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Can I get an update please? Hey mister, can I-
Get a spare update, please. I'll give you an update. You're fat again. It's a tumor. My belly is growing. Hey, everybody. This is... Last update on the left. Whoa, what is that, Marcus? I'm Henry Zebrowski. I'm Marcus Parks. And with us also is Ed Larson. Hello. I'm an idiot. Yep.
So we have a new show. What? We have a third show for everybody. Wait a second. I'm doing a third show? Yeah. All of us are doing a third show. Wow. Yeah. God. Yep. Time isn't real. No. Yeah. Wow. We're doing a third show. Yeah. And it is, it's really wonderful. It's called Last Update on the Left. What we're doing is, because we've been doing this show since Zoomers were come, we are taking a look back.
at old topics, old ideas, and we're giving them a refresh. Yep, we're going to be looking at what our takes were back then and what we were doing with those shows and what information was available at the time on these topics.
And, you know, in the 10, 15 years since we've done some of these things, a lot of new shit's come out. In the 10, 15 years that we've done these things, not much new has come out. But our views on these subjects can sometimes change. So that's what the update show is all about. And I don't really know much about it. Yeah. It's good for me to learn. Yeah. Yeah.
Teaching Ed about all this cool shit. So we're going to start the update show. We're going to give you guys a little bit of preview here. The show is going to be available only on the SiriusXM app. Don't worry. Last podcast on the left and side stories. Nothing changes there. Those shows are still absolutely free, but you can find this show on the SiriusXM app. But for now, you're going to get the first one free.
Yeah, but then you get addicted and then you got to come back around. And sometimes, well, maybe I ain't holding. And then you're going to get desperate and you're going to start fucking being my butler. So we're going to start with an update on an old favorite, one of the most popular true crime stories in the history of man, the murder.
of john benet ramsey i didn't do it neither did i now who is that j-o-h-n benyay i love benyay exactly see i knew i'd get him in there john benet ramsey i hope she's okay let's go for it so should i not begin this
With an act out of JonBenet Ramsey? How does it go? I don't remember. I don't remember his JonBenet Ramsey. I don't, because we recorded this so incredibly long ago. See, the only reason why I remember is how many times I've received emails, people being really angry with my bit. Now, did you get more positive or more negative emails? Only negative. I remember. But at the same time,
Don't I like making people angry? Why do I remember tea for two? Well, yes, it was. It was JonBenet Ramsey singing tea for two and then asking if they could make a sexual act upon God.
Welcome to Last Update. That was from a long time ago, buddy. That was a long time ago. I'm Marcus Parks, living in 2024. Henry Zabrowski, are you ready? You're not living in 2011 anymore, are you? No, no, I've been dragged forward. I am here now. The only way I will play JonBenet Ramsey is
Finally, in a blind casting situation, which should happen, I should be allowed to play JonBenet Ramsey in a film. Yeah. Because I think if you don't allow me, you're shutting me down. That's cancel culture. I didn't know JonBenet Ramsey was a lesbian because we all know that God is a woman. Whoa.
Interesting. You see, this is really- Hot takes. Wow. Hot takes. So we thought we were going to come out the gate and make us not make everybody mad. Yeah. Yeah. It's too late. There's no way to do it. We're going to talk about JonBenet Ramsey again. Yeah.
Yeah, we had, well, I mean, I was about to say, we had a lot of fun with our JonBenét Ramsey series. But it was interesting. There was a lot of interesting stuff in the JonBenét Ramsey case, as there always is. I mean, the crazy thing about JonBenét Ramsey is that, like, the JonBenét Ramsey subreddit is...
is still highly active every single day. Oh, yeah. It does not stop. People do not stop talking about this case. And we'll cover one of the latest updates that just came out about a month ago. Like 60 Minutes Australia did a whole thing with John Ramsey. This shit refuses to die. It's kind of like the millennial version of D.B. Cooper. Yeah. In a way where there are so many...
Theories. Theories are still flying around because there has been no real tangible new evidence that has come out. We don't know. Except there's one piece that we will talk about that I do think is very, very interesting. But the one thing that all of the new information that has come out since the R series and the information that was available at the time has convinced me even more so.
And this is controversial that the parents did not do it. I don't think necessarily that the Ramseys did it. I think at this point it's controversial if you think the Ramseys did it. I know. If you think the Ramseys did it, you're a fucking moron. No, that is untrue. It is still extremely mainstream to think that they did it. We will immediately receive many emails saying that there's a difference between being cold, emotionally unavailable parents and...
and being ones that murder their children. Yes, that's a huge difference. There isn't a single piece of evidence that points towards the Ramseys. In fact, every single piece of evidence points away from the Ramseys. Well, there are specifics, but then it seems to be who else would know that information that would allow that to be included, especially in the ransom note. We're going to go through in some detail. It's such a sloppy murder to not be wrapped up. Yeah.
Well, that's the thing about it is that, and we talk about it in the series. The OG series, yeah. Yeah, the OG series is the reason why it was not wrapped up and why it was because the Boulder Police Department was highly incompetent.
A lot of things got fucked up in the investigation. They got really, really fucked up. Well, let's go through. Before we really get into it, let's have a bit of a refresh of what happened to JonBenet Ramsey. I need it, so please. Yay! Oh, Marcus, what happened? Yeah, is she okay? No!
Marcus. Maybe this time the ending could be better. She grew up and became Katy Perry. Oh! Well, actually, we will get to that at the end. That was a very real thing. I've heard of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the body of six-year-old JonBenét Ramsey was discovered by her father in the basement of the Ramsey home on the... Well, okay, actually, I should do this. Maybe go a little true crime voicing. Please.
The body of six-year-old JonBenet Ramsey was discovered by her father in the basement of the Ramsey home on the afternoon of December 26th, 1996. Her body was left beaten, strangled, and sexually assaulted. JonBenet Ramsey was found dead in the basement of the Ramsey home on the afternoon of December 26th, 1996.
