Sasha Pieterse: How to Thrive in the Spotlight | E130
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Something that we all hope for, it's happened to me, it's happened to you. Big breaks, your big break of a lifetime, landing this incredible role ever on TV. This is a good roller coaster example of emotions that happen in our industry. I got this really, really cool show that I was really excited about. Got to see my dressing room, got all the outfits set for that first episode and just overall really thrilled about the process. I was 11. I went home that day and we got a call the next morning that I'd been replaced.

We'd celebrated everything. We had gotten all of our family and friends together. And then we got the call that I was replaced. I had to deal with that rejection. Went straight back to auditioning for things. And the next project I got was Pretty Little Liars. And it all happened in a really short amount of time. I would not have been available for Pretty Little Liars if it wasn't for getting kicked off that show. You can dwell on something and you can be really upset about it, and naturally so, but if you let it take over your life, it can ruin other opportunities.

Welcome to In Search of Excellence, where we meet entrepreneurs, CEOs, entertainers, athletes, motivational speakers, and trailblazers of excellence with incredible stories from all walks of life. My name is Randall Kaplan. I'm a serial entrepreneur, venture capitalist, and the host of In Search of Excellence, which I started to motivate and inspire us to achieve excellence in all areas of our lives.

My guest today is Sasha Peterson. Sasha is an actress, model, singer, songwriter, author, and entrepreneur. She starred in the hit TV series Pretty Little Liars and its spinoff Pretty Little Liars of Perfectionists for eight years, is the author of the cookbook Sasha in Good Taste, and

the host of the podcast Women in the Nude, and the CEO and co-founder of the cannabis-infused beverage brand Hippie Water, which we're going to talk about later in the show. Sasha, thanks for being here. Welcome to In Search of Excellence. Thank you so much for having me. I love that intro. Appreciate it. Well, you're incredibly talented. I'm excited to delve into all of your background, all your accomplishments. But let's start with your family.

Your parents were international acrobatic dancers. They were. Who toured the world for 12 years before they immigrated to Las Vegas when you were three years old. That's so great that you know that. Yeah, my parents. So I'm from South Africa, like we're saying. My whole family is still there, actually, except for my parents.

And I had quite the childhood. We lived in Nice for a year while they were on a dance contract. And shortly after, we immigrated to the States, Nevada, actually. So Vegas. I got my first taste of Vegas very young. And I fell in love with the industry kind of by accident. We had family friends that were in Vegas that had their kid in the industry. And so I kind of just started with photography, like print commercials. And I loved it.

Didn't want to didn't want to stop. What kind of lessons did you learn from your parents? They were traveling all the time. They're very professional acrobatic dancing, obviously takes a tremendous amount of teamwork, homework, practice. What did you learn from them watching them in their careers? Well, I mean, more and more as I get older, as when I was younger, it was work ethic.

finding something that you love to do at a very young age, being so passionate about something is very lucky. Not a lot of people have that and not a lot of people have the opportunity to pursue it the way that I did. So they sacrificed a lot for, to let me do what I love to do. My mom became a stay at home mom so that she could teach me and drive me to auditions and, and pursue that passion. And so they, they,

essentially ended what was their career in order for me to follow my dreams. But I think that's also just because they knew what that felt like. They both started in dance very young and

when they met, it was a fairly immediate connection. They were both doing that type of partnership. And so when they joined together, it became this beautiful thing that they enjoyed together, traveled together, saw the world together. And that's, again, not something that a lot of people get to do. As I get older, I

I have realized that I've kind of followed that path in many ways. A lot of it is luck. A lot of it is hard work. Of course, I love my job. But when I met my now husband, he's on the other side of the industry. So what's nice about that is that we not only love the same things.

But we get to travel and be parents in the same way that my parents have in many ways. Keeping a family unit together and strong, being able to do all the things that we love together is rare. And so the older I get, the more and more I appreciate it, I think.

I think 99% of people in the world don't start their careers until they either graduate high school or college or graduate school. It's true. So let's talk about year by year. I don't want you to jump that far forward too much, but you started your career at three years old. So a three-year-old can't say, hey, mom and dad, I want to be in commercials. I want to act. So how did that whole thing start? Yeah, of course. So I think, you know,

I just loved being in front of the camera. So, you know, photographers taking photos. When you were three. Yeah, when I was around three and a half. And I think the reason is you either love it or you don't. You know, like Hendrix, my son, loves it. But there are plenty of kids that are a little too shy or just, you know, don't want anything to do with that. Yeah.

