Episode 574: Ed and Lorraine Warren Part II - Make It Scary
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Hold, primates listening! It is I, Numator 479. According to our studies of your puny mammalian race, we discovered you like very good coffee. And while it is our evolutionary purpose to cause you psychic torment, we want you awake and vivacious to give it. So try our new blend from Spring Hill Jack Coffee. Reptilian in the morning...

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There's no place to escape to. This is the last. On the left. That's when the cannibalism started. What was that? I can't wait. I'm already thinking about this. I'm so fucking jealous. I get to sit. I'm going to sit. I'm going to.

I'm gonna masturbate. Yeah. I'm gonna smoke a lot of weed and sit in silence. Sounds incredible. I think tonight I'm gonna alphabetize my DVDs. Jesus, wow. That sounds so great. That sounds like so much fun. I love alphabetizing my DVDs. It's one of my secret favorite thrills. It's no like, oh no, I have to just smoke weed and clean my office. I just do that.

For two hours. That's a great question. Do I keep the Blu-rays with the Blu-rays and the DVDs with the DVDs? Mix them. Mix them. No! But see the different sizes in the boxes. Yeah, that's fine. No, Blu-rays are separate from the DVDs. They're a different class. Yeah. They're a different life. They might be a different class, but when I'm going to go look for a movie, I want to know. I don't want to go as like...

ah, fuck, I got that one on DVD. Fuck, now I got to go to the Blu-rays. You just have to pay more attention to your library. See, the problem is I have every Halloween movie on DVD, but they're scattered. You know, like there were some of them on Blu-rays, some of them on DVD. I would say put collections together. God, but the cases are different sizes. I just think it's a mess altogether. I think it's over. So first of all, I want to say this whole episode...

Completely real. Yeah. I want you to remember as we begin today, every single thing we're talking about, real. Yeah. In terms of there are human beings...

that have been a part of these stories and have spoken about these stories. And I do think that it's important to remember that if it's real to somebody, isn't it then real somewhere? Sure. Do you have the courage right here on this show to call Annabelle a bitch? I do. I do.

What? After all of the doll-based issues we've already had? It cut out on me last week. It cut out on me when we were talking about Robert the doll. I think she's great. I love Annabelle.

Annabelle, the Jessica Chastain of haunted objects. God, I'd want to just rub her and rub her. She is definitely the most ladylike of them, but she is based on a child. Yeah. Annabelle? Raggedy Ann. Oh, yeah. Well, Raggedy Ann, I mean...

So Annabelle doesn't look like Annabelle, but we'll get into that. We'll get into that. Welcome to the last podcast on the left, by the way. Raggedy Ann is technically a child. My name is Marcus Parks. Raggedy Ann's not only a child, Raggedy Ann is an orphan. So if you want to make love to that underage orphan, I put you towards one of the worst people that's ever lived, Ed Larson. I will stick to Jessica Jones.

Hey, she'll have us. She has not returned one of my letters. No. She's not returned one of my telegrams. She won't answer the door. Yeah. She won't answer my DMs. And I don't understand. I'll keep telling her, my wife looks just like you. I remember what, I know. But she's short.

No, Jessica Chastain's tall. No, she's not. I've seen her in real life. When did you see her? Yeah. No, you fucking haven't seen her in real life. Fuck you. When did you get to see her? I was waiting for an elevator at the movie theater with my buddy who was handicapped and they wouldn't let us on the elevator. And we're like, why would you let us on the elevator? And he's like, because someone's coming. And I was like, well, just let us use it. And then we sat there for like seven minutes and then Jessica Chastain showed up and used the elevator and went up and then we had to wait for it to come back down. So she wouldn't let the guy use the elevator?

I love you.

you, Jessica. Hey, listen, you want to reverse some of this slander, you get back to one of my cut out magazine letters I sent you asking for some pictures of you dressed as a frog. Come on, give it to me. Let's get on to the Warrens

Part two. We're getting further into the Ed and Lorraine Warren story. This is going to be the episode where we're covering the greatest hits. I think that we talked about right before the show, last episode was an introduction to just sort of a reminder who the Warrens are, what they do, what their style is. You know, again, they're sexy and fun. They're bringing a vivacious edge to the paranormal world. I mean, if you actually look at the ascot sales. Yeah.

You can tell they are like the heat is off the charts. But today's episode is like last week was an intro. Today's the continued adventures of the Warrens. Yeah. And next episode will be, of course, when they jump the shark.

Now, one thing I'll say about Ed and Lorraine Warren is that even though they've been grossly misrepresented by the movies of the Conjuring universe... What are you talking about? Look just like those guys. Me and Patty, we hang out. Sometimes people come up to me, and they're like, are you the guy that's on Broadway over time? And I'm like, oh, you know Joe's subs, too, on Broadway and Millington? They're like, no, no, no. The other guy who can sing. And I'm like, oh, you mean my friend here? Yeah.

And even though they lied about or embellished upon their experiences on a consistent basis, you can't say they were not true believers in the paranormal. They almost believed in it too much. Yes. For a great example, we received an email from a listener who grew up in Easton, Connecticut, which is right next to the town where Ed and Lorraine lived and where their occult museum still stands today.

Now, this is definitely a secondhand story, but this listener had a supervisor whose dad owned the pharmacy where Ed and Lorraine Warren filled their prescriptions. Man, this is the shit that the other shows don't get. They don't get this kind of outreach. And if you guys, first of all, you're saying like, oh, a pharmacist, what do they know? Have you ever met somebody over 60?

and seeing their relationship between them and a pharmacist, they just say wild stuff. They'll be like, yeah, I'm here because my wife says I don't take care of myself. And you'll just sit behind them being like, yeah, bro, I can see you have like a

green foot. Fucking pharmacists are saving the world. They're keeping dudes fucking their wives. They're keeping the guns out of the hands of psychopaths. Pharmacists are some of the strangest human beings you will meet only surpassed by dentists. Pharmacists are strange. I got a lot of mail on that too. You'd be surprised what goes on in the minds of pharmacists. It's like if coke dealers were nerds. But sometimes they've got the same attitudes. But prescription drugs.

We're not the only purpose for the Warrens to go to this establishment. This pharmacy was where Ed and Lorraine Warren had many of their so-called spirit photographs developed. Which is a far cry from the conception we may have in our minds of a paranormal investigator painstakingly developing photos in a creepy dark room while foreboding ambient music plays in the background.

Like Henry said, they're going to Eckerd's. They're going down the street? I miss Eckerd's. Yeah. Well, from what the guy who developed their photos told our listener, Ed Warren would come in with the role of film. Giddy at the possibility that this was the time they'd finally captured proof of demon kind on Earth. Oh, you know what? Oh, this one's juicy. You can smell it. You can smell the ghost just from outside the film. Oh, God, I gotta see it.

This is real. Well, this is what they said. Sometimes the person who developed the photos would actually let Ed behind the counter to help. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Let me see the machine. Oh, I've got to get some. But he called them his goodies. His goodies, yeah. Because Ed, sometimes he just couldn't wait to see the results. He needed to be there when the machine finally spit the photos out under the harsh fluorescent lights of the pharmacy. Too much time. Look.

Looking like, what's his name, from Spawn? The Violator? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, we see Lincoln in this one. When Ed left the technician to do his job, however, Ed would come back and immediately ask if they saw anything while developing the photos. Let me take a look at myself. And the technician would, like, he'd usually humor Ed with, like, you know, maybe there were a couple.

in there that look pretty creepy. I knew I could trust you, Pedro. I knew as soon as I could because you know how precious these secrets are. And it's just nice that you, getting paid $5.75 an hour, are allowed to hold the secrets of the universe. Now do you take EBT?

But while the technician gave his polite answer, Ed would rip open the package at the counter like it was Christmas Day, pull out the magnifying glass that he brought himself. Let me get some of the dressing off this. I'm sorry. I had a case. And he would try to convince the desk clerk that this little white dot or that little weird blob was in fact a demon.

And this is the type of gusto Edward display while just running an errand. Imagine what he was like at the scene of a paranormal event.

But that's all to say that Ed and Lorraine saw demons everywhere. Partly because they very much wanted the world to be a playground for the infernal. It's almost like it was their entire livelihood. Yeah. And that they needed demons to be real for them to make the millions of dollars that they ended up making. Of all of the people that have monetized the paranormal, that have made money on the paranormal, besides Zach Bagans. I think Zach Bagans is now the new current president.

Lord of the pop culture. That's my polite way of putting it. Pop culture paranormal lord. Sure. Where he knows how to tell a story. He knows how to ship it around. Because I'll tell you what. I watched hours of Ed and Lorraine talking. And their stories are great. They're rehearsed. And they never change. Yeah. So he has it down pat. But these guys, they figured out the way you

You make, quote unquote, good dollars in this. Or he says good money. He always tells people you can make good money with this. Stay consistent. Stay in the pocket. Never break character. That's where Alex Jones is a pussy. Yep. He fucking wanted his kids back. He's in a fucking kid's back because he broke character. Ed and Lorraine never broke character.

No. Every once in a while, the mask would drop, but it was only in private. But it was about money. And it was about money. But a lot of that stuff we'll get to in part three. But for an example of how Ed and Lorraine saw demons everywhere, on a trip to New York City to star as guests on a TV show, Ed and Lorraine claimed that they were walking through an alley and found themselves appalled at the amount of garbage, flies, and vermin. So they've been saying about this in New York for a long time, just so you know.

What's that? They've been saying this about New York for a long time. But that's the thing. All three of us, we've lived in New York. We know this story's a fucking fib because Manhattan don't got alleys. No alleys. No, there's no alleys. Chicago's got alleys. Yeah. That's why it seems a little cleaner because we toss our trash in the street.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Alley is the way that people think of them in movies. That only exists in movies. Yeah, it's last action hero shit. Well, you know what's funny? You know what I think is interesting is you know who has alleys? It's downtown Los Angeles. And I do think that there's a lot of ways that you don't understand that you've been manipulated by the media that you're like, you have an idea maybe of what New York looks like because of how it's been pictured in movies. But then you realize like, oh, no, but they don't shoot in New York.

So anytime you've seen New York, it's shot in Atlanta or it's shot in Toronto or it's shot in some other place. So it's got a bunch of stuff that you wouldn't recognize. I looked it up. There's one alley in downtown where they shoot fucking everything. Yeah, Chinatown's got it. There is alleys in Chinatown. There's a couple of alleys here and there, but they're very rare. Yeah, there's alleys in New York, but they're all just...

dead sex workers. Named alley. Very good, Eddie. Very good. EddieTunes.com But regardless, when Ed and Lorraine found themselves in this supposed alley, Ed saw a homeless man who was, by Ed's estimation, somewhere between the ages of 30 and 65. The

You can't tell? Decades? Honestly, people have been saying the same thing about me since I'm seven. The stranger, laying under a pile of garbage, was covered in sores and scabs, and rats were chewing at his toes.

But while Ed and Lorraine stood staring at this poor man like he was a tourist attraction. He's like, hey, buddy, quit staring. I'm in bed right now. Hey, here's a rat's eating my toes here. Hey, these are my buddies. That rat is my wife.

Well, Ed claimed that as he stood there, he watched as the man's face changed into a perverse sneer and an ugly, inhuman look of delirium settled into the man's eyes. And then slowly but surely, you heard. Ah, I see. It was a pre-fought face. I now understand. At first, I thought it was a demon, but now I know.

That's a pretty fun face. Honestly, I should know that. I once saw a guy asleep on the subway, like on his back, and it was a pretty full subway, and everyone wanted to sit down, but he took up like three seats. Yeah. And then we're all just sitting there looking at him, and all of a sudden you could tell he's starting to pee his pants. Yeah. And then the pee stream got so hard that it went through his pants and out. Ha!

