Episode 568: Herb Baumeister Part I - The Bone Twins
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Did you know that you can watch Last Podcast on the Left and Side Stories on our Patreon right now? Yes, that's patreon.com slash lastpodcastsontheleft. But over on TikTok, you can see the hottest, tightest, funniest clips from the show right there. It's TikTok. TikTok. It's at LP on the left. It's the same as our Instagram. You already follow the Instagram. Why don't you go follow TikTok? But it's on TikTok. Yeah, because...

believe it. Yep. So just go check it out. Watch it. Go send our podcast to China. I love TikTok the crocodile. It's my favorite TikTok. It's the only one he knows. There's no place to escape to. This is the last podcast. On the left. That's when the cannibalism started. What was that? Oh, Herbie. Oh, Herbie, why'd you do it?

Or Herbie. Or, you know, I've been meaning to have a long talk with you, Herbie. I'm hearing the men scream. And I just know I can't sleep. Okay?

Okay? If you're going to murder these men, Herbie. Herbie. If you're going to be murdering these men, I honestly, can you keep it in town? Can't you take it downtown? You used to do it by the highway. Now I'm just, it's all day long with the gagging and the choking and the dying and the coming. And I need it to stop there, Herbie. Okay?

Welcome to the last podcast on the left, ladies and gentlemen. Oh, Herbie. My name is Marcus Parks. I'm here with Henry Zebrowski. No, it's me. It's Julie Baumeister. Hi. That's your Indiana accent? Oh, Herbie's been bad. Oh.

Oh, no. He tried to get to the Jackson 5, but they don't go down to the gay bars. And, of course, Ed Larson. Hello. How is everybody? And today, we're going to be returning to heavy hitter territory with Herb Baumeister. Oh, yeah. What a charmer.

You know, it's weird. Unfortunately, I think he might have been. Well, no. I want to ask this question. We'll get to it. But I want to ask this question to our audience. Now, Herb Baumeister is...

A character. He is. Herb Baumeister was a serial killer from Indianapolis who murdered up to 35 gay men over a period of about 15 years. We do not, however, know a lot of specifics when it comes to Herb's killings because Herb was never actually convicted for the murders.

Rather, Herb put a gun to his head in the Canadian wilderness after the cops found human remains on his property. So while he's technically a suspected serial killer, it's a near impossibility that he didn't murder all those men whose bones were found scattered across his 18 acres of land. They were 60 feet from his house, half of them. So he definitely did it. But, you know, we'll see what God says. Could have been an elaborate prank.

I keep saying this. I keep saying this. You never know. You know, those bone twins, you never know what they're up to. But Herb Baumeister, what a relief to not be talking about David Icke anymore. That now we're talking about Herb Baumeister and there's almost a smile. Like I'm almost smiling. Well, this is familiar territory. This is true crime. This is bread and butter stuff. He's somehow more likable.

He really is. Herb Baumeister. At least he knows what he likes. Yes, he's clear. Responsible for less pain and destruction than David Icke. But Herb Baumeister is a great example of when we cover serial killers. A lot of what we know from the serial killers is from the mouth of the serial killers themselves. The last surviving witness, as they often call it. Yes.

We see a phenomenon a lot of times in true crime of serial killers that love to talk and want everybody to know everything that they've done and quite often exaggerate. Henry Lee Lucas, for example.

Probably Ted Bundy, but also was an extremely dangerous human being. But he definitely exaggerated those people who talk, right? There's the loquacious type. But then there's this guy who is just like, reminds me of Samuel Little, reminds me of these other characters, like where he probably killed more than what was found. Mm-hmm. Than not. Yeah.

Like, he did not, he specifically was a hidden predator. No, I mean, there was no exaggeration. He never mentioned it to any living soul. Yeah, because if he did, it would be bad. Well, it's also almost positive that Herb Baumeister had two phases as a serial killer. While the majority of his murders occurred on the property that he shared with his wife and three children, Herb is highly, highly...

highly suspected of also being the I-70 strangler. Which is different than the I-70 killer. Yeah. In that series of murders, 11 men were found dumped in rivers, streams, and ditches in the rural countrysides along Interstate 70 throughout the 1980s. It's thought that Herb was the perpetrator because he spent a lot of time driving on I-70 and those killings abruptly stopped when Herbie bought his property in 1991. Oh, Herbie's that life.

His whole thing. That's just where his favorite steak and shake was on the highway. That's what he likes. He likes to drive. Because he told me, he said, oh, Julie, you know what I love to do? Cruising. And I was like, oh, me too. Why can't I go? He's listing his rest areas from favorite to least favorite. And I was like, why can't I go? What's so glorious about these holes?

Now, when it comes to Herb Baumeister's personality and modus operandi, I describe him as kind of John Wayne Gacy by way of John Waters. Yikes. See, in my opinion, Gacy is a little too on the nose for a John Waters character. Yeah, I mean, Serial Mom is closest to John Wayne Gacy, maybe, but not really. Hey, this is the cocksucker resident. Yeah.

I love the serial mom so fucking much. The serial mom's great, but she didn't have an act. Gacy had an act. Gacy had an act. But to that point, Waters himself said that Gacy was the worst, quote, the worst dressed mass murderer we've ever had. Ooh, shade. Yeah, yeah. Bad, bad taste. Not good, bad taste. And Waters at one point actually used a John Wayne Gacy painting as a deterrent, hanging one in a guest bedroom to keep certain people from staying over at his house for too long. That's awesome. That's classic Waters.

Baumeister, however, was a closeted owner of a chain of shitty thrift stores, a hoarder who kept several mannequins surrounding his indoor pool. His audience. And he filled his house with weird tchotchkes like gigantic mascara tubes and styrofoam horse heads, as well as used toilet paper. And that doesn't even get into the raccoon infestation. Those raccoons were gentrifying that home. Yeah.

And I don't know if you can really call used toilet paper, like, you know, a keepsake. You know, this is one of those stories where you find out, you know, like, one man's trash is another man's treasure. State of mind, bro. You view shit as, like, a thing that's wasted. It's weird. No, I love shit. But that's the trauma that was created by Big Toilet. Yeah, Rob. Looking at you, who's a former plumber. Because they made shit.

Shit, be dirty. But shit. So you got to use their toilets to get rid of it. That's what they're saying, right? That they control where all the shit goes. Where if I keep shit in my house, it's like, hey, I made it. Don't try to take things I made from my hands. What is this, communist Russia? You know what people don't know is that you can actually take your own shit, make it into bricks, and build your house out of it. That's what they did in Peru.

Peru. I think. Yeah, these buckets don't fill themselves. Baumeister even got fired from the DMV for pissing on his boss's desk. And they do that at Christmas. And this was all while he was murdering several people a year and burning their bodies in his backyard before crushing up the

and scattering them across the yard. If all that doesn't save filthiest person alive, I don't fucking know what does. Yeah, he's pretty gross. Now, one of the things that fascinates me about true crime is why some serial killers are remembered and others are forgotten. And I think John Wayne Gacy and Herb Baumeister are great examples of that contrast. They really are. It's really like Elvis and Orion. Yeah.

Both murdered gay men in large numbers, almost the exact same body count, in fact. And both, with some exceptions, kept the remains of their strangled victims on their own property. Baumeister, according to one of his surviving victims, even set up his strangulations by asking the victim if he wanted to see a neat trick, just like Gacy. Exactly like Gacy. And they're like 500 miles away or less from each other. Yeah, Des Plaines, Illinois. Yeah, Illinois and Indiana. Yeah. Like, kill me.

people around the same time, right? I literally have chills going up my spine because we're also going to talk about another serial killer that was also operating at the same exact time during this time period in the exact part of the United States that this was all fucking happening. Well, Batmaster picked up where Gacy left off. Because he's later on. He's 90s. More like late 80s, 90s. Actually, he started in 81.

Oh, wow. Yeah, Bowmeister started in 81. Like the, what was it, the guy that did Buster Poindexter. David Johansson? Yeah, David Johansson started Buster Poindexter in 1981, and I'm pretty certain he might also be a serial killer as well. That might be slander, and I might get sued by the Buster Poindexter family. We're going to send

David Johansson is not a serial killer. Do you know that for sure? Well, we'll fucking find out when we do our New York Dolls series of No Dogs in Space coming later this summer. Hey, if you become a serial killer, then that becomes last podcast, buddy. Okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't even fucking take material from us, buddy. We'll bring you on.

I've always wanted to get in between him and his wife. No, as far as why Gacy is remembered, there's obviously the clown angle, which is huge. It's packaging, marketing, in that way. But Gacy was also a blue-collar, working-class Joe, a successful business owner and politician who'd once been photographed with the First Lady. And you just saw, did you just see this picture for the first time recently with Gacy and the First Lady? I haven't. Who is it? Which lady? Rosalind Carter. Really? That fucking bitch.

bitch. She was hot. She met Jim Jones and John Wayne Gacy in the same year. Wait a second. You just said Rosalind Carter was hot like we were talking about Elle McPherson. Have you not seen younger pictures of her? She was hot.

I just shut down the podcast. Wow. She's fine. She's pretty cute. She's pretty cute. She's very cute. I wouldn't be like, my first thought wouldn't be like, God, jeez. I mean, 60 years ago, I'm talking about. Yeah, but there was, we had, you know, the big breasts. We had other sexy people 60 years ago. Barbara Bush? Yeah. Yeah.

Barbara Bush is not attractive. Yeah. No, what are you talking about, man? It's in her last name. All right. John Wayne Gacy. So hot. You want to talk about breasts.

Well, Gacy was a guy anyone might know. He's a local character who threw good parties. And finally, Gacy's last victim, the one that got him caught, was not a transient gay youth or a kid born from poverty like his previous victims. Gacy killed a popular local boy, Robert Peist, which kicked off an immediate search that led police directly to Gacy and the bodies buried underneath his house. John Wayne Gacy is on the obviously...

the very dark Mount Rushmore of serial killers because of this fact. I think that because he is, has these quote unquote X factors about him. He has the clown angle mixed with the politician angle, mixed with the, mixed with the, everybody loves this guy angle. Like he was on television. He was a,

business owner. And then the idea of living this extreme second life was something that blew everybody's minds because it's like in America, we really do believe that appearances tell you everything because we worship appearances in this country. But

Not this type of ostentatiousness does not a good serial killer make all the time. Even though John Wayne Gacy is extremely unique in being a super predator and have this level of attention where somebody like her Baumeister is the actual boogeyman that works.

ramble through the highways and byways of America that kill anonymously and only kill for their own self-satisfaction. They don't really care. I think because someone like John Wayne Gacy on some way in someone's back of his head knows that when I get caught, I'm going to be...

like a celebrity. Oh, he's got the ego. Yes. He's got the ego. He wants to be that guy. Yes, he wants to be it. Graham Marshall of the Polish Day Parade. But then Jeffrey Dahmer is an example of somebody like Herb Baumeister that he did have to get fucking drunk to do it. Like Jeffrey Dahmer had to get drunk to do it. I don't think Baumeister had to get drunk to do it. I think Baumeister really liked doing it. He was processed, not product. Yes, he was. But then he, we'll get to it.

I think he enjoyed the product part. We'll get into it. His favorite television show was watching bodies rot in a fucking pyramid while he drank Miller's. So I don't know. Maybe he only drank when he was watching them rot. Baumeister was more of a loner. He was a failed businessman with a long-suffering wife and no friends to speak of. He was a weirdo and a dick.

unpopular, kind of gross, and smart enough to stay in a marginalized victim pool, gay men. And this was during a time when investigating the murders of gay men was considered a little icky. Yeah, they always thought they'd get cum on their badge. Especially in places like Indianapolis. Oh, Midwest! My God. I mean, Milwaukee, Indianapolis. The Indianapolis police were just absolutely fucking awful in this. Let's be frank, it was the time period. Because we saw the same thing when we covered Randy Kraft's

We saw this. It was happening in SoCal, too. It was happening in the liberal areas of the country, too. There was plenty of it was within. It was basically we're just talking about within police institutions, like going after these crimes made them feel icky. So they didn't want to deal with it. And they just assume that all gay dudes, they have sex, punch and choke each other. And a lot of times it's just jerking each other off while watching the Golden Girls.

