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Lauren Collins on the unraveling of an expert on serial killers.
David Grand's impossible-to-put-down stories of mutiny and murder. Subscribe at newyorker.com slash dark, and you'll get access to all of it, plus a free New Yorker tote bag. I must say, the very best tote bag around. That's newyorker.com slash dark. Dr. Satvinder Singh finds something comforting in the long stretch of flat fields and row upon row of crops that he sees as he drives around the Mississippi Delta.
reminds him of where he grew up. I'm from a small town from India. My dad was a farmer and I used to help him in the farms. I don't do farming here. I don't have time. But when I came here, I see the surroundings and everything the way I was brought up. But recently, starting in March, the drives that Dr. Singh takes through the Delta really started to stress him out.
Because Dr. Singh is an infectious disease doctor. As best I can tell, he's one of the only infectious disease doctors in the entire Mississippi Delta, an area just a little smaller than the state of New Jersey.
And so Dr. Singh, perhaps more than anyone else, knew what could happen when the new coronavirus came here. This virus is spreading so fast, it's very difficult to control it. Our Mississippi is less than 1,000 right now, but I'm not sure how long we will be holding it. If we don't stop it, it's just overwhelming.
By late March, there were about 188,000 cases of coronavirus in the United States. And here in Mississippi, there were nearly 1,000 cases and 20 deaths. But the story of the virus in the Delta was only just beginning. This is In the Dark, Coronavirus in the Delta. I'm Madeline Barron. Most of the time, I'm the lead reporter and host of an investigative podcast. Our last season was about the case of Curtis Flowers, a man in Mississippi who was on death row.
After our reporting came out, Curtis's conviction got overturned, and he's now out of prison and living out of state. The In the Dark team had been working on a third season about something completely different. But then the new coronavirus hit the United States, and everything changed. I started hearing from people I'd met when I lived in Mississippi, getting texts and calls, not about Curtis Flowers, but about the virus. And it made me wonder what life was like there now, in this place I'd gotten to know so well.
So I decided to find out. I spent the past two months, along with the rest of the In the Dark team, reporting on coronavirus in the Mississippi Delta, the poorest part of Mississippi, one of the poorest places in the entire country. Of course, we can't go to Mississippi right now, so we've been talking to people on the phone instead.
All right. I am recording. Hi, this is Natalie. Hi, this is Parker. Hi, this is Madeline Barron calling from Minnesota. We've been gathering stories about people living through this unprecedented time of fear and anxiety. We wanted to look at how life has changed. Yes, for a nurse in the ICU or a doctor in the ER, but also for a football coach, a musician, a guy in prison. We've all read the big stories, the terrifyingly overwhelming stories.
We wanted to try something different, to tell individual stories, one by one,
Of people trying to live in this really hard time, trying to make decisions, trying to get by in a situation that none of us have really faced before. Well, we're surviving. We're pretty much their family. It's out of control. You can let them do whatever they want to do. So you've written a song like in the last week? You bet your little bimpy I have. Roller by, roll. Just kicking off my back stairs. Roller by, roll.
I'm telling y'all right now, we're going to play football. You guys are trying to graduate on time. It's critical right now that you stay on top of this. I get what you're saying, but it's like, given the pandemic, I mean, like, he could die in there. What if that happens? Judge? Episode one, Greenville. Dr. Singh ended up in Mississippi through a kind of unexpected path. Back at the start of his career, he wanted to be a doctor in California.
But the process to get licensed was taking so long. I did everything, gave all the documents, and I was still waiting. He started getting calls from a recruiter, talking to him about a place he'd never even heard of, Greenville, Mississippi.
The local hospital there was looking for a doctor. I said, well, I'm not going to Mississippi, okay? I have not heard about that state, and I don't know how to spell it. But, you know, he was just telling me, you know, you don't have to spend a penny. You just get an experience how to interview for a real interview, okay? You just try it. No, I said, no, I don't want to try it. So, you know, he was so stubborn. He used to call me every day.
In the morning, every day in the morning. Finally, one day, Dr. Singh decided he was sick of just waiting around. And when the recruiter called him the next morning, Dr. Singh told him, actually, I will come down for an interview. He figured that if he got the job, he'd stay maybe a few months. I asked him only one question, that if I leave, how many months or weeks advance notice I give you?
