#402 – Michael Malice: Thanksgiving Pirate Special
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The following is a conversation with Michael Alice energy and author of dear reader. Can you write the understand book, the weight pill? And here's the host of the podcast.

You're welcome. This is a thankful for giving special of the pirate and ocean going variety. So once again, let me say thank you for listening today and for being part of the swilled journey with me.

And now a quick view. Second mention of each sponsor, check them out in the description is the best way to support this podcast. We get policy genius for life insurance, master class for learning, sharp fy for a shopping, Better help for health and a sleep for naps to do lesly.

My friends also, if you want to work with our amazing team or just get in contact with me, got a lex freeman that com slash contact like the movie, except i'm not in alien, allegedly. And now onto the full atterly, as always. No, as in the middle, I tried to make these things interesting.

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Life insurance makes me think of, Marcus is in the stock. S. I, of course, think about the roman empire many times a day. Mark release is one of the great emperors and also one of the great philosophers that came from the long history of the roman empire. A quote for males too well on the beauty of life, watch the stars and see yourself running with them.

He, like many stocks, emphasize the importance of living deeply each moment that we get in this too short life, and to meet day on the shortening, the finnie tss of IT on death, that one day they will come a moment when we take our last breath. Thinking about this moment clarifies just what matters. Thinking about life insurance is yet another way for me to think about the fact that this thing ends.

He should contemplate the implications of that, the praga matic and the full official with policy genius. You can find life insurance policies that start at just two hundred and ninety two dollars per year for one million dollars of coverage had deposit genius that com, or click the link in the description to get your free left insurance quotes and see how much you could save as policy genius that com. The shows also brought to buy a master class, ten dollars a month gets you all access pass to watch causes from the best people in the world and their respective disciplines.

There are so many credible options, many of which I watched, many of which I haven't watched. I can't wait to watch, for example, when I haven't watched yet, that my q is a mathematical thinking by terrence tile. This is one of the greatest living mathematicians in the world.

In him, philosophy. About the big picture, mathematics is incredibly valuable, especially given the fact that he really hasn't done anything like this anywhere else. For me, the person loves math, just I can't, I can't wait. But the problem is there's so many other options.

That's the thing I really recommend is to focus I really dedicate yourself to particular master class and as long as getting value from IT, keep going until the end, don't skip around finish filali on poker strategy have talked about Daniel government, but filali has a pok aster class, and that's another tally different orthogonal kind of genius, even if pokers not, you think it's just a fascinating to see one of the best, not the best poker play in the world. Talk about how they think about the strategy of pocky. All that is fascinating.

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And when I say anyone, I mean even people like me, IT took me no time to set up a store and to put swag, to put some t shirts on there with some lex related. Imagine for the folks who are into that kind of thing. I personally like wearing teachers that celebrate processor bander or book.

Author is a cool way to start conversation. I think I have a space elsy shirts and blade runner. All these have started conversations.

People come up to me, and it's an efficient and fund entry point into an intense passion field discussion about a particular sipi topic, our bar, whatever, whatever we're talking about. And of course, I have bad shirts, famous ones. And also famous ones have many metal ga shirts.

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I, of course, every time I have to spell our help, think about cast away my time hangs, who, by the way, got in touch with me and is considering doing the podcast, which he is one of my favorite actors he has, creates some of the most iconic characters ever, some of the most incredible movies ever. I kind of aspire when I grow up. I spare to be for gump.

But anyway, we all need help. We all struggle some, struggle a lot. If you listening to this in your struggling, I just want you to know that i'm thinking about you and i'm grateful that you hear with us on this earth.

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The thing that brings me a lot of joy while there is for twenty minutes, or for eight hours, or for nine hours, for six hours, no matter the hours for the minutes, IT allows me to have a cold bed surface with a warm blankets, is an escape from the world, much the terminal of the chaos in my mind can settle down and be alleviated through a twenty minute nap. I sometimes pop a caffy pill and you take a nap, then I wake up and like twenty thirty minutes, like incredibly energized and just clear of thinking. And all the troubles with which I went into the nap with, or somehow gone to a different planet, maybe every time you fall asleep, you actually transport into a different universe where the chaos in your mind has not yet had a chance to materialize.

Unlikely, but entirely possible. Anyway, I really, really enjoy that you can heat IT up, cool IT down on each side of the best separate. I'll check IT out and get special savings when you go to asleep.

Dot cons, lash legs. This is eleven past the supported. Please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, dear friends, here's Michael mAlice.

The box, yeah.

is there .

is something in that box of exquisite beauty, both literally and in what IT symbolizes and why IT is here.

Given the kind of human being you are unterrified at, what you find beautiful.

That's a good point. You can hit me with a curve ball yeah like for me, the most beautiful like wildlife are what I call got mistakes yeah because my friend came up with that term where she's like, you know, god made these disgusting animals just .

threw the bomb. The ocean is like, I know one is ever going to see twitter creat rainbow type creature p to shrimp yeah it's beautiful.

It's horrific though. So IT has I think eight legs, six arms to punching clause or sparing clause depending on the genus uh two eyes to anti to year flaps I know they do um and its punch can be a strong as a bullet. And the other type with the spears divers call them thun splitters because if you stick your fingering near IT, it'll cut your thum down to the bone.

So I had one as a pet all night. I would hear banging on the PVC pipe, and i'd gotto tell you if they have the best eyesight of any animal, because they seem like seven hundred ways. And when you make I contact with this thing, it's, it's just absolutely rifling. But you eat the missus. I, they called sea.

and pigs are colorful and beautiful.

That species is, yeah.

what was like a having one as a pet. Why did you do .

IT well when you have a species that that unique in that much of an outlier? Now, growing up, reading these books, watching these shows, I found the stuff so much fascinating and like space and which is you know dead um to be able to have this special in your house and just observe its behavior is just just like an amazing thing.

Why do you get rid of IT?

I didn't have, I guess, the right minerals in the mix. He died. He had a problem melting once. Yeah, they couldn't. Lt, correctly.

You miss think about IT. I do .

think about IT. To be honest. I still have, uh, pair with punching a appendages from when they melted.

What pet animal in your life do miss the most that has been in your life that you think about?

I've never had cats or dogs growing up anything like that, which, you know, I got. My problem .

is that .

if I like something, I will go down a rabbit hole yeah so I know if I got one tattoo, I really know my first five, we're going to be okay. So I can't do IT because then once I get those five it's gonna one hundred and i'm too old to be the tattoo guy.

What would be the first tattoo? Um my face. Like what going on your s cheek? So what would you put them? Like if he was my face.

if I got your face, IT would definitely be on my arrier .

you had multiple faces.

would you put, like, I think dealt right shoulders.

different faces and different shoulders. And then when you flat the tree, yeah, would you get a dictator? If you if you had to get a dictor hold.

you get, we have they came john, all right, does I write the book on him?

Like lugging your book. Don't logging.

It's just like I have a personal connection to get .

opener this conversation we would be asking why him and he like why I wrote a book about .

IT I don't be like, okay OK here here's that would be a bad that somewhat happens OK here's the thing. What happens when you write a book about north? Hey, nice to meet you.

What is that you do on an author kind of books? You write all my last ninety percent of the time, ninety. They will then start telling me everything they know about north korea.

And it's like, I don't need this is a quiz and it's a very poorly understood country. I don't expect you to know anything. You're not on the spot and and half what you're saying .

is not accurate either. It's fine.

How often did they bring up denis roman person, do you? But I don't understand what I guess people feel the need to like alright, like now we're talking about this subject. I just got to you know drop whatever I can talk about. Its usually small amount. And there is this thing in the culture which I hate, that everyone have done an opinion and everything and it's like, it's okay to be like, yeah do to know anything about that tell me more this lots .

of things that don't know thing about what's your opinion on my bird here, mister pet?

It's a macaw. It's got a ca, what? IT is a scarlet macaw.

Oh, you know, birds.

yeah. And that's actually not lifesize.

Ed, are you saying he's not real?

I was saying it's not to scale.

okay, but he's real.

Are we doing that monty piton sketch?

Everything is a monday by time.

I don't think monday by funny and at all like not that .

explains so much. Does IT what does that explain? Everything is funny.

but you not answers that question is pretty flood.

yeah. What you think is funny? Having a matter shrimp? no. You think bigger boss y is funny.

Oh god, no.

Although this is getting more and worse.

to be fair, you I only tried to watch big labour ski after it's been part of culture for many years to the point where every single line has been quoted necessary by the most annoying fragrance ever. So I kind of have been poisoned to be able appreciate IT. So maybe i'd seen IT when I came out before he became a thing I would have enjoyed IT. I couldn't get through IT like I couldn't get through twenty minutes.

That's how you feel about sher's list. Well, it's so much easier for me to stare. You have some glasses. I didn't think you'd .

be the one making hello up jokes today.