I was just like, oh my God. That right there is that. Honestly, I know for a fact, that's not a demon, that's a man. Because no demon would piss on the subway like that because they understand that they gotta be on the subway themselves. Only man ruins their own environment. No, Ed's the guy in the alley, that was a demon. Oh yeah, of course. But it's just his idea that...

We're going to get into what will turn to be one of our large themes of this series, which is there. What they really wanted to do was not prove that ghosts exist or demon exists, but they wanted to spread the power of Christianity everywhere they went. Ed Warren, but Lorraine Warren's an interesting type because she really is another one of those who is a true believer. Never dropped character. I kind of believe some of the wiggity stuff. Sure. Like I believe a little of the, ah,

I see your aura. Mostly because of the hair. No, yeah. And I said that in the first episode. Like, these people, I guarantee, had...

outsized amount of paranormal experiences. I guarantee they did. And also the way they reacted. I was like reading about how like Ed and Lorraine, like during all the mini, before getting into the big ones that we're about to get into, they'd just show up at the police, introduce themselves as demonologists. No irony, no anything. Lorraine was like, I'm a psychic. And she would immediately like tell something like, your mama loves spaghetti, didn't she? I see noodles in my mind.

He was just like, my God, my mother did love spaghetti. You know, he's like, he names like, you know, officer, you know, rigatoni. And he's like, no way. My mom loves spaghetti. We're named after spaghetti. But then Ed Warren was just, was like this. He was, he had no compunction. Like he really just was like, I'm doing, but the, the idea across all of this is to tell people that the only thing that can save an entire generation is the power of Christ. Yeah.

Now, Ed's willingness to believe that anything and everything could be a vessel for a demon was what helped him and Lorraine believe and sell one of their most famous tales, that of the haunted doll Annabelle. Oh.

Now, from the beginning of NESPR, that's the New England Society for Paranormal Research. That's their little, you know, that's their organization. They also sometimes call it NESPR. NESPR. Fuck. Fuck. That's only when they're fighting the Jets. When you're a Jet. That was my one line. When you're a Jet. No. That was your line? I played a character called Snowboy. My only line in West Side Story was, let's get those PRs. Ah. Ha! Ha!

Canceled with one line. Well, the Warrens would receive referrals from local priests when the priest suspected that a demonic infestation or possession had taken place, and the priest didn't really feel like dealing with it just yet. Essentially, demon hunting was outsourced to Ed and Lorraine, and this is how the Warrens came upon the infamous Annabelle doll in 1970. Well, you know,

They were the Ghostbusters. Yeah. They had a P.O. box and a phone line. And so I was reading and watching material that they sent out to their fan club and also the VHSs that you could purchase back in the day. Finally, they released it all to YouTube. They dumped it all out. And it's interesting. They were like, you got a ghost and you're local. Give us a call. And they would give the number. And you would just call Ed and Lorraine Warren, and this is how they operated for years. From Northridge.

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Now, unfortunately, the Warrens' own perspective on the Annabelle case is really the only one available. But I think that the story of Annabelle is important to tell, if only because it shows you how wacky and blown out a Warren story can be when no one pushes back.

So in 1970, a woman bought a Raggedy Ann doll from a hobby store in Hartford, Connecticut as a present for her daughter Donna, who had just graduated nursing school. Presumably, there was some sort of symbolic reason behind this gift, as it seems a little underwhelming for a grown woman who'd just graduated nursing school. I think you'd be surprised how prevalent stuffed animals are still even in the rooms of adults. Really? Yeah, I think that stuffed animals...

are around more than we think that they are and they're gripped more and they're anthropomorphized more than you think that it is. I think I've definitely, back in my single days, you'd be surprised. That you wandered into a room and a woman... Filled with stuffed animals. Many, many, many stuffed animals. And then you're making drunken love on top of a bunch of stuffed animals in a room in a weird, dark room in Bushwick. That never once happened to me. Happened to me multiple times. Maybe he really talks about who's attracted to me.

I think it's just more about the types of women that we encountered in our time in New York City. Yeah, mine was a lot of women in sort of like a unicorn onesie, smeared makeup, going, you're going to save me, right? You're going to save us all, right? My favorite kind. Henry's ladies had less cigarette burns than your ladies. LAUGHTER

Not a point I can refute in any way whatsoever. But whatever the case, this Raggedy Ann doll was massive. It was three feet tall with long dangling legs. It was a grippable doll. Oh, it was super grippable. It was kissable. Yeah. Kissable and huggable. I actually don't, I think that they were all that big for a period of time. Yeah. I think the people like

bigger dolls back in the day. Those old G.I. Joes were huge. Yeah. Well, made of cloth and stuffing, this doll wore bloomers and a paisley shirt and had the trademark red yarn hair of every Raggedy Ann doll, as well as the printed face featuring the large black eyes and the triangle nose.

Now, within days, Donna, her roommate Angie, and Angie's fiancé Lou, they all noticed that there was something off about this doll. At first, they were just small movements, like changes in the positions of its limbs. Sometimes the doll would be found with its arms crossed, or it would be found standing upright on its own feet. It's me. I'm up.

Hi. Take me outside to pee. Oh, no, I'm shitting. The upright position was particularly disturbing considering how Raggedy Ann was a floppy sort of doll. Didn't have any internal wires that could make an upright stance possible. But soon after the changes in position, Donna and Angie would come home to find that the doll had moved to an entirely different room, seemingly of its own volition.

On one occasion, Donna left the doll on the couch when she went to work, but when she returned, the doll was on her bed, and the door to her bedroom had been closed. I'm changing my wetted bloomers. I'm sorry I made my bloomers wet. Don't you take me outside! I hate this doll.

Why did we get this doll? Where's the nurse? Donna and Angie claimed, or should I say the Warrens claimed, that a month after the activity began, they began finding messages on parchment paper clearly written by a child that read, Help Us or Help Lou, referencing Angie's fiancé.

From there, the activity escalated after the doll had once again moved itself to another room. But this time... Can you imagine trying to go take a shit, and you open up the door, and Annabelle's just sitting on the toilet? Just like, that's scary. Like, first of all, like, that's just scary. And then it's also like, uh, you don't pay rent here. Yeah. But it has a fucking bathroom. You think someone's got to pay rent in order to use a bathroom? As far as I'm going, yay, my home. Yeah, oh yeah, that's right, I forget you get the pay toilet in your home. No.

But this time, when Donna picked up the doll, she found what appeared to be drops of blood on the back of the doll's hands and chest. Quite concerned by this point, Donna and her roommate engaged in the services of a spirit medium. The medium immediately called for a seance, and during the ritual, the medium said that she had contacted the spirit of a young girl who had once lived on the property where Donna and Angie's apartment building had been constructed.

The spirit's name was Annabelle Higgins, and her lifeless body had been found on the very land where Donna and Angie lived when Annabelle was just seven years old. But, the spirit said, she felt safe with Donna and Angie, and therefore wanted to stay. So, despite warnings from Angie's fiancé Lou that the doll was in fact evil and Annabelle was not what she claimed to be, Donna and Angie gave Annabelle permission to inhabit the doll permanently.

After that, the situation escalated again. Spirits love being squatters. Yeah, they love being invited. Yes. Now, perhaps because he'd sounded the warning bells, Lou became Annabelle's focus. He began having recurring nightmares, and one night awoke to find himself completely paralyzed. Sleep paralysis. Yes.

Standing at the edge of the bed was who else but the floppy, raggedy and all with the big black eyes named Annabelle. Hi, you sleeping? Yeah, you trying to sleep? From what Lou told the Warrens, or at least what the Warrens said Lou told them, Annabelle slowly glided up Lou's body. It's a nice leg. Strong shin. Thick thigh. Oh, you're not stink. You may want to watch some of that. Seven-year-old.

No. You're ghost illegal. I know. I noticed you're now speaking like Michael Jackson. He's ignorant. Every child's safe with me. I have a dream about every child. Before Lou knew it, the floppy doll was choking him with so much force that he blacked out. Gave him his pants. God, wow. Wow. Wow.

The next day, Lou and Angie were in the apartment studying maps for an upcoming road trip when the apartment got eerily quiet. Rustling was heard coming from Donna's bedroom. That's not rustling. That's rustling. Yeah. Where's that rustling coming from?

Thinking it might be a burglar, Lou and Angie apprehensively checked the room. There, they found only Annabelle, tossed on the floor in a corner. As soon as Lou got close to the doll, though, Spread Eagle. he felt like someone was behind him, and in a split second, Lou was doubled over in pain.

This was a lie. No. It was mysterious. It was mysterious, as Henry said. Also, seven doesn't make sense. We're going to get there. Yes, it does, because it's a special number.

Like how three, see three, and any time you see threes, it's a mockery of the trilogy of- Trinity. The trilogy. No, it's the Die Hard trilogy. Any single time you see three dots, it's a mockery of the Die Hard trilogy. I thought there were four Die Hard movies. I don't count the other two. I don't count anything past Die Hard for the Vengeance. The first three are obviously the best ones. The other two were money grabs because Bruce Willis was having more and more advancing dementia. Yeah.

And so I don't count those. But when it's seven, it's a phone number. Well, yeah, but claws are four or three. So I guess maybe one hand had four and the other one had three. And the fourth didn't get you. Yeah. Okay. All right. I can deal with this. Cool. Cool.

Now, after the physical attacks, Donna contacted an Episcopalian priest who contacted another priest who contacted Ed and Lorraine Warren. Yeah, can you imagine hitting up an Episcopalian priest and asking him to do jack shit? He'd be like, uh, call a Catholic. I don't do anything. We don't get paid. Yeah, this shit is chill. That's the whole reason why we're here. Yeah, I'm one of the nice ones, kind of. And the Warrens immediately knew that this was the sort of case they prayed for daily. Oh, yeah, they were like...

Yes! They love this shit. And this is local. And again, this is when they're still just trying to make their nut. This is their first... The last one we just heard, this is just them... When we were kind of hearing them, they were just revving up their ghost hunting industry. This is like their first real big get. 1970.

During their first meeting, Angie suggested the possibility of moving to escape the entity. But as Ed would say again and again to the folks he claimed to help, moving would be a futile gesture because the spirit had already attached itself. When he knew immediately that it wasn't a spirit, because he walked in there, and like, you know, because the thing about Ed Warren is that it's all about style. So he walks in, total control.

Total calm. Walks in, be like, hey, how you doing? It's nice to see you. Oh, hey, this is a, got a little ghost doll situation. You know, don't worry, we're going to handle this. You don't even worry about it. All right, we're going to take this all down. You got coffee? Do you

Do you got any Pepsi? I got to take the two at the same time because if not, I throw up. All right. So I went down the belly. We're looking at it. All right. So she's jumping back and forth. And that's what he was saying is that human spirit has no power to move things. So the first thing he says, got to be demon. Got to be. Because it's moving things back and forth. No way would he fuck with you if he wasn't, right? Especially you wouldn't get physically hurt. Yeah. As soon as he heard the scratches.

That's a demon. Boom. Immediately. But what he said truly was like, so what you guys did was you set up a bad situation. But the way we know that you are definitely not like it's also smells. It's like farting. The dolls fart. It's weird shit's going on back and forth. And he was like, you are haunted by demons. Think about demons though. They don't haunt places. They haunt

Plus, if they move, it makes his commute worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're real close to me right now. No, no, no, no, I don't want to take the highway. When they asked if they could just destroy the doll, Ed said that didn't help either. What the fuck is wrong with you? And that's always how they react. They're like, whoa, what? What?

Because the problem was not the doll itself. I mean, the doll was a doll like any other. Like, it was just another Raggedy Ann doll, but it had become a vessel for a demon. If it helps, it's more or less Chucky, but with a demon instead of a serial killer. There's nothing special about that good guy doll. It was just that that was the good guy doll that Brad Dourf chose to inhabit. By Ed's estimation, if these people had waited another two or three weeks, one of them would have become possessed.

