Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Market Update
Uniswap SEC Trouble
BitBoy Interview
Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Guests:

Ben Armstrong (Bitboy Crypto)

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:
Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News Here
Get Moon or Bust Crypto Merch Here
Join the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.
Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Meet The Hosts:

Brian Moir

Solidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012

https://twitter.com/moirbrian

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Unedited Transcript

What's up zinger nation. Welcome back to moon or bust your home for all things. All coins and defy. Today, we have a sick episode coming at you. I'm going to bring on my co-hosts. Now we have the defy developer himself. Brian Moore. How are you doing today, Brian? Doing all right. My back is killing me, but I'm happy to be.

Great man. I'm actually having some audio issues right now. I can't hear y'all, but I'm just going to roll with the punches. We also have Ryan exit liquidity, McNamara. How are you, Ryan? I, I'm not gonna be able to hear you. Let me try to figure this out. Uh, y'all do me a favor. You hear me out about the markets real quick?

I can hear you just fine, Brian. I'm doing well. I would ask Logan how he's doing. Cause I know he loves to be asked that, but he cannot hear us. Yeah. But yeah, let's get straight into the market update. We got some news for you guys and then we'll be interviewing bit boy crypto. So definitely stay tuned for that.

You know, the markets have been going crazy. I would be saying, you know, it's a great day. I love my life. But you know, a couple days ago I did buy that did buy that year. It's gone down. I told you guys like, keep you up. Price wars around five Eve. Now I got it for seven. So, you know, I'm going to hold it. I think it's a blue chip NFTE.

I think it'll go up. Uh, once eats starts slowing down. I think a lot of people just want to be in Ethereum right now while the prices are ripping. So, I mean, it is what it is. I wish I had a little bit more ether. That's seven ethic is goodbye for that. You know, I kind of wish I kinda wish I held it for this run-up but there's not much you can do.

And I think the price floor is holding pretty strong, right around five. That is if he doesn't keep ripping, I mean, we're at $4,000 right now, per Ethereum. Just about all time highs. $4,300 to $4,400. So we're getting really close to new all time high, which in my opinion, that's pretty surprising because I mean, Bitcoins right around $50,000.

So, I mean, we're still about 25% of the way to a new Bitcoin all-time high yet. We're only about five to 10% away to a new Ethereum all time high. So we see a theorem leading the markets yet. Again, Brian, you have any hot takes with Ethereum and Bitcoin right now. Well, I want to start off saying that I think you'll be just fine with your ape.

I think that it was still a good buy at a good purchase rather. And, um, you'll, you'll make a good return. It it's a solid staple now. The future generation of NFTs. I mean, it was crypto punks. Now as 40 now you've got the mutant, you're a part of that ecosystem. I think it'll be great for Ethereum. I am super excited to pass 4k and hold.

It looks like it got, um, held back after at the 4k mark. It didn't quite make it, it did make it pass it then got rejected pretty quickly. Uh, BTC is holding up above 50 K, which. That's always exciting. That's a great thing. Again, time after time, we're calling these shots. We're calling these prices us three, just.

It doesn't matter. We're right. That's just how it works. You guys got to stay tuned in. We've been making really good calls lately. We'll see where it goes. You know, minus my NFT, we've been making some good calls. I have a new call to make. I think we will be seeing a $57,000 Bitcoin within the next week.

So you heard it here first? I think we're going to 57. I like it. I accept 4k. You know, Bitcoin is now following Ethereum. That's just the way it goes in 2021 theory is no longer all coin. And I, for 1:00 AM excited to see a theorem flipping a coin, this markets. Oh shit. So you changed your life all summer long and you said, no, it's not going to happen.

Why didn't you change your mind, Ryan? I said, there's probably like a third chance that it happens. So I still think that, you know, it's a possibility, it's definitely not inevitable at this point. Why people still don't even know what Ethereum is? I think Bitcoin has a lot of buying pressure when it comes to institutions getting in on Bitcoin.

So it's definitely going to be a big battle for Ethereum to flip Bitcoin, but I'd say it's probably 50% chance at this point, this market cycle, I think. I don't know about more likely than not, but there's definitely a good chance at this point. I think so, too. I agree with that. I think 57 is a little high, but I like the 55 range.

I think within the next week, two weeks, we're going to see 55. Um, I think we're going to see a theorem push the 4,200 mark and Bitcoin, the 55 57 mark. And I think that's when we're going to go a little bit more sideways for. Or we're going to rip to all new highs everywhere around, I mean, sonar, he mentioned Solana is ripping.

Yeah. That's that's my boy that, uh, what I say is so long ago, mez, that's my girl. It's going to just keep on popping. It's going to keep on rolling. I'm all about it. I like it more than a Binance smart chain at the moment because of the potential. Uh, that it has, so crypto is looking good right now. We didn't even see Solana flip doge this morning.

That was pretty cool. Smart contracts or something. That's crazy. Solana has smart contracts on it, so you don't even have to wait if you're in Cardona and you're waiting. Why, why, wait, why wait so long has that. So we're at $95 billion market capitalization for car Dano, and we're at a $41 billion market capitalization for Solano.

So, I mean, we could see if, if Ana can compete with Dano and, and come to a similar market cap. I mean, we could see Solano around $250. I would not be surprised if we got to that range within the next few months with you guys. Oh, I think it's definitely possible. Especially with the, with the SPF backing.

FTX is just pumping Salana, they're going to get more integrated into all these different things. We're going to see some cross chain action going on, connecting to a theory, and then a bunch of people are going to be bridging over. Um, just for those low gas fees. What about the Solana NFTs? Do you guys think that, that those have had an impact on Solano?

Oh, absolutely. That that's, that's what started the whole rip and Roran that, uh, the DJ and apes, they that's what, put it off the map and now everyone's going, this will actually work. It's not just some random half chain and also a Axiom infinity is now I'm buying it smart chain, which is pretty cool too.

I think we'll, we'll take, uh, I think probably not Monday because we're not having an episode, but. Episode, we might get into that a little bit, cause that's kind of big news, but, um, NFTs are changing the game again, but even more than they were, you know, back in January or February. So that's really cool.