From what I've seen. Or like young men that are having problems at practice. At practice? Yeah, for whatever sport they're doing. It's always like they're at like... You've been watching documentaries? No, not those, but I've seen clips from them where it's like you see them and it's always some guy going like, hey, Brown, my shoes are too tight. And him

I'm going like, oh, Craig, I see your pants fell down, man. And he's just like, oh, no. What's going to happen now, bro? And then he just starts crying.

getting at them. Sounds pretty similar to the heterosexual documentaries. I feel like sometimes they, I feel like they have more plots sometimes. The gay ones? No. The straight ones. Oh yeah. I'm stuck in the laundry machine. There's a lot of fucking plot to that. There's so much plot. Well basically, you know what that's all about? The problem in America that we can't fix our fucking machines. Right? That's what this is about. Oh, you're talking about planned obsolescence? That's what that's all about.

It's all about Big Mayfair. Well, Baumeister also offed himself before he was arrested. And even though there was the same sort of mass investigation of his property like Gacy's, you didn't have the dramatic footage of men carrying body bags filled with goopy remains like you did at Gacy's house in Des Plaines, Illinois.

But because Baumeister didn't reach star status, so to speak, only one somewhat reliable true crime paperback was written covering his life and crimes. That's our main source today, Where the Bodies Are Buried by Fanny Weinstein and Melinda Wilson. I did read the somewhat bitchily titled, You Don't Know Who I Am. Ha ha ha!

That was also about Herb Baumeister, but it's one of those Amazon books where it's just all filled with fake shit. Oh, yeah. You can't trust that shit. Yeah, it's like the Jack Rosewood books that are just total fucking horseshit. But for our other source, which we'll get into next episode, we've got something that I've never seen in a serial killer story. Yeah, that's what makes this one fucking good. But before we get into all that, let's tell the story of Herb Baumeister himself, starting with his childhood in Indianapolis. Yeah.

So Herbert Richard Baumeister was born to a comfortable middle-class life in 1947 Indianapolis as the eldest of four children, the son of a successful anesthesiologist and a housewife. Love it already! I wish I could be in there! Now when Herb was a small boy, he wasn't exactly abnormal. More accurately, Herbie was perfect.

just a fucking nerd. Super nerd, yeah. For example, he and a friend formed what they called the Weather Club, where they'd pick a random spot on the globe and quote, report on the weather there. Kirby would then moderate the discussion that followed. It's a bit exacting, but I knew a lot of nerds that kind of had this sort of, you know, like, you know, I had a kid growing up that was super obsessed with the MTA. Yeah. Right, so he was super into all the buses and the trains. I think now they call that something different. Yeah.

And then he, but they also have had other things where we go, like I had the chess club. That was kind of nerdy. No, the chess, yeah, I mean, chess club is fine. But it was horny. Like, that's the thing about the weather club is I wonder whether or not, like, yeah, they're all talking about clouds. Did you say the chess club is horny? Yeah. Really? For your, you were in the chess club? Yeah, buddy. And you got laid? I got, I had girlfriends. You had girlfriends? But in, with the, did you meet them through the chess club? No. So what is your, what are you basing the chess club being horny on? Nerds are horny. He would go home and jerk off. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, nerds are super horny. Yeah, everyone's super horny. No, not all people. Some people aren't. At 16, everyone's horny. Sometimes they're more angry. Once Herbie reached adolescence, his behavior morphed into something more antisocial. He had a hard time fitting in with others, not because he was a nerd, but because he started saying and doing odd shit. He was jacked from the batter.

Mm-hmm. You know, like, he was one of those guys that was, like, never quite, he never fit into any social rhythm at all. Yeah. What'd he do? His childhood friend Bill said that Herbie would ask people uncomfortable, unprompted questions. Like, hey, what do you think it'd be like to drink human urine? Honestly, I think it'd be difficult to catch, and I think a lot of it is probably, I don't like yellow drinks. Yeah.

I feel like that's not that crazy of a question. But if you ask it again and again to a lot of people... Yeah, no, you ask it once or twice. Hey, what do you think about human urine? You think it tastes like lemons? It's the frequency. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Can I have some of that urine, please? Also, I mentioned then if you become urine boy. You know how it is in high school. If you do one thing that's an outlier, then you become that thing, and then you're locked into that. Unless you show up at the talent show...

Do that lip sync that changes your entire fucking career around inside of the fucking school. Retrofit it. That's nice. Did you do the lip sync? No, I was already way more popular. I had already been in it. I was running the talent show. And then I was the gatekeeper. Yeah. And I had a little office. People come in there. You had an office in high school? They'd come in with a little back area. And then first of all, I'd be like, do you tap? And they go like, yeah. And I was like, do you tap naked? Yeah.

Wow. Learn how to be a producer. On another occasion, Herbie found a dead crow, hid it in his jacket, brought it to school, and left it on a teacher's desk. It's rumored, but not proven, that after the crow incident and after Herbie got obsessed with the idea of drinking piss, that his father had him committed to a mental hospital. Kids do that kind of stuff. He just needs an adjustment. Well, it's rumored. We don't know that for sure. I knew this one kid. He showed up to school covered in blood one day.

And they were like, what happened? He's like, oh, I was whittling a stick and a raccoon jumped at me. And then I stabbed it and it bled all over me. We're like, you killed everyone.

Yeah, you stabbed a raccoon to death. Yeah, that's a long road to hoe to get to killing a raccoon. But he lived on a farm. He was like the only person in Boca Raton that lived on a farm. Okay. Yeah, but still, killing a raccoon is pretty rough. On the way to school, it's not felling a cow to eat. It's not going through the chickens for food. You chased down a raccoon and stabbed it to death. Also, put on your gym shorts for the day or something.

She didn't change. But people said that Herbie thought that it was like funny. Yeah. Like he was a guy that very similar to Jeffrey Dahmer. That was the kook. So people thought he was funny in a way. But most of the time people said that he was invisible. Yeah.

I mean, Herbie was supposedly diagnosed with schizophrenia in the mental hospital. But again, this claim is from fairly dubious sources that only reference each other for proof that Baumeister was actually committed as a teenager. Yeah, nothing's on the books saying that he has schizophrenia. What we do know, however, was that Herbie's father was a strict disciplinarian who would verbally and physically abuse his son. It's the only time he's not wrong. Yeah.

But we can't say that. Because that's the thing. He created him. Yeah, that's the thing. That's the shit that leads to the killing. I don't know, man. Made Jermaine Jackson. Bring him back up, man. Super talented. Why are you so obsessed with the Jackson family getting beat into talent? Because we're in Indiana. Yeah.

This is like the 10th time you've brought up, like, oh yeah, Michael Jackson. Good thing he got hit. Well, that's what I'm saying. Thank God. I wish that somebody had cared about me so much. To beat you? But your mother did beat you. A couple times. Not hard enough. I don't know.

She couldn't finish the fucking job. Well, because he was abused, Herbie shut down emotionally at a young age and stopped reacting altogether when his father punished him. He also withdrew socially, choosing to go home straight after school to watch TV and eat peanut butter sandwiches and carrots instead of playing with friends or siblings. In fact, besides the friend who remembered all the piss talk, nobody else remembered Herb Baumeister at all. Yeah.

You gotta make a moment for yourself. Sure. But even though Herb's relationship with his father wasn't the best, what with the physical abuse and the mental institutions and such, Herb still wanted to emulate his father's career. So he attended Indiana University in 1965, where he majored in a very serial killer specialization, anatomy. Yeah. And he...

This is his attempt when he was going up to being like, we see this, I think, a lot with serial killers, where he was like, I'm going to give being normal a shot. Yeah.

My father does this. He obviously created, his DNA created me, right? And I kind of feel weird, but maybe this is where I can go and not feel weird. I can go into this, because in anatomy, you know, I'm like a surgeon. Then you get to cut up bodies and play with fucking disposable tits and like cut off people's butts and stuff and play with their organs and stuff. Is that what surgeons do? Yeah. Guys, I have surgeons in my family. They never bring that up. They all, but they get paid to do it.

You get paid to go through someone's intestines and go, oh, spaghetti. Oh, spaghetti. No, sorry. I got to go do a butt-ectomy. I got to go cut off a butt this afternoon. But that is a completely responsible way to exercise these feelings. I'll have to ask my brother-in-law.

Herb, however, still had no idea how to fit in. But instead of being antisocial, he went too far in the other direction, accommodating people to the point where it was uncomfortable while putting on such a show of caring for others that it became suspicious. He did it because he thought people were watching and he thought that people thought that this is what normal people do.

And it's the Midwest. That's got a lot to do with it as well. How many times have you been to Indiana? A couple times. It's not a friendly place. It's not a friendly place at all. Well, they got lots of sausage. Just remember that one time when you had collapsed before the show and we couldn't do that live show in Indiana and we went to that bar in Indianapolis and then we met the COVID nurse that was like,

super racist saying a bunch of weird stuff and then saying about how COVID didn't exist. But she had a wedding ring on. She was talking about her husband and then she started making out with another man. And the man and him, he was groping her and stuff and people were taking pictures and stuff and she was laughing. I think they went and had sex in the bathroom. Shout out to our first responders. Laughter

Well, Herb was also a creature of contradictions. He insisted on being meticulously dressed at all times, despite the fact that it was the mid to late 60s when being a square wasn't in style. But he also drove around in a hearse outfitted with a siren, which combined with his style cut an unsettling figure. So he liked the Ghostbusters. Yeah. He just was. And he's an Addams Family cousin.

Yes, that's a great way of putting it. He's one of those guys who shows up because he's just like, hi, everybody. Hey, you know, because he's immediately strange out the box and he wants to stand out, but he doesn't quite know how to do it. Well, if he wanted to stand out, he should have drank the piss. Yeah. Exactly. I think he did. I think it's safe to say he did. You don't ask. You're like, this is what piss tastes like. And I'll tell you what.

It tastes like piss. Maybe we were putting the wrong emphasis on the wrong word. Maybe it should have been like, what do you think piss tastes like? Because I think... I know. Because I know. But...

The interest in cars was how Herb first bonded with his soon-to-be wife, the long-suffering Julie Baumeister. I love a siren on a hearse. Because then all the bodies get to the cemeteries quicker. They go to sleep.

How much faster? Well, she put it, she liked her because they both like cars and they were both young Republicans. And that is like such an example of being a contrary fuck during the coolest time period to be in America. Like that was like an awesome time. It was really stressful. Yes, but to be in the counterculture, that sounded like a fucking blast. And you was like, you had total impunity to go be a part of the most amazing moment ever.

in American youth culture. That's why all of the fucking nursing homes, all the baby boomers, all the nurses say you gotta wear gloves because they all have hepatitis. Yeah, and they fucked everything up! Well, Julie also liked that Herb was strange. And during college, she thought that he was fun and creative because he stapled hubcaps to his walls instead of putting up posters like the other kids, which shows you how low the bar for fun and creative was for the future Mrs. Baumeister. He was simply a hubcap.

ball of laughs. You know, sometimes he'd just say, he'd say the funniest things like his favorite color was green. And I was like, oh, Herbie, they broke the mold when they made you. He was a decorator like Wally was a decorator. Yeah. Actually, he did, yeah. Very similar to Wally. He was a decorator like Jeffrey McDonald was a decorator. Yeah.

But when they got married in 1971, Julie discovered that strange isn't always a good thing. For example, on their wedding night, when young lovers are supposed to be deep in the throes of passion, Herbie chose to instead read a magazine. Oh, you know how it is. He likes to get his stretches in, and then we did a couple of rounds of making makeups on each other. And then he read his favorite magazine, which is called Wedding Night Magazine. Ha ha ha!

And I don't need all the sweat. No, no, no. They didn't. I mean, it's the modern day equivalent of getting married and then scrolling through your phone all night. Yeah. They were, Julie is a, if obtuse was a person. Yeah. Because I don't know whether or not, we'll get to the idea of whether or not she knew or what she knew and all that kind of stuff. What she wanted to know, I think, is the best way to put it. She had that incredible ability that only moms seem to be able to achieve. Yeah.

of recreating history in a Stalin-like fashion where they can just delete

Whole things that happen. All moms do this, apparently. Deleting eras. Eras. And ways they behave and creating entire scenarios where they're the hero and everyone around them is an incompetent villain. Yeah, and I don't know why. I don't know why moms have that ability. And fathers just go away inside. You know, fathers just retreat to the inside. Anytime you call a mom a liar, they're like, I'm a storyteller. Well, that's a Zabrowski trick.

