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If I ventured in the slipstream
Okay, welcome in. Andy Lack here. Great episode with Steve Hennessey of Golf Digest today, breaking down our picks for the Century Tournament of Champions. And of course, anytime I have Steve on, we have to talk golf courses. So in the second half of the episode, Steve and I did a year in review of our favorite golf travels, which was an absolute blast to record. So I hope you stick around for the end. All right, let's get to the show.
Okay. Steve Hennessy is here. Deputy managing editor for golf digest hosts of the be right podcast. My former boss for a little bit, new dad, whole bunch of other things. Steve golf is back. Are you excited? Are you ready?
So pumped, man. I know it was only like five or six weeks or whatever, but it seemed like a lifetime. You know, this is what we do. I mean, it's like baseball players reporting for spring training. You're, you know, the off season was a little bit too long. You're just pumped to get back to what you do best. So here we go. Yeah. Golf Twitter this morning was a blaze. You'd think it had been years. Um,
It's like, you know, coming back after the summer, uh, you know, in college and you're back and you see your, your old friends and you're scrolling through Twitter. Oh yeah. You know, this guy, I love checking out his bets. So man, so pumped to be back. I'm excited too. I thought that it was kind of the perfect amount of time off and it, it
it kind of felt a little bit shorter because I don't think anyone expected the PNC to turn out what it was, but how did you, how did you enjoy your break? Like I alluded to the fact that your new dad, I will always remember that because your baby was born in the midst of a 63 from Xander at the second round of the Olympics. And from that moment on, we just knew, but how, how, how have you spent your little break from golf?
Yeah, it was great, man. Enjoying the holidays with the baby made it extra special for sure. And then had some fantasy football championships to sweat out. Ended up winning two titles, which is a first for me. That's a little baby swag.
Yeah, I mean, and it's crazy too, because we played golf, you know, like a couple weeks before our baby was born. So, you know, time flies because it seems like yesterday we were, you know, playing golf, watching Nagels, you know, Skolas chip shots. But here we are, I've got a five month old and we got 2022 golf season.
Do you have any goals for golf betting in 2022? Is there anything that you, do you want to approach this year differently or any way, or was there anything that you felt like you were doing really well last year that you kind of want to continue? Man, great question. You know,
I do want to track my bets more. And I know a lot of people do this and I've told myself I should do it in the past, but you know, it's just something like, you know, I've told myself who has the time to really do it, but I,
I really want to track every single bet that I make because I want to see at the end of the year truly how much money I've made or lost. Last year, I made a lot of money on Kepka, the waste management. And I know that I was up money at the end of the year, but I want to know plus or minus.
How much? So I think that's my biggest goal this year. You know, all my DFS lineups, bets, enter them in a spreadsheet. You know, it just takes a little process to, you know, to get that going. I don't know if that's something you do because I know a lot of sharp people do it. I've tracked everything for four years. Yeah. I've tracked everything for four years and there's apps that there's apps that really help with it too. Yeah.
different discussion, different pod. But yeah, there's, I definitely recommend the, I mean, I think the like units guy on Twitter is never fun. So I try and like not do too much of that stuff, but I do think having some sense of accountability. I mean, I don't really think that people necessarily come to this podcast
podcast for my picks. I think they kind of come for my information. I always tell them, use my information. I can't promise that I'm going to use my information correctly. So don't necessarily follow my picks. Use my information to make your own picks. That's the best when you make a statement on the podcast and you don't end up using that research and info. And then someone else says, oh yeah, I tailed you based on... You loved Xander last week, so I took your advice. Yeah.
Oh man, I didn't love my advice that much, but I'm glad he did. Yeah. Well, we'll get right into Xander. I'm sure he will come up a lot, but let's dive right into it, man, because we've got some fun stuff to talk about at the end.
I'll give a very abbreviated breakdown of the course, and then I'll kind of kick it to you to see if there's anything you want to touch on about Kapaloo before we dive into the odds. But this is the first tournament of the year. It's the Century Tournament of Champions. There's 39 players in the field. Rory was the only guy who qualified and isn't here. But you have to have won last year, either on the PGA Tour or in the Olympics.
to qualify and it's a no-cut event. It's on the island of Maui and we're traveling to the plantation course at Kapalua. It's a par 73. It measures 7,596 yards. Only par 73, Steve, that we see all year on the PGA Tour.
It was designed by Bill Korn and Ben Crenshaw, two of my favorites. I think now this is their only course on the PGA Tour that we get. So super excited for that. And it has massive fairways. These are 60...
60-yard-wide fairways. For context, Steve, that is three times the size of the fairways at Harbortown, double the size of many of the courses we see on the PGA Tour, and the greens are massive as well. They average almost 9,000 square feet. They're Bermuda, but not really the slippery Bermuda that we tend to see sometimes in Florida. Like many tropical courses, it plays a little stickier. They run about 10 to 10.5 on the stint meter, and
And basically the greatest defense to this course is really the wind. Like if we get a ton of wind, like we did two years ago, JT won at 14 under, but we've also seen Spieth win at 30 under. If you want a far more extensive deep dive into the course, check out my Sunday pod, but I'll kick it to you, Steve. Anything about Kapalua that kind of stands out to you before we dive into the odds?
I mean, you nailed it. I think the only thing, and just briefly on the wind while I'm thinking of it, I looked quickly at wind finder and it looks like the wind was non-existent for the weekend. You know, if that could obviously change pretty quickly, but I mean, I,
The most I was seeing was nine miles per hour gusting on Saturday. Have you done any research into the wind? I haven't done any wind stuff yet because I know it's going to change a million times, but that doesn't totally surprise me. I mean, most years it's pretty moderate. Like most years we see the 14 under and the 13 and the 30 under were the outliers. Most years it's between like 18 and 25 under with moderate wind.