But one way or another, what was going on with Annabelle was the fault of the people who might have become possessed, because for Ed, demonic possession was always about blame. That's the most Catholic thing that you could kind of see. It really is. Not only are you fucked, but it's your fault. He said that the responsibility for this whole scenario was on Donna and Angie, because they'd given the entity recognition in the first place after the mysterious movements of the doll, which...

Which I don't really get. Because what is he saying? That if a doll is fucking flitting around the house, you're supposed to ignore it? Yes. That is literally what he says. He says it's on you. You've got to ignore it. You have to literally just act like it's... You don't even talk about it at all? Do not acknowledge it at all. That is what he says. It's how you deal with ghosts and trolls. Where you do not give...

And rats. Anything. You give them nothing. You're supposed to be bored. Like what they want is, because again, it's a demon. Because if it was a human ghost, it would be communicating with you in a more direct way, in a peaceful way, looking for, like a lot of times it's through something, whether through a Ouija board or like a

But he also said the Ouija boards were evil. He did not. He did not. I have clarification on that. He said there's nothing wrong with the Ouija board. It's just that the Ouija board, more often than not, if you don't know how to use it, leads to issues with you. Again, it's on you. You're the problem.

You're not doing it right. The Parker brothers send instructions. There's a whole thing. It's an ancient mechanism. It's an ancient mechanism. So he feels if you see any sort of activity, this is called the infestation period. Things are sort of building up.

and he believes that you're literally not even supposed to look at it. You're just supposed to act like it's that. If you engage with it at all, you're giving it a hold into this world. Because all it wants is your attention, Marcus. It's all sitting there no matter what it's doing. It's flicking back and forth because it wants to say hello. It wants you to shut the light off, back and forth. It's playing with drinking balls. It wants you to say hello. Yeah. All right? But you can't let it. You can't let it. Yeah, because then otherwise it becomes the oppression section. Like you can't even mention it to your wife. Nothing. Nothing.

Jack shit. So what happens if it's playing with your dick in the balls and you're ignoring it, but you still cum?

Yeah. Blame it on your thoughts. Say, oh, I must have rubbed it on my jeans hard earlier today. Well, he said they'd given the entity recognition in the first place. That was bad. They made it worse by holding the seance, but the worst mistake they made was giving the entity permission to enter the doll. In Ed's words, doing this was like handing a maniac a loaded gun.

And so Ed and Lorraine, it's very hyperbolic. And so Ed and Lorraine took Annabelle the doll into their custody. Although I'm a little unclear on how this works because Ed had just told the girls that the demonic energy was attached to them in particular and moving wouldn't help. Oh, it's because there's a bit of a jump here where he did bring in an exorcist. So when he came in with Annabelle, they had their first meeting. Sure. It was all like, you know, he talked to Annabelle. He's like, what are you doing, Annabelle? You want to fuck?

with me. And then nothing happened, right? But then he came back with the priest. They exercised the doll. They did it all like they had a whole process inside of it. They exercised the doll. They exercised the lady. They went and they did all they squirted holy water around because that's all he does. Because that's the thing with Ed Warren is that he also says he's immune to the phenomenon. He can't see it. It does not engage with him, right? More often than not. That's why he has to do what he calls, he's got to do religious provocations.

Normally. Which we'll get to the next story. But he cleared it. So technically he fixed them. He fixed them. But then he took the doll. Being like, well, you guys essentially can't be responsible with this doll anymore. So I'm going to take it. Okay. But they can just get any doll and offer it up to Annabelle. I think this was, again...

It's all about salesmanship. Yeah. Ed Warren, more than anything. Like, Natalie was looking over my shoulder and there's like a picture of it. Through all the YouTube content, he's doing, like, Ed Warren is leading a tour of his little museum in his house. And he's got the sunglasses inside. He's got the big scarf on, green and purple light on him. And like, I'm sitting there. I'm like, you know, would you believe it? Some people think that this guy's a carny. And Natalie's like,

That's a carny unlike any carny I've ever seen. Like, that is the lord of carnies. Yeah, he's a jerk. Yes. And so he wanted that doll to be a part of his collection. Yeah. Now, as far as possessed objects go, does it have to be something that looks like a human or could it be like a bottle of Coke or a lamp? It could be anything. But we learned when we did our Haunted Dolls Redux recently that it is just more, quote unquote, powerful to use a human-shaped doll. Yeah. Okay.

Well, from how they told it, the demon immediately tried killing the Warrens on the drive back to their home in Monroe. Shit! By causing the car's power steering and brakes to fail. Meanwhile, like, cutting to him eating a crawler, like, you know, like, you know, like, 44-ounce Duncan with him with, like, four bear claws being like, I ain't even got time to sit down for fucking lunch. Shit!

This is how to date oil change sticker. Engine light going off. Annabelle is stuck in the wheel. But right after Ed threw some holy water in the backseat, like a father absentmindedly slapping at his noisy kids during a road trip. Back to Winnipeg. The Warrens were able to get home without further incident.

Now, Ed and Lorraine claim that for weeks afterwards, Annabelle's abilities expanded to levitation and it continued movement around their house. Don't you fold, Annabelle. Listen, I'm going to sit here and I got to write a letter. I got to write a letter to Jimmy Carter and ask him, honestly, what's going on. But what I need you to do is not do nothing. Annabelle, you sit in that chair. You quit floating down, Annabelle. I'm going to fucking tie you to the chair. You're scraping me out.

It's like a guy with a bad Bichon frise. You get down, Annabelle! Well, true to form, once the Warrens were the only witnesses, they claimed that Annabelle could make an ethereal black cat appear, which would just as quickly disappear.

Now, after a year of putting up with Annabelle, during which the doll supposedly tried killing a priest and caused a necklace to explode, all while terrorizing the Warrens' real cat. That fucking cat has just got to just be the most traumatized cat seeing phantoms everywhere, like just all day long, just devil

and witches and haunted brides and it's just like, listen, I'm already a black cat. Do you think my dreams aren't scary? Get me out of here.

Well, after a year, they finally locked her away in the infamous positively do not open case where she has remained ever since. Well, that fucking that priest did treat Annabelle disrespectfully. He did pick up Annabelle. He's like because he tried to show that there's no power in the doll and he picked up Annabelle and he's like, you have no power here, Annabelle. And he threw it across the room. And Ed Warren was like.

you're not going to like that. You're not going to like what she does now. And so he got into a car accident. She said, Lorraine was like, be careful when you're driving on your way home. And then the priest almost got into an accident and then he called later on. He's like, why did you tell me to be careful on the road? And Lorraine was like, ah! Flapped her tits around. But

But these are also all stories that the Warrens told. No, hey, Marcus. No way. There's no way this is not entirely accurate. No one talked to the priest. Yeah, no one talked. That's the thing about these stories. We don't even know if the priest existed. Yeah. That's the thing about all these stories. These all come from like Ed and Lorraine Warren. Very rarely. Like sometimes you do get like in the last episode, like Andrea Perron did speak, wrote a whole book about it. Yes, we did too.

I did get a little bit of, not feedback, people said we did the Perrin family, the Perrin family dirty in terms of not believing anything about the haunting, where she did write three entire books about the experiences they had in that house, which I think it's, again, remembering that the spiritual world and these types of experiences with the phenomena are very, very subtle. And it's Ed and Lorraine Warren that create sort of a...

big, giant story arc about all of these things after the fact. Well, that's kind of the problem with involving Ed and Lorraine Warren. It's like, this is a conversation that we've been having over the phone again and again, is that you said that Ed and Lorraine are necessary to

the paranormal world. Like they're sort of like salesmanship and all that. In terms of the survival of the quote unquote paranormal industry. And what I say is that all their involvement every time. See for me, when I hear Ed and Lorraine Warren, my first thought is bullshit. Of course. This story is bullshit because they lie. They're liars. They're the ones that give the cynics every single bit of power they have to say, no, this entire thing is total and utter horseshit because of these people right here, because of these hucksters.

Because what we have learned... So if anything, I take no responsibility. Good. Good. But I also think with them, it was never about the ghosts at all. Yeah. It was all about spreading the power and message of their savior. Yeah. Which...

They did, effectively. Which we'll get into that next episode, but they were wildly successful. Three books doesn't impress me. There's seven Puppet Master movies. It takes hundreds of people to put together a Puppet Master film. Don't you talk shit about Full Moon Productions on this show. You're a friend of the show.

Now, while we don't have a straight debunk of the Annabelle story, we can say that it shares quite a bit with one of my favorite Twilight Zone episodes, one starring Kojak himself, Telly Savalas. This episode, released five years before the Annabelle case, is titled The Living Doll.

Oh, yeah, I remember this episode. It was a good one. Now, the plot revolves around a doll called Talkitina, who terrorizes an infertile stepfather, played by Tully Savalas, who takes out his rage about being infertile on his young stepdaughter. I've seen some documentaries that seem to begin with that scenario. Seem to begin with that scenario. But then, of course, the man leaves, and then somebody else comes in who's not infertile. Not infertile. Well, infertile's different than impotent. Yeah. No, no, I know that. He says, I want to be.

I want him into me. Gimme, gimme, can you make the chute shoot? So anyway, after the doll starts talking shit directly to Tali Savalas because he's being mean to the little girl, he tries destroying it in a number of ways. But Talky Tina always comes back through blowtorch, vice, and circular saw. Talky Tina.

I love you. That's what I tell Lisa Ballas. My god, Ducky Tina, god damn, if you weren't a little doll, what'd I do to you?

Finally, Tully's wife is about to leave him because Tully's obsession with the doll has gone off the rails. Finally, he begins to think maybe it's all in his head, and he gives the doll back to his stepdaughter if they promise not to leave. But that night, Talky Tina causes Tully's death by tripping him at the top of the staircase. The mother finds his body and picks up the doll, who tells her, My name's Talky Tina. Ha ha!

And you'd better be nice to me. No, no, you gotta do it that way. Like, my name is Talky Tina and you'd better be nice to me. Unfortunately, I just did it for Annabelle, so I feel like it had to change. It had to be different. My name's Talky Tina and you'd better be nice to me. Problem every keyboard's heard. Yeah, I think Ike really disliked when Tina was talking.

Now, yes, a TV show that aired five years before the Annabelle incident is no more proof of plagiarization than the Outer Limits Alien episode aired just before the Betty and Barney Hill abduction is. But the connection is that the name of the mother in the evil doll episode of The Twilight Zone...

was Annabelle. Sure, but that might have come from the people who had the doll originally. No, it might have come from the people originally, possibly. I don't know. That's one of those where haunted dolls and haunted objects have been around forever. So I'm not really that, like, I don't think he stole it necessarily from the Twilight Zone in terms of the structure of the story. I just think that it's

they thought someone had a creepy doll, but they moved around and then he basically took that and ran with it. But they didn't name the doll Annabelle. Remember, Annabelle came up in the seance.

That's right. But that came from the medium. If that story's true. If that story's true. We don't know if any of this story's true. No, of course not. But I do believe, they are, there were witnesses to Annabelle, but they all, again, they all just came from the mind of Ed Warren and Lorraine. I didn't even think about it like that. But yeah, it's just coming from them, yeah. Furthermore, yeah, it's all like that. It's just their story. There are plenty of witnesses. Like, well, who told you about the witnesses? Ed.

Ed and Lorraine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Well, furthermore, concerning the credibility of Annabelle, back in 2022, she made an appearance at a paranormal convention hosted by Nesper and organized by the current caretaker of the Warren's Occult Museum. That organizer was the Warren's son-in-law, Tony Sparrow, who has taken the mantle of paranormal guru since both the Warrens died.

Now even though the alleged demon inside Annabelle was said by the Warrens for years to be among the most dangerous in their custody, Tony still brought this artifact into a room full of potential possession victims.

