Jamie Kern Lima: Divine Downloads
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Hey, everybody. Welcome to Literally. Today's going to be a very interesting one. Jamie Kern Lima, she has a new book out, Worthy, How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life. And her story is amazing. I mean, she was a Denny's waitress who started a makeup brand out of her living room.

and ended up selling it for over a billion dollars. And she has a new podcast out. And if you're worrying about self-worth or your idea, and is it worth anything? And how do you cut through the clutter and believe in it and keep going? Her story is extraordinary. So let's get at it. Jamie, we're on. We're doing this. We're on. Yes. We're literally doing this. We are. We are. I like that you got your book right there.

Right behind you, worthy. That's good. How's your, tell me about your writing process. I'm super interested because everybody writes differently. Do you have a, do you write set hours? Do you have a place where you write or do you write wherever the muse hits you? What's your, how do you do it?

Yeah. My process so far, I remember, Rob, when I sold my business and I got approached by a lot of book editors and also agents who are saying, okay, we're going to do like Denny's Waitress builds a billion-dollar company. We're going to tell the story. We'll get you a ghostwriter. And I just had this gut feeling like I'll know when it's time. I'll know when it's time. And so I said no for so many years. And

And then one day I just kind of knew and I knew when I started having these divine downloads where I felt like kind of like bursts of inspiration. Like, you know, when you feel those moments in life or like the things you've gone through, like you're now supposed to help other people get through those things or help

save them a million nights doubting themselves or crying themselves to sleep or any of the other stuff. So I kind of just had this moment where I knew it was time and when I started having just divine downloads. So that's the best way. Well, you said divine downloads. I feel like I

I started having those fairly late in life, but I definitely get them and they do feel like that. They feel 100% like I got downloaded with a message and inspiration, super specific. I had one recently that was the idea for an entire new television series.

It literally came to me completely in a download and I sold it the next week to Fox. Wow. Tell me about yours. Are they in your dreams? Are they in your meditations? Are they in your prayer? When did the divine downloads happen?

Yeah, I love that, by the way. Can you share what it is yet or is it still top secret? It's kind of top secret. Okay, okay. I'm excited. But it's a new iteration of a game show. So it was rules. It was like a new game, a brand new game with new rules, a title.

and the set. Wow. It was like a wink, wink, and it was like completely fully formed. That is so beautiful. So by the way, I don't think I've ever had a conversation about this before, ever, or ever talked about it. But I love so much that you're going there because I feel like in all the years where I wasn't really tuned in to Divine Downloads, I was more listening to my own thoughts

or my own self-doubt and just like trying to hear my own intuition and not even trusting it yet. I felt like I wasn't even in that space, like in that vibrational level where you're able to hear them. And I think we all can get divine downloads. Every single person listening to us or watching us right now. And so I think for people hearing that you have them also is gonna, cause don't you know when you know, like you get it and you're like,

Oh, how did that just come to me? Yeah. And I think it's, for me, it's a level of, when I started getting my meditation in order, more prayer, more quiet, more listening, because those, it would be super easy to mistake that dream for just a dream. Yeah. So you need to have an awareness that that's going on. But do yours, I read that you walk

You take an hour every morning to walk and meditate. Is that right? Does that make sense? Yeah, you've done your homework. Yes, yes, I do. And I find, you know, our world is just so noisy. And, you know, listen, I love, you know, social media. I love...

media. I love people's content. That's just amazing. I love podcasts, of course. And I try though to just get still. Sometimes I won't even listen to music and I'll just walk. And I find that I end up sort of like, that's when I have my divine downloads usually. And they'll just like come to me out of the blue and I'll rapidly text myself or say, this is not very sophisticated. Save it in my notes app on the

phone. It's so easily deleted. Do you do that too? I do it on my notes app. And here's my thing, because I get a lot of them in my dreams. And so, I mean, you've always heard the stories about, you know, Keith Richards had the idea for satisfaction in a drunken stupor and then wrote it down or somebody in a dream, but I could never wake up

Get a pen in my hand, pull out paper and write it. It was always too much for me. And then all of a sudden I had a light bulb. Wait a minute. I can just say, I don't want to say it now because she'll wake up. Sorry. And then I just say it. So I don't have to wake up. I just lean over and dictate it. And that's what's made me.

made the difference for me. You know, I think, and I read once that if you, if an idea like that comes to you, whether someone calls it a divine download or however they feel or they're in flow and they just get a strong sense, I read that if you don't act on it, if you don't write it down, if you don't do something with it, that it'll leave you. It'll leave you.