Right. Yeah. You know, it's not anything like the Bermuda or some of these other tournaments where the wing could really get going. So yeah, that's what I'm seeing so far. And the other thing I'm really looking at is par four scoring, because like you said, par 73, but this has 11 par fours. So I think par four scoring is,
big here. You know, a lot of these approach shots end up being pretty short. And like you said, these guys are going to find the fairway 60 yards wide is insane. So yeah, I mean, that's pretty much it proximity. You know, some people believe in that some people don't, but there's a good proximity week, I think, because these greens are so massive, with a lot of undulations, these corn crenshaw greens. So maybe that's something to look at. Maybe not. But
Let's dive into it. I'm looking at it. I talked about that on my Sunday pod because I think people think strokes gain approach with courses like Harbortown and Colonial with really small greens, but actually in a core and Crenshaw course where so much of their design is you have to feed the ball into certain spots as opposed to just fire at isolated targets. It actually really puts an emphasis on iron play. And this is one of the harder courses, um,
um, in terms of proximity to the hole because of that. So I I'm completely with you, but yeah, let's dive into the odds. Let's talk about some of the favorites. I'm looking at DraftKings sports book right now, but Steve, as always feel free to throw out kind of any numbers, um, that you're looking at. I've got ROM at six to one, Justin Thomas at plus eight 50 call more call at 10 to one.
Victor Hovland at 12 to one Xander Shoffley at 12 to one Bryson at 14 can't lay at 16 burns at 18. Those are all the guys below 20. Steve, are you interested in anyone at the top or like your podcast co-host powers? You're just going to completely forego it.
No, I try to go anti-powers whenever I can in life and in golf betting. But I mean, Rom scares the shit out of me coming into this year. I don't know if you agree, but it feels like he could just go on and keep going on a tear, you know, DJ 2020-esque situation.
Six to one is, you know, I don't think anyone's going to bet that, but I just think so highly of him going forward, you know, one and done probably not the week to go with him. Yeah. I think Tori, you know, you kind of just lock them in for that, but I'm scrolling down two guys in this range.
have my interest. One of them, I think you agree with me on, we'll just get it out of the way. Now, Xander, um, you know, loves this place and loves these no cut events. Um, and he gains a stroke and a quarter on the field and these no cut events. Only JT has a better, uh, rate than that. That's a great game and stat. Um, and he finished fifth last year. I thought, I think that's super telling because last year, if you remember, he was coming in with COVID, um,
said he had not been practicing and playing a lot. This is a really tough walk for a course and he still finished fifth. You know, obviously he's won here in the past. He really loves this place. So I think you said 12 to one at draft Kings that I think that's a, that's a fair number. That's what you're,
seeing him at in some of these bigger, you know, full field events even. So 12 to one, I think is decent. I haven't fired on it yet. I think in one and done formats, I'm going to, um, I'm going to really consider using him in most of mine, uh,
I'm sure you're with me on Xander as the biggest Xander stan outside of Nagels, I know. Yeah. So actually, to be totally honest with you, to address on Rom real quick first, like gun to my head, and I know this isn't a hot take, but it's kind of a hot take because my listeners know I'm not the biggest fan of Rom. He was the guy that jumped out to me, really. I really feel strongly about Rom and I
I just, I haven't seen him anywhere above eight to one. I'm priced out of it. And I'm probably going to live to regret it because I said this same thing before the U S open. Why would I bet one John Rom when I have the opportunity to bet a Rory and a DJ for the same price? Like that's how ridiculous Rom's odds have gotten. But it's, it's just too expensive. And there are two guys above 30 to one that I also really like. And I'm, I'm not really feeling a single bullet type week, but,
So yeah, the next guy that I would probably go to Steve is Xander. And I liked what you touched upon with the COVID last year and him still playing well.
My case with Zander would be, other than he's been unbelievable on this course, he's actually averaging almost two strokes on the field per round. That's second only to Spieth. But what Zander was struggling with the most actually towards the end of the year was his driver. And I remember vividly watching him at the Zozo thinking he had very little control over it.
uh, over his golf ball off the tee got a little better at the hero, I think. But again, he wasn't on TV that much. Um, and we didn't have shot tracker for that, but I really liked the idea of him going to a course with 60 yard, 60 yard wide fairways right now, this feels like a really good get right spot for him. And the reality of the situation is he needs a win. Like he just, he needs a win. And, um,
It's tough because at one point I agree you're getting kind of similar odds to what he'll go off in full field events. But at the same time, it is a little frustrating. I was just talking to Feinberg about this, how we have guys like Hovland and Cantlay and even Sam Burns really anointing, announcing themselves and kind of anointing themselves as proven winners over the past couple of months and
And Xander's not doing that. And we still can't get any drift on him. Right. Yeah, it's crazy. Because those guys are moving up. Totally. Burns is one of the hottest players in the world. And if you were to tell us 18 months ago that Sam Burns was on a tear and Xander Shoffley is sitting here without a win, he's lucky that he got an invite to
due to his Olympics win, you know, to be honest. So yeah, I think it's tough to read in the motivation for these guys that we haven't seen in five or six weeks. Like, I think that's a tricky thing to do, but this week, considering, you know, we don't have a lot of short term data to go off of, like, I think it's easier to kind of revert to that. And I think, you know, the motivation is certainly there.
for Xander, you know, and a guy like John Rahm, you know, a reason not to bet him is maybe, you know, he's got a baby. You know, he just had the year of his life and, you know, you could, you could obviously see how this is just like a vacation week for him. And it would, it would not surprise us if he wins, but we're not going to bet six to one, I think because of those reasons, but Xander, you know, at double the odds, he needs that win. You're right. So I'm big on Xander this week for sure.
