Charlie Kirk's Mission To Transform A Generation
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Welcome to the Jason in the House podcast. I'm Jason Chaffetz, and thank you so much for joining me today. I really do appreciate your time, and thank you for doing this. I'm going to talk briefly about the news, give some thoughts on the news, highlight the stupid, because, you know, there's always somebody doing something stupid somewhere. And then we're going to phone a friend. This time I'm thrilled to get on the horn with Charlie Kirk. Charlie, amazing, with his Turning Point organization podcast.

what he's done online in his social media presence, the videos. I mean, we are talking about hundreds of millions of hits, people that have been watching these videos. And you know what? Charlie Kirk has made an impact on the younger generation that, I mean, I struggle to find anybody else who's had a bigger impact on that younger generation. Obviously, you can point to maybe a president, you know, President Trump, I'm sure Charlie would say.

But in terms of taking an idea, formulating it, putting it in a package, and then explaining to people why the conservative viewpoint makes so much sense and being able to couple that with the history.

of what actually went down. I mean, talk about a guy who's unafraid. If you've ever watched one of these videos, he'll go anywhere, talk to anybody, and he does it in a really respectful way. Like he tells people, hey, go ahead, tell me what you got to say. Give this guy some space. Let him say what he wants to say. And then when he listens to it, he actually has the backbone to explain and take a core position about

and not be bashful about it. And I tell you, I learned things from it. I think anybody who sees it is going to learn from it. And so I'm excited to give him a call. So anyway, stay with us. I want to give a few little takes on what's going on in the news because, you know, we look around the world. We see all these things that are happening. We see all the noise and the distractions. And one of the things that I'm worried about is, and I saw this written up,

And somebody else highlighted it, but it just makes total obvious sense to me that you have this interesting paradigm between what's going on in Russia, what's going on in China, and what's going on in Iran. And often we're talking about Russia or we're talking about China and then we forget about Iran or we're talking about Iran. The complexity of what the United States of America is going through right now is profound.

We have to, as a United States military, as a cyber defense system, as a nation that is competing, understand that we have adversaries, not just normal competitors that are trying to do things better than us, but people that want death and destruction to the United States of America. They would like nothing better than to have the United States perish, that the American people suffer more.

And we have to understand that. Now, one of the things I've seen throughout my lifetime, and I really do believe in my core, is that you can gain the peace through strength. I have never seen anybody actually achieve the peace by taking a weaker position that it just lays down their arms and just says, oh, you know, I just want to understand you a little bit better.

Or let's do it through appeasement. I saw appeasement in the Obama administration. I saw it in the Carter administration. I see it in the Biden-Harris administration. I got to tell you, less so actually in the Clinton administration. But there were times when he should have pulled the trigger and done some things that he did not do. And I think the American and the world was worse off.

The United States of America doesn't need to be the world's policeman. We don't need to be involved and engaged in every fight. We shouldn't be sending our men and women to all corners of the earth at all time to be that policeman and provide the safety and security blanket that is the United States. We need to take care of America first. That's what I saw Donald Trump do. But I'd look at two points in history, particularly with Ronald Reagan and Donald Trump.

two of the most secure presidencies in my lifetime. And it's because they took a very strong stance, not only in the military, but the way that they would actually use it. If you look particularly at the Ronald Reagan years, it was a very peaceful time. We ultimately won the Cold War.

Those walls fell after President Reagan, but nevertheless, those walls, you know, Mr. Gorbachev, tear down these walls. They actually did. And we were able to defeat and destroy without firing shots the Soviet Union, which now obviously Vladimir Putin wants to bring the band together and try to get them all back together.

We perhaps have never faced an adversary, though, like China. China has a perseverance and an ability that is perhaps one of the biggest foes that we have ever yet faced.

And for those of you that think that, oh, well, hey, we just need to be softer, we just need to be kinder, we just need to allow more Americanism into China, it ain't working that way, folks. You gotta talk the language of those people, and that comes through strength, it comes through military might, it comes from not backing down,

And I still can't get over how the whole Nancy Pelosi thing was dealt with. You couldn't get the president and Nancy Pelosi on the same page at the same time? Like, seriously? Like, how hard? She's the Speaker of the United States of America. He's the President of the United States of America. They've known each other for decades. They're both in the Democratic Party, and they couldn't communicate on that? I think that looks so bad domestically, but it looked really bad on the world stage.

