Brian Grazer: Energy Oriented
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That's 15% off at SaatchiArt.com. S-A-A-T-C-H-I-Art.com. Ever wish your favorite TV show had twice as many episodes? Everyone knows that feeling. And so does Discover. Everyone wants more of their favorites. That's why Discover doubles another favorite thing. Cash back.

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Hey, everybody. Welcome to Literally. It's me, your buddy, Robbie Lowe. I'm really excited today because my super good new friend, Brian Grazer, I mean, he's a legend. I mean, he's produced television shows like Sports Night, Felicity, Arrested Development, 24, Empire. He has 50 Oscar nominations for everything from A Beautiful Mind, Splash, to American Gangster, Apollo 13. I mean...

This guy is on the Mount Rushmore of Hollywood, but he is one of the kindest, nicest guys I know, and I never can get enough of his knowledge and wisdom. So I'm excited to share that with you guys. Let's bring him on. What is on the Brian Grazer agenda today? Because you live the most interesting life of almost...

Anybody. If I could trade places with people, there aren't that many. But I think I would have a very good time living your life.

I'd trade looks with you right away. I'd like to look like you. Would you? Yeah. What would you do differently? I don't know. What would you do? Go to Starbucks and wink at people? What would happen? I'd go to all the restaurants. I'd go to all the restaurants. I wouldn't even have reservations. I'd just go in, walk around. That's what you think it is? That's it? Yeah. Grocery stores, stuff like that. No, I just think I'd probably do what you do.

Cruise around, make money, flirt with people. Men, women, animals. Yeah, everything. You're friendly. I'm a friendly guy. Okay, so wait. So walk me through your day. What have you... Okay. Because I know you've probably done more interesting stuff already than anybody. Oh, God. Well, first, I dread working out, but I get up early, work out, do that whole little exercise. At 6.30, if...

I'm already working out and I checked the stock market. I want to see what my friends' moods are going to be. God, I'm really being honest. I swear that is true. Wow. I have a lot of friends that are CEOs and I want to know what their mood is today. That's so smart. Oh, wow. Thanks.

Well, by the way, as far as that, it goes in the same category as biorhythms. There's certain times I call certain people. There's certain times I try to sell movies and television shows. Obviously, selling something, trying to get money, Friday is not the day to do that.

By the way, that's why we have this day together. We're not trying to do either one of those things. We're not trying to sell. We're not trying to score anything. We're just scoring love between each other. Two brothers. Two brothers. So you literally will go like, you're like, oh, I'm not taking anything to such and such Netflix or Disney today because the stock's down. I'm going to just hold off. Really? Yeah.

Or I storm the gates. If it's up. If it's up. I know they're feeling flush. That's when I make the calls. That's when I do stuff like that. So it's just one of the variables. Guys and gals listening to me, we'll get to it. But Brian Grazer has made great movies, great TV shows. We're going to go through the list because I was going through the list last night and it's just

It's insane. But also, you've done more with it. Like, there's getting success and then there's doing something with it. Oh, thank you. You know what I mean? And you're, I think we bond because we're both super curious. Yes. And we like eclectic people and worldviews and experiences. And you and I have been bloggers.

blessed to travel together to some really interesting locations and have great discussions. But you're like me in that that stuff doesn't happen by accident. You have to go out of your way. You have to always be disrupting your comfort zone.

In fact, I feel more comfortable in a disrupted comfort zone. I feel more comfortable being uncomfortable because I feel like I'm doing something. I feel like I'm actively doing something. I'm actively learning something. I'm actively challenging myself. And often that leads to relationships that where you feel like...

you know, not as deep as a soulmate, but you're feeling somebody else's heart. You're making a deep connection. And I get a tremendous amount of joy out of and satisfaction out of reaching somebody or having mutual connection

a mutual connection with somebody, as I've had with you. And I think it sort of began on these boat trips that we periodically take. And we ended up in the sauna together a few times and just chit-chat and, you know, share our stories. That's right.

Yeah, it's true. It's been a great gift for me to get to know you because, again, I learned so much from you. And one of the things that people ask what a producer does all the time, particularly civilians, you know, people who are not in the business. And as you know,

I mean, it's such a huge catch. I mean, there's a thousand different types of producers. But one of the things that I didn't really fully realize about you is that you are also an idea producer. I believe you told me, correct me if I'm wrong, that the idea of Splash was yours. Yes. So it was actually my idea. And then I wrote a couple of drafts of that script. Jesus.