Where do you stand on, I want to ask you about one or two more guys before we get into the next range, because there's still, there's a lot of interesting names at the top. And I think you can make a pretty compelling case for a bunch of these guys. What do you think about JT? Because I saw your boy Rappaport reported today that word on the street is JT was firing 61s at a nearby Hawaii course. But then you also turn on the golf channel and you see him misreading a putt.
by like 15 feet. So I kind of don't know what to do with JT. What do you think about him here? Yeah, I feel like all of the data in our brains of him just breaking putts of the past year, I think is kind of clouding our judgment for JT. At least I'm speaking for me personally. Like, you know, he loves Kapalua, has played so well here in the past. You know, I mentioned the no-cut play
data, but yeah, the putter, even at the PNC, like, I don't know if you watched a lot of the PNC, but he was even missing putts at, you know, that the Ritz Carlton course, like, and always right. Oh, he's on the right side. So I don't know. I mean,
At this number, I'm not there. I could obviously see it, but there's just a reason to go with some of these other guys who have proven that their putter is elite. And I think this week in particular, you're going to need to get a really hot putter. We see that year after year. You look at some of the guys who have won. They're all, relatively speaking, very good putters, and I don't think Justin Thomas is that right now. So that's my reason not to go JT.
Yeah, that's fair. I mean, the only other guy that I was looking at at the top, I mean, it feels criminal to not talk about Colin Morikawa, but his odds are starting to at least catch up to him. I think Bryson's really enticing. I haven't seen or I haven't really listened to anything yet this week, but I haven't seen a ton of chatter on him. I think
You know, the idea of Bryson on a course with massive fairways and these fairways have speed slots in them too. So there's going to be par fours that he's going to be able to drive. There's going to be par fives that he's going to have a wedge in. It's tricky because I think, you know, I almost, I'm not sure if I like him personally.
more on courses where everyone is hitting the fairway. I kind of almost like him more on courses with super narrow fairways like Bay Hill and Winged Foot where he has such an advantage because of his length. But Bryson's somebody that I probably am not going to end up getting to in the betting board, but I'm probably going to have some exposure to him in DFS.
Yeah, that's fair. And I don't think his ownership will be high. So he's going to pivot up top. Mark, I was interesting too. He had a good finish here last year. And, you know, he's someone who, you know, the creativity that's needed at Kapalua, a lot of these uneven lies, like he's talked about how that's how he grew up. That's how he shapes the ball pretty much all the time. So again, odds makers are kind of catching on. So 10 to one is tough. Someone who odds makers, I think are,
you know, not properly giving credit for the end of his year is Patrick Cantlay. He's actually my favorite bet this week. You said 16, I want to draft Kings. I mean, that's crazy. He's first in this field and strokes gain par fours in the last 50 rounds. And that, you know, that's longer sample size, but I think this is a week to kind of look at that. He's a second, a strokes game putting at Kapalua specifically. And obviously when you look at the short-term data, it's all going to say Cantlay because of how well he played last
last year. And, you know, again, motivation, I think, you know, he enters 2022 kind of wanting to prove that this wasn't a fluke the end of the year. Like he's one of the best players to stay. He's, he's going to be getting up for the majors, but, you know, adding a win at Kapalua, you know, is obviously a huge addition to his resume. So 16 to one just seems really criminal and, you know, I'm offended for Patrick Can't lay. So I'm going to bet it 16 to one.
I'm with you. I, for the life of me, I can't make a case for why he has worse odds than Xander. And he was the number one guy in my model. But this goes back to what we were talking about at the beginning. I'm going to bet Xander, but can't lay rated out as the number one guy in this field for me. So you're even higher than Ron. It was really, I had,
Cantlay won ROM two Xander three, and it was all really close, but yeah, you're, you're definitely onto something with Cantlay. I think this is a really good spot for him. And he, he did, he did finish the year on such a hot streak. Anyone else you want to talk about before we kind of dig into this next year? No, that that's it for me. I'm the top guys. So.
Okay, let's talk about these guys from 20 to 40. Daniel Berger, 20 to 1. Hizegi Matsuyama, 22. Jordan Spieth, 22. Sung Jae, M, 22. Cameron Smith, 22. Patrick Reed, 28. Abe Anser, 30. Brooks Koepka, 30. Tony Finau, 30. Mark Leishman, 30. Harris English, 35.
Kokrak 35, Gooch 35. And then we have this kind of massive drop off before we get to the next tier that starts at Kevin Knott 60 to one. So what about this mid tier? Who are you feeling in this mid tier?
You know, I'm not going to make too many bets in this tier just because, you know, traditionally it seems like the winner comes from the top level of player, but a couple of names do excite me. And I think at the end, I want to get your take on Koepka, but I'll, I'll go into the guys who I am interested in betting and,
Patrick Reed, I think at 28 to one is it's kind of crazy. You look at his odds for the masters, he's 30 to one. So kind of just on that principle, I think there's a reason to bet on him. He loves it at Kapalua one in 2015 runner up in 2020 and 2016. You talk about the great creativity needed to kind of navigate the
Kapalua, that's Reid and the scrambling that tends to be a decent stat here. That's Patrick Reid. So
I think, again, motivation-wise, there's a lot of reason for Reed to want to win, want to play well here. So that has my attention, 28-1, plus 150 as a top 10 bet. I think that's interesting too. And then the other guy that I'm interested in is Cam Smith. I just kind of expect big things from him this year. He had the loss to Fino, Liberty National, but easily could have won there.
I just love his game, you know, the approach shots. He's first in this field in birdie or better birdies game in the last 50 rounds, fantasy national, the putter. He's also first strokes game putting. So, you know, I could just see Cam Smith getting really hot and,
and making a bunch of birdies. The only thing that kind of worries me is, you know, this is a nice chill week and, you know, we know the guy loves hanging by the water, by the boat. Uh, I just finished watching this, uh, PGA memes video of him, uh, at his house in Jacksonville, which is a good watch that that's a plug for no odd reason, just because it was on video. But, you know, this is just a week I could see him just wanting to go fishing and, uh, you
enjoying Hawaii. So that's like the only reason why I wouldn't bet them, but that's not a real reason. So I think I'm going to bet Cam Smith. So those are the two guys I'm most interested in. And like I said, I want to ask about Capco because 30 to one, again, this doesn't seem right. You know, obviously it's not a major, but that's kind of a tired storyline. And what's with 30 to one at Kapalua? Should we be interested?