JonBenet's mother, Patsy, realized her daughter was missing after finding a ransom note on the kitchen staircase demanding $118,000. It was unusually long and presumed to be staged after the FBI determined the only fingerprints were from Patty and other officers. JonBenet's father, John, pointed out that money was the exact amount he received as a Christmas bonus. Oh, what a wonderful little this must be again.
gift list left by a curious young child. Oh, fat cats? I don't have $180,000. I don't know what I would do about this. Oh, down to the basement. Holy shit. It's not me. Santa doesn't have a dick. There is a theory that Santa Claus did it. Mm-hmm.
I have heard about this. From who? It was in the casting, JonBenet. You heard it from Hanukkah Harry. Hanukkah Harry's like, I tell you what, that Kris Kringle's a son of a bitch.
Patsy called the police at 5 a.m. on December 26th. Two police officers responded to the Ramsey house within three minutes. The police did not find any sign of forced entry. John made immediate plans to coordinate the ransom payments, while forensics swept the house. JonBenet's bedroom was the only room in the house cordoned off to prevent contamination of evidence. The police determined this was a kidnapping case.
Meanwhile, friends, family, victims' advocates, and the family's minister all came to the house to pay their respects. One friend even cleaned up the kitchen and possibly destroyed evidence. Yeah, there was a lot of problems. Ton of problems. Inexperienced investigators destroyed a lot of evidence. There was evidence that was left at the scene that was not really tied into anything because we now know that there was a window with scuff marks and there was luggage that was left out. There was a lot of stuff. And then...
Her body was also horribly mutilated, and she was sexually assaulted. I mean, you're getting way ahead of us here. Oh, is it bad? No, I mean, I'm going to be talking about all of the mutilations.
I mean, come on. There's one thing to just say. Her body was super mutilated, but come on, you know? Do it. Yeah, what happened to her? The autopsy revealed John Bonnet was killed by strangulation and a skull fracture. Although no semen was found, there was a vaginal injury. The paintbrush was used to strangle her.
The bristle end of the paintbrush was discovered amongst Patty's art supplies. They found pineapple in her stomach contents. John and Patsy both claimed they didn't feed JonBenet pineapple Christmas evening.
See, that's better than just saying she was dragged out and she was mutilated. I didn't know the pineapple thing. The pineapple thing does come up and it does hurt people later on. Yeah. Well, that's the thing is that they didn't actually find the body until 1 p.m. Yeah. That's when John and his friend Fleet White swept the house to see if anything seemed amiss. They were kind of just giving John something to do. Yeah. Like he's just kind of milling around. It's like, all right, just go check all the doors like top to bottom.
all the rooms top to bottom. And then that's when they found JonBenet. Her mouth was covered in duct tape. Her wrists and neck were bound by a nylon cord and a paintbrush. And her torso was covered in a white blanket. And the police also failed to secure even that crime. They failed to secure even the crime scene where the body was found because Jon picked up the body and carried it upstairs. And the cops didn't stop him. They didn't say anything like,
no, no, no, this is a crime scene. Like it was completely fucked. That's the reason why, like, that's why this crime, while it was so sloppy has still never been solved. Probably never will be solved. Didn't they fuck up too with like footprints outside and they were like, they were, they didn't card off the front lawn and there was snow. And so we couldn't figure out whose footprints were,
They just said, like, oh, there were no footprints leading to and from the house. But that was just to kind of cover their own ass because...
That's because somebody had to have left and returned to the house at some point because all of the stun gun that was used to shock her was never found anywhere. Well, that's a new revelation. That's brand new. That's not brand new. Actually, we talked about it in our series. I thought that the stun gun mark was just recently confirmed to be a stun gun mark. Bill James talked about it in his book, Popular Crime. We talked about it. That's been the stun gun. Oh, no.
Has been around for a long time. Yeah, because also stun gun technology wasn't really new. Like, it wasn't, how do you put it? It hadn't been fully modernized. So it was like, it was kind of very, very specific to see that it was a stun gun mark on her body. How much of a pussy is this murderer that he has to stun gun a little girl before he bludgeons her? Well, what it is, it's stunning her. Like, the theory is that he stunned her in her bed. Hey, you keep saying he.
It could be a woman. Didn't they find male DNA? No, no semen. No, they did find male underneath their fingernails. Oh, yeah, they found male DNA under their fingernails. Again, didn't match the father, didn't match the mother, didn't match the brother. Matched nobody. I mean, that's the thing. The FBI ruled the Ramseys out within like
few days. Like, it was the Boulder Police Department's like, no, it's the parents. But you don't understand. That's because her father was creating the computer program that helped plan 9-11. I remember. And so he got cut out because he bought the judges to have them not look into the case. I remember. And it happens all the time.
time and it's not a difficult process and certainly you're not watching the former president of the United States of America struggle with the own judges he hired and there's you know for a fact that it's so easy to flip them yes indeed
But, you know, that's what we, like, that's basically what we know. And then there was a, you know, the ransom note was very long. Talk about fat cats. Yeah, talk about fat cats. It was signed SBTC, you know, which nobody has ever really figured out what SBTC means. It's, you know, and the biggest thing about it. Single boy titty committee. Yeah.
Just thinking. Just spitballing here. And, you know, of course, the big thing is that JonBenét Ramsey was a child pageant star. Yeah, it was gross. She had won a ton of prizes. She was basically the biggest child pageant star in America at the time. She was the goat while she was still a kid.
Go to eddytoons.com. eddytoons.com. Like, any time. If you really want a thinker, if you want one that you have to stop for a second. One that you can roll around while you're thinking about the details of the JonBenet Ramsey murder case. eddytoons.com is where you can go to book this modern genius. Even more of that.
I got a question about her. Do you think her body ever left the property? No. She was never actually kidnapped. No. So what's the purpose of the note? I have an idea, but we'll get to it. Yeah. Well, let's go through some of the suspects that we didn't.
in our JonBenet Ramsey series, starting with Bill McReynolds. Police sources never considered Bill McReynolds or his wife Janet serious suspects, but Patsy and Jon referred to him, Bill McReynolds, as a suspect in their book, The Death of Innocence. Now, who was he? He was the guy who was hired to play Santa Claus. He was Santa Claus. He did not.