And then I had really good writers rewrite me, Lowell Gantz and Bob Lou Mandel. And we ended up getting nominated for an Oscar on that. But it was just, it was, I had a unique experience when I was 25 years old and produced my first movie. And I had this flashpoint moment where

A girl that went to USC and was the most popular girl at USC, most sought after, would never speak to me because I was just me. And all of a sudden, I'm on my set as the producer and she's in the crowd as an actress with one line.

And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, she runs around the camera to say, Brian, how would you like to go out tonight? And I thought, wow, you never said that before. I didn't say that. I said, sure, let's do it. And so I thought to myself, it's going to be very hard.

in Hollywood, or even Los Angeles for that matter, to find a girl that you could have real true love with in a town that is seemingly very conditional. And how would I detect that? And if I did find a girl like that, where would she be? And I thought she wouldn't be in the city of Los Angeles, and she wouldn't be here, wouldn't be in New York. But I came to conclude that if I had to find what that girl...

which that girl would be, that dream girl. And then I superimpose this mythological image on her as being a mermaid. That would make her have superpowers, which I like when women have superpowers. And it also would make her much more unattainable. So I'd have a third act in this movie. And that's how that movie came about, Splash, with Tom Hanks.

And I've had several other movie ideas, including Liar Liar with Jim Carrey and Night Shift with Michael Keaton. Tell me about Liar Liar. Is that where you just, what if, is it just as simple as one day you have a, the light bulb goes on and you go, what if somebody was incapable of lying? Is it just that simple? It's pretty simple. It was actually more of, what if you built your life, you know, you built your life and

on an ongoing series of little lies. And all of those little lies start to add up and they change the way you conduct your life. They change the way you're perceived, et cetera, et cetera. And I thought, what if that person, who's a pretty good person, but he just happens to tell an endless stream of white lies. All of a sudden, all those spinning plates crash to the ground.

You can't tell any more lies. No more. And what would that look like? And that's the story. See, you're so creative that you're developing these ideas. Not developing, coming up with them. It's so amazing to me. I guess I just assumed you were like so many other really successful producers. You know, Dick Zanuck comes to mind. Oh, yeah. And, you know, I mean...

uh, uh, who, who else is out there? I mean, you know, we all know who they are and they're great, but, but they're not writing and coming up with this stuff. It's kind of amazing. Yeah. For the most part, they don't, but it was just my way of getting into the business and surviving. And I found that, that, um, I had a very active imagination as I still do. And I would write these ideas down and, and many of them became the foundational, uh,

foundational idea for the birth of a movie or television show. So your studio that you started with your longtime collaborator, Ron Howard, it's called Imagine. I have to get this piece of paper because this is so nuts because I've been toiling away in television now for quite a while. And you're doing great in television though. TV has been very, very good to me. All right. Yeah.

It sure has. Okay, so check this out, y'all. Imagine Entertainment has produced many popular TV series, including Sports Night, Felicity, Arrested Development, 24, Friday Night Lights, Parenthood, Empire. Holy shit.

It's all I have to say. That's all I have to say. Because there are, okay. I mean, I could talk, I could do a podcast about each one of these. I think Arrested Development is maybe the funniest show ever. The notion that that's a network television show, Arrested Development is insane. It is my favorite, favorite. Thank you. 24? I mean...

Come on. Tick, tick, tick. Dude, tick, tick, tick. When they go to the boxes and that doink, doink, doink, doink, doink, that sound effect. Yeah, that was good. Oh, I used to have that ringtone. I used to have the... Oh, yeah. I had that. I made sure I had that on my phone. Chloe, get me the president. I used to fantasize that if I was Kiefer Sutherland, eventually you could just do your whole season in front of a green screen.

Because you're in the same outfit, you never have to change your wardrobe. You never go to the bathroom. Never go to the bathroom. Don't eat. And you don't eat. And you could just swing, get me the present. You don't understand. It's all happening. Whatever, just like. Then you're running. Then just running. Yeah. And Sports Night, Aaron Sorkin's first TV series. Yeah. You know, as a West Wing veteran and working with Aaron, what was your experience like

With that, because I will tell you, when we started West Wing, Aaron was still doing Sports Night. Oh, my God. I didn't know that. How about this? Aaron Sorkin, on the first year of West Wing, wrote 22 episodes of Sports Night and 22 episodes of the West Wing himself. Yeah, he has tremendous capability, doesn't he? I want to say that again, for any writers out there,

22 episodes of Sports Night. Wow. 22 episodes of the West Wing in the same year. I know. He's a dynamo. For me, of course, I was the producer, but I really felt it would be more appropriate to say I was the passenger on that one.