And I just I still don't understand. It's been weeks, but I still don't understand why that became such a problem. But during that whole time, I think there's been a lot of quietness about are there about Iran? You know, they want the Iran nuclear deal to be pieced back together. But I'm telling you, folks, this is a scary thing to me because it was never one thing.

plan that was going to allow the United States or independents to go out there and actually verify that Iran was not developing a nuclear weapon. They want death and destruction in the United States. They want death and destruction to Israel. They want to dominate in the world. And they believe that having a nuclear bomb and using a nuclear bomb would actually allow them to do that. And I

I worry about that. So what is the game plan to deal with Iran? I don't think the Biden-Harris administration has one. I really don't. And it scares me that they don't have a game plan to do that. And they aren't going to take a...

They're just not going to get there without an actual game plan to do it. So that's my take on the news. It's kind of a deeper thought. You have to kind of really, foreign policy is very difficult. But when you have somebody like Joe Biden, who's not very engaged, you have Kamala Harris with no experience, certainly almost no experience internationally. That is a recipe that is not good for the United States of America. And that's my take on it.

All right, time to bring on the stupid because you know what? There's always somebody doing something stupid somewhere. And, of course, we're going back to Florida. We like to talk a lot about Florida man. Florida man tends to win the day in terms of stupid. I was highlighted this by a friend of mine, Jennifer Scott. She talked about Florida man. And sure enough, more news articles start with a Florida man. So I'm going back to thesmokinggun.com. This is dated of July 27th.

The headline is, Cops. Man drove Walmart scooter while drunk. Floridian 39 facing DUI counts after in-store jaunt. July 27th. A Florida man is behind bars on DUI charges for allegedly drunk driving a motorized scooter inside a Walmart where he nearly struck shoppers and crashed into shelves and merchandise displays.

Aaron Gregory, 39, was busted around 10 a.m. on a Sunday morning inside a Walmart in Melbourne, a city about 65 miles south of Orlando. Officers were summoned to the storage, quote, referenced to an intoxicated male on a motorized scooter. It goes on from there, folks, but you know what? If you're drunk at 10 a.m. on a Sunday morning, if...

And you're at a Walmart driving a motorized scooter, running into people, getting close to running into people and maybe hitting some shelves. Yeah, this one's going to be on the highlight reel for doing something stupid. Florida man, once again, wins the day. Don't be driving drunk a scooter at Walmart, particularly on a Sunday morning. That's my advice. And that is the stupid.

All right. Time to bring on Charlie Kirk. Charlie is absolutely amazing. He has done so much for the conservative movement and to teach younger people how to think. You know, it spans the whole age gambit. It's not just locked into just, you know, one particular age group.

But what he's done with young people, I'm just telling you, it's just Turning Point USA has really fundamentally changed the game. Liberals don't know how to deal with it. It's blowing their minds. They're organized in like hundreds of campuses across the country. And if you go and listen to Charlie Kirk online and in these videos and social media, he

I think we're going to have a fascinating discussion. I'd like to learn more about how he did it and what he did and why he put it all together. So let's give a call to Charlie Kirk. Hello, Charlie Kirk. Hey, this is Jason Chaffetz. Thanks for picking up the line. I appreciate it. Of course, Jason. How are you, man? I'm doing well. And I can tell you're a big fan of going to spend a lot of money, like hundreds of thousands of dollars to go to school.

to go to college. And I wanted to talk about that a little bit about what you're doing in life. And but congratulations on this new book you got. Well, thank you, Jason. I will say a joke that only you will understand. I prefer cruise ships over college. There we go. That that I understand. And I think my wife and your wife understand. But other than that, yes, we will move along. Yeah.

Exactly. You got a fascinating story. I mean, I have more people come up to me and say, I just love Charlie. It just...

I love how you get up on it. I'm telling you, I watched, I don't know how many videos of you standing and talking to flaming liberals about the world, about history. And I just love your, come on, bring it on. You throw anything at me, I'll answer your question. And it takes some, it takes some, you know, backbone to do that. Where'd you get that? Where'd that come from?