It's tough. I mean, I'm probably not going to end up getting there with Brooks because I love the two guys that you, the other two guys that you mentioned that I'll touch on after Brooks real quick, but...
I bet him a ton in the fall. I watched him pretty closely. It wasn't great, obviously. He won the match against Bryson, but I don't even think he looked good at all during the match. Bryson was just terrible. Bryson probably lost eight strokes putting through those nine holes. He looked a little bit better at the hero, but...
For me, this whole thing with Brooks hasn't really been about motivation. I just think he doesn't his golf games in a little bit of a slump. Like I think he I think the reason why he played so much this fall is because he was really trying to play his way out of it. And he said, like, I'm better suited playing in tournaments and playing rounds of golf that I am practicing on the range in Jupiter.
I think he's still just trying to play out of it right now. I think he kind of lost it a little bit as, as all golfers do. They go through periods where they lose it a little bit. And I just don't, I don't think he's, I think he wants to win. I think he really wants to win. I think he's fallen out of the top 10 in the world now. And, you know, for something like the match with Bryson, he can kind of,
muster that willpower to kind of win on willpower, but I just don't think his game's there right now. Yeah. I know you were following him very closely in the fall, so I wanted to get your take. Regrettably. But I mean, you were kind of spot on the whole way. So yeah, I'm with you that I'm not going to bet it, although it just seems kind of crazy that in a 39-man field, he's 30-1, but your reasoning makes total sense.
Just to add on to your love for Cam Smith, I mean, he's probably going to be my last man out in terms of my bets, but I'm going to have a ton of exposure to him in DraftKings unless he comes in at massive ownership, and I'll probably bet him top 10 or something too. I love the par 5 numbers. I love the birdie or better percentage. I love him if the wind blows. I love him if the wind doesn't blow. I love that he has room off the tee. I love him on Bermuda. I just think it's such a perfect spot for Cam Smith.
but have we reached the point where he should consistently be priced better than Patrick Reed? I mean, maybe he's definitely been playing better than Reed, but if I have to choose between Smith and Smith at 22 and, and read at 30, I got to go read. And so I'm with you. I'm in on read this week at 30. I'm sure he'll be popular this week. He should be popular. I think it's a fantastic course for him.
I love that it's a little more open off the tee, and he's been excellent on slow Bermuda greens specifically. He's one of the best lag putters in the game too, and he has a tendency to come out of the gates firing. Actually, five of his nine career wins have come during the first three months of the year, Steve. So he's a really hot starter, and I
I'm not usually a bet the number guy, but 30 to one in a 39 man field, as you mentioned, where you can get them at the same to win the masters. That feels a little high for me. So sign me up for P let's do it.
Let's do it. Yeah. I mean, this is not going to be a vacation week for P. Reed. Oh, no. Him and Justine are, you know, they're probably at the range as we're recording this. Everyone else is, you know, at the bar, at the pool, drinking, not Reed. So I'm with you. This is a business trip.
He's here to win, and this is a great chance to do it. I love that stat, five of the nine wins coming in the first three months. Love it. The only other guy that I wanted to mention before maybe we can touch on a couple long shots. I don't have many, but I really love Mark Leishman here. I was able to secure a 45-1 on him via our friend Brian Kirshner's local, but at most places, he's somewhere between 30 and 35.
I still like him at those numbers, but I just think there's a lot to like with Leishman, similar to Reed. I love him when he has space to operate off the tee. He's been pretty good at this course. He's got a fourth and a seventh, and he really started to turn things around this fall swing. Now, a lot of that was based on his putter. He had two top fives, and during those top fives, he gained almost 15 strokes putting between those two events, but
Even after that, when the putter kind of came back down to earth, the ball striking improved. And at a macro level, his ball striking has been on an upward trajectory for a couple months now. So I'm happy to roll the dice with a guy who's been hitting the ball great, has taken down really good fields before, and is very capable of catching a really hot putter. So give me Leishman at 45 to one, but that's kind of it for me in this tier. Yeah.
Yeah, I'm with you. You know, my outright bets are definitely up top. I think, you know, top 20 wise, Joel Damon at plus a hundred makes some sense to me. I think his, his approach play, his wedge play specifically is very good, you know, compared to some of the other guys in his price range. So, you know, I think he's kind of interesting as a top 20. Cam Davis is a little interesting too to me because his off the tee game could be elite and, you know,
Kind of like Reed, he could hit it all over the place, but he's not going to miss many fairways here. So, you know, someone with his kind of distance at Kapalua is somewhat interesting at plus 100 also for a top 20. But yeah, I'm keeping it pretty light at the bottom here. So I think that's going to do it for me.
Yeah. I mean, Damon was actually the only guy that I wanted to mention. I think if you want to throw an absolute dart, this is the 6K guy that I'm targeting in DraftKings. I actually think that Damon is...
the play that I like the most at the bottom of the board. Pretty good iron player, makes a lot of birdies, solid Bermuda putter, solid lag putter, quietly had a really good fall swing. Like he made every single cut and he finished fifth at the Houston open. Ball striking was quite good. So if you're looking for a cheap salary saver or someone to play top 20, I actually prefer Damon to any of these guys, frankly, to Kisner, Sink, EVR, even Herbert. I'd rather play Damon, but that's,
really the only guy I think is worth mentioning. So to recap, before we get into the fun stuff, I think it's going to be Xander Reed Leishman for me. What about you?
Man, we are on the same page. Did not share any notes before this. No, none. Intentionally didn't listen to your Sunday show yet because I didn't want to- Come in fresh. Yeah, of course. Exactly. Yeah. So mine are Cam Ways, my favorite bet, Zander, probably just a one and done, and then Reed and Cam Smith for me. Wow. I love it. Well, all right, man, let's get into the fun stuff. I give you a couple prompts. I want to talk about kind of
do a little like golf course year in review type thing. So the first question that I asked you was favorite new course that you played this year. And now I know you were out of commission for a little bit because of the baby. But I have a feeling you still have some, some quality finishers for me. I want to do a public and private division. Okay. So let's go with the private first. You want to start out or you want me to go?