Santa Claus. He would never kill a child. He would never get back at all these children who force him to work. All these precious Christian children each December forcing me to work. When I got here, my suit was white. Well, Bill had been hired. He was a retired University of Colorado journalism professor. Apparently, a very sweet man who just played...
That was kind of his retirement job, hiring himself out to be Santa Claus. Guilty! The man's guilty! Patsy hired him to play Santa Claus at their Christmas parties in 1994, 1995, and 1996, which was the year that JonBenet was killed, because JonBenet was killed right around Christmas. It was Christmas Eve that she was killed? It was Christmas night.
It's Christmas night, the 25th going into the 26th. I believe. Yeah, because the Ramseys had a holiday party on December 23rd. And, of course, he also, Bill McGrentles, had a little bit of a connection to JonBenet Ramsey. He said that she gave him a vial of glitter gold on Christmas one year and that no child had ever given him a gift. It'll be in Santa. So he took the glitter with him to this heart operation. I don't.
That's nice. Because it's like, it's nice from a little girl. Every one of these men's description of JonBenet Ramsey makes me like upset. You know what I mean? Like, I know how to put this. Like, I love our friends kids. Yeah. But I don't see them
You know, like, I kind of see little blobs. Well, all of our friend's kids are very young. Sure. They're all toddlers. Like, they're just now starting to get personality. Yes. But I'm just saying that, like, when I look at children, I don't, like, register children. No. Right? I don't think of children. I just know that I can't smoke weed too close. Yes. That's what I've been asked to do by society. Yeah. I know I have to watch my step. But this man describing a nine-year-old as tense. Six-year-old.
This is when she's six? Yeah. With a pensive, almost retiring demeanor and an angelic glow? She's fucking...
Like, Charlize Theron? I mean, for a little girl, she is. She's a champion. 12 times over. She is a champion. So you're going to be like, you know, this kid's sexy enough for the national stage. We got to throw her out there so that I can imagine what she's like when she's an adult. You got to think of him like Santa Claus. A pensive, almost retiring demeanor with an angelic face.
Yeah, but that's what you say about a town dentist. Also, I'm not bringing glitter to a heart operation. That is... They didn't even try to bring glitter into a fucking bedroom. Imagine what it'd be like being like, oh my God, his aorta is fabulous.
Well, this guy was at the Ramsey home for their holiday party on December 23rd. That is why he was questioned for the first time, because he was one of the many people in and out of the Ramsey home in the days leading up to JonBenet's death. I hate to tell you this, okay? I know you guys all think I did this, me being Santa Claus. But what if I told you I couldn't possibly have done this? Because unfortunately, I am gay. LAUGHTER
If they would have found her in the chimney, they'd be like, oh, she's covered in coal. Yeah, and get, like, reindeer fur on her. Yeah. Well, and her wish would be difficult. And Christmas wouldn't be the same, would it? This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Finding work-life balance can be tough, but Squarespace gives you the tools to reach your goals and have time to celebrate.
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Well, an original prosecutor on the case told CNN that Bill McReynolds gave JonBenet a card that year with a message saying, You will receive a special gift after Christmas. I just can't do a fat guy voice. I'm not fat. Yeah, yes. That wasn't bad. No, it's not bad, but it's... You gotta gain more weight around the throat. Oh, yeah, that's right. My throat's too skittish. You will receive a special gift after Christmas. Let me try it like this.
You will receive a special gift after Christmas. You weren't really getting to the bees. It's the bees that really worked out. Let me show you. Here's my fat man voice. Hey, Marcus. He did it to himself. He did it to himself. He did it. A good roaster can roast himself. As a matter of fact, he roasts himself first each morning. That's right. That's right. My nuts.
Well, there was also the fact that his wife, Janet, had written a play with eerie similarities to the case. The plot revolved around the real-life murder of a 16-year-old girl from Indianapolis who was molested and tortured before being left dead in a basement. So it was like a farce or a musical? A seussical. Yeah.
The McReynolds family also had a tragedy on December 26, but 22 years earlier in 1974, when their daughter and her friend were kidnapped and the daughter witnessed her friend be sexually assaulted. No one was ever charged for the crimes. Could be that person.
Yeah. The McReynolds told police that they were extra sensitive to the nature of this crime due to what happened to their daughter. Yeah, it sounds like she wrote the play about what happened to their daughter. I think she just tried to deal with it. Yeah. People try to deal in a different way. Yeah, I'm not saying in a bad way. I'm just saying like, yeah, that's why she wrote that play. It's not about killing JonBenet Ramsey. No, it's about what happened to their fucking family. I think so. The couple gave handwriting and hair samples to the police, never formally linked to the murder, but
They got enough shit. They had to deal with enough bullshit. They fucking moved to Cape Cod. Oh, yeah, sure. So they could just end up, you know, Bill McReynolds died of a heart attack in September 2002. Now he can go up to heaven and meet the real Santa. A weird old Greek man named Nicholas. Yeah.
You know, that I believe he like crawled out of the gut of a deer or something. You know what I mean? You know those old like timey style like miracles? Where he's like, you old man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Give me more little people. Well, so, okay. Bill McReynolds, not a suspect. Not a suspect. Not a suspect. Glad we spent that time. Yeah.
But there's Candy Cane Man, who sounds very much like a creepy... Candy Cane Man. Candy Cane Man. I'm Candy Cane Man. This suspect took one of the decorative candy canes that line the front walkway at the Ramsey's house the night of the murder. He removed it from their yard a week after the murder, quote...
Because it was there. Oh, like Mount Everest. Yeah. I mean, we used to do that. We used to steal people's lawn stuff around Christmas time. Yeah, I mean, a little girl was raped and murdered in the house, but yeah. You don't want to do it all the time. The last thing they want to do is see candy canes. It just reminds them of their little girl. I'm helping them out. I don't know. I think, honestly, Patsy Ramsey is a very strange woman, so I do think that she might have been like, the candy cane's gone. She might be that style of like, that was supposed to be 27 candy canes.
Now that's only 26. How much else are we supposed to lose? What else bad can happen at Christmas? Again, a very strange woman. Yeah. But not a murderer. I must change my sweater. All the police officers are here. Yeah. Like Jane Curtin in Coneheads.