That was 16 years ago. Dr. Singh took the job in Greenville and never left. It's a small town, but it meets my requirement. You know, in big towns, you don't know anybody. Nobody knows you. But this is good. Actually, I have a good relationship with the town. Most people know me. I know them. My kids are graduating from here in the schools. I don't feel like I'm a stranger here.
Dr. Singh cares for patients with all kinds of infectious diseases, pneumonia, heart infections, brain infections, and his job is basically nonstop. When it's the middle of the night and a nurse wants to know what to do about a patient whose infection is suddenly getting worse, they call Dr. Singh. So that's what he's been doing for years. But then, three months ago, Dr. Singh started tracking the striking new virus, the new coronavirus, that was spreading in China.
And what he was hearing was frightening. This virus is so contagious, it just eats a very small amount and it just takes over the whole body. The first time we talked with Dr. Singh was late March. Already, there were a few cases of coronavirus in Greenville, including some patients at the hospital where Dr. Singh works.
By that point, Mississippi had already taken some steps to slow the spread of the virus. The state's governor, Tate Reeves, had shut down the schools. He'd urged people to wash their hands regularly. And Governor Reeves had advised people to follow the guidelines issued by the CDC. The people should avoid crowds and keep at least six feet away from each other.
But as we were talking with Dr. Singh in late March, it was clear that that wasn't what Dr. Singh was seeing as he drove around town. I'm not sure how much the community understands the impact of the disease. I mean, I just came from the hospital, but I saw on my way in the Walmart, it is full. Parking lot is full. Walmart, Kroger, Lowe's. The parking lot was full like it's a Black Friday. Dr. Singh knew what could happen.
All these people who seemed healthy right now could be spreading the virus. And he was especially worried about them spreading it to people who are already sick, people with compromised immune systems, people at a higher risk of dying from this disease. And Dr. Singh felt he needed to do something. He needed to convince the city of Greenville to shut down. Keep in mind, this is before the governor issued a stay-at-home order. This is before lots of places were forced to shut down.
Dr. Singh started making calls and having other people in his office make calls too. And he started with a kind of business that was irking him almost as much as the mega stores with their full parking lots, Greenville's gyms, where people were still gathering to work out. Right now is not time to train for fitness. Right now is to stay healthy at home. First, Dr. Singh called the manager of Extreme Fitness 24-7. And he was a nice guy.
In the morning, I called him. At 5 o'clock, he called me back. He said he closed until further notice. And that's good. Then Dr. Singh actually sent his office manager in person to the local YMCA. The manager talked to a trainer there, who didn't love the idea of closing up shop. But eventually, the YMCA shut down too. And Dr. Singh called the mayor of Greenville, Mississippi, a man named Eric Simmons.
Simmons is all about unity. He ran on a platform of uniting the town. His campaign slogan was We Are One, which was also the name of his campaign song. This city can change the world one step at a time. One goal, one voice, one song. In harmony we can go. We can build what we believe. And in hand we are community.
Mayor Simmons is a Democrat, and he's Black. And that's the norm here in the Delta, to have Black elected officials who are Democrats. The Delta is majority African American, and unlike most of the rest of Mississippi, it's a pretty blue place. Mayor Eric Simmons runs a law firm with his brother, his twin, Derek Simmons. Eric and Derek at the Simmons & Simmons Law Firm. When he first ran for mayor in 2015, he won his seat with 73% of the vote.
No one even bothered to challenge him when he ran for re-election last year. I tried to reach the mayor when I started reporting this story, but he didn't call me back right away. Dr. Singh had the same problem when he tried to call the mayor. I spoke to his secretary. I told him the problem. I said, I just passed by Walmart, Lowe's, and they're all full, like Black Friday. So we need to do something. But he didn't call me back. So two days later, I called him again.
We again left a message with the secretary, and he did not call me. The mayor wasn't returning his calls. Dr. Singh was getting frustrated. The thing is, there is no other priority. There is no other important thing that needs to be taken care of. And he should respond. And even if he does not like our idea, he can give us some idea, and we can work together. I have not heard anything from him.
