Is Sex A Chore?
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So what happened? You hit friend zone and then like it fizzled? Yes, because I didn't know it was normal. Like I didn't know other people went through that. So I assumed going through that meant we just weren't made for each other. Like I never knew that people went through this. All right. Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Mean Girl Pod. Happy Monday. I hope you have a great weekend.

Yeah, I hope you had a fabulous weekend, whatever you did. Do we still intro ourselves? I never know. Yeah, of course. I'm Jordan. I'm Alex. Welcome to the podcast. I feel like you and I actually have such different voices where people would never fall for that. They know better than that. Yeah, they know. I'm Alex. That's Jordan. So before we jump into all the crazy things happening in our life, we had a meetup last week.

On Wednesday night at the same place where we had Jordan's birthday party. And it was a huge success. It was so much fun. Everybody... I would say it was female heavy, which I loved. Yes. A lot of girls came. And we didn't know if anybody was going to come. And it was like flowing. People were there. They were having so much fun. They came with friends. Some people came... A lot of people came alone. So many... Actually, I feel like more people...

came alone and the goal of the meetup was for people to make friends and so many people did make friends you said some people were going out to dinner together afterwards which was perfect yeah so this group of girls came and i think some of them came with each other but then there was two girls who came alone and they all became friends and told me when they were leaving that they were all going to get dinner together that week they were like exchanging numbers

Did you have fun tonight? Yeah!

You want to go out! We're going out! We're going out on a Wednesday night. On a Wednesday night? It's Mean Girl energy! Yes! Mean Girl energy!

Okay, also, shout out to people going to things alone. I don't think I would. That's what I was saying. Like, I don't have the balls and I wish I did because it seems so liberating. Especially if you live in the city for a decent amount of time. Yeah, totally that. I felt like it was New York. It was very New York to go by yourself, but also very mean girl. But the irony of that is I wouldn't do it. See? But I support it. I gotta tell you what happened to me this morning. Yeah. About 3 a.m.,

Oh, like really early this morning. Early this morning. I woke up and I was convinced that I was a rotisserie chicken. No, underneath a light. And I woke up and I was like, kind of had tears streaming down my face because I was like, I thought I was a chicken. And it was so vivid. And it took me about 10 minutes to talk myself out of being a rotisserie chicken. That's never happened to me before. Was the light in your bedroom on? No, the light in my bedroom was not on. But I thought, I think I was hot. I think I was warm.

And my comforter, like, it's really thick and it's been a problem lately, but I think it was extra bad last night. And I couldn't go back to sleep. I was freaking out. You were dreaming about it? I was dreaming about it and then I came to and I thought it was, like, real. So I was kind of like, I thought I was trapped inside of a chicken and then I was like, it's okay. And then I fell back asleep imagining me telling you about it. You know what's so weird? I had...

very vivid dreams last night too and you know when your dream is so vivid where you wake up and you literally are like did that actually happen yes and you're like I'm okay I didn't stab anybody like have you ever had a sex dream about somebody and it's so vivid where you wake up and you're like oh my god did I just cheat on my significant other has that ever happened to you yes yes and it's the you wake up and you're like

it's over. I have run my relationship. And then you just look at the person and you're like, oh, it's all good. They don't know. Nobody knows. Nobody knows I killed somebody. Or that like a parent died. You're like, oh my God, my mom's dead. And then you wake up like, no, it's fake. Life's fake. Or the dream was fake. But also I always wonder, I'm like, because sometimes I, you have like,

Intimate dreams about people that are the most random human beings that I haven't talked to in 15 years. I'm like, where did you, how'd you pop into my head? It's a sign though. Is it? What do you think it is? I don't know what it is. Like, I just think your brain is like pulling from those parts of your life and they're like, oh, you're thinking about this friend. And I think if you really thought about them, they probably, maybe it was a sport you played in high school and you felt a certain type of way. But I think your brain brings back memories because it's craving either stability or a certain part, like an emotion. Yeah.

Also, like, not to get into dreams too much, but I believe there's a type of dream where when it feels so vivid, it's almost like that person's also having that dream, and it's, like, another way to connect in, like, a different way of life. It's like a portal. No, I'm serious. You haven't heard that? No, I've never heard that. Astro dream. Okay, that's really... That's interesting because...

Sometimes I... If Graham and I are like... Haven't had sex in a little bit, I will dream about it. And I've never asked him like, what did you dream about? Did you have that dream? I also think it'd be awkward if it was just me. I just spit. I glee. That's a fantastic segue, Alex. And I... You know, it's just honest. I'm hot because of the chicken topic. But I think that...

Has it been a while since you and Graham have had sex? Well, I have shingles, Jordan, so... Yeah, how's that going? They're still there. I thought I was a rotisserie chicken. I have shingles, and a cap fell off of my tooth. Oh, yes. You are struggling. Maybe it fell off when you were at the Hamptons. It had to have. I said the first time I went to the Hamptons, I got literal Lyme's disease. I can't believe that. The second time, I got shingles, and the third time, I guess a cap fell off. Wait, so how many weeks has it been since you guys have done the deed? I don't know.

two is that a long time for you guys in that in your relationship very i i it's a long time it used to not be maybe like a week and a half but for right now yeah long time and graham like wants to yeah but i i don't want to be touched at all yeah i was gonna say like is it just because you're just like not feeling it or is it because you're like in pain i'm in pain and like my whole part of my stomach hurts like you know like i'll

I can touch it because it's so sensitive. But you know what shingles is? My mom, she worded it perfectly. Feels like something's growing roots in you and then the roots can stab you. So you don't want... That doesn't feel intimate, right? Oh, yeah. Can you imagine? No. It's kind of weird. Oh, my God. I feel like it's almost like contractions, but on the side of your stomach. Yes. So Graham's supposed to just wait until they fizzle out? I guess. How long has... What's the longest time you guys have gone without having sex? Okay. Okay.

Remember the friend zone, the friend patch that I touched on? It was like when we got married. In your marriage episode. Yes, yes. In the marriage episode, we got married. And then six months later, we were like, we are best friends. You know, like, I felt like I'm hanging out with you. I feel like I'm hanging out with him. There's not really any difference. Probably then, I think there was a point we went a month. Wait, so when you guys were living together? Fully living together. Married. Married.