Yeah, sometimes that's so weird. He was driving a Formula One race car, and I was in the passenger seat going, oh my God! He's really brilliant. And you were so brilliant, by the way, in your show, West Wing. I really wish he would have pitched me that idea too. Right? Oh my God, that show was tremendous. By the way, during COVID...

So many of my friends and myself, we watched, revisited West Wing because we wanted to get back to real values and real presidents and role models. And that show had all of that. And when things were important, they were actually important. There was no fake news in the day. It was all pretty much driven by fact and truth. And people would debate on a debate stage. Yeah.

on a factual, not like, well, this number says that. That number is not true. Well, that's a bad statistic. Well, no, it's not. It's a real, it's like they could engage philosophically, intellectually. Yeah. Talk about character, talk about worldviews. And we made a show about it and you believed it. I don't, if the West Wing was made today, I think people would

Be like, well, it's not a drama and it's not a comedy. It's more of a fantasy. Yeah. Yeah. It would be an entirely different show for sure. Yes.

All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I'll never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel.

God, we both were in show or part of shows that had very strong political overtones, right? I mean, yeah. 24 was, I mean. Hugely political. Hugely. When Kiefer would torture people to get information on that show. Yes. And what I loved about 24 was like, you didn't try to have it both ways.

It was like, and the same with the West Wing is like, you have to pick a side. West Wing was, okay, we're picking a side where it's a Democratic president. It's got to be Republican or Democrat. They chose Democrat. And so we're doubling down. We're not going to try to have it both ways because that's not how it goes. 24, Kiefer would get someone, there'd be a bomb. He wouldn't know where it was and he would torture the shit out of them. Yeah.

He's very good at that. And it was great because you go, oh, yeah, this feels authentic to me. We're not like backing off. Like it's cruel and it's gnarly. And you guys did not flinch. And I also remember them being sort of think pieces about 24 that weren't happy with it. No, I know.

Well, it was kind of prescient, wasn't it? Yes. I mean, it really operated on what's going to happen. And oddly, what was going to happen often intersected with the release of these episodes.

It was pretty amazing. Also, the show, I mean, for me, it was a wish fulfillment show because I think we all, as Americans, are very proud to be Americans and enjoy the liberties of the Constitution. However, we built a lot of red tape into our system. So it disabled somebody like Jack Bauer that's trying to do good from actually killing and getting bad guys.

And so he became this character that said, I don't care about the rules. I'm at CTU. I'm going to kick your ass, you know? And it was just, you know, and create justice, essentially. It's such a great part, and Kiefer's so good in it. I remember driving down, I believe it was Melrose, and Kiefer, who I'd known off and on throughout the years, kind of coming up together.

but I hadn't seen him in a long time. And he pulled up and we started talking and West Wing had just come out and he was saying how much he liked it. And he was like, how do you like it? I've seen what it's done for you. It's so great. I think I'm going to go do a TV show. I'm going to meet them right now. And he was on his way to talk to you guys about 24. Oh my God. That's wild. Yeah, it was super cool. Eight mile.

Yes. Eight mile. I made movies. I started as a movie producer. Eight mile. Okay. Yeah.

Eminem, Lose Yourself, Curtis Hanson, who I worked with on Bad Influence. Did he direct that? He directed Bad Influence. How was he on that? He was great. Oh, good. He was great. He was fantastic. Yeah, good. And it was obviously post him directing, pre him directing L.A. Confidential.

Yes. I've started more directors on great careers who never called me again. I have a really, really, I have a really good list. I really, truly do. It's a list. I give them the leg up and then they move on to the next. You work for Steven Soderbergh?

I did. I work with Soderbergh. I didn't start Steven. He's one of the few that came to me. Soderbergh, Coppola, Zemeckis. I mean, there's been a bunch of them. Those are great directors. Yeah. I've learned a lot from them. By the way, Ed Zwick, who I'm going to have on the show, he's written a book. It's amazing. You're going to love this book on directing and navigating Hollywood.

Oh, I'd like to read that. In the meantime, I think you better read my book first. It's called A Curious Mind, The Secret to a Bigger Life. It's out.