However, it turns out some of the candy canes were missing on December 26th when JonBenet's body was found. The investigators believe the killer or killers could have taken them as a souvenir of sorts, so they turned their attention to their man, who also once admitted to having an obsession with JonBenet and built a shrine to her that he now keeps on his laptop. I'm gonna say the JonBenet Ramsey shrine seems to be a thing that keeps popping up.
And it's kind of rough. It's really common. It seems to be a lot of these guys. It's disturbingly common. Yeah, and I do see why, as soon as I know that you have a John Bonet Ramsey shrine, like, you do end up on the list of subjects. Oh, without a doubt. On the suspects. You're going to be on that list. Yeah, you're going to be questioned. Yes, someone's going to come and look at you. Because, again, it's just hard to, like, it's...
If she had a TV show, we can maybe talk about it. Like if she'd put on an album, you know what I mean? But you can't just, how do you put it? Make a shrine to a-
Yeah. She never knew how famous she got. No, she would have been so happy. She would have met Amanda Bynes. Yeah. Nope, but this man voluntarily provided a DNA sample and was cleared when it didn't match the samples found underneath JonBenet's fingernail. He aggressively offered a DNA sample, which I did not like. And he's painting the...
police department with my DNA. Oh, what you want, eh? Listen, so, do you want some from today or from last week? Because I save each droplet of cum. Every time I think of JonBenet Ramsey, I try to save each droplet of cum I express, even thinking about her, just so that maybe one day, if I could bring her bones back to life, I can put a child inside of her. Is that enough? Am I being detained? Not guilty! Ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha!
Well, the big, like, to-do. I wish I was guilty. I wish it was me. Don't you wish? God, what it would have been like to do it. So excited. I wish I could have been there. Well, the big to-do when it came to dominate Ramsey's suspects. I wish it was me. I, ah, my dream role.
The big to-do came in 2016 when Burke Ramsey, JonBenet's older brother, he was the one who was nine at the time, right? Yes. Yeah. He was nine. He was nine. He went on the Dr. Phil show and spoke about his sister's disappearance for the very first time. And his...
on the show, he was, again, weird. Yeah. Like, he was a weird guy. Yeah, because he was. He was smiling a little bit too much for people's liking, and of course, they all started pointing at her. He did it, he did it. The most popular theory that Burke did it is more or less that he got up for a midnight snack of pineapple
and when JonBenet heard him, she got up, followed him to the kitchen, she stole some of his pineapple, she had an undigested pineapple in her stomach when she died, so he lost his temper, hit JonBenet over the head with a flashlight, the family panicked, and Jon and
Patty staged the scene to make it look like a stranger broke into the home and then they wrote the note and they called the 911. And that's the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard in my life. Yes. And they say, apparently, if you listen to the 911 call, the original one is that you hear John saying, we're not speaking to you. Patsy saying, what did you do? While Berk was replying, what did you find? And.
I just think it sounds like the normal chaos of a family finding that their young daughter is dead in their basement. It's missing. Yeah, but still, I think that that's... You're frantic. Yeah, the day after Christmas, your child is missing. Yeah. You're freaking out. Yeah, you just found a ransom note. Also, I just saw casting JonBenet, and they're like, could
a nine-year-old boy really crack a girl's skull open with a mag light flashlight and then they hired all these nine-year-old boys to crack watermelons open with a mag light and it's just immediately bam bam holy shit but also a human head is much tougher than a watermelon is a six-year-old's head tougher than a watermelon
Maybe not. Let's go find out. Excuse me. I'm just going to go down the street. There's a child. You see, we have that dance school. Yeah. Yeah. Let me go find out. You know, this is the issue is that this is one of those where I'm just immediately like, I can't even.
ingest. Yeah. It's just so fucking dumb. They, they point towards Burke had chat in his sister's bed and they had some conflicts and he had how sort of violent outbursts, a burst against her once before. I don't see I'm now, you know, maybe what it is. It's hard. Maybe I can't always extrapolate, but I've seen a lot of police investigation footage. I've seen a lot of it. And,
And the concept, and from what I've read in my years of reading true crime, the concept of parents covering for one child is extremely rare. I don't. For the murder of another child from within the family. Rare? I can't name a single fucking example. I'm being fair. I'm saying that I've not really heard, unless you're the Murdoch family.
Unless you're literally a crime family. Like, the Murdoch family is now will be known in history as a crime family. Yes. You know, like, Lori Vallow, Chad Daybell. That's a crime family now. That is a thing that they are committing. They're doing all this, but, like, there's... But even then, the Murdochs weren't, like, you know...
It's fucking insane. Yeah. It's just like one of those things that it's just very, it's, it's outliers. Yeah. And so the idea of someone covering for their kid, it does to me, does it necessarily make sense?
It just doesn't make sense. I don't really understand why you would do that when you already... Because it's like the two kids are gone. You're just going to get blamed yourself. It's going to be a whole thing. But the evidence just isn't there. And also, why keep the child... If you're going to do that, why keep the child in the house? She also didn't die from the head wounds. The head wound is not how she died. She died from the strangulation. So that is one thing. They said they didn't discover the head wound until after. They had lifted her body and they moved it. So it wasn't even that noticeable.
It was a head wound, but it wasn't like smashing a watermelon with a mag light. And it would probably be a lot more of a mess if a nine-year-old did it. Yes. That's what I think. Again, my opinion. But the thing that comes back with that is that it occurred in the kitchen. And remember, the family friends had cleaned up the kitchen accidentally. Cleaned up all that. So all that evidence is gone. And then the idea that they...
So Burke is nine years old. So Burke is nine. He's going to kill his little sister. Like, it just doesn't make any sense that you would go through all of the especially if you're going to fake it, if you are going to fake it and cover up for your kid. So then you're going to go ahead and sexually molest your dead daughter's corpse. Right. Like, might be hard language.
But if you're going to go ahead and do that, right? Like that's a whole, that's insane. And then you are now going to write a note that then with the number on it, that points to you. I still think that all of this is a fucking, this is all from the outside, but.