Alrighty. Uh, so I see bit boy just popped in backstage. I'm going to get the interview started right now. I'll pull my screen up and I'm going to bring Ben on. Hey Ben, how's it going? Pretty good. It's good to encrypt them. Yeah. Yes it is. Hey, I loved your keynote at the Benzinga crypto festival this week.

Thanks for stopping by and thanks for coming on Muna bust as well. I love it, man. I liked the name. Appreciate it. So before we get into crypto, I want to talk cars a little bit. I know you have a health. Uh, it is the Lambo coming soon. Yeah. So, well, technically I don't have a helicopter got a demon, so no, I did.

I did have a Hellcat. I had a 20, 21 Hellcat redeye and, um, it actually got stolen at the airport back in April when I went on a trip to Florida. So learning the lesson don't don't drive that thing to the airport and I bought the demon. So it's 2018. It had 15 miles on it when I bought it. So it's more car is actually faster than the Lambo.

Uh, the Lamborghini is a, um, it's the STO. So it's the STO it's the best one. Thing's amazing. The STO is so cool. So I basically had to go through, uh, a dealer in, uh, in Florida in Jacksonville. And the GM there had one personally built and he's going to sell me that one. They got, they got an incentive thing or to get all the incentives as a dealer, they have to wait three months to sell it.

So it's already in, I'm just waiting until that three month date, which will actually be right around my birthday near the end of October. And a nice little birthday present is black interiors, black and yellow. And we'll put some yellow accents, you know, kind of some wraps on the outside to highlight the curves.

I'm super stoked. I mean, that's going to land, but what, what is there after that you're done. That's it? That's it. That's the goal though? Investors? Uh, well, you know, we haven't paid for it yet. I mean, we're going to pay for it, you know, um, all at one time. So we're definitely going to ask if they'll take crypto, uh, but we'll have some money moved over just in case it's 450 K so it's uh, it's it's uh, yeah.

That's awesome. Congratulations. Yeah. Congrats. That's that's thing. Uh, okay. So, uh, if there's anyone out there who hasn't seen your channel before, uh, could you talk to us about what got you into crypto and then what made you want it to start making it YouTube content? Yeah. Sure. So if anybody watch my keynote with the Benzinga crypto conferences the other day, I told the story about how I got into crypto.

Just a quick summary is I got into Bitcoin in 2012. It was 12 bucks. First time I bought 1196, somewhere around there. And, uh, you know, To pay for a service. I was paying for a software that I was using it wasn't Silkroad related. A lot of people.

I know you probably spent 30 Bitcoin on some mushrooms. No, that didn't happen. So. Uh, no, I use it to buy it, to pay for a software. And, you know, I sold it all in 2013. Uh, what I had my account, it was a few thousand dollars. And to my family on a little vacation, we went down to the beach and, uh, paid off a couple of bills.

And I thought that was it. Then in 2014, Mt. Gox got hacked. And I thought that was the end of crypto. So I bought and sold a little bit in between 2014, 2017, but, uh, 2017 was when. I was just sick. Like I was looking at the price going up and I kept calculating how much money I had. Cause I had spent over 2000.

Uh, on Bitcoin in between about 10 and 60 bucks. And so, you know, thinking about how rich I should have been, and I was there like struggling to pay bills and, you know, you know, by Christmas kids or a Christmas present for the kids and stuff. And I was just like, man, I really missed out on this opportunity.

I wonder if there's any way I can salvage it. And so I decided to go all in on crypto because I really believed in, I love decentralization. Uh, I hate, you know, the tech autocracy that we have to live with that tells us what to do and runs our government really these days. And so the idea of crypto really reverberated with me.

And so in 2018, I decided to start a YouTube channel. It was going to be a cartoon as were bit boy came from. And, uh, over time, like, it just wasn't a time where people wanted to have fun content because it was a bear market. And so my, all my friends, he encouraged me like, Hey, start news videos. We will care what you have to think.

You know, you've got a good way of communicating. So started the channel over about two years, nobody watched. And then all of a sudden, uh, you know, starting in January of 2020 and things really started blowing up. And, uh, you know, now we've got the biggest. And all crypto. No, that's awesome. Congratulations.

Yeah, very cool. So you've been in cryptocurrency for quite a while. I know Brian, he got some Bitcoin back in 2012 or 2013. So he feels, he feels your pain there, you know, getting in at such a cheap price, you know, if you would have only simply held, but I mean, that's what it is. Yeah. I mean, that's cryptocurrency for you though.

And then you go down the rabbit hole, you learn so much, and there's so many different projects out there. So I'm interested in knowing what are some of your all time favorite cryptocurrency projects. And also, did you ever have. Favorite cryptocurrency projects, you were really bullish on, say maybe back in 20 17, 20 18 during the ICO craze, I actually went.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I got, I got a good one there. Um, I'll start there and then I'll go with, uh, you know, my, my all time favorites, uh, the one that went bust was called spective. It was S P E C T I V. And the idea of it, uh, or the ticker symbol was SIG. And the idea of it was awesome. Uh, and this is what we see with a lot of these ICO's and when Boston's, the ideas are great, similarly to like, during the, uh, Dot com bubble the.com boom, like pets.com was a great idea.

It was just 20 years too early. I mean, you look now there's what, what is the one now art box, like that's basically pest.com, you know? And so it was just, the idea was too early. And so this was a, what we are seeing now with Oculus and what we're seeing now with a Sikh VR, some of these virtual reality projects, it was just ahead of its time.

It was a virtual. Uh, platform where you could go to sports, different sporting events. Now this was before the pandemic. So we didn't know, you know, this, this would be a thing down the road, you know, that was super relevant, but you go to concerts, go to sporting events. You could go to theme parks and ride roller coasters in virtual reality.

And I just thought, man, this is such a great idea. I think this is going to be huge. And this project doesn't even exist anymore. You know, that was one in, I lost a lot of money on that one. Um, at the time, you know, it was a large part of my portfolio. I was like, this is a coin of going all in on. Uh, and so I put a bunch of money into it and then it went to literally zero.