It was a New York Times bestseller, but now it's been reimagined to accommodate today our changing world. Tell me all about it. I was going to get to it, but tell me all about it, the reimagining part in particular. Well, what happened is I wrote two books. One was The Curious Mind, The Secret to a Bigger Life, and the other one was several years later, and that was called Face to Face, The Art of Human Connection.

And that came about because I realized that all of these very rich and interesting conversations with hundreds of Nobel laureates, presidents, diplomats, martial artists, the father of the hydrogen bomb, Edward Teller, all of these people who shared so much of themselves with me, Princess Di, they wouldn't have done that unless I had really connected with them. They would just

disengage. So I've realized that face-to-face is essential in my life, getting these interviews and getting people to really share themselves, share their soul with me, and where I could gather these insights and, of course, reciprocate to the extent that they were interested. And without being face-to-face,

you're not able to sort of connect the human Wi-Fi that causes us to connect to each other's mind, body, and soul. So that's what that book is about. So now I've edited some things out of each. I've merged them together. And then I've added more to this book. And it's out, this Curious, it's still called A Curious Mind. Holy moly, that's...

That's what that is. So it's instructional as to how, and it teaches people how you can do this. I mean, I did it for 10 years where I had absolutely no power or identity. I was just, just a guy getting out of college. And, um,

I didn't have the credentials that I currently have. And you just, it gives you, it's an instructional manual with great stories that show how to be resourceful and meet the people you want to meet and have a competitive advantage in life and in business. Listen, I can't think of anybody more qualified to write that book than you. And again, I want to emphasize that.

to people listening, you had these meetings with no agenda other than learning. It's not like you had a movie you were trying to set up or you thought maybe this guy could be money. No. And I think that's a huge part of it. That's what made it work. Yes. Yes. I wasn't trying to commercialize it in any way. And there was never going to be an ask. There was, they knew,

Brian is not going to ask for anything. I'm not going to ask for a job. I'm going to ask for money. I'm not asking for anything. It's really just about a pure human connection, one-on-one. It was never with food. It was always, I don't want any, never food. No, I don't want to be distracted by food.

by waiters and people. I didn't want our body chemistry to change. You know, if somebody needed some fruit or something like that, of course, or a snack, but it wasn't, we weren't sharing food together. That's so interesting. What other, I mean, I know it's all in the book and I'm getting it immediately, but what other, because I would have, I would have, I would have not done that. That makes perfect sense. It does. It

lunches are, it's not where you want to do it. What, at times of day, what else you got? And I never with anybody else. It was, oh, I had so many friends and people say, oh, let me be part of this. Let's turn it into a pilot or an event, or I didn't want to do anything like that. I don't want to do it with another person in the room. I'm not going to record it.

Now, sometimes I periodically ask somebody, can I record the audio? Because what's being said is so invaluable, quite frankly. So no other people can be around...

It's always in an office. I'm happy to go to their office. I'm happy to fly to Boston to meet the AIDS scientist, the first earliest AIDS scientist. I'm happy to fly to Moscow to meet some very interesting people. I was happy to meet Fidel Castro in Havana. So I will do kind of anything and everything to meet and accommodate somebody that I'm very motivated to meet. Now,

Zoom is killing all of that. But actually, you know what? Actually, counterintuitively, Zoom makes what you're saying even more true and even more valuable, right? True, yes. I mean, with Zoom, you can learn a subject in the same way you could almost... It's kind of the same way you would learn it on YouTube. But there's no body language. There's no...

there's no nuance that's involved there's not a lot of laughter you know not a lot of things are funny on zoom it's much more and it's much more an antiseptic tool for communication and it has high functionality it's just not going to birth a relationship it's not going to birth your greatest date ever and i've always felt like

My goal was to create the best date for both of us every time I had a meeting. Listen, part of being a producer and why you're so great is that is an essential component, no matter what type of producer you are, is that you can create the big tent or the intimate tent where everybody's going to have the time of their lives. Right.

I mean, look, Rob, you've worked with these great directors and you've obviously learned so much by being with them and have different takeaways with all of them. I mean, if you were going to, if you had a project and you were in charge of picking that director, you would insist on meeting. You would want to meet, right? Yes. To feel their energy, right?