I absolutely... Oh, it's, of course, all from the outside. Oh, he's also... Yeah, of course he was weird. Of course he reacted weirdly after the fact. Of course he was... He didn't... He may not have disliked his... He might have disliked his sister. He was nine. You know, like he said that he drew a bunch of pictures of the family without JonBenet in it. He was probably like...
He probably got sick of her. She probably got all of the attention. Of course she got all the attention. You know, like she got all stuff. So in that way, like, yeah, maybe we're building more of like a case, but not for a nine year old, not for like normal. That's all. It's totally normal. Yes. You used to torture Jackie. You didn't kill her. Jackie was the physical one. She was the one that used to hurt me. And then I could hurt. I did. I'd hurt back.
And then my mom would come in and she'd start crying so fast. But then she'd start crying. She'd start crying. I was stuck. Didn't you pour milk on your chest and shake your breasts at her or something like that? That was when we were getting along. Yeah, that was when the... The man of the night? Yeah, king of the night. King of the night. Yeah, because I used to put my homecoming king crown on. And used to come in and pour milk all over my chest. Yeah.
And that made you king of the night. Yeah. Yeah. What was wrong, man? Well...
Now that we've gone through those old suspects, let's go through some of the newer ones that have come up since we recorded our episode. Did we talk about the housekeeper last time? I don't think we talked about the housekeeper at all last time. It wasn't in the notes. We have to talk about the housekeeper. We have to talk. We're going to do this right now. You go ahead. You go for the housekeeper. You take the lead on this. So one of the biggest issues.
I think one of the biggest, I think, red flags in here. So there is information in that. So we brought up the ransom note. So this ransom note was written. We know that there was a couple, quote unquote, like scrap draft ransom notes that were written and were found in the garbage. We know that the person who was asking for ransom was asking for a number that matched the
John Ramsey's Christmas bonus. $118,000. So they saw it, right? They saw that amount of money. And so there was some tie-in to their housekeeper. So another housekeeper who did technically sue and won a defamation lawsuit because she was named in the book in the death of innocence. Her name was Linda Hoffman Pugh. She was deemed a suspect because the statements being made by the police about her first up just asking for a loan.
The night after the murder, the police showed up at Hoffman Pugh's house and demanded that she write the number 180,000 on a piece of paper and then went to go get all the DNA to try to sort her out. Right. So she did not appear in the DNA that was underneath JonBenet Ramsey's fingernails. She said that one of her father, her husband and Patsy boats are like the housekeepers house.
The housekeeper tried to throw Patsy under the bus. So essentially trying to say that Patsy had multiple personalities. Where Patsy is just a run-of-the-mill, kind of like rich, aggravating woman. Yeah. Right? I think you can maybe see that, right? But it's very interesting is that Linda Hoffman Pugh had called Patsy a couple of days before Christmas. So she said her sister, who was her landlord, was going to evict her. And she didn't come up with her past due rent. Right.
She asked Patsy if she could borrow $2,500. Patsy consoled Linda and agreed to lend her the money. In fact, Patsy intended to leave the check for Linda on the kitchen counter before leaving for the Michigan trip, which they left when they came back, right? Which is what all this happened after they came back. Linda would let herself in the house and pick it up while they were gone for the holidays. And she would say weird stuff.
Should Linda remark one time, JonBenet's so pretty, aren't you afraid that someone might kidnap her? Which is like a fun thing. My mother used to say that kind of stuff all the time. That's just awful. That's 90s talk, like fear that everyone's getting kidnapped. Yes. So they got her out of there. So the theory is that Linda Hoffman Pugh led JonBenet into their basement, right? This is possible. What if, using pineapples,
Not much like she is a dog. Using pineapple. Yeah, using pineapple. But probably, honestly, probably feeding her pineapple and bringing her down because that was the thing that she really liked. Right? An attempt to trick her employers into leaving her money for ransom. So maybe. So there's some evidence pointing towards there could possibly be two people that have come into this house. So what if this housekeeper
Comes in that night, lets people into the house to quote unquote kidnap JonBenet Ramsey. They stun gun the little girl. They attempt to bring her down. She brings them downstairs. They stun gun the little girl. They attempt to do it. They kill the little girl in the process. They then have to figure out what to do with the body. This is why the piece of luggage was left out. That's why there's a scuff on the thing.
on the window is because they either came in, probably came in through the window and then tried to put the body into the suitcase, couldn't figure it out. And that's why there's also the effect. They were all trying to figure out what to do. This is where I, what? So they started playing with a vagina? Yeah.
No. No. Come on. Are you trying to get us sued? No, I'm just saying that this woman has already sued someone for defamation. No, not her. I'm saying there were two other people that were involved in this. So three total. Yes. And they came in to do the job.
To try to extract the money. Like, it was all just supposed to be a kidnapping and ransom. Something went wrong. And, you know, when we talk, if you're going to hire two guys to kidnap, like, I bet you there's a little bit of a chance that one of them might have other predilections and that might go a little too far in the room while you're dealing with something and then now you have to deal with it. I don't... No! So he's going to hire someone and this guy's just going to be like...
you know, I just can't help myself. I've got to molest this little girl right now. You know what's funny? Yes. I think that's exactly what's happening. And then what? They send the housekeeper up to write the note? Yes. And because she knows the, she knows, it's 85% match. It's just a theory. On the handwriting to Patsy? Well, you know, it's close. Well, the handwriting analysis is suspect. It's all over the place. It's all over the place. Like, I've seen people claim the handwriting matches like four different people.
That was something that we talked about in the altar of that it would like matched Patsy to 85%. But apparently the people who you like, they use some sort of like new technique that wasn't quite proven yet to match the handwriting. And it wasn't necessarily like it's all muddled. It's like everything in this fucking case, everything is muddled because they say that it matches like other people whose DNA doesn't match what was found underneath her fingernails.
It's just a fucking... It's a mess. The whole thing is an absolute fucking mess.
You want to get some new suspects? Yeah. Well, that was like, yeah, that's one theory. So you think the housekeeper did it? No, I don't think anything. I legitimately do. The housekeeper theory is a theory that people put forth. Yes. It is a theory. Yeah, it is a theory. If you even remotely knew them, you're a suspect, right? Yes. Yes. Yes. That is the absolute truth. Yeah. Because someone with inside knowledge made this happen. Maybe. Maybe.