Hey, I'll let you, the host, start it out. So go for it.
Okay. I mean, luck, man, this could be a whole separate podcast, but it's got to be Chicago Golf Club for me. Have you played there, Steve? I can't remember. I have. I've played there and I've been there on a separate occasion just as a tour with the superintendent, but I got to play it. That was 2019. So very familiar with it. And also one of my favorites. Oh man. Okay. So walking off the course, I said to myself,
That might not be the greatest golf course that I've ever played, but I think it's the greatest use of land that I've ever seen because it's such a pedestrian property. I mean, it's not, it's not beautiful at all. There's no fantastic views or anything. Um,
But I mean, the way that McDonald has the ability to craft these greens, it's just, it kind of takes you to a different world. And I actually, I had it number one in my personal rankings and, and then I went back and I dug into golf club Atlas and I brushed up on national because I haven't, I haven't played there in four years and I didn't want recency bias to affect me.
my rankings that I care so deeply about. And I still think it's national number one for me, but it's really one a and one B with Chicago. It's so tough, Steve. Like I went through and I tried to think, I was like, okay, let's break this down. National has a better punch bowl, but Chicago has a better, or Dan, like,
National has a better Cape, but Chicago has a better Eden. And it's just like you're splitting hairs after a certain point. They're both just the purest and most fun and engaging, in my opinion, that golf can be. Yeah. I mean, National is seen as like the cathedral of American golf architecture. The fact that you're putting Chicago golf...
in the same conversation, you know, I think just speaks to how good it is. Those greens are, you know, it's tough to think of more strategically designed greens. I love Oakmont's greens. Wingfo West's greens are incredible, but yeah, I mean,
what Rainer and, you know, McDonald, um, before him did there. Incredible. Like you said, the land, very pedestrian. It's similar to Wingfoot West, to be honest to me, because that's a very flat piece of property, but the greens really make it stand out. Same thing with Chicago. And, you know, obviously the vibe there, you can't bring your cell phone at all. And I love it. Yeah. It's like the masters. It's like, you know, it's so great to unplug completely for however long you're there. Um,
The locker room, the original lockers, it's just such a special place. How about the kid caddies too? Isn't that such an incredible touch? Their caddy program is phenomenal. Unbelievable. And they don't allow range finders. So you have this nine-year-old telling you the yardages and you just got to trust him. Right.
Right. Yeah, it was cool that they brought the senior women's there a couple years ago so people got to see it. But it's one of those places that not too many people know about because it's, you know, so exclusive. They only have like 140 members or whatever. So I'm glad you got to get there. It's one of those, one of those places that I wish more people could enjoy.
And the other thing about Chicago, and I'm sure you can relate to this, but when you play one of those really, really special courses, and there's really only a handful, maybe a dozen, two dozen of them in the world, how I actually score on that day is so irrelevant to me. But who you play with is so important. And I just happened to get lucky. And the guy that I play with was
so obsessed and so knowledgeable about the history and the course. And he just had so many little tidbits. And it was one of those rounds, Steve, where the course was pretty empty, as I'm sure that it often is because there's only 100 members. But he would do things like he would say, okay, place a ball right here and try and putt from there. I want you to see what McDonald and Rayner were going for if you happen to miss long on this hole. So I got a lot of
you know, stuff like that, where for guys like me and you, it's just pure nirvana, but we'll have to do a separate podcast together on this stuff because I could, I could go on for days, but give me, give me your favorite new course, private division.
okay yeah i mean this is kind of an obvious one i'm not sure if you know that i played this course i got to play pine valley for the first time this year and you know it obviously a very special experience um it was my first 18 hole round since our baby was born so you know when you go
go to play pine Valley, probably the toughest course in America. You want your game to be, you know, as good and grooved as it could be, but I hadn't played in like, you know, I think it was two months or so. So I went out to, so I get the text, our CEO at golf digest, Jerry Tardy. Yeah. He was my, he was my interview. Love Jerry. Yeah. So he is a long time member there. He's like the mayor.
Pine Valley. You go around with him and everyone wants to steal time with him. But, you know, he gave me the text and threw me the invite and, you know, thankfully my wife let me go. So I got, you know, a couple holes in the night before and then,
went and got to stay and played the par three course kind of unexpectedly, or I should say the short course, cause there's a par four there, uh, the day before it was unbelievable. Um, you know, dinner there, uh, the whole thing. So that was as good as
Of a, you know, of course that I've played, obviously, I mean, it's as good of an experience though of any, and I've been fortunate to have some nice experiences within golf, but it's something that kind of lives up to expectations. You know, it's kind of like going to the masters for the first time. It's,
built up in your mind of, you know, this can't possibly exceed my expectations, but that's how the golf course is. Every hole is so distinctive. You can remember it. Even me just playing it once I could kind of replay shot by shot. And there were a lot of shots. I'll tell you that much, but I can replay the entire round of my head. So that just shows you how good of a course it is. So.
That's kind of what I've heard. I've heard that it lives up. I mean, I've heard that there hasn't been many people that I know that have played it that have said a single bad word about it. And it's really hard too when you have such lofty expectations at a place and everyone is like, no, trust me, it delivers. I've heard their cottages are like amazing too. And each of the cottages have like their own little putting green, right?
Yeah. So we stayed in one of the private houses, but if you stay in the lodge, it's like, you know, old kind of college dorms, like people don't even shut their doors at night. You know, like there's these little telephone booths. Cause again, you're not supposed to have your cell phone, but you got to go in those to, to use your phone. So yeah, I mean, it's incredible. The turtle soup, if you've heard about the turtle soup, I read long articles about this.
Yeah. You mentioned golf club out. So I know, I know, you know, that turtle soup, but it was actually decent. Like I wouldn't think that that's actually something that was good, but it's pretty good. They have a little thing of like brandy that you pour into the soup and
While you're eating, it's good. Pine Valley. Turns out it's a pretty good course, pretty good place. All right. So we both just named two of the five most exclusive clubs in the country. Let's dive into the public division. I'll go first.