Honestly, if he possessed five people in that room, that's extremely good for business. That's why he did it. If it just turned into a rash of Annabelle duplicates in a room, that's awesome. It's incredible. All right, Annabelle, we got one more shot at this. All right.

It's a big show. It's an industry showcase. I'm going to need you to give it all you got, Annabelle. All right? Here you go. Get it all out. Perhaps most telling is the side business Tony built around Annabelle.

Quite recently, Tony sold his own brand of vodka called the Herodin Vodka Paranormal Reserve, which is said to have been aged in bottles next to the Annabelle doll. That doesn't mean anything. No, they were... They fucking left a bunch of bottles of vodka near a doll. That doesn't make any sense. If you had...

If Annabelle was soaking in the vodka, that would be the Annabelle Reserve. That'd be awesome. A giant bottle of vodka with a little floating Annabelle in the middle of it. And cheekily, the vodka was limited to a run of 666 bottles. Oh, diabolical. And it came in a bespoke case with a Ouija board etched on the lid. That's awesome, actually. Now that I've made fun of it. It was like $300. All right, never mind.

Never mind. In other words, the current caretakers of Annabelle don't take her anywhere near as seriously as the Warrens claim to. And that's if the Warrens ever took her seriously at all. Whoa, it's still $199. It's $199. Each bottle. Each bottle is $199? Yes. It's got a box. It comes in this Ouija box.

Among the artifacts in the museum are a human skull. This is him talking about how it was in the museum and it was made in the museum. Doesn't make any sense. Each bottle includes gloves for handling and protection. I forgot it comes with rubber gloves. Yeah, it comes with magic gloves. That's awesome. It's just pop-off poured into different bottles. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. This is fucking...

bottom shelf. Yeah. But when it comes to hoaxes, nothing compares to the most infamous case of the Warrens' career. This is their dangerous. The year was 1976. Ah, computers were nowhere. America, 200 years old. Ah. It was the bicentennial.

The paranormal revolution that swept the nation during that decade was in full swing, and the entire world was about to hear of the existence of a little town in Long Island called Amityville. Oh, sweet, sweet Long Island. Amityville, which means friendly town. Does it? Or just like Amity Island. Yeah.

Now, as we extensively covered many years ago on our Amityville series, in which we mostly focused on the murders, a young man named Ronnie Butch DeFeo murdered his parents and four siblings in a single night, moving from room to room with a .35 caliber rifle, supposedly because demonic voices had told him to do so. Remember, his sister helped. Well, that's the theory. Never been proven, but the theory is that his sister helped.

But the gunshots, did it wake up the other people in the other rooms? That's the theory. That's the demons. Yeah. That's why they didn't wake up because it'd be demons. Make them go to sleep. Make them very restful. Memory foam demon. Yeah. Or they have silencers. No. He did not have a silencer. He did not have a silencer. The demon was the silencer. Whoa. Wow. Wow. Okay. Okay.

A year later, a year after the murders, just a year, a couple named George and Kathy Lutz moved into the DeFeo home with their children, claiming that the disturbingly recent murders didn't bother them at all because it gave them a chance to get a great deal on a nice house in a good neighborhood. Oh, very much so. They bought that house for $50,000. Jeez. It is a beautiful house. Yeah. Crazy property in Long Island. Do you know where it is, Rob? I don't.

know where it is. I've been there. Yeah, you've been there. Yeah, I've visited the Amityville house, or at least I stood on the sidewalk across the street. And this is a nice neighborhood. Amityville itself is quite nice, although everyone definitely knew why me and Carolina were in Amityville that day. Of course. Oh, yeah, they know everybody who's on the block.

Yeah. Yeah, they know everybody who lives in the neighborhood, and they know all the looky-loos who come, and I imagine they put up, there's no fence. There's no fence, no. They were having a fucking barbecue, dude. But didn't they also redo the sides and stuff? Like, they don't have the cool, like, the distinctive windows are still there? Yeah.

The windows are gone. Yeah, they pulled it all out. Did they clean the blood off the walls? No. No. Again, that was a part of the thing. I did find it interesting that the Lutzes, and I don't know, is this true that they used all of the DeFeo's furnishing? I can't remember if that was in the movie or if there was, I think they did end up using a lot of their same furniture. Yeah, they used the same, I believe that that is true, but I don't know. Side stories, LPOTL, Legima.com.

Is every story we talk about today going to be a Simpsons episode? Yeah.

Famously, the supposed ordeal that George and Kathy Lutz suffered after moving into the Amityville house was chronicled in a book by author Jay Anson called The Amityville Horror, which was subsequently turned into a wildly successful film franchise. And so, as with the other stories, let's first cover the official version. Yes, this is the Amityville is real, the haunting is real, and we're going to go with it for now.

Now, the Lutzes claimed that even before they'd spent a single night in the house, the strange occurrences began. Because of the murders, they'd asked a priest named Father Beccararo to bless the house on the day they moved in. Yeah, no problem. I'll bless it. Yeah, yeah. All right. That's easy for me to do. You want to bring my brother, Father Beccarino? He'll bring some cheese. But when the priest entered the room where DeFeo's two younger brothers had been killed, he heard a voice telling him to... Get out. No.

The priest said that he didn't tell the Lutzes about the voice, but did advise them to not use that space as a bedroom. I would feel like, I'd be like, if you actually heard a voice saying get out, it's not about the one room, buddy. Yeah. It's about the house. Yeah. It's definitely about the house. And they did indeed listen and instead turned it into Kathy's sewing room. They openly were, they were full atheists, the Lutzes. They did not believe in anything. Yeah.

Let's fill it with needles. Now, if you go off Ronnie DeFeo's early claims, in which he said that demons made him kill off his entire family, the infestation of the DeFeo home had begun long before the Lutzes arrived. There was a belief that the DeFeo family was experiencing things in the home, which is why they went and bought this idol, this religious idol that they thought, quote unquote, this is, again, according to the wardens, that

that they bought this religious idol to protect the home. And then they would go on to surround the home with these garish statues. And that's not just because the DeFeos had a shitty Italian taste of decoration. It's because it was to protect the house. And it's not just gaudy, weird marble things that I guess are just given to families in Long Island.

What were the idols? Just like a Virgin Mary and a St. Peter and the very, very Italian outdoors. St. Francis of Assisi. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sitting there with a bunch of squirrels and birds and shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just going like, ain't you guys got any money? Yeah, and it's supposedly the whole thing resulted, like the whole thing culminated with the demon possessing Ronnie DeFeo and Ronnie DeFeo murdering the entire family because of the demon.

Nevertheless, the Lutzes' experience started small, conveniently following Ed Warren's demon possession timeline.

Strange smells ranging from bile to perfume began emanating from different parts of the house. Hundreds of flies infested the sewing room despite it being the middle of winter. Black stains appeared on the toilets and green slime ran down the walls. You got slime, Henry? I do have slime. It is a thing that comes up quite often which is called an amputation.

According to Ed Warren. Apportation? Apportation. Apportation, yeah. Well, things then allegedly turned physical. Kathy Lutz was touched on multiple occasions, and George was awoken every night at 3.15 a.m., which was the alleged time of the DeFeo murders. It's also 3 a.m. See, 9 to 6 are the busy hours for ghosts. This is true. 9 p.m. to 6 a.m. That's when ghosts are on shift.

And that's when they're most powerful. 3 p.m. is ghost's lunch, which is why the 3 a.m., that's a ghost's lunch period, which is why they are most busy in our homes. Yeah, and when his sleep apnea kicked in. Yeah. George then began having visions, seeing his wife as an old hag. And Kathy even allegedly levitated above their bed.

and deciding they needed spiritual guidance, the Lutzes once again contacted Father Pecoraro, who refused to step foot back in the house after his first experience. With no one else to turn to, the Lutzes packed up after 28 days and moved in with Kathy's mother on another part of Long Island. Another win for a Long Island mother. This is where Ed and Lorraine Warren enter the picture, and by this point, they'd become quite the media-savvy pair.

They arrived with a psychic named Alex Tannis and a reporter from a local news station. And together, they were going to perform a seance to attempt contact with the spirits infesting the Amityville house. Now, according to Ed Warren, the second that he got a call about the Amityville house, things were going wrong in his own home. Things were like...

Telephone was going off. He needed to pick it up and go, hello? No one there. He said one of the worst things is that he knew something was wrong. So when he arrived at the Amityville house and he was walking up the stairs, he tripped. He never trips. That's what he says. Instead, he was like, I know. Because you see, my feet are too small to trip. Oftentimes, it's like my toes actually get out of the way of my feet before they're even in the way. So it's actually many times. It's actually extremely impossible for me to fall down.

I don't know. He seems a little weak. He's got the little legs and the gigantic belly, which... Feel these feet! Touch my legs! Touch my legs! You tell me! This is the legs of a big, thick Italian boy! Actually, those are pretty... He does have pretty strong legs. This is... You don't think I don't have... If you

want to know something about ed warren's body it's you it's here yeah like if you want to know same size hey i bet you if we if he had like inside outside of the chinese theater if he had his handprints and his footprints it would fit i know it'd be exactly the same all right same size well strip excuse me let me take off my spanks it's gonna take 45 minutes right from your grave

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Now, if you'll remember, Lorraine Warren was the psychic of the pair who was sensitive to both spirits and auras everywhere she went. When she entered the Amityville house, she said that she felt an immediate and overwhelming sense of dread, saying that it was the deepest and closest to hell she ever wanted to get. When they went in, Lorraine, so she's obsessed with this guy. So anything that's from Italy, Lorraine trusts implicitly.

So she was just like, I was under the spiritual tutelage of a saint by the name of Padre Pio. And I saw him. Look at these pictures. And they show all these pictures of Padre Pio. She's an old man with a hood on. He's like, can you see the holiness coming from him? He was from the Vatican.

And I held his symbol close to me knowing, oh, Padre Pio, you will save me. You will protect me. And all you hear is like, si. Si, Lorraine. I will protect you with my body. It's like, oh, ay, ay, ay, Padre Pio. Mmm, ay, ay, ay, indeed. But then Ed Warren walked in, because first of all, she's holding, she's clutching this, and you can see in these pictures, she's clutching, she's looking around, very scary. And

Ed Warren's like, I'm going to the center of the hurricane. So he was like, I'm going down to the center of the hurricane. Honestly, if you spend hours... He's going to the center of the hurricane. If you listen to Ed Warren talk, honestly, he does not say full words. I'm now discovering that's what the Connecticut accent is. It's mush mouth. And so he went down there and he was like, this is what I was saying before. It's like he's hunting quail. He's like, the way you got to get the attention of a demon.

Religious provocation. So you go in there and go, oh, I love Jesus Christ. Oh, Jesus. He's a good man of mine. I love that buddy. He's my best friend. You go down. He went downstairs. So he does this because he barely sees ghosts. But he knows a way to get a demon to jump at you is that you throw a cross everywhere. And you basically just throw holy water into the air and go, come at me, demon. He's the first ghost, bro. Yeah, he is. He really is a ghost, bro. He goes in screaming. It's an aggressive thing. And so he says here.