Um, and so I was the opposite. I was the kid that wanted to be in fun clothes and dance in front of the camera. And, um, as far as commercials go, I just, I thought it was like this, you know, at that age, I feel like it's dress up, you know, it's, it's like, um, it's part of your imagination and you're, you get to do these fun things and you get to go fun places. Um,

I don't think you at all, or at least I didn't understand the pressure of it at that age. It was just fun. And that's also a testament to my parents that kept it that way. I remember from a very young age them saying, you know, if there's ever a day that you don't want to do this,

you know, we don't have to, you don't have to. They were not the stage parents. They weren't the ones that were like, you know, this is how it has to be. And this is how you're going to make your living and support us. I never felt pressure from them in that way. And I think that's also a big portion of it where I felt like I had that decision from very early. Um, and so it did feel like something that I love to do and everything became geared towards, um,

Making that a reality, again, not in a forced way, but it was like, okay, well, if this is what you want to pursue, this is what you have to do and the pathway to get there. Do you want it? So I always felt like I was making that decision over and over again, even with school.

So I always looked older than I was. And so I was going for all of these roles that were older than I was, which is a challenge in the industry because it's all based on how many hours you can work. So if I'm going for somebody that's in high school, they're hiring 18 and older to play those roles.

For lots of reasons, but one of the main reasons is because they get to work as long as they need to. You're saying that there are childhood California labor laws or laws in every state that you can only work a certain number of hours a day. When you turn 18, the world opens up that they can just work you to death. Exactly. And that is the difference. So, you know, I think at around nine, I was able to be on set for, I think,

This might be wrong now, but I think around six hours, three of those were school. So you really have such a small window to get everything done, which is nearly impossible. And so what we pursued once I got Pretty Little Liars was essentially fast tracking my progress.

school, my life in school. So I graduated just after I turned 14, which is annoying because I was like, 13 sounds so cool. I'd rather be 13. But no, I just turned 14 when I graduated high school. And that would never have been possible in normal circumstances if it wasn't for my mom being...

willing to make that happen. Um, but again, it was something that I wanted to do and I don't think it was a sacrifice of education. I mean, we worked really hard to, to make that happen. Um, and so when I started Pretty Little Liars, we did the pilot when I was 12, we started the first season when I was 13. So they had those restrictions. They took a chance on me essentially. Um,

at 13 and then by 14 I was able to work as long as they needed me to. I remember the first episode that I did once I was free was I think I worked I don't know it was overtime it was the first Halloween episode and

I mean, I was on premises for like 17 hours. I was like, oh, surprise. This is what happens on set when you can work as an adult. But yeah, everything in my life before I was 18 was geared towards this. So a lot of people who don't live in LA and don't own the business don't realize that the key ingredient or necessary ingredient to getting a role is getting an agent. Talk to us about when you were four years old, how you got your manager and how that

four and a half years old, how that whole thing came about? - It's a great question because yes, it's extremely difficult and also now the business has changed dramatically. When I was getting into the industry, it's actually much easier to get into the industry as a kid, as a young kid.

And so today it is or was that maybe still today, but then then it was much easier. So my our family friends, their son's agency, she was like, you know, you should submit her photo and see if they'll at least see her take her.

And so we had a meeting with them and I was just super lucky. They signed me for print and commercials. I got my first commercial, which I always love talking about, not because I'm cool like that, but because I literally did nothing in the commercial. This is the one where you were sleeping in a Christmas. Yeah, yeah. And that was a great job. That was a really easy job. Weren't you also in a winter bread ad as well? I was. I totally was. No, I think that was...

Oh, maybe that was before that. You know more than me. I think he did the winter bread a year before. That was a print campaign. And then he did the Lexus commercial, I think, the following year. Yeah, that absolutely could be. You're six years old when you did the Lexus commercial, I believe. I believe you. I completely believe you. I need to go back and fact check. That's hilarious. Yeah, probably. Again, easy job. I just had to eat bread with some butter on my face. Yeah.