Well, Julie actually claimed that over the 25 years they were married, they had sex half a dozen times. She actually counted six times. She never actually saw her naked because those half a dozen times were in a pitch black room and he'd always sleep in full body pajamas. What I kind of felt was fun about it was that I was like, oh, this is how Stevie Wonder has sex. Now, is she counting just the vagina?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He didn't even put it all the way in. He just kind of put what we call the seamen half in. And just so I could get it up in my boots. Yeah. And that's the thing is that he actually had, I mean, he was like three for six. He had three kids with her. Yeah, dude. Wow. Well, he saved his cum. Yeah. No, I don't think he did. He saved his baby cum.

So you think that the cum that he was having with the gay men was different from the cum that he gave? You think that's different? You think a man can consciously choose to have different types of cum that he shoots? I think the unconscious is something that we don't understand. And I think that if you're having sex, maybe it's because if the swimmers know there ain't no egg, maybe the swimmers... They take the night off? Well, maybe that's where the lazy ones go.

Maybe. Interesting theory. When was the last... SciStoriesLPOTL at gmail.com. When was the last time you shot baby cum? Oh, God knows. I actually think that mine are all retired. I think that they quit. Oh, you got weed cum. Oh, yeah. I slow it down. Discover the variety of formulas Victor Pet Food offers to fuel the unique needs of active dogs. Whether you're looking to promote sustained energy for puppies...

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Now, while the Baumeisters outwardly appeared to be a stereotypical heterosexual white American couple complete with ostentatious National Lampoon-style Christmas displays every year, things were much darker behind closed doors. Much darker. As Julie put it, her world was controlled by her. She had no friends, so she didn't know that almost never having sex with your husband was in any way abnormal. Oh, yeah, he told me he only has six cums. He has six cums in his life.

Inside of his balls. Julie also had no family and therefore nowhere to go, especially after they had kids. So Herb controlled his wife using childish mind games. In one case, shortly after they got married, Herb and Julie got into a fight. So Herb moved into a room upstairs and didn't speak to his wife for a year. There was one time for Christmas that Herbie, he said, oh, let's role play.

And I was like, oh, you know, I'm not an actress. I didn't go to drama school. You know, I'm shy, you know. But then he did this thing for Christmas. I dressed up as Mrs. Claus. He dressed up as Santa Claus. And I was like, oh, we're going to have, you know, maybe a kiss. Maybe we'll kiss.

You know, and then that night, I go to sleep and I wake up, and downstairs, he's choking this man dressed as a reindeer. I was like, Kirby, why Christmas time? What happened to all the sugar plums? Oh, and then, honestly, because whatever cum he was covered in, that man, that reindeer, I guess he couldn't get pregnant either. Must have been on his period. Yeah.

But continuing that behavior, Herb also held grudges, which would develop easily and last forever, hinting at more of a borderline personality than schizophrenic. Family members would be cut off at the smallest slight, and he once didn't speak to his mother for four years simply because she said something he didn't like.

Good for her. Yeah, good for her. Way to go. Good job. Four years without this shithead. This demeanor, of course, made Herb perfect for his first career track. Medical school was definitely not in the cards for Herb. No. So his father used his connections to get him a job at the Indiana Bureau of Motor Vehicles as the director of financial operations. And you wonder why they have a bad reputation.

Yeah. It's like guys like Herb Baumeister in charge. Like you wonder like the fucking road. I've said it before. The roads of Indiana almost killed me. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's it's there's a lot of these. Think about like Dennis Rader. Right.

Worked as a dog catcher. Yeah. And he worked for an HOA. God, he killed dogs for a living. That is what he did for a living. You look at... Even John Wayne Gacy is a contractor. Talk about one of the most mysterious careers that exists. Because a contractor is the closest thing humans have to knowing ghosts. Because of the way they disappear. They just go away. Yeah. You know? And so...

God, it's all these people. Yeah. I mean, not to besmirch our civil service workers out there. I know we got a lot of good male people. But if you're at the DMV, take the headphones out and help some people. We love the DMV. We definitely don't need any more problems at the DMV. I'm getting my driver's license soon. Dude, congratulations. He's never had it. I had it, but I got rid of it. Well, they got rid of it for you. They took it from me.

Can you vote? Oh, yeah. Oh, nice. Yeah, I vote like three, four times an election. Now, the reviews Herb's co-workers gave of his behavior were mixed because at this point he was still trying to fit in the society, but he was slipping.

One co-worker said that he was an excellent people-oriented boss, while another said Herb gave up one of his vacation days to drive her 140 miles to a bank when she was going through a rough divorce. At the same time, though, Herbie's mental state was precarious to say the least.

He would rant and rave about odd shit for no real reason, then would spend hours crying alone in his house. At one point, he got into a car accident that triggered a full mental breakdown and got him a stay in a mental health work. Possibly a second. I have a theory where he... So during this time period, he was starting to apparently...

He went through this... He always would have problems spending money. You would just spend money extravagantly, and we'll get more to it. But he was sort of dressing really nice. That was his first foray into, I'm normal. Guys, I'm normal. I'm a people-oriented boss. I'm the fun boss. And so for a while, they were doing stuff where he...

He was one of those tit-for-tat guys that was like, look at all these nice things I did. I'm not a crazy person. I'm not a bad person. Even though he would rant and rave about nonsensical things. Unfortunately, a lot of this does sound like my style as a boss. But I do show up every day. And I've never done anything...

No. To and toward? No. Not yet. Imagine that long car ride, and he's just like, do you mind if I pee in this bottle? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I gotta pee. I'm like, ooh, man, I am thirsty. Do you need to pee? Do you need to pee? What does your urine taste like? But my theory is that I think what happened was that

He was doing a proto practice run before he started killing where something happened in this, where he picked up a hitchhiker.

And something happened. This wasn't a hitchhiker. This was somebody that worked at the BMV with him. No, I'm talking about the full mental breakdown after the car accident. I have a feeling that the father, his father, helped cover something up with Herbie where something happened that was like, oh, no, I've done something really bad.

And I've either like, I'm going to get coughed for it or someone's going to say something. I'm going to pick up a young hitchhiker. I'm going to do that thing where it's ass grass or with a gas, whatever. Right. We're going to talk about this. I'm going to maybe try to, cause he's already starting to dabble in the gay bar scene a little bit. And so it's like, maybe now like he's, maybe we have some kind of sexual encounter. Maybe I choke a kid. Maybe I'm choking somebody and I'm doing something that will then. And then I think that he reached a breaking point and told or said something. Yeah. Yeah.

And,

And then they put him into a mental asylum and then it didn't help. Yeah. Certainly not a good advertisement for that mental asylum. Well, that's why Reagan closed him. He came out worse. Yeah. Like he came out even more odd. I mean, he exhibited a need for exactness that bordered on neurotic. Once when he was picking out a Christmas tree with his wife, he insisted that it had to be exactly 40 feet tall, which is town square size. And I said, oh, you know, the mayor doesn't even have a tree that big, but you know,

Yeah, you can't get him out and not...

Getting something large inside of him. Where are you going to put that tree? Bend over, I'll show you. This tree was either a part of Herb's ostentatious outdoor display that year, or he was giving his wife an impossible task that he could use to berate her when the quest failed. You know, and I have a bit of a theory as well that just kind of hit me about his stay in the mental asylum. I think maybe he was trying...

To push down his urges to kill. Oh, sure. I think he was trying to push them down and it became too much. Yeah. And then when he got out, he said, fuck it. And then he just went for it. Because there's no way he wasn't already playing with autoerotic asphyxiation. Yeah. Like, he was definitely playing with it because that's how it all begins with sexual curiosity. And I guess there's really nothing wrong with...

Autoerotic asphyxiation? Absolutely not. I mean, it's highly dangerous and I wouldn't recommend it to anybody. If you do it regularly, I'd say stop. But you know what you need? A spotter. Yeah, you always need a spotter. Can't there just be a sex spotter? Although it did result in one of the funniest, I mean, world's greatest dad.

Oh, yeah. Slowly but surely, though, Herb's behavior turned from helpful to abrasive at work. He would brag about how his father was a successful doctor and how much his outfits cost, making sure to tell anybody who accidentally stepped on his shoes, hey, buddy, those are $300 shoes. You watch it. Those shoes are worth more than your life. I just went down to another, you know, I listened to Howard Stern all the time, and there's a guy that was a whack packer named Elegant Elliot Offen, and he's

He was like this, where he would come in and do the being like, look at me. Look at me. Look at my rings. $240,000 with the jewelry on my body. And I could just see Herb Baumeister coming in, just being like, take a look at the shoes. Take a look at the fucking pants. His pants are made out of pure heel leather. And people still didn't fucking remember him. Yeah.

He also had an extremely shallow intellect and was unable to hold an in-depth conversation about anything. People actually started to wonder how he was able to keep his job because he would regularly disappear from work at random hours and just wouldn't come back.

Herb pushed the envelope even further when he pissed on his boss's desk. He loves the pee-pee. Loves pee-pee. Loves pee-pee. But that's the weird thing is that after this, the pee-pee stops. Well, as far as we know. Okay, he pissed on his boss's desk. He got away with that. He got away with that. Think about this. Yeah.

Let him continue to work. It's the DMV. You can't find good people. He showed up every day. He didn't show up every day. He left all the time. If you went to the Indiana Board of fucking Motor Vehicles during this time period and asked for his superior, that's the man you'd reach. The guy who's entirely fine being like, you know, people piss sometimes. Like, we don't like it here, dude. Shut him down.

Well, it was the second pissed job that got him fired. He pissed on a letter to the governor of Indiana. And this was my legacy. That I understand, by the way. Yeah, yeah. Piss on the letter to the governor of Indiana, yeah. For that, he was finally fired and started jumping from job to job. When he was between jobs, he'd pick up on the housework, sometimes, quote unquote, cooking a specialty dish he called pizza crackers. I thought you were going to say people.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. He loved his urine smoothies. Pizza crackers were saltines with a dollop of tomato sauce topped with a slice of hot dog or bologna, which for some reason just, it sounds like a dish someone from Indianapolis would come up with. It's actually the state dish.

When the governor first served pizza crackers to the president of Iran, that was one of the most special days in Indiana history. And I was just a little girl seeing it on the news. And it was like the moon landing.

Now, even while Herb was working at the BMV, he was also becoming an accomplished collector of junk. Or as my friends Chris and Joe put it on Show and Sell, their YouTube channel about thrifting and flipping, Herb was quite the trash dragon. They whored.

Like smoke. Yeah, like smoke. Trash dragon. Herb would troll yard sales, estate sales, thrift stores, and dumpsters for clothes, car parts, and light fixtures, as well as novelty items like oversized footballs, giant maple leaves, used political bumper stickers, anything that might have a smidgen of value. A used bumper sticker? Yeah. His wife said that he once fished a used vote for Nixon bumper sticker out of the trash. Anything with Nixon on it.

That's what my Herbie loves. Yeah, they were both staunch Republicans. But along with his so-called treasures, Herb exhibited other extreme hoarding behaviors, like saving used toilet paper and other disgusting bits of human detritus. About the only whimsical thing Herb Baumeister ever did, which is still kind of sort of sinister, was demand that his home always have a fully decorated Christmas tree year-round. I love Christmas!

It's amazing. Everything's in shiny papers. I love it. Boxes are not normal anymore. Boxes are not fun. And in my Ohio family, they keep the Christmas tree up too long and then they just decorate it for Valentine's Day and then Easter. It's a sign of depression. I heard about my surgery. Is there maybe like, what does this sound like to you? Getting into thrifting, getting into flipping.

Is it his own way of being like... Because he has no skills. He's not super smart. Epitome of mediocrity. Everything he touches turns to shit. What if when he goes and he goes thrifting, is there something along the lines of, oh, look, I can make something out of nothing? Of like, oh, look, look what I can do. I'm adding value to the world in that way, which is actually, I think, a lot of people's impulses of doing thrifting. Or is it just like...