Uh, it's not even around anymore. They do no development on it. So, uh, that's when. My friend, who was the person who encouraged me to do the news videos early on, like, that's the big joke between us always, you know, we still talk about SIG. Like that was the one we spent hours trying to learn how to use a decentralized exchange to get it to, you know, six hours.

I can never get back, but because that's how long it took back in the early days to use a deck, trying to figure it out, it took me six hours to make it. It was extremely complicated. I mean, I had every, you know, tab known demand open on my Chrome browser was trying to figure out how to do it. Uh, but as far as favorite projects, um, you know, I mean, obviously, uh, Ethereum is, is probably my all time favorite project.

I mean, I absolutely love. The decentralized internet. Um, I know now we've got web three and we've got other projects, you know, polka dot. They were working on similar stuff. But I mean, the theory is really the one that started this movement and I'm just not a fan of the few making decisions for everybody.

And I hate that. I go totally against that in every regard. And so because of that, I love a decentralized internet and I think he can actually, this is somebody I say a pretty good bit is that, you know, people always love to say. Crypto in blockchain, it's in the wild west, right? You guys heard people. Oh, yeah.

All the time. That's a lie. The internet is still in the wild west. And so de-centralization and blockchain has a way to actually stabilize a lot of the deepest and darkest and worst parts of internet technology and the way it can be used. I mean, I always like to use the example of, you know, we should not be living in a world where an eight year old can grab his mom's phone and pull up hardcore pornography and.

Like one minute seems like a pretty big, pretty big gap there between what we should have. And then what's reality now for it's consenting adults, whatever they want to do, but children shouldn't be able to do that. And yet they can do that all the time. It's a big problem in schools and, you know, I could go on and on about it.

That's a big flaw with the internet right now and blockchain through identity verification. I think one day, you know, you're going to have your phone tied to your identity. We know Google has the ability to censor images that go on the search results. So we know phones have that ability too. So. You know, person to person, you know, a 14 year-old, can't be sending a, you know, a 14 year old pictures on their phone and stuff like that, their identity who he tied to, they just couldn't see it.

Um, the phone would not allow it. So that's just one example of something I think is a really big flaw in the interview. The blockchain can solve very easily. And then we've got tons of other problems out there from identity fraud to, um, you know, credit card fraud. So many things that can be tied in a better way to our digital identities, which Cardona, you know, might play a role in is they're working on a lot of that stuff, trying to win a contract with the European union.

Um, but you know, back to back to a theory, I think it can solve through smart contracts. Basically every major problem we have on the. It's got the biggest developer in community. I made a lot of money on it theories over the years, we were telling people to buy it when it was under a hundred dollars. Uh, people that listen, they're doing very well right now, people that didn't listen, you know, they continue to kick themselves.

And hopefully at some point they got in, uh, Cardona is also a project that I do love Ethereum competitor, but, um, you know, some of my favorite projects, uh, you know, just to kind of list a few outside of Ethereum, uh, Cardona. Polygon car Tessy V chain. Uh, you know, chain-link, these are my favorite. Yeah, you pretty much all mine.

You should tell Ryan Cardona one more time. Let's see. Yeah, let's dig into that for a second. Um, so Ryan, you aren't bullish on Cardona as much as some of the rest of us are. Uh, maybe you could explain why. Yeah. First, I'd like to clear this up. I am bullish on Cardona. I think we'll probably see between eight to $12 by the end of this market cycle for Cartano.

So I think there's really good returns to be made, but I like to invest in more so in the community and the ecosystem. I know Cartano has a great community around it, but they don't really have much of an ecosystem going on because they don't have smart contracts released yet. Um, so I like to see the adoption.

I like to see the value locked say on Solano with the serum decks, for example, has over a billion dollars now. And it's about half the market cap of Cartano. Um, Ethereum obviously has like over a hundred billion dollars locked at this point within its ecosystem and the most users by far. So, I mean, there there's pros and cons to all of this stuff, but I think that Cardinal is promising.

And hopefully they deliver, but we haven't seen too much beetle delivered yet. So, I mean, maybe I'll get more bullish on Cardona once those smart contracts are released. And I see how that ecosystem develops because yeah, it sounds great on paper, but until we actually see it play out, I'm personally not in.

Yeah. I think the Cardona has a lot of big followers, especially because of Charles Hoskinson his presence. Um, but Ben, I'm curious to hear what your take is, why you're so bullish on Cardona over something like Salana that already has the ecosystem going for it. Yeah. Well, I would say Solana is all scammy, but that's, that's, that's a whole different, that's a whole different story.

Now. We love salon as a project. We love the serum decks. We think, oh, I've been bullish on Selana for ever, but a digital currency group who runs all our crypto in roundabout ways has, uh, has their hooks in that thing. Very solid. And look, if you think that the Solano pump we've had this week is based upon its growing ecosystem, that I've got a, a bridge to know why is it pumping?

Because just last week it was reported that the number one coin institutional money was, was going into. Was Salada number two was Cardona. Number three was a theory for the first time ever. Solano was number one. And right after we get this news, it pumps like 70% big shocker. The big money drives the entire ecosystem in the markets.

And that's what we saw. It has nothing to do with their growing ecosystem, Ricard Dano with their ecosystem. Like I love to talk about like, uh, w when it comes to debates I have with. It's always like to have timelines, you know, like, you know, people will talk about, you know, Bitcoin having a lengthening cycle, like, okay, when's the date when we can say that that is or is not true.

I like to have things that we can look at. Okay, you're right. I was wrong or vice versa. This is one of those things with Cardona, like great. You have nine days left to make that argument. You got nine days left to make the argument that they have no ecosystem. Right after that nine days, you're going to see car Dano is going.

Fastest most explosive growing ecosystem we have ever seen in crypto, and it's not even going to be close. So two months from now, its ecosystem is going to be probably five times bigger than Solanas. That's probably not an exaggeration. If you look at all of the projects that are lined up to launch, Ancar donno, it blows salon is a way now, as long as growing, it's doing.

But two months from now, you're just not gonna be able to make that argument. And the thing that I don't like about the Cartano haters is they, and, and really what I don't like about haters in any realm of the world is they're just constantly moving the goalposts. You know, at first it was like, well, they don't even have anything.