And we are. And cut seen. I actually like, no trouble making ye contact with you when one shades. Yes, because you're robot. Two.

two copies of myself. Yeah.

are you seeing yourself? Them OK a conversation of myself. It's not you felt likes .

they made you like this. You are just a good little robot. So, Peter sport.

I could see mr. Pair a little bit too.

But what do you find funny? Come on. Like this is an interesting subject.

why I find my python, I find a third funny?

Yes, I find a thirty funny. I I think that's the thing when people come at me. And maybe this is an eastern european thing, when they're like, how can you find this like very dark subject funny? It's like, well, the humor, first, all the humor is that you are making fun of something that dark, so already subber exactly appropriate. Second, just psychologically, you know, john rivers said that winston circle said, I do enough to that when you make people left to giving them a livable. And I was just talking about this the other day, how when I die, if I want my funeral be aroused, yeah, IT doesn't help me that everyone said, if I brought people happiness to join life, whatever I want to keep doing, that death, your sadness doesn't help me.

I know you can help IT, but tell stories how made you laugh, make fun of me, make me the punching back, even literally take me out that off and it'll be I don't make me not I don't care so I I think and it's I don't understand why I do understand, but it's sad for me when people are like you. This isn't funny. That doesn't funny.

I the way I look at humor is the way that is like a chef, right? It's pretty easy to make bacon taste good with some of these really obscure ingredients to make IT palatable. Take skill. So if you're dealing with a subject that is very emotional or intense and you can make people laugh, then that takes scale, and that's the relief for them.

yeah. 糟糕 timing。

yeah. yeah. What's the different?

You one of my jokes is that a poor joke? Because that's the only, that's the only kind I expect today. But and that doesn't this one time.

You know who the atomic is? yeah. What's there? Twin lead, Thomas and hitler? what? Leo Thomas knows how to finish a race.

I just get .

the gold shop.

Well, why does IT take pirates forever to get through the alphabet? why? Because they spent years at sea.

Oh, I thought, is giving our joke. That's good. What I like that when I was in north korea.

oh, you know, Dennis roman.

it's a call back. By the way, the thing that is very hard breaking of the north cream situation is that they have a great sense of humor. Yeah, IT would be a lot easier if these were like robots or drones. They have big personalities, big sense of humor, and that made IT much harder to leave and interacted these people because, I mean, there's nothing more human and universal and laugh and laugh at free.

You saying there's humor even amongst people that have most of their freedoms taken away.

especially I mean, again, we're from you know the soviet union. Like there's A D there's like in russian humor is a thing because is nothing. You can this if you can have food or nice things, at least you can have joy and make each other left.

I think about all the time and I think about my guy all the time. It's been what? Twenty twelve it's been in seven years since i've been there and he still there and everyone i've seen still there. They just recently electrified the border. So you can even even the few people who escape and can't do anymore.

but that's interesting that they still have sense of humor, attribute the soviet union for having that because of the um like really deep education system. Thank you. You've got to read a lot of literature, okay and because that you get learn about the the cruel T V injustices, the absurdity of the world, as long as the writing is not about the current regime.

Yeah but I think if you look at like african americans showed americans, gay americans, they are all disproportionate in terms of attributed comedy. It's not cause these groups have some kind of you know magic to them, is that when you are on the outside looking in a you're going to have different respective and the people who in the middle of the bell curve, but also when you'd have anything to lose, at the very least you can make each other laugh and and find happiness that way. Um so you know that is something that I think this is an important thing to recognize.

So what do you find funny? What makes you gago like in the most joyful of ways, the suffering of others?

I mean, there are um youtube videos of. Like that, people falling down and they're really funny.

There's two kinds of people in this world, those that laugh at those videos and those that don't .

no those that are in um my friend .

Jessie just told me .

great nor mcDonald joke and this is a good lighters test joke because he says a set group people lose their minds and a certain roup people just stare at you and he goes this kind of and so i'll tell you the job. This is Normal double guy walks into a bar and he sees someone at the bar who has a big pumpkin for a head. And the guys I do, what happened to you goes up, you never believe this.

I got one, those gene lamps. And like this gene, he's like, what happened? He goes, well, the first wish, you know, I wish four hundred million dollars, is like, get IT goes, yeah, you know, was in my bank count, feels fine.

He goes, all right. Well, the second wish, I wish that sex as many beautiful I want go to happen. Yeah, was amazing. He goes, then what? Well, I wish for a giant pump in head. Yeah so there's a certain mindset that i'll just be staring at the screen and that is I mean, there's so many levels why that's funny, at least to me and I just love that kind well.

Normal like just I watch his videos and is a guy that makes me giggle and he's one of the people that makes me giga for reason. I don't quite understand.

Did you ever seen with carrot p corner? brian? No, i'm making for a carrot p no, he, this is by the best talk show clip of all time he's on with courtney thorn smith. He was a melton's place and corner brings the host and courtney talking about how she's going to be upcoming movie with care and Colin is like, oh, what's the can recalled and she's like the amethi and Norman goes, I know what should be called box office poisoned and there are laughing and she's like, no, to know that the working title is chairman of the board and coin goes, do something with that smart s and dorm goes, yeah, board to spell B O R D. And they are just completely lost IT.

There's something about him with words spoken out of his mouth with the way he like, turns his head and looks at the camera.

I think he is one of those rare comedians who you really feel like he's talking you directly yeah he feels like he's winking at you yeah in the audience and he's like and can you believe doing this like it's it's like he almost he feels like he's I don't want to say him poster but like he's more remember the audience than he is a member of the people in the .

stage yeah he feels like he's our side. Yes, whatever to help our means.

You know, rosan got him his first job.

Rosan in urban.

Now I got, oh my god, talk about thanksgiving. When you are talking to rose and bar and making eye contact with this person, IT is, I can't even describe IT it's just like, holy crap roeber talking to me he is i've said this to her face, pathologically funny like IT does not turn off and you're sitting there and you're like, holy crap and when you make her laugh, which is that laugh with in the theme song of her show, you feel like, okay, I did a mita.

I did something good and right in the world that I made those and bar laugh and it's also really funny because and she's going hate this because I tell her she's a dorrimore, she's isn't like that. She's little you think of rose and bar as this like force of nature, like a sumi. She's like five, three and say, like maybe one thirty like and she's and he puts on the sunglasses you think this little juice h later you would never know.

This is one of the most epic performers all time. SHE lives near here now, so it's just so much fun talking her. There is an old theatre magazine in the, I think, like early two thousands called hib written bagges and SHE dressed up as hit her for one of the photo shoots.

And he was baking little men in the evin. I got, I found on ebay. I want her to sign IT to Michelle ude in you about you signed IT to Michael.

You're one smart cookie. And now IT hangs love mom. Rose bar, I call IT mom and IT hangs over my desk, could have her a good domestic gottest energy following at me. What do .

you find? What else is Norman Donald? But we .

agree on something. My favorite median of all time is neil hamburger. So neil hamburger, I don't know him, booming the bit. He is a character, but performed as guiding greg turkington. So he comes out in a tuxedo, big eyeglasses, holding three glasses of water .

cuffing .

into the mike. And I remember I saw him once in L. A. And the girl ahead of me, the table ahead me, was with her boyfriend, is basic chic pumpking spice. SHE turns to him.

He goes, what is this? And I remember the first time he was on Jimmy cml, and he tells one of his jokes, and he was like, why does IT like racist pieces so much? Well, that's what sperm taste like in his own planet.

And like, no one laughs, and he goes, i'll come on, guys have cancer and IT just cuts to this marine in the audience with his arms crossed. And so if you know what he's doing, it's just absolutely mazing. He opened for tanasul d ones in h somewhere, I think in ireland under the U K.

One of those. And they're booing him because his jokes are often not funny. He's OK. Where did my a hor x wife run off to with that dentist she's checking up with, I don't know.

But when I see in court next month, a so they're booing and he goes, all right, do you guys want me to bring out to nations? D they're like, yeah, do you want to see your hero? A mina, come on, let me here. Do you want to see the nation today? And I goes, all right, uh, if I tell this next joke and you don't booy, i'll bring out in A H D and it's like, um i'm trying to think of one that's not too cell .

censorship is never .

okay he goes, um can we agree that George bush is the worst president americans ever had? Every club s goes, which makes us all the stranger that his son, George w. Bush was, in fact.

the best I take you back so .

two people laugh and he goes, oh, that's amazing. I guess i'll do in on core and he did ten more minutes. IT was just just like, I love him so much .

essentially in the open for tuner d jack black that's a community genius of a different kind oh yeah.

he was in one of my favorite movies just is son indeed movie um he did a great turn that he's really underrated as an actually has got a lot of range like I know that kinds kind of get types cast as this kind of one specific type, but he's really, really talented but also .

just like the pure joy yes.

he's clear having fun.

okay? IT is thankful for giving. So in a tradition following tradition, what are you thankful for? Michael.