Well, I think that that's the reason why there was a specific amount. The number. $118,000 is too weird. That is the thing that makes it all. You wonder what the fuck happened. How do they know that specific number? Well, it would point towards somebody at least being in the house beforehand because there was a pay stub in the house.
That said $118,000. Yeah, so it could have been somebody who's there all night, somebody just rolling around. Yeah, so that doesn't necessarily mean that somebody is there for an inside, that somebody knew the Ramseys beforehand. It could have been somebody who wandered into the house during the Christmas party and saw the pay stub. It could have been somebody who was rummaging around the house while everyone is asleep and saw the pay stub. Caterer.
Could be the caterer. Could be fucking anybody. Never blame the caterer. How else they get all that pineapple and boulder around Christmas? No, the caterer's how you get your fucking good drugs. Fly from your grave.
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Glenn Meyer's ex-wife Charlotte Hay said, quote, I believe my husband killed JonBenet. I knew he was capable of it. Cool. So you guys got on well. Glenn Meyer lived in the basement of JonBenet's now deceased elderly babysitters, Joe and Betty Barnhill, and apparently had a shrine to the slain child with pictures and newspaper clippings. That's two. Yeah. My mom.
at a shrine to Judy Garland. She didn't fucking put cigarettes in her throat. You don't know what happened. You don't know what happened between your mother and Judy Garland. Judy Garland is one thing. A child murder victim is another. Yeah, there's many shrines to Judy Garland all over America. Yeah.
Yeah. And JonBenet. Unfortunately. Unfortunately, yes. She's a cultural icon at this point. I know. You know why? Because again, if she had put out an album, she's not Selena. You know what I mean? She is. But she's beloved. I'm not saying, well, it's because she's...
How do you put this? It's because she's a beautiful little girl. Are you going to call her a no talent hack? I'm just saying, how'd she get this gig? Oh, so we're going to give Mark Twain prizes to everyone?
Well, this guy, Glenn Meyer, allegedly also had a photograph of a Navy Avenger aircraft in his basement with SBTC lettering on it. You know, the end of the ransom note said SBTC. The media site Radar Online claims that his handwriting matched the ransom note, but the handwriting analysis on this case thus far has been completely invalid with methods completely made up for this case alone. So who knows if this claim is conducive with factual handwriting analysis.
According to a news story, private investigators through the online group John Bonnet Investigations found they must have fun parties. Founder Roscoe J. Clark and co-investigator Derek Brommeridge traveled to Colorado and obtained a DNA sample from a discarded cigarette after pursuing and stalking Glenn Meyer.
Clark told Radar Online, These amateur investigators think that possibly two men were involved with the murder of JonBenet. However, nothing yet has come from the cigarettes.
Yeah, where's that information? Not there. It's been like six years. It's not out. These guys are like Bigfoot hunters. Oh, no, this is what we're saying. This is becoming a... It's a cottage industry. It's a pastime. It's people are... This is why, like, even as we put out this episode, we're going to get many people yelling about the things that we've done wrong or said wrong, which I understand because they were living their whole lives researching this, which is the truth. But it's also, you know, like, there's only so much you can...
Look into. You know, we hired our team. We put our whole team of researchers into it. And we're looking at this information. This is as much as we can find. Yeah. I mean, but that's the thing. You can't cover every single tiny little theory because, as you said, like...
Everybody who was connected to the Ramseys in any way was considered a suspect at some point. And that's the thing. Not necessarily considered a suspect by the Boulder police or by the FBI. More like these fucking internet sleuths. Also, when you re-look at this ransom note, I'm looking at it right now, and what I find interesting about it, which they also talk about all the time, is its length.
Like that it's extremely long. It's very long. It's 300 and something, some odd words long. And when they dotted the I's, they did the little circle instead of that. Yes. Which is very strange. Very specific. But all of that is done on purpose. I believe that the A's in this are specifically changed in order for them to look different. If you can look, it looks a little strange. If you looked at the... It's very... But...
The thing that points out to me is, number one, is that it's written very cleanly and legibly within the lines. They thought about what they were going to write. This is a planned thought. They thought about this. They had about 20 minutes alone in the house to do this. So whatever it is that they had, they knew what they were going to say, essentially. And they did talk about someone that knew something along the lines of police investigation. Yeah.
Or they acted like it. I just weird for Patsy Ramsey to write something like this. I don't know if Patsy Ramsey is going to write victory at the end of your ransom note. Yeah, after murdering the child. It's up to you now, John. Was this something about foreign powers or something like that? Oh, yeah. Like, yeah, I thought it was like a weird like. Well, it's because there is some there's not truth in it, but it was John. John Ramsey worked for a company that was a software company that worked for the government that had a bunch of government contracts.
and there was some story... Was it Lockheed Martin? No. Was it Lockheed Martin? Yeah, I think it was Lockheed Martin. I know they're in Boulder. I know that much. Yeah, it's Lockheed Martin. Yeah. From what I remember. John Bennett Ramsey. Oh, yeah. He was the executive officer of Access Graphics. It was a computer services company. Okay. And he worked with... And so Access Graphics had a...
It's interesting. It was just a year. There's a lot of ties to maybe they were doing work for a computer program that some people were trying to say was tied into all these 9-11 conspiracies and that he was a part of that. And there was like, so there that side, but that's what feeds that all of those conspiracy theory rumors.
Oh, yeah. There's a whole, like, JonBenét Ramsey is tied into, like, people tie it to MKUltra. People tie it to, yeah, 9-11 was an inside job. Like, this is one of those stories that people can plug whatever they want.
into it because it is so sloppy and there's so much shit going on and yeah I mean John and John Ramsey was a very connected individual he was involved in a lot of shit yeah so yeah there are a ton of you can make so many fucking connections to this case that you kind of lose what's right in front of you yeah who killed the Lindbergh baby
It was very similar. Oh, God. What was his name? We got to do that. Yeah, we're going to do that. I want to do, because Charles Lindbergh's a fascinating character. Charles Lindbergh's a massive piece of shit. Yeah, we should cover him. He's a fucking Nazi. Yeah, yeah. But, I mean, you know, fast.