So then they get all their code together and they're like, okay, well now they don't have a main net. They're not even watching it. And they launch their main net. Then they're like, well, the roadmap is usually they're never getting more contracts. Well, here come the smart contracts, like every piece of the, of the way it's been criticized.

But at some point, that decision point is going to be now and all of those arguments are going to be invalid. And so that's coming very soon. I love Charles Hoskins and he's one of what I believe to be the few authors. One of the few authentic people in crypto, I don't believe anything that comes out of the mouths of anybody from grayscale.

Reading like Coinbase or anybody from CoinDesk or coin tell a lie. I don't believe any of those people. Charles Hopkins, Johns Hopkins, somebody that you can actually listen to and he may, he may be wrong about something. He actually believes what he says, you know, Eric Vorhees, Alex Mashinsky, these are other people I put in that same category.

So, um, I definitely believe that, uh, Coronado is going to be everything they say it's going to be, and it's got 71% of the total supply locked up in nodes. So from a price perspective, it's already going to crush it. So, you know, I'm just waiting for the ecosystem to match the hype and it is going to have.

The fact is there is no real relationship. Just like I told you a Solana, there's no relationship between the price of a project and the fundamentals and its use case. There's just no connection, especially at this point in a bull market. So Ricardo, there's no connection between the speculation and what they actually have already.

Uh, but when they launch a smart contracts that should strengthen the speculation, but it will be many, many years before we actually see a connection between successful projects in. Awesome. So, uh, you mentioned something earlier about lengthening cycles. I think that'd be a great segue into our next question.

Um, so you say that the, the bull run is going to end by this year, correct? But yeah, this month, by the end of this year, by this month, really? Yeah. So September 28th is a date that I've said, uh, for about a year and a half, almost two years. Now, there there's a lot of evidence to base that off of now. The individual date is not important.

I'm not Nostradamus or a bit moisture. Like I don't have the exact date. The thing that's more important to understand. That's a marker. That is a marker for approximately when the bull run from. Bitcoin should end it's based on something called the golden bull ratio. When you look back at the history of the Bitcoin cycles, they're evenly matched between the first half of the cycle before the happening and the second half after the happening or the having.

So we know generally when this should end, now, I've always said, give or take. Now starting to think maybe two weeks we could go into the middle of October, possibly around the Fort, you know, somewhere between the 12th and the 15th, but that's me just trying to pad just in case I I'm I'm wrong. I still think it's going to be by the first week of October, it's going to be over.

We're going to see explosive movement for Bitcoin, uh, over this month. And then next month, this thing is going to die down. However, all coins are going to run for considerably longer. Uh, I've always said between Halloween. Uh, but I do believe that because we only have one, all coins cycle to base that on.

Uh, we have four Bitcoin cycles. We've got one all coin cycle. So because of that, it could be longer. It could be shorter, but I would definitely lean towards a longer all coin season. Uh, I've always said Thanksgiving should wrap it up, uh, but could possibly go, you know, to, to Christmas, somebody says I make all my predictions based on whole.

Well, they're good. It's a good time to Fiji to make sure you see what, what timeframe you're looking at. Cause you know, Christmas, Halloween for the July, all that stuff, you can break it up pretty easily. I get that. Exactly. So are you surprised that Eve is leading the way right now? Um, and then also, what do you expect BTC to be around during that peak?

Okay. So I do not find it surprising that Ethereum is leading the way I have a theory. I'm definitely EIB 1559 is what kicked us off. And we knew EIP 1559 was going to have some significant price action on Bitcoin. It's not a buy the rumor, sell the news event, kind of like the, the salon of hackathon, which is all a joke.

Um, But, you know, this is actually a fundamental thing that affects the price because it makes a theory of deflationary instead of inflationary. And now it's looking like, you know, recently more deflationary than even Bitcoin. So, um, it was just supposed to make it less inflationary, but. Regardless. It is moving maybe to deeply coronary.

So that's a fundamental effect, you know, supply and demand that does compound into factoring into the price. Um, so it, it doesn't surprise me though. If someone asked me, uh, last week, they said, you know, what's going to hit an all time high, first Bitcoin or Ethereum. And I said a theorem and it looks like that could be true.

I don't have. Let me pull up the chart right now and take a quick, pull up the price. Yeah, there he is. At 39 63. It's just been hovering right around 4k. So I mean, we are less than 400 bucks away from an all-time high for it. So I can't imagine Bitcoin pumping. You know, $14,000 from here and a theory I'm not taking up 400, so Miriam is going to hit all time highs first.

Uh, I've always said that, you know, the, one of the markers for this bull run is going to keep referring back to predictions I made years ago, uh, two years ago. And the reason for that is pretty simple as now that we're very close to all of these timelines that I've talked about for a long time. It's more to be able to watch and understand I'm not making these predictions based on last week.

Like these are all numbers and dates I've had in mind for. So when it comes to, to, um, you know, Bitcoin and Ethereum specifically, um, I've always said that one of the markers of this bull run would be by the end of it, uh, theorem will be a household name by the end of 2017. Bitcoin was a household name didn't mean everybody was in bed.

But during that peak, everybody knew what Bitcoin was. They could tell you it was digital money. They may not have bought it, but they knew a friend who did, or they saw something on CNBC. They knew what Bitcoin was a very loose sense. By the end of this bull run, a barium will do the same thing. So it's always outperformed.

Ever since it was around no reason to think that that's going to, you know, not continue. So, you know, it is the returns or Bitcoin gets smaller and smaller over these cycles. That only makes sense that people would shift more towards a theory. So as far as top price for Bitcoin, um, my original price, when we were looking at, uh, Uh, super explosive bull run was around the stock and flow number.

Um, the number was $289,000 to start to flow commodities chart that that is applied to Bitcoin. I thought we'd see a $300,000 Bitcoin, but unfortunately we saw a lot of manipulation from the institutions as we always see. It chopped out the remote side of this bull run. So that means that we are no longer looking at a two, three, $400,000 Bitcoin.

Like a lot of people believe you can't just chop three months out and get to the same price. So in my opinion, a hundred to $120,000 will be the absolute tops for this book. And the craziest most wild, you know, moonish prediction I can make, I could think of maybe it runs to 150 to 160 K, but I don't see that happening.