Energy is essential. It's an essential ingredient in chemistry. Do you ever, you probably clearly are so far beyond this, but do you ever, I get into this thing where I get locked in sometimes to self-doubt about

in some areas of my life, I trust my instincts implicitly so much so that I don't even, I'm not even aware that there's a choice being made. That's, and that's when I'm created. Like when I'm writing, when I'm,

acting, when I'm painting, when I'm on stage, if I'm telling a joke, all that stuff. It just, I've long since transitioned beyond that. But in life, real life, you meet somebody and you go, I really like that person. You go, the fuck? You don't even know them. Or conversely,

More often, he's like, that person is not for me. And then I beat myself up. I go, who are you to say, to make a judgment? You don't know them. And like, so, but what you're telling me is energy. Energy. Is there, and you can make snap judgments. I think so. I do.

See, I knew you did. I do, and I don't regret it ever. See, that's what I'm saying. You're more evolved than I am. You are. I don't know about that. No, no, you are. But I feel really comfortable with that. I've had the most success at discovering actors, discovering writers, friendships. I'm pretty, I'm very energy oriented. What is that person's aura? What does it feel like?

I don't analyze it. It just enters me. Yes. So I'm good with it. I might regret a decision on something, but it won't be about the person. So your batting average is good.

It feels good to me. Yes. Yes. Yeah, it is good. I even have a rule that, and you can only do this through energy and some data, supporting data, but I won't make a movie with a director if I imagine, imagine that this will end badly. So I think of...

From the title to the first sentence to the last sentence of the movie and what that's like departing from that, you know, when it all wraps that day. I imagine, fantasize or imagine what that all looks and feels like.

And if I feel as though it's going to end badly, where that, you know, badly, the director is going to say some bad things or we're going to fight too much or disagree too much or whatever it is. If I feel like it's going to end badly, I don't do it. I just don't do it. And you also don't say, when you imagine that, go,

You're imagining things. I don't do that. I don't do that. I don't second guess and go, I'm imagining things. See, that's the thing. That's what I got to get over. I do. I need to get my shit together. Well, I don't know. You're doing pretty well. I have had... That is funny though. You're imagining things. But no, I have... But again, it's not in my professional life. Perfect.

Professional life, you feel you have more certainty in that. I do. Okay, good. I do. I do for sure. That makes sense. Good. So tell me about, how's your meditation going, by the way? Oh, chanting or meditation? See, that's right. You're chanting too. Yeah. Didn't we, we learned that one, didn't we? Okay. So basically this, I do meditation. I do TM. Me too. Really what I should, I should, you do too? Yes. Okay.

We talked about that. Yes. You do it every day? No. I don't either. My problem is I'm afraid that I'm, what is that phrase that I always bungle? I am letting the perfect become the enemy of the good because I don't do it every day. Twice a day, as you're supposed to. Twice a day. You're supposed to do it twice a day. For 20 minutes that I feel, oh, well, then I'm not going to do it at all.

And so... Because I'm not perfect. Yeah. I don't like to not be perfect about shit. Yeah. I'm not good at it. So I need to get over it. It's more like you know you're supposed to do it this long to have it really work. And you just...

I don't know. For me, I just can't get myself to do it. It's not that I have no time. Everyone has at least 20 minutes in the daytime. And often you have 40 minutes. I mean, I'm told that Jerry Seinfeld does 40 minutes and maybe Tom Hanks does. They're pretty busy people. And there's so many more. But I was recently with a friend that I really like a lot. And his wife...

who is a joy to be around, and she is Buddhist. And I thought, well, what does that mean? I know we know the same person. And she started to tell me what it means. And I just loved her energy so much. I thought these two things must work together, Buddhism and her sort of constant sense of joy. And she introduced me to chanting. And I still do chant. I'm really...

find it very different than TM because you're saying words and it's energy coming out of your mouth. It's not internal like as TM is. I think it's pretty spectacular. I would like to try that. You sure can right there where you're in your hometown. I know. I got to get it together. I know exactly who to call. I know the person to call to get this happening. But see, that's the thing is, again, we're curious. Yeah. Like, I'll try that. That

That sounds good to me. Yeah, try it once. Because part of me also feels like I don't want to try it. That's why I'm going to try it. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I do know. 80% of me feels like that's really a good idea. Yeah. And the other percent goes, ew, you don't want to do that. Trying it would be okay. Try it with them. Hold the beads. Put them in your hand the way you're supposed to. Crunch them around. Try it once. See if you like it. I think that's good.

All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel.