When you guys were in the friend zone, did that ever happen when you guys were just in a relationship or it happened once you guys were just married? Which seems odd. It does seem odd because I feel like a lot of people hit the friend zone. Well, I think you can hit it whenever.

But we were so tumultuous when we were dating. It was like we dated. What do you mean by that? Do you know what I mean? I have heard it, but I need to hear the sentence. Like we broke up. It was rocky. Yeah, and then we would get back together, and then it would be like the honeymoon phase again. It would be like hot and steamy and like I hate you and love you. And then the engagement, and that's another round of honeymoon phases. So we kind of always had something to look forward to. We were long distance. There was all these things.

So we got married and it was like a constant. Yeah. And there was, it was normal and it was like a routine. And we really fell into dinner, having fun, coming home, changing. He like never would look at my body. Like it was very just like, it was definitely two sided, totally two sided. Totally. That was the thing that I think is so odd. It was so two sided. We both were in the friend zone. I think it upset me more than him, which I think most of the time it upsets the guy because

When we were going through marriage counseling. You went through marriage counseling? Before we got married. Oh, everyone has to, yeah. Yeah, like that. We were doing that whole thing. The guy said, he said, I don't want to know, Graham, what your jacking off situation, porn situation is. Whatever it is, like it stops today. Okay. And he was like, from here on out, like the only person, he didn't say these words, but the only person that's going to make you cum is going to be your wife. And at that point, I remember being like, that can either do one of two things for you. That can put a ton of pressure on me.

or in one sentence that can kind of explain like the value of sex to you. And it kind of did that for me more. I was like, okay, this is like a powerful thing. Like,

I think guys like need to come maybe. Like I think they're like supposed to. Yeah. I think that's just something they tell you when you're 14 and they want a hand job. But can't they get like blue ball? Like really? Like it gets painful if they don't come. Like too much build up. I think that's like high school boys like trying to make you like touch them. I don't think blue balls is real. I think it's real. I think it's real too. Guys, I don't. They have to ejaculate because like they are producing like sperm all the time.

No, no, I think she's right. They have to release it. Yeah, because think about it. We are born with the amount of eggs we are born with, but they are constantly producing sperm every single day. And if they don't release that, it gets built up. I don't think so, guys. I really don't. I think that that's a myth by young boys. Wait, it's not like breast milk. It's not like you need to pump it or you're going to like... No, I think that they just tell you that because they want you to finish them when you're 16 and...

don't want to have sex with them. If you're a guy, can you please not let us know? No, I think it's real. I think it's good for them to come. No? Oh, trust me, the people will let us know. Yeah. We're going to know. I kind of want someone to just walk in and like, hey, our blue ball is real, but scientifically. Like, do, I mean, I feel like it's the same way as like edging and you're like,

I don't know what that means. Like you're about to cum and you don't and then you're like frustrated? Yeah. I think that's as far as that feeling goes. Wait, but... I'm sure there's discomfort. I really don't think it's a painful thing. I think that's what like boys tell you to make you feel bad into giving them like a handjob. I don't think it's painful, but I think we're like hardwired. Like I think it's good for you. Like I think it's part of the community experience. Oh, for sure.

Yes. Like, I think it's a good thing. No, I'm saying the blue balls pain thing, I think, is a myth. Do you guys know that? Got it. Yeah. Do you guys know there was a study that said masturbation and having orgasms helped prevent COVID? I'm serious. That must be why I never had COVID. Like, literally, like, orgasms are good for you. Like, coming is good for you. It's good for your health. They also say people who, like, come or orgasm on a regular basis get sick less. Huh. I believe that. That's why I'm always healthy. Have you ever used orgasming as a hangover cure?

Um, I don't really get hung over, so I don't know. It's almost immediate. Okay, can I, like, tell you a story quick? No. Yeah. On that vein, I don't know if I want to hear it. I want to hear the story, but sure. We kind of do. Okay, so, on Tuesday, it was my birthday, and it was also full moon, and...

You guys, I, all of a sudden I was at work and something hit me where I was so unbelievably horny. Like I have never been that horny in my entire life. Like I was like crossing my legs. I was like, I have to go home now. And I don't know what triggered it. I don't know why I was so horny, but it was like debilitating me. I felt like my underwear was like vibrating. What'd you do?

What did you, did you solve it? I did. I did. You want me to get your vibrator? You like had to. I literally ran home and I was like thinking about him like, do I know any guys? Do I know any guys? Who can come and have sex with me? You guys, it was so bad. I felt like the moon was like. It was so weird. I've never felt that way. I was like, what the fuck is happening to me right now? It was crazy. Literally crazy.

See, I'm kind of jealous of that though. Well, it's not an everyday thing. No, I know. But just to have like that, that like hit you. Like I have somebody I could be like, Hey, I'm very horny. And I'm like, why don't I want that? I mean, where'd it come from? I, that's the thing. I don't know. It just hit me. I mean, I, in my head, I'm like, it was because of the full moon. It was my birthday. Astrology freak. But I don't know. It was the weirdest thing. I was literally sitting at work and all of a sudden I was like,

Oh my God. I literally was like, I literally was shaking in my seat. My legs were crossed and I was like, I have to go home now. Wait, what time was this at? Um, it was probably around like after our main girl meeting. Two-ish? You should test it. You should eat cake again. Like a, like a, a big amount of cake. Maybe you were just so happy because you had a birthday cake at work. Like everyone was telling you happy birthday. Like,

Like it was just like the attention, the fun, the love. Maybe. Theory could be. You guys are crazy. Cake made you want to fuck. Sugar horn. Uh-huh. How many times that happened to you in your life?