I got the world.

Do you have a list to? No, not really, really. It's happen here.

I have not been. You have several things you think, yes, yes, yes. One of the things in my .

list comes from the heart. I don't have to write .

anything down a lot to have down o one of the things that I most think before is a common answer. But I I came back IT up is my family. Because my nephew, look is is now six years old.

And he, when kids have a sense of humor, it's like just macos. So he stole my sister's phone. His mom figured out that grandma is listed, his mom and the phone, and he calls him up and he's like Michael in the hospital.

He's really sick, you want to tell you and she's speaking out. He goes playing. So I took him the nish issues, just released a movie called police state, which is actually really good, but highly commended that I was surprised how much I elected because he wasn't going. Republican's good, democrat bad. IT was just about authoritarians. M, and he had a movie premier maroo go some like, I got to bring luis to maroo go so lucas, i'm like, we're going to the president's house is like all the White house and I like known like a former president that goes, oh, ablin and I like, okay, kid logic like he's giving logical answers. This is kind like A I if you have the program it's it's .

using logic recall you should have told him as a president that's second to only a blinking .

in terms of mitya um he a went up to all the women in their ball gal evening gown and he goes you're so beautiful where you born as a girl so what you have the six year old asking you this IT was really, really fun um so that is a great joy to have an if you and I ve one's that was coming up uh in age and started to talk, now that is really.

really fun getting to watch them, no find out about about the world of the first .

and also training them like that. He he what he loves, being funny and having .

fun for your years. Audience, and yeah, but if you get on.

I, he wear prank brows. He gives me high five, my family. And this is when you talk about what I find funny. This is things that actually enrage me.

When people in this such a worst thing don't just go with the joke or they're like, I don't get IT or they don't understand to just go with IT. I was in the car with my sister when he was like, ten, twelve, whatever. He is much amy at me.

She's twelve Younger. And there is this species of squid, by the way, which is asymmetry. One of its eyes is very much bigger.

The other, because IT swims horizontal. And once looking up, once looking down, where is more light? Shout out one. Learn about squid.

Go to oco ation 点 com options。

Shout that shot to warn a lot of fascinating .

stuff alternation I instagram .

yes um I was in the car of my sister.

She's extended to me as a pirate. I know i'm sorry for the interruption. I I appreciate .

that .

I can t especially yeah, it's a great yeah these jokes and thoughts are coming .

at like a ten second delayed about .

so I need help. No, the ages can do.

I was, you're skin .

is showing IT getting dark.

I told my sister, I go when you were born, one of your eyes was bigger, the other and you had had surgery to fix IT so SHE turns, she's like mom and my mom goes, honey, the important things that you're beautiful now that's what the are, just little surgery alright, cause gramma and grama goes. H he goes, Michael said them as boron is he goes, why is he telling you this? Now it's not a big deal.

You were. So the fact that everyone went with this, I was so impressed. I was like, this is a quality family in very specific regard. yeah. Does your family have since you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know. So via culture, there's like a dark sancy humor very much. There's a world play wordplay yeah yeah especially the russian language allows for some yes, holiday to IT is also culture of like poetry and like a my dad, my mom too, but they they remember a lot of lines from books and poems. So there's just you can do a lot of fascinating references that add to the humor and the richness of the.

I think this a very russian thing, like at a party or maybe the bars. I don't know where you meet people. These are such great, nice.

I meant in russia. I mean, these would be such good. Ice's akers, right? You got to someone. God's, hey, you hear this one. Nova, nic thought.

and you just tell him some little and rush. I'm here all night .

that you never really so I feel like that's a thing. Yeah and that's not a thing in america.

You mean like witty banter no meaning you've got up to stranger and like.

that's your icebreaker. You tell him this little, little joke. And since everyone kind has the same sensibilities, right the way you guys are chatting, I don't think that's a thing here. Yeah, think here is more small talk, which drives me crazy.

So what else do you thankful for?

what? what? What something you're thankful for?

Well, you want with family, i'm definitely thankful for family.

okay. Yeah how if I may ask, how do they react to you like you're sitting down with the you're sitting now you say all these big with canyon, all these big names, are they expressing that they're proud of you? Or the more look why having you talk .

to this person more Michael Alice, please people's .

choice.

Yeah yeah they're very proud. They've been very that that I mean but they get argument with just they just like a regular human being with whom i'm close when we just argue us stuff they're not maybe not enough showed being proud of but that part is just the nature of our relationship is also soviet, apparently. Yeah.

I don't talk to my dad. That's one the reasons because there's .

never ever any good job.

And at a certain point, it's like why i'm trying to search for approval from someone i'm never getting getting for in from pub. I wouldn't mean anything that this win anyway.

Well, if that's interesting, me there's a journey like that for a lot of people with their father, with their mother, like I was trying to find approval, right? And that's life for a lot of people yeah, that's that's a really big part of the human condition. Is that relationship you have with your father, with your mother is a beautiful thing. It's what there has been a rough childhood, beautiful, one of IT. That's who you are like, that the relationship was pressure early on in your life with your father when your mother is extremely formative.

Yeah so my dad taught me a lot of things at a Young age that am very, very grateful for a he was his extremely intelligent, very float and that's fine we all are um except for me um and it's the kind of things that when you learn things at a right a and this is one the things I like about being older is that when my friends make a much older when I much, much older, when I have friends who are Younger, it's very easy for me to keep them from making the mistake cited so at least something i'm getting out of IT is that okay? I can fix these mistakes, but I just takes me thirty seconds and I can pull you back from making the mistake. So he taught me a lot as a kid. He really encouraged me very much to he's a very good sense of humor who is also very bad in some ways um dad jokes, but also really funny jokes but also this love of learning uh that I got that from him and I mean I I have got literally right now ninety books on my shelf to read it's just a life and that makes me I remember a friend and he ran at someone who went to high school worth and he stopped you on the train and it's like, yeah, you're not encourage you need to read book anymore and I was just .

like horrified to hear this yeah yeah boy, don't I know .

I I I mean, I I you do laugh but like I I when you got there's a lot of things I don't understand when you got heat for like I want to read the western classics to me that that might have been like the it's above worst .

and I think there's just a cynical perspective. You can take the term. This is such a simple celebration of a thing that there must be something behind IT. I think the internet, for good and bad, is just sceptical. I was behind this.

my hero, Albert oo, and if this one thing I would wanna a fight, its cynicism. Yeah, because it's such a giving up. It's such everything sucks, this sucks, that suck, this sucks.

Most things suck. Most stand comedian suck. Most movie suck, all podcast suck. Um but .

IT isn't specially.

Um but the stuff that's good is what matters. There are, who cares if ninety percent of movies are terrible, like there are the ones that change your life. The books, the people, the the comedians that shows the music .

and even the terrible things have good moments, beautiful moments.

Some, not all.

Your park has been example of not all. I literally just, I keep listening for something good.

something good. You know, fairness, not of my guests have anything to offer. It's not me. I tried.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I wish you talk a little lesson. Your bag is so little excessive. I only listen for the work commercials.

SHE is underway.

That com, I think you did this, haven't see you doing a while. But this kind of commentary, or on a debate, or I think was with rand, I really debated, yes.

meals at the movies. I watch the video and I broke IT down.

I really did them more.

I haven't done live streaming in a long time. I IT was something I was doing. A lot of new york is in coffee. I feel that um I don't know i'm having i've got so many projects on the plate. Um i'm oh this is something or something for for this is something i'm very, very thankful and i'm i'm going announced here.

good. finally. With lucky guy.

You they .

want to drag out makes me he makes .

me column sex you .

like so I didn't .

say you didn't even imply that when I in, as you probably know, as you know. But as many people watching this also know Hardy p car who had the company series american splendid, was the subject. The movie american splendid.

He wrote a graphic novel about me in two thousand and six four equal hubris, which goes for like and fifty dollars on ebay. It's not worth IT just download IT. And I met harvey because I wrote the screenplay about this band from the eighties called ruba odio, the real band.

And the keyboard is gary leave, who passed away rest in piece. Gary introduced me to harvey because he did the animation for the movie, and the scripts been in my desk over two twenty years. And I realized, thanks to my body and july, who has some huge success with this comics, I could just produce this as a graphic novel. So i've got an artist. We're getting IT together, so i'm going to make IT happen finally, and it's some of the best writing ever done and really proud the story.