and go to someone else at some point. So I don't know if that's true or not, but I kind of believe it. Cause I think back over the years, I've had different, you know, senses or great ideas. And then it's like 10 years later, you're like, oh, someone did it or it's out there already or, or whatever. And so it's kind of a interesting thing that if you feel it coming, I love that you have the divine download and you sold it, you sold it within a week. Like you just acted on it and made it happen. Um, so many people kind of second guess them or they think like,

who am I to have something special come to me or probably a million other people have already done it. Like we tell ourselves all those things. So like we basically so often doubt ourselves out of our own destiny. And so when it comes to like divine downloads, I've tried to get better at,

hearing them going, okay, I'm going to just have this faith that it has come to me for a reason. And, um, and I'm going to act on it. I try to do that now. And I always find that if I do it and like, it does not go anywhere and I fall flat on my face and it's a disaster, I kind of just have this trust that, okay, I'm supposed to go through that to like either learn a lesson or build more skills or strength to be able to like, you know,

actually have the thing that's supposed to turn out a different way happen. And yeah, I've tried to get better at just kind of hearing them, right? Making that space, making that space. For some people it's prayer or meditation or just like a lot of people, their only space they could do it is either in the car because they've got kids and craziness going on all over the place or in the bathroom or in the shower. But I find like when you make the

that space and you just kind of start to, you can even ask questions and then like listen for the answer, whether it's in prayer or meditation or any of that. I remember, you know, I started a company in my living room. A lot of people only know the outcome. They're like, oh wow, you built this huge company, the thousand employees, all the things that happened that were all over the press. But so often the press just covers the fairytale part or like, but the journey is

Oh my gosh, the journey was like a million different times, either getting a rejection or a no or a setback or someone saying, that's never going to work or we're not going to bet on you or we don't think you're going to make us money. And it was exactly like what you and I are talking about where...

it was probably when I learned to do it best where like there are times I was just crying myself to sleep going, are we going to go bankrupt and never make it? And whenever I get still or pray about it, I'd always feel like this whisper that I'm supposed to be doing it or like I'm supposed to keep going. And even when like it didn't make sense at the time, I remember there were times when I was like,

okay, God, if you're telling me I feel like I'm supposed to do it in my intuition, I feel why is no one else agreeing with you? Am I hearing my intuition wrong? And this went on for three years. A lot of people, if they've ever Googled it, cosmetics are my story. They just see that headline, which is like Denny's waitress builds a billion dollar business. That's the headline that's everywhere. But what no one knows is all those years of

of just hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of no's and rejections and having to actually do exactly what you said, exactly how you started this whole conversation out, which I've never had this kind of conversation, but it was that. It was like getting still, hearing that gut feeling or getting a divine download, like this is what you're supposed to be doing. And then the key is like making the decision to actually trust it.

Like that's the thing. And I look back and it's like, oh my gosh, yes, of course I worked really hard and did a lot of other things right and wrong. But if I hadn't had learned to, to hear that whisper and then like trust it, um, and keep going, I think it would be a very different experience. That's for sure. Very different headline. For sure. I, it's funny. I hearing you talk about it. There's a story I heard once that, um,

One of the reasons, Michael Jackson clearly had trouble sleeping. And one of the reasons that he was so desperate to sleep was he thought that's where he got his inspiration. And that if he wasn't asleep to get the inspiration, they would all go to Prince.

Oh, that was his motivation. That was his why. Yeah. Because if you don't listen to it, like you said, it'll go to somebody else. Go to somebody else. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And isn't it such a journey about learning like, oh, we're actually worthy of great ideas or we're worthy of great things happening to us or we're worthy of, you know, ideas that, you

you know, we can sell in a week as a hit show. I'm just going to call it a hit show already, even though it's top secret, a hit game show, you know, and it's, yeah, yeah, for sure. I always tell my kids when they were younger, I mean, they're adults now, but when they were young, I would always, in that topic of who am I to have this great idea or, you know, I'm sure a lot of other people have thought about it, whatever, it's like,

If not you, who? Like someone's going to do it. You know, I mean, might as well be you. Yeah, I love that. I am, you know, I think that

There's a whole, I wrote this whole chapter in Worthy that's called, You're Not Crazy, You're Just First. And it kind of talks about this idea that we so often think like, who am I to have great ideas or someone's already done my idea way better than me. Like there's so many people probably listening to us right now that have had these ideas. They're like, yeah, but someone's smarter than me or someone's already done it or this or that. I can't be the first person who thought of it.

Right, right. Or I'm not qualified. I don't have what it takes, like all those kind of things. And I think that, you know, I remember growing up, I always kind of felt like,

you know, like I didn't quite fit in. Like I had these like big ideas and no one in my family got it. And I have five families through adoption. It's a whole, a whole long story, but, and, and just loving, like I would not change a thing. I feel so blessed with the people I was raised around, but I always felt a little different. And I felt like I would have kind of like

you know, what if, you know, what if I could, you know, launch this business or what if I could, you know, travel to this country and solve this or just kind of wild ideas. And for the family I was raised in, they were wild. And I remember they would often kind of call me like, oh, you're crazy or, you know, kind of a term of endearment. And it wasn't until a lot later in life