Um, no, like Alex, this was like, I can't. A once in a lifetime? Yeah, like I felt like my underwear was legitimately vibrating. I'm wondering if you touched me if that could happen to me. If I could channel that. Gotta go. The more you touch yourself or like,

feed what is the word the more you play like what do you call it pleasure the more you pleasure yourself and then the more it's like working out like you start to crave it yeah more um i'm more horny you should ride that oh i i don't need to ride that i've been doing that for a long time i think that might be my problem wait so how often do you do it

I mean, it ebbs and flows a few times a week. Okay, it ebbs and flows. Yeah, I mean, there's been weeks where I do it every day if I'm bored. Because it's like a chore. Yeah. Not a chore. It's not a chore. It's a fun thing. Yeah. That's the enemy is when it becomes a chore. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have a question for you that I wanted to ask before. At one point in your relationship, like in the beginning, you go out, you're drinking, you have fun, and you come home, and you're excited to have sex, and it's like,

for hours and is the best thing ever. And now, like, living together, you might have that same night, come home, change, brush your teeth, and you both just go to sleep happily. Do you feel lame about that? Because sometimes I'm like, wait, should we? We should probably be having sex right now, but I'm just, like, so tired and cozy. I just want to go to sleep. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I have, like, so many layers to answer this. Because, okay, the going out aspect, when we come back, Mm-hmm.

Graham doesn't drink. So I'm the one that's like had the wine. Oh. But this is a fun moment for us because he's like, do you want... Does that person with the wine in her want to have sex? And I'm like, sure do. Like it's almost like he knows. So that's like one thing where we'd like probably always capitalize on that moment. However, I feel like in New York we go out a lot more just even like dinner. So it's like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. You know what I mean? So...

If that wasn't the case, do I think we would do it every night? No. Like, we don't do it every time. I don't feel bad about that because it's so often. Also, the cozy thing, though, like being tired. This is where I start to wonder, like, that's when I say, is sex a chore? Like, I ask myself that question. And it's like the more there was a point where sex was a chore.

But everyone says, everyone tells you like the best way to keep marriage alive is to have like a sexy sex life, like a steamy sex life.

And I never really understood that or like felt that or knew why until we fell into the friend zone where I was like, from the friend zone, it's going to go one of two ways. It can go to the right or to the left. Let's say the right is good times, sex, love, steam. But to the left is like arguing, fighting a problem, breaking up, breaking up something like that. If we go to the left and we came from the friend zone,

I don't have anything to look forward to. Why would I want to get out of that fight? You know, like if hope is somewhere you've been before, you're like, now we're fighting. I don't want to go back to the friend zone. Can I ask you a question? Yeah. When you were in the friend zone, were you like actually not attracted to him at the time or were you just not into sex at the time? That's a really good question. I was attracted to him. I wasn't. Yeah. But I was attracted to him in a way of like,

Like, why did it turn into the friend zone? That's what I'm wondering. Like, what triggered that? You asked me a great question the other day. You said, do you think you married for emotional or physical? Yes. And I was like, emotional. And then I had to work for physical. Oh. Like, Graham and I were highly emotionally compatible. But physically...

You know how sometimes you have like insane sex with somebody and it's like, but you kind of fight a lot. Yeah. And it's like, you feel all these things or you're like, we get along great. I can do life with this person when it's bad, when it's good, we push each other. We were more of that. Okay. And then I was like,

But we have to make it 50-50 because I think a successful relationship is emotional and steamy. Yeah. Well, because I think a lot of people, when you get into a relationship, I think we forget that you're never going to find someone that's perfectly 50-50. So it's like, do I want to date this person for the stability, the emotional connection, or do I want to date this, not crazy person, but like this person makes me hot and heavy, but we don't like the best emotional relationship. Yeah.

Because you said with your ex, you hit the patch and you guys broke up. Yes, because I didn't know it was normal. Like, I didn't know other people went through that. So I assumed going through that meant we just weren't made for each other. Like, I never knew that people went through this. So what happened? You hit friend zone and then, like, it fizzled? Yeah, I mean, we dated for five years. We hit friend zone about, like, a year.

year four and it was for so long where I was kind of like well nothing's gonna change but I also didn't try to make it change because why you didn't care I didn't know how to make it change and I also didn't know it was normal so I never thought that it could change

that's fair. The same thing happened to me. Yeah. And sometimes I, I mean, it's for the best. Like I think, yeah, I don't think we would have worked out anyway, but sometimes I think that the moment I realized I wanted to break up with my like six year relationship was the friend zone thing. I didn't know it was real. I remember crying to my mom on the couch about it. Like I remember saying, I want to feel passionately in love with,

with the person I'm with. I'm 23 years old and I don't feel that way. But I had in the past. So I wonder if I had known that if I would have stuck it out. Hearing you say that you and Graham went through the friend zone was like the most eye-opening thing because I truly had no idea that that was common. Like, how did you guys get out of that? It took... I don't think it's a bad place to be. I need you to walk me through the whole thing. Like, the moment you were aware of it... And you jumped on it. And how you had a conversation. Like, I cannot even imagine...

And like, I cannot imagine successfully getting out of the friend zone. So I need to know everything. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Start from the beginning. Graham and I used to be, it's like we used to be the sex, drugs, rock and roll type thing. Yeah. And I loved that phase, but I knew it wasn't sustainable. So him and I, when we were engaged and getting married, we were also growing up. Some of our friends were having these jobs. Like we started to take life a little bit more seriously. Yeah.

And so with that, we got married at that time and we stopped going out as much. We fell into like a pretty serious routine. He would go to an office every day. I would work from home. We had been married for six months. Like the honeymoon kind of wears off, you know, and you're like, okay, so you're going to come home every day at five. We're going to make dinner and then we're going to, we're going to eat it together. Maybe watch a movie or something, fold some laundry and then go to bed. Yeah.

and we would have sex at night sometimes and then it just kind of got to where we would be going to bed and be like I'm exhausted or just like what's the point we weren't arguing that was the thing we weren't ever arguing in the friend zone we got along great because we're like best friends best friends we never held hands though anything like that oh so you lost your physical touch altogether also when you were about to have sex was it like

Was it like, oh, do you want to go have sex? That's the word I wrote down. It was awkward. It got kind of awkward. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we were like, we know we're supposed to have sex because like you're married and that's what you do on a Thursday night when you get in bed. But we were both kind of like, like, we kind of like hurry up and get this over with. Like, come, I want to go to bed. Yes. It was like, it was a sex became a chore. But I knew, but I knew I was like, I remember these fun, steamy times. I love this person. So it was like, okay, we have, we have to address the elephant in the room. We have to be like, I went first.