It's kind of ironic reading IT now because when you are right to obviously different books, you put different aspects of yourself into them, right? And this story is very, very dark because basically they did all the right things and they went nowhere, right? But what I realized was reading IT now that all these fears I had over twenty years ago about what if i'm not going to make IT, what if, you know, i'm doing all the hard work and it's still not enough uh, now it's been disproven because I can at .

least pay my grand. You feel you like you've made IT SHE said .

you could pay. I feel that to make IT is if you can pay you, if you don't have that a boss and you know how I really felt like I made IT. This is going to sound like a joke, and it's not.

This is being an immigrant. But I own, as you know, Margarett cher's book cases. yes. So to me, as an immigrant, to have her book cases in my house, i've made IT.

You are, it's not a joke.

Sound is something funny that that is serious.

Oh, nice. Now, more nervous and aroused. So what I say, thanks for. So we both thankful for family.

You I mean, i'm the fact that I can still get IT up.

What's that? Nothing ahead.

I think as an author to be able to write what you want and half of enough an audience that IT covers your living. That's as good as IT gets as an author almost. You don't need to be Stephen king or some legend.

It's like, you know there's lots of standoff weren't like world's famous, but they they have perfectly good living. They do their gig. They do what they love. I I feel very, very blessed. But you must be, think for your career.

Yeah, yeah. Career was put. Like, I think the best part about IT, just me making friends with people I admire OK, when you just friends, you know, the people have gone to know me.

I hide from the world. Sometimes I hit some low points, especially this new, all the new experiences. And the people have been there for me and haven't given up on me.

Know these days and sure you had this also. We're like a little, they don't speak to someone the whole day. And in certain times of my life it's really I I remember very vividly I I was in D.

C. Ninety seven. I was in in turn. And that summer A D C closed down on the weekends. And I remember those weekends when, like I got off the phone was like the third person I knew there was no possibility anyone was gona call and what that felt like, I was dark and he was bad um so I remember that those feelings of loneliness like a .

lot I still feel alone like that times you don't feel you don't feel .

alone um nothing more.

What's the what's the reason you think I because .

there's like I have a lot of people who I care about who care about me. Uh, but I mean, the thing about moving awesome is I forgot how lonely york got because IT was like one after another. I lost everybody and I certain and then you start losing the places you go to and then I was just like color crap and very isolated.

And here, Austin, there's not as much to do obviously in new york, but there's a lot of people here. More people are coming all the time. Um so if I ever want to like hang out with someone, i've got a long list. Um and these are people who have known for very long time, people who know me quite well, like be myself um my awful, awful, awful, awful, awful self. Uh, and that is something I don't take lightly.

Now you moved to texas is gonna sucessful ah just the very, do you know what happened with that? No.

I forget the guys in the name and is pray for the best monday. On monday, a guy in the texas legislature introduced a bill to have IT on the referendum, to have a referendum for taxes to declared independence. Tuesday, i'm on rogan, mean him, discuss that. I give a national attention is also really funny, because lot of people, like these people, have been in texas five minutes.

But I go to the texas legislature, meet with the guy, have a nice conversation month two later, a unanimous, I think he gets voted kicked out of congress because he got an intern drunk and was inappropriate with her and at least there was a girl in this case. But yeah, it's like that was my little texas independence moment. They didn't going. They didn't not go anywhere well, but it's still part of the platform. The texas republic ican .

party is fascinating. History is probably lead in the stories like this of failed revolutionary. We celebrate the heroes, but then there's the losers .

like myself .

and go and .

we're .

gonna mark that one as a failure and edit IT out and moving on. So thankfully, yeah friendships, right? But either I wanna say just to you, i'm thankful in this lonely moments for people who read books.

I've been listening to audio books a lot, reading a lot. I really like audio books actually. And just like, and I can just name random person so hy phis historian and meeting on the.

I read him.

what I just see. He read a book most recently about the russia.

ukraine war. He read another one. I head, yeah, IT was very, very good. He's great. I used him as a research for the IPO.

He's a objective while still having emotion and feeling to IT like he is a bias that's fine. But without a lot times when you write a story that involves putin, people are really ideological yeah they don't really like they don't write with a commonness and the clarity and the rigor of history, there's emotion in IT like there's almost a virtue signal yes and he doesn't have that even though he is ukrainean and very strong opinions on the matter anyway. These people like that and is the incredible job research a recent event um like he says, uh I was looking at everything has been written about the warm ukraine and realizing, you know the old church line that historians are the worst ones to write about current events accept everybody else and so he said, guy, I mind as well I just write about this war and he doesn't accept from jobs summarizing day by day the details of this this world anyway i'm just grateful for guy like .

that took for me this me some histories. I love ur herman that your sebastian is is prime my favorite um David Patricia P E T R U S Z A when you are a historian, then I try to do this to some degree, the White pillow as much I could when you take data and you make IT read like a novel this so you're learning about who we are, people, what had happened. But also is entertaining and redial that means like the acme of writing and I .

have so much acme mean top. Okay, okay. Um this is what writer do. This come up with incredibly sophisticated ds and impressed, said the best of writing.

Acme is also the company like bugs bunny while coyote so acme's, you know, acie, yeah yeah I like me bombs um when they are that good it's just just I just leave me in all just one sure. I was another one who he wrote the hamilton bargrave.

oh, nice. Why I I have a lot of favorite histories about the whole time period of world war two. Will shire people that lived during IT, especially?

I really like those accounts. Obviously, solving this is not a historian, but he is a cancer. sure.

fascinating. You actually, how how much talk about solving ism, ever? Not much, right? Why not?

I feel like I wanted to. I, I, I did nothing I could add to him.

He did he is the Michael miles of previous century .

you know he's talented, charismatic, in in skill so he's not the Michael Alice. Uh, yeah I I did not um I feel like I didn't. I did.

I didn't rego like OK pago for the White pill. I feel didn't I didn't know. I feel I got a lot of IT from any apple bb who's a very controversial figure. Her history books on the civil union, I think are superb but she's also accused of being very much a neocon and being a warm monger and can separate times. Oh, I see.

And I think comparison once between putin stolen, although there is a one diagram I I think are a bit much because I think it's very hard to claim that you know, if putin conquered ukraine, that there will be a genocide. Yes, I don't think. I think it's that's a very hard argument .

make in these tense times. Even the comparisons of what's going on in israel on either side, comparison to the holocaust are also troubling in this way.

Yes, and and I also don't like how that, you know, I got in trouble there. Some literal demon who works at the atlantic is opposed .

the regular demand as opposed .

to figure of demand.

I didn't know the employee demons.

They exclusively employed him and that the atlantic and he was giving me crap this couple years ago on twitter because I didn't think it's appropriate to refer to George sorrow as a holo survivor.

And i'm like, listen, if you want to put him in the same context as and Frank, knock yourself out but I think that's so completely disingenuous and and Frankly repulsive to me morally to equivocate between figures like that and also to clam that anyone who is a billionaire who is include elon, including shelter ato sin, there's no shortage of these people. If you want to use your extreme wealth use to influence politics, you have to be up for criticism and and to protect people of bill gates to protecting these feed from criticism. I just the bed the identities is draining to me.

But also the holocaust, a historical event, and the atrocities within IT are just singular in history. And so comparing them.

What's the utility, right? You're you're just basically trying to take this brand of using that term a very specific way. And like when they say climate denial, no one the nine climate exists. So you're just trying to go off of holiday. S I know, I think it's shameless, and I think it's this gross and IT cheap.

S everything. Yes, there's deep, important lessons .

about the holidays. Yes.

to me, the lessons are about how extreme we can get .

and how fast. That's the one. So, you know, people ask, all humans basically good, are they basically evil? I will say their service animals. And I think people are, most people are almost fundamentally dry anged. And that there's basically is a venir of civilization and decency. And when he hits the fan, and we see this over over, they do things that would have been completely and thinking of all, even to themselves, five years ago.

Most people are fundamentally, during anged, with a veneer of civility.

There is a show called to, I disagree with that. 我是 需要， i'm having alzheimer because of .

the advanced age. I think .

this a show call, I think you should leave. It's I get usually, okay, sorry, it's a sketch comedy show. And he captures these great has to hear princess.

He captures these great moments of just like just a very thair of Normalcy and just a craziness that's so frequently lurking underneath. Another great example of this, when this is dealing people are literally crazy. Have you ever seen the show holders? So every episode of horders is every, there's two usual two people in every episode. Every episode is the same plot line, the near of Normalcy, the eof Normalcy beneath malaca slight expression of concerned football and arrangement, and IT always follows .

that exact pattern. Yeah, I don't know. I think the deep ocean of the human mind is is good, like there's a longing to be good to others.

I have seen literally no evidence of this, and I know everything is a deep motion with you people, but like we .

meet you people virus.