When I realized, like I had this light bulb moment where I realized like, oh, wait a minute. Like they were always kind of saying you're a little crazy or you're odd or you're strange or you're different. But I'm not crazy. I'm just first. And what I mean by that is like every single one of us, every single one of us,

you know, our DNA is different, right? Our finger, we have unique fingerprints, unique heartbeats, unique tongue prints, unique irises of our eyes. We, no one in the world sees art or beauty the way that you do. And nobody has experiences, emotions the way you do or has the same life experiences. And so there's literally not another single person out there in the entire universe

That's quite like you. And so when you walk into a room or into, you know, uh, a pitch meeting or into a new friendship circle or into anywhere, and maybe someone doesn't quite get you, uh,

it's because there's never been another you before. And what I learned in the journey, for example, building a company when there was a million other people that had made a makeup company, a million other people that have done this idea. But I feel like in life, if you're one of the brave ones, actually willing to be who you freaking are, like full out, soul first, like who you are,

then by definition, if you launch your idea into the world or your podcast or your book or your friendship or anything else, if you do it as who you authentically are, which most people are scared to do, but if you do that, by definition, it's never been done before. It's impossible for your idea to have been done if you do it fully authentically as who you are. And

And when I look back and it's like, oh my gosh, I remember, for example, building a cosmetics, all the retailers in the beginning that would say no. Like I used to spend my Denny's tip money buying like a lipstick in Sephora and going to these department stores. And so when they were telling me no, no, no, no, no, no, no for years, and they were saying to change what I was doing and here's what's selling, do it this way. I would have listened to that.

I could have never, ever taken an idea, but like it was, it was by sticking with this authentic vision, even though it wasn't working for a long time, that it became a billion dollar business. And I think about it with friendships and I think about it, you know, even, you know, you and I having this conversation, any of it, what I know now in life is that like,

We're so tempted to show up as our representative or as the person we think is going to make someone else happy or make them like us or get us the job or get us the second date or whatever it is. But like anytime we show up like as someone who we're not, we're actually creating a barrier of disconnection between us and that person. It's like we're slowly chipping away at our self-worth because we're telling ourselves we're not worthy of, you know, who we are isn't enough anymore.

And it's wild because when we ended up finally after three years of getting like a million no's, we ended up getting one shot on QVC, like a 10 minute window and everything was on the line. And we were either going to make it because we had to sell like $10,000 a minute. We're either going to make it or we were out of business. So it was like everything was on the line after three years of no's and

I remember we hired third-party consultants who are amazing at helping people sell their products in stores and on television. And I just kind of had this vision that wasn't being done at the time, which is like putting real people as models, like every age and shape and size and skin tone and skin challenge. I have rosacea on my cheeks. And I was like, let me show my bare face and show how this product works. And

put models in their 70s and teenage, like all different ages and everyone was mortified. And they wanted me to win, but they were like, no, like, no, that's not like if you have one shot, if you're really, if you really, you know, want a chance at succeeding, which is so hard to do on QVC. Most people get one shot and never come back.

And I just remember getting still and praying about it, freaking out because everything was on the line. And I remember when we talk about divine downloads, I remember these words came to me because I flew out to QVC a week before this. We were three years into the business, by the way, like teetering on bankruptcy. We were under $1,000 in our bank account at the time, which was company and personal. And...

I flew out because we were three years in to hundreds of no's and I flew out a week early before this one big shot on QVC. And I just sat in this rental car, um, in the parking lot. And I knew like staring at the front door of their giant campus in Westchester, Pennsylvania, um,

And I remember like, okay, the next time I walk in this building, I'm either going to walk out completely bankrupt, out of business, or my whole life's going to change. And I remember sitting in that car day after day and like second guessing my own intuition and thinking, well, maybe if I do it their way, because they were all saying, just put this...

a model who has flawless skin, you know, same skin tone and just, which is what was most commonly done by the brands that had succeeded. But my gut was like, no, no, no, you've got to take your makeup off. You got to show every type of person you got it. And I just, I sat there in the car in that, in that struggle with my gut kind of telling me one thing, but all the experts and what had been done and worked before was like telling me a whole other thing.

And I remember there is this divine download where I just got this, like, like these words came to me that said, well, because I know you cannot fake authenticity. I know that whether it's with customers or anybody else, I know that. But I remember these words that came that said, well, authenticity alone doesn't automatically guarantee success in authenticity guarantees failure every time. And I just remember those words. I remember walking into the building and,

And I remember the other thing, because you and I have a mutual friend who I remember watching a bit growing up, watching an episode of Oprah where she wanted the color purple so bad. And she ran around a track praying and crying, singing I Surrender All, like asking God to take it from her because she was so obsessed with wanting that part.

So I was trying everything. So I remember even sitting in that car in the QVC parking lot long before I ever met her, but sitting in that car, like praying, crying. And I started singing that song. I was like, I was like trying everything. Cause I was like, everything's on the line. Like,

you know, every penny we had, everything was on the line in this one moment. And it was like, do I play it safe and go with what everyone's saying to do that works? Even though I feel in my, my, my, my, you know, I pray and get still when I tune into my intuition, I'm supposed to do my brand authentically and show real women. Anyways, it was on the line. And I remember walking in the QVC building and I,

I knew what I had to do, but sometimes when we know what we have to do, it doesn't mean it's an easy thing to do. And I remember walking. So right before I went on air, because QVC is live to 100 million homes.