As you're going for these as a young kid, though, I mean, you're going to meet an agent, right? Or a manager. A manager, not an agent. So you need a manager first. Oh, it was an agent first? Yeah. That was the key thing while your parents moved to Los Angeles. Once you got the agent. I got the agent first while we were still living in Nevada. And so my mom, we were driving from Vegas to California, which was like four and a half hours there to go to an audition and then driving home that night.

And we would drive four and a half hours back that night. And if I got a call back for the audition, sometimes we'd have to turn right back around on our way home and go back to L.A. and go to that call back. It was really intense.

It was a lot. For my mom specifically, I mean, I was sleeping in the car and eating at Donald's and I was fine. But yeah, she was the one handling all that. And that was before GPS. So we were looking at maps and trying to figure out. The Thomas guy?

Mainly because that's how you get booked. They're the ones that not only send you out on auditions, but they are the ones that sign your or like develop your contracts and and make sure that you're getting a good deal. Manager for the most part is mainly just.

giving you direction in your career and their connections. Those are the two really important things of a manager. Right. We're going to come back to year by year in terms of your career progression, but let's stay on that for a second because you know tons of people. I live in Los Angeles too, especially when I moved out here. I was 23 years old and I met a lot of people. I want to be an actor or actress. I think now they're all referred to as actors, not actresses. I think it's a preference. Okay, it's a preference. And everyone says, how do you get...

a manager. And I have friends now who are managers. Most of my friends now my age, if they're still managing, people are very successful. And I hear these crazy stories about what people do to get just, but what's your advice to people? How do you get noticed? You're 21 years old. You need a manager. You're out here. And what do you do? It's, and this is why I say that the business has changed because I think, I personally think it's even harder now. You used to be able to just

you know, submit your picture or, or maybe like a video or, or something that, you know,

proved that you could do it essentially or that you had the right look. Now it's much more difficult. And I think mainly it's because of social media. So it's both better and worse. There are so many people that are out there looking for managers or looking for agents. And as much as it's generally available for you to submit something,

they don't really look at it. And so if you have a decent social presence, you'll have a much easier time getting somebody to pay attention to you. Yeah, but you look at like Brad Pitt was a waiter. I mean, all these... Yeah, but that was, no offense to Brad, it was a long time ago. Yeah, it was a long time ago. But how do you build a social media presence when you've never been in a show before?

And I mean, I... This is the whole dilemma. And it's, in general, such an amazing tool of, you know, being an influencer in so many ways, showcasing what you're good at. If it's singing, if it's being funny, if it's like creating different scenes, if it's TikToks, if it's... It's about essentially finding what you're good at and marketing the shit out of it. And, you know, I think...

There's a lot of people that get viral for something either on purpose or by accident, and people will pay attention to them. Like, for instance, there's a lot of amazing TikTokers that are now a CAA, which somebody tries their whole career to get to an agency like that, right? So the game has changed. In some ways, it's unfair for people that have been, you know, trying to get there for so long. But at the same time, it's also an amazing thing because now...

So many people from all over the world, not just in the U.S., can start a career. So I don't have a very clear answer for you, not because I don't want to, but because just like Brad, I've been in the industry for almost 25 years and I don't even really know where to point somebody. Social is the most common now, I feel like.

And then, you know, there's good old trying to mingle, whether that's, you know, trying to make friends with somebody that is hosting an event and can get you in there. And maybe you'll meet somebody that won't know somebody that will know somebody that can, you know, organize a meeting for you with a manager. But it's not easy. And if for some reason you get in, it's generally a luck thing versus a talent thing, if that makes sense.

We're going to talk about ingredients of success later in the show and talk about luck as an ingredient of success. But let's go back when you were younger, and you've said this several times before that it's intoxicating to be on the set. What does that feel like and what's intoxicating about it? I think it's slightly different for everybody, but for me it's...

It's really just, I think, the combination of people coming together to make something special. There's something about being on set, whether it's crafty, they'll say the same thing. Like a couple of people that are friends of mine in crafty, which is just craft service, that's just snacks and lunch and that sort of thing, that will leave to do a different job and will come back. And it's just because...

It's an environment that is so different than anything else you will ever do. It's hard. It's a lot of hard work. Everybody has a really intense job. I don't think there's anybody that goes on set that has a laid back job. But you get to make something special and then the world sees it. And it's such a...