I don't see that you per you were in .

and test I might now it's not nice to .

say .

in front of such a large audience your embarrassing me mister pairs you .

have I missed ir you have is a one of .

the mill tall and barely an intellectual as not as to say as not true. We talked about this yet to see .

the good in people you have seen personally yeah, how quickly and easily IT is for human beings to form out groups yeah, and to just read others, just as I just started in to go with the atlantic completely at the human race. And that happens constantly and very easily. Humans are tribal beings. So that does not I don't see how that's compatible with this essential desire to do good.

No, I think it's got in nineteen eighty four for the two minutes of hate. There is a part of humans that wants to be tribal dep and wants to direct, get angry and hateful. And then that hate is easy to direct.

Yes, by especially people's. You as an anarchist, talk about there are people in power. Yeah, direct that anger. But I think if you just look at recent human history, the desire for good, the communal desire for good, out ways that I think, like most of life on earth read now people are being good to each other. Most fundamental sense related to how nature usually works.

I, okay, I think you're both wronger about people about nature. So nature is not inherently violent in the sense, like, for example, and who has an aquarium? If you look at wildlife, yeah, you have pressure, pray.

But these animals are going to coexisting, and they going to be ignoring each other for the most part, right? And as for humans, you know, being essentially good, I think humans are essentially not to each other, he said. I think they are essentially civil. And amy, but that's not really being good.

Good, I think, is a thing that .

is I mean.

civility is a good starting point. And then when there's a big chAllenge that comes, people step up on average.

I completely agree with that. Human beings are capable of such profound goodness that IT cut IT makes you the extremely emotional. And I I certainly think that that's true, but I think that that's more unusual than is the norm.

I see beauty everywhere.

so do I. But that doesn't mean it's in every person.

not in every person, but in most people. I think, I mean, I wish there was a really good way to measure this. My journal sense of the world is just there's so much incredible, both in terms of economics, in terms of art, in terms of the ation as as a whole has happened over the past century that IT feels like the good is out powering the bed.

You just did the perfect .

segway to .

the box.

What's in the box? So is that you fragile eagle?

That's what you stole. My joke. You storm my joke. That was the joke I made at you before we recorded you.

Still, my joke noted, I write you all your material. You hack.

So, as you know, I have a lot of beautiful stuff in my house because I think it's something very important ever listening. If you accomplish something that is great, some achievement, but I like to do is buy myself something to remember that moment. Because sometimes when it's hard, you forget you've done great things in your life.

You've had accomplishments. Dos have to be some amazing factory. Could just be like my first job.

Well, I got a raise, or you know what? I I anything. So there is this amazing sculptor named jack Michael singer. Singer was a sculptor, and I saw piece of him, a singer boys.

This is jokes on and .

I could somewhere with this, how is singing place?

Do you want write your work for you?

Yeah, what's the punch line?

Um hard.

That's what he said. So I followed him on instagram. He followed me back and he's like, if I made, he says, what's the point of being artist if the work I create isn't in the spaces of people I like and admire? He is a big fan of yours. You've given him on our episodes together.

Give you so he said, if I get a scut make like the sculpture really put on the shelf behind him and what that reminded me of is when I was a kid, um you read that man comics and there's the bad cave and the bad cave has all this cool stuff in IT I didn't realize and so much later that all of those things in the bad cave had an origin story. So the giant penny, the dinosaur, there was actual story where I came from. So if you're a fan of a show, you can spot, oh, this is when disappeared. This is when that appeared this is that appeared so he made you this sculpture uh he lives in turkey um and is called chance murmer and IT is i've even seen yet IT is absolutely .

beautiful I just so you anna, do a little on boxing. Yes okay a exer body .

spray.

Alright, like some box.

You like this box.

you. Know that's even a goal movie where there's a stupid that comes out of the box and see IT he's on a boat, you know an action film guy?

no.

One, what does the pair say when he turns A D, what I made.

I made, oh.

oh, so that's how I know you don't like humor.

I just don't like virus .

when your mothers, you play a musical .

instrument.

neither do you .

like senior guitar videos yeah okay.

here's a big piece word for you. That's what he feels like. Just you know.

那 我 你 也。 Oh, my god.

this travel across the world.

So here's why his work speaks so much to me. So first of all, he's combining so many different references. It's nike. The god is a Victory, right? It's that IT looks like an Angel as well. Um the italian futures, which is my favorite art movement from the early two thousand and century, they tried to capture motion in two d or three form.

Well, jake, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for creating beautiful things. Thank you for caring about somebody like me and somebody like Michael really feels love.

That's still the thing when you have something that matters to in your house and you're having a bad day, you can look at IT and remember, you know what I mean, that spirit of joy. And I actually have a list here. OK, I got a rent ready.

You here, my rent, let's go. One of the things that drives me crazy is when people, especially conservatives, think that all contemporary art is ugly for abstract or literally garbage. And there's a lot of that. But so much of the stuff out there in galleries is not only not a crazy expensive, but they're trying to sell things for people in their house. And there's a Young artist, they're trying to add beauty.

I have a list, if you don't believe me and you think all contemporary artists, garbage and terrible, go to the website to any these places i'm going to get off, look through them and you're telling me that that it's not about creating beauty and enjoying things in people's life. So I don't have any relationship with any these people, these just some galleries I follow on instagram who tray gallery and the gallery giant robot to by net, I know how to finance some, sorry, B A B E I N R T spoke art gallery, var gallery, milano. I was there. The pieces were not expensive at all.

What kind of art we're talking about?

Everything, mostly paintings, mostly paintings, some sculpture, do like this. Corry hell is may have one in a night gallery, vertical gallery of on gallery, hive gallery, haven gallery and current our gallery. I'm telling you, uh, it's not exhibit.

This is not the kind of thing where you have to go to museum and be. This doesn't make sense to me. You look at the right way.

I O, K, I know this is and it's beautiful, awesome. Um and you're supporting someone was Young, creative, trying to do something to make the world a Better place. So i'm a big fan of the contemporary art scene.

A lot of IT is not great, but even the stuff that's not great is very rarely disgusting or gross. It's just like OK i've seen this before, like that OK like this, like a stand up. We're like, i'll pay money for the ticket and summer s like who's an open ends? Like I wouldn't pay the same perform.

But he series still made me laugh. That person is still more by far more good than bad. So like this artist and stuff I would own. But it's like, okay, I get I like IT. Well.

as the analogy goes, like I really like going to open mikes actually because like fund, he sounds absurd to say. But funny isn't the only thing that's beautiful about stand of comedy. It's the the act, the it's it's going for it's trying to be funny. It's taking the leap, trying to joke and some of the best stuff is actually funny. But the audience is like three people to a former drunken board and you still going for IT and that's like, that's the human .

spirit rate there. Rosen was telling me how gilbert god food to go on was like three in the morning and he was like five her and like three other comics in the audience and like they are over dying like he was just killing them. Who is your favorite .

um this month who and cut seen favourite me first first Normal madona if you like, put a gun to my head and add to answer really quickly.

you'll be him. Okay.

I would also say A C K.

oh, wow. yeah.

Oh my god. But that's almost like a anal answer at this moment in in history because it's like a blue y case.

Pretty really active.

He is well, yeah, he does IT the tough topics. sure. The best, which i'd burg the weight of a good one liner.

great. I guess that's what Normal down. yes. How about you?

There's I mean, we're so fortunate to be here in Austin because that come on, mothership, you go there and like people just killing a David lucas is amazing. Titivate probably did the best set i've seen since i've been here. Austin and I watched him and i'm like, this guy's like even bitter than I him so I reached out to him.

So he's just terrific. David lucas is another one of body of mine. You a choice?

I think they have land up.

Excuse me, they ve just .

it's true though.

It's true. It's true. sure. Dave luis .

ever been to the commonly mothership? It's a great, is a great boat. Where is that? Is that, Austin, is that we're willing nonsense from. I'm really good.

Oh, I heard a joke about that the other week.

What's tell? Tell a joke again.

What's the only thing worse than giving head to win nocte? What if he says i'm not really else?

What is the pair? I know he's not funny. He's Better. He thinks he's Better on twitter, but that's not nice to say right in front of his face. Just think how he feels.

This statue is chance. Murder is judging .

you chance.

It's called chance murmur.

Chance murmur got that so beautiful. That's gorgeous.

This is this another I hate cynical m and I talk about this a lot. Even you stand etsy. There are so many small, not huge companies like individual artisans s who are creating great stuff um and just making IT happen. And it's really sad for me where people can see that or they're like, well, how could I be excited about a sculpture when ba ba ba the middle is and it's just like you can always look for excuse that look for joy or you can look for excuse to look for joy.

Yeah credible. I feel the same way about only only stands can even get that out of my mouth before laughing and my own failed joke.

That's what he said and did oh .

ah alright, that maybe one of the first that's what he said from a Michael mAlice. Yeah, i'm going to count that.

I don't know. I can do mine because I got my own minds, three feet tall.

just like so much bigger. Yeah, I was giving me an inferior complex. I think i'm gona invade russia. As an a polling reference. For those in the audience.