I definitely think somewhere I'm looking specifically about $110,000, uh, to be the top right there between a hundred K and 120, it will hit a hundred K this year though. And it's going to happen fast. This is all going to happen. So, what do you think about, uh, like, um, are you familiar with Benjamin Cohen?

His lengthening cycles? I like him. I met him on the show. You know, people think I don't like him cause I always talk about his cycles, but he's got, he's got a lot of influence out there and I just, I just happen to think he dropped. Yeah. Yeah, no, for sure. It's, it's re I mean, no one knows. Right. We'll have to wait and see.

Um,

I mean, if you have more thoughts on, on, uh, like your case against the lengthening cycles, I'd be curious to hear. Sure. Yeah. So, you know, I've never believed in lengthening, sorry. It may be a week longer, but, but basically his premise is it's going to be many months longer. A lot of people believe that we're going to be peeking out in, uh, 2022.

And that's simply just not going to happen. There. There's a lot of reasons for that. There's a lot of technical reasons or a lot of fundamental reasons. And more importantly, there's a lot of manipulation reasons, uh, that we're not going to see that, uh, the big talking point from the government lately has been inflation.

When have you ever heard the governor? Warning people about inflation. That that doesn't make sense. Right? So you got to wonder what's really going on in the fall. Maybe late fall, we are going to be moving from inflation to deflation. I understand it defies logic. It defies logic. We see all the money printing.

We saw the stimulus, but now you look at Wells Fargo cutting personal credit accounts also. Corporate credit accounts, but knows when this happened to why would they be doing that? They're trying to hold on to more of their own money. We have the eviction moratorium that was, uh, you know, tried to be extended at all costs.

They say, of course it for political reasons, uh, the administration wanted to make it look like they were trying to put that in place for votes, but that's over, which means you're no longer protected from eviction. If you can't pay your rent, which means you actually have to pay your rent. Most of the people by.

That that, that, uh, we're granted that more. Could work. Cause we know only 50% of jobs in America were shut down on average, 30% of all jobs in America during the deepest part of the pandemic were still considered to be essential. Okay. So the point here is this is that there's a lot of free money. That is stopping.

Why is the government stopping the free money train? Well, that would be because the government itself is also trying to hold onto their money. We're looking at bond yield tapering, which is the key to this whole thing that will be happening probably sometime in November, between October and November, that is going to have a big impact on the economy.

And it has a big effect on the stock market. We are going to look at stocks going down at the end of this year, the stock bull run will be over by the. Uh, so not only are we looking at crypto now talking about stocks going down, but the entire economy is going to take a big hit. At first. It's going to seem very positive though, because what happens is, is that, uh, places have to stop when the dollar becomes more valuable.

That means that companies or retailers, they drop prices on stuff. But when they do that, they're making less money, which eventually leads to job cuts and people getting laid off right now. Anybody who wants a job can go. By next year, that will no longer be the case. So because that inflation is kicking in, in the fall, it lines perfectly with every timeline that I put together.

And so I can't believe that there is going to be a lengthening cycle. Cash will be king come late, come winter hash will be king. Once again, I know that is antithetical to every crypto argument that we've been making for years, but the government's about pull the rug out from under us. And I believe that part of this is going to be USDA.

Playing a role as the digital dollar, meaning there will be more demand or it, when you move to a digital dollar, you take away the, uh, the, the geographical borders around being able to get access to your money. That's going to create a higher demand across the world for the U S dollar. Uh, and I think that that's going to ha also have a, a big impact on the inflation.

We're seeing the dollar index rising as we speak. So th there are a lot of factors in my opinion, that point towards. Deflation black Swan event coming in the fall or in December. So sometime in between October and December, and Bitcoin is not going to thrive this time. And this is good for Bitcoin. It's great for Bitcoin that this is going to come at the exact end of what should be the bull run.

Imagine if this has ha had happened three months. There would be no more bull run. So it's really advantageous. That's why my channel, we really preach to people. You know, you sell either bottoms. That's how you change your life. Got you, man. That was a whole lot to take in. I didn't even, I never thought of it that way.

That's such a, like a really creative way to think about it because I think you're absolutely right. That never really crossed my mind how. It being in a bearish or even a downturn cycle is actually a good thing, but then also a larger scale economy, bad thing, but then can be transformed into progress and, you know, some really major gains in the future and kind of get us up this rut we're in because of COVID all that other stuff.

That's. Thank you. That's crazy. That's a great way to look at it. One thing I wanted to ask is, so what do you think that this whole mindset on a Bitcoin versus Ethereum and pretty much everything you just kind of went through, do you think that might turn people into more of the. All coin or Ethereum maxi over the Bitcoin maxi because Bitcoin is kind of becoming a little bit more, not outdated, but just the use case isn't as there as it used to be.

And now it's just people who really, really like it. People want to be about it and big institutions and PR quote, unquote, old money now getting into crypto, you know, 10 years too late, but they're back into, do you think we're going to see more switch into besides gray scale and all those switch into theory them and you know, some more.

Yeah. So, I mean, technically there's no those standards in all queen maximalist, you know, there's no there's things in there, maximums, but I like to call myself in a theory. Maximalist is a joke patrol the Bitcoin Maxis, but, um, yeah, I can't stand Bitcoin maximalist. I think they are the most toxic people in all of crypto.

Um, they have become the very thing that the. Out to fight in the beginning, which is just the deepest irony of all, you know, like trying to control us. Like you can't invest in that coin. Like trying to tell me what to do with my money. A lot of these guys, they just got rich early max Kaiser. Um, you know, a lot of the guys that wrote all, uh, you know, a lot of the books to do the Bitcoin podcast, Meadowdale, peanut recording.

These guys got rich early well, Peter McCormick didn't, but a lot of these other guys that got rich early off Bitcoin, and they just have held onto this. And they won't let go of it wine. It made them all their money. It's the same exact reason. Warren buffet doesn't invest in a blockchain's exactly why Amazon had to wait until Jeff Bezos moved on from CEO to get interested in crypto.