On March 30th, Mayor Eric Simmons finally did something that made Dr. Singh feel a bit better, though they didn't end up talking until later. The mayor's office released a three-page statement announcing all kinds of new rules to try to slow the spread of the coronavirus in Greenville. The city announced it was closing all city tennis courts, golf courses, and outdoor basketball courts. It was limiting access to City Hall.
And it was clarifying an earlier order that prohibited people from gathering in groups of more than 10. The statement clarified that it applied not to just going out, but also to any private gatherings. The statement also strongly encouraged people to self-quarantine for 14 days if they'd recently traveled. And these all seemed like good ideas, common sense policies, to help keep the people of Greenville as safe as possible. But then, a week later...
The mayor went a step further. He announced an order.
A new rule for the town. Effective immediately today, April 7, 2000. That quite rapidly would lead to civil disobedience. This is the most important story right now in America. Roadblocks set up by police. If I can see your license, I'm giving you an opportunity. That's totally outrageous. Thousands of dollars in fines. Your constitutional rights are gone now. I don't know what country he thinks he's living in. A lawsuit and even the involvement of the U.S. Department of Justice.
all in the small city of Greenville, Mississippi, population 29,898. Effective immediately today, April 7, 2020, the Greenville City Council puts in place an executive order that all church buildings close. The mayor of an incredibly religious city, right in the middle of the Bible Belt, had basically just canceled church.
He killed at least 19 people during the 1980s in South Africa. Very dark times. People were desperate. We were looking for him. We couldn't find him. And nobody knew where he was. Every single one of his victims was black. He reached such a stage where he was now hunting. World of Secrets from the BBC World Service. Season 3, The Apartheid Killer. Search for World of Secrets wherever you get your BBC podcasts.
The city of Greenville's full order clarified that churches could still use their buildings to broadcast services online, provided that the production team was fewer than 10 people, but everything else had been banned. And not just regular in-person church. There's a kind of service that sprung up at churches across the country in the past couple months. Drive-in services. The idea is that people can pull up in front of a church, in their cars, windows up, turn on their radios, and listen.
to their pastor preaching over a radio signal. It's a way to go to church without going in church. Social distancing for Sunday mornings. The city's order banned those kinds of services too. Hello? Hi, I was trying to reach Pastor Scott. This is he. Arthur Scott is the pastor of a church called Temple Baptist in Greenville. A while back, he was listening to Christian radio and he heard a story about a church in South Carolina
that was using low-frequency radio to do drive-in services. And I thought, well, that's a great idea. They can do it over there. Why couldn't we do it here? And so we fixed the thing where I could preach in my pulpit and the people could drive up in their cars. And I preached on the radio for about a half an hour. And then my folks drive home. And we've been doing it for the last...
three weeks because most of our folks are over 65, 70 years old. I'm 82 years old and most of our people are older people. And so most of them don't have all that Facebook and they don't, you know, so if I don't preach to them like that, you know, they won't be able to give anything. So you're not having contact, like physical contact with any of your parishioners?
No, I preach in the pulpit, you know, in the church. Okay. And then the people drive up in their cars and listen in their cars, and then they drive home, you know? So you're like preaching in like an empty church. Well, I was, but my daughter and some of them put Mickey Mouse in there and Big Bird and bears, and so I preach in the stuffed animals. In the pews? Yes.
In the pew. Oh, my gosh. Did that help you kind of better visualize your parishioners? Yeah, well, they just did it kind of as a pick-me-up for me because I can't preach to none of my people in the church. Yeah, that's weird. It's got to be weird. And then last Wednesday night, I was preaching on the Queen of Sheba in the Bible. I was preaching on the Queen of Sheba.
Pastor Scott was in the church, so he had no way of knowing what was going on in the parking lot outside. Chris Owens was in the parking lot of Temple Baptist that night, listening to Pastor Scott's sermon on his radio. As soon as Owens saw the police pull up, he turned on Facebook Live and started recording.
Is this an official ticket? Yes, it's an official ticket. You'll get a copy. Your court date, 8 June of 2020 at 9 a.m. at 302 Main Street. Thank you, sir. You have a blessed night. Just handed a ticket by a man with no gloves. Gave me an e-pin to sign it that he was not wearing gloves. They forced us to make human contact. Your city dollars at work for you.