My best new course public division is Bethpage Black. Just a absolutely delightful test of golf. It's a course that I'd never played before this year. And it's a place I'm going to absolutely return to every year. I'm not one of those, I need to play from the tips guys. I actually think that the majority of people don't play it forward enough, which contributes to slow play. Again, whole other podcast. But I actually think
If you're a pretty good golfer, it's really fun to play from all the way back at
at Bethpage Black and get your ass kicked. It is really one of the best tests of kind of all aspects of your game that I've ever found. And it really kind of keeps your ego in check. And in order to score well there, you kind of have to play a little bit of a different brand of golf and learn to take your medicine. Like I, I played there the first time and I was like, no, I can hit a six iron out of this rough and you just can't like,
Like you just can't, maybe unless you're Bryson, but I love courses like that, that kind of require that level of thinking. And I don't think Bethpage Black is an architectural marvel by any means, like the two courses that we just mentioned. I don't even think it's Tillinghast's best course, but in terms of an honest, honest
thought-provoking, engaging, fair test of golf that is in really good condition, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a better public course in the country. So Bethpage Black for me. What's your favorite new course public division? Well, I didn't play with the baby. I didn't play so many new courses. Pine Valley happened to be one of them, but I did...
I want to mention Rock Spring Golf Course, which is here in Jersey. I played it before, but that was the last round I played before the baby. Birdied the first hole and then ended up shooting a 38 on the front nine. Let's go. Before I got called off, I had to come back to the wife because she was having contractions. So that was my most memorable round. But you would like Rock Spring, Andy, because it's a Seth Rayner public course. And there aren't too many of those. They're putting a lot of money into it.
It's great. It's been private in the past. Now it's, I guess it's fully public Kemper.
manages it. It's just really good. So if anyone's in the tri-state area listening to this and you haven't played Rock Spring, you got to go check it out. You know, it can be an iffy shape, you know, from time to time. It's not like Bethpage Black. They keep that in immaculate shape, but it's really good. It's usually like 70, 80 bucks, which around here you can't really beat. Yeah, that's good. And Rainer Public Core. So Rock Spring.
That'll have to be the site of our rematch with Nagels and Chris. What was the name of that course that we played at, by the way? Because I really enjoyed that too. Yeah. Neshanik Valley is phenomenal. 27 holes, really good golf. A little out west. It's about an hour from the city. But yeah, that's tough to beat too. Really, really fun layout. So yeah, Jersey doesn't have a lot of great public golf options, but we're talking about two of them. Yeah.
Yeah. Powers is take that Jersey golf is better than New York golf. I don't know if I can get behind that one. No. If anyone who appreciates golf course architecture hears that statement, yeah, that doesn't stand up. I love CP, but he's a little too biased there. That kid is more Jersey than me even, and I'm very Jersey. Yeah. New York is probably the best state for golf. I mean, California, New
No, I think New York gets the leg up just in terms of the amount of great golf, whereas California, like the top 10 is very good.
Yeah. It's tough to beat New York for golf, for sure. To have national Shinnecock, Sabonic, Wingfoot, Maidstone. I mean, and I was going to say in like a five-mile radius of each other and even like Montauk Downs and West Hampton. East Hampton, South Hampton, West Hampton. They're all so good. Yeah. Deepdale, like it's insane. Great.
Greek. Yeah. Piping rock. It's nuts. Yeah. It goes, it goes on and on. So garden city, like it's just, I guess you could kind of put Monterey there like with the tab pebble, Cypress, spyglass, Monterey peninsula, shore, Monterey peninsula, dunes, poppy Hills, but I still like five or six like really good courses. Whereas, you know, long Island has, you know, 20, 15, 20. Yeah. Yeah.
All right, man. Well, let's get to the next category.
I'll lead off. The next category is what course surprised you the most? So this doesn't have to be a new one. It could be a course that maybe you returned to for the first time, but a course that you were kind of surprised, maybe a little under the radar, but a course that kind of surprised you the most and you were most pleased with. I'm going to go with a course called the Wanderers Club. It's a little course down in Wellington, Florida that I had the pleasure of playing with
Joey Doney, Torpex on Twitter. It's his home course. Just a delightful course. It's a Peter Jakobsen design.
very playable, really nice mix of memorable holes. And I'm not a fan of Florida golf in general, outside of Seminole and I guess stream song, which I've never played. It's, it's just not my favorite place to play, which isn't by the way, it's not, that's not Florida's fault. It's just a state that typically doesn't have a lot of interesting land, but,
Most courses are really flat and I just, I love me some elevation changes, but like, for example, I played, I played Doral blue monster the day before. And I thought that was extremely bland, maybe the most, maybe the most overpriced round of golf I've ever played. And I, I,
played Wanderers the next day. And I thought that was far more interesting, far more thought provoking. And it did not hurt that Joe and I played really well and made a ton of money in his little Sunday game. But overall, very pleasant surprise, great membership, great clubhouse, great logo, just a delight. So Wanderers Club for me, I say as I start to lose my voice.
I'm very jealous he got to play with Joe. He and I go back and forth about golf quite often, so I'm very jealous of that. That's for sure.
He's a great guy, like unbelievable in person. Obviously, he's got a great Twitter presence as well. But I was so happy because it was the best round that he's ever shot at his home course. He shot a 70. Yeah, he shot a 76. And I could tell about midway through that he was punching way above his weight. And I was just like,
let's go keep like business like keep the keep the foot down don't talk to a pitcher when he's throwing a no-no and I felt like I take a lot of credit for playing a hand in being his emotional support system during that round so it was fun I made a fair amount of money I think he made a
ton of money because they had all their like side bets in the Sunday game. But it was, it was a fantastic morning. I would, if you ever get down to Florida, I would highly recommend that course. It's about, I don't know, 45 minutes outside of Palm beach. Okay.