Because hoarding's about control. Oh, it's about anxiety. Yeah. I think Herb Baumeister, you know, also, you know, he had his day in the middle. I think he had massive amounts of anxiety, and this was a way to control, again, like control things, and it just calmed him down. Some people just get that hit of dopamine from just buying something. I do that.

But, you know, when it gets to this point, though, it's like you're just buying little tiny tchotchke, like just bullshit things to fill your house up with. Or he would fish them out of dumpsters. I don't know. Maybe it gave him some sense of worth. I mean, it definitely stops me from buying more T-shirts. I have thousands of T-shirts. And one thing that always, like, once I want to buy another T-shirt, I just kill five or six dogs and I just feel better. So, like, I kind of get that. I get, like, where his anxiety had to go. Yeah, the steam release. Yeah.

Now, after bouncing around various low-skill jobs for years, Herb finally got a job at a thrift store, which is like an alcoholic working as a bartender. It's a fucking bad idea. But after a short period of time just working at a thrift store, Herb got the bright idea to open his own.

Herb got it into his head that he was going to open a chain of upscale thrift stores, something that he thought was a ticket to the American dream. Eventually, Herb got his wish in 1988 when he and his wife borrowed $35,000 from Herb's mother and opened their first Savalot.

thrift store on 46th Street in Indianapolis. Savalot. Savalot. Is it just that they left the E off? But that's what makes it cool. Save money on the sign day. Yeah. Which automatically, that's the thing. He wants the upscale store. I see Savalot. I know that's a cheap place. See, it could be funky. You know when they do that? Like, funky is different because funky means it's well curated. Yeah. But it sounds like he didn't do that. No. He was so in the closet that he opened two closets. Yeah.

Yes. He's just been like, you know, there's amazing things inside of this closet. Oh, wow, look at this coat. I could kill a man in this coat. Now, Herb and his wife did surprisingly well in their first year running the store together and made enough money to open a second store in 1990. They made not enough money to open the second store. They made it. I mean, they did it. It was a problem, obviously. But since Herb and Julie already didn't have the best marriage, owning and running two retail stores only made matters worse.

Little did Julie know, however, that Herb's private life was far darker than she could have ever imagined. Because for the previous decade, Herb Baumeister had been one of Indiana's most prolific serial killers. I mean, I'm fucking making the reveal here, but this entire time, he

He's been killing dudes. Oh, yeah. When he's opening the store. All of it. The entire time. He's been killing people this whole time. But, you know, he's not definitely the I-70 killer. He is. It's pretty close. I mean, it's very close. I-70 Strangler. Because the I-70 killer is somebody else. Yeah. See, it had been common knowledge in the Indianapolis gay community throughout the 80s that an increasing number of young gay men had either disappeared or turned up dead. Can I get a true crime sound bed after this when we put it in the editing? Sure.

And that's when he went down to the seedy underworld of gay sex dungeons. And they're just bars. Yeah, they're just bars. They're watching sports. The way they talk about it. Every true crime. There's no difference. They really play poker and watch it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Indianapolis. It's a pinball machine. Seedy gay underground. Yeah, yeah. They're just eating cheese curds. Yeah. And like hanging out.

Yeah, I remember I went to a bar in Indianapolis once and it was supposed to be like a goth night, but the kids that ran the goth night couldn't figure out how to get the PA system going. So we just sat there in silence for an hour while they just fucked around with it. What's more goth than that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The silence of the grave. The extreme incompetence?

In silence. Both. Well, in all, the bodies of 11 teenagers and adults were discovered naked or partially clothed near Interstate 70, all of whom have been strangled to death.

I guess that's the I-70 killer. That's the trucker, right? That's the trucker. Yeah. Or they think is the trucker. They think. Instead, most of the victims have met their killer in popular gay bars with great fucking names. You had the Vogue Theater. That's awesome. You had the Broad Ripple. I love, I'd go to the Broad Ripple. They even had a Brothers. What?

I think brothership, apparently... It's all over. Yeah. It's very common. My dad used to always make fun of every time we passed a brother. He's like, I'm not going there. You know? But you keep bringing it up, Dad. You know what I mean? Yeah. You keep bringing it up, and you have this weird sort of like, tinge, tense obsession with brothers. And every time we go by it, you say that you don't want to go in there. We're like, why would I assume you would go in there, Dad? That's a gay bar. You are, though, you keep mentioning it, though. Yeah. He would always...

Say the same thing about Choices, where Cunanan used to go. Interesting. The gay steakhouse club. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where it's being like, but you're obsessed with this, Dad. It seems like you're curious. It seems like you want to go in there. You want to check it out. Because it might be nice, because then he'd probably make up nice conversation with other men. Yeah. You don't always got to suck dick. Not always. My favorite thing my dad would do when we were driving around is every time we passed a strip club, he'd go, uh-oh.

And then you'd say the name of the strip club. Yeah. Uh-oh, Chit Chat Club. That's fun. My dad, my favorite thing that my dad used to do, quote unquote favorite thing, was that if someone was crossing the streets, he'd always go like, 90 points. Yeah. About killing them, yeah. Yeah, my dad had that joke as well. Childbearing, that's 180 points. He's a cop, right? Yeah. Not my father. Right.

Student grade. And where did it come from? Where'd that sense of humor come from? See? Well, starting with a sex worker named Michael Petri in 1980, Baumeister, if he was indeed the I-70 Strangler, killed at a clip of about one a year, but usually between August and October, but sometimes as early as May. It was always during the warm months. Is that, like, common? It's actually showing that amount of restraint isn't common.

for 10 years. Usually the guys, they go more often because you get less of a return on the dopamine each time. You get less of a return on the pleasure each time. So the cooling off period is shorter and shorter. But to kill one a year for 10 years is very uncommon. Or at least, that's the thing, it's uncommon amongst those who get caught. Yes. And then I think that the...

having that space in between allows enough time to go that people kind of forget. You could see that Herb Baumeister, just from already talking about all of this, is fighting every day, tooth and nail, to not kill and rape. He is literally like a moment away. He didn't want to do it. I think that he created, what we talk about with serial killers a lot, is they create...

circumstances in which then they can say it is now beyond my control. I had to kill. So they start slowly ramping up. It probably, that's why I think it started with just some activity with sex workers. Usually does. And I think a lot of it probably is, is that he got his, his steam released by doing extreme sex with sex workers that did not involve death that

But like he probably was still just getting violently choked out and choking out somebody else without killing them every once in a blue moon to blow off the steam. And then he would then go into a fugue state. He would become this shadow other person when he was in his second, when he was sexually engorged and he would choke and choke and choke and choke and then wake and be like, once he came as pants, he was like,

Oh, no. And had to deal with it. But didn't we, we would have had more stories then, right? No. No. Well, not unless you're, unless they went and, unless they were happy with it. There also, there's a consensual, there's some of it that's probably some form of consensual. And I imagine sometimes you're blackout drunk and don't remember what happened. Sometimes. And you also remember like this is the 80s, the 90s in Indiana. It's a secret. Indiana is a rabidly racist and homophobic place. I know. Yeah.

And it's not, you know, so these guys aren't going to be coming out and telling their stories. One guy did. We'll get to later. But, you know, most of the time what happens with guys like him, this happened with Gacy, is they're getting into it. You know, they're doing like, you know,

weirder and weirder and more violent, like, sexual shit, and then they accidentally kill someone for the first time. And then it's off. Yeah, and then after they accidentally kill someone, they recognize the feeling that they get when they do it, and they're like, I've never felt anything that good in my entire life. I want to do that all the time. But they also know that it's wrong. They know that if they keep doing it, they're going to get caught, and they're going to go to jail. So really, the...

tamping down the urge to not do it isn't because, like, oh, I don't want to do this. It's because I know if I do this too much, I'm going to get caught. Yeah, it's all I want to do. It's the opposite. It's like, remember when you first made your very first cheesesteak? It's like that. I mean, I never look back. And now I eat them in secret. Yep. Oh, my God. You're the herb baumeister of cheesesteaks.

It's the I-870 cheese steak skillet. Using ropes and other objects as strangulation aids, Baumeister would murder his victims and leave them in ditches or near streams or abandoned railroad tracks. Not exactly where people would quickly find them, but definitely in places where someone would eventually find them. So the two are similar because they are process killers and not product killers. Yeah.

Making things even more complicated was the fact that Herb Baumeister was not the only person murdering gay men in the region in the early 80s. Yeah, dude. They were all... It was bad there, man. Yeah. Between 1982 and 1984, a man named Larry Ehler tortured and murdered at least...

21 young men from Illinois and Indianapolis. That's between 82 and 84. It's two fucking years. That was a dangerous place in the world in time to be a twink, man. Yeah. From like the 70s to the 80s. I mean, yeah, like John Wayne Gacy, he has 32 or 33 that we know about. It's likely that it's far away.

Far more. 50 to 60. He traveled around. There's more accounts of him killing people in other periods. Yeah, there was a bunch of him going on work trips and killing people. They're pretty certain that he did. I think John Wayne Gacy could be like 70, 70, 80. Very much so. Yeah, because, I mean, Gary Ridgway is something like 90. No, Gary Ridgway is like something like 90 something. Yeah, because he did it. I fucked simply like, you know how Stanley Tucci makes dinner?

Where, like, if you see these videos on YouTube. He took his time. Yeah, where, like, it's just always how he's been, like. He fucked his wife on top of it. He's always got, like, a little scarf on. And he sits there and he's been like, you know, we had prosciutto di Montagnato last night. And I had a little bit left. And some Lagornio pasta. And I had a little bit of Teresi oil. And I just whipped up. And there's something about doing it low effort and simply in a way. Where you're just there to fucking come in your pants by strangling somebody to death. That can really allow you to kill a lot of people.

Like if your process is not super elaborate, it's actually way easier to get along without getting caught. It's like the less imagination you have, the less of a chance you are getting caught. That makes a lot of sense. But with Gacy, like it,

He's big. Like, he's scary. This guy's tiny looking. He doesn't look tough at all. All you had to do is get somebody blackout drunk and put him in a vulnerable situation. And it's not just blackout drunk, as we'll get into later. He probably had other methods for, you know, putting these guys under. A lot like Dahmer did. Okay.

Well, this guy who had killed 21 between 82 and 84, Larry Ehler, his signature had been to drug, handcuff, and disembowel his victims, then pull their pants around their ankles as a final indignation. He'd then leave them off remote highways. But thankfully, he was caught in 1984 and died of AIDS on death row 10 years later. So they got one of them. Yeah. So he got AIDS in prison. Nope. He got AIDS before. Wow. Well, at least as far as I know. 10 years later?

If he died in 84? Once he got in prison, then he technically got health care. I mean, I don't think you're going to have AIDS for 10 years back then. I mean, maybe I'm an idiot. You very much can. AIDS, like, you didn't like. No one knew. There are some people who actually got AIDS back then who actually survived. I mean, very, very few. But yeah, it really affected a lot of people in different ways. Some people would go very quickly. Some people would linger on for a long time.

Okay. And that's where I'm going to end this because I don't know anymore. You don't want to know anymore about HIV. We don't know that much either. So you're talking to two people who only just know that much more about itself. I know a fair amount. I've looked into it. Yeah, sure.

Now, to be fair, there was an FBI task force formed to try and find the I-70 Strangler, but they were unable to come up with even a suspect before they were forced to shut down the investigation. The bodies also stopped in 1991, but gay men continued to disappear from the gay bars of Indianapolis.

And of course, the fucking Indianapolis PD, like they all are, they said at the time that they didn't have the resources to investigate the disappearances of these gay men. I mean, if there were fucking white cheerleaders going missing every fucking, like every few months, then yeah, I think they might find the fucking resources. But back then... If they were killing congressmen. Yeah. And even now, I don't think that the fucking police departments would give that much of a fuck about like missing gay, especially like gay sex workers or...

they're not going to fucking care. No. This is my question to the audience I wanted to pose. Sidestorieslpotl at gmail.com.