And, uh, I learned I'd have to sell over $10,000 a minute of product, um, to hit their goal and be invited back. And, uh, you know, we had taken out loans just to be able to get, to pay for the inventory, to get this one chance and literally everything's on the line. And I remember walking in knowing, okay, okay. I'd practiced my, you know, presentation a million times, like in the bathroom at home. And I was like, okay, like the

this is it. Like every time I pray, I get still, I feel like this is what I'm supposed to do. I'm going to go for it. I'm going to be authentic. And I remember walking in Rob and the producers, you have the producer meeting and the host meeting. They say to me, I learn, me,

minutes before going out there, you're not even guaranteed your 10 minutes. So we had funded all the inventory, take out loans, everything, all to try to get this one 10-minute shot. They said, you're not even guaranteed the 10 minutes. They know by the second if people are buying your product or not. And if you're a minute into your sale, a minute or two into the presentation, you're not hitting numbers, you think you still have eight minutes left.

But all of a sudden the clock jumps and you have a minute left and you know you're done. Wow. Yeah. So I learned that. And then I was like, I remember walking into the studio and the host was there. There was like five cameras. And I knew the second the on-air light came on that we were going to be live 200 million homes. And I saw the giant clock. There's like a 10 minute countdown clock. And it was the wildest moment because like, I feel like

So many of our moments come down to like, which one we listened to. Do we listen to all the no's? Because I remember replaying all the no's I'd had for three years up until that point. But then I had that knowing that's like, you're supposed to do what you feel is authentic to your brand, even though it has not worked time and time again. And it was like, I remember making the decision to trust that knowing and that, yeah,

I remember the 10-minute or the red light came on and then the 10-minute countdown clock started. It was like 9.59, 9.58. And I was trying to do this demonstration of our product that I had done like a million times in our bathroom mirror on the back of my wrist, where I show like two of the best-selling competitors and then ours. And I bend my wrist back and forth and I show that like our makeup doesn't crease and crack, which is a big deal. And so I was like, I practiced a million times.

All of a sudden, we're live on air. I start doing this demonstration. And I don't get nervous for television. I had done that in my past career, but everything was on the line for the business. So my hand was like this, shaking rapidly on air. And I was trying to point out that our product is not...

But everything was just shaking. I remember the host grabbed my hand and she pushes it under the podium. And she's like, thank you, sugar. And she took over. And I remember like my bright red bare face before shot because I have really bad rosacea on my skin. That came up on live TV. And I remember like walking over to all the different models, like every age and shape and size and skin tone. And I was literally like calling them beautiful and meaning it from like every ounce of my soul because I was trying to shift everything.

the beauty industry at that point. And that was kind of the whole dream. And I remember we were a few minutes in and like, I didn't know how we were doing, but I knew I wasn't cut yet. So that was huge. And then we got, we got to the one minute mark left. And then I remember the host says live on air. She's like,

The tan shades almost gone. The deep shades almost sold out. And we had four different shades at that point. And, um, right at the 10 minute mark, this giant sold out sign came up across the screen and, uh, we'd sold out of all 6,000 units of our product plus many more. And I started crying on national television and they cut from me and went to like Dyson vacuum or something. Um,

And then I remember my husband comes like rushing through the double door. Now we've been through three years of hundreds and hundreds of no's, right? So he, and we had poured our life savings, which was not much at the time, but like every penny was in this.

And I remember he rushes through the double doors and I got my best friend to model and a bunch of other real women. She starts crying. I'm crying. He comes to the double doors of the studio. So I think he's going to come over and hug me. And he comes over, he puts his fist up in the air and he's like, we're not going bankrupt. And he was so excited. And I was just sobbing. I'm like, real women is...

And that one airing, that was September 2010. And then it turned into five more. We got invited back. So five times that year. And then the next year was 101 shows we did live. And then I started doing over 250 live shows a year, year after year after year on QVC in the next eight years. And so we built what became the biggest beauty brand in their history. It still is to this day.

But why I share that is because we started this conversation talking about divine downloads. They said no to me, Rob. For three years, QVC said, no, you're not the right fit for us or our customers. Everyone else said no. And I kept having that feeling like I'm supposed to be doing this. Every time I would be tempted to quit

I would just get this like feeling that I couldn't shake. And I was like, I made a decision to trust it and to just keep going every time I got knocked down. And so it was just so wild to look back on this and go, oh my gosh, had I not trusted every time I got praying, I pray or get still, had I not trusted that feeling that I was supposed to keep going, I would have quit after five no's or 20 no's or a year or two of no's.