I don't know. I think I put my bedroom was just the first thing I see when I .

wake up put in the bathroom. Well, do we get through everything?

Was thankful for? No, i've got a lot of things. And thank for photos.

friend's family, we said.

books i'm thank for for career. I am thankful for, I am thankful for. And I know people can lose their minds and I can hear them flipping out already.

I am thankful for social media. Yes, I am thankful. Sever reasons. First, IT is a way for people to make connections that they could have made in years past that if you got some weird hobby, you can find that at the person, weird hobby and you make that connection. It's a great way to stay in touch permanently for people. Otherwise you would lose touch with, you know whenever venue and it's also a great way to expose, uh, corporate deprivation when you have these organizations that dishonest. I think the community last thing and twitter is the great .

thing ever increase. I wish they would pay on the a attention the microsoft account more often.

You shouldn't encouraging anyone to pay attention to my twitter count. Yeah, it's a .

duster fire. And I mean, bridget, I mean, not here. SHE, I wish.

SHE, no. I mean, in in this where we're sitting, the joke Michael is. IT, yeah.

but I am just really glad about ah it's another way for people who before we felt very alone I know IT makes some people do feel low, but the other people makes them feel .

connected there's been A A lot of talk of boat anti semitism recently yeah what what's your sense about this is there is enticement ism like any other brand of hate. There's a lot of hate out there.

I don't think it's like any other brand hate because I don't think um racists or transform es or homophones or massaging ists or xenophobes argue openly or even not so openly for the killing of black americans, transgender people, gay people, women or immigrants. And it's not at least something that's talked about. It's something that has actually happened and not just the but just centuries of programs right there.

Is this a great book that I read many years ago, called the magnification of the jews can apply recommended IT I reit. And they live in this, the certain specific kind of em. And I I am not talking about people who, against this real something, I think specifically about jew hatred, they have this moral calculus that jews are the only people who are capable of gooder, evil, and jews are exclusively capable of ever.

For example, if you look at the George w. Bush White house, you had w, you had chaining kind of these arise, coin power on drum filled a lot of the new, new advisors. So if there's ten people in a room and there's one jewish son, it's his fault and the rest are due controlled.

So again, they they only exist as a puppet of juice in this kind of word view. And it's like that to me. If there were no juice on earth, IT is crazy to say that john bolton and list chi and linzie m when we be pushing for more war, that makes no sense to me.

It's like you blame the jews when bad things happened, but when a jewish person doesn't something good, IT doesn't really matter or just wait, he's he's going to do something bad. But yeah, that's true. Human beings do good things and they need bad things sometimes. But IT only counts when that jewish person does the bad thing.

I want to what's a way to fight antisemitism and fight hate in general.

I think the only were the best way, because I thought a lot about this, about how did gay americans go from being univerSally hated, despise, to the point that many people and eighties went to their graves, those who, at aides, without even telling their parents because they were so scared to. Now, time square is just covered in pride flags. And I think, and this, this also works for islamophobia.

And some, these other is what I call the ambassage program. Because as soon as you know someone who is a member of certain group, IT is a lot harder to be bigoted against them because instead of this being this out group that somewhere out there, it's like, great a minute. I work with this guy. Yeah, he's kind of a jerk. Maybe he sees things little differently than me, but the sky is not horrible him being so I think the only way to fight any form bigger is to be a good example of the counter to these um whatever archetype of steroid pe is in the culture.

Carl Marks wrote that religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a hartless world in the soul of a solid condition. IT is the opium of the people. As the famous race goes, do you think is a point?

No, I hate that quote. I absolute te IT. I despise this sort of reit internet atheist activism for the simple reason that I know many people who, in finding faith, have become objectively Better human beings here.

I mean, they start living consciously. They take morality seriously. They try, we, we all have to be moral good people.

So this nearing that these midwives, these marginal intellect people have towards religious people. Now lots of religious people use religion to rationalize their bad behavior. Or, uh, your simple or bigga s so in suffet that exists. That's true. But to say that IT never helps anyone and its univerSally the see Marks was talking about a period you i'll defend his quote when his argument was you know the masses are being starved and oppressed but they're promised you don't worry, you'll have riches in heaven so you should kind of let yourself be pushed around now and this is kind of this B S bargain that the people are being given so that was, I think, the point he was making it's not strong does not apply uh um nowadays um I I I close to the family in the midwest there good Christian people. I remember very specifically this guy shout out to him, john Sharon, I went to college with him David lucas, and have you checked .

out the coming motion .

is often and I you know I was seventeen eighteen freshman year and I was reading all this criticism in the bible and I was like, this is in there. Look at this there and he put his side of my shoulder and he says, Michael, there's nothing you're going to tell me. It's going to make me lose my faith and that was a very, uh, software and profoundly to say as i've got older and are lots of the religious people, there's no part of me that um thinks they're wrong where they should be marked. It's like IT also reminds me of when people is near at uh addix and recovery like alcohol, lisa and is a disease is a choice. It's like, wait a minute you don't know what it's like to have your entire life ruined by drugs, alcohol and if you have to tell yourself, you know I have this disease in blab a blaw and that keeps you from drinking and now you're a moral upstanding person who's reliable and that takes responsible for their actions I don't see the harm at all so I I think this kind of activist atheism is uh, cheap. I I don't agree with that whatsoever and I I do not like that .

quote at all um but otherwise big fan Marks .

I mean it's I I think there's a fan of mine after that who was apologies he had this great quote goes the gay and this is me talking he goes the games people play to feel smarter than others is depressing and annoying. And I think this kind of pandora intern atheism is a good example. Because here's the other thing, if you've proven that someone else is stupid, that isn't mean you're smart.

You could both be stupid. So congrats. You prove someone else stupid. Who cares?

Yeah when sneering invoke forms, yes, general is just .

not great. That's one of things. I block out people on social media instantly. You're not going to sneer at me in my space. You can see me all you want your space, but and the pinning of your crap.

I don't know you my space .

great social award is that six, six, three.

I will. That .

come, that comes.

Like a public elves dog, there was the sound before you get to see, spent ten minutes waiting for ign image of a lady load one line at a time. Everything talk to a just mere hammer. I do not know him at h so here's A C idea about offensive realism.

So way to analyze the world, international relations and the basic idea. And i'll run to buy you and see what you think is that states, nations want to survive, and they try to do so by maxims ing power, military power. And he talks about anarchy quite a bit in that one of these underlying assumptions of this way, you in the world is that states are an architect. Ds.

each other? Yes.

that's and they Operate under a lot of uncertain ty. States cannot be sure that other states will not use multiple abilities against them. They want to survive, and they want to use military power to a control the uncertainty, to protect .

themselves. So I, I, I disagree in that regard. And I I seeing your bookshelf, I think the world is a lot closer to brave new world than IT is two thousand and ty four.

And I think IT is, if you look at, let's suppose, china's influence in america, right? The influence is far more through soft power than military power. China isn't threaten amErica through we're going to kill you. It's more like their infiltration of universities, tiktok, things of that nature.

Maybe this would have worked before the pop culture error, but I think when the reasons we have this kind of american and gee isn't just a function of american military, I think it's much more of function of american public icicle ture. When you're exporting ideas and culture, IT makes other people in the countries feel closer to you and also feel regarded as a friend. And also to adopt your value is a great way to spread propaganda.

IT seems to corporate though, right? It's interesting, is an interesting idea. What has more power? The vial spread of ideas, or the the power of the military? IT seems that united states is a at the top of the world on both.

That's true. And so it's .

hard to distances to IT.

Let's look at europe. American culture is very popular in europe in many ways, right? Like the best music comes at a sweden swedish indy pop. They're singing in english, you know even so, worth none of this is a function, maybe a function of post world or two to some extent, but I think is the function of american basis. There, I think is the function of where exporting our music or T, V, shows and our movies.

Yeah, it's interesting if the battle ground will be brave new world.

the battle of ideas. I think it's clearly blame you, right? I it's so much cheaper. And again, this is when the dark size of social media to use influence than IT is to use threats.

I don't think, I think cover is a good example of this, like so much of the pressure. Yes, there was authority ism, but IT was the fact that everyone bought into IT, rightly wrong. Ly, but the vast majority of population worse behind all of these things. And that was through persuading, not cause and cause. People are begging for to come back in many cases.

So who's finding you?

我想 我 我 啥？

What's 啥？ This is how you do great interviewing. See, he didn't even expect that. Okay.

what's that mister pairt.

that mister pairt, you knew IT, but you didn't have any documentation. Ation.

did you? I think mr. Barry is threatened by the Better wings. A chance over.