I'm more emotional. I scream things out loud. He's a little bit more of an internalizer. So I was like, Hey, I started out, I felt really awkward. So at first when I started out, I was kind of like, Hey, do you think like we should, or like you could tell, like I miss when you touch me kind of like, I miss when you just like grab my ass out in public.

And at first he was like, yeah, yeah. But I, you know what I think he thought? I think he thought this is what marriage is like. Oh, I think a lot of people do. I think they think that's how it's supposed to be. And then they just stick with it. That's so true. And you're like, and you're okay with it. Yeah. You're like, you know, this is what it is. This is what we've seen. Cause also not like our parents generation. They don't, they don't talk about sex like we do. So we just assume they don't have sex. That's normal not to have sex. Like that's my biggest fear. Get married. And then you lose all the steam. Yes. That's what it was. And I was like,

I was like, it doesn't, no, no. We do not have to be this way. Like, we can juice this up. We can have sex at noon if you want to come home for a lunch break. Yeah. Like, we have to spice this up or I don't think I, this isn't fun for me. So, do you think it was the routine that was the biggest, that caused it the most? I think it was the routine. I think it was fear. I think we both assumed this is just, I mean, it's going to happen at some point. The honeymoon phase is going to wear off. We're going to, it's going to suck.

And then I think we both were like, this is it. It's happening. You know, this is the marriage thing. This is the enemy. This is the boringness of it. Like, and it was like, why would you just fall into a stereotype voluntarily? Yeah. You know? And so we started really having to be like, okay, you got to touch me. I would touch him first. I grab his hand and little things like that. And it's like when you go to the gym, you know,

Muscle memory. Muscle memory. And you're like, okay, I'm going to the gym. At first I know it's not fun, but then I'm going to start looking better. Then I'm going to be able to run on that treadmill a little bit longer. Then I'm going to feel good. Then I'm going to like love myself. And that's what started to happen. So did you start to like change up things you did in the bedroom? Like did you buy lingerie? Did you try new positions? Like how did you get your sex life to be sexy again? I literally can't imagine going. You know what I mean? Like I can't.

I wish I could ask him this. He asked his therapist at the time too. He was like, what's like, what can I do? And I don't know what the therapist said, but it was good. He was like, this is normal, but you two have to a start talking about it. It was seriously like awkward. The person I know like really well, I'm like, Hey, we need to, should we go have sex? We downloaded an app, which gives you like a new position every day. Okay. That's fun. It was very fun. Then we found our favorites telling you guys, you know how I feel about the 69 that like got me through it.

And lingerie, like he would buy it. Like...

Different times of the day, you have to, like, mix it up. But we were just like, we cannot fall into routine. I want to go to bed. I'm tired. Routines are healthy but scary. I don't even think that you need to switch it up that much. I think you just need to have a conscious effort to, like, be so present when it's happening. Oh, the present is big. Because sometimes you could have sex for, like, three minutes, like, in missionary, and you're, like,

Like, that was awesome. Yeah. If the passion's there. Yeah. That's the thing. I enjoy sex. When we're flirting and things like that, I'm like, I want to go home and have sex. Dude, you're my husband. I love it. I feel really connected to him in that way. But I think when you fall out of it, you're like, oh, we got to do that thing. We got to check that box. But yeah, if you're present and you're like enjoying it, like, do you enjoy having sex? Because it's different for you. Because are you doing it? Like, why do you...

Yeah, so the way I like describe it is so it's very hard because I'm a very sexual person. I love like making out touching people. I'm horny a lot of the times, but I don't love sex a lot of the times. But I think what I'm learning is I am.

Somebody needs to be really connected with someone to have sex. Like we talked about in that one episode, like one night stands aren't fun because I'm not connected with that person. I just feel like I need to be very comfortable with someone to have great sex. Cause I've had great sex, but it's with people that I am extremely connected with. We'll need a great sex a few times in my life. Really? Yeah. So you, so you are, you are sexual. Like you're a very, like you're a very sexual person. Yes. But you need to have like the passion attached to it. Yeah.

So how do you, how are you doing like with being single? Yeah. Being single. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's the, well, I mean, so I didn't have sex for about two years cause of COVID and it like, it didn't bother me. Like I wasn't bothered by it, but I was bothered by the thought of it. Cause I thought people were going to think I was weird for not having sex. Like it's,

Not that anyone's like, so when was the last time you had sex? But it was like, it was going on like two years. I was like, that's so embarrassing. But I was like, why? Why did you think it was embarrassing? I think because society like teaches us if you're not having sex regularly, you're like a loser. I felt like a loser.

Like, I literally felt like a loser. I was like, no one finds me desirable. That's such a movie trope. Yes. You know what I mean? Like, if it wasn't for movies, I feel like no one would think that. 100%. It's so funny, too, because...

It takes so much to like go out, go on the dates that you do, put yourself out there like you do. I think it's like one of the best things that you've done since I've known you. I'm like, oh my God, you're a thorough, like you really, you shoot your shot truly. Oh yeah. Some people are like, I'm single. Woe is me. And it's like, for you, it's like, we can definitely say you try.

Yes. And then to think about it in terms of like the people that you've slept with or like the number that it is. Yeah. It's like, that's so funny that we would put value on that as opposed to like the effort that you do. Right. Like I remember when I came to New York and I finally had sex and my biggest thought was, oh, now I can finally say it hasn't been two years and I can say it's been like a few weeks. Wait, no, we even talked about that on here. Yeah.

I think I'm, I think I was like part of that. I think I was like, wait, how long has it been? Yeah. Yeah. Why did I, why did I do that? Why did I care? It's a society thing. Like you're like, wait, cause it's almost like you think you can't like people can't function without having sex regularly with another human. Wait, could you though? Yeah, it was fine. I mean, I know how to do, I can do it myself just as good. That's,

How long did it take you?