We're going to, so we know that her bowmeister was super uncomfortable sitting in these gay bars. The common theme seemed to be that he'd hang out and he'd look like he'd be at the gay bar and he'd look like he did not want to be there. But he'd still go home with a guy. He'd look like a Republican at a gay bar. Yes. Dressed nice. Well, no, kind of whatever. It's just more so like very much in the closet, hiding in a gay bar. But he'd still go home at night with somebody. And I'd love to know.

Like, from our guys, from our people who go out there and, like, go to this, like, what makes, what would make somebody, like, fuck a weirdo like Herb Baumeister? Same thing with Jeffrey Dahmer. Like, in this period, like, yeah, sure. Like, I wonder, is it just slim pickings? I mean, I think we'd have to, I mean, if we have in our, any of our older gay listeners. Yeah, I'd love to know. We'd have to ask them, it's like, what was it like in, like, 1989? What was it a weird, what is it about, like, because Jeffrey Dahmer was a fucking weirdo. Same thing. We can say the same thing. Plenty of...

Nice women go home with horrible dudes all the time. Yeah, I guess. It's just like if you're persuasive enough and you're buying enough drinks, people are going to go home with you sometimes. He wasn't charming. He was not. Charming and aggressive and haunting you and going and not persistence is a different thing. Or we're, you know, the idea. Are we going to go home and fuck? Are we going to go home and fuck? Well, maybe we should go home and fuck. We can go home and fuck. Yeah. And then eventually they're like, fuck.

Shut the fuck up! Or you just wait until 4 o'clock in the morning when everything's closing and then you just kind of figure out who's the last loopy-eyed person and then you kind of convince him to go in your car and then no one sees him ever again. Exactly. And it's all fucking awful. Yeah. Right from Northridge.

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Now not so coincidentally, 1991 was the same year that Herb Baumeister and his family moved to an 18-acre property called Fox Hollow Farm, which gave Herb ample room to dispose of corpses in a more private setting.

Now, Fox Hollow Farm was far above the Baumeister's budget. He always lived beyond his means. The house was a 10,000 square foot, two-door style property with 15 rooms, including five bathrooms. But the most important part of the house for her Baumeister was the bizarre indoor swimming pool in the basement. The Midwest, man. Have you ever gone to like Zillow Gone Wild or any of those things where they show like accounts of like houses in the middle of fucking nowhere that are like...

The Midwest has the sex-filled indoor pool on lockdown. Cold for most of the year. Yes, but there's something about an indoor pool that just says, Dad strangles gay prostitutes in here. There's something about it. I don't know what it is. It's creepy, and then you think about it, and it's like, I want one. No, I do too, but I don't want it. But what will happen to us if we have one?

This is the problem. Do we just become her Baumeister? Or you get thinner from exercising. Yeah, you just swim a lot. It's really fun. I actually feel like I never swim for exercise. I always kind of float and drink. You do. Yeah. Good for you. Yeah.

Well, the pool is where it's thought that Herb committed most, if not all, of his murders between 1991 and 1996. In all, it's been proven that unless some other guy was dumping bodies in Herb's backyard, Baumeister murdered and disposed of

25 men in just five years at Fox Hollow Farm. And there's just no way that it's just 25. I think it is way more than that. It's just what they could even find. It's just what they found. What they even put together. They collected every bit of bone. They DNA tested all of it. They could. And they came up with, yeah, 25. Okay. Now, because Herb and Julie refused to pay for a cleaning service and they were too busy running the thrift stores to clean themselves. Yeah, no one's going to sell these pool noodles that you found in the dump.

the dump. The manor at Fox Hollow Farm soon became filthy and jam-packed with junk and trash. Eventually, the attic became infested with raccoons, so many that some of the ceilings in the upstairs bedrooms were visibly soaked in raccoon urine and feces. Man, can you imagine just being that raccoon in the attic?

You're taking the dump like you do every night. You're watching through the hole in the ceiling that you've created with your own acidic urine. And you're watching the guy that is your landlord, ostensibly. Murder man after man after man in the pool. It's the raccoon. That's got to be traumatizing. You're sitting there. You already got to deal with so much. You're an unhoused animal. You're there. You're hanging out. No, you're a housed animal. But you're squatting. You're the definition of a housed animal. You're squatting.

And you sit there, you're smoking, watching them kill people, just being like, I just wish that somebody got this guy another hobby. Because I hate watching this. This is bumming me out. Well, maybe they liked eating people. You don't know. I actually feel like the raccoons are extremely innocent here. Actually, a lot of animals on the property did eat raccoons.

the remains, so I would imagine those raccoons did actually eat quite a few. Of course they did. They ate anything. And they were hanging out because they're getting fed. How many bones are in the attic? Because they're thieves. Oh, whoa. Did we check? But I think raccoons eat bones. Sure. Why not? I know wolverines do, but who knows? Who knows what Hugh Jackman does?

Well, like his home, Herb's thrift stores soon became filthy as well and were piled with mountains of garbage bags full of donated clothes that Herb refused to throw away or go through because they were too dirty. Again, a man of contradictions. The problem was that Herb had chosen terrible locations for his stores in bad neighborhoods.

The donations were usually from locals who tended to be poor. So his dream of opening an upscale shop wasn't happening, and it therefore seemed like he was losing interest. Yeah, he thought he was going to make a consignment shop. No. And it was not happening because he does not have. I've seen consignment shops. Normally they're lovely. They're curated by like lovely Instagram ladies, you know, and they're always like doing like a fun little video about all the fun 70s clothes they have. That's a consignment store. This is a dump.

He'd again often disappear in the middle of the day, telling employees he was going to the bank, then he wouldn't return for hours on end. Other times he'd show up with a quote-unquote male friend and liquor on his breath, and the two of them would continue to drink at the shop. Oh, you know, Herbie, he's got all his buddies. It's like Jesus with his disciples, hanging out, enjoying each other's company, having sex with each other.

But out of all the quote-unquote male friends that Herb Baumeister had, only one who visited the farm survived to tell the tale. And it's from this man, Tony Harris, that we get even a peek into Herb Baumeister's serial killer M.O. Well, it's very similar to this one survivor of John Wayne Gacy that we had. Yep. Now, Tony Harris didn't know Herb Baumeister as Herbie from the thrift store. Instead, Tony knew him as Brian Smart, a man who was a serial killer.

a closeted gay Indiana Republican with leathery skin who hung around a gay bar called the 501 Tavern.

This just shows gay people, they'll buy, you know, new clothes. They're not going to the thrift store. They'll say what I've seen. Now, after Tony and Herb had a brief chat one night at the 501, Herb asked if Tony wanted to go out to what he said was his employer's house for a drink and a swim. This was, of course, Herb's place at Fox Hollow Farm, which was empty that night because his wife and kids had gone out of town, as they often did. They had to have gone out of town.

A lot. I mean, 25 guys. That's 25 trips out of town. I think every single time his wife and kids left, they'd go up to his mother's place, a condo on the lake, like 100 miles north. That was their vacation spot. Every single time they left, he went, picked up a guy and killed him. Yeah. I think that he may have done it while they were in the house, too. I think that he brought him downstairs. I think that this was a...

The denial that was happening in this house was at a... It's just the most denial that there's ever been. Yeah. Besides Michael Jackson's nanny. It's the most denial that's ever existed. I put it on par with Jerry Brudos. Yeah. Yes. The amount of denial that his wife had about... I mean, he was killed... Jerry Brudos was a serial killer. He was killing women in his garage. Wow.

And his wife lived with him. He was making casts out of the breasts that he had cut off of women he killed and putting them on his mantle, and she was just like, blank. Not accepting it at all. Same. You know, I feel like predators are really, really good at reading people. They're extremely able to know who is going to fucking come at me. You're also talking this time period, which was like...

there was still that like full stripe of misogyny. Like, I mean, obviously it's still embedded in the country, but wives are supposed to listen and not question their husbands. And these women were born with that put inside of their brains. And so they were just kind of like under this idea of like, well, if he's paying for stuff and he's not beating me, that's the bar, right? Which is, which is not,

healthy and we need a change in this country. He was awful too. Yeah. So she was probably happy to not be around him. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean I think the only guy who I think like truly pulled it off like where the wife had no idea and it's like okay like

I get it, was Dennis Rader. Oh, yeah. I think his wife had zero idea that he was BTK. He was such a meticulous control freak. Yeah. Yeah. It was his whole life was his balancing his second life and his first life. Yeah.

Now, Tony was well aware of the danger of going to a stranger's secluded house, especially considering how so many gay men in Indianapolis had gone missing over the last decade or so. This was 1994, and Herb had committed as many as 20 murders by this point. And that's not including the I-70 strangling. That is including the I-70 strangling. You think so? 94, yeah. He'd only been at the house for a few years. Oh, okay. Three years. Yeah.

Now, one of Tony's friends, Alan Goodlett, had actually been one of the men who'd gone missing. But Tony nevertheless rolled the dice that night with Herb. Well aware of the risks, Tony insisted that he ride out to Herb's farm in Herb's car. So if Tony were to say go missing, his abandoned car would serve as a marker that he disappeared. In a weird way, it's like...

that he did this? It's just a, this person knew that they were entering into a risky situation, which they might have found erotic. Some people do. You know, and then you go and you, yeah, but that's also, if you're going to be risky erotically, then you're not.

do some safety measures in there. Have a spotter. Yeah, phone a friend. Now, once they got to the house, it was completely dark. Herb said that the power was off upstairs, but the basement was fully juiced, and that's where Herb had his indoor pool. Set the scene here, Marcus. Like, you're in the middle of the fucking Indiana woods. You've driven out in the middle, because that was the thing, right? Well, it's the suburbs. You're in the suburbs, but still, it's like a 30-minute drive. It's a huge property. Huge property. You were just in downtown...

Indianapolis, wherever their city was. They were hanging out, right? Normal to gay bar. You're going to go to a second location, which we always say, never do. Never go to a second location. You're out in the middle of the fucking woods. You see this mansion. This mansion.

This mansion, middle of nowhere, big land. Broken down mansion. Broke already. Disgusting looking. Yes. There was a pit. Like there's things in there that are already super weird. He's got stuff just hanging out in the fucking yard, right? Like all of his treasures and his junk is all just kind of hanging out in this yard. It really is. It's Adam's family like. It's very scary. You're driving in and then you go into his, like he takes you through his dark house.

But he's saying it's not my house. It's not my house. It's my employer's house. It's not my house. You go through this house. Reeks of piss. They'd say the whole place was horrifying. It's a hoarder's house. No way. This guy? I know. But you go through this house and he's just like...

Well, actually, this is not even my, that powers out. You gotta see the pool. And then you go down to the pool, and this is what you see. This inside, it's all like, cheesily, like, done with tile and shit. Yeah, the first alarming thing that Tony noticed upon descending into the pool room were all the mannequins. Two were upright next to the pool, one was face down, and another was standing off to the side wearing only a woman's wig.

four mannequins just hanging out. Staring. And when Tony asked, hey, what's with the mannequins? It's kind of strange. Yeah, well, you have all these mannequins who are... Herb replied that he got lonely out there and didn't like to be alone. Bad answer. Yes. And this is a weird thing to say. Not least because Herb had said at the bar that he was only in town for a couple of weeks. And also, it also said that it was his employer's place. This meant that...

if you were following Herb's story, that he would have had to have brought the mannequins with him from another location for a two-week stay. Well, how do you think I save 30 minutes going either way in the HOV lane? Yeah, yeah, exactly. You ever seen today's special on Nickelodeon? He leaves, they come alive, they have a great time at the pool, they come back, they're mannequins.

But when Herb sensed the confusion and felt the follow-up questions coming, he changed the subject to cocaine. Yeah, it's always good. That's a good diversion. If you don't want anybody to question your audience of mannequins, always offer cocaine. Yeah. Tony declined and played it safe with a joint. But Herb also kept pushing Tony to have a drink.

Tony kept refusing, and every time Tony refused, Herb got more and more annoyed. Because guess what was in the fucking alcohol? Yeah, well, I mean, who knows? Because to me, it seems like alcohol was probably a part of Herb's M.O. That's what Jeffrey Dahmer did. Yes, either Herb counted on getting his victims drunk enough where fighting back would be difficult, or he spiked their drinks. Jeffrey Dahmer used Haldol. But smartly, Tony kept refusing. Eventually, Herb left. And that's the thing. Anytime anyone's pushing a drink on you...