An interesting time. I mean, I know a lot of people have this with jobs where like you spend more time with them than you do with your own family. But when you create something special and it works, no matter how hard it was, there is this sense of accomplishment that is really rare. And entertainment is one of those things where

It can move people. It can change people. It can make people laugh. It can do so many things. And you get to be a part of that. And I think it's really just, it's not just fun, but, and it's not just rewarding, but it's this like, this group of people that are passionate about something cool. And I think it starts with that. It starts with like, ooh, I want to make something cool.

And when you get that opportunity, it's hard to not want to do it again. And I think it's almost like a game and it's a challenge. It's like, how do I make that good? How do I get back onto a set? How do I get to play a character that I really love? How do I create something that people are going to want to watch? And like many things, it's

Way more likely that you will fail than you will succeed even if you loved filming a project Which I've experienced this quite a bit you loved being on set you love the people that you're working with you're proud of what you did When it comes out it could be shit and then you've got to kind of live with that where it'll be like wow I had a really great experience But it didn't turn out the way that I thought it would turn out when you're shooting a movie that

You think is shit and that is shit. How do you stay focused on that movie? You then, and I don't want to say that you don't try hard because of course you try and do your best always. But you just then try and enjoy everything around you. Do you know a shit movie is a shit movie when you're filming the movie? Most of the time. Most of the time. Yeah.

Yeah. We talked a little bit. Or you understand that there's a variable. You go, ooh, this was a great script or this was maybe a great cast. And then there's this particular variable that could literally destroy it or make it. And then you're like, well, I did all I could do. So I know some musicians we talked a little bit before the show who wrote a song they thought it was terrible and became a number one hit. Right. Have you been in a movie that you thought was terrible that became a hit and it was actually good? Yes.

Yeah, I think a couple. One comes to mind, and this is kind of a silly one, but this is an easier one to talk about without offending anybody. I was in a movie called Sharkboy and Lava Girl, so I'm going to take it way back again. It was the first movie that I did.

And it was super fun to film. With Robert Rodriguez as the director. Yes, yes. Taylor Lautner was in that movie? Taylor Lautner was in there, yeah. So I got to dress up in cool things. And it was really amazing because it was one of the first 3D movies. And I love Spy Kids, so I was working with the same director. And it was just such a fun environment. We were in Texas. It was just a bunch of kids that got to hang out with each other, go to Dave & Buster's after work. And it was a really, really awesome experience. When it came out...

It was... The color correction was off. And I don't think anyone will be offended by this. We just didn't know. It was... 3D was so new. So when you went into the theater, everything was really dark and dull. And it didn't feel like a kid's movie. And it didn't make sense. And honestly, it didn't look like shit. But later...

When the color correcting was fixed and it was on DVD, people started to watch it and love it. And now on streamers, it's had this resurgence, which is super, super fun. But it also trips me out because I've got full grown adults coming up to me saying, oh my God, I love Sharkboy and Lavagirl, which to me is just a weird thing. Or my kids love it. And so certain things kind of live on or like songs, right?

They just kind of have a new life later. And that is, you know, for the entertainment side of the industry, like acting, movies and television, streamers have done...

amazing things for that. I mean, shows get revamped. There's, you know, prequels, there's spinoffs, there's all sorts of things because a show that was really popular or a movie that was really popular just gets, you know, brought back to life. Some shows like Suits were not popular and then now the most successful show on Netflix ever. And

how did that happen? It's like a snowball effect. Yeah, it's great. I mean, Pretty Little Liars, we had such a great run. It was so fun. And then it was on HBO, and now HBO Max has it, and it's so cool. There's a whole new generation that's watching it. So let's go back a little bit as well. Everyone has a big break. You landed a massive show at six years old,

Talk to us about the audition and you're going in and then you get a job here in kindergarten, right? And you're thinking, holy cow, and now...

Family affair. Family affair. You're the star of a Warner Brothers hit show. It was, I mean, that was obviously a really exciting and rewarding moment for me and my parents. And life-changing in so many ways. And also, I think, just reassuring, too. It was like, oh, okay, you know, she's got it. Like, you know, there's something that's here that we, that other people are seeing, too, is, I guess, the way my parents put it. Really fun, the fact that it was a remake. Yeah.

It's a good example, I guess, in this sense where Family Affair was a really popular show decades before that. And to bring that back, I think, was really nostalgic. It was amazing to work with Tim Curry and Gary Cole, legends. And both of them were so wonderful to me in general. Like they were such a it became like a family thing.