I can do it pretty quickly because I sometimes don't want time crunches. Three to five minutes? Yeah, I can do it three to five minutes if I need to. I just need to stop visualizing it. Yeah, please don't do that. It makes me uncomfortable. No, no, no. It's good. I'm proud of you. Feeling your best starts with what you eat. Amen to that. Saqqara helps you live a healthy, balanced lifestyle and truly enjoy it with delicious, plant-rich, transformational nutrition that builds a foundation for a living in your best body. This is true. I have used the Saqqara products for decades.

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Enter code mean at checkout. M-E-A-N. That's Sakara. S-A-K-A-R-A dot com slash mean to get 20% off your first order. Sakara dot com slash mean. Run. Don't walk. The body count thing is funny. Yeah, I just think like I've learned over the years that I need to be very emotionally and physically connected with someone, which is very hard to find.

When you are emotionally or physically connected with somebody, do you consider sex a chore? Or no, you really enjoy it?

Wait, when I find someone very... Yeah, when you're with... When you find... When you found the person. Oh, no. I want to, like, jump their bones all the time. All the time. It's just hard, too, because I think I'm in my head a lot, and I have, like, insecurities with my body, so I, like, think about that, and I think that takes a lot away... Takes away from the sex a lot, especially, like, when I'm with someone new, because I'm like, what if they, like, judge my body, or... Like, are they liking it? Like, I just... I'm in my head way too much, so I need to figure out a way to get out of my head. That... The getting in your head thing is really funny with sex, because...

So I just enjoy it. Yeah. But Graham's always like, I'm in my head. Why are you guys in your heads? About what? Well, like when I'm having sex, all I think about is like, are they enjoying it? Do they think like, is my stomach flat enough? Like, do they think my butt is like big enough to grab? Like, that's like literally all the things that go through my head. Like, do they think my boobs are big enough? Like, that's all I think about. It's like the other person. I never think about me. But sometimes aren't you not enjoying it?

Are you thinking that about them though? No, never. That's what I'm saying. But like when I'm super emotionally connected with someone or physically connected with them, I don't have those insecurities because I like, I know our connection is, I'm comfortable with them.

Like, I don't... I'm not insecure with my body around people I'm comfortable with. So then you're out of your head and you're just doing... You're present and you're doing sex to have sex. Yes. And you're loving it. But with these newer people, that's all I can think about. And the next thing I know, I'm like, I'm not even enjoying this because all I'm thinking about is if you think my stomach's flat enough for you. Does being drunk help or, like, take the edge off a little? It does, but then I'm... I mean, we know how I feel about drunk sex. Don't enjoy it as much. Yeah. Yeah. That's fair. Because, like, with you...

Do you and Graham enjoy sex because you're so comfortable with him and you know he'll love you no matter what you look like? Yes, I...

Are you ever insecure about your body with him? Yes. Okay. That was one thing I didn't say last episode about the nudes was a big insecurity for me would be I would send a nude and it would be like the perfect angle with the best lighting. And then I'd be like, wait, but when he sees me in person, he's going to be like, like, what if I still am insecure about my body with him? Yeah. And he's so sweet about it. But still, I've been married three years and I still am like, is my body good enough? Like, is my stomach flat enough? I think about that all the time.

I'm always like, I want to stay in shape for him. So I feel good when we're having sex and it's like,

What? Does he even care? Couldn't even notice. Oh, does he even notice? I could gain or lose 10 pounds. I'll notice the one pound. He won't notice any of it. I don't think guys notice or care. And I don't think they think about that for us. No. He's not like, let me go to the gym for her. I know. Yeah, if anything, they stop going to the gym. Literally. Yeah, like, it's so funny, but I do that. It's frustrating, though, because I feel like girls feel like they need to be this, like, perfect person because that's what society...

us that guys like but it's impossible yeah I think it's the magazines or like the stereotypical of porn with like the hot girl but no one I've never noticed what the guy looks like underneath her on like a magazine yeah but the girls like so sexual so in our heads like you want to be her yeah I have to be her yeah aren't good enough you're supposed to you know what I was used to be really bad about when

when we were dating, I would always be like, am I as hot as like the porn person he looked at all the time? Like I would be, I would be in the middle of sex and I'd be like, oh, this is bad. I would think though. I would be like, is he thinking of me right now? Or like, is there a chance that he's imagining like another girl? And it used to just make me want to cry. Wait, did Graham watch porn a lot when you guys were in a relationship?

in a relationship? I have no idea. Oh. I never asked. What's Graham's porn history? Oh, I don't even know. I was just wondering like if you guys like talked about like he watches it a lot. No, we never talked about it. The only time porn came up was when the marriage guy was like, it stops now. And I didn't even ask him. Yeah. Because afterwards, Graham was like, I just want to let you know it will, it stops now. Like any of that. He's like, just know that you'll, if I come, it will be because of you for the rest of our life.

So I never even bothered asking. And I don't even know what he did before. But I would be, we would be having sex and I would be like, is he thinking of someone else? Like, am I, anybody ever wonder that? That just me? I would be like, are you thinking of something? Well, did it happen after the cheating situation?

Oh, it's like that's breakthrough. It's very triggering. Oh, that could have, that could have been, I don't, I can't place like where, yeah, honestly, probably. I feel like that's very normal. That would probably be my one like lasting trauma from that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you still think that? No, it's so nice.

I don't even... No, not at all. It's just so... I wonder... I'm curious to why Graham would be in his head. Like, what... Like, do you think it's because, like, he's thinking about so much in life? Or... You know what I mean? I always... I'm curious about that. He's like you. He's always wondering. He's like, are you enjoying it? And I'm like, wait, why don't... People pleaser. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. I'm like, why don't you just enjoy it and then I enjoy it? Yeah. Because someone one time told me they were like...

When I have sex, all I do is think about myself too much. And he's like, I need to think about the girl more. I'm like, no, like, I would give anything to be more selfish during sex. All I think about is the other person and I want to think about myself more. Like, I want to be more selfish during sex. Yeah, no, how do you not... I don't know how to do that. I don't know either. Well, I think just try, like, just one day be like...