And it was just like, hmm, I think so often...

like at least, you know, my journey so far is like learning. And I think, and I think so many of us, right. Learning to just trust that, that knowing that we get and go with it, no matter who's telling you no, or you're not the right fit, or they don't think you have what it takes, or they're not going to bet on you. It's like making the decision to bet on yourself, I think is such a big, because then, and maybe you've experienced this, you probably have experienced this way more than I have

So many people like cheer you on after you make it. Like, right? Like after you make it, they're like, I've always believed in you. You're my favorite, you know, actor, producer, like all the things. Like, it's like, yeah. So you got to get so good at cheering for yourself during all the different seasons.

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How did you parlay that into the L'Oreal part of your career?

Yeah. So we, you know, we started this, this business, it cosmetics, our living room. And it was like the first several years because we didn't pay anybody. We had no money. We had to kind of like figure out every job on our own. But then we eventually, once we launched on QVC and, uh,

And other stores, we eventually started growing and growing and growing. So all the places that told me no for years, some of them for six years straight told me no. And I kept going back. Like every time we'd get a press placement, they probably thought I was... I mean, I don't know what they thought. But I'd go back to the same people that said no. And it wasn't like, no, come back later. It was like... No.

No. Not for us. Like, we wish you the best. No. I would go back to them. I would try so hard never to take it personal, even though sometimes maybe it was. But I would go back and be like, great news. We just got this, you know, placement in, you know, this magazine or on television. And I was like, one day when we're in your stores, and I would just speak it as if it were true. I'd be like, you know, this product's going to change your life. And I just kept going back and back. So what happened is eventually even some of the retailers that said no for...

year after year after year after year. Eventually, I think they're just like,

if this girl is going to work this hard, she's probably going to work hard, you know, to sell us a lot of product too or something. I don't know what they thought, but we eventually turned all the no's into yeses. And so we had built over a thousand employees at that point. And, um, we started launching in other countries and, uh, cause I was so passionate about, you know, trying to shift culture in the beauty industry, make it way more inclusive. Um, you know, put ads out there that don't make people feel like they're not enough. Um,

all those things. I was so passionate about it. So I wanted to scale it globally. So we launched in Southeast Asia and into Sephora is there and then into Australia. And I quickly learned that

in the beauty industry, not to get like too granular or boring about this, but oh my gosh, the regulatory compliance, the HR laws, right? They're so different in every single country. And so I was like, well, we can do this on our own, but it's going to be pretty slow. And then I started, we

We talk about divine downloads. I started like, I just got this feeling like, what if we partner with L'Oreal? They have teams on the ground in over a hundred countries. And I remember, and by the way, I don't know if you've had this experience, but no one's ever like come to me and said, let's partner or we want to buy you. Or it was like me, like sending stuff out constantly. So I started sending products and letters and emails to L'Oreal and to people at L'Oreal and

And one of their heads of the US, she had done a big speech. When Dave Letterman's top 10 was a big thing, she'd done a big famous speech at Harvard on her top 10 favorite products. So I proceeded, I heard about it and saw it. So I sent her a bunch of products and said like, it was a great speech, except it cosmetics was not one of them. And if she tried them, it would die. Like it was just me just like-

Hustling. Hustling. And eventually we took meetings and a lot of people don't know this, but they actually said no as well to partnering for years. And I just had that feeling it was supposed to be them though. And eventually we started getting interest from a lot of people. Wait, wait, wait. How do you, if you get, if they say no, somebody big like L'Oreal says no. Yeah.

Yeah. At what point do you ask again? Like, like what? Cause I've, I've, I've gone through things like this and I'm currently going through with a product that I'm developing and they're like, somebody says no, but you kind of know they're the partner. Like what gives you, what's the word I'm looking for? What gives you the excuse, the authority, the reason to go back to them when they've already said no. How, how does that work?

Yes, I can tell you how I've done it over and over because I think what happens for most people, our humanness is like, first of all, most of us, when we get a no or rejection, like,

are definitionally assigned to that. A lot of us are subconscious when we realize it, but it's usually something painful. For me, most of my life is like, oh yeah, it means I'm not enough. For a lot of us, it's like, oh, I shouldn't have even tried. And all that kind of keeps so many people stuck and not going after it again. So a couple of things, I have this whole process where I've literally listed out

the meaning, different meanings I want to assign and believe to rejection when it happens in my life. And it happens almost every day, right? Some of us don't get invited to the dinner or we don't get the job we wanted or someone doesn't see our value or someone broke our heart or the person we want to partner our product with says no. I have had to over the years, like I literally have this like

toolbox, I guess you'd call it, where I have definitions I assign to rejection that makes me like fearless about it. That's the first thing. So just a really quick example, just in case anyone listening wants to do this in their own life. Yeah, yeah, yeah, please. Well, I've just found it to be such a game changer, I guess, for me, because the humanness in me or the, you know,

the unworthiness I tempted to go back to often, I'll get rejected and I'll think those things, right? And I've talked to like groups of people before who say, you know, the first thought they have when they get rejected. I guess everyone listening to us right now, if you imagine yourself getting rejected or hearing no or failing at something, think about the first thought you have, like without thinking about it.