Qualifying plan required. Wi-Fi were available on select U.S. airlines. Deposit and Hilton Honors membership required for 15% discount terms and conditions apply. Tell me about where you think the, where entertainment is headed. Give me your state of the union. I know that's a really broad, big, it's a very big ask. I understand that. But again- I know what I want to try to do. I want to-

I've done this pretty well in my career, but I want to do it better than I've done. And I'll tell you why, what it is and for what reasons. I want to work on movie projects that I have passion towards, like obsessive passion.

And I, of course, did that with The Mermaid movie, and I did it with American Gangster or Apollo 13 or certainly A Beautiful Mind because those movies had, beyond just being, I think, entertaining and compelling, they had a heartbeat or a theme that I believed in. Mental disability, beautiful mind. I won't go through the movies, but try to do

things that I'm deeply passionate about. Now, why? Because I think when I do something that I'm deeply passionate about, it has a greater chance of penetrating and permeating the greater culture.

And that has always been an objective of mine. I'm a populist filmmaker. I don't make art films. I make movies that might artisan, but they are not art films. Yes. So I really want the fatter part of the bell curve to watch and experience the movies that I make. And so therefore, they have to be good movies.

And they have to be virtuous. Either they have to be funny if they're comedies. They can't just be fake funny.

a new movie coming out that is called Kenny Kane Lane starring Eddie Murphy. I hope that pleases people. I think it's a unifier. I think we're living in a country and a world right now that needs to be unified, that might need some escapism. I mean, I know I'd like to laugh. I know that I'd like to enter another world, and I'm hoping and believing others will too. And

So basically you have to do work on things that you're really passionate about. If you want to penetrate the culture and the penetrating the culture is 10 times harder today than it was then because there's so much streaming and was streaming.

Unfortunately, the marketing, they don't really market movies as the way they did, say, even 10 years ago, where there's outdoor art and there's in-theater art and there's in the stores or in the subway or at the airport. So it's hard to find the things that you make, movies or television shows. It's very difficult to navigate and find them. However, if there's marketing and there's noise around them, there's

there's a better chance and then the noise will generate more noise and hopefully that noise is good noise so you think that the because I obviously have a show on Netflix called unstable we're in our second we're shooting our second season streamer good show thank you and

And you're right. They don't advertise. No advertising. I mean, you're not seeing a commercial during a playoff game of football for the new. So it's a whole new. Yeah. And the question becomes, how do you break out? How do you get into the culture? And it's like this show Wednesday they did. It's because that girl did the dance. People like the Wednesday dance, you know, whatever. That Wednesday dance was really good. It got people to pay attention. Yeah. But that was a combination of happy accidents. Yeah.

Yeah. So I guess my question to you is, how do you do it without a combination of happy accidents? Because there was a day, and you know it well, when a studio could buy an opening weekend. They could. Yeah. They could force it down your throat, and you could have a big opening weekend, and then the movie really does get to rise and fall on its own merit. But the notion that a good movie would go unnoticed...

No, that happens all the regular. Now it happens regularly, but in the old days it didn't. Now it happens all the time. So how do you combat it? How do you find the happy accident? How do you find the Wednesday dance?

I think if you got up and did that right now, you're going to have more people watching that podcast. Rob Lowe just did the Wednesday dance. The Wednesday dance. I can't believe it. He was so good at it, by the way. Brian, there's a reason I didn't get Footloose. That's funny. We always remember those things. Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Happy accidents are, in fact, accidents, so you can't really forecast them. Yeah.

You know, you can try to have your movie or television show come out on a date or a time or a holiday that has more opportunity for an accident. Yeah, that's smart.

If it's a holiday movie, you can have it. This is not necessarily an accident, but you have to work to have tie-ins with other brands and co-brand. And you can do things that could create happy accidents. You can get a star on a late night show or on YouTube that says or does something that is...

really wild, you know, I mean, we know stars have been created or fame has been created through many happy accidents. Well, that's what the next place I was getting to is what is your, again, you've been, you've worked with everybody from Hanks to Denzel, Eddie Murphy now. I mean, there's almost nobody that you haven't worked with. Right.

in some capacity. And what is your... Leonardo DiCaprio, who's amazing. Leo, you did... Was it Blood Diamond? What did you do with it? No, I did a movie that Clint Eastwood directed on J. Edgar Hoover called J. Edgar. That's great. He's great in it. That's a great movie. He was so good in it. He's so good in that movie. He's good in everything. He is. But what is your assessment of celebrity movie stars? What it takes to be a movie star? Has it changed? What's new? Give me a minute.