No, he's fascinating. But yeah, he is a Nazi. That's what I'm saying. He's a Nazi. Yeah. He was like this American hero that was also a Nazi. Yeah, he's very interesting. But yeah, I think that the dingo did it. Well, let's move on to the next suspect, a guy named Gary Olivia. This guy is...
Okay. Okay.
Yeah, the understanding kids. Yes, the kids that will bring a weirdo in. It's like, yeah, scary Gary. We'll keep him around. He's scary. He's very scary. But hey, somebody's got to hang out with Gary. Yeah. Well, Leva continued writing to Vale following high school, and his letters became more dark and depraved by 1989. He started frequently writing about blood...
murder, cannibalism, and child rape. Within two years, Oliva was arrested for raping a seven-year-old girl and attempting to strangle his mother with a telephone cord. Very good suspect. Yes. Very good. This has got legs. In the years that followed, Oliva continued mailing Vale's sadistic tape recordings and locks of children's hair with newspaper clippings. Yeah.
In a letter to Michael Vail, Gary Oliva wrote, quote, I never loved anyone like I did JonBenet. And yet I let her slip and her head bashed in half and I watched her die. It was an accident. Please believe me. She was not like other kids. Yeah. In another letter, he wrote, JonBenet, ooh, mama see her.
completely changed me and removed all evil from me. Just one look at her beautiful face, her glowing beautiful skin, and her divine god body. I realized I was wrong to kill other kids. Yet by accident she died and it was my fault. It's like a fucking true detective character. I woke up for hours
Henry, you're hired. This guy did it. Well, Vale claims that Oliva called him on the night of December 26, 1996, saying that he had hurt a little girl and that he was in the Boulder, Colorado area. The next morning, Vale found out about JonBenet's death in the newspaper and immediately called the Boulder Police Department to give them the tip. Never heard back from the investigators. Yeah.
And also, Gary Oliva attended a candlelight vigil shortly after the murder. And that's something that you see murders do a lot. All the time! Yeah, they go to funerals, they go to vigils, they go anywhere where people are feeling sad about the case and they soak it up. This is the guy! See, they found Oliva. This is interesting from Rolling Stone. Approximately when they found him,
His phone, because he was arrested in 2016 on child porn charges. So he was giving, he was selling child porn. And he had a, this is what they found, quote, approximately 335 photos that had something to do with JonBenet Ramsey. Some were regular photographs of her found online. One of these photographs, 19 were images from her autopsy, likely from the photographs that had been leaked to the press in years past.
There were also many photographs of what appeared to be shrines to JonBenet Ramsey. It is unknown where these shrines are located or if they were created by Oliva or not. I observed in the contact section of Oliva's phone that there were many references to JonBenet Ramsey. In the video section of the phone, I found several videos that were tributes to JonBenet Ramsey as well. I...
I just got a weird feeling that this guy might not be cool. No. Why is he not a suspect? It seems like an easier thing to cover. He was considered a suspect in the year 2000. Police found a photo of JonBenet. Correlation's not causation. Yeah. A poem he'd written titled Ode to JonBenet and a stun gun. And ultimately...
His DNA did not match what was found at the crime scene. Yeah. His DNA, that was it. So he was just, I'm with that other guy. I wish I was there. Man, oh man. Can't somebody just describe to me what he was like? Here's some other fun facts about Gary Oliva. He was apparently arrested for illegally entering the University of Colorado Boulder's Fine Arts Building after hours.
Oliva had a penchant for stealing art supplies and had a sexual attraction to a skeleton the department had on display. It sounds like he continuously broke into the building to sleep in art rooms, but mainly because he wanted to be close to the skeleton. Oh, is that what Harrison Ford's doing? Got you, Callista! So he loves art supplies. She was killed with a fucking paintbrush. Mmm.
Well, then he also, 1991, he tried to kill his own mother with a telephone cord during the course of the assault. What is even happening here? Stating, I should have killed you a long time ago. I made other threats to kill her. He also stated that when the sheriff arrives, they will find you dead. That was five years later. That was like, yeah, he spent 17 months in jail for the attempted murder. And then he moved to Colorado. So he was...
He was in Colorado at the time. Yeah, and he used to hang out at the University of Colorado a lot, and he'd just hang out on the campus. He'd drop in on classes, and he'd sit in the back. I used to do that, but I started falling asleep, and they found me out. Yeah, and you'd be like, why do you keep breaking into school just to be bored? Gary Olivo was also reportedly using an address 10 blocks from the Ramsey home for a long time while he was just being a drifter.
He had a buddy with him. She scratched the buddy. He did it. And then one day, JonBenet's body was found. Val claims that Oliva called him sobbing and said, I just heard a little girl. But I think he meant by beating her really hard in Mario Kart, not giving her a chance. And then fearing that Oliva did something with the crime, they called the Boulder Police Department.
They never returned, Bill. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And Gary, Aliva, the knots used in the garrot to strangle John Bonnet were strikingly similar to those when Aliva choked his mother with a telephone cord. He said when 48 Hours talked to him, he says, I believe that she came to me after she was killed and revealed herself to me.
I would like to see a memorial set up for her. I haven't seen that anywhere. Except in my home. Oh, yay. He once sent Vale a drawing titled JonBenet Christ, where it's a drawing of a smiling JonBenet crucified on the cross. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he drew a nice, lovely picture of her. And he said, there is infinite space in your garden here. All they need do is enter here.
You, JonBenet, it would be worth it to take the blame for. Is he in prison currently? Yeah, right? I think he was released. No, he actually just got released in January. Yeah, he's got a podcast. He actually was just about to be, I believe he's going to be on Rogan.
Bitching is going to be great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, he is out. He was supposed to be set to release for prison in 2025. However, in January 2024, he was released early. Don't worry. So he's out there. So go ahead and say hi, everybody. Hey, Mr. Oliva. How you doing, buddy? Well, I mean, I don't mean to, you know, throw, you know, cast a spurs and throw shade on anybody, but he looks like Lemmy. No. Oh, man.