Say no and go away. Just go away. Say no and leave. You are better off in the woods. On foot. Just you know where the main road is. Just start walking towards the main road. I got to go to the bathroom and book it. Yeah. Eventually, Herb left and returned energized, probably because he'd done a lot of cocaine in the other room. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know it hits you harder when you stick it in your ass. Hey, you know what I'm saying here, mannequins? Don't you come to life tonight, mannequins, because I'm busy. With such, Herb got ahead of case of the gacked out jabberjacks and went on and on about his mom, his dad, and being gay. Yeah, woo. All while Tony politely listened. Like my shirt?

Like this shirt costs me $100! Like these shoes! Now eventually, Herb convinced Tony to take a swim. But while they were in the pool, Herb asked Tony if he wanted to see a neat trick. This neat trick was autoerotic asphyxiation. Ooh, that's not a trick! And after Herb claimed that it could give a man the most intense orgasm imaginable, Tony was reluctant but intrigued. So, he agreed to try it.

taking a length of hose herb wrapped it around tony's neck gently at first but then he began tightening the hose more and more until tony felt light-headed realizing that he was in trouble tony pretended to pass out and fell limp into the water

After Herb relaxed, Tony jumped up and screamed that Herb was the one who'd killed his friend Alan, who'd killed all the men who'd gone missing. Tony then started choking Herb, who turned blue, passed out, and slipped under the water. But like a monster in a horror movie, Herb shot out of the water moments later, coughing, and after a bit, he smiled at Tony and said, quote, this is what Tony said that Herb said, Wow, crazy.

You could have killed me, but that was so cool. It was such a rush, but you're supposed to hold me above water when I lose consciousness. Like just fucking blanket and just blanking on it. Just like, oh yeah, no, this is just something that happens all the time. That was great. Let's keep going. Good job.

It's a great deflection, to be honest with you. He legitimately... He understood what he just did because he couldn't get him fully in and then he didn't kill him. And now it's too late. I guess he could have killed him, but what's weird is I think that when he came back and choked him...

he was like, oh, this guy's cool. Like, oh, this guy fucking gets it. Or he's actually stronger than him. Probably not hammered. And not super hammered. He realizes this isn't going to work. I guess we'll just have normal sex tonight. Well, perhaps relaxing a bit at Herb's nonchalant attitude, Tony listened as Herb gave specific instructions on how you're supposed to do autoerotic asphyxiation, saying that he should see how beautiful it looks when someone's lips change color

color when you're doing it to them to demonstrate in a better atmosphere tony and herb got out of the pool and sat on a couch where herb pulled out a necktie and told tony to choke him while he jerked off he said this is how you do it tony obliged then they switched oh tony pretended to fall unconscious again then started arguing once more about her possibly killing tony's friend alan

Since Tony had gotten a ride with Herb, he agreed to spend the night but faked falling asleep. Can you imagine sitting in that bed where you just know that all the mannequins are awake and the raccoons are in the ceiling and everything smells like piss? I think he kept him downstairs in the basement the entire time. Yeah, definitely. Once Herb was out, Tony called his sister to tell her that the guy he was with wasn't right.

He then stayed up all night trying to work up the courage to find some trace of his friend Alan. The next morning, though, Herb went out to run an errand, which left Tony alone in the house to finally explore the upstairs in the light of day. What struck him, he said, was how messy and disorganized it was, but he specifically noticed how much video recording equipment and videotapes Herb had in his possession.

He thought he was a film producer of some kind. Not good. Why would he leave him there? This was the weird thing about Herb Balmaster, and we'll get into it a little bit later. He left everything everywhere. He just didn't care. He just didn't care. I view him in what they talk about with psychopaths of like, we talk about his shallowness.

So there's a thing there where with psychopaths, that's like one of the main issue is that they can't feel feelings. So they are they need excitement and they crave excitement and some form of like a red. They want to be pushed into feeling something.

And so I think with him is that you see it with the I-70 strangler murders and these murders and the way he disposed of the bodies. He did it in the most lazy way possible. And I don't think it's it's like number one is because humans are not human to him. Humans are objects. It's the only he views everything as a 2D paper cut out. Right. Like everybody. Nobody has any. You don't have a soul to him.

And so you're just somebody he can come on. And so he does that. And then once it's out of him, I really, the idea that he goes away, that her Baumeister that you know goes away, this shadow herb steps forward, does the thing in a fugue state, comes and

At the end of it, he's just like, that's done. And then he just sort of moves on. And so like all of that stuff that night, I think he was just like just having a normal day. Met this guy. Don't know this guy. You know, like literally just kind of I'm now going to go put my herb mask on and I'm going to go to the store. Finally, though, Herb came home and offered to take Tony back to his car at the 501 Club. Once they returned, they exchanged numbers. And just before leaving, Herb said, quote, I had a really good time. You really know how to play sport.

And then said, see you later. Bye. See you soon. Now, Tony definitely escaped his own death that night. Yeah. And as I said earlier, Herb had killed as many as 20 men by the time Tony had his weird night in the country. And now that I think about it, it was 94.

20 to 25. I would put that, yeah, maybe 25 because that's the other thing. We also have very little idea of the frequency with which he killed. We just know it's 25 in five years. Yeah. And that's it. The question here though is if Herb was no longer dumping bodies along I-70, where was he putting them? Hmm.

The answer, quite simply, was the 18 acres of property he owned. But Herb wasn't burying the bodies. Instead, Herb was killing men, burning off the flesh, crushing the bones, and scattering the remains above ground for anyone to find.

And that was when Herb was feeling motivated. Sometimes he'd just leave the bodies out in the open to decompose. He did it once, as far as we know. And he did that in the fall of 1994 when his own son found one of Herb's murder victims. Whoopsie! I always probably burn these and bang them up. I actually thought I had beat the curiosity out of you, son!

But just about 60 feet from the back patio of their home, Herb's 13-year-old son found a full human skeleton lying in the undergrowth under some trees. He's hanging out. Perhaps used to finding weird shit around the house...

This kid took the skull and put it on a stick so he could use it to chase around his sister. How old was he? 13. Oh, yeah. I'm certain this kid's fine. I think he's fine. There's no way he's going to have any problems. If he was like eight or nine, I'd be like, oh, you know, I probably would have done it and not thought twice about it. But 13, you should know.

Oh, no, I'd play with the human skull up to about 25. Yeah. And I had just found, before now, I understand, like, all the issues with it, but if I found a human skull, I, unfortunately, when I was younger, the first thing I would have done would have been like, hey, how you doing? And I'd play with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Jaws and stuff, yeah. Now, his mother, Julie, was horrified when she saw the skull on a stick and asked where he'd found it. Oh, where'd you find these toys? Oh, did the cat

do this? Full human skull. Yeah. Herb's son brought her to the spot where she found a full human skeleton looking like, as she put it, as if someone had just laid down and died. Now, instead of calling the police, Julie went to her husband and asked him why there was a skeleton in their backyard. I gotta ask here. Have you been letting skeletons sleep in the backyard? It's like, and I don't have a problem with it. I don't, you know, whatever you want to do, but it seems that they're just...

But if you're just throwing a body in your backyard and it's decomposing to the point where it's a skeleton, it had to have reeked. Well, what he had probably done, and this is his MO again and again, it's not like he just left the body. He felt like just killed a guy and then left the body. He would kill a guy, burn the body immediately, and then he probably dragged the body somewhere else to decompose. That's why there was no clothes on the skeleton.

Yeah, well, there were no clothes. He was burning the skin as much as he could off, and the rest of it would kind of melt. Yeah, all the flesh. So, yeah, it could be. And then animals, honestly, animals took care of the rest. Yeah. So, yeah, it could have been very much like a bone, a skeleton, mostly picked clean. Now, what is that? Like, what do they got around there? I guess they got badgers and wolverines. Indiana? Wolves, coyotes. Raccoons. Yeah, raccoons. Wow, it's a whole world of...

man cannibal raccoons human flesh consuming squirrels I don't like do raccoons don't tell Travis Irvine that's his third

Well, when Julie asked her husband, like, what the fuck, Herb casually said that it was an old anatomical skeleton of his father's that he'd stored in the garage until just recently. And he decided to get rid of it by just throwing it into the treed area behind the house. That's how you get rid of stuff. Yep. Okay. Bye-bye. Pretty good. It's not the craziest story. It's one of those lies that it's like, it's so weird, it's real. Yeah.

Because, I mean, he was a hoarder, and his father was a doctor. And a week later, the skeleton was gone. And Julie put the human skeleton that was found basically in her backyard out of mind. Yeah, that skeleton probably got a job and moved on. Yeah, it's like 20 years later, you're like, oh, my God, that skeleton. Oh, my God.

No. Actually, it was two years later. Well, partly, Julie was able to forget about this because life was falling apart for the Baumeisters. They were behind on their bills, the thrift stores were failing, and the Baumeister marriage was reaching its natural conclusion, although the process would be long and drawn out. They'd stay together for 25 years. Yeah, and they got almost divorced like three or four times, and then he'd somehow keep pulling it back. I don't know if it's just because she just didn't...

want to go or like just scared to be, I'm straight up just scared to be single, scared to him. She had nobody. Did she have a job? No. No. Well, yeah. Would you work at a thrift store? Yeah. They ran the thrift. She co-owned the thrift stores. Like he ran one store and she ran the other one.

Julie filed for divorce in 1994, and Herb moved into the in-law suite on their property. But the impending divorce freed up a lot more time for Herb to go see his favorite band, a white guy blues outfit based out of Madison, Wisconsin, called Dr. Bop and the Headliners. It is...

Absolute garbage. Did you watch any of it? I did. I watched some. I'd go see them. It's fine. It's not garbage. It's a cover band in Indiana. It just feels like they play... I mean, it's just the type of band where they play at retirement homes. Yeah. Now, Herb was obsessed with Dr. Bob and would drop everything

Everything to go see a Dr. Bop show. Everyone needs a fan. Yeah, they do. And I mean, Dr. Bop was big. They were a very they were a big regional band and they're reasonably entertaining for a regionally popular band.

Now, to give a little more insight into Dr. Bop and perhaps her Baumeister, Henry will now read the Dr. Bop entry from the Illinois Rock and Roll Museum on Route 66, which is weird considering how this band is from Wisconsin. Hey there, cats and dogs. Get all your ducks in a row because these pigs are about to come out of the hen house. Now...

It was the early 70s. The emergence of Dr. Bop and the headliners was one of the surest signs that the protest era that had dominated the University of Wisconsin campus and the national news in recent years was coming to a close. It's weird that they're celebrating that so much. Long as...

Oh, these long hairs were packing Marsh Shapiro's nitty gritty to see a band that violated every rule of the then current hip code. They wore stage suits. Each member portrayed a likable character. They smiled. They talked to the audience. They were funny. They embraced every showbiz cliche in the book and they played 50s music. The classic early Dr. Bop lineup was Singer, The White Raven,

Jerry Lee Larry. Troy Chardell. Jerry Lee Larry? Are you serious? That's me. I used to be Jerry Lee Lewis, but he ruined the name. Yep, I wanted to be that, but then you got that cousin fucker playing that

piano irresponsibly. We've got the ferret de Monte Cristo. Oh, it's ferret. Yeah. Pronounced ferret. And don't forget about Terry Sharmell and Speedo. And on the drums and expertly and expertly handling the duties of master of ceremonies, Mike Regal, a.k.a. Dr. Bop.

And so on and so forth. The entry is very long. Dr. Bop sounds like a super flu that would be in a Stephen King novel. Yeah, it's like Captain Trips, Dr. Bop, yeah. Interestingly, Dr. Bop just celebrated their 50th year as a touring band in 2021. What? They're still doing it? They did it through COVID? Yeah.

There was no COVID in Indiana. Not if you make it through COVID. Yeah, that doctor who tried to help me. Yeah, she was skeptical.

Yeah. Which was not. That's because she was listening to Dr. Bop. That's the problem. My doctor is Dr. Bop. Well, that's the funny thing is that Dr. Bop, they edged out her Baumeister's age at the time of his death by a year. Wow. Yeah, Baumeister was 49. Wow.