That's awesome. So much fun. It's sweet. Well, I think mine would be another Jersey gym, mountain Ridge country club, which I have played before, but got back to, and they continue to make it better. It made, I don't want to mention golf magazine's name, but I guess it made their top hundred last time around. And, you know, the club is very proud of that as it should be, but you know, I,
I see it really rising up in golf digest rankings too. And yeah, I guess I shouldn't really say that being the guy who ever sees our rankings, I have nothing to do with it. It's all,
our panelists. So, you know, I could give my opinion on it. It is just so good. Donald Ross, they, like I said, they continue to make it better and hosted an LPGA event last year. So, you know, it's stature is kind of on the rise. It's been one of the really private clubs in Jersey for a long time, but the membership,
is kind of recognizing that they have this insanely good course and they want to showcase it more. So that's why you see it in golf magazines, rankings and holding the LPGA event
It's a course that people are going to hear a little more about in the next coming years. And it just surprises me how good it is. Every time I play it, I got to play it for the third time. And yeah, so good. It's one of those just hidden gems that people probably haven't even heard of, but might be, if it's not a top 100 course, it's at least I think top 150 and, you know, probably top 5%.
five to six in New Jersey. It's kind of like in the same conversation as playing field, I think. And playing field, that's strong praise. Yeah. It's very good. So again, once you're back up this way, Andy, you got to check out mountain Ridge. It's great. No, I'm excited to check it out. I haven't heard of it. And I've heard of, I mean, I remember still for my days at digest plugging, uh,
millions of courses into databases. So I've heard of like everything and I, I can't, I can't recall that one. So that's,
that's great information. Yeah. Is it public or private? Private, very private. But like I said, they're kind of, they want to get the word out a little more about it. So yeah, definitely check it out. All right. That sounds great. Well, all right. Final category, Steve is wishlist for 2022. And I put it into two categories. I did realistic and unrealistic division. Now, realistic division is,
can either be public near you or private where you kind of know some members. But of course, that you really feel confident that if you put your mind to it, you'll be able to knock off this year. And unrealistic can be anything. Unrealistic can be your number one dream on your wishlist. So I'll start first with my realistic dream.
Number one for me, realistic division is Pasatiempo, which for those that don't know, it's a semi-private course in Santa Cruz, but you can make tea times at it. Alistair McKenzie Design. Have you ever played an Alistair McKenzie course? I realized the other day I have not played one Alistair McKenzie course.
in my life. I'm going to Valley Club of Montecito next weekend. That is my first Alistair McKenzie course I've ever played. Most of his work is, I mean, I grew up in New York and most of his work is in like Northern California.
Correct. Yeah. He, he obviously didn't do too much, uh, in this country. So, um, you know, started over and did a lot in Australia before he came over. I have played Paso Tiempo a couple of times. I've played the university of Michigan course, which is, uh, an under the radar course.
I've heard phenomenal things about that. Yeah. You know, it needs kind of an update. And I think, you know, it would be one of the best publics if it got that, but dude, Paso Tiempo, so good. So very glad you're here.
Did you, did you play it post 2007? Cause I, cause Doak came in, I think around 2007 and did a great restoration from what I've heard. Yeah. Both times I played it. Yeah. You know, like 2013 and a couple of years ago. Yeah. So good. The par threes are incredible.
Yeah. The 11, some of the movement, the land movement and the fairways, like for a public course, it's almost unfathomable. So you'll love it. The 11th hole is one of the best par fours I think that I've ever played is so insanely tough. You, I mean, you'll see if you get there, the approach shots like 190 yards over a ravine uphill to a really tough green. And then you look back and you get the view of the city in the background. So yeah.
Anyway, it's one of the best. You know, I'm not surprised to hear you speak so highly of it. It kind of has like a little bit of a cult following, it feels like. I've actually, I've seen it pop up really highly on a lot of smart architecture guys' lists. And McKenzie has actually said, I think he said before that Passatiempo is his best work. And
For those that don't know, he's designed two of the five greatest courses in the world in Augusta National and Cypress Point. And yet, Paso Tiempo is where he made his home. I think that's where he lived right on that course. Yeah, the house is still there. There's a little signage there.
Yeah. And so it, it clearly holds a special place in his heart and I'm just, I'm dying to get there. It's about a four hour drive from where I live in LA. So I'm just going to commit a day to it and, and check that one off. What, what about you for, for realistic division?
man, realistic stuff for me. Cause there's still a decent amount of courts on my bucket list. I'm not one to, to really leverage my contacts, um, at golf digest too much. And that might not surprise you. And that's what makes you great though. Like you're in a position where that's highly leverageable, we'll say, but no, correct. Yes. One of the only clean hitters left in the game. That's right. So I, you know, I don't like to force the issue, um,
But I think Friar's Head is somewhere that I really need to get to soon. And it's a tough get for sure because there's not a ton of members there. But yeah, it's top 20 in the country. Cora Crenshaw, definitely high on my list. That would be my East Coast one.
for this one. But yeah, I mean, I, I've heard, I think we even talked about this last time you came on, but there's like a, there's a hive of like Friars head is actually better than Shinnecock and national, which I don't know about that, but Friars had another one of those courses that it shot up your rankings really,
really, really quickly. So I'm dying to get out there too. I'll give mine for the unrealistic division. And now...