We had 20, 25 cars and every one of them got one. And some were two in a car and the husband and wife got them. Oh, they each got one? Each got one. Yes. I got a $500 ticket too. And my wife, hey listen, my wife's got lung cancer and they gave her a $500 ticket too. Was she in the car or was she inside the church? She's in the car. No, she's in the car. Oh, wow. Okay. So you've got a $1,000 total fine here.
Yeah, I do. Are you going to pay it? No. How come? I'm not paying tyranny. To me, that's tyranny, trying to stop the Word of God. I'm not promoting that. I'm not going to pay it. I mean, listen, I've preached in 35 countries around the world, and a lot of them communist countries, and I've never seen nothing like that. We're
We're meeting in cars where the wind is up. Yeah. Hey, you drive, every place you go, you drive. I mean, what would be the difference driving up to church or driving up to Walmart? I don't understand because the Sonic restaurant is right down the street, and you can drive down there and sit in the car, but then you can't come to church and do that.
And so, I mean, and to me it's important because people need Jesus. And so we're just trying to preach the gospel and get folks saved and try to be a blessing, you know. That's all we're doing. Has the mayor called you or have you talked to the mayor? I've tried to call the mayor. I got a secretary. I never did get him. Okay.
You know, I don't know. I haven't said anything personal against him because I don't even know. You can't have something personal against people if you don't know them. I don't even know him, you know? Yeah, yeah.
Hey, I've been here 45 years. I've never made a complaint, never been to the city hall griping about nothing, you know. I'm not going to war with nobody. I'm not trying to fight nobody. I'm not trying to—I'm not bitter against the mayor or anybody else. But we can't take this lying down when they try to stop you from preaching. But, hey, but the bad part about it is my preacher friend across town—
They sent 20 cop cars over there last night to his church, and they shut him down. They shut him down altogether last night. Wow. What church was that? This is the King James Bible Baptist Church here in Greenville. After I got off the phone with Pastor Scott, I looked up King James Bible Baptist Church. It's a super small church. The entire congregation is just like 30 people.
The church's slogan is a place where the excitement hasn't exited. Yes, this is King James Bible Church where Pastor Hamilton, where I'm the pastor of the church at. I'm a good citizen. I ain't breaking no law. I ain't selling no drugs. I'm just preaching the word of God. Unlike Pastor Scott, Pastor Hamilton goes outside to preach to people in their cars. And Pastor Hamilton was about to do his regular drive-in service when the cops showed up. And the pastor took out his phone and started recording.
Look at this, y'all. City of Greenville on a church property. And look at all these police cars here. They got more police here at King James Bible Baptist Church. And they do Nelson Street, Taylor Street, Carver Circle. Look at all the police cars. In the video, you see a row of Greenville police cars. There are tons of them, nine or more. Look at this, y'all. There's more police pulling up. They ain't done.
A police officer gets out of one of the cars. He's wearing a face mask, and he has a piece of paper in his hand.
Maybe a copy of the city's order. We're going to get tickets. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Another cop walks up and starts talking to Pastor Hamilton. The police officer was saying, we have an order that says your rights are suspended. Our right don't come from authority. It comes from the Bible. So the authority does not have the right over the Constitution.
The U.S. Constitution that was given to us by our forefather, Tate Reed can't take it away. Eric Simmons can't take it away, nor the police officers. It can't. It's hard to make out, but the police officer just said that your rights can be suspended by the military. No, it can't. Hey, look at this, y'all. They don't have this when a murderer's in Greenville, y'all. When I sold drugs, I never seen this many police officers. When I was a drug dealer, I never seen that many of y'all come here. Never. We're in Greenville, Mississippi, the Bible Belt.
Now even more officers have gotten out of their cars. They're standing around watching Pastor Hamilton. Look at this, y'all. Detectives and everything. Every officer on duty is at the King James Bible Church. And all the police here, who patrolling the streets?
Pastor Hamilton turns his phone around, so he's looking right at the camera. What have happened to America, Facebook? I just want to let y'all know this. We had 20 police cars come to the church on the church property trying to tell us we can't have service. If y'all don't wake up, America, our freedom can be revoked. This is America. This video from this tiny church blew up on Facebook. People commented from all over the country. And in the world of conservative media,
This video was big. The story made the Daily Caller and the Federalist and the Washington Examiner and even Tucker Carlson's show on Fox News, where an audience of approximately 3 million people was introduced to Pastor Hamilton. Pastor, thanks so much for coming on. I would like to know, and if you know the name, I hope you'll say it on the air, who made this decision to hassle your church with armed police officers? What politician decided that was a good idea?