I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Because I'm not going to be afraid like they didn't enjoy it. I think too, I'm like so, my ego is so big where I like would rather have them leave sex and be like, Jordan was awesome than me think like that sex was awesome. Yeah, but it's out of your locus of control. Yeah, and when you're married, I mean, it shouldn't matter. Well, I think when you get in the, I think when you know, does,

Does it happen to you when you don't know the person, when it's new, when it's like, let's say it was like the first time you went home from the bar, you don't know what they like, but when you start to know what they like, do you feel more confident about it and you can enjoy it? Yeah, I'm sure I do. I just haven't been, um, I haven't been in a relationship or like had consistent sex with someone since like 2019. So it's hard to remember. So it's hard to remember. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. But I think you're right. I think you're dead on. I think if I was in a relationship with someone, I would stop. That would, that would leave. Yeah.

Yeah, I would think that would be a factor. Yeah. But it's hard to say. Yeah. Yeah. Question for you. How often do you guys have sex? Is it a certain amount a week? Does that ever get in your head? Because I feel like being married, everyone's always like, well, how often am I supposed to have sex with my spouse to keep it spicy or normal?

I know I get this question a lot. People will be like, what's like, what is normal? And I'm like, I don't know. All I know is some weeks it's seven days. Some weeks it's three times. Sometimes it's all seven. Sometimes it's twice. It's like it ebbs and flows so much. My only thing is as long as sex isn't feeling like a chore and I want to do it, I'm cool with however long, like however many times a week that is. Does it ever still feel like a chore? Like every once in a while?

Yeah, I can catch it, though. I can be like, I'm upset about this shingle thing. I'm upset about this, like, dry spell. Because he's like, I miss you. Like, I want to touch you. And I'm like, because you do kind of have to get back in the flow of things after a dry period. Yeah. You know? I can't even imagine that, especially because you want to. That's the biggest thing. It's not like the dry spell is you being like, I don't want to. You're like, I want to touch you. Yeah. I think when it hits you and you're, like, sexist, feeling like a chore, you're like, snap out of it.

Oh, no, 100%. We're in this forever. But it's like, if people are struggling because it feels like a chore, it's like, how do you prevent yourself from getting into that best friend phase, you know? I think you have to talk about it. It's going to be so awkward. Yeah. But you're going to have to be like, I'm obsessed with you. I love you. And I love when we're flirting and touching each other. And right now we're not. So what do we got to do? Also, I think it's safe to say that since Alana, me and you have all gone through it, like,

It's a very normal thing to go through in a relationship. I think. If somebody says you're not, I think it would be a lie. They just haven't been together long enough, I honestly think. Yes. Yeah. Or you don't want to admit it. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's embarrassing. It's embarrassing and it's awkward. Yeah. But I think you have to talk about it because for you, maybe you're like, I need you to talk to me. But for me, it's like, I need you to touch me. Mm-hmm.

You know, like we're all different. So you have to sit down and be like, what do you need? For me, it's like, I need you to grab my ass or something. Yeah. Well, I'm sure sometimes the best friend phase like actually is the best friend phase. And it just means like you should break up kind of like what happened to us. But like, it's good to be aware of that. It is. I wish I wonder what would happen if I knew. I don't think I had. There was no hope for me. I think, you know, without a doubt.

Yeah, I think it would be it would be there was definitely underlying issues that would have presented Later on that like we we shouldn't have been together But at that point in time, that was why I broke up with him same. No same It was just because it had become friends friendly. Yeah, I just like wasn't Like excited about any type so like sex is very important to me Like I said, i'm a very sexual person and when I didn't have that in a relationship anymore I'm, like I can't go the rest of my life without having a good sex life. Like that's very important to me

I think... Okay, so I think if someone's listening to this and they're like, we're kind of in the friend zone. What do I do? You know, is it... Do we break... Is this grounds for breaking up or can we get through this? For me...

It was so obvious. Like, I loved everything. Like, I wanted it. I was like, I want to touch you. I want to have the steamy sex. Right there. You can tell if you actually, if you want it or not. If you're over it. Yeah. This is like, I think that would be the thing. It's simply like in my heart. I was like, I want it so bad. I'm like, I can see it. I can picture it. We're just not doing it. Yeah. So that was the simple answer for me. Like, it was just so simple. Oh, okay. I think I was point where I was like.

I was like, I'm done. That was gross. Yeah. So weird though, because I think, I think he's very attractive. Like physically he's very attractive and I just wasn't sexually attracted to him at all at this point. Like the thought of having sex with him was like disgusting to me.

Okay, then that's your eighth frame. There's probably no coming back from that. I've never felt that. It's always through me been like, I want to jump your bones. I just want to have the want to want to. Like hyper analyzing everything he was doing while it was happening. Like, why the fuck would you put your hand there?

Yes. I was the same way, Alana. Oh, my God. So that's the line. Wait, I think we should clarify this. Yes. Because that for me would be... Graham has never one time in my... A lot of guys would give me the ick and I could not turn back. The ick. Your term. The ick. They would give me the ick and you can't unsee it. I can't turn back from it. Yep. Not one time. Not one second. Graham and I, we're not perfect. It's been ups and downs, but not one time has he ever grossed me out. Because for you...

You wanted to have sex, but you just couldn't. For us, we did not want to, and we could not. But we did not want to. Yeah, and it sounds like you were like, I can't. But not like, and it's almost weird because like,

Alani made a great point. Like, physically, they're still attractive. Yeah. The only thing they were doing, it's just our brain was, like, rewired to be like, no. Yeah, it was, it's so, it's such a weird switch, like, switch. Yeah. It's almost like when you date someone, they could have the grossest flaws, but since you love them, like, you could care less. You're still sexually attracted to them. It's like that goes away and you see all their flaws and it actually really gross you out now. Yeah, you're like, wait, um.

You're like, how much time has gone by? Your toenails too long. Ew. Yeah. And that's real. But you know when you really love someone, you're like, your toenails can be as long as it can be. I just love you. Sometimes I'm like, I just think that's so cute. Or like their pimples are so cute. Yes. Right. You could be sexually attracted to someone that's like not that hot. Yeah. Oh, totally. You can't really like...

Fix that. Exactly. I don't think you come back from that feeling. Also, this kind of plays into like, I've been seeing some DMs that are like, I don't know. We were talking about this. I'm not so sure. Like, we might need to break up. And earlier you and I were saying how hard.