He went down to the basement and he was like, and I felt the single most repressive piece of spiritual activity I've ever experienced. Like a hundred needles pushed me down on the ground. And then Ed Warren did his patented, which he calls his religious resistance. And this is completely legitimate where he goes, religious resistance. And he goes, the power of Christ means that you will not, the power of Christ means you will let me go. The power of Christ means you won't touch me anymore. And he's like, God,

Demons are so scared of the holiness of Ed Warren, demons run away. Literally saying religious resistance. Which is amazing. It's like citizens arrest. It is so good. It's like fucking a cast magic missile. Religious resistance, get away from me. But he said then he came out of the basement of the Amityville Horror House and just was like, we gotta go.

and got everybody out. Now, of course, nothing happened when they finally did film the seances. And three representatives from the American Psychical Foundation and the Psychical Research Foundation determined there was nothing paranormal in the house. There were a lot of psychical foundations in the 70s. Psychical was a word that they used to give paranormal activity a scientific kind of sound. They worked

trying they were trying real hard i'm not saying that facetiously i'm just saying it's like they try psychical was that they try to get that to catch on like you know in ghostbusters where they're studying at a university and until they lose their funding you've never been in a private sector they expect results yeah now these are the guys that were the ghost these are the guys of the american psychical foundation those are the guys of the ghostbusters before they get fired okay

But the Warrens did take a series of photos, and they claimed that in one photo, they captured the ghost of one of the DeFeo children. Now, the photo is extremely creepy, appearing to show a little boy with glowing eyes peeking out from behind a banister. It's in black and white. It's everything you want from a ghost photo. Yeah.

But it is generally believed that the photo is actually of one of the Warren's assistants, a guy named Paul Bartz. He just had a tiny head. He's a little man. Yeah, he's a little guy. And happened to look when the flash, because they always put the flash on at like the highest possible level. Oh, they do. He says that you have to.

Yes. To see ghosts. That's what Ed Warren says. Yeah, of course. But that's the thing is that by doing that, he's creating the conditions to make a little white blob. He's doing photography badly. That's how you get ghosts. That's how you see ghosts. He also, do you know there's a second photo from the Amityville house? No. So when I was going through all the footage, there's a second photo and you see Lorraine Warren in a room and you see there is a moose head on the wall and

And she swears, she's like, and if you look close in this capture, you see within the horns, she called them horns, the face of Padre Pio. And you just see this thing where she swears it's the face of Padre Pio watching over her from the horns of the moose. Then you see the very end of this horn, this little thing. And it's like, you have to notice, it is like, if you notice right here, right at the very top part, right at the end of the antler, little head. And if you see right there, is that not?

Ronnie DeFeo. And if you look at the end of this moose's horn, you will see there is a little head. I'll show it to you. It doesn't make any sense. Yeah, because Ronnie DeFeo is in prison at this point. Is it like in that fucking episode of Twin Peaks where Josie turns into the fucking... She's captured inside. I still think it's bad photography. Yeah.

But it was, he's like, it's just funny where he's just like, it's the look on his face. He's so happy. He's so happy. So he's talking to Tony Sparrow in all of these various videos. And he's like, if you just look, he's like, right there, little head. It's that, just the...

That's what seals it. Like, he's just so excited. He's very mad at that. You can't even argue against that. No, he doesn't let you. No, you can't. He'll punch you in the face. He'll attack you. He'll physically attack you. Now, the photo was not shown publicly until 1979, when

Kathy and George Lutz were on the Merv Griffin show promoting the big budget movie adaptation of the Amityville Horror, which we've all seen. It's fucking Margot Kidder. It's great. James Garner. Brolin. Brolin. Josh Brolin's dead. Yeah, yeah, James Brolin. Yeah, they're all great. He plays such a good, like, classy maniac. Yeah. Because that's like back in the day when beards meant you were crazy. Yeah.

And here is where we get to the real story. Now, it is very possible that there was some sort of paranormal activity going on in this house. If there was going to be a place where there was going to be paranormal activity, if you believe in the idea that trauma creates ghosts, that's where it would be. Yeah. But when you start listening to the people involved in publicizing the story, it's safe to say that it was not the portal to hell that Lorraine Warren claimed it to be.

Allegedly, the entire scheme to push the DeFeo home as a haunted house of unimaginable horrors was created by Ronnie DeFeo's defense attorney, William Weber. See, if you'll remember, the Lutzes moved into the house just a year after the murders, and Ronnie DeFeo hadn't yet gone to trial. In fact, he was planning on pleading not guilty by reason of insanity. They were going to use the demon angle.

Now, this story is a little convoluted because it is an idiotic plan. It helps when the plan's also fucking stupid and you're trying to kind of describe it. But William Weber approached the Lutz family with a book contract, saying that a ghost story based around the DeFeo case could somehow help DeFeo's defense, and the Lutzes could make a pretty penny in the process. But there's going to be a murderer on the loose that loves killing people in your home. Yes, yes, but think about the book deal.

That just leads to more book deals, buddy. If he comes back and kills everybody again. No, no, no, no, no. Go to the hospital. You'll never have to deal with him. He'll never see it. He's not coming back here. Now, the original deal was that a writer named Paul Hoffman was going to take 40% of the profits, while Weber, who was the defense attorney, George and Kathy Lutz, and two other people involved in the deal, they would all take 12% each.

And as this was before the Son of Sam laws, which prevented criminals from profiting off their crimes, each one of those people would shave off a little bit off of their own percentage to make sure that Ronnie DeFeo ended up with 5%. I mean, he wouldn't have a book without him. Yep. So you might as well.

But in a case of the grifter getting grifted, the Lutzes were savvy enough to deny the deal but steal the idea. And they took the story to writer Jay Anson for a far more lucrative 50-50 split.

This is the one family. Because normally, this is always the criticism that comes up, is all the money that's made after these types of stories and how people financially profit from stories of their homes being haunted. And this is the one where the Lutz's, yes, they did make out pretty handsomely.

But is it worth it to make that much money for what it then does to destroy your entire life after the fact? So it just depends on how, what's your price? What's your price of never having a normal life ever again? But it's the same question that people ask like a,

Like a criminal. It's like, isn't it easier to just get a job than it is to steal cars? Oh, con jobs are so much harder. I was at Comedian, which is essentially a lifelong con job. It is so much more difficult than being an accountant. Yeah. Except I physically couldn't be one. Yeah. But that's the question people ask, but people still do it.

Yeah, sure. Man, when I worked at the poor house, there was like 10 owners, and they all would come in the office and kick me out, and then I'd come back and there'd be less money. I always had a joke that if none of the owners stole from each other, they'd all make the same amount of money. Yeah, you'd all just have the money.

and so after the publication of the amityville horror a legal battle ensued with the original deal makers and defao's lawyer came out and said that the entire story was a hoax created between himself and the lutzes over many bottles of wine and it could be the hell the lutzes might have like yes you know some really weird shits happening in this house and then it just you know sort of

from there. It gets bigger and bigger and bigger until it becomes the story of the Amityville horror, but the real story is probably just some real weird shit happening here. Well, then you have the two most influential, the Colonel Parkers of the paranormal world, Ed and Lorraine Warren, who can show up and can be like, hey. Oh, they anoint you. Oh, they anoint you. They anoint this house. They're like, here's the brand. Yeah. Warren's brand. Now we can do a bunch of shit with this. They remind me a lot of Otho. Yeah.

From Beetlejuice. It's just this idea that they could come in and they're like, there's money here. I realize as an adult, because it's Beetlejuice when I was a kid, I'm watching it and it's all fun and games because I'm just thinking about Beetlejuice. But then you realize, no, it's actually kind of like this funny concept about monetizing the paranormal. These stupid New York yuppies wanting to turn everything into a hustle. And they're doing the same thing. They just were an experiment.

Exploitive managers of ghosts. And he figured out how to basically turn them all out like the Jacksons. Yep. And ghosts are great talent because you don't got to pay them. You don't got to pay them. They don't got to get a cut. You know what I mean? And there needs to be some form of goth cop that can get in there and can get in between these con men and ghosts. Yeah, the goth ACLU. There has to be the goth ACLU that can arrive, act as ghosts, maybe just be...

Kind of, I don't know, undercover as ghosts. And she'll be like, oh my God, I'm chilled to the grave, Damien. Yes, totally a ghost. You know, like just fucking get their asses, dude, because they're fucking trying to drink ghost milkshake. That's right.

Well, even Ronnie DeFeo himself, the mass murderer, he said that the story was created by his lawyer in a bid to both bolster the insanity plea and make a large amount of money in the process, later saying that he never heard any demons at all. And DeFeo has never really, like, settled on...

why he did it. He's like, yeah, I killed my whole fucking family. And sometimes he'll say, he's like, yeah, I did it with my sister. And sometimes he'll say, yeah, I did it because they were going to cut me out of the will. Or, you know, he just, he changes it. Yeah, I did it because I was doing a whole shitload of acid at the time. Yeah. He was. He was. He was doing a lot of acid.

Well, the lawsuit was settled out of court. But in the end, the person who made the most money off Amityville was Jay Anton. As of today, the book has sold upwards of 10 million copies.

And the movie is still one of the highest grossing horror movies of all time. And that's just the first Amityville. There are how many, what, five? I think it was a remake, too. Yeah, and multiple remakes. The Lutzes, however, did not make quite as much money as you'd expect them to. And all they ended up with about $200,000. That's about a million bucks in today's currency.

It's pretty good, but nowhere near the 50-50 split they were promised. They did, however, make many paid appearances over the years. So there was that. So they got theirs. They got their little chunk of their story for themselves. But that was weirdly how the Warrens were both evil and not evil. They made sure you get a cut. If we're going to do this con, you get some. Yeah. But the third party to benefit off the Amityville story was, of course, Ed and Lorraine Warren.

Oh, yeah. You ever see part two? I'm certain I've seen all of them.

It's one of those where this is an entirely... They blend together. Yes, this is an entirely Amityville Horror 1 original great haunted house film. The rest are kind of bleh. I put them in the same category as the Psycho sequels. Yeah, and House 2. I liked House 2, though. People Under the Stairs 2. People Under the Stairs 2 is bad.

But when it came to the Warrens and movie adaptations, none oversold their involvement more than the sequel to The Conjuring. They just, that's all packaging and marketing. Got it. So The Conjuring 2 took Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmiga, the actors who played Ed Lorraine Warren, across the Atlantic to the UK, where they were portrayed as central characters in what I consider to be the most credible haunting in modern history. That's just my opinion, but it's what I consider.

That is the case of the Enfield poltergeist. I put it up there as one of my favorites. Yeah. Now, we just recently revisited the Enfield case on our new show. Last update on the left. Yeah. But if you don't subscribe or you just don't fucking feel like it, don't worry about it. We did do an extensive full two-part series. Yes, we did. So you can just go listen to that. There's a lot of stuff on Enfield. Yeah, our statements on Enfield and Amityville have already been expressed. Yeah, and not to...

get people to not listen to our show, but the Apple show was awesome. The Apple TV documentary about Enfield is incredible. It was wonderful. That's the whole reason why pretty much the update is just us talking about that. Yeah, it's great. I love that documentary series. Now, the broad strokes of the Enfield story is that a divorcee named Margaret Harton and her four children living in council housing in the London suburbs were haunted by a poltergeist starting in August of 1977.

Soon after the story hit the papers, two legitimate and credible investigators named Guy Playfair and Maurice Gross got involved. And Maurice Gross was another true, stylistically important member of the Paranormal Society. They all kind of look like you. Ha ha!

Just a bit. It's like if you put all of them together, it's you. Yeah. Wow. With a convertible. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was Maurice Gross or was it Guy Playford who drove the convertible? Guy Playford. No, Maurice Gross drove the convertible. The ugly one drove the convertible, which you got to do. Fucking having fun with it. He was the fun guy. They all liked him best, though. He's the kind of guy you don't see coming, right? Maurice Gross. You don't think you're going to fuck that guy.

But the thing is, yeah, he's got a handlebar mustache and he's got sort of Mr. Monopoly hair. The thing is, he goes down like a fucking demon. You don't think he don't eat pussy like it's a fucking ghost, do you want to guess?

Well, over a period of 14 months, Playfair and Gross conducted the most in-depth and convincing investigation into a case of paranormal activity ever documented. I believe that they did what the Warrens wish they could. They did more than the Warrens ever wish they could have done. Well, the Warrens didn't want to do it.