Give me some info on that.

at kindergarten age. So that's not a good sign. So basically, and to be an influencer really just is saying you have to have fame, lots of likes. Does talent always win? It used to. I don't know if it necessarily does today. Wait, hang on. Hang on. Let's dig in on that. Because you are among the most sunny people

optimistic, glass half full guys. Thank you. Yeah, and that's what I love about you. In a town full of misanthropes and schadenfreude. Yeah. And so the notion that you are saying it's possible today, that talent doesn't always win is super significant. Yeah, it just doesn't. I think talent wins, often wins, but

I think talent has to work harder to be a team leader in the movie or television that they do and do publicity or get, say, hey, listen, I want Beyonce to do a track on this movie. If I can't get a promise that you'll try to get Beyonce or Taylor Swift or Rihanna, I

then that's a consideration. Maybe I don't want to make that movie then. So you can try to influence those things. They should certainly be in your mind and you should try because you have more happy accidents the more variables that you put into play. So if you get a talented artist, a singer,

or you get a talent artist that does your artwork, you know, things like that will help. So what I get from this, and this is a question in a subject that I brought up to you, not because we're doing a podcast. I literally want to know this from you because it helps me design where I'm headed in my own career and life. Because again, I think you're one of the smartest guys out there.

You're telling me that having talent today, where we currently sit now, may change, but right now, being talented in no way is enough. You have to be entrepreneurial. You have to think outside the box. You have to be willing to hustle. Yes. You have to be willing to, I mean, there was a day, and there's still some, actors who don't do publicity.

Right. They don't do publicity and they only count on incoming phone calls. Now, movie stars do outgoing phone calls and they do do publicity and they want the best result for a bunch of reasons. Even if it's just to create their next brand. Okay. Next tequila. And see that all that stuff would have been considered gauche and unseemly. Like there's no world where Warren Beatty at the height or Paul Newman is

would have been doing any of those things. No, or Steve McQueen or any of those guys. It would have been beneath them. Or James Bond. No. Beneath them. Never would they think of doing a commercial or doing television at one time. For sure. And now it really is. And listen, the good news is you can do all of those things today and nobody categorizes you

or looks askance. I mean, we live in a world where if you win, and we can argue, listen, you've produced the Academy Awards. We can argue the cultural significance of the Oscars today, which I think is next to nil. But in the old days, if you won an Oscar, that meant you were probably going to get to do two or three really big movies. Now it means you're going to get a branding deal.

It does. And sadly, it does mean that. Oh, no, no, no, it does. It means you're going to get a branding deal and you're going to get a Marvel movie. Yeah. Like, you come out of nowhere, you're Brie Larson, you've been pounding the pavement, you do this little movie, you're brilliant, you get an Oscar, and what you get out of it is a commercial and a Marvel movie. That's what you get. And in the old days, you know, if you were Deborah Winger or whoever, Jessica Lange, whoever, you got five great movies out of it.

Definitely. Yeah. And a couple more Oscars. Yeah. Those days are over. Yeah. For the most part, yes. Okay, I'm giving you the chance to produce the Oscars again. It's a good question, me, coming up. First of all, it can't be a TV show anymore, I think, is the real problem. Ah.

Did we ever talk about this? No, we've never talked about this. A friend of mine said it can't be. Another very smart friend of mine said it can't be a TV show. Talk to your friend, Michael Rapinoe at Live Nation. Do it as a live event. I mean, a live event like a concert.

Yes. That's what somebody said. I don't know if that's right or wrong. I think something, well, listen, it's not working. No one cares. Yeah. I haven't watched it in years. Yeah, it's boring. It's boring. You've never heard of the movies. You don't know half the people. Yeah. It's interminable. And it's sad because it was designed differently.

to be an ambassadorship for what we, the good things of what we do. Yeah, celebrating. Celebrate what we do. Yeah. And I don't know, man, I don't know what's going to happen, but I know that if you couldn't figure it out, nobody could figure it out. I sort of figured out the show at the time because a few previous shows, Oscar shows, they were more cynical. So I just said, I'm just going to only celebrate artists.