I have this in the unrealistic category because even though I know a few members at this course and I felt on a number of occasions that I was maybe close to securing the invite and it just hasn't happened. So I've kind of just like lost hope and just gotten into this weird phase of acceptance where now I'm just convinced I'm never going to play it. But it's literally 15 minutes away from my house and
But it feels like galaxies away, Steve, and that is Riviera, which is my white whale. Wow. And the fact that an LA guy, now an LA guy, feels like he can't get out at Roof. I mean, I've never heard of such a thing. I've played LA Country Club multiple times, but Riviera is like, it might as well be
on the moon to me. I just, it feels, it feels so unattainable. And so if any, if anyone's listening and they want to make my dreams come true, I'll be there to watch the Genesis. I'll say that. But, but Riviera is kind of my white whale LA because it's so, it's,
darn close to my house, which makes it all the more frustrating. Well, I'm sure one of your loyal listeners can help you get on Riviera. But if not, when I'm out there next time, I think I could probably help with that. And I have not played it as well. I've been there for the tournament like you, but need to play it. So I
I think we have two rounds that we got to, you know, get together in 2022. We got to get on fryer's head and we got to get on riffs. You've never played the Creek either, right? Also the Creek. Correct. We got to get you on there. Yeah. Yeah. We got to get, we got to get you on the Creek. Wow, man. All right. Well,
Anything you want to, any, anything we didn't touch on, those were the only, those were the only categories. Any, I'm, have you played ballet club Montecito? I'm going there next week and I'm, I'm just, I'm dying. I'm so excited. It's my first McKenzie.
I've not played it. I've heard good things. Again, one of those under the radar gems, top 100 course. So excited to hear what you think. My white whale just quickly was Cypress, but that's a lot of people's white whales. Oh, that's right. I kind of got confused for a second because I thought you had skipped. Fryer said, was your realistic?
That was, yeah. I mean, maybe not realistic. I feel like I could get on there possibly. That's been floated by some people. Yeah. Cypress is my unrealistic. It's a lot of things that have to align, but yeah, that's probably number one on my bucket list to be honest.
Yeah, it's up there for me too. I think, you know, when I went to play Pebble about a year, a little over a year ago, and, and I was just as excited to drive up and see the Cypress sign and see if I could see any of the course as I was to play Pebble. But that one is another Alistair McKenzie one that I'm, uh, I'm dying to play as well, but all right, man. Well,
This was a blast. I'm sure we could do another hour or so just on golf courses. And if people like this part of the podcast and want more of it, we'll definitely do more stuff like this. I know sometimes when I get too deep into the architecture, the betting and DFS guys get a little triggered, but this is clearly my passion and your passion as well. So before we get out of here, anything you want to plug? What do you got going on? Is B-Rite coming back?
He writes back, man. It's been so long since we did a pod. We did our last pod together. I think the boys were back in the office, uh,
I guess, what was that? I guess for RSM, but it was so long ago, who the hell knows? You guys did the match, right? You guys did the match. Yeah. I mean, you know our content better than us. Yeah. Which, by the way, I talked to Powers about this. I put in the draw for the Johnny O thing. I leave a fantastic review, and then I hear on the podcast, Andy's eliminated because he's our friend. What's up with that? That's ridiculous. You didn't read the fine print. I mean, come on. Yeah.
If you're a friend or family of an employee of Discovery, we can't have you win our contest. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. All right. I mean, I see where you're coming from, but I don't know.
I don't know. It was a great... Well, the review will be there forever. And I love Johnny O. So I hope you do more of that for the listeners. Well, we could help you out with Johnny O, I think. Yeah. In terms of some of our content, I think Powers and I might be doing a new video on Wednesdays that, I don't know, we may or may not do and call it Coffee Bets. I
I don't know. It's kind of like a, an idea right now. We'll see if we actually do it, but the idea is just for us to kind of like comb all the content through the industry, you know, on Mondays and Tuesdays and then Wednesday decide what the hell we're going to bet on and talk through it with people, just like how people would, you know, have their coffee and make their bets on a Wednesday morning. So look for that on Twitter. If powers and I decide to
to do it. And if we know how to post the video to Twitter, that's to be seen. But yeah. Thanks for the plug on be right. Yeah. We do have a good guest this week. I'll say that. I don't want to jinx it. I usually resist saying anything until we actually record it with the person, but it is a PGA tour pro. So I hope it comes through. We're supposed to talk to him tomorrow. So yeah. Yeah.
I'm sure you saw my Twitter comment, but you guys put out your most, like your highest listened to or whatever podcast of the year. And truly a shock and disappointment on so many levels that our discussion of the AT&T Byron Nelson didn't get more run. I mean, your breakdown of the podcast
the water, uh, there. Oh, Craig ranch is Craig ranch. Yeah. Most, you know, benign Texas course. There is probably you filled in dutifully. Yeah. Was that the, the pod that we recorded while I was at Congaree or was that a second? No, that was, Oh, it was. Okay. Yeah. I came in in relief duties at the 11th hour and came in with all of, uh, Will Zalatouris his dad's
real estate holdings, um, ready, ready to go. Um, so, uh, any, anytime you need me, I'll have, uh, I'll have the most useless tidbits to, uh, to provide, but. No, but I mean, that just like sums up how, how much you've risen in the industry. Uh, since then you would be no one's second thought, um, these days. So no, thanks for having me on Andy. This is a lot of fun and, uh,
pumped to start this journey of golf gambling in 2022. Let's go. All right, Steve, have a good one, my friends, and I'll talk to you soon, buddy. Sounds good. All right. That's it for the show. Before we get out of here, friendly reminder that The Scramble with Rick Gaiman begins Tuesday, 12 p.m. Eastern. It's a live show. It's probably on
already out by the time you're listening to this. And you can find that on Rick Run Good's YouTube page. Subscribe to that. It's also on the 300 Yards to Unknown podcast feed if you're an audio guy. I also popped on with Sal Vetri to do
a short video of my picks for his brand new golf betting network. That was a blast. And Sal is a really smart guy that I'm excited to work with a bunch more in the future. So be sure to subscribe to his golf betting network on YouTube. And I'll see you next time.
I so appreciate all the support diving back into the new season with this podcast. I can't tell you guys how much it means when you guys share the show, have a bunch of new listeners in the new year that I've heard from, and I'd love to watch it continue to grow. So Inside Golf Podcast on Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts, leave a review on Apple. Those things really mean a lot.
and InsideGolf underscore pod on Twitter. And you can find me on Twitter at ADPWaxSports. Best of luck with your bets this week. Cheers.
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