Hey, he doesn't. He does cut it like Danny Trejo. And he has these four scars going down the cheek of his face. Yeah, I actually don't know if he can. Again, what's like fucked up is that I don't know if it was him either. Arrest him and put him on trial.
I think that there's no evidence. Yeah, I don't think there's no evidence. We just listed a shit ton of evidence. All of that is circumstantial, my friend. All circumstantial. A lot of people confess to crimes they didn't commit. A lot of them want this. There is a... We talk a lot of times about the games serial killers play once they're in jail because they need to figure out ways to get their fix.
for all their various antisocial personality disorders. So they, you know, like John Wayne Gacy manipulated people from inside of jail. Richard Ramirez manipulated people from inside of jail. You know, Charles Manson famously had a whole bunch of people. And once you're in jail, like this guy, like Gary Oliva ain't getting any more popular.
I, maybe after this, he's going to get that last podcast bump. But like, you know, it's like, it's, it's, uh,
It's not good. Well, the most recent update that we have is just from, I think, a month ago. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah, 60 Minutes Australia did a full segment with John Ramsey because Patsy Ramsey died, what, like six years ago? Ten years ago, maybe? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, she's been dead for a while. But yeah, John Ramsey is still coming forth and saying, people still think we did it. And they have been ruled out since week two. Okay. I know.
I understand why, right? Because with police and they, with, with all investigations, they stick to the family. They always, because 80 to 95% of the time murders happen by somebody that you know, they happen by somebody who knows you. Some could like very rarely. Like that's why it's like,
All of the serial murder that we've ever covered still falls in that like 15% markage of homicides that don't evolve. Like, because that's how rare it is that you are killed by a stranger. But they have no motive. Well, they do. Well, rape and sex and potentially blackmail. So this is something different. So when you look at this, so they never gave any serious thought to,
to their being an intruder, and they also essentially destroyed all the evidence in the process of proving that there was an intruder while they were trying to figure out if the parents did it. And then they had to backtrack. Once they realized that they destroyed all the evidence, they had to fit... Which cops do this shit all the time. They try to fit a suspect into the evidence. Of course. Instead of following the evidence of the suspect, they start with the suspect and try to fit him into the evidence. Cops do it fucking...
All the time. Yeah, because they didn't like the Ramseys. You met the Ramseys and they were super fucking weird. And then Burke was also weird to you. You didn't like Burke. It's also easy. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing, because it's the other thing. It's also kind of statistically. Statistically, yes. It's who does it. And the cop wanted to hire the Santa Claus, but he was already booked. And so he's like, hey, I wanted the Santa Claus. Fuck you guys. I haven't worked in a year since everybody said I murdered John Bonet Ramsey.
I'm forced to be an Easter Bunny. But the big thing that this 60 Minutes thing talked about was that nine months after JonBenet was killed on September 14th, 1997, a similar crime occurred. Another little girl named Amy was sexually assaulted by an intruder, but the mother was able to intervene and the perpetrator escaped. Amy and JonBenet knew each other because they were in the same dance class. But Boulder...
police department refused to look into any links between the cases because of course they're still on the fucking parents. Oh yes. And then the ultimate, the ultimate one, which is the, the photographs of the open window in with the scuff marks on the wall of someone coming in, maybe in or out the suitcase with broken glass in it. The photographic evidence could have shown how the intruder left the Ramsey house. There was also fibers of clothing, Germany wearing on the night of the murder were in the suitcase. So it was like,
they, someone tried to put her in the suitcase, but they don't know. So like, that's why it was left that way was because no one was supposed to find her, you know, like, but they fucked it up. Something happened that that's why I think truly why there was multiple people, because I think that there was a lookout and I think that there was somebody was saying something is happening. I don't think that the murder and the note happens in a sequential order. I think they're happening at the same time. I think somebody's,
upstairs writing the note. I think there's two people downstairs that are supposed to be handling a child. I think the person from upstairs come downstairs, sees two people that have now fucked something up so royally because one of them was just there for the money and the other one literally is a child molester and they're watching two guys that have just went ham on a child when we were not supposed to. This was not the plan, bros. Like how many times we see that in movies, which I agree with the idea of like, we're not, this is not supposed to be the plan, bros. And then it's,
happening and now it's all fucked? Could be. It's this Oliva guy. There's no way it's me, man. There's no way, dude, because I would have stayed. I would have hung out with her, man. Well, thank you very much, everyone, for listening to our JonBenet Ramsey update. You know, and I think that it could have been less pleasant. Yeah, it could have been. I think that we did a good job. I'm happy that you're happy. I feel that we've course corrected and our taste now is so...
we're so classy now i would not like how we were we're so mature with our analysis and our material sure i'm wearing a care bear shirt just to feel my inner child hey as long as you don't rape and murder your inner child everything's gonna be fine is that a good way to end
I'm not going to do any longer, so I guess it is. All right, so we'll go down to patreon.com and check our last podcast on the left to go and see us. Go on TikTok, where even just the mention of most of the words in this episode would get the content banned at Elfie on the left. Go to and see us on YouTube.
You can email us at sidestorieslpotl at gmail.com and tell us how wrong we are. And then come see us on tour. You know what? You're allowed to tell me I'm wrong as long as you buy a ticket. So if you could, this is my new thing. All right, how about this?
I will acknowledge that I'm wrong with an email if you're wrong. If you also include an order confirmation number for a ticket to one of our North American shows. Wow. You can correct me, but you have to give me money while you do it. That's nice.
And you're just doing general? You're not doing VIP with that? Nope. He said it. General admission. General admission. Yep. So, and then go check us out. We'll be in various North American cities. Come see the JK Ultra Tour. We're also going to Australia. And we'll be seeing all of you upside down in August. Goodbye, everybody. Bye. Hey, Satan. Hey, again. Hey, Burke. Oh, wow. Well, I mean Gus. I guess. I don't know what he's up to.
I'm going to a place where they rehabilitate me for my attitudes towards children. This show is made possible by listeners like you. Thanks to our ad sponsors. You can support our shows by supporting them. For more shows like the one you just listened to, go to lastpodcastnetwork.com.
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