Well, they didn't believe in the scientific process. No, they didn't believe in the science. The Warrens had their way of doing things, which they believed was the only way of doing things, and their way of doing things was based entirely on faith, while Playfair and Gross, their way of doing things was based entirely on what can we prove. Yes. They were sitting there with a recorder every fucking day. Yes. No, no, they were putting in the work. They didn't just shit, because the Warrens just show up, they yell a bunch, and then they leave.

That's not investigation. I don't see anything wrong with that. I don't see somebody who's very little prepared, who arrives and improvises a great deal, and he might be a bit different bodied than other men. That doesn't make him a con man or someone who doesn't deserve a beautiful wife and a home and a life.

But since the Enfield Poltergeist case became such big news in the UK, word of the story eventually got back to Ed and Lorraine Warren. We gotta get there! Who arrived on the Hodgson's doorstep unannounced and uninvited right in the middle of the investigation. All right, you British fucks! Everybody out!

America has arrived. Now, The Conjuring 2 portrayed this situation as a holy war between the Warrens and the evil spirit, which also involved the painting of a nun, which spun off into two highly profitable nun movies as a part of the ever-expanding Conjuring universe. There is no...

actual story tied to Ed Warren's painting of a nun. None of that is real. None of it is connected to anything. No final battle between the Warrens. No painting of a nun in the fucking Hodgson's house. Ask me how many of those movies I saw. How many of those movies did you see? None. Ha ha ha!

Ah, EddieDudes.com, it doesn't stop there. He will have sex with your father. Let me see your balls, old man. Come on, let him see your father's balls. I didn't even make it through the first one. The nun is, Natalie. It was so bored. Natalie left the theater as I was watching it. I fell asleep. She went outside and went on her phone for 20 minutes outside of the theater.

After I came, I fell asleep. Well, in fact, the Warrens spent exactly one day at the Hodgson house before being chased off after proving themselves to be, in Guy Playfair's opinion, cynical opportunists.

From what Playfair recalled about his conversation with the Warrens, Ed boasted that he could help Playfair make a lot of money in this case if he played his cards right. And Playfair remembered thinking that that was all he needed to know about Ed and Lorraine Warren. Sounds like a fucking nerd to me. Well, he's cutting his money. Of course. He's like, oh, I'm going to have to give this fucker a...

Oh, yeah, this fat idiot shows up and now you get 10%. I mean, Guy Playfair did write the book on the infield poltergeist. But he so undersold the story. He's British. Yeah, he undersold the story quite a bit. He's British. He didn't know. He didn't know the power of storytelling. Ed Warren, again, Colonel Parker of ghosts. He just shows up and gets his 10%.

Yeah. Playfair told Ed that money wasn't their goal. And after the Warrens had a spirited and friendly discussion with Maurice Gross, they actually play it in the documentary and it's just the three of them just bullshitting in the kitchen. Oh, yeah. Yeah. The Warrens left. Never to return. One day. The story told in the pro-Warren biography, The Demonologist, however, is altogether different. You know, I've been reading The Demonologist and I will say, and also was reading The Devil in Connecticut...

poorly written books, but you know what's nice is with how poorly written they are, much more easy to follow than most of the esoteric books I read. I wouldn't call these books esoteric, though. I'm just saying, but Ed Warren does teach you his process throughout these books. Sure, because it's extraordinarily oversimplified and it's all based on faith. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yep. You know, I can't help but think, like, so they went all the way to Europe to do this, all the way to London or whatever to see the Enfield poltergeist. Yeah. Yeah.

You think they did anything else? They had a vacation. Yeah, they went on vacation. It was a work vacation, buddy. Boom, done. Work vacation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Literally out of there one day and the rest of it's all expenses paid. Go to the stupid Ferris wheel. I mean, like, would you even believe that? I can't even believe it. The beer's warm. Well, Ed blamed the phenomenon on the mother being divorced and being on welfare and additionally blamed the girls for using a Ouija board.

Ed also claimed that he investigated the haunting for a week instead of what it really was, which was one conversation in the kitchen. We're going to see his involvement in these stories and all these things. This is going to be a trope. Yeah. It's going to he's going to exaggerate more and more as we go. Yeah. And you will also see that the more he is actually involved in the story, the worse things are.

Well, in his version of the Enfield Poltergeist, he claimed that the girls described seeing black, cloudy figures manifest out of thin air. This claim is especially galling, because from what I can remember from the hundreds of hours of tapes recorded in the Hodgson house, I don't remember them ever talking about spirit manifestations, much less demonic cloud monsters.

No. No, they did not say any of that shit. It actually was a fairly compelling, haunting story that involved all the fishy stuff was her jumping and there was like the story of them, you know, cornering the girls and one of them sort of admitting that they were making it up. But that even was done behind closed doors and was super weird. It was with that, the puppeteer.

puppeteer guy, ventriloquist. Yeah, ventriloquist cornered a couple of little girls, got a couple of little girls alone in a room and convinced them to say that everything was a hoax. Because guess what? All you have to do is throw your voice across the room and all of a sudden they're going like...

And they're like, the other girl's like, that's amazing. And he's like, see, he didn't move my mouth. I didn't open my zipper either. That's what I liked about Playfair and Gross, too. He's like, yeah, they did try hoaxing a lot of it. They were very bad at it. Yeah, they were dumb. They were bad at it. There were a couple of little girls. There was a ton of shit that they did not hoax. But really, Ed's claims about their involvement at Enfield, they're relatively harmless lies.

But that was not the case two years later in 1980 when the Warrens became involved with the case of young David Glatzel. This was the infamous devil made me do it case, which was a straight up murder portrayed in The Conjuring 3.

Now, to give credit where credit is due, much of the information about this case comes from the highly recommended Netflix documentary The Devil on Trial, which very much shows how intensely traumatized a person can become after going through a so-called exorcism. This is one of my favorite parts about this series is that there's so many elements.

angles of information, you can really see where everybody by everybody's bias lives. Yeah. Because Ed Warren and Lorraine Warren want to, they have all of their versions of the stories are heavily documented and they put it down beat by beat by beat by beat. What's nice about this one is that you got the courts involved.

So you have to have, there is some outside eyeballs on this story. And Amityville as well also got the courts involved as well. Yeah, so there's some outside eyeballs looking at this, so it's really interesting. I don't know what happened. We talk about exorcisms all the time. Most of the time it seems to be a really good way to just torture a child for a bunch of weeks.

David Glatzel was 11 years old in 1980, and he claimed to have his first run-in with the devil at the home of his sister Debbie and her boyfriend Arnie.

After seeing visions of an evil old man, Glatzel claimed that one night he was violently pushed back on his bed, then saw what looked like the sort of devil one might see in a 70s Halloween costume. You know, the red bodysuit, the horns, the cape, the pitchfork. John Candy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

But the eyes, Glatzel said, were black as a chunk of coal. And David, again, 11 years old, or Adam Sandler in Dirty Work. Come with me! Sorry, that immediately got in there. But the eyes, Glatzel said, were black as a chunk of coal. And David, again, 11 years old, felt as if the devil himself was coming for his soul.

Now, since David was from a Catholic family, his mother called their local priest to bless the house. This, however, seemed to only make the entity angrier. David's behavior became worse. And before the Glatzels knew it, Ed and Lorraine Warren, still riding high off Amityville, they were knocking on the door. Now, the Glatzels found the Warrens to be quite affable, the sort of people you could trust, which is how most people saw the Warrens. They said Ed was down to earth. Yeah. Lorraine, just wispy enough to talk to. Mm-hmm.

But Ed, possibly overconfident after tasting a bit of fame, he went all in on attacking the supposed demon from the word go. Oh, yeah, dude. Now, Ed started questioning young David Glatzel, provoking what was there. Think you're better than me? Think you're fucking better than me?

Well, after religious talk, holy water, and the invocation of Christ's name, Ed got the entity good and angry, then asked it to knock three times if it had the power. And according to some members of the Glatzel family, this supposedly happened. Three knocks powerful enough to shake the whole house came soon after Ed's request.

Meanwhile, Lorraine had been, quote unquote, discerning the vibrations of the family, trying to figure out who all the demon had attached to. This is when Lorraine pointed to David and said that there was a large dark mass standing next to the little boy. It was, as they suspected, a demon. And this absolute declaration terrified everyone present. See, this was a...

This pattern. This was a show that they had built. They walk in. He does confront the demon. But Lorraine is a really interesting sidekick. Because like...

Ed's all in your face. It's very kind of like an actual magic show. He's being super gregarious and funny and engaging and directly really intense and yelling at you. Lorraine's walking around clenching her chest like this mysterious person. They do this each time. They kind of split up. She walks around the house. He talks directly to the daemon. She comes back in the room, and apparently it's all this, where she goes up to...

Ed, as they're questioning, she goes, like, whispers in his ear, like, remember when 9-11? Yeah. When he went up to him being like, hey. You gotta stop reading this book. You gotta say, hey, stop. I know this book is great, but something's going on. But she goes up, she's like, there's the demon right there.

Like, she comes up right next to him as he's talking to him, and it's this whole, like, everyone's like, no, shit! They fucking did it! It's a good show! Yeah, and continuing his spiel, Ed told the family that David was already in the oppression stage of possession, the second stage, in which the demon speaks to him and urges him to do things that are out of character. The next stage was possession, and Ed explained, in David's presence, what they could expect if and when that happened.

But before anyone could do anything about this demon, David's mother had to document everything that happened so they could formally request an exorcism from the Catholic Church. So in other words, the Warrens showed up, scared the hell out of the Glatzel family, and left them with a boatload of Vatican paperwork to fill out. I fucking hate people.

And Vatican paperwork, which is literally printed on the skin of children. Oh, my God. It's so hard to write on. Catholic paperwork is so fucking annoying. Oh, I bet. I thought, doesn't God know everything? Can't God...

fucking handle this fucking paperwork? Why does God make me have to do a signature? Doesn't God know I'm fucking here? Yeah, man. I had to become a godfather recently. Oh, I had to do that garbage too. And they sent me a thing in the mail and it's like, if this is bent then it doesn't, like if you crease this piece of paper then it's all null and void and it's like... Yeah, dude.

If I crease this paper, God should straighten it out. Well, predictably, soon after Ed and Lorraine's visit, David Glatzel did indeed appear to become possessed. He raged and screamed almost constantly, made demonic noises, growled, cursed out his family. Eventually, he would physically attack anyone who came near him. He started choking himself to the point of passing out. If you watch the documentary, like, he was a, I mean, because that's the thing, he was like 11, 12, but he was a

Big 11-12. I know that story. Yeah, he had a lot of meat. He really had quite a lot of meat. He's a big boy. He did kind of like, I feel like this is probably very similar to what Tom Hanks had to deal with with Chet. He was uncontrollably, I just kept thinking last night when I was watching from the stream, I was thinking about

Bad things happen to heavy children. But he was a meaty boy. But according to Ed Warren, you wouldn't even believe. If you look at the size of his father, of course he's going to be that big. His father was Grizzly Adams. But even he...

could keep the little boy down on the bed when he was jumping up and down. Like, he was, like, talking about this concept that, like, because he was, the dad was big. Yeah, he's huge. The dad was big. And he said that, like, it took six grown men to keep the little boy on the bed. It's puberty. Yeah.

As a result, family members took shifts so they could keep an eye on David lest he hurt himself or someone else. And David's sister's boyfriend, Arnie Johnson, he would also take shifts. Arnie Johnson, the boyfriend, he completely bought into every single bit of this. What a good guy. The phone.

We'll find out. I love that. The father, however, was working two jobs and he wasn't home much. So he more or less stayed out of it.