Well, you're very kind. Thank you. And I suppose we have a reputation for that now. So, yeah, I started Turning Point 10 years ago. Why? Why? Like, why did you start it? It was kind of not by accident, but it's kind of stumbled into it. Originally was going to go to West Point. Didn't get in.

and ended up being the best thing that never happened to me, a variety of levels. And I said, you know, I'm going to take a gap year before I enroll in college. Baylor University was my backup. And it's become a gap decade now of 10 years of building and

advocating for conservative ideas on high school and college campuses across the country. And it's just grown tremendously. I've always felt convicted of my beliefs. And I realized early on that we as conservatives are definitely in the ideological and philosophical minority amongst young people. And that the way to go about persuasion is we have to go right into the fire.

So I've spoke at every campus you could imagine from Berkeley to Brown to Stanford to a lot of Midwest schools, University of Michigan, University of Iowa. And so, yeah, I've always kind of been willing to be confrontational yet respectful. I don't think.

maybe rarely you'll see me raise my voice if I really get fired up about something, but usually it's a good back and forth. Usually they're the ones raising their voice. But no, I appreciate the kind words and our videos have been viewed hundreds of millions of times of just going to college campuses. And it's been a lot of fun. And we got some more planned for this semester. No, I think you have been very respectful. In fact, you're usually the one saying, Hey, let it, let, let, let this person ask their question.

Let it fully get out, you know, without letting somebody just go on and on and on and on with, you know, giving some speech, but get to the heart of the question and then allowing you to respond, which usually puts them in this position of,

I just dumbfounded and not being able to keep up with you on your history, but kind of give us the sketch of little Charlie growing up. Like what was life like? Where'd you grow up? And kind of what instilled that, that core conservativism that is obviously, you know, just part of your being.

Yeah, so I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, went to Wheeling High School, gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade. Faith is a big part of my life and always loved the country. And as I got into sixth grade, seventh grade, eighth grade, I started to kind of come across in public school, not so subtle indoctrination sessions of, oh, America's not that great of a country and we have to radically change the capitalist system. And I clumsily tried to defend conservative ideas. But

I definitely realized I have a lot of studying to do, a lot of research to do. And it was just so sad is that over the last 10 years, everything has become so political. It just wasn't that political growing up, right? You had to really kind of be, you have to be attuned to it, if you will. I've always had a passion for politics.

the country and for American history. And so naturally, I found these ideas to be interesting and compelling. I always loved free markets. I always loved the Constitution. I loved the American founding. And all those things, I think, naturally guided me in a conservative direction. Came across Milton Friedman when I was a sophomore in high school, had a profound impact on my thinking, especially on economics.

came across some phenomenal thinkers on American history, and I became an outspoken conservative. And sophomore, junior of high school, started volunteering for local campaigns, knocked on over 100,000 doors for then-Congressman Mark Kirk. You would remember that name. And then Senator Mark Kirk, unfortunately, became kind of more of a moderate than I would have liked. By the way, no relation between Congressmen

Congressman and Senator Kirk and I, but I got a lot of exposure to grassroots politics. I worked on Congressman Dold's campaign. That's Dold the D, not any other guy. I think. Yeah. Yep. He was a good man. And again, a little more moderate than my taste, but he was in the North shore of Chicago and a D plus seven seat and held it for quite a while and in a tough, tough race there. So that was kind of my beginning introduction to politics and,

And then started Turning Point USA in 2012 after not getting into West Point just because I saw that young people I don't think were properly hearing the conservative message.

And it's been an amazing journey since then. But yeah, I've always had a passion for this. You know, people say, hey, Charlie, you know, where did you get your start? I just as long as I can remember, I've always cared about these things and come from a family of a lot of very proud patriots. And so this was we were always talking about how beautiful the country America was, how thankful we are to be Americans, how the Lord has blessed us to live in this nation. And I believe all of that played a major role into my now activism and leadership of Turning Point USA.

You're listening to Jason in the House. We'll be back with more of my conversation with Charlie Kirk right after this. Fox News Radio On Demand on the Fox News app. Download the app and just click listen. When you swipe left, you can listen to your favorite Fox News talk shows live. Swipe right for the latest Fox News Radio newscasts on demand. Fox News Radio on the Fox News app. Download it today. So when you were a little kid, were you like, were you into sports? Were you into...

I mean... Oh, yeah. Big time. What were you playing? Well, so I always joke around where people say, you know, I'm going to follow my passion and my heart. I say, yeah, that's not a great idea. You should follow your skill that you're also passionate about, two totally different things. Because if I was following my passion, I would be a Division II football coach right now. I love football more than almost anything else in the world. I'm just...

not that good at it, right? I could throw a football super far. You probably saw a relief factor add or two on that. Yes. I love sports. I love basketball. I love football. It's just not the thing I'm best at. It's just not. And I think it's important for people to kind of be honest with that. But I am good at talking. I'm good at speaking, good at making arguments, good at putting things together in the current news and events. And I also have a passion for that. But yeah, I grew up playing every sport you can imagine. When did you figure that out? But what did...