It is because we've both been there to break up with somebody when like you're feeling it, like when, when you know you need to and you want to hold on because it's, it's easier in the moment to hold on, but like having to actually, I read these messages and my heart breaks because I'm like, Oh no, like you want to throw up. You imagine that person dating another girl.

what if he doesn't what if he doesn't fight for you what if you break up with him and he realizes he's happier without you like this stuff just goes through your head and i just want to cry and i just i don't even have advice as the one that broke up with them like you're the breaker upper or you or you know you need to yeah you know you need to but you're just like i can't it just makes me want to cry the worst thing in the world too is when you need to break up with someone but you can't picture your life without them that like makes me want to

My heart crumble. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you know deep in your heart you can't be with this person for X, Y, Z reasons, but, like, you just can't picture your life without them. I think that's when you go into justifying mode. Mm-hmm. And you're like, but, but, and that's where we say we don't give advice, but if it's not, a hell yes. Hell yes. It's a no. Yeah. No. I hate it. It's so true, though. Like, ugh. It just sucks. Especially...

Especially at this age too because I mean, I'm getting close to 30 now and the last thing I ever want to do is settle. So I'm hyper picky about the people. I'll be hyper picky about the person I want to spend my life with. So I feel like I'm always like, I don't know. I don't really know where I'm going with this little tangent, but I just feel like

I'm always going to, I don't know. Well, that's actually different because you're saying you, that's good. I feel like that you would be picky where the opposite of that is like you're holding on because it's like, you feel like your clock's ticking. It's always, you're like, it's so bad too. And it's like your friend or family. Like when you can see it as an outsider, like that, it's like your best friend. You're like, that guy is so bad for you, but they, and they can see it too, but they just can't break up.

And we're sitting there, she's talking to you about him. Yeah. And you're like, let me do this one for you. Mm-hmm. You know, and you just want to scream. Yeah. But, okay, so that's one. How do you feel about the...

What do you think is the line of like saying something and then they marry that person, you know, being like, hey, don't know how else to put this, but he's an asshole. And then you're standing there as a bridesmaid and you're like, I called him an asshole. And she hasn't forgot that. Yeah. I don't know. It's tough. So out of my friends that are married, they're married to good guys, but I do have friends who are dating shitty guys. And then I've thought about them. Like if it gets to the point of...

them getting engaged was like, do you, do you, is it your position to tell them or do you let them figure it out on their own? I don't know. Well, Alex, you probably have experience with that because of like the, you and Graham getting back together, right? Oh yeah. You're from the other side. Like you were the, yeah. So I, when Graham cheated on me, I can think of all of my best friends, the overwhelming majority of them, all of them.

never it's like I don't know they must have read a book on it not one of them said one bad thing about him when it was when it was currently happening currently happening I'm like he cheated on me my friends were like we respect your decision this is really tough for you Graham wasn't a bad guy was the thing I think they knew that I think they knew Graham was a good person this was a bad action I had one friend who was like you have to break up with him

We don't speak anymore. She actually won't let me follow her on Instagram. What? So I'm kind of okay saying it. But like she very much so was like, this is bad. And I was okay with that at the time. But I stand here today and I remember all of my friends being like, we're just going to respect you. Yeah. And let you do your thing. I didn't ask them though. I never said, what's your advice to me? I think if somebody asks you, then you can say, no.

okay, here's how I feel. Even then though I would really walk the line of what you said, but if they don't ask, I don't think you tell. I also think the biggest thing that I've learned in life about relationships is it doesn't matter how many times you tell someone to leave someone, they're never going to listen to you. Only they can make that decision. So it's like, do you really want to waste your time talking shit and trying to persuade them where they end up presenting you? Or like, do you just let them do their own thing?

which I know it's very, very hard. Massive point though. Yeah. You can spray paint a building and say, and, and, and why do we make it about us? That's where we make everything about it. You're like, but, but you're not listening to like, for me, like, and it's just like, you could say it till you're blue in the face. You're, you are so right. Jordan Woodruff. They are not, they're not going to listen. Cause I think about all the times you've been in a,

Hopefully not all the time. The one time you were in a toxic friendship or relationship. Like someone, your mom could shake you and tell you to end things with them. But the only person who will end it is you went out on your terms. Like it doesn't matter what someone says or does. It's like literally it's like a flip of a switch. You're so right. Even if you ask your best friend.

You mean if you're like, I want your advice or I want your opinion on this and they give it to you, you're not going to, like, you're going to do, you're going to do what's in your heart anyways. Yeah. Like, I remember my high school boyfriend was such an asshole. Nice. And my best friend was, like, so against him and...

it ended our friendship for a while. And I, that like remind me, it's like, it like you trying to force your friend out of a relationship can actually hurt your relationship because they'll start blaming you and resenting you versus the person's actually causing the problems. You're right. Every time, every time they will. That happened to me in high school too. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean it was high school, so we were all stupid back then, but it's just something that like I learned and carried through life.

That's a really good point. Yeah, yeah. Maybe that's the answer too. Like you exert your... If they ask, I think you can say, but say also, like I know you might not take it, like take it with a grain of salt. No hard feelings how you take it. I also think it's okay too if, let's say...

their family member or their friendship. Like if it gets to the point where it becomes too much, like it's okay for you to remove yourself from the situation. Be like, Hey, I respect that you want to stay with X, Y, and Z, but it's causing too much stress in my life where I will be removing myself from our relationship. And I think that's so okay to do as well. Oh,

I think that's actually a really good point. And the older we get to, it's like the more you have to be like, okay, I'm going to just do a personal boundary here. That personal boundary is probably out of love anyways. 100%. I care so much about you. I can actually start doing things I'm not proud of, saying things I'm not proud of because I love you. Yeah. I've ended a friendship because of that. Really? Yeah. I mean, she just like, she wouldn't let him go and he was so unbelievably toxic and it was causing her so much mental health issues, which was like...

Like coming on to us. And I was like, I'm sorry. Like if you keep him in life, I respect that. But like, I can't be around you because he's turning into a person that I just can't. That's like, see, man, that's too bad. Yeah. It's you don't, you don't pick who your friends date, marry, date.