And for a lot of people, that first thought is something like, oh, I shouldn't have tried. I don't have what it takes. I'm not enough. Maybe I'm unqualified. I'm stupid. Who am I to do this? And we don't say those things out loud, but we think those things. And that is actually like our current definition of rejection and failure. It's like the meaning we attach to without knowing it. And when we attach a meaning that's painful like that,

We're so much more likely to stay stuck, to not go for it, to not go back and go again, to not keep going after it, to not get on the dating app and start dating, to not ask other adults if they want to be friends. Like we just don't, right? To not send our manuscript out there and we just stay stuck. And so...

The biggest tool I think around that that's really helped me is, you know, writing out, literally writing out definitions to rejection or failure that I believe are true. You have to believe them in your soul that they're true. And then every time you get rejected or fail, instead of

going back to that default, like, oh, I'm not enough, like catching that and replacing it with that meaning you're going to choose to believe because you know it's true. And so just like some quick examples for me, I remember one time after like a million no's, I was just like crying myself to sleep. And I remember

remember, I decided to Google every person that I just admire most, whether it's because they've helped heal humanity or they've done incredible things in business or they're incredible thought leaders. And it's like every single person I read about has had a million rejections or failures along the way. They're just the brave ones willing to keep going anyway. So

And I remember that day I wrote out, rejection does not mean I'm not enough. It's actually a victory because it means I'm one of the brave ones, like, willing to keep going for it. Like, I'm not going to sit on the sidelines of life going, oh, someone told me no once. Like, I am going to play full out. I'm going to, you know, follow my face. But like, I'm one of the brave ones. And so I started writing.

literally telling myself that every time I got rejected. And then I sort of built these definitions. I believe and know to be true. Like I believe that is true. I believe when you get rejected, it's actually a victory because it's a reminder. You're one of the few, one of the brave ones that's willing to go for it. And another one is like rejections, God's protection.

Some people will say rejection is the universe's protection. Rejection is redirection. There's so many of them I'll tell myself and I'll have that trust, right? My favorite one is,

I use this one almost every day because I think we're often in situations, you know, where our feelings get hurt or someone, you know, doesn't see our value or we have like a past heartbreak or somebody said something to us in our childhood that we still remember that sticks with us. And so this one I use almost every single day. Like I, something happens, right? Let's say I didn't get invited to the party or the friend didn't, whatever it is, doesn't matter what it is. The business thing goes bad, whatever it is.

I will literally, Rob, I will literally, when I get tempted to feel like, oh, I'm not enough, I don't have what it takes, I will stop that really fast. And I will imagine my creator saying to me, oh, you weren't rejected. I hid your value from them because they're not assigned to your destiny.

And I will believe it. Like I believe God will block our value for people who are not assigned to our destiny. And so those new meanings, like it helps me become more fearless. And I literally, I mean, listen,

this is a conversation for another time or us in Monsido at some point. But like, I have a million issues in my life I'm working on, but one of them is not rejection. Like I am fearless with rejection. And when it happens in, you know, personal situations, I believe that

that I believe God blocks our value from people if they're not assigned to our destiny. And I just lean on that and trust it. And then it helps it not take root because when we have, a lot of us have like painful rejections or failures in the past and

and that can shake our confidence but when we let them take root and we start actually believing subconsciously like we're a reject or we're a failure then that's when it impacts our identity and our self-worth and our self-worth becomes our ceiling in almost everything right because we don't become what we want we become what we believe what we believe we're worthy of and so like

I've done a lot of work. It's why I wrote the book worthy. Why I just launched, just launched the Jamie Curley, my show podcast. It's all about like, how do you revel, which I'd love to have you on by the way. Um,

And we've had a couple of mutual friends that have been the first guests. So that's been exciting. But it's like, how do you raise your self-worth? I think is one of the biggest things. So that is the first part of this very long answer. The second part is in your situation, you have a feeling that that is the perfect partner and they haven't said yes yet. So I've had that happen so many times.

And in almost every time, it's ended up turning into a yes. And I don't know if this is just me, but my experience is it's rarely a yes the first time.

And it's not just been retailers wanting to partner my product. It's, you know, we eventually partnered with private equity four years in. But they all said no forever. It was so many people saying no. And I believe so much in divine timing. Yeah.