But as Baumeister was rocking out at Dr. Bop performances, authorities were slowly but surely, and I do mean slowly, closing in on their suspect. I wish we could play some Dr. Bop so you could just imagine her or Baumeister just going like, yeah! Woo!

Yeah! Now, the person who found the first link to Herb was not a member of the Indianapolis police, but a private detective with the perfect PI name of Virgil Vandegrift. Yeah, it's cool. He'd been hired to investigate the disappearance of a man named Alan Broussard, who'd last been seen coming out of the gay bar Brothers in June of 94. This is always for all of you to remember, which we talk about. We talk about the less dead.

People saying, like, sex workers getting murdered. Like, when they're the police and the killers mentality is that no one's looking for these people. But that is completely not true. There is always somebody in some level, like, depending on what's going on, like, these people have families. They have friends. They have social workers that they connect with a lot of times. Like, there are people looking for them. And there are a lot of times people that crack the case. Yep.

Virgil's big break finally came when he talked to Tony Harris, the guy who'd survived his night with Herb Baumeister. Problem was, Tony only knew him as Brian Smart, and all searches Virgil made on the name Brian Smart of course turned up nothing.

Hey, everybody! Thinking fast, Tony told one of his friends to go get this guy's license plate number while Tony distracted her by asking...

Hey, show my friends how to do that Chokey Jerk-Off thing you do. Yeah, and he's just like- That's actually great. It's very smart because now he's like showing evidence. Oh, yeah. He's showing everybody. Oh, no, it's very good. Yes, and he was getting super uncomfortable. Like, he did not know how to respond to this while he was doing this. Oh, he didn't just put on a show for everybody? No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, you're taking no lessons from Dr. Bob. Yeah, all right.

Now, the friend did manage to get the license plate number, which was passed on to Detective Mary Wilson with the Indianapolis PD, who seemed to be the only person who gave a damn about all the missing men. She found that the car was registered to Herb Baumeister, but the registration was still attached to the address at Herb's old house. Now, is this the hearse with the lights on it? No, no, this is a gray Buick. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I had one of those. They're nice. Oh, nice. Oh, wow. I had an 82 LeSabre. I am not the bad guy.

bad guy. You know when we start calling those cars Baumeisters. Would that be bad? I don't think gray Buicks really exist anymore. Oh yeah, Buicks around. Yeah, but gray? Yeah. Meanwhile, Herb's life was falling apart in every way it could. Oh yeah, he was like, he wasn't, I don't know how to tell you this, Eddie, but yeah, he wasn't ready to be a business owner. No. No.

The Savalot stores were close to bankruptcy. Divorce proceedings with his wife were on and off and lawsuits were being filed by creditors. But Savalot is also where Detective Wilson got Herb's new address at Fox Hollow Farm. After discovering Herb, she became a regular customer at the store, hoping that Herb would show his face. After weeks of browsing, he finally showed up.

So, Mary Wilson politely asked if she could ask him some questions about some missing persons cases. Yeah, that'd be great! Yeah! I'm

I love to help! I love to help! We're not selling them here! He agreed to talk the next day, but when Detective Wilson showed up asking about men going missing from gay bars... I don't think men miss gay bars at all! Herb said he'd never been to a gay bar, and he wasn't gay anyway, so really don't know why you're talking to me about all this. But when Detective Wilson said that his license plate was taken from a gay bar parking lot, Herb admitted, alright, you got me, I go to gay bars, but don't tell anyone because my wife doesn't know.

That, however, was all Herb was willing to give up. That's very common within murder. It's what they do with police officers, what they do when they get you in an interrogation. The goal is to get you the small little things that will open you up

up to telling the entire story because our entire judicial system basically depends upon a confession. They want a confession or a murder weapon. Otherwise, circumstantial evidence, we always, you know, they say no murder, nobody no murder all the time, right? We're like, it's hard to convict without the physical evidence. We're like, this guy, like, she set it all up for him and he knew that if, maybe if I cop

To just being gay and say, this is why I'm so shady. People then will sort of like, kind of like leave me alone. Yeah, but then he just admitted that he was there. Yes. But from then on, Herb directed all his questions to his lawyer, a guy named James Voiles. Interestingly, Voiles had previously represented an accomplice to the gay serial killer that I mentioned earlier, Larry Ehler.

So it's pretty positive that Herb knew what was coming. Yeah, if you hire the guy that just defended the newest serial killer in town, it's a bit suspicious. Also, why would you hire him? He got convicted. Hey!

But he knows that he won't ask a bunch of questions. Well, changing tack, Detective Wilson then asked Herb's wife, Julie, if she could get permission from her to search their home, telling her that they were investigating her husband in relation to, quote, homosexual homicide. Oh, wait a second. Homosexual homicide. That don't sound like my Herbie. Can you imagine if it did?

She was like, oh, homosexual homicide. Yes, did you know my husband's favorite color is the lips of a dead man? It is one of his favorite things. He said something that is just so fun for him to come big when he's choking. Because sometimes these guys, they go to sleep and they don't get back up, but that's nice for them to be dreaming, right? Homicidal, homosexual homicide. Is that his favorite cologne?

Shocked, Julie again went to Herb, who said that an ex-employee was harassing him with false accusations. There's definitely no homosexual homicide going on here. It's a hard position to be in. It really is. Now that I got this employee, because he plays it all off. It's all casual. It's like, ah, that's fucking bullshit. Fucking that dude that I fired two weeks ago, he's trying to get me in trouble. Homosexual homicide! Homosexual homicide!

What a ruck. What a ruck. Oh, my God. Leave the jokes to the comedian. I'm going to go to the swimming pool. Excuse me, I'm going to go out of town. This, again, was good enough for Julie, or at least good enough for Julie to once again avoid a horrific truth. So she also refused to search on Fox Hollow Farm.

Now, while Detective Wilson hit nothing but dead ends for another two years because she didn't have enough evidence to get a search warrant for the place. She had to have permission. Herb and Julie's relationship ebbed and flowed. First, they were getting a divorce. Then they weren't. Then they were again. At certain points, they sued each other, and the thrift stores would open and close again and again. It's just fucking chaos and turmoil constantly.

But for some reason, the last straw came on June 20th, 1996. That day, Herb told Julie that he was intending to take their children to a six-week program at Culver Military Academy. He just wanted to get rid of the family. He literally was just trying to get rid of everybody out of the house. Yeah. And after this, Julie said, fuck them, and called Detective Wilson to finally give her permission to search Fox Hollow Farm. God, it took so fucking long.

Because you remember what happened with John Wayne Gacy. I actually feel like in some ways he was aware because he hired that serial killers lawyer. And because obviously John Wayne Gacy was an extremely famous case that I think that he saw a little bit of the patterns within John Wayne Gacy and wanted to emulate it and saw. Because you remember once John Wayne Gacy's and then once he finally got divorced and he admitted that he was bisexual and he was doing all this stuff like he then got to really.

Yeah. Right. So I wonder if in his mind, he's like, I'll get rid of the kids. My wife and I will finally divorce. And then finally I can be the gay devil in here that I want to be. Yeah. Do you think during those two years, was he still killing people? He was. Oh, yeah. No, he absolutely was. At that point, he probably killed anywhere between six and twelve. Wow. Yeah. Busy boy.

Now, at first, investigators who weren't as familiar with the cases, Detective Wilson, assumed that this was just a wife trying to get back at her husband for some reason or another, which, as we know from other serial killer cases, it happens. Oh, yeah. Every time they put out a call, like it happened with Son of Sam. Oh, yeah. It happened with Boston Strangler. Like, a wife will call up and say, my husband did it. He's a bastard.

Yeah, it's like they're assholes or something. Yeah, no, they're always fucking terrible. Yeah, they're a piece of shit. Yeah, yeah, they always look into them. No one gets accused of being the son of Sam because they're like a fun guy. But once Detective Wilson convinced them that Baumeister was the best and only suspect concerning most of the disappearances and murders of gay men over the last 15 or so years, officers began searching the property. As soon as Detective Wilson got there, the first thing she said was, wow. Yeah. Yeah.

Like Owen Wilson. Oh, wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Well, very quickly. You know, I don't kill. He's popular. He's popular. Why don't they just bring a police dog and like throw a tennis ball over and be like, oh, look, he came back with a ball. Oh.

There he goes. That's really good. That's a good way to do it. Well, very quickly, investigators saw that there were hundreds of bone fragments around a burn pile in the backyard, most smaller than a thumb and all charred from fire. The bones had been shattered, and the area was also scattered with teeth. I have no idea how honestly that Julie wasn't also immediately arrested. When they arrive, and it's not, again, it's just,

They're scattered in the backyard. It's not deep in the lands. It is right here. It's 60 feet from the backyard. It's visible from the home. These are obviously, these are shattered human bones. I mean, it's not like there's a landscaper. So I imagine the grass is probably like really tall. Maybe. And it's hard to like, you're not going to see it out the back.

window. Very true. Very possible. She's not going to go mow the grass herself because she's a sloppy woman. It's still littered with human bones. Now, Marcus, as a bone man, would you be able to tell if a human bone was all smashed up? Absolutely not. I would not be able to tell in any way whatsoever. Nobody would. The teeth, I feel like you could tell.

The teeth, I would say that looks like a man's molar. I guess. But on the other hand, it could also be like a small... It's not like we're the only mammals with molars or incisors or anything like that. I mean, you could possibly... You could say like, let's check that out. That's what I would say. Let's...

Let's go ahead and check that out. If he's not a taxidermist or if he's not a habitual hunter or works for a slaughterhouse, why in the living fuck would he have a pit of just animal bones? Raccoons. Getting rid of the raccoons. They're alive and out! They are actively roommates with the family. But there's so many raccoons, you gotta keep killing the raccoons all the time, but then more raccoons show up. Wouldn't you hear the raccoons scream? I bet you heard all kinds of shit out of that animal. She was just like,

Just swiffering her one little clean spot where her butt sits. Maybe that's what he told her every time she was out of town. It's like, well, time to kill the raccoons. I got to go up there. I'll kill as many as I can. Oh, but Herbie, it seems like there's still about 20, 25 up there or so. Yeah, but last week there was 40.

Hey, Herbie, I love ya. Oh, Herbie. Now, the captain who had thought all this was just a spat between a married couple, they kept insisting that these bones were from animals. But once forensics got a hold of them, it's just so crazy how some of these cops... Okay, so you're killing a bunch of animals? What?

But it's not even a hard case. It's right there. All the bones are right there. You're going to scoop it all up. It's so weird how some of these cops just deny, deny, deny. They just don't. I think you're right. I think they just don't want to deal with it. Yeah, they're so skeeved out about gay stuff. Well, at this point, they don't know it's gay. They don't know what it is. They just know, like, oh, there's a lot of bones around here. But Mary Wilson is telling them, like, yeah, it is probably...

gay dudes. These are the bones of gay men that have gone missing. And they went, wow, wow, wow.

There you go, buddy. There you go. You got it. You got the genuine laugh. Should I call Lorne Michaels and say you're ready to go again? I refuse. I will not host. Well, after searching the property further, they found a larger bone area where they found a full human humerus. Nothing funny about that. It soon became clear that Herb Baumeister's property was a literal boneyard with thousands of fragments scattered across the property. Tens of thousands of fragments.

To expand the investigation, the head of forensics called in two of his assistants, known to everyone as the BEM twins. Yes, these are my twin boys. And I, the bone slicer. This is my twins. They are lovely little, this is Herman and Merman. They,

They love the family business. Carving and searching. We love a boneyard. We also love a buffet. Well, their job was to lay orange flags at every location where a bone was found. Within 30 minutes, they dropped 100 flags. Gonna need more flags. Just get a big one and put it in the backyard. It's kind of the whole thing.

It's kind of an old process. And then whenever the sun sets, you bring it down, you fold it, you bring it up, put it back on the floor. Well, according to those present, the Baumeister property soon looked like a mass disaster scene. It was like a plane crash or a terrorist attack. The majority of the bone fragments, however, were concentrated around an area that the police were soon calling the mulch pile.

This pile was so named because it appeared as if Herb was placing the dead bodies in this spot, burning them the best he could, then covering them with debris. Animals would then pull the dead bodies apart and drag pieces down to the creek where they'd float away, and then eventually he would smash up the bones and scatter them.