Jeff Bates has made all of his money in the traditional system. We're above it made all his, my in the traditional system. Jamie diamond made all of his money in the traditional system. Why do these guys want crypto? They don't. And it's the same thing with the Maxis. They made all their money. Why do they want all coins to do well?

Uh, but it's very apparent to me. Ethereum is going to patch, I believe a hundred percent. The theory of will pass Bitcoin permanently in the next five years. Um, I think this year it's got a good chance to touch it and then retrace, uh, maybe pass it by a few million dollars or a billion dollars and then go back down.

Um, I don't think it will permanently pass it this cycle, but I think it's got a great chance to pass it. At least for a moment, get rejected then in four to five. Has it permanently a theorem is such a bigger opportunity than Bitcoin. It's hard to even put it into words. Uh, Ralph Powell was actually on my show this week and he said, he believes that the future is a $200 trillion market cap for all of crypto.

The vast majority of that is not going to be in Bitcoin. I can't see Bitcoin ever achieving over a $30 trillion market cap. Uh, I've actually said 20, but maybe 30 being super generous, uh, $20, $20 million market cap would basically mean it eats the entire market cap of gold and then doubles that that would be 20.

So I think that's. But when you look at the derivatives market, which Ethereum helps deploy into crypto, it's a quadrillion dollars. It's a quadrillion dollars. It's more money than you can visualize. Now that's two thirds of all the money in the world are derivative. Uh, theory and other, you know, uh, blockchain, uh, projects, a similar vein can pull those into our market.

And when you look at that, that means that crypto has bigger potential than anything we've ever seen in the history of mankind. Uh, you know, to be a huge, a unifying force. So, uh, and that's not even, that's not even bring it. That's just talking about derivatives. That's not even bringing in the actual use case of a de-centralized internet, which we all desperately need and want.

And let's, we're going to be living in a, in a big brother society. And I'm not talking about the game. I'm talking about the book, uh, where, I mean, we're already there to be honest with you. So if the room is one of our best hopes to get us out of that, so. Uh, internet between the derivatives market. Uh, there there's just no better thing than a theory out there over the long-term.

It's definitely not Bitcoin. So I think it's just a matter of time. Look, somebody to like, this is trying to like put banned. On something that doesn't work anymore. You know, it was just trying to fix something. It's never going to be a currency. It's digital gold. It does graze digital gold. It's never going to be a currency.

And there's nothing that the Maxis can do to, to make that, you know, that that dream come to pass El Salvador accepting Bitcoin is a great example. This is going to be the Bitcoin maximalist, worst nightmare. They feel like El Salvador, 70 big one. Yes. Everybody can get his currency. You know, what's gonna happen.

The people are going to realize that they don't want to spend it because it goes up in value. So anybody that gets is going to hold on to it, it's going to feed the whole purpose of having it as a currency. So I think really this El Salvador experiment is going to be maybe the linchpin and finally driving away that narrative, that it is occurrence.

Yeah, Ben, I really like your take on, on Bitcoin and ether earlier on in the show before you came on, we were just talking about the possibility of Ethereum flipping Bitcoin. This market cycle. Logan certainly thinks it will. I think there's probably a 50, 50 chance or so, but definitely in the long run. I mean, it's almost inevitable.

I think Ethereum will pass Bitcoin's market cap. There's just so much more you can do, especially when you have a 200 trillion say 10. 10 years down the road and we have a 200 trillion or even a hundred trillion dollar market cap. There's just no way that Bitcoin can be dominant in that scenario. Like you said, it's, it's the digital gold and it will be used as that as a store of value.

And yeah, like you said, it's a $10 trillion market cap for gold and Bitcoins, much more accessible, especially 10 years from now. So yeah, maybe 20 trillion, maybe 30 trillion, like you said, but I mean, It has so much more potential to do so many more things. Um, so speaking on the trends here, we've seen a lot of new trends in crypto, especially on a theory in these past couple of years.

First we saw defy. Now we're seeing NFTs. Do you have any thoughts on the future of the fire in NFTs? And do you see any new trends coming about in the next few months? No, I don't have any opinion. Okay, have you, have you gotten sweet, sweet move on? You know what? I just pull in my leg. Um, yeah, so I definitely think deep by NFTs and gaming coins are the three niches to watch in the.

Um, cause I do believe in a bear market, I believe in a deep, painful bear market. Uh, just like we saw last time, the one I didn't believe in and then it came so this time I definitely believe in it. Um, and so those three niches, I believe are ones that have the opportunity maybe to hold the best or to have independent moments where, uh, you know, their use case and their act, not just our use case, but their actual number of users and what they're putting out.

We'll have the ability to have some pumps, even within the bear market. So those are three things to watch. I think with NFTs, this is an argument I've been getting into a, we, my business partner, uh, TJ, a lot of people know him from the show, but you know, he, he thinks that in the bear market in upkeep projects are going to go down.

And then the individual collectibles are going to go down as well with them. So like, let's say you have a board ape let's say is worth $200,000. Uh, you know, Ethereum goes all the way back down to, let's just say, you know, $1,500 after maybe it hits 10,000. And that means that, you know, the board ape is gonna, you know, shoot down that same percentage.

So it's only going to be worth, you know, $30,000 or something like that. I, I don't believe that's true. And the reason is. I have spent a lot of time, um, working in the sports memorabilia business, actually. So I used to have a, you know, I used to sell assigned football helmets. It was really interesting to watch the values of those helmets.

From week to week, one week, we would have a helmet that would come in and that helmet would be worth 2,500. The next week, we couldn't get rid of it for 600. And that may be based on all, you know, factors like, uh, you know, maybe somebody got traded and that's it now his old helmet, or, you know, maybe a new version of the helmet came out, maybe a team got a new logo or something like that.

So many factors played into that, but. The collectibles market moves that way for baseball cards, for Pokemon cards, for football helmets were movie memorabilia. It's constantly going up and down. Let's start here constantly going up and down. So, whereas with crypto in the price of the NFT projects themselves, I do think we're going to see considerable bear action.