Eric Simmons, he's a mayor. He's a supporter of Joe Biden. He made a decision to not have drive-in service. I can tell you when 20 plus cars came to our church, we felt intimidated. We felt frightened. And I heard about this in China. I heard this about in Congress. After seeing all this, I called Pastor Hamilton's church, King James Bible Baptist.
But the voicemail was full. Later that day, my phone rang. Hello, this is Madeline.
Pastor Hamilton had seen my number on his church's caller ID and called it back. Pastor Hamilton told me this had been the busiest 48 hours of his life.
But, he told me, he felt like God had prepared him for this moment. I've been called a pastor. I've been called to preach. That's my calling. That's not something I volunteer for. It's not a career. To me, it's a calling. Is that your phone ringing off the hook in the background? Yes.
Yes, I'm trying to. I know what I need to do. I need to unhook this phone so nobody won't call. Thank you for your time. No, no, no. I didn't mean to. It's just a sign of how busy this day is, how many phone calls you're getting. Yes, but it's a blessing. I talked to my manager. I sell cars at a dealership in Vicksburg. And my manager, he respects me. Matter of fact, my manager is going to start coming to church here. Okay.
Okay. Yeah, and so, but he said, Charles, embrace the publicity you're receiving and use it, the platform, in a great way. So I'm going to embrace what the Lord is doing. In the days that followed, Pastor Hamilton's Facebook audience continued to grow. And then Pastor Scott from the church across town filed a lawsuit against Mayor Simmons. The lawsuit asked the court to declare the city's order unconstitutional and overturn it.
I tried calling the mayor again, but I couldn't reach him. And all this was happening in the days leading up to the biggest holiday in the Christian religion, Easter. An Easter that had somehow, in just a few days, turned from a solemn religious holiday into something else, some kind of showdown. So what do you think is going to happen tomorrow, Easter? I don't know what's going to happen, but we will have service. And how are you feeling about the fact that you're going to be back there tomorrow?
I'm excited that we have a service tomorrow, but in the back of my mind, I'm wondering, like, will they come again? I have no idea what's going to happen. Your guess is as good as mine. Across town, Pastor Scott was also getting ready. All I'm going to be doing Sunday is what I've done for 45 years, get up and preach, you know? Yeah. There's some hills it's not worth dying on, but this hill's worth dying on. And so are you willing or prepared to go to jail for this?
I'm willing, prepared, and able to go to jail. Have you thought about that? Yeah, I've thought about it. But jail don't scare me. What scares me, people dying that don't hear the word of God and dying and going to hell and burn forever. That scares me worse than going to jail. And then it was Easter. Testing, testing, testing. It is Sunday, Easter morning. I'm in my apartment.
And this is the weirdest Easter I think I've ever had. Normally I'd be with my family. Instead, I am about to watch a Facebook Live video of a Baptist service in Greenville, Mississippi, alone. I have no idea what's going to happen. All right. Let me see what's going on at Temple Baptist Church, the White Baptist Church. Oh, they are live with their Easter Sunday service. Welcome to the Sunday morning service of Temple Baptist Church. It's Easter!
Jesus has risen. Pastor Scott is at the pulpit inside the church up at the altar in front of a large wooden cross. He's wearing a bright yellow suit jacket. On the front of his podium, there's a tidy little sign. It says, don't quit. I have a little statement that I'd like to read. It says, many of you are aware of a lawsuit that was filed on Friday. And while I don't want to take up much time on this, I felt I must briefly comment on it.
We've found suit to protect our fundamental freedoms, our fundamental right to worship our Lord and Savior. This has absolutely nothing to do with monetary gain. This has everything to do with our freedom. Nothing more, nothing less, but freedom. So with that, let's get on to the main reason we're here today, to worship Almighty God.
Meanwhile, across town. Pastor Hamilton is on mic outside in the rain, like under this like covering in the alcove. So he's wearing his suit and he's talking right to the camera.