Very easily. And I think because it was a comedy, it also wasn't very long. So, you know, your days were shorter and it was just in general really fun. However, we were competing against friends, which is...

you know, an obvious, um, not going to happen. Um, that was just, uh, it's just one of those things. It's the nature of the industry where you try and you make something and you make, you have a lot of fun making it. Um, but outside circumstances kind of just, you know, it sucks. It just, uh, is the name of the game. Um, did you offer a dairy queen when you landed that role or maybe a vanilla ice cream and say, Hey, we're going to celebrate. Um, you know, what do we do? Um,

I don't even remember. I'm sure we celebrated to some degree. Yeah, I think it's one of those. I mean, before we used to, yeah, go out and have like a big dinner. But, you know, I think the industry is really harsh. Like I'm talking about all the fun things for the most part. But I do know that, I mean, from a very young age, my parents were like, you know,

It's going to be all about rejection. The amount of things that you get versus what you go out for is so minuscule. And their version of teaching me how to handle it, which I appreciate now, is when you go out for an audition or you go into a meeting, do your best, you know, try your best, but then forget about it.

So you leave it there. You do as much as you can in that audition and then do your best to not think about it instead of dwelling on it. Because if you dwell on it, you're dwelling on, you know, 50 different auditions that you hope you're going to get and most of them you won't get or none of them you'll get. And I think you can easily get into like a downward spiral or depression or feel like you're not good enough. And I think your insecurities will take over. So if you can go in, do your best, feel like you left everything on the table and make it

more about making a good impression and, you know, whether that's the casting director or the producers or the director, making sure that you do as much as you can to be memorable versus getting the project, that's a much better goal. And I think you see better results because it might not be right for that part, but they could think about you for something else or something else in the future. And so it was always about making a good impression and forgetting about the audition afterwards.

And I think that was really healthy for me at a young age. Yeah, I mean, it's so important what you just said. I mean, people need to like you. Yeah. They need to be impressed with you. They need to respect you. I know a couple people, actors and two musicians in general, one who had a

residency at a very big club who was a pain in the ass to work with. There's a lot of those. And, um, and we know probably some actors in common who can't get roles now because no one wants to work with them. There's plenty of people, talented people for those roles, but what's the lesson in any profession, how important relationships and treating people right and doing your homework and making a good impression is. Um, I could speak to you for like, I think over a day about that, that type of thing. Um,

This is a multi-pronged question for me. I think overall, the bare minimum is treating people with respect. I don't think you should ever go underneath that. And I think depending on your industry or what part of the industry we're talking about, I think it applies in different ways. And I think this is a lesson that you learn over time. It's not something that just clicks immediately, which is respect doesn't mean that you...

start not respecting yourself. You have to know what you're worth.

And you can treat somebody with respect while standing up for yourself, while fighting for something that you think needs to change, while taking a step back or saying no to a project. And sometimes people respect you more for doing those things. But as far as behavior goes, respect for me is the bare minimum. I think when you are on set, there are so many people in our industry that see everyone else as the help.

which is completely unacceptable and not just unacceptable, but it's completely the opposite. Yes, you are the one that is on camera.

But everybody on that set is working to make sure that you look good and that the project is good. And they are actually more important. At least that's how I feel. Sharon Stowe was on my show and she said the exact same thing. That's great because there's a lot of actors that will say the opposite. And I think there's a combination of...

just not being aware. Maybe that's not even your intention, but just not being aware. And to me, what's so amazing about set is learning and hanging out with the people that are making it happen. Just like the way that we're talking right now, we're all from a different walk of life. We all have different experiences and everybody has something to offer. And I have learned way more from different crew members than I have from co-stars. And

I'm so thankful for that. Understanding other parts of the industry only makes you better and only makes you a better actor as far as where to stand, what to look at, what certain things look better than others. That's simple for your craft, but it's actually how to make something the best that it can be and how to make everybody's life easier. Not because you're like,

bending down to somebody and sacrificing something for yourself. But it's just like, we're going to make something really good because we're all going to work together. And I know several actors personally who don't want people to look them in the eye.

who don't want to be talked to, who have ridiculous expectations for things or just won't come out of their trailer if they're feeling eh that day. There is that respect line. But I mean, I feel like I'm kind of all over the place in this thought. I think for all industries, like I'm saying over and over, respect is the bare minimum. But then I think it's also

For me, like as a CEO, or even if it's just somebody trying to climb the ladders, it's more about utilizing the people around you. Like as a CEO, for me, as a new CEO trying to build this company, I know that the people around me that I am putting in place as a team are way smarter than me.

