Uh there's really no. Or, and Trish finance certainly should be scared.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and, and proof of work token should be scared too. All the stuff like, I mean, the majority of the proof of work tokens are there, but all these, like the coin forks, like, are, are they going to become a less relevant? I know they use them for some testing, but no one's programming anything on, you know, some of these things that I am aware of it, cause it would be kind of like creating apps where a flip phone, right.

It's like, it's a. Only doge coin right now, but you know, that's part of it, but you're right. You know, all those were created before the proof of stake model came out. So yeah. Uh, Andrew, do you think that we could ever see a proof of stake? Bitcoin? Do you think that that, that network has the ability to make an upgrade of that size?

So I am not the most technical guy. I'll give you my opinion. I put this down on Twitter wines and men like Bitcoin maximalists are so fanatical. They go crazy. Like literally started getting so much hate messages. I do think at some point in four to five years, when the, the energy use and Bitcoin, the hash rate goes up, I think there could be potential consideration and people may hate this.

Maybe there's some kind of a hard fork or something into something that uses less electricity. You're staking similar to what. Um, but I think there's going to be, again, I don't understand that the technicalities behind it, but I'm pretty sure if like the entire Bitcoin ecosystem got together and said, let's form this into something with the same value, but that it has more processing power and uses less energy.

There might be support there isn't today. Um, I think it's like sacrilege and people listening to me would be like, that'll never happen. But I just think that that the hash rate is going to continue to go up. And at some point there'll be more and more prevalent. You know, you got some real fanatical people on the other side of the United States, like Elizabeth Warren who are wanting to shut crypto down.

And so at some point, you know, Bitcoin has an optics problem. It's kind of like a reputation problem. I think they need to figure out something to do as a community beyond just like the Bitcoin council that Michael Saylor started to talk to you on Musk. If the technology is there to use less electricity than they think that the Bitcoin developers and people behind the chip should explore that.

Yeah, well, Bitcoin is certainly not new to having these, uh, uh, you know, public appearance problems. They've been called us all sorts of things since inception. Uh, so hopefully we'll be able to see public embracement long-term uh, I think, uh, as you know, Ryan and my generation continued to grow up in, you know, Weldon become a bigger part of the market than my frozen.

Now you're now you're just rude. Well, our brains are boomer. Geez. Uh, I think our generation is more crypto native, and I think that we'll see this play out pretty well longterm. Uh, and, and I think that you agree, um, by Andrew, thank you so much for coming on and chatting with us today. Uh, it was insightful and we'd love to have you back on in the future before we wrap up, I just want to open the floor up to you to give any shout outs or leave the audience with any final thoughts you have.

Yeah, I would just say if you want that check out tokens.com. Um, we've got some good information on there. I think someone was looking to get exposure to crypto, but didn't want to go through the process of setting stuff up. I think we're a really great alternative for people to consider. We started trading in the U S today under OTC.

Um, and so now we are training in Europe, Canada, and the us. So, um, yeah. Look us up, link in the description below. Go check it out, guys. Andrew, thank you so much for joining us today. Uh, thanks. Alrighty. Uh, Mahesh, let me grab that link for you. It is in the description below it's tokens.com, pretty simple. Um, yeah.

So what did you guys think, uh, of the interview today? What'd you guys think of tokens.com? I think there's definitely, I mean, there's clearly, there's clearly a need for it. There's clearly a demand for it. Lots of people don't want to go through the hassle hassle of custody and their own crypto, uh, and you know, trying to figure out how to earn interest on all these different platforms, how to stake on these different networks.

How many wallets do you have to keep track of? Um, I, I think it's a good product and clearly it's been very successful. I like it better than. Um, and they have the huge markup. I don't like that. You think that millennials aren't ready for crypto and it's only gen Z, but we can talk about that later. Uh, go back to eating your Abacus benefits or money on avocado toast.

How are they supposed to buy Bitcoin? And you guys weren't even born when Bitcoin was around. Yeah, you're right. That's a good one. Now you got me there. I wasn't born until last week, so geez. I'm pretty new to this whole thing. G jeez, Ryan. All right. You want to do well a Mooner bus today. We have about 60 seconds left.