Okay, I just looked online and there's a tornado watch effective right now. Heavy thunderstorms. The rain is really coming down. He is preaching in a thunderstorm in the Delta with a tornado watch on Easter Sunday in the middle of a global pandemic. There is a lot happening.
Oh my gosh. I'm going to go in, y'all. And Pastor Hamilton turns as the thunder is crashing down and runs inside. Easter morning had come to a close in Greenville, Mississippi. No one had gone to jail. No one had gotten arrested. No one even got a fine. The day after Easter, Mayor Simmons gave a press conference to address the controversy about drive-in church services.
He walked out of City Hall wearing a surgical mask, walked to the podium, and took the mask off. Thank you all for coming to this press conference. A train rumbled by. The mayor said this whole thing had gotten out of control. Recently, a smear campaign against me and the city that I love has begun to suggest
He said he'd actually gotten death threats. Incomprehensible, hateful, and divisive in a time where we should be reunited.
And he announced that in an effort to, quote, move forward in a united front. The city would not require anyone to pay the fines issued on April 7th for the violations of the city council order. But the mayor was adamant about one thing. The Greenville City Council order stands and will stand at this time. In the city of Greenville, Mississippi, drive-in church services were still illegal.
The next day, the U.S. Department of Justice, led by the highest law enforcement official in the country, Attorney General William Barr, got involved. The department filed a statement of interest in the lawsuit that Pastor Scott had filed against the mayor. The DOJ was on the side of Pastor Scott. The statement said that the facts of the case, quote, "...strongly suggest that the city's actions target religious conduct."
The attorney general was saying that it appeared that the mayor had singled out churches for more strict treatment than other kinds of places, like fast food drive-thrus. The statement said it appeared that what the mayor had done violated the Constitution. The very next day, the mayor announced that the city would allow drive-in church services as long as parishioners stayed in their cars with the windows rolled up. The drive-in pastors had won.
I finally reached Mayor Simmons after the order had been walked back. He was at his law office in Greenville. I tried to ask him why he changed his mind. I wondered if he thought he'd made a mistake. But what the mayor really wanted to talk about was how unfairly he felt he'd been treated in this whole thing. Well, for me, I'm here.
As a Christian, as a vessel to do God's will, and I'm serving people. You know, our aim is to protect the over 30,000 folks that we have here in the city of Greenville. You get what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, people attacked Jesus Christ, and the folks who did were Christian folks. You get what I'm telling you? And then they crucified him. And they crucified him. Why has this gotten so heated? You know...
You have, I think, a false narrative. The false narrative you're talking about is people saying that you are trying to attack religion. Yeah, and when I ran for mayor in 2016, I ran in mayor to put on the whole armor of God and put on the best breastplate, and I'm doing all of that. I'm a God-fearing Christian.
My wife, my kids, we pray in the morning, the noon, day, and the evening. We attend church every week. And what I'm charged to do is do the right thing. You know, the commandments say, love thy neighbor as thyself.
It would be less than love for us to see violations, for us to know of those violations, for us to know that people's lives have been placed at risk and for us not to act. Oh, we're here to make sure that we protect and save the lives. And that's everybody. That's everyone. We're charged to do that for everyone, despite their motivation or their agendas or false narratives that they continue to put out. And you had mentioned, I think, at a press conference that your family had received death threats. Is that right? Yes.
Yes, we have a series of death threats. We have a Facebook post of someone saying that they wish they blew a hole in my chest and they would do that. Blew a hole in your chest? Yes, a hole in my chest, yes, ma'am. Wow. And right now, we still have a detailed security at my home, yes, ma'am. Oh, wow. So you actually have had to have security at your house? Yes, yes, ma'am. It's just insanity.
The mayor told me that the city issued its April 7th order because some people at drive-in church services weren't being particularly careful. We had a number of violations of drive-in services. You got folks getting out their cars, congregating, hugging, and doing things like that. All right? Uh-huh. Not following social distancing. They just getting out fellowship. And Mayor Simmons told me the city didn't have enough police to monitor every church in town on Sundays to make sure people weren't getting out of their cars.
As for why the city changed the order, according to the mayor, it didn't have anything to do with the media attention or the lawsuit or the hundreds of comments on Facebook condemning him. Basically, the mayor said that the week after Easter, he asked the governor of Mississippi for guidance on how to handle drive-in church services. And he said the governor told him that drive-in services were actually safe as long as people keep their windows up.