I think within the bear market or the NFT collectibles, we're going to see that same kind of ebb and flow of the prices independent of the presence of the collection. Independent of the price of the coin, if that makes sense. So do you think that NFTs will actually underperform Ethereum in a bear market say that the board is worth 48th right now?

Do you think it will be worth less than 48th when, when it's Ethereum's at $1,500 or do you think it will probably stay around the same price in Ethereum terms? Well, I think that it's a great question. Um, there's one, I've got to put some thought to, I would say that. The thing you have to take into consideration is this, there was less interest in a bear market in general, by a long shot.

Okay. So guys that were doing YouTube videos, for instance, and we're getting hundreds of thousand views on them in the bull market, like back in 2017 in 2019, you know, they were, they were lucky to hit 10,000. Okay. There's less interesting. When there's less interest, that means that there's less demand.

And so that less demand would seem to indicate that the prices should drop across the board. But the NFTE buyer is not necessarily the crypto enthusiast. Now they may have become a crypto enthusiast through buying NFTs, but we're seeing through a lot of these mainstream celebrities and athletes, a new kind of buyer.

That is not necessarily super savvy on the crypto markets. I mean, I've done interviews time after time with, uh, you know, different celebrities and athletes. They're like, man, I'm really into these NFTs are really care about Bitcoin or Ethereum. So because of that, that means that even when the interest drops, that there still could be a level of interest from people outside of crypto and NFT is like, there's no question about it.

It Ft is the bridge to adoption for crypto the mainstream. Bridge to adoption. We're seeing it. We're seeing people who would never be in this space. And the thing that people really discount are the companies that are behind the scenes, making all the moves, getting themselves ready to sell NFTs, kind of like the NBA did without an NBA top shot.

Seeing the NFL positioning itself. We have a call with a professional sports team next week. They're wanting to do something with us. With a w excuse me, with our NMT launching program. So you're seeing paramount. You're, you're seeing movie companies everywhere, uh, Kevin Smith, director of clerks, uh, you know, doing clerks three, it's got blockchain through it.

So we're seeing Hollywood getting interested. And I think this is something we're not going to see stop. So I actually believe if you were to tell me, would I rather have a board ape or the equivalent amount of. I would say I would probably rather have the board ape because it's going to move more radically.

There may be a better time for me to sell it, you know, on a pump that Ethereum, which is going to be pretty much. Hmm, that's fascinating. Uh, so, so bad. I don't know if you've heard the news, but as of this morning, the sec is reportedly investigating unit swap, uh, and the unit swap labs team in the United States.

Um, do you think that, that these, uh, governance tokens should be listed as securities? What do you think is going to end up happening? Yeah, all cryptos a security. Let's shut it down. We had a good run in the chat. Let's get some . So here's the situation with, uh, with the unit swap. This is not about unit swap at all.

Uh, this is about ripple apps. This story that is out today is 100% about ripple labs. It is not about unit swap. This is a diverse. This is a look this way and don't look at what we're doing over here, because what's going on is that the ripple labs case is getting settled very soon. I believe by the end of this month, that will be over.

There's a lot of evidence now coming out to support that I've been sounding like a crazy person for two months saying it would happen in the middle of September, but now I'm actually starting to get a little support on that. There's a, there's a court date on September 14th that could end up being the final.

Uh, you know, the final nail in the sec coffin here. Now look, the sec is going to make it look like they won. They're going to do a settlement with ripple, and they're going to say like, see told you they did this. Now we gave them a fine, this is not what the sec wanted for this case. They are losing the case.

They just fired their director of enforcement, the director of enforcement resigned last week ever. On the job since January the second one to resign in a very short order of time, direct reflection of the ripple case. I don't have time to get into all the topsy turvy, muddled. Uh, you know, uh, you may not know this, but the lawyers for ripple were a director at the sec and the director of enforcement at the se.

During the time the XRP token was launched, that's just dependent. Yes. So there's so much about this case. It will blow your mind, but it's over. This is over. This is not going further. The settlement will probably come this month. Maybe it comes next month, but I believe probably by the middle of this month towards maybe about the 20th, we're going to get this case over now.

What does this have to do with unit swap? Well, the government's got to move on to the next thing. After taking a loss, this. Gary Ginsler, a lizard person is I like to call him. Gary Ginsler has to save base and move on to a, another big target, something shiny, a shiny object that are able to bike can be like, oh, now we're scared about you.

Just swap. Let's totally forget about the sec failure against ripple. That's what's going on. Ultimately. There's not much to go after on unit swap. Uh, I don't believe because of their, their process for listing tokens, you basically list anything there and get liquidity. The team itself is not providing liquidity for every coin that is on there.

All they're doing similar to Bitcoin is offering an open source way for people to be able to, you know, trade crypto. So I don't think there's much to go on. They could certainly hit them with a fine now unit swap labs makes big fees on these transactions. So they certainly do have a lot of money to pay some fines.

That's probably where that thing will end up. If you haven't seen a pattern here, you're not looking. The pattern is sec failure equals buying and selling. For the crypto projects, other than a few that have been given a view that didn't really launch or couldn't afford to fight libraries still in the thick of a fight against the sec, they don't necessarily have the funds.

The ripple apps has, uh, the kin token, uh, from the messenger. They were gone after very, very, very hard, uh, Paragon was shut down. It was a scam. And of course EOS, you know, they went after them hard, uh, for a $2 million fine, I think on a four or I think it was a $98 million fine on a $4 billion project. So it was about, you know, a very small percentage of what they actually raised.

So the sec doesn't have a winning track record here in crypto and, uh, the remote story. Just like BitConnect, uh, they, they, they're now trying to assume three years after the fact when nothing was happening. Like, all right, well, we'll just going to throw spaghetti at the wall and see what absolutely.

That's another one of those shiny object things everybody's talking about. Big connect. All of a sudden, again, I'm talking about, but have a quick follow-up to that. Do you think that XRP will start trading in the U S after that settlement? Absolutely. A hundred percent. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, crises, some positioning even before with some exchanges starting to realist as we get closer to the middle of the month.

But yeah, it's definitely going to be trained and that's all thing they're going to get the fine, they're going to be able to keep training. Um, and that's why I've said that in my opinion, for price alone, XRP is the number one coin for the second half of this. Heard it well, Ben, thank you so much for coming on.