But around the time the family started sitting with David in shifts, his mother once again contacted the Warrens. Now, Ed naturally said that David was now absolutely possessed. Of course. And if this continued, the devil himself was going to destroy their family and someone could quite possibly wind up dead by the end of it. Now, this is saying he's led her to her own devices. She's doing her own exorcisms online.

on David as they go. This, of course, led to even more panic, but the Warrens managed to fast-track the paperwork and a minor exorcism was approved. Actually, three minor exorcisms were approved. You know that, right? There's minor and major exorcisms, there's baby exorcisms, and there's fucking big-time exorcisms. Is it for adults and children? No, it's like one's considered like a half-step measure that's sort of like an appetizer to an exorcism. Hey, how about you stop this? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hey, listen, we've all been kind of talking about this and we feel like you're bumming people out. But then they do a big one. But apparently it takes less paperwork to get a small one. Yeah. Now, David Glatzel, who still believes wholeheartedly that he was possessed, he says that the last thing he remembered concerning the exorcism was the beginning of the ritual, which starts with the recitation of the Lord's Prayer.

It was said that the room then got cold, which was followed by David entering full-on possession mode, growling, jerking, and such and such. Supposedly when a priest named Father Virgulak... And if I'm getting a fucking exorcism, I want Father Virgulak to do it. Oh no, I definitely want to cling on to be there. He placed a crucifix on David's forehead, and it supposedly sizzled, and David turned blue as his tongue swelled up in his mouth.

You were telling me something about how these things work, like these things that people see, these incredible things that people see. This also happened in the Amityville Horror House. Now, what you see, what you guys don't understand is none of you understand. Yeah, I'm an idiot. You're an idiot. Anybody who's listening to me is a fucking idiot.

So a lot of times, like in the Amityville Horror House, one of the things that Les has described was that there was a series of events that happened, like the banister to the main stairs exploded.

But then you notice that when you went in to go look after the fact, there was a banister. It was attached. Don't know why. Couldn't find any of the flies they heard. Because what that was, as a matter of fact, was a thing called telepathic hypnosis that Ed Warren swears by, which is the idea that the demons make you see stuff that's not there so that you become a liar against yourself.

So that what they do is it projects these things into your mind of these are what you see. And then you go and tell people to terrorize you just on your own. But then when you go tell people that this thing happened to me and then they show up to go look and there's no quote unquote evidence of it. It's because the picture of it was put in your mind by the demon just to make you upset. And then you're then doubly upset because then you had to lie to your friends.

It's like in the gate when the kids wake up and get out of hell and the house is fine and the parents come home and it's like, don't worry about it. Or at the end of Troll 2 where it turned out it was not fine and the ball comes rolling out and turns out the whole family has been taken by the trolls. Nice. Well, so you're saying... So that he saw this in his head. Yeah, so you're saying that all of the... So you're saying that he puts the crucifix on his forehead and says, well, that didn't happen. No. But... It's the demon making him think it happened.

So did it really happen? Do things that you think happen, happen because you think that they happen? Or do they happen because they happen? Maybe covered in a bunch of hot sauce. That's what you did to me. Yeah. In Murfreesboro. Yeah. Well, no, I wasn't a part of that. No, no. You came over to my house covered in hot sauce and I sold you weed. Yes. Thank you. I still want to say thank you for that.

But no, it's very interesting. It's the way he talks out the concept of... It's how he explains away these things, like these crazy things that supposedly happen during exorcisms that never get caught on camera. And in hauntings in general. And then it's just that it happens in your mind. And what's interesting is if you look up telepathic

that was one of the main things that the CIA was worried about with the Russians is that they thought that they could telepathically change our minds from Moscow. And that's why we stepped up the psychic spy program. Oh, the men who stare at goats type shit. Well, this... Does that help anything? Have I helped? No, more or less. Well,

Well, this was during just one of the three exorcisms done on David Glatzel, which, as we know, can often be drawn out torturous affairs for the people supposedly being exorcised. And everyone else. Yes. Near the end, though, afraid that David was going to die, Arnie Johnson, the boyfriend, he called out for the devil to take him instead. Take me instead! We did that. He's like, quit messing with my little buddy. Yeah. Quit messing with my little buddy and be on me. Yeah.

And that's when the exorcism just sort of ended. Although Ed Warren did admonish Arnie for opening himself up to demon possession. They all were angry. Lorraine still talks about it. She was just like, that is, you never challenge a demon. Yeah, because Ed and Lorraine were there during all the exorcisms. Like, Ed's there throwing the fucking whole order. And it was recorded. It's all recorded. But their entire job is challenging demons. Yeah, but not Arnie's job. Yeah, Arnie doesn't know how to do it.

Or they don't do it right. Because remember, Ed Warren is a fucking, he's a Christian superhero. Ed and Lorraine are superheroes in their own mind. Ed Warren got bitten by a radioactive Christ. He is literally, he is spirituality personified. Yeah, sure, he might not seem like that when you're collecting his tolls on the highway because he's a bit irate because he doesn't understand taxes go back to help everybody. But also, he just fucking knows that his religiosity is

Is that its maximum? And Arnie's the gung-ho rookie that gets shot on this first shootout. Oh, just tell Teresa. Tell Teresa I love her. Now, Lorraine Warren claimed that after that, after Arnie said, come at me. Come inside me, ghost. Come at me.

She was getting visions of Arnie Johnson committing violence with a knife. She even called up the police and said, hey, I think Arnie Johnson is going to commit a crime with a knife, which the police can't really do anything about that. No, you can't say, yeah, my buddy Arnie is going to do something. And you're like, yeah, probably. His name's Arnie. Well, from what she said, the devil does not strike right away, but will wait until you're vulnerable.

And it was said that after the exorcism, Arnie was starting to show some of the same symptoms of demon possession as David. So that he would like, his girlfriend said that he would start to like hallucinate, do the growling thing, pass out. Fuck your mother. I'm fucking your mother in hell. I'm going to fuck her.

Fat blue tongue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fat blue tongue. Weird stuff. Meanwhile, Arnie moved in with Debbie Glatzel. This didn't prevent her from moving in with the guy. Loved him. Still loved him. Honestly, it just shows how hard it is to be a single lady. Yeah, and by the way, she stayed with him all through everything that's about to come. She stayed with him, and they're still married to this day. That's a good woman. Wow. Debbie soon got a job as a dog groomer working for their landlord, a guy named Alan Bono.

This, of course, is when Lorraine's supposed visions came to pass in A Murder Most Violent. God, you see this movie, it's so fucking bad. Conjuring 3 sucks so fucking much. Is that the one where they have all the different religions around him at the end? Like, doing the exorcism?

Maybe. Maybe. Yes! Yeah, they bring in the rabbi, and they bring in, oh yeah, it might be. And this is the movie we're also talking about. Or is that The Exorcist? It might be the new Exorcist. Maybe. I don't know. I've derailed us. I saw it like this. But it's one of those.

All I know is I saw The Conjuring 3 and it fucking sucked. I remember getting mad. It was so bad. It sucks. So on February 16th, 1981, months after Arnie did the whole take me thing during the exorcism, he, Debbie Glatzel, Arnie's younger sisters, and their landlord, Alan Bono, they were all hanging out.

Now, Alan Bono was day drinking and he was day drinking heavy. In the movie, they do this thing where he's like playing the radio too loud, but it's at the dog groomers. And it's just like, it's like you're torturing all these dogs. And he's like doing all this cocaine and smoking weed in it. Yeah, because Alan Bono, he owned a dog kennel and he did dog grooming. And that's where Debbie was working at the time. And he also, he was their landlord, but they were also hanging out.

It's back in the day. People used to hang out with our landlords. Yeah, it's 1981. It's weird. Yeah, I find it's best to be drunk when you yell at dogs. Leave them alone. I don't know. I was friends with one of my landlords back in Lubbock. Yeah, in Tallahassee, we were always friends with our landlords because it turned out they were like, now I realize I thought they were ancient, but they were like 25. Yeah.

Well, after Alan started day drinking, Debbie told everyone to leave because Alan was getting weird and aggressive. This, Arnie claimed, was the last thing he remembered. From later testimony, Bono grabbed Arnie's sister's arm and refused to let go. Arnie confronted him, and while his sister ran for the car, Debbie tried standing between Arnie and Bono. Arnie was the only one who could get him out of the car.

Arnie then began growling like an animal and pulled out a pocket knife, which he used to repeatedly stab Alan Bono, ripping open his chest and stomach, killing him. And, you know, it's not easy to kill somebody with a small knife, but if you do it fast, you do that fact that, like, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, and you, oh, fuck, fuck! You know what I mean? Like, that's how you get somebody fast. You're literally practicing for prison. Stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick,

The next time Arnie was seen, he was being picked up two miles from the scene of the crime. And according to his story, he woke up in the police station having no idea why he was there or what had happened. And they showed him the movie and apparently that's how it was. He was covered in blood. The cops came up to him and he was like...

Mm-hmm. Now, immediately, most of the Glatzel family and the Warrens were convinced that Arnie had been possessed by one of the demons that had possessed David. And it was this demon that made Arnie murder Alan Bono. As a matter of fact, they were so sure, they went straight to the police. Yeah, that day. Yes. Arnie's defense attorney, however, a man named Martin Manella, didn't believe the possessed by demons angle, but still went to speak with Ed and Lorraine Warren to learn more.

Now, Ed Warren...

The ones that just sound like a bunch of cats. He played the video. If you listen to the footage, if you listen to the possession footage, it does still just sound like a kid screaming. Yeah. When we covered Annalisa McKell and you hear those screams, I still feel like those screams were way more haunting for me. That's the screams of a dying girl. Yes, yes. But there's something here where this guy, I just feel like, let's just put it out there, Martin Manella.

was desperate for an angle and when he went in there and they're like you gotta look at this this is the only way it could possibly be there's no way because ed was so but he's like in this in this tape right here what you're hearing it's a little boy because it's true she goes because like daniel the glatzel's going you're a douchebag mom you're a douchebag and he's like no child

knows the word douchebag. You know, we used to go up to stuff like, how dare you think that anybody would call... Yeah, the 12-year-old boy would know the word douchebag. Also think about how fun that would be to fake being possessed so you can call your mom a fat bitch because that's all he does is call her a fat bitch over and over again. Like, how fun that would be to go like...

I hate you. And you can get away with all that shit, dog. You can say anything you want, dude. And that was one of the theories. Yeah, Radiohead sucks. Whoa, holy shit. He must be possessed.

Well, the problem with the devil made me do a defense is that one cannot legally prove nor disprove the existence of demons in a court of law. Manila, however, thought that he could make a convincing argument if he was allowed to play the war on tapes in court. Because they do talk about they consider God real in the court. That's what they're trying to say. It's like, well, we swear on the Bible. Exactly. Yeah. So why can't the devil be in there? And it's because you're trying to get a guy off for murder.

This other thing is literally a quaint old way we've always done things. It's an archaic symbol. Yes, of quote-unquote honesty, but it seems like more people that hold the Bible in their hand are lying more often than not. The other way it's like, but it's actually not an excuse for him killing somebody. Yeah. I mean, we can come to the conclusion that Arnie definitely was not pro bono. Anytoons.com, that's number three. Number three. Anytoons.com.

Well, concerning the Glatzel family, one member had a far different perspective on the affair than what was presented in The Demonologist and The Conjuring 3. That member is David Glatzel's older brother, Carl Glatzel. Carl believes that his brother was simply having severe mental health issues and said that while his mother put on the appearance of a holy roller in public, she never believed in demons until she met Ed and Lorraine Warren.

Furthermore, Carl Glatzel said that while David was certainly acting up before the Warrens arrived, it was only after Ed Warren walked David through the symptoms of possession did David start acting possessed. It started with the priest. The priest comes in, we're going to bless the house.

He starts acting a little crazy. And then when fucking Ed Warren comes in and says like, okay, this is what happens. He tells him exactly what to do. He says like, you know, you're going to make noises. You're going to curse out your mother. You're going to thrash around on the bed. You're going to like, he asks you these things and the way. Very leading questions. Yeah.