You know, that doesn't come on. That doesn't happen to just everybody. You kind of figure that out and then you start doing things that maybe others aren't doing. You're like, wow, that's working well for me. I enjoy it and I'm actually pretty good at it. What would there's something in you when you're seven years old that happened or something?

How did you source that or figure it out? I mean, yeah, the sports thing, you never really know. In high school, I took sports super seriously, right? Football and basketball. I was also an Eagle Scout and did all those sorts of different things. And, you know, when you get to be a junior or senior, you're like, yeah, maybe I'm not going to become Peyton Manning, right? So you just kind of,

That's a tough realization at times for a kid where you dedicate your life so much to a certain trade and practice. But, you know, the kind of speaking and the politics thing, it just became it just came so naturally to me. And by the time I was a junior or senior, I was spending almost all my free time caring and thinking about these things. And

By the way, the conservative movement, in my personal opinion, in 2012, when I really came onto the scene, was nowhere near as built out as it is today. Only to think about podcasting was not really around. YouTube channels were just starting to pop up, right? We had Fox News and God bless Sean Hannity and at the time Bill O'Reilly, who were kind of holding down the fort on cable TV. Rush Limbaugh and Mark Levin played a huge impact. But

that was about it, Jason. It wasn't this unbelievably diverse conservative movement where you have turning point events and you have podcasts like yours and you have social media. For example, Twitter was just coming along and Instagram wasn't a thing and Facebook. And so there just wasn't that many resources available to be able to navigate the very liberal world. And I think that's one of the reasons why we're seeing the ranks of Turning Point USA grow and more young conservatives speak out. It's just

The buffet of options for a young conservative now is far greater than it was when I was in high school. Yeah, you know, I first... I ran for office in 2008. And you're right. I mean, I would watch...

Bill O'Reilly and I'd watch Sean Hannity and how to think through an issue. Like, all right, what's the right way to think about this? And it made such total sense to me. But you're right. You couldn't just go online or you couldn't go listen to a podcast. And if you didn't catch the radio at just the right time, then you would miss a Sean Hannity kind of talking, spending 10 minutes diving a little deeper into the issue. And so-

I think you saw that void and just filled it in a big way. So again, let's go back to the genesis of Turning Point because it's one thing. Okay, oh, great. I didn't get into West Point. So in football, yeah, that really isn't going to work out. But there had to be something where you said,

this is what we need. How did you see that? And how did you decide? And then it takes some resources to put it together, right? So how did that all come about? Yeah, it would not have been possible without mentors, truly. I mean, I started speaking at local Tea Party gatherings in the summer of 2011, just purely out of passion. And I reached out to a local Tea Party guy I met at a football event. Long story. We were doing a football fundraiser in Arlington Heights, and he ran the Arlington Heights Tea Party. And

his name is Art Ellingson and I reached out to him and uh he was like yeah come speak at my tea party meeting and I just kind of spoke about young people and why we got to stop borrowing all this money and debts and deficits and I really enjoyed it I had a super fun time I was like wow and then people like hey you're kind of good at this thing so intersection of passion and skill and I had some phenomenal mentors one of which was Bill Montgomery 72 years old at the time uh ended up being our first board member at Turning Point USA recently passed away unfortunately

and honestly without mentors i wouldn't have been able to do what we do at turning point usa at all um it was a group of you know 70 75 year old men and women that gave us money and mentorship and support largely from the chicagoland area i don't think that's a coincidence um not because of the politics but i think chicago over the last 40 50 years to a lesser extent now have produced some of the most rugged and remarkable business stories um i'm just a big fan of the midwest and um just what it produces i'm not a slight at other parts of the country i just

happened to love the Midwest and kind of the culture there. And so they just believed in me. They're like, yeah, you could change the world of this organization. And mind you, Jason, I didn't have this big vision. I mean, I didn't know how to open a checking account, right? I didn't know what a debit versus a credit. I didn't know payroll. I didn't know how to do an expense report, but I got the right mentors to help me through that. But I did know how to talk. I knew how to convince. I knew how to persuade, which was definitely just kind of a natural gift. I think I had the ability to communicate, to be able to put ideas together. Uh,

Some people are phenomenal writers. Other people can play the violin really well. You know, I just happen to be able to like, hey, Charlie, riff on this for an hour. OK, it just kind of comes naturally. And then you connect that with a work ethic that is definitely that Midwestern work ethic, which is once I started Turning Point USA and I still live this out, I said, no one's going to outwork me. You might be smarter than me, maybe more talented than me, but I will put more hours in than you. And that will make a difference because when hard work beats talent, when talent fails to work hard.

Yeah, no, I think that's absolutely right. And your grasp of the history and the foundation of the nation and some of these things are they, I see some of these liberals trying to recreate or, or,

or refabricate, if you will, our history and our nation, where we came from. And I think some of my favorite videos of you have been when you just said, no, let's actually talk about the foundation of this nation and what our founders were actually thinking about. And I just love it. And that comes with hard work, but it also comes with passion, right? You got to, you know, focus determines reality. And if you have the passion for it, there's no reason why you can't be that person. So

Help me answer this question because I get this question all the time. You know, people say in their own communities, they say, how do I, what can I do? You know, I'm just this person in this neighborhood. What can I do to make the difference? Because you have a forum, you've got a platform, you created it. I get this wonderful platform with Fox News and all that. But the average person, what can they do to make a difference in their own neighborhood? Yeah.

Yeah, you always can do something, right, Jason? I mean, if I would have allowed cynicism to soak in, you're right. I was just an 18-year-old. I had no money, no connections, no idea what I was doing. I had no Twitter followers. I had no Facebook followers. I had nothing. And by the way, Jason, I just, you know, I have a face for radio. I'm not, you know, overly funny, but I worked and I did something, right?

everybody could do this i'd say this all the time there's not anything exceptional except the lord's blessing on turning point usa and the hours we put in and the lord putting mentors in front of me i'm not saying everyone is going to do this but boy is there something you could do and it might not be a leadership role it might be a following role right uh it might be you supporting the fighters but you know i just i just want to encourage people here that are listening

What I did at Turning Point USA, you know, at the time, if I would have allowed myself to believe that what I did did not matter, then...

Then the no exaggeration, tens of millions of people we've impacted, Jason, would not have been impacted. Right. And the hundreds of thousands of students that have come through our ranks and attended our events and been trained by us and been touched by our our work, it just wouldn't have happened. And so I understand the sentiment because it could feel overwhelming. But I do think there's something special about the Americana can do it spirit.

Maybe I was too youthfully naive to see anything different, but I'll tell you, Jason, from the beginning, there were,

so many naysayers. Oh, Charlie, this young thing has been done before. What are you doing? Pat me on the head. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I mean, even, you know, it came in kind of a couple chapters. First, it was come on, Charlie, you're wasting your time. And then like in 15, 16, 17, there was the establishment conservative groups that attacked us very forcefully because they realized we were getting momentum. And now, you know, that doesn't happen as much

just kind of a scale and volume. We're kind of hard to ignore and what we've been blessed to do. But yeah, look, Jason, just to say, though, there were plenty of people that told me, Charlie, you're never going to make a big difference. Just go to college, get your degree, go get a nice job. Stop this change the world business. And praise God, I had people around me, mentors in their 70s. Like, you know what? You actually can change the world.

And I think that's so special about America. I don't think other countries have that sort of attitude always. I don't. And so Turning Point USA is truly a uniquely American story. It really is. And you're right. There are people everywhere that can tell you to think small and to go small. And the difference is having that vision and that opportunity. But not going for the gusto, you know, on the first drive. It's like, I don't know if you play golf, but...

but, you know, there's a saying about if you over hit it, the ball doesn't go anywhere, right? Just a nice, smooth stroke just puts you down the fairway, gets you closer where you want to go, and then the repetition of that and learning from it, it's just there's so many –

Okay, so you're going along, but now you started to write books. Congratulations. I mean, you already had a very, very successful book. But tell us about The College Scam because you've written this new book, The College Scam, How America's Universities Are Bankrupting and Brainwashing Away the Future of America's Youth. Tell us, I kind of get the sense of how you feel about this, but tell us what we're going to learn in this book.

Yeah, my favorite interview, I think it was the Duffies. They said, Charlie, tell us how you really feel. You know, just kind of in a typical turning point style. I just kind of get straight to the point. Nothing bothers me more than just kind of vanilla framing, especially if you have deeply held beliefs about it. Right. Yeah. This book is really personal to me and it's written unlike any other book.

I've written before. I've written four books. The last one, it was number one on Amazon and a New York Times bestseller, which we were really proud of. And the president did an amazing job. And Fox really heavily promoted it, which we were super thankful for. That was called The MAGA Doctrine. But that book was completely different than this. That was a openly political book.

This is not this book is not political at all. It's cultural. And also that other book, I sought to explain Donald Trump's view to people that supported Trump or that wanted to support Trump. What he's doing. This is about persuasion. This book, Jason, is all about trying to convince people that I know a majority of which when they start reading the book will not agree with me. So I thought to myself in tabulating this book, OK, I think college is a scam. I think it's a rip off. How would I go about persuading an audience?

And so where is the highest stakes persuasion game that happens in the country? The courtroom, right? The courtroom is where you have a prosecutor who obviously has a certain opinion and has facts. And then you have a jury that is unbiased, supposed to be unbiased. They listen to the facts and they issue a verdict. And it's not the prosecutor's hands. It's in the jury's hands.

And so I go after this book as if I am the prosecutor and you, the reader, are the jury. It's a 10 count indictment as if it's 10 different charges all about how colleges don't educate the way you think they do. They become so obscenely rich. Universities have at taxpayers expense. They're so overpriced. They're running a scam. Literally, I define what a scam is. And so I go through this in kind of a persuasive way. I believe it's very convincing. It has 35 pages of footnotes.

At the end of the book, I had to delay publication. I delayed publication a year and a half because I felt we didn't do enough research. I said, you know what? That makes sense to me, but let's go deeper. So we did FOIA requests. We did department education searches. Everything is cited thoroughly because I knew my detractors were going to say, where'd you get that number from? And what do you mean? And not just detractors, by the way, from the left.

people from the right that still believe college is this wonderful thing. And so, you know, we go through it in great detail. We also go through the potential counter arguments, some of which are silly and baseless, some of which I think there are some legitimately good counter arguments to my to my argument of which I

think I respond to rather forcefully and adequately. So anyway, that's a little bit about the book. It's written for everybody. It's written for people that already agree with me. I think it will reaffirm your argument. But honestly, most people don't agree with me. Most people think college is still something that's necessary. I think it is not necessary for the vast majority of young people. I believe 80 to 85 percent of people that are in college should not be going to college. And I believe it's a scam. And I make the argument in the book, the college scam. People can find it at college scam dot com.

You're listening to Jason in the house. We'll be back right after this. So you do believe though, there is some room for college. I mean, right. If you're going to become an attorney, if you're going to become, go to medical school, right. Um, to become a doctor, um,

Are you opposed to that or what's the thesis here on maybe some of those specifics? So let's go through a couple of numbers. Right. So people that are studying what I consider to be necessary credentialed careers make up about eight to 10 percent of all college students.

So and I totally agree. If you want to become a lawyer or a doctor or a nurse or even a high level of engineering, then yes, college is for you. But the vast majority of people in college, 50 to 60 percent are in the humanities. Yeah. So it's a dance class or. Yes, precisely. Yes. Now let's talk about some other numbers that make people jaws drop. So 40 percent of people that enter college will not graduate. They drop out 40 percent.

That alone shows that we have way too many people going to college. If a business only had a 40% success rate, 60% success rate, whether it be a hotel, like, yeah, you know, there's a 60% chance I'll hold your room or a restaurant. Like you're a scam. Like what? Are you kidding me?

Right. So that's one. And then the other on the back end that if you graduate, which again, there's no guarantee you do. And the chances are worse than you could imagine, as I just articulated. If you graduate, 41 percent of people that end up graduating, they get a job if they get a job in a university.

in a career or a field that does not require a college degree. For example, you go to Arizona State University, you study North African lesbian poetry, and then you end up becoming a receptionist that didn't require a college degree in the first place. And then on top of that, Jason, there's a lot, I think it's right between 20 to 25% on top of that of people that end up finding jobs in a different field than what they studied. For example, I studied economics and now I'm into computer science.

And so, yes, there is a need in our society for sure for the credentials. Right. I want my brain surgeon to have learned the best possible. Of course.

But explain to me the 70 percent of people that are doing sociology or communications, gender studies, history, which is not even history degree. And I'll even say, though, that even if you're going to become a lawyer or a doctor, is that you must know, though, that you have to effectively navigate an institution that is largely rigged against you. Right. And so as I admit that, yes, we do need people at the highest competency level with the most proficiency, obviously proficiently.

then are you going to be able to do it in a cost-effective way? Are you going to be some form of a education graduated indentured servant by the time you're 55 years old, still paying off a 200,000 student loan debt, right? Are you going to be filled with bad ideas to learn there is no beauty, goodness, and truth? So that's the other things that are also incorporated in that. So anyway, yes, I admit that for some people, college is right, but the numbers blow people away when you realize the actual small percentage of people that enter college that are actually going after things that truly do require a college degree.

Yeah. You know, our state legislature actually in Utah is actually, there've been some real champions out there to say, hey, look, why are we funding and why are the taxpayers having to pay for

so much money for the degrees for nowhere. I mean, they lead to nowhere. There's no job at the end of this rainbow. And we're going to spend all this taxpayer money supplementing it. These kids are going to go into all this debt. And then there's no job for them at the end of the day. That's right. That's the degrees to know. How do you feel about the trade schools?

Big fan. Trade schools have largely been immune to the woke idea pathogens, not all of them, but most of them. And trade schools, I differentiate from four-year college. Now, mind you, you called it a trade school, not a college, because it actually is, right? So it's a technical difference. That's really important. We need way more trade schools. And so, for example, if you learn to code in eight weeks, I believe you're way better prepared

for the 21st century job market than going to Brown and studying, you know, lesbian dance theory, whatever it is, right? I mean, these are not exaggerations of things they study. And by the way, we have a whole chapter on the wackiest courses that would make your job. Oh, really? One of my favorites is how to watch television. It's one of my favorite courses that is being offered. Oh, it's just. But yes, of course, trade schools. So I want to be very clear. I'm pro-education. That's one of the main reasons why I'm so against college is because they're not doing their job.

And by the way, you could judge a tree by the fruit it produces. So the Fortune 100 CEOs were polled of whether or not they're impressed or not impressed or very concerned about

college graduates and their ability to speak and their vocabulary and their work ethic, over 80% of these Fortune 100 CEOs said they're extremely concerned and disappointed at what these universities are creating. They said they're producing, I should say, that the recent college grads have lower work ethic. They're not as prepared to go take a job, that they have to invest millions of dollars a month into new job training. So they get these college grads from maybe University of Utah or from University of Nevada, Las Vegas, and they're

And they have to spend millions of dollars training the college grads to actually do the job that college was supposed to train them to do. And so and these are the Fortune 100 CEOs that were pulled. And so you see this all together. You say, what is the value proposition here? And I believe it's shaky at best. Yeah, I know there's.

It's so true. Like when I've talked to employers along the way and say, what do you really need? They said, gosh, we just need people that can write. It's amazing. They get through all the way through college and they can't write. Like there's basic financial literacy. They can't balance a checkbook. And yet they've gone through this college degree and they get out there and they don't even know

And so it is stunning. Look, congratulations on this book. I think it's going to do so, so well. And I think you're, again, hitting the nail on the head. And before we wrap up this podcast, Charlie, I do these rapid questions to kind of get to know the guests a little bit better. I hope you're ready for it. Let's do it. All right. The first concert you attended. Oh, boy. Yeah.

It was probably a classical music concert at Ravinia in the suburbs of Chicago. All your Chicago listeners will know it well. All right. What was your high school mascot? The Wildcats. Because there were a lot of Wildcats in Chicago. That's good. Yeah, not so much.

Favorite vegetable? Broccoli. Well, that is healthy. And hats off to you because you'd be amazed how many people I interview that can't name a vegetable. So that was really... Oh, I eat vegetables all the time. Cucumbers too. I love cucumbers. Good for you. Did you have a pet growing up? I did. A dog named Winston. Beautiful dog. What kind of dog? German short-haired pointer. Oh, nice. Life's most embarrassing moment?

Most embarrassing moment? Oh, I can't share that on air. That's the one we want to hear about, of course. Yeah, I mean, one of the most embarrassing is growing up and forgetting which side I was supposed to score a basket on. Oh, that would not be good because usually there's an audience involved and teammates that are maybe a little frustrated. Yeah. All right.

Um, you, your wife, you call up and you say, Hey honey, guess what? Uh, we've got somebody coming over for dinner tonight. Um, let's, let's, uh, let's make it special. Who's the one person you would want to have over dead or alive? Anybody in history? Who, who would that be? That person that you want to have person? Yeah. Oh man. Um, as, as, as unrealistic. I mean, I'm a huge Churchill fan. I've read, I've read so much of what he has published. Um,

That would be just amazing. So I'd have to go with Winston Churchill. Good answer. Good answer. Unique talent nobody knows about. Unique talent. I can say almost any word backwards instantaneously. Really? All right. I'm going to throw you one. Okay. Can we try it? Can we try it? Sure. As long as it's not too big. No, no. Source. Source. Echoros.

That's pretty good. I'm going to give you one more. This one's pretty easy. Valid. Deleve. That's pretty good. Like my wife can read almost anything upside down, just smooth as can be. She just learned to do that when she was a little kid. She just reads upside down, and that's one of her talents. Anyway, pineapple on pizza. Yes or no? Pineapple, yes. Depends on the day, but I do like pineapple on pizza. It's very strong.

You don't put a wet fruit on pizza, but all right. It's a great contrast. That's the only thing I think I've disagreed with with you so far. So best advice you ever got? Best advice I ever got was don't go to college.

That's a good answer. And if you weren't doing this, what would you be doing? If you never kind of found the political thing and turning point. I would be coaching college football. No question. Offense, defense, special teams? What would you be coaching? I'd be an offensive coordinator, quarterbacks coach. And we'd put up 75 points a game. We'd go for it on fourth all the time. We'd be super aggressive, no huddle. It would be amazing. There is that theory that says don't ever punt. No, I got it all figured out. It's less than fourth and five. You go for it.

Again, football is a gift from the heavens. And my dream job would be the offensive coordinator for like a legit college team for one season. We put up 75 points a game and then I'd retire. You know, I was actually a place kicker at BYU. And I was actually going to go to Arizona State. And then Darrell Rodgers...

became the head coach of the Detroit Lions. And they said, hey, Arizona State's not going to honor the scholarship, but I'll help you get somewhere. And he got me to BYU. Totally changed the trajectory of my life. I was all planning. I had accepted an offer from Arizona State to be their place kicker. That's amazing. Back in the Louis and Day house. I didn't know you were a place kicker. Yeah, I grew up playing soccer. Anyway, it changed my life. A lot of pressure. Last big question. Favorite childhood toy?

Favorite childhood toy? Oh, I don't. I was a big pots and pans guy. Pots and pans? Like real pots and pans? Yeah, just like banging on them like drums. Banging on them like drums. That makes a lot of sense. You've made a lot of noise in a lot of different areas. There you go. There's something to that along the way. Congratulations on the new book. I think that's...

Again, the book is called The College Scam, How America's Universities Are Bankrupting and Brainwashing Away the Future of America's Youth. It's by Charlie Kirk. And Charlie, you're affecting and influencing a lot of people. And you know what? You're challenging people to think through, think through things for themselves and make their own decisions.

And that's a huge value to this country. I don't expect everybody to agree with me or you, but to think it through and actually have a conservative choice in a viewpoint is really, really a great value. Can't thank you enough for what you're doing. Thank you, Jason. God bless you. You're a great friend. Thanks so much.

All right. I can't thank Charlie enough for his time and what he's doing. You know, way to stand up, actually make a difference, say, you know what, I'm just going to go in with both feet. And the other thing is that benefactor that he talked about, the person who stood up and said, you know, hey, I'm in my 70s. I'm going to mentor and I put my money behind it and see if he can't make a go of it and make a fundamental change in how this country operates.

And there have been several people who've donated not just their money, but also their time in order to get some things done. And we ought to say thanks and give a tip of the hat. I don't know exactly who these people are, but they make a big, big difference in how the world operates. And I just, I think it's so, so important. So thanks again for listening to this podcast. Hoping you can rate it. We could use your help there and subscribe to it. Look through the

to the library of interviews that we have done. You can also go over to foxnewspodcast.com. I think you'll find some other podcasts that you very well might like. But please like it, rate it, review it, subscribe to it, and we'll be back with more next week. I'm Jason Chaffetz, and this has been Jason in the House.

The Fox News Rundown. A contrast of perspectives you won't hear anywhere else. Your daily dose of news twice a day. Featuring insight from top newsmakers, reporters, and Fox News contributors. Listen and subscribe now by going to foxnewspodcasts.com.