I really, really do. And QVC, even though they had said no for three years and they said, you're not the right fit for us or our customers. And it wasn't like a no come back later. It was a no, no. And then we eventually got that one shot.

three years later. And I look back now and even though all those no's, I wish that they had happened sooner. I'd always wish that yes, this had happened sooner. When I look back, I'm like, oh my gosh, what I didn't know was like, we were not operationally sophisticated enough to be able to like deliver at those high volumes of inventory and not like go under. There were so many things where I'm like, okay, like,

I always look back at moments and I'm like, okay, I trust divine timing. So my approach to like a situation you're describing where it's like you send your product and you know that person's supposed to be your partner and they're saying no. My approach to that, this is of any value, it's kind of what I've done over and over and over. No, this is what I want to hear. Okay. I literally make the decision

that every interaction I have with them is in the voice of this, of if it's actually a hundred percent going to happen without a shadow of a doubt. So all the times I speak to that person that said no in, in, in a business exchange, I might as well. One day when we are partners, here's why it's going to be best partnership of your entire career. And, and then any little thing that happens, I keep updating them on it, keep updating on them. And,

You know, I think that, I think that,

I update them on stuff as if I'm unfazed by it. And sometimes it takes someone else wanting to partner with you for that partner to then want to partner with you. Do you know what I mean? Like that's what happened with L'Oreal, right? L'Oreal said no for a number of years. And then we started getting interest from other people. And then L'Oreal made like this incredible offer to buy our company that I could have never in a million years dreamed of. But then all of a sudden,

We got bigger offers from other people. So after years and years and years of me only hearing the word no from everybody,

when L'Oreal made us that offer, but all of a sudden we're getting bigger offers everywhere. It was the first time ever I actually said no to L'Oreal. And I didn't even know how to say no. But what was amazing was they came back with a way bigger offer. So they paid $1.2 billion cash for the business we started in our living room. And when I look back at it, like...

So many things, Rob. Like, oh my gosh, like had they, you know, wanted to be partners three years earlier, we probably would have sold for 10% of that or less or, you know what I mean? Like with probably very different terms. Yeah, that's a really good point. That's a really good point. Where you're from completely shapes who you are. If you're looking for change or rethinking the place, your family will call home

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Learn more at 1-844-COSENTIX or cosentix.com slash Cindy. Well, and I think like, I just have, I keep every, every day, I think this will be for the rest of my life. I work so hard to try and trust divine timing. Um,

and try to trust. And everyone has different belief systems. Some people believe, okay, if they believe the universe has their back, then they believe the universe will block their value from people when they're not assigned to their destiny, right? Like,

But having that divine trust, I think is so important because what I've learned is somebody's no or a bunch of people's no is no indication of if your product is going to succeed. It's no indication of if it's going to be huge and a huge success or not. And I've had this play out so many times. I remember a couple years into our business when we were really close to bankrupt. There is a potential investor at a big private equity firm. And

And they had gotten a hold of our product. And I was like, oh my gosh, like they're very well known for taking like even pre-revenue brands and making them products we buy in stores and all that. And we started doing all these meetings. And I remember telling my husband, I'm like, oh my gosh, they invest in

then A, we're not going to go bankrupt. B, maybe they can use their leverage to get us in all these retailers that keep saying no. I was so excited. I thought it was going to be like the saving grace. We did meeting after meeting. We did meeting after meeting after meeting. We flew up for the final meeting. And at the very end of the presentation, I presented like the whole future product pipeline, all the things.

The very end of it. And by the way, I was praying so hard that this happens. Like I was not even trusting divine anything. I was just trying to tell God what I wanted to happen. I've been there. Yeah, yeah. 100%. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, for sure. And in the very end of the meeting, all of the team was there. The head guy and their team's amazing. The head guy was like three feet from me. My husband was on the other side.

And he says to me, congratulations. Like you should be so proud. This is a really, really great product. But it's a no, we're going to pass on investing in IT Cosmetics. And I remember at that point, I was just like,

Like so devastated, but I'd heard no so many times. And I said to him, I said, can you tell me why? Because feedback is usually a gift. And he says, he got really quiet and he says, do you want me to be really honest with you?

And I was like, yes, please. And I just remember his face because he got really, really quiet. And then I remember the moment his lips started moving. And he says to me, he's like three feet from me. And he says, I just don't think women will buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight.

And when he said those words to me, I actually never got angry, but it was almost like I remember this lifetime of self-doubt and body doubt. I felt like it flooded my body all at once. But here's what I want to call out. When he said those words to me, I'll never forget this moment. I got this feeling in my gut so strong that said he's wrong. I felt it. I felt like he's wrong, that knowing that.

And, uh, I never got angry at him, but after that, cause all he's doing, like all he's doing is taking his whole set of beliefs and going, I actually don't think you can make me money. So it was not personal. He was doing the best he could. Right. So here's the thing though, uh, and listen, I left that meeting, cried my eyes out in the car.

for the next, I didn't hear from him again for six more years. Um, and in that six year window, I remember so many times like those words replay and I literally imagined myself like turning the volume down on him and turning the volume up on that, on that feeling I felt that day, that knowing, um, that he's wrong. And, uh,

Six years later, the day that L'Oreal bought my company, because they're a public company, they had to announce the purchase price everywhere. So nobody knew we were doing well. They thought like, okay, they're probably doing okay or whatever. But anyways, they announced the deal and it was homepage of the Wall Street Journal online. It was

everywhere. And I remember that was the first time I heard from him, that investor, in six years. And what did he say? So he says, congratulations on the L'Oreal deal. I was wrong, is what he said. And I remember, and I just like, so first of all,

Do you remember the movie Pretty Woman? Of course. Where like they won't help her in the store. Yes, of course. And then she goes back. So what I wanted to say to him was like big mistake. Like huge, huge. I could give you over a billion reasons why. It was a huge mistake. But I didn't. I kept it really classy. I thanked him. I wouldn't have wanted to be him.