I've been really lucky with that. I've been really lucky with that, but it would be, it would be really sad if like one of, like somebody you were so close with or like one of your very best friends married somebody forever that you were just like, he changes you. And then you hear those stories where they're like, yeah, I don't see them anymore because their spouse kind of took them away. And I'm like, that's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking. Like you don't see your best friends or best friend anymore because their spouse wasn't

the right person for them. I love when, I love when people get together and equally make an effort for both sides of the friendships. There's nothing more attractive than dating someone or like when your friends are dating someone who makes an effort to be your friend. Yes. And he's like, and the guy's like, okay, so if you start dating somebody and he's like, let me come into your world. Yeah. And you're like, and let me go into yours and let's do it equally. Yeah. How, I mean, I don't know.

I hate when it goes any other way. I know. But like Graham and Mike too, like they do such a great job, like trying to get to know the people in your life, like the podcast we do, they come to the events, they try to be involved. Like that's just so amazing. I still...

I said that to Graham this morning. I was like, how special. I felt really loved with him last night, like looking over and being like, thank you for coming and like wanting to participate in like our lives and like being a part of this like with us. And he was like, what else would I do? I was like, I don't know. Did nothing. That's just because Graham's a great guy. He didn't even think twice. Don't be a dick. No. It's just, yeah, it's funny to think about. Oh, I want to tell you something funny one of the interns said to me last night. Oh, God. You guys are going to die. What? Oh, God. It's been really bothering me. Oh, no. Oh, no.

Name them by name. So I'm 26, you're 27, and Alex is almost 29, correct? Oh wow, we're 26, 27, 28. Enjoy it while we can. Yeah! He goes... I know exactly who said this. This was when you guys were gone, so it was just me and my girlfriends. And he was like, how old are you guys? I was like, oh, we're 26. And he goes...

Oh my God, really? You guys look so good for your age. I know exactly who said that because he said it to me too. No! No, he didn't. He was like... And I was like, sir, like...

You don't get it Like we are literally Well he didn't say it that way He was saying like That he called me old basically And was like you look But he was like Oh my god you don't look 26 You guys don't look 26 at all I mean he's 21 You look so good for your age Oh But I'm not understanding Do we look 30 and we look good? No he was saying that he thought that We were like 20 He thought we were his age Like 22

And he was shocked that we were 26. Yeah. And I was like, what do you think I'm supposed to look like at 26? One of them said happy birthday to me. And then he was like, how old did you turn? And I was like, 27. He goes, no. I thought you were like 23 or 24. And he's like, wait, how old's Alex? I'm like, 28? What? And he's like, no, she's not. And I was like, what the fuck?

fuck is that supposed to mean i know it's not so weird i think like when you were like 21 like 26 7 8 sounds so old i can't gauge them these days they were 23 the one was 21 oh jeez i was on the subway to the yankees game the other day and there was a bunch of kids and they were drinking out of like plastic bags and

And I'm like, are you guys 19 or are you 25? Like, I have no idea these days. I can't tell. Between 18 and 30, I'm like, I have no idea. That's what I said to him. I was like, in your 20s, everyone looks the same. Like, what do you mean? Like, all the Indians I could never guess their age. If anything, I feel like when I was 22, I looked...

Like, older. Like, not older, but, like, less refined. Like, I looked, like, weird. I used to look exhausted. Yeah. I was like, can you get some Botox? Your life.

look is freaky how different you look in LA versus here. Yeah, you look so different with long hair, Alex. Even my mom was like, is this the same person? I don't know. I look drastically different. And you look older back then. You look younger now. Why is that? I don't know. I don't know. It's like, I literally remember that comparison I did of the first day we met versus now. I'm like, why do you look like you're 10 years older? I know. You look so mature. I think it's your hair. I think it might be there. It was a ponytail.

I agree, though. Like, I don't know what it is that happened. I have been, like, really taking care of my skin, though. That could be it. I've become, like, obsessed with it. It might be that. You just seem brighter, too. Maybe it's just because, like, you're in an environment that you're, like...

That I like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That actually might be it. I'll take that. Yeah. You're like Spritely. We'll accept that. It was just like crazy because I mean you looked incredible both ways but I'm like you almost look like you're aging backwards. That's like you blonde though. You blonde. I was just going to say that. You blonde is like a 35 year old. No it is. Really? It doesn't look. Yeah. It looks so. I will take that any day. We're going to have to redo the photos when this episode comes out. Yeah. Here they are. You blonde though like when it pops up I'm like excuse me. Yeah. Oh because of TikTok.

Yeah, I see. Oh, my God. Ew. I love you. I love dark hair. It's perfect. I would be a brunette forever. But, yeah. It's funny. You don't seem like the type that would change your hair color. Like, you're pretty, like, structured. Yeah, you know, I, uh... Chaos. Chaos. I went through some, uh...

I hate, I honestly, I did it because I hated my life and I was like, I need some pizzazz. Do you like your life now? I love my life now. Good. Not every day. There are still days I still cry. But overall? Overall,

like I don't know if we might need to cut this out because it might be a little morbid I think I said to you guys the other day but like a year ago if I someone was like you're gonna die tomorrow I'd be like no I'm gonna have so many regrets like I'm not fulfilled yet but then now if someone's like you're gonna die tomorrow I'd be more content with it because I feel like I've lived this past year I've lived way more of a fulfilled life than I have in like all my other years my mom used to say my mom literally to my face to be like she used to say I was so boring she

She'd be like, you're so boring. Like, you're boring. I don't feel like moms ever say that, so it must have been... It must have been bad. It must have been pretty boring. I was boring. I was so boring. I literally was so boring. You're not boring now. No. I'm fun now. Like, comment, subscribe. Leave a review. Follow us on Snapchat. Snapchat, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok. Make sure to leave a five-star review on Apple and Spotify. And, um...

Thumbs up on YouTube. Watch YouTube. Subscribe to YouTube. YouTube. YouTube. Especially if you're still here at this point. Yeah. And we love you. We love you. We hope you have a great week. Rock on, because sex, drugs, and... Sex, drugs, and rock and roll.