So I only brought joy onto the stage. I made it the shortest Oscars. I think it was two hours and 20 minutes. It was the shortest Oscars. I thought that will hold people instead of three hours and 20 minutes, or sometimes they're four hours. It's just crazy. I thought I'll do it the shortest. I'll do it the most celebratory, and I'm going to get comedians so it's funny. Smart.

Very smart. I'm excited about the book. Give me the title again. Thanks. A Curious Mind, The Secret to a Bigger Life Expanded. Amazing. By the way, did you do an audible? Can I get it with you reading it? The new one does. Yes, it does have an audible. Yes, yes, yes. But it's not you reading it? No, I'm just reading a few of the chapters. Well, either way, I'm getting it. Yeah. I love you, man. This is so great. I love having people that I love on and the people that I truly just...

can't get enough of their wisdom and you tick both the boxes for sure. Well, thank you, Rob. I can't wait to see you again. I know. Sauna. Let's get our sauna and our cold plunge. Yeah, let's cook up that. You still got to get your cold plunge on. Yeah, I've got my cold plunge. I know I have one. Oh, you do? Oh, yeah, I've got one. In fact, I got a discount. I didn't know I was getting a discount, but my wife says, you've got to do a quick Instagram video. Why? Because...

They gave me a 40% discount if you would do one Instagram video. I go, okay. So I did that. Brian, you become an influencer. You become an influencer. I'm an influencer. It's not enough to have, how many Oscar nominations do you have? It seems like around 50. Okay. You have a mere 50 Oscar nominations. Not enough. Got to be an influencer. Sorry. Sorry, bro. All right. Thank you, pal. Love you, buddy. Adios. Bye. Take care. Bye.

I'm going to get Brian's book. I'm getting it now. I'm going to learn stuff. How great is the notion that he doesn't call his high-powered friends unless the stock market is up? It's so good. Oh, my God. Anyway, hey, thanks for listening, you guys. I hope you got as much out of that as I did. You know, there's a lot about show business that I'm ambivalent about at best.

and some of the folks in it as well. But that, you just spend some time with one of the legitimate good guys who also happens to be among the smartest and most talented. So I'm super happy to have presented him to you, particularly if maybe you weren't aware of him. You got questions? I got answers. Let's hit the lowdown line. Hello, you've reached literally in our lowdown line.

where you can get the lowdown on all things about me, Rob Lowe. 323-570-4551. So have at it. Here's the beep.

Hey, Rob. This is Steve from Miami. I know you're a big baseball fan. As am I. I was a big Red Machine fan back in the 70s. There's a few guys that I'd like to go to a ballgame with, one being yourself, Jason Bateman, Billy Crystal, and Seinfeld. Who are your four guys you'd like to get together with or have gotten together with to watch a ballgame? Okay.

Thank you very much. Love your show. Hey, man. First of all, that is, I got like super touched going that you'd want to sit with me at a baseball game. To say you want to sit with somebody at a baseball game is like the highest compliment, I think. So thank you for that. And boy, your list, I can't argue with your list. Your list is sick. That's baseball spectator hall of fame list that you just put out there. I, first of all, I had the dream. I had the dream of all dreams.

of who I got to sit and watch a baseball game with. I sat next to and watched a World Series game with Vin Scully. It was unbelievable. It was unbelievable. Quick side note. So as a baseball fan, you remember that they put up the foul ball netting much through a larger part of the stadiums. I think it was three seasons ago.

And it was kind of a kerfuffle. Fans didn't like it or some fans did. And it was to protect people from foul balls. If you're a baseball fan, you'll remember that. I was saying to somebody, well, yeah, I think somebody got killed in Dodger Stadium with a fly ball. And then it occurred to me, I was sitting next to Vin Scully. And I literally turned to Vin and I said, Vin, would somebody kill the Dodger Stadium with a fly ball? And it was like the radio turned on.

It was a twilight doubleheader when the Mets were in town and a young boy took a foul ball off the cranium of the third base side. He was taken by a stretcher and waved to the crowd to a standing ovation. He died on the way to the hospital. It was unbelievable. I don't think anything's ever going to top that. Good question. Thanks, brother. We're back next week. More fun and games here on Literalize.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Nick Liao. With help from associate producer Sarah Begar. Research by Alyssa Grawl. Editing by Jerron Ferguson. Engineering and mixing by Rich Garcia. Our executive producers are Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and myself for Team Coco, and Colin Anderson for Stitcher. Booking by Deirdre Dodd. Music by Devin Bryant. Special thanks to Hidden City Studios.

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