Uh, I saw someone talking about VJ in earlier and maybe we could talk about that. We tasers and we, we, we talked about V train a couple of times, but I don't think we've talked about taser at all. Maybe we should talk about tasers. They've been popping off lately. A lot of these, uh, different, these other projects that like kind of got left behind from Ethereum blowing up and buying it, smart chain, blown up and everything like that.

There's some pretty cool things that are going to happen. And I think a lot of people believe that, you know, it's only going to be Bitcoin. It's only gonna be a theory. Um, but there's so much, there's a lot of people in the world. There's a lot of time, there's a lot of people into different things. So I think there's room more than enough room for everybody to get a piece of.

Guys my, my, uh, birth certificate exists on chain only. I am an on chain asset in case we were wondering I was minted, not born. Uh, okay. So here we go. Here stays as a yellow, too funny. Um, here's tasers, let's pull up the seven day. The one month is certainly on a tear. Let's see how it's been doing since the beginning of the year.

Ooh. It looks like we're in price discovery mode. This might be a good time to pick some up. Um, tasteless is another smart contract blockchain. Um, it's not talked about a whole lot, but it is in the top 30, a market cap of $6.6 billion. Um, do you guys hold any tasers? What do you think about it? I, I don't hold any, but I do like it, um, in the sense that I, I, like I just said, I think there's room for a lot of these others to grow and to get to the potential, you know, really big returns down like.

I don't hold any taser though. So it's definitely an interesting project. And at $6.6 billion market cap, you could see a 10 X by the end of the market cycle, in my opinion, that would bring it to $66 billion market cap, very expensive, but still quite a bit less than Cardona. And I do think Tesaro's has smart contracts on it.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe they do. Um, and yeah, so it looks like they're, they're one of their defining features is the ability to upgrade without a hard fork. Um, I don't know if this is necessarily a good thing. I've heard metallic make the argument that that hard forks are actually more inclusive, um, because you're not forced to adopt the upgrade.

Like you are in a soft. Uh, you can choose to take the other path, but, um, I'm sure that they have learned from all these years of blockchains and forks and they're doing something pretty cool. I'm going to have to, uh, dig in while I hold a little bit of taser. So I really just picked it up because I heard people talking about it.

Um, but this was like a long time ago. I really haven't been active in the ecosystem since then, but it's up 18% today, so that's pretty cool. Um, I'm gonna give this one a moon. What do you guys think? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's one of those quote unquote old school and I used that in crypto, in crypto, uh, years, but it, it, yeah, I like it.

It has a lot of room. It's just like up there with the other ones we were talking about today. There's definitely potential and there's no reason why it would fail. I think it would. I'll give it its third moon too. I mean, obviously this asset sector is hot right now. Proof of stakes, smart contract blockchain.

That's where all the hype is right now. We've seen it with Cardona. We've seen it with all the other blockchains out there, polka dots, Ilana. So I wouldn't be surprised if we see a much higher present tasers. So yes, I give it a moon. Awesome. And you guys can pick this up on coin. It's a crack in, I think we got some links in the description down below.

If you want a little sign up bonus, if you're making a new account, go check those out. Um, but I'll stop with the promos. Silly me. Um, okay, so killing me, loading Ross. So this whole thing is just a sponsored, sponsored advertisements. Uh, okay. That's enough. Um, speaking of, well, we have replacement. Follow me on Twitter.

Check it out. That's all I got. Check us all out on Twitter. We'll give you some dope. Uh, and speaking of checking other things out, state tune to Benzing as YouTube channel, we got more great content coming up for you today. We got pre-market prep at the close. Uh, I'm not sure if that's the next show. If we got trivia beforehand, but whatever it is, stay tuned.

You don't want to miss it. It will redirect you automatically. So don't go anywhere. Don't touch anything. The Touche par thank you. This has been wound or bust your home for all things. All coins and defy. We will see you on Wednesday with another sick interview. We have the Salada Phantom wallet. You don't want to miss it.

You guys got anything else? Any closing remarks for us? Not yet too many Twitter followers lately. Guys, I've been really sad about it, but a little depressed. Haven't been able to get out of bed every day. Really. So if you can just, um, attitude that they have the Z attitude, but yeah, I've been really sad about it guys.

So cheer me up, please follow me on Twitter. Alright. On that note, we'll see you Wednesday. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations)Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands)Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy)