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You know that trend about shopping only local produce? I didn't get it until I tried California avocados. They're picked at the peak of each season, so you know they're fresh. But they're not just fresh. They're fresh, ripe, and delicious. And I think it's because they're grown right here in California. That means grove to table. Literally. That's why the best avocados have California in them. California avocados. Now in season.
As if the McCrispy couldn't get any better, Bacon and Ranch just entered the chat. The Bacon Ranch McCrispy. Available at participating McDonald's for a limited time. Ba-da-ba-ba-ba. Do you still have those bat wings? Bat wings? I thought you told me, like, your vagina, you had those, like... So you still have the meat flaps. Ha-ha-ha-ha.
Okay, do the clapping. Do the clapping before this takes a sinister turn. One, two, three. That sucked. You always say it sucks. One, two, three.
Why do you have to count before you do it? She's mixing it up. I'm just so musically talented. Just move you to Hollywood. Wait, you guys. You look like you're going to a funeral. Both of you. We are going to a funeral. It's called the death of our podcast. We're only a few episodes in and we're already mourning and grieving. It's imminent. It's imminent destruction.
So thank you for pointing that out. Pumps, what have you had it with this week? I've had it with people that put other people on dating sites. That's what I've had it with. We would like to welcome you to I've Had It, a podcast about positivity.
And petty grievances. And sharing light. Episode after episode of unmitigated rage over petty bullshit. The pettier the crime, the more irate we are. The more what? Irate. I thought you said irate.
irate. Right. This is why we are wearing all black today. So I have something that I know is going to get you wound up like a cheap clock. Oh God, I can't wait. What is it? Men who skirt the system. We've been talking about it for years. You introduced me to the concept about 18 years ago. Yes. About it is so unfair that men get to skirt the system. So why don't you
what skirting is because I found it quite humorous. Okay, so I'll tell the audience what I think it is. So, you know, we've all watched those nature shows with that British guy with that great voice. What's his name? Richard Attenborough. Richard Attenborough. You know the guy. And he's like...
You know, they're mating and they're breeding and she's looking for the alpha male gorilla. The females are competing over who is going to have the best sperm for her offspring. They're looking at physical, you know, components. They're going to help them perpetuate their line. Right? Right. So when it comes to our species, I've noticed there is a flaw in the system. Right.
I'll give you a prime example. Okay. Donald Trump, Melania Trump. Prime example. Right? But if he didn't have a lot of money, it would have never happened. Hence the skirting. Hence the topic.
I'll tell you what, you guys. I'm a crackerjack. She is, I mean, steel traps on both sides of the brain. You're going to have a future in podcasting. For sure. This is going to be our last episode. But so that's just a prime example. Here's another prime example. Men that are 70 that are dating a 25, 30-year-old. And because of Viagra, they are able to impregnate and have a whole new round of kids that
And a whole new family. You know what I think about when I say that? It's like, okay, she has to see him naked.
Yes. Like his old wrinkly ass. Right. Naked. Naked. I mean, that is just like makes you throw up in my mouth. And they are completely skirting the system because nowhere in nature would a woman choose a geriatric person to be the father of her offspring. The only reason our species does it because the one thing that trumps the physicality for a woman is
of this type, this type of woman, is a big bank account. Right. So these men are skirting the system
For two things. Number one, they have a lot of money in the bank. And number two, Viagra. Right. Viagra is the worst. I mean, honestly, for these women, it'd be a million times better. I agree. Because you know they're having to earn every penny. And you know that even though there's Viagra involved, if it's a 70-year-old dick, you know it doesn't end quickly. Right.
Oh, my God. I bet it's just awful. I bet it goes on for hours. Forever. You know that commercial that said if the erection lasts for four hours? Right. I'm like, that motherfucker would be dead before four hours ever came. I mean, there is no fucking way. So a 70, 80-year-old...
for four hours. Right. The ugliest gorilla getting the hottest female gorilla. Right. It doesn't happen. It does not happen. But a lot of women, sadly, that are not focused on having their own career and men, you know, exploit this. They're skirting. Right. Skirting. They're skirting the system. They're completely, this is not the natural flow of it.
So as you and I have talked about men that skirt the system for the longest time, I have always thought about these mail-order brides. Oh, yeah. Didn't you? I had an over-explainer that had a mail-order bride. It was oil money and lots of it. So he was rich. He was rich. And he went...
He weighed 600 pounds if he weighed an ounce. Like morbidly obese. Morbidly. Like take out the wall and get a crane fat. Morbidly obese, richer than shit. Richer than shit. Okay. Okay. Kind of a bugger, whatever. Maybe he didn't say a lot, but everything he said just gave me like chills. Just like creepy. Estimate of his age?
He would have been in his 50s probably. Okay. And never had kids, never been married for obvious reasons. And then he gets this bride from South America, I think. Did you ever see her? She was attractive. Younger, much younger. And a lot more attractive. Yes. Okay. So he's skirting. He's skirting. No doubt about it. And then he gets her pregnant. And I think they have one or two kids. Okay.
And I'm not kidding you. I had to ask, like, how does that happen? Like, if a dick's this big and your belly's this big, like, how does that happen? Like, physically. You do it on an incline. So, like. What do you mean? Like, the fat rolls, like, you, you know, on an incline. Like.
You incline down so the fat rolls down and then she can get on top. So he has to lie back. And incline backwards. Go backwards. The man is so fat that there's no way, it's just not possible that his penis could reach the vagina. Because the fat overflows to the penis. Right. It was like a double gut. It's not accessible. No, it's not accessible. I have a really important question. Right.
How did you find out this information? Well, I just asked. He kind of volunteered it. Like you do it on an incline. And I was like, okay, well that, I mean, that kind of enlightens. So he says you do it on an incline. Right. It's an incline. And I didn't get several more questions or details on that, but I figured it out. Like the fat rolls up. You crack the case. I crack the case. So they have the two kids and then there's a divorce. No, he dies. Luckily for her.
Yes, he ended up dying. So she got all the money. How did you know she was a mail order? Well, because she was from a foreign country and it like, he went over there, he came back with the wife.
We just assumed it was a mail order. Like I never said, did you mail order this? So again, you crack the case. I crack the case. Like you go to a foreign country, you come back with this young, beautiful wife. You're fat as a pig and you have money. I mean, it's not that big of a leap that it was a mail order thing. You are, I mean... Cracker Jack. The...
The prowess of your deduction skills is unbelievable. And that was before the internet. It's snail mail. I figured it out just from U.S. Postal Service. You backed it. You figured out about the incline. Right. Which I thought that was... With a direct question, which I'm really kind of proud of you for that. Well, I skirted around it enough that he volunteered it. And then I just vividly remember the incline in my mind in that moment. Like, oh, God, that would be awful. So...
And I think by all accounts, she was lovely. You and I watched this documentary yesterday about mail-order brides. And a lot of the men that were featured in the documentary didn't appear to be rich. Interestingly enough, yes. I'm wondering if like, I mean, obviously, and we're going to have our guest on shortly and we'll ask him about this. If, you know,
middle class American for some of these women that they get is for them, you know, would be considered really wealthy. And I would assume so. I would assume that would have to be the case. Let me ask you this. Would you ever consider mail order husbands? Let me think about that. No. Would you like to get on the mail order husband website and browse around? No.
I probably would. I mean, I like my friends that have Bumble and stuff. I'll look at that. Just kind of out of interest. Yeah. I mean, I do. It is interesting that mail order. I mean, I remember in the 80s by snail mail hearing about mail order brides. And then now with the Internet, it makes it so easy. I find it fascinating that these men are skirting the system like they are. And like your guy that's morbidly obese. Yeah.
When I have to get naked or think about being sexual, I want to feel and look good. But for these men, they just take the clothes off and plop down on an incline and let's go. Right? Right. There's just no self-consciousness. It doesn't appear. Right. If I got on a website and there's like a Brad Pitt lookalike, I'm not going to immediately think, oh, he's going to like me. He's 20 years younger.
And he's got a rock hard body and he's great looking. So obviously I'm the candidate for him. You know, there has to be some self-awareness about what you're bringing to the table. Right. I'm sure he probably in his mind thought he was rescuing her from something bad in her home country.
I mean, I don't know that, but I would assume he felt like that. But I also think you get into the, if you're mail order writing it, there's an ownership thing that creeps me out on that. Yes. Like it's a possession. It goes from a person to a possession or that they owe you because you brought them to the United States. And here's what kind of creeps me out. It's like you, this, these women are so vulnerable, obviously. Correct. To be on a mail order website. I mean, you're talking about really, really vulnerable, marginalized women. Right.
And these men live in a country that has 340 million people in it, which would be the United States of America. Right. No shortage of human beings here. And so they're going and retrieving these women and bringing them back. And just from the onset, my gut tells me these men probably are pretty fucked up. Right.
No psychiatry degree needed. I'm just thinking, you know, these men are probably sitting around looking at porn their whole fucking lives. That's why they're not dating in their own country. So by the time they get these women, can you imagine?
what these women have to go through. Is there a human trafficking kind of component to it, even though they're both adults? You and I watched this documentary in preparation for this episode. Right. And this is a documentary by Jonathan Narducci. And the title of his documentary is called Love Me. And why are you laughing at me? No, just the title of the documentary about male enterprises, Love Me. I think that's kind of funny. Yeah.
Okay. Jonathan Narducci is a commercial music video and documentary director and cinematographer. He is the director of the documentary, which we watched yesterday, called Love Me, about men searching for mail order brides overseas. I have so many questions. I can't wait to ask. So many questions. So without further ado, let's bring on Jonathan Narducci. Oh, there we go. Hi, Jonathan. Hey.
Hi. Hi, Jonathan. Can you guys hear me and everything okay? Yes. I'm Jennifer and this is Angie. Thanks for being here. Okay. So first of all, I want to say that we watched your documentary and I loved it. So interesting. It's really, really interesting because for years, I call Angie, her nickname is Pumps. So for years, we have always talked about men that skirt the system.
that if you think about other species out in the wild, you're never going to have the hottest gorilla going after the geriatric gorilla to breed. But in our species, men, by virtue of bank accounts or Viagra, are able to kind of skirt nature's desire for us to pick the best mate for ourselves.
Yeah, but I mean, a bank account is a good, you know, indication of somebody's ability to provide. Right. We've seen the documentary. If you will just summarize a few minutes, what your documentary is about and the men that you followed, and then we'll dive in with questions. So our audience kind of knows what the plot of your documentary is.
Yeah, sure. No problem. So about 10, yeah, 10 years ago, I pursued a documentary following men from the United States, uh, who went to Ukraine on what's called a love tour. Um,
And these love tours are basically, you know, like a, I don't know, like a vacation for single men to meet women that are also single in Ukraine. And so it's kind of like a modern mail order bribe.
we'd follow these men on their quest to meet women for the good, the bad and the ugly for the most part, not a lot of people connected or met women. And they have these things, which I think you're referring to. They're called, they're like social events where there's basically, you know, like,
10 to 20 women for every man there so it's kind of like this weird it's definitely skirting a normal system right it's like shooting fish in a barrel yeah yeah definitely especially with the the people participating it's it so the results were pretty interesting from our perspective in my perspective it was very very surreal and and kind of funny you know um
It also could be viewed as kind of sad, too. I mean, we were locked in. It is so good for those of you that haven't seen it. It's a great watch. What Jonathan is talking about is these men go over and they go to these parties and the ratio is way in the man's favor. So we have right out of the gates a bunch of questions.
So the women that arrive to the party, what are they told and are they paid to go to the party?
I don't believe that they're paid to go. I think so. You have to understand like in Ukraine, I would say the biggest tourism is this kind of international male tour, like really, right? Yeah. So like when you're walking in like the center of Kiev or any of these other cities that you go to, you'll see like advertisements for marriage agencies and
And they're just, it's a massive industry that's been set up and kind of facilitated in that country. Now, the reality is, is that it's a tourism thing. It's a tourist trap in a lot of ways. Right. It's not really part of the reality of what is happening.
actually happening from the female perspective. Like the company I worked with, um, was based in the United States. It's called a foreign affair. And, uh, they, um, they basically have affiliates is what they call them. So they hire local to each city companies that provide, um, you know, profiles of women, um, whether those profiles are accurate, real, or, you know,
where anything in between is, you know, up for debate. But basically, you know, they provide some kind of service to write the men and correspond. And that's where most of the money is exchanged. So that was interesting because I think his name was Bobby. Bobby, I thought the big reveal when he is messaging with this woman who he thinks is an Angelina Jolie lookalike. Lookalike.
And to our listener, this man describes himself. He says, let's face it, I'm a little on the heavier side.
And the woman that he's kind of pen-palling with email-wise is, I mean, she's very attractive. Stunning. Great body. And the photos of these women, I mean, they've got, I mean, banging bodies, no doubt about it. Very attractive. And they're really attractive. Yes. The women are hyper-sexualized for sure. So Bobby is totally, he's been emailing with this woman and he goes to Ukraine and he thinks that she's going to show up and she kind of stands him up
one night and he's kind of incredulous because he's like we've been emailing and then you reveal to the viewer that he's being charged for each email and has racked up a bill a bill of something like nine thousand dollars he's living in some kind of fantasy and right i mean i think to anyone that lives in a modern world even though this is 10 years ago there's still a skype you know what i mean he could easily if he actually had a connection with a human being they would have
Wanted to see each other. I mean, if you're, you know, for instance, if I'm, you know, online dating, the first thing I'll do is have a FaceTime with somebody. Right, right. You know, it's so, you know, in reality, it was a form of entertainment, a form of fantasy, some kind of world that he was able to live in where he was communicating with this image, this object. Right. And that's what a lot of what's going on, I think, is that there's a lot of objectification and kind
kind of taking the humanity out of the women that are there. Right. Just hyper-sexualized, beautiful women that want to marry these men. We pretty early on could tell that there was something not right about this process. So they're basically mining these photos of these women, creating profiles, and, you know, somebody's writing to them. Okay. Probably a bunch of men writing to like 10 dudes at a time. Right.
Right. Exactly. That's what I thought when Bobby was like, she was writing to me and I'm like, she's probably not writing to you, Bobby. I mean, that's what I was kind of saying. Or she's making money. So she's writing to you. What was the guy's name from Wisconsin? I think he was from the guy from Wisconsin and he makes a connection with this woman. Okay. So then he goes back to the United States and he gets his engagement ring and then he goes back to the Ukraine. Okay.
And he's like, something's off here. And then he says a loan shark and a cop showed up at the door and said that she owed the loan shark $4,000.
And I said, I don't have $4,000. And I said, well, we're going to take her to jail. How much do you have? And he said, a couple hundred. I have $200. So he gave him the $200. And then you flash to this guy back in Wisconsin, and he's still trying to crack the case. And it kind of quite hasn't come together for him that it was a racket. The loan shark, the cop, and his potential fiance were all in cahoots.
And I was so incredulous that he couldn't piece all of that together. Because I pieced it together immediately. Like, you're getting hustled. Like, this is a classic hustle. You just got hustled. But do you think it is like, they talk about love. And so do you think these men are, which is, this is the sad part of your documentary, where it tugs on a bunch of different emotions that you feel for the characters that you have in there. Do you think that they...
Like, of course, sex is a huge driving component for any man. Let's just face it. But do you think that they are looking for a long term connection? Yeah.
I mean, they might be, either way, they all feel some entitlement, right? Right. Agreed. I think that he did genuinely want a partner. I'm not sure that's the case with all of the men that I followed or all of the, certainly not all the men on the tour. The majority of them, you know, when I was going on my first tour, there's like, let's say there's 10 guys. I think there's usually 20 or 30. Like,
I would say on day one, on their way over, there's probably about eight out of 10 guys who are thinking they're going to go home with a engagement and a woman that they will love them for being who they are and what they are, right? And two guys of that 10 are probably on a sex tour. Okay. Under the guise of a marriage tour. Okay. You know, going straight to the hotel for prostitution, which is, by the way, everywhere. Yeah.
So it's not like Ukraine is obviously a sex tourist place as well. So marriage tourism, sex tourism, all of the things that are using women for their bodies. And so about after that first night and them going out, that paradigm shifts and they're
And there's maybe two guys out of the 10 on the first night left over that are still interested in meeting a woman. And I think Travis was one of those guys. And, you know, it took a long time to find those men that were actually genuinely interested in and didn't get like kind of allured by the sex. That's so easy to have. So these women are men.
are they having sex with these men after the socials or whatever? I think there's, I think there's probably some sex that happens at the socials. I think that mostly what happens is like, and talking about how women make money is probably through like little kind of hustles, I would say for the most part there, you know, we're talking about a country where they're, you know,
Women obviously don't make as much as men. There's not a great economy. There's a lot of things that are great about Ukraine, but there's a lot of things as far as like socioeconomic things, especially for women that make it really hard. And so,
if they just get a really nice dinner at a like really high end restaurant with champagne, that's a little hustle. If they go out and they buy them a computer or a bottle of perfume or a dress or whatever it is, that's a little hustle. The men in your documentary didn't appear by their homes because you filmed them in the United States too. They didn't look to be rich nor attractive. Yeah.
which is, I mean, there is, you know, there's one, you know, we tried to like show a variety of people, um, for example, um, Bobby, he, you know, he's probably fairly well off. I thought it was fascinating when like the,
The guy that's like the romance night liaison, he goes, these men that come over here, they're looking for women. And these women are family women. These aren't career women. That was a selling point, you know, that being a career woman was such a bad thing. For our audience that's listening, one of the guys finds love, brings his quote unquote mail order bride back to Texas.
and they get married. Do you think they were in love? To me, it seemed pretty obvious that it was like a relationship based on, you know, two people wanting to be married, probably to some degree, ambition from both their parts. Right. Ambition from Eric, the man, to have a woman that maybe has traditional values and is beautiful.
No, she was definitely, he outkicked his coverage for sure. Yeah. And ambition for Ina was, I got to say, it seemed to me pretty intelligent, but at the time I had gone back to San Antonio where they lived within three months, she was speaking English. So she's definitely like,
You know, an ambitious, really intelligent woman. You know, I can safely say they're not married anymore. Oh, plot twist. Four of the couples I followed ended up getting married and none of them are married anymore. As a woman, and when I watched it, I think about these men that you followed. And I think that they probably have, you know, social issues.
problems, you know, socializing with people. And I imagine that they probably lived a lifetime of watching a lot of porn. And then they get the hot, you know, tight ass, everything's completely banging girl. And as a woman, I imagine what that woman has to go through with someone that's not as attractive as she and it pains me.
As a woman, I see that she's like, look, I'm going to get out of here. I'm going to have to sleep with him, but I'm going to go to America. I'm going to get an education. And this was my journey, and this is what I'm going to have to do. I can respect it.
Yeah. I mean, and who knows if that's like what the intention was or if it was premeditated that way. It might've been something very different. It might've been like, wow, I get to go to America. Like, I think you have to realize like the women there are hyper sexually like objects and the men really don't.
try to do anything you know they're skirting the system jonathan these men are skirting this is their culture right so to you but so the skirting is cooked in the books yeah so to you and me it might be skirting a system or institutionalized skirting cultural and institutional and uh you know
Things of all kinds of nature. And, you know, who knows? Things change. And, you know, I think probably you don't have a kid with somebody if you don't have to, you know. Unless you live in Oklahoma where we live and they just did a total abortion ban. So people have to have kids all the time here. Oh, yeah. And so I think that she probably did put her best foot forward and, you know, ultimately, yeah.
As she became more aware of what's in America and maybe her value and her intelligence and her beauty and those things might have not been aligned with what she was seeing on the other side. And I could also say that she might have figured out that he might have been skirting the system after being Americanized for a bit. Yeah.
Definitely. You know, she might have been like, I'm pretty hot. I'm tall, I'm gorgeous. Keeping everything tight. And so you're kind of answering the, you know, or rebooting what you're saying by skirting the system. Who's skirting the system? They are. Ultimately, the women who come over and end up becoming successful and ultimately raising their own lifestyle are the ones skirting the system. The men end up being.
thinking that they're going to get a woman and it's the reverse skirt it's the reverse skirt so ultimately you know it's like you know these you know you can look at it either way but it's um you know i i think without a doubt the whole thing is kind of like marketing and
you know, this fictional belief that somehow because you're from a certain place that you're entitled or allowed or can have a genuine relationship with somebody who will like love you because of that. And that's just not the reality. Jenna Nilley told me that you're doing, working on a new one, The Ghosts of the Republic. So we'll watch that one and then we'll probably have you back on because you have just like- That's about surrogacy. I know, I love it. I know, it's so- Let's talk about skirting the system. Totally skirting the system.
a whole new skirt Jonathan thank you so much I'm a big big fan of your work I'm going to watch Ghost of the Republic soon but thank you so much alright bye Jonathan bye Jonathan thank you bye bye bye hey we're not finished with the podcast sorry sorry sorry for the sake just because he leaves we still have an audience that's listening to us I know I know I'm terrible oh I'm going to leave you with a quote I have a quote okay because we are so is it your quote or are you quoting someone else
Of course I'm quoting someone else. That was a stupid question. No, because you have great little sayings. You had a quote yesterday that I loved. I'm not going to quote myself. Okay. Okay. All right, here it is. Heaven is having a Japanese wife, a Chinese cook, a British country home, and an American salary. Hell, on the other hand, is having a Chinese salary, a British cook, a Japanese house, and an American wife.
So straight up misogyny. Just like, boom, we won it. Apparently he was married to you. All right. We will, if this is not the funeral of our podcast, we will see you next Tuesday.