He gets like that when he's turned down on thread. You can't wait this, all three of a ell alone together can be one hello party bigs .

and feathers.

every per and metal. Yeah, these things beautiful is ridiculous. You have actually a lot of really cool stuff at your place.

So what? What's what's a cool thing that stands out to you? Maybe a recent edition.

So I went to the dallas museum of art last year for my birthday, and there was a painter liked, and I googled IT, and I saw the option for that exact painting. And IT was like, I think three grand, which is not cheap, but not something, you think in a museum. I can never afford something like this, right? So when I was in um I went to houston with some friends, the site server uh lately who .

made a cake of you? Cake um terrify my mom.

This is IT yeah ah no.

it's not a cake that terrified my mom. It's you. Michael is cutting IT off, cutting the face off and laughing. Monica.

well, at least pregnant, she's going to have a daughter named daily. So congrats. nedley.

But I was in the museum with them, and there was a statue of thought, whose the egyptian god, whose head son I bus is a bird, long beak, and thought is the god of the moon, god of knowledge. And supposedly he granted writing. So I thought, you know what? I always loved engine egypt.

I know a lot about IT in the special methods. Gy, if we really cool, as an aspiring author, they have an ancient egypt, thought that you in my house, well, IT turned out that the egyptians also killed in memoried ibis and buried them with scribes. And a week after I went to the museum, there was an auction for an eye.

S, mommy, and I have IT now in my house, still in spandau. Es, overlooking my desk. And we all know going to come to life and pack up my eyes.

yeah. And right with my blood. But that is one of the recent call editions. Another thing I have, which is like in terms of holy crap, i've made IT um I have an original Patrick neal painting and if people don't know the name, he's like the eighties artist. He did render and cover every every nail salons.

I have a male, which we are very rare for him to do so that's to my kind of favorite. He only drew women predominated. I have won where we drew a male, like is a guy and like a gene or something. And now looking forward to so, jake made me a three foot le sculpture called future murmur, which I am static to get determine .

yourself home. How many fascinating, beautiful people are out .

there and just the Victory in in holiness and technology and speed and how many people have.

you know.

thoughts so that I could do what I do?

Yeah, that's another thing i'm grateful for, just like a hundred billion or so people they came .

before .

us yeah and and also the trAiling platforms they came before that oh god.

i've gone down this this trial bike rabbit hole buying fossil because as a kid I thought trial but with the cold staying and I ve ve got like fifteen yeah and what's interesting is when you buy trial bike fossil on ebay, their listed is used because it's got to be newer used and the programing that's used yeah .

yeah i'd be just look thinking about all that history, just all the life forms that came before that seems like a really special thing. We have gone on earth .

here yeah I think that's that's very fair to say. But I you also think this kind of is like live life to the fullest. The camo talked about living to the point of tears yeah, especially on behalf people didn't have that privilege.

So, you know, I dedicated the White pill to my parents who got me out the soviet union and all the kids who never could. And it's like, what I die. I want everyone else to, not only there are obviously can be happy, but yeah, like i'm not here, enjoy what you live for me because I can't have that .

privilege what you think about como's a writer I don't .

like his novels at .

all or you don't at all yeah, you've talked shit .

about the plague to me yeah, I think the book is pointless fast because all you need to do read the synopsis and then you get IT like I don't .

think is was not true for most books. Now I mean, like you could take adam, I just don't agree at all there. I mean, it's it's ketchin the right there's a lot of books there seem trivial.

I don't think that seems trivial, but I think animal farm, animal form is a methodical step by step examination of a transformation from one thing another. The plague .

is not that with methodical examination of what a society is like under the play, which could symbolize a lot of things, including the play directly or not in germany or ideological movements. Or it's it's similar to animal farm, maybe not as effective in terms of using this kind of symbol.

Farm has a narrative and i'm going to spoil the home plake the book the plague okay, is there's a town I believe in on on. A plague dissents. People struggle to deal with IT, and the plague vanishes the quickly that came the end yeah.

there's the victims, the people that take advantage of IT. There's the doctor that emits the absurd in evil of the plague is fighting to do good.

Nothing for me.

nothing okay is pull. Am a farm. There's .

pigs.

The animals are farm, and they, the humans, are abusing them. And the animals overthrow the humans. But then the pigs become just like the humans. The lesson, kids, is that, uh, power corrupts, no matter whether you walk on four or two.

I thought the last was the pigs are the most human like animals on the firm.

I thought, I thought the lesson where that there's no sure a Candy mountain. Even if ed, a lot of people, yeah, what have you learned about getting to the soul of a person? Solve an idea for an interviewing. Just hard to do a good interview first of that .

viewing just random people interviewing people who are accomplished. It's not a random group that self selecting for something different but I think that people um love to and this is very understandable, love to feel seen. So if use someone who's done something, even if you're like the best getting a breeder in amErica to have someone interested in your work and ask and listen to what you're saying, cause I remember every book i've read, you know, I have friends and I wouldn't stop talking about you is a personal writing worth or the north korea at a certain point? I'm sure they're like, I am care of this anymore but like IT takes over your brain. You don't mean so if you are someone who has an interest hobby, i'm sure some extent maybe your friends or family say you're talking about IT or you don't want to talk about with the one have that's the private life you could just be yourself so I tried to and this comes from my coauthor background when i'm talking people to ask questions that they haven't heard before. Um there is a possibility uh that this actor of a huge fan of um is gonna be on my show, want to everything and he's got a very specific role that he's known for and I know i'm going i'm like, okay, i'm going to I know it's going me knowing for you talking about this one role, but my goal is ask questions that you aren't big events asking.

Having been post ster .

is not a poster that .

joke fell. So add out, what do you know about britain? Ginny pigs, you mention that I love to hear, I don't know. I D love to hear more about IT this.

I always use this as an example. I said, there's there's you you meet someone, a party who breeds getting picks, right? There's two approaches.

Either you're weird, get okay or set down. Tell me everything there and very much. And all the people I like are the second group. When you meet someone who do something usual and our passion about IT and you know, are good at IT like that to me is the motherlode.

yeah. That to me also is the thing. And the most is because it's a passion about you.

Do you guys hate? You guys hate the hammer people? Do you hate the rabbit people? There's got with someone that you guys look down on because like the marine aquire an people look down the fresh water oquirrh people.

Yeah, it's.

yes, this always give me a hierarchy. This is where the left and a and I disagree because they think you could have galatea ism.

It's gonna a hierarchy hierarch emerge. Yes, there's no energy in the gini c world.

No, it's just a different kind of thing.

Somebody y's always breaking somebody else, yes, and looking down on the others.

If someone is the other, yeah either is the hamster people.

the rats people and everybody y's breathing yeah, by the way, are you are an art capitalist? What kind of worth liver of .

energy story? I an ana, that adjectives, I like them all. The black flag comes in. Many .

right now stand. There was beautiful line in the book. Thank you.

I think the anarch capitalists don't give the left energy is enough credit, especially for their courage. And I do whatever I can in my power to talk about people like, have a golden, whatever possible.

Do you still think god, that are some people Better than others is a good litera test?

Yes, it's work one hundred percent of time.

I feel you the answers.

Yes.

I. There's two of them. What are you getting a hit .

cockup in here?

好， careful。 I always got you back. What little habits in your life make you happy? nothing.

You're stone. Oh, my god. I was prepping for this interview and I imagine .

this coming up .

and I knew that as I explain this, you know how sometimes tells a story like I first is amusing then it's amusing concerned and they're like, holly shit like, where's the exit? Yeah.

i'm getting nervous already.

You should said i'm going to tell you something i've told only a couple of people. This is my absolutely off the charts autistic approach.

the shaving.

So I have this insane system. You have not habits I give me too. I used to hate having used to hate IT. There is something called wet shaving. So what shaving is, you get the brush, you get the soap that's in a canister, start up, you paying your face, and then you shave. The thing is, there are lessons of these shaving soap companies.

Yeah, okay.

So I tried a couple of hundred of these soaps because you're testing for sent you're testing for with the lather thickness and also how with the hait gives you, yeah, I have IT down and not making .

myself and .

not this creative. I haven't down to a cycle of sixty seven soap.

Yeah, okay.

so call a cycle. So sixty seven, yeah. When I use up one soap, that is a slot that I will have to try new ones.

And I will try new ones in that slide until I get one that I like. And then that flight is filled. So right now I have sixty seven that I use, and I have eighty .

six dites s do bel. And do you remember, like which one is? They all have beautiful labels.

I mean, these artisans are creating these basic things. So there I would encourage everyone to try this hobby. Who's a guy? It's so much fun.

I will give a shout out to the companies that that are the best. So the best company in my opinion is company called ah they just change the name because they don't like they originally called. I'm not joking, glooming department.

And now it's like.

yeah, but he has certain concentrations in the temple. So now he disco, yes, he changed them to iron skin care. A I O N.