See, this is where it's kind of cute for the animals in one way, because they get to eat, and it's got to be fun for them. And in a way, those animals view this probably as the most incredible spot. This is their vacation home. I mean, if you're a scavenger, then yeah, this is going to be ... I mean, you are feeding ... I mean, this is fucking horrible, but yeah, you're feeding the animals. That's kind of nice. Yeah, because animals- In that way. The animals will come back to a place where they're fed. Yeah. I bet there's a bunch of vultures and stuff. Oh, no, it's Indiana. I don't think they have vultures in Indiana. They've got vultures everywhere. Yeah, everywhere. Yeah.

Every state in America has vultures. Is that true? Or buzzards. Yeah. What? They're just different types of vultures. I thought vultures were just in the desert. No. I had them all the time in Florida. We had turkey vultures. I remember turkey vultures, but those aren't vultures. Why do they have the name? They're turkeys. What? Turkeys are turkeys. Yeah, turkeys are turkeys. Vultures are vultures. I think turkey vultures are a style of turkeys. No. It's like a convertible turkey. Turkey vultures are a style of vulture. Yeah. Otherwise, they'd be called vulture turkeys.

Not necessarily. A vulture turkey would be a turkey. I will be vindicated. I don't think so. Sidestorieslpotl at gmail.com. I can fucking prove you wrong. I will wait. Oh my God, I'm looking. That is the fucking definition of a goddamn vulture. I'm looking forward and not looking at your propaganda. Either way, it's just they're letting the animals do the work. Yeah, I mean, he is. I mean, it's helpful.

Well, judging by the cans of Miller Genuine Drash found at the mulch pit, it seems as if Herb sat there drinking beer while watching the bodies burn to the point where the bones became brittle enough to smash to bits. Essentially, that was his favorite television show. That's like what he'd do. He'd go outside for hours just burning bodies, drinking beers.

Mm-hmm. No phones. And this had been going on for years. Wow. Man, imagine if you had a Bluetooth speaker. Oh, yeah. You'd be listening to Dr. Bob. Yeah, it would be so much better. Just Dr. Nothing but Dr. Bob. Burning bodies to Dr. Bob. You think Dr. Bob ever thought about that? Where he sat down- I bet every day he thinks about it.

I don't know if Dr. Bop knows. Unless Dr. Bop is also an intricate serial killer. Let us not malign Dr. Bop. I don't know. I'm sure one of our listeners knows that Dr. Bop's my fucking grandpa. I hope he hasn't killed.

No, unfortunately, on stage and off, he is not killed. Well, the prevailing theory is that the mulch pit was the original disposal spot. But out of laziness or arrogance, Herb began placing the bodies closer and closer to the house. By the end of it, he'd been burning and leaving bodies within eyeshot of the house's back porch.

The inside of the house, however, was proving to be a nightmare for forensics. It was a classic hoarder house filled with clutter and garbage from floor to ceiling. The raccoon infestation had essentially destroyed the upstairs bedrooms to the point where the ceiling had collapsed in spots where the raccoon waste had soaked it so thoroughly. Hey, guys, listen, I know that it's like weird to have a bunch of raccoons living in here, but let me tell you, fucking man.

Seriously, not the weirdest shit that's going on in this house. Right? It's just nice to finally have a place where we can all piss and shit on top of each other. Which is honestly, for us, this is a godsend. For a lot of people, it's not a nice place. But we're really enjoying ourselves. It was also the matter of the mannequins, which just sort of weirded everyone out. Yeah! What? What the...

pit. We got to know these mannequins are creepy. Meanwhile, there is a literal decomposition pit. Well, the mannequins plus the bone pit. Oh, yeah. Honestly, though, I would be creeped out by the mannequins. Yeah. But I would be thinking about the bone pit. Yeah, definitely. Who cares about the mannequins? He

He's a hoarder. Yeah, but the way they're set up... With their wigs on there and they're all staring at the pool where all the murders happen, obviously. Yeah. There were also hundreds of videotapes, but investigators noticed that one shelf was conspicuously missing its tapes.

One group of guys were tasked to watch all of the tapes for evidence of Herb's crimes, but when it was all said and done, the cops said there was nothing incriminating, extrapolating further by saying that they'd never watched so many episodes of Dallas in all their life. He loves Dallas. Loves Dallas. Stereotaped every episode. Herb, however, had obviously taken some extremely incriminating evidence from the scene, and by the time forensics were done with the house, they had no serial killer souvenirs or strangulation ligatures.

All they had were the bones. The bones! But he was a, he knew. And he had plenty of time to get his shit out. Yeah. Now it seems as if Herb may have known what was coming because he and his videotapes were during the search at his mother's lakeside condo 100 miles north of Indianapolis. I have to go return some videotapes. Be kind, please rewind.

After three days of digging, 5,500 bones, bone fragments, and teeth were found, but no skulls. Those had either been taken somewhere else or smashed beyond recognition. It was also possible that the skulls had been taken down to the creek and floated downstream. Maybe Watain got a hold of them. But why take the teeth out?

Because that's how you identify people. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's right. Following that lead, investigators searched a drainage ditch down the way from Fox Hollow Farm and found intact ribs, vertebrae, lower jaws, and entire spines. Later, the ditch would be dubbed Skull Creek by the local kids. Appropriate. Oh, my God. I would be in that creek every day.

every day looking for bones. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I would be fascinated. The entire summer would be, we're looking for bones. We're looking for human bones. Isn't this the funnest day of our lives? By this time, the news had broke that over 5,000 human bone fragments had been found on a property in Indianapolis. And we can speculate that Herb heard about it on the news while he was in northern Indiana. So he got in his gray Buick

and drove across the border to Ontario via Detroit.

After crossing the border, Herb pulled off underneath an underpass to sleep, but was awoken by a Mountie. While the Mountie didn't have any reason to detain Herb, just move along, he did notice a large amount of videotapes in Herb's backseat. Hey there, buddy. I can't help but tell I'm looking back here, and if I was you, the first thing I'd do is I'd take this bunch of... You gotta take these back to the video store. You don't even know what the kind... When you're holding on to inventory, there's people like me. I'm waiting.

I've been waiting for Cool World for weeks now. And you're holding on to it. I should arrest you on the spot.

Well, it's thought that Herb filmed every murder he ever committed at Fox Hollow Farm on CCTV. And he brought the tapes with him just to get rid of the incriminating evidence and to destroy them. I have two theories. One is either he had a camera and filmed it while it was happening. But I think that it might have been too conspicuous or he had a camera hidden, maybe. But the cameras were big at the time, so a little harder to hide.

My thing is that I think that it happened after the deaths, and that was when he was having his little bit of maybe...

Last night with Mary Jane, style, dressing straight. I actually think it might have been an entire production that we did not see. Also, some people are into getting videotaped while they fuck. Absolutely. Like Dennis Rader, you know, when he did his own self-photography and stuff like that. I can kind of see a world where this was another form of trophy for Herb Baumeister to put his secret self on. I guarantee the lighting was awful. Oh, yeah. Not good. Not good, friend.

But after being awoken by the Mountie, Herb found his way to Pinery Provincial Park along the shores of Lake Huron. There, in a sandy picnic area, he composed a suicide letter apologizing for leaving his family in financial ruin and for making an ugly mess in such a beautiful park. Aww. He also...

He also made sure to put all the blame for all of his problems on his wife, but never once mentioned a single murder. Yeah, weird, huh? Finally, he ended the note by saying he was going to eat a peanut butter sandwich and go to sleep. Then signed the note as THE.

Herb Baumeister. Yes! One night only! Yes! He then put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger. That was the end of Herb, who went to his grave, having never mentioned the murders to a single living person. Hold on a second. Did he have the sandwich or not? You know, I searched for this suicide letter for days. I could not find the suicide letter. Most of what we know about it from what I have gathered is that

It was extremely boring, and it was all just the description of this. It was just him driving, going, sleeping under the overpass. He just described his day, and that was it. Now, today, 10,000 bone fragments have been found at Fox Hollow Farm, and victims are still being identified as recently as last year. Which is why we're even doing this story, because in February of this year, they found new evidence. Oh, shit. Yes. Man.

man. The current owner says that he still finds fragments to this day. And notice I say current owner. So usually the sites of serial killings get torn down or abandoned completely. Especially when they're covered in raccoon piss and shit. Yes, yes. Yes. And the people who buy the property almost never want to talk about the terrible things that happened there. Yeah, it hurts the home value. What I've always wondered is if those places are ever haunted. And

And in this case, the author of Horror at Fox Hollow Farm says that the answer is a resounding yes. And it's with next week's episode that we'll fully explore the intense paranormal activity that supposedly plagues Herb Baumeister's

former killing grounds. Whoa, I thought the second episode we were just going to get more into the killing. No, dude. We're going to get into the haunting of Fox Hollow Farm. It really is. And supposedly Herb himself haunts the fucking place. This next half

is like what makes this one of the more unique stories that we've covered under like the banner of serial killers because like not only is it the paranormal activity well documented, it really is like unlike other like ghost stories we've covered. There's always something dubious in the nature of it. This place, I think...

It's like unbearably haunted. It's like wildly haunted. Yeah, soaked with energy. Yeah, and we're going to talk about it next week. I love it, man. We got all in one go. It's all of last podcast almost in one go. Yeah, if only aliens showed up, then we'd be good. And the only alien involved is Herb Baumeister. That's right. All right, well, this is fucking awesome. We're going to come back next week. We have a bunch of stuff we can't even announce yet.

And we're not going to. So we will announce other things first. Patreon.com slash Last Podcast on the left if you want to see us. Yes. If you want to see the actual video of this episode, go to Patreon.com slash Last Podcast on the left. And there's plenty of other perks there, including exclusive interviews with

You guys just did an interview with the guy who made the Octopus Murders documentary on Netflix. I know a lot of people are really getting into right now. So you can go to patreon.com slash last podcast on the left if you want to hear that. And it's not expensive. We actually give a lot of shit for not too much. We're doing our best. And then you can go down to TikTok, which is hopefully gone soon, at LP on the left. Check that out also on the Instagram.

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Come see us on tour. Oh, my God. I can't wait for this fucking tour. Australia in the summer in August. Can't wait to be there. It's all set, locked in. I think you're allowed illegally. I think you're allowed to enter the country. Yeah, I know. Just stop bringing it up on air. We'll figure it out. We'll get there.

And then North America, come see us on our JK Ultra tour. Can't fucking wait. Tickets are selling out. Go to lastpodgastontheleft.com to see all of the various cities that we're coming to and to get those on JK Ultra. Denver in May, Seattle in June, DC in July, and

and so forth. So forth. Yeah. Right here in LA, we're going to be doing Brooklyn. We're going to be doing King's Theater in Brooklyn. I'm so excited for King's Theater. Me too. I can't even tell you. I love that place. I cannot fucking wait. Guys, this is wonderful. Hail Satan. And honestly, if you're going to, if you're going to, if you feel like you're going to kill or want to kill,

Join the army. Yeah. Legally. Talk to somebody. The army. We don't want these people in the army. We want people that are those dudes that are in the army. We want them in the Navy. Yeah. Yeah.

The men and women in our armed forces need to be able to fucking count on the person next to them. We don't need psychopaths in there. We need capable human beings. You're probably right. We love our boys in green. Yeah, go talk to somebody if you have that, if your feelings and all that. Go talk to somebody. Yeah.

Yeah, sure. It's better than killing. Or get into acting. And I guarantee you, turkey vultures are vultures. They're vultures. They're not a fucking bird guy. Yeah, well, I watched them eat dead animals. That's because you're boring. I was once almost killed by a buzzard. Really? Yeah, my mom was driving us down. I was like five, and a buzzard flew straight into our windshield and almost lost control. Sounds like that buzzard was suicidal. Yeah.

Yeah. I guess that's what happens when you eat nothing but human flesh. They love it. Yeah. Was its last name Baumeister? Buzzard Baumeister. Oh, cool. Hugging everyone. Hail raccoons. Yeah. Yeah. Little hands. This show is made possible by listeners like you. Thanks to our ad sponsors. You can support our shows by supporting them. For more shows like the one you just listened to, go to lastpodcastnetwork.com.

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