But here's my point in the story is like, oh my gosh, Rob, had he believed in me back then,

Like I was so desperate at that time. I would have given him the majority of the company for probably no money. Like I was just trying to stay alive and go, how can I get retail distribution? And everyone's been saying no for years. And it's like, oh my gosh, rejection is God's protection. I do believe my value is blocked from him because he was not assigned to my destiny in that moment. And like,

Who knows how I would have changed over the years if that was my main partner with the controlling share of my company. Who knows if I could have stayed authentic, all the things. And so it's like, okay, even though that no was painful, even though I wanted it to happen so bad, even though I was trying to tell God what I wanted to happen, even though all the things. And at any moment in the six years, if he would have came back to me and said, oh, you know what? I think we want to invest. I probably would have done it.

And it's like, thank God he did not see my value. And thank God he said no and all the other things. And so I just look back at so many moments like that. And they suck when you're going through them and you're like, I just want this to be my partner now. And I want this to, and I believe in this so strongly. But I just like,

now and for the rest of my life, just try to get so good at just like trusting that divine timing and not just sitting around trusting it, but actually like trying to make it happen the whole time too, like sending out, you know, like, so I will go back to a partner that said no, if my gut tells me they're supposed to be the right one, I'll keep going back. I do not, I, yeah, it's always really worked out well for me. And I've never kind of,

taken, I've tried to take my own perceived embarrassment or anything else about, or seeming desperate or anything else. And, and instead of focusing on that, you know, for your product that you're sharing with a partner, I think it's like, if you make it, if you do whatever you can to make it not about you,

And then you make it like, oh my gosh, I am robbing the world of this incredible product. If I don't do everything I can to get it to them,

That it's like, if that's the focus versus like, what if this partner judges me for going back again and again? Am I going to seem desperate? Because most people won't start things and they won't put it out there and they won't go back to the person that said no again and again and again because they're embarrassed of other people seeing them start small. Or in your case, you're like...

so successful, legend, icon, all the things. So the humanness in us would be like, oh, but

you know, what will they say or think if I keep going back after they said no. That's right. You put your finger right on it. So I think if you shift out of that and be like, what's your, you know, like focus on like your deep why for your product and why the world needs it, why the goodness of it needs to be multiplied through a great partnership and like be so focused on that, then, then like, then how,

how then the you-ness of it doesn't like,

The you-ness doesn't matter when it's not about you. Very good advice. I do that a lot too with stuff. Yeah. Very, very good. Okay. I have so much actionable intel, as they say, in this conversation. This was great. Thank you so much for coming on. This was amazing. Your book is fantastic. Worthy. How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life is currently out and I'm going to get it and highlight it.

And give it to my wife, by the way, who has a business and could use that advice. Thank you so much. You were great. Thanks for coming on. Oh my gosh. Well, thank you so much. I'm super, super grateful. It's such a great conversation. I've never had a conversation go there. So thank you for that. That was fun. I hope it adds value to everyone listening. For sure. Thank you. Thank you so much. What an amazing story.

Really just, it gives you inspiration and hope that anybody out there doing anything can make anything happen. Thank you for listening to Literally. We will be back next week. Don't forget to give us a good review on Apple and tell friends and bring more people into our tent because we love having you and I'll see you next time.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Sean Doherty, with help from associate producer Sarah Begar and research by Alyssa Grau. Engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel. Our executive producers are Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Nick Liao, Adam Sachs, and Jeff Ross for Team Coco, and Colin Anderson for Stitcher. Booking by Deirdre Dodd. Music by Devin Bryant. Sports and culture by Devin Bryant.

Special thanks to Hidden City Studios. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time on Literally.

I'm Cindy Lauper with fellow Cosentix advocate, Chef Michelle Bernstein. We'll share our experiences with plaque psoriasis, with psoriatic arthritis, and Dr. Panico will talk about the possible connection. Cosentix Secukenumab is prescribed for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, 300 milligram dose, and adults with active psoriatic arthritis, 150 milligram dose. Don't use if you're allergic to Cosentix. Before starting, get checked for TB.

Serious allergic reactions, severe skin reactions that look like eczema, and an increased risk of infections, some fatal, have occurred. It may lower your ability to fight infections, so tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches, or cough, how to vaccine or plan to, or if IBD symptoms develop or worsen. Learn more at 1-844-COSENTIX or cosentix.com slash Cindy.

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