Sharing some knowledge with us today. I know I learned a lot. I'm sure the audience did as well. Uh, we have your YouTube linked in the description below so people can go check you out there. Uh, but if you have any closing thoughts, any shout outs you want to give or any other places you want the audience to connect with you?

Uh, the floor is. Yeah, we just launched our a bit lab academy, uh, where people can learn about blockchain if you're new. So it's good for your audience that may not necessarily be the most advanced crypto user. You guys can check out bit lab academy.com. Awesome. Great. Thank you for joining us. Hope you have a good day.

All right. Thanks. Bye.

Well, uh, what'd you guys think how that was C was awesome. I mean, there's yeah, I learned a whole bunch. I didn't even think about it that way. Especially the U S economy or like the full even the global economy side didn't even think. You know, I haven't correlated the two in the terms of bear bull market and see what it's going to all kind of come together piece together.

And that's really, really interesting. Yeah. Yeah. He's so deep in the ecosystem. He knows so much about it. Uh, and he's very convincing with what he says. Um, Ryan, you have any thoughts again, Logan, if it, if we do see a hundred thousand dollars Bitcoin in the month of September, will you be selling? I mean, yeah, I think so.

Yeah. I mean, if we do double that's, that's definitely a sign of a blow off top. I think I would definitely start averaging out of my position, but at the same time, we've seen, we've seen close to a hundred percent pumps before the bull market was over. So, I mean, there's definitely different takes and, and a lot of things to take into account.

I think that Ethereum's proof of stake might be the blow off top for this crypto market cycle, but only time will tell. Right. But like he said, he thinks the altcoin market's going to continue on after the Bitcoin top, which I think is really interesting. And I'd love to see that play out because there could be so much that goes on there and really people will be only focused on the altcoins that could really kind of change the narrative.

That BDC is king. I mean, we're continuing to see that BTC dominance slide in the east dominance rise. So we're 20% now, uh, which is just crazy. Um, and yeah, I, I mean, I think he shared a lot of interesting ideas that I really hadn't heard before. Um, and yeah, I mean, it it'd be really, it'd be great to see what happens, you know?

Yeah, totally. I think I heard what you guys said. Cause I had my headphones. I had, my dogs are going crazy, but I think that's spot on. And I think that Ethereum has a lot more room to grow in terms of, you know, just mark cap, everything and Bitcoin has kind of hindered it. The fact that yeah, someone in the chat said they do have DFI.

They do a smart contracts. They do. And they don't, and it's being added years and years later where they have, they're going to have to catch up the whole time that all these other chains have had them. They're going to have to catch up. And these developers don't always work on these other chains.

They're just strictly Bitcoin. And so it's it, Bitcoin started all, it's just like anything else. Bitcoin is the key to this whole movement to everything that we know, and that we talk about on a day-to-day basis, Bitcoin has started, but. Everything else has kind of surpassed it. And now Bitcoin is like, uh, what the pound compared to the Euro.

You don't use one, one of them anymore. You only use the other, but it still started that their whole currency. So there's a lot to say. I hope that Ethereum, I personally believe that theory is superior to Bitcoin, but that's just me in terms of where I want to store my, uh, where I have the best store of value, where I have the most functionality and where I can actually grow in the whole ecosystem in general.

But that's not saying I don't not like Bitcoin, cause I do. Yeah, for sure. I mean, Bitcoin is one application of DFI, right? It's a store of value. And then every other application of DPI requires smart contracts. So the rest of it's going to be going on, on, on blockchains that can handle smart contracts.

I'm not entirely convinced about Bitcoin's ability to upgrade or the lightning network's ability, uh, to really do some advanced stuff that we can see, um, on like fully, uh, turn, complete virtual machines, like the, the EBM, the Ethereum virtual machine. Yeah, I liked, I liked that he was bullish about Cardona.

Um, he's definitely more knowledgeable about it than I am. I didn't even know about the European union deal. Um, but that would be huge. I know they're doing a lot in Africa, which is pretty cool too. Um, crypto is insanely popular over there. It's really, really cool. Really cool to see that happening at the retail level first, but that's what crypto is all about.

Right? Right. That's right. Solano will not flip. I'm just going to say that right now you can quote me, but that's really interesting what he said about Solano where, cause he's right. That whole pump, I mean almost a hundred, 200% in the last week or two. It's not just because people are looking at, there's a reason this money is coming in, because if you look at the market cap and that's a whole lot of Regan money that's been pumped into, and that's just not people rein and retail investors putting in there one thousands, 10,000, maybe even a hundred thousand.

I mean, if you're, if you're that, um, fancy. You know, there there's something else going on there, but that is a good sign that people believe in it. And even if it's shady, even if it's real, even if it's not, you know, that's still a great sign for it, but he's got a good point. And, um, I've been bullish on Cordato for awhile and Solano, but I cannot wait until we see what Cordona can actually do.

Cause I'm a big fan of Charles' house. Yeah, for sure. Hey, no, I want to highlight your comment real quick. Eve can't scale. No, the main net can't scale. Uh, but it will have shard chains, 32 parallel blockchains that will scale. And then also other layer, two solutions and side chains will help a theorem to scale as well.

I mean, that's what metallic has been saying forever. Um, so. Uh, can scale. I don't think many people will be using the main net and in the long-term for most applications, unless you need that heavy, heavy level of decentralization. Um, we have run completely out of time. We have zinger stock trivia, uh, starting one and a half minutes ago.

Uh, so I'm going to wrap this up now. Thanks everyone for tuning into moon or bus today. Uh, hope you enjoyed. If you did smash the like button, we had a great show for you, a great interview, uh, and we will see you not on Monday it's it's labor day, but we'll see you in. Wednesday and we'll get samples for the thing

Palooza giveaway. Next Wednesday guys, go check Benzinga Twitter to win a free 200, $350 ticket or a thousand dollars VIP ticket to doge. Brilliant. So go check bins and get Twitter and retweet it. Hit it up. We will see you Wednesday.

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Bitboy Crypto 56:20 Share

Moon Or Bust

Shownotes Transcript

Bitboy Crypto