The mayor didn't say the order was a mistake or went too far. And he said, if you want to know whether the city of Greenville is doing a good job handling coronavirus, you should look at the numbers. You know, we look at transmission rate. We have done a great job in reducing that. If these orders were not in place and we have not taken those bold steps, I think we would be well over 100 cases. And what are your numbers right now?
We have 71 cases. We have three deaths. And I cannot play politics with the lives of folks here in the city of Greenville. And I will not play politics. Our interest is the health and safety of over 30,000 residents in the city of Greenville. In order to prevent and spread COVID-19 and protect and save lives, this is exactly what I will do.
After Mayor Simmons announced that the order had been changed, I gave Pastor Hamilton a call one last time. We talked about the Bible study he'd held the night before and about the massive storms that had rolled through on Easter Sunday. What was going on out there?
Man, it was thundering, lighting, storming. It almost seemed like a tornado was about to come and sweep the place up. It was so dark. And the more I preached louder, the thundering got. And I don't like the thunder and lightning. I'm like a big kid. I run when I hear thunder and lightning. So I kept trying to preach.
kept trying to preach. After a while, I was like, man, I can't preach outside. But to me, I know God made lightning and thundering, but it bring a little fear to me a little bit.
When I reached him, Pastor Hamilton was still celebrating the news about the drive-in services. Today's been a very emotional day. I started out this morning, I was very emotional in my car. And now today I can sit back like, man, God has really performed a miracle. Like last Friday this time, we was in a fight. This Friday, we're in victory. So to me, like seven days have brought about a big difference in seven days. And
And today I'm really actually able to look back and see what God has done just in a short few days. Are you talking to me, by the way, from your job at the car dealership? Yes, I'm at work right now. What's it like juggling selling cars and dealing with the drive-in church service? What's it been like?
Last week, honestly, I've got all what's going on in my mind, what's going on in Greenville, what's going on in the legal process, what's going on with the city, what's going on with this and that. And so I haven't really been interested in selling a car. Like that drive really just came back yesterday. Like, you know what? I need to sell some cars.
What are you going to do the rest of your day? Hopefully right now, I just came from Chick-fil-A and I sold one car so far today. Hopefully I can sell two more before the day I went. And hopefully the rest of the day, I want to sell a few cars. All right. Well, it's been great to talk to you. And yeah, I wish you all the best. Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to do an interview with you. I pray that God bless you for it.
This past Sunday, both Pastor Scott and Pastor Hamilton held their drive-in services. Welcome to the Sunday morning service, Temple Baptist Church here in Greenville. This time, the sun was out, the cops were not. I'm always glad to have folks listen to preaching. Pastor Scott thanked his parishioners for joining him, though he couldn't see them. Keep the windows up. So glad to have you today. And he introduced a song that made its way from the church through the radio
to the speakers of the cars of his parishioners outside. Come home, my friends, that I loved yesterday. Come home, come home, the songbirds are singing, and they'll sing to say, come home.
In the Dark, Coronavirus and the Delta is reported and produced by me, Madeline Barron, managing producer Samara Fremark, producer Natalie Jablonski, associate producer Raymond Tungakar, and reporter Parker Yesko. This series was edited by Catherine Winter. The editor-in-chief of APM Reports is Chris Worthington. This episode was mixed by Corey Schreppel.
Music for this series is by Gary Meister. Coming up next week, we'll take you inside Parchman Prison and hear from inmates about how they're trying to stay safe.
Hi, this is David Remnick, and this year's New Yorker Festival returns October 25th through the 27th. We'll be joined by Rachel Maddow, Sarah Bareilles, Atul Gawande, Seth Meyers, Mohsin Hamid, Audra McDonald, The National, Julio Torres, Ayed Akhtar, and many others. Plus live podcast recordings and panels on politics, literature, technology, and much more. And you can learn all about it at newyorker.com slash festival.
I'm David Remnick, host of the New Yorker Radio Hour. There's nothing like finding a story you can really sink into that lets you tune out the noise and focus on what matters. In print or here on the podcast, the New Yorker brings you thoughtfulness and depth and even humor that you can't find anywhere else. So please join me every week for the New Yorker Radio Hour, wherever you listen to podcasts. From PR.