And basically, from Carl's perspective, the Warrens had given David a walkthrough on how to put on a show. Then they came by every day for a week to record that show, which gave everyone in the room exactly what they wanted. David got attention. He got praise while the Warrens got their evidence.

But as far as how Carl Glatzel knew that all this was just an act, he pointed to one telling if abusive incident. This is one of those that feels like like a Cat Williams bit, you know, where this is very like it's just very funny because I can I can see this playing out. I can see this. Yes, I can very much see this playing out.

Well, one night after the Warrens weren't coming around so much, but before the exorcism, David was doing his whole show. He was cursing at his mother. He was growling. He was making a hubbub. And apparently he was going too far. Yeah. Like he was saying stuff that was like really out of school about his mom. Yeah. This happened to be one of the nights that David's father was at home.

And deciding that he'd had enough, David's father stood up and slapped David in the face. Yeah, he came in. The big motherfucker. Yeah, the huge motherfucker. He picks him up. He's like, I'm sick of this shit. You're not going to fuck around with this anymore. He clocked him on the side of the head.

They threw him back down to the ground. Miraculously, David was no longer possessed. You know that dad voice? That is like a type of, I think that that voice, because my father was never around, but when he used the dad motion, it's like he could stop anything. Everything would stop on his tracks. My father could stop time with his voice. Yeah, when they would get kind of quiet too. Come here.

Yeah, come here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Watch him get up and see what that thing... Come here. Come here. Come with me. Come with me. You want me to look at that thing? Yeah. The act dropped immediately. And from then on, it seemed like the devil only liked coming around when David's father happened to be at work. Hey, I bet he was scared of the devil. He's been like, I actually do need this body case, so I can't let the father kill this thing. Yeah, I know I'm the devil and all that fucking...

I can't even believe that.

I invented pain. Concerning the murder of Alan Bono, Carl Glatzel recalled that Arnie Johnson was extremely possessive over his sister Debbie, and there were rumors that Debbie and Alan Bono were in a relationship. It seemed like they were like work wife, work husband. Yeah. That meant that there was definitely a motive to kill Alan Bono in a drunken moment of passion. And if this tells you anything, Arnie Johnson says he blacked out during the stabbing of Alan Bono because of demon possession.

But the first thing Johnson said when he was put into a police cruiser was, I need help because I've got a drinking problem. We all got demons. Sounds like a different kind of blackout to me. Yes, it does. It does sound like a different type of blackout. I do find there's an extreme similarity between David Glatzel later on when you watch in the documentary series to Daniel Lutz in Miami Evil Horror.

Yes. When you're watching Miami-Dade horror, which talks with him, like you see something in the two of them that is very, very similar, which is, uh, uh,

A lot of trauma. It's a lot of trauma for one reason or another. God knows. Yeah, God knows what the fuck happened to those two dudes. But in the end, the judge in Arnie's case did not accept his very real plea of not guilty by virtue of possession. This is the thing. Both Conjuring 3 and the documentary series, which is good, builds up all this stuff about we're going to put the devil on trial. We're going to do all this. And they're building up all this evidence. And both of them all turn on like...

We went to the judge and we couldn't go inside. And they literally, like, he just said no. He just didn't even let him in. Yeah, he's like, no. He...

Ed Warren showed up with six priests that were all supposed to go in, talk about the proof. He had this whole thing set up, and they didn't even let him in the office. They were like, no, you're not coming in here. Yeah, the judge just said, like, this is stupid. Stop wasting my fucking time. The devil literally never made it even close to being on trial. The devil couldn't even get jury selection. The devil was not in the courtroom. That is a judge that's getting reelected. Yes. Yes.

Well, after everyone who was present at the murder was forced to say that they did indeed see Arnie stab Alan Bono, Arnie had no choice but to pivot to a self-defense argument. Yeah, that's the thing. But if you stab somebody like a hundred times, it's hard to say that it was four times. It was four big stabs. Six. Four big, six small. But enough to rip open his belly. He did one stab and rip. They said it was too many stabs to be self-defense. Yeah.

He got manslaughter, though, at the very least. He didn't get first-degree murder. That's crazy. Yeah, and he was sentenced to 10 to 20 years, released after only five years.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's out there, man. And he still swears to this day that it was real and that he was possessed by the devil. Just keep him away from liquor. But that whole time while he was in prison, David Glatzel's mother was on a media tour with the Warrens. Together, they denounced the justice system for rejecting the devil made me do it defense. But at the same time, they were also striking some pretty lucrative deals.

The Warrens convinced Judy Glatzel that she could become rich if she sold the rights to her family's story. That included the rights of her children. And they all worked together on a book called The Devil in Connecticut. This was written by Gerald Brittle, the same dude who wrote The Demonologist. I want to learn more about Gerald Brittle. Yeah. Because I want to know why he was their mouthpiece. That's for next episode. According to the skeptic in this story, Carl Glatzel, Ed Warren told Gerald Brittle to, quote,

Make it scary. People come to us, they buy scary. But in the end, the Glatzels ended up making far less than even the Lutzes. They got $4,500. But the Warrens, who arguably helped torture this young boy, they made off with $80,000. Hey, it was our idea in the first place. Come on, don't sue me. And that's just off the book.

That doesn't even count the profits their estate made off The Conjuring 3. And by the way, not a single fucking dime from The Conjuring 3 went to the Glatzels, even though all of their real names and all of their stories are used in the movie. That was, of course, because their mother sold their rights when they were children. Wow, The Conjuring 3 got worse. Yes, it did.

Yes, it did. Yeah. It's not just because they used the little boy from the Haunting of Hill House as David Glatzel. Oh, yeah. That's right. It was the same kid. Yeah. Wow. That's weird, right? Yeah. Isn't it weird how all those little kids were in like six horror movies all at once? They look like haunted little children. They look good. They look spooky. Yeah, they were very well cast. Yes.

Now, David Glatzel, as I said, he still believes that he was possessed by demons, but he also believes that the Warrens used him and his family for profit and fame. But what is more interesting is what Carl Glatzel discovered after his mother died. According to Carl, his mother was an obsessive note-taker, and there were several notes from around the time of the possession saying that she had been giving her family doses of so-called medicine.

Carl deduced that his mother, overwhelmed with the large family and a husband who was never around, he deduced that she was drugging her children with a sleeping aid called Sominex. Because as David remembered, his mother always fed the family from a large bowl, but she always made...

I know. It's just a fucking, come get your slop, you fucking pigs. Good job you go. Here's your napkin. I'm Stu. Here, strap it to your face. But she always made a small separate plate for herself. Don't worry, I don't need any of that. I don't like stroking them.

Now, we couldn't find evidence of this claim, but Carl said that the long-term side effects of Somonex, maybe this is like the 70s ingredients in Somonex, the 70s formula. I couldn't sleep. I took a Somonex. I've never heard of Somonex. It's old school. It's very, very old school. It's like Tavistee, that shit that just knocks you out that worked for a while, but then you're like, oh, we got to get rid of this. Yeah, I think Somonex is much the same way. It's in my mind so I can go to see more, talk to see more. What? It's from Little Shop of Horrors.

Oh, did he take Somnix? Well, it's one of the cuts for the musical, not from the film. Oh, God damn you, fucking musical theater. We lose all credibility when you do this. Do you not think that Ed Warren doesn't come from my singular portrayal as a 17-year-old as Mr. Mushnik?

Well, at least in the 70s, the side effects for Somnix included emotional instability, hallucinations, and weight gain. And sure enough, David Glatzel was a chubby, chubby little boy. Bad things happen to heavy children. Now, these were the most famous cases involving the Warrens. Because Amityville's going to put them on?

the map. This is the one that broadcasts them across the world. Yeah. Amityville puts them on the map. The devil made me do it. That's also a massive story. Huge. These are the ones that are made into movies that together have grossed billions of dollars worldwide. I think it's two billion dollars altogether when you put all the Conjuring movies, all the entire universe, your Annabelle's, your Nun's, all that shit. Yes.

But these are only four cases out of the thousands in which the Warrens were involved. If you believe four to ten thousand is what they said. And it was some of the smaller ones that were the most bizarre. These were the Smurls, the Snedekers, and many others. All of which will be covered next week in our conclusion. Along with the allegations that Ed Warren was under the shield of being a warrior for Christ...

A sexual predator. You know, it's amazing how many vestiges have a little child underneath sucking on the knees of an old man. What? Well, let's move on. The show's over. There's nothing to move on to. Yeah, it's time to go. The show's over. That was the end. It's time to wrap it up.

Let's set a brighter side. Guys, this week we're talking about buying phones. And honestly, it ruined Eddie's life this week. It ruined Natalie's life this week. Amber as well. We all got destroyed by Verizon. It's true. They did. Natalie was in tears yesterday on the phone for four hours with Verizon. Jesus. No, it was very emotional. I literally thought I was going to get arrested. I'm like, I'm going to...

Some people go through civil wars. Some people go through genocide. Some people go through pestilences. But we have to deal with Verizon. Guys, go to patreon.com slash last podcast on the left to see our bodies wiggle back and forth. Next week, we're concluding the series. And it's going to get more dark than it is. It actually is going to get far darker because it's going to get very real. Yeah. Yeah. Which is how all these go.

Yeah, it's going to get very real. But yeah, on Patreon, you can watch these episodes in full. You can watch video episodes. You can also get interviews that are done. You can also get behind-the-scenes footage. We've been doing a lot of cool behind-the-scenes footage here at the LPN Studios. And you can also watch Last Stream on the left.

every Tuesday. You can watch that live and you can interact with us live before it goes to YouTube and you can check out because actually a lot of shit has to get cut before it goes to YouTube. I feel like this next one is going to specifically have a lot redacted. Yeah. So if you want to see the episodes in full as they happen, go join our Patreon. Patreon.com slash last podcast on the left and follow us on the socials at Instagram and TikTok at LP on the left.

Then go away. Go to lastpodcastandleft.com and see us live. We are coming to your cities and y'all titties. It's going to be a lot of fun. We got a story. We got shows that we're going to announce, but we can't yet till next week for side stories. June 8th. Seattle. Yeah. Come on, Seattle. Our new show.

It's going to be fucking a noise. Oh, it's great. Thank you so much to everybody out in Denver who came and watched us. Y'all were fantastic. Sold out show. Laughing their fucking asses off. It was great. We're going to have a good time. Yeah, so come out and see us in Seattle. Come out and see us in Washington, D.C. Come see us here in Los Angeles and Brooklyn. And for all y'all out in Europe, we're going to be doing a few shows out there. We're going to be doing two in London and one in Reykjavik.

And also Australia. We're going to be in Australia doing six days in Australia in August. Can't wait to come out. We're coming. We are coming. It's happening. We are coming. The tickets are bought. I'm actually training every day. He is. I'm actually training my body to fucking heal itself so I can make sure to fucking make it to all of these fucking shows this year. It's an uphill battle.

We're doing it. It was very much an uphill battle, but I'm fucking doing my best. I'm doing training. I'm going to physical therapy to make sure we fucking make it. It's going to be awesome. We got one in the can and you seemed healthy as fuck. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, you did, didn't he? Well, maybe it was thanks to the power.

Yeah. Christ. Well, we'll see how he does in the power of aliens this weekend at Contact in the Desert. Ooh, Contact in the Desert, if you are in town and you want to come see some wild-ass shit, this shit's going to get for real at Contact in the Desert. Come and see. We've got a panel on Saturday. We've got a live podcast with Dave Foley of Kids in the Hall on Sunday. Yeah. We're only talking UFOs. Yeah. Not a single bit of comedy history. I will corner him later. Yes. Yes.

Come and check it out. And hail Satan. And hail Gein. Hail Annabelle. You know, you can leave her alone. She is bad in a way. What are you talking about? You're going to talk shit on Annabelle? It's the end of the episode. Right now? It's the end of the episode. Hail Jessica Chastain. Yes. Yes. Answer my calls. Let me on the elevator.

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