That's the the sense of the most sophisticated, the most diverse. And the the soap is just really high quality. Another amazing company is barrister and man.

And if i'm going to tell you to try one, it's called chester. Ah he comes out new ones every month or so. H A lot of its miss, lot of its hit, just great, great quality stuff ah another great companies chidley face. They make something called midnight night stag, which basically smells like a garage. It's one of my favourite of all time.

Yeah, what what makes for good smile for Michael mouth?

I have sixty seven answers so someone can smell. Y industrial.

Some garage .

is more industrial. It's A A mighta. Some are fun because their smells that smell like other things. For example, there's a cent in my q called finding Scotty its song british fish um another great company is phoenix shaving um and they have one called a low a snack down to music in punch. They had one called uel ham that they made from a special smelser ham.

They had a roman one rock and roll in um smells a cup of noodles um so they are a greek and they every year they do an advent counter where you for twelve days you have a little sample of the soap and a sample of the after shave nice um so those are i'm forgetting someone and i'm feeling angry that i'm doing IT but those are some of the oh and katy's bubbles is great. Their vegan um at a new jersey they've got one called high to grape from the grape soda. Um I think those are the biggest names off the top of .

my will that list converge down to a small set eventually you know sixty seven down .

to is down sixty seven.

So also is always keeps right?

There's a lot then you know I mean, like i'll feel that so you .

will forever have the variety of six, seven, yes, ha, you know you you know how sad my brain is when I when you were telling me this, I was like, I wonder how many soap s are left in my mouse life, like, you can count your life by days, by months, by ears, or by soaps.

That is depressing that .

because each, each experience of shaving is a little beautiful experience. Yes, IT is many. Do you like your life? That's true. Yeah.

I gotto tell you that something else, there's a term called my friend jackie, tell me, called touching pen, is a makeup term. So basically, when you use IT and you can see the bottom, that's like a big moment.

What's a great thing? Yeah.

like what's kind of fun? I'm telling you, like people can scoff, IT is such a fun and there's a lot of us online or into this whole space. It's really, really fun. When is you first discover this? Can I curse?

Yeah.

fuck you. Coal striker. Cause I was staying. My friend calls house in you go is like when the biggest hipsters I know he's got the shirts with the poll snap everything and i'm staying in this house because I was doing rogan and he goes, oh, have you heard this wet shaving thing and IT goes, look, this one's per asso that's like the italian grand Foster, which is also a great one. And I went down this rabid hole and I am like, unt, I don't even know how many, how much money spent on this and it's all of him.

Oh, but it's like a happy fuckyou. Like, fuck you call that you call fuck .

you just thank you. Yes.

that's a good idea for that to fuck you call how your advice not be happy.

Yes.

there's a lot of loneliness and sadness in the world here.

I can give a very easy piece of your advice that worked a lot for me. Instead of telling yourself that you have these ridiculous standards, tell yourself I can be Better, right? I don't have to be a great writer.

I could be a Better writer. I don't have to be a great podcasts. Ter, that will never happen.

I could be a Better podcasts. Ter, I could be a Better person. I could be a Better, uh, the gym. I could be Better with my time.

And when you regard things in, though, and especially matrix, that you can go by, you know, for all all run this many miles a day, things you have control over if you especially males, when you have this chart and the data is telling you you're improving right away, it's like you have the sense of accomplishment so I think that is a really great way to uh and if something is not working in your life, let's suppose you don't have friends, right? There's the internet. How do people make friends? Try things out.

What's the worst that's gonna en you going to block on your face? Well, you learn something. At least don't be afraid of making mistakes.

When I was a kid, I was so scared of having things under control. So like, I would never have to get hit in the face, meteorite ally. And then I realized, and you realize this as well, everyone who's important, get in the face.

Look at the president, whoever the president is. IT becomes a matter of being strong enough that you could take getting in the face. So that is a big, important switched in your thinking .

yeah there's because he caught a row down. Sometimes you clip out of bed in the morning. You think i'm not gonna IT, but you laugh inside remembering all the times you felt that way yeah yeah it's a part of me that's like are some days where I feel like this is the worst day of my life and like shortly after, I think they chocolate at that yes, just knowing the option downs of the brain in the mind in life. And I let ever been the press.

Yeah, of course i'm more anxious and depressed. I don't want to get depressed like.

yeah, but i've been depressed yeah .

but I think I I distinguish pression between low points, right? Like if things are going bad and you feel bad, that makes sense. But I I when I think of depression, I think of someone who feels bad when things aren't bad. Like I said, it's by that to me, like almost by definition, irrational.

Well, there's different kinds of I like there's a exhaust. The kind of depression where you are not is not so sad as you're not. Don't anna do anything you you don't want to live, you don't want to what's what's what's the point yeah um and like an extreme self critical negativity, which are also scared of because my brain is generally .

very self critical.

You are in a um do you take directly .

or in the mouth do you take directly? Okay, but as for the magnesia and you should take IT as appeal.

okay, what the way your mom explained that that is is a way different ah what you most afraid of.

Holy quite that I I I trying think of anything afraid .

of in eight four or .

I thought the given if I wanted .

to torture you hypothetically .

well you do well they should accomplish. You know what I mean? I mean terms of i'm scared of increasing authority ism, but that's not personal and that's not that's something that I don't think is as much of an imminent concern is like the same canada .

scared to death? No think I was scared that no, he just accept .

that is it's a look I I I can I honestly feel like if I die tomorrow, I did pretty good with what I had like I I think I did think that mattered to me. I think I moved the middle on things that mattered to me. I think i've been a good a friend to the people I care about um i've saved couple of lives. So I I I think it's a very low bar for someone to be able to go there grave and say I left the world a Better place than I found that I don't think it's .

that hard in european betrayed.

Oh god. Yes, of course, every you.

Not as often as I would have predicted.

Yeah, the russian of bringing is, like, expects everyone to be like, this is a time bombed before the, of course.

Yeah, we value .

all I do. And I also made IT a point to not let that betrayal color my future directions and regard that as the universal or the norm. Yeah, I think it's .

very important me too.

And also, I feel bad I gotten less enough that I feel bad for the person who betrayed me because it's just like they didn't need to do this. And at some point, if you betrayed someone you know and you know you're not a good person, I believe that yeah .

but given if you tell .

yourself there's something I had to do, you still know you had to do a bad thing to someone who didn't deserve IT.

And that's a really hard pills to swallow in my situation. I still think good thoughts and empathy.

The people I ve done me, I don't empathy, sympathy with them.

My english is not good enough to know the difference.

Empathising means you putting yourself in their shoes. Sympathizing means you feel bad for them and and wish them well.

I watch the well.

yeah but I don't put my self ec. It's very hard for me to empathy with someone who betrays someone that they care about because that something it's not that just I think i'm such a great person is that I feel guilt very strongly. If I did that to someone who trusted me, I would really, you would fuck on my head for IT a long time.

Yeah, but maybe they were in pain, maybe they were desperate, maybe to the to the wall. They felt that .

with that sympathy thing, and I really .

everything yeah yeah. What is a fascinating. Yes, I very trust a lot.

I know you do, especially because you such a, both of us were in very public positions. You have be very careful who is surround yourself .

with IT socks does IT well, is sucks because it's hard to A. As I usually just trust everybody.

that's okay. That's crazy.

But was the alternative .

to be have a filter.

but I have a filter in terms of going right with OK within the, you know, I see the good people, but then you IT in in the very instance. Is that my turn? okay? And yeah, I just sucks braces. My heart.

Yeah, I hear you. I completely great.

Has your heart ever been broken?

yes.

love?

yes.

I'm just so relax right now. Good, happy, relax and happy, good. This is making me really happy.

It's so again, it's beautiful and like eight different levels, I think .

that's the deepest thing um thankful for. It's just how beautiful people are, how beautiful .

the world is. I really in people going to laugh, and I welcome IT. It's fine. I really sometimes feel like the guy in american beauty looking at the plastic bag, dancing in the wind, and he's brought to tears because of how much beautiful life is. And a lot of people feel they need to clear at that scene and and Ricky pets, whatever. And I think he's got IT exactly right.

I think he does too well in the end. D and I will be both laughing.

that's exact end right? And also seeing beauty where others people see garbage. And i'd rather be the person who sees beauty than the person who sees garbage.

Yeah, well, when I look at you as a beauty, when most people see garbage in is really unfair, mister pett, that you keep saying that. But all jokes aside, man, i'm really grateful for your friendship. I'm really grateful for you are as a person.

Thank you so much for talking the day. Thank you so much for talking to me throughout all these years. Thank you for being who are.

You are welcome.

Thanks for listen to the conversation with Michael mAlice. To support this pot guests, please check out our sponsors in the description, and now let me leave you some words from under guide. Man cannot discover new oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of the shore. Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.