Because I'm hiring that person because they're excelling at what they're good at to make something the best that it can be in my company. I can't do their job. Or if I can, I'm not going to do it as well. That's their specialty and that's why I want them there. And I think that's one of the most important things to remember as a leader. You are not the important one. It's everybody around you. And that's how you build a solid team.

And that's how you work together to make a great project. And sometimes that means you have to wait out the ones that aren't so great. That doesn't mean that just everybody is going to be, you know, at their best working as hard as you are. But it's about making sure that everybody deserves a place and that you respect their place in your industry, whether you're at the top or not.

There's so much in what you just said that I agree with so many great lessons. One of the things, not being in the business, though, which I see is young professionals will go into the workforce and they always will kiss up to the CEO, but they don't know the custodian's name who's cleaning the office and cleaning the bathrooms at night at three in the morning or during the day. And I coach all my interns, my

My professional mentees, I do a lot of professional coaching. It's just important, it's more important

to know that custodian's name as it is the CEO. And people are going to watch it and recognize it. Number one, it's just these people make your life function. Their jobs are important, and you should give them the respect. And I was in Las Vegas shooting some shows six months ago, and I was staying at the Vidara Hotel. And they make you show your key card when you go to an elevator bank.

So I said hello to this guy. Yeah. And he says, can you come here? I'm going to give you a $50 gift certificate to any restaurant. And I said, what for? He said, because you're the only person in three days who said hello to me and acknowledged my presence. Yeah.

Yeah. That's a sad commentary. It's very sad. We talked for 10 minutes. I saw him every day. We became friends. Joe was his name. Retired military veteran, living on a pension, making a second salary. He was working the night shift for extra money to support his family, grandkids. Yeah. Crazy, crazy story. It's so true. And at the end of the day, we're all human, right? I think that's the the

the main reason. But that's really cool. And that in itself is the reason to do it. I worked with Joaquin Phoenix.

who is, to the general public, not... You don't know a lot about him. He's stayed out of the press as much as possible. He's a very, very private guy. And so when I knew that I was working with him, obviously I was really excited, but I didn't know what to expect. He's a method actor. He's very private. He doesn't like to do press. You're not sure what that person is going to be like on set. I was so incredibly surprised and excited

in awe of the way that he behaved on set. Method actors in general, nothing wrong with it, but they tend to be like more private on set as well because they're in their own headspace and they've got things that they're doing to prep for a scene. And as much as he did that, he knew everybody's name from the janitor to obviously every producer and Paul, our director. But he

Said hello to everybody every single day. He met some of my friends once. And I remember on my last day of set, he ran out and said, I'm so sorry. I forgot to say goodbye. I was doing something else. It's nice to meet you.

It's great. And that is memorable and super cool because people don't know a lot about him. I got this little piece of it. And it's nice to know that there's actors out there that exist that are at the top of their game that are incredible, that still understand the way that everything works and how important everybody is.

So, yeah, there's still so many people in our industry that are gems. And it's easy to talk about all the ones that aren't. But it's super cool to know that some of the biggest people in the industry are still solid humans. When you talk about rejection, you gave an answer that's a textbook answer, which is

Treat every job like it's a new job. You have to forget about it. Kind of like when I had a bad shot in pickleball and I'm taking a lesson and it just ruins you for the day or golf. It's obviously different. It's a career and you're studying for these roles, audition. People are looking at you like you're an object in front of people. You're reading. It's stressful. But how can you not get dejected, especially when you're a young person

actor woman man and just sitting there gosh mom i i blew that interview i'm so bummed you gotta be bummed right yeah absolutely i mean failure is part of it and and it is that textbook answer right but how is it actually implemented in life especially when you start really caring about something those were obviously the harder ones when i really wanted a project when i really like you know could visualize myself doing it and then you don't get it yeah it absolutely sucks um

And I'm not saying that it's easy. I think it's about habit. When you make it your habit, it becomes easier. Doesn't mean that it's great. Doesn't mean that you won't be sad about it, that you won't take a week to like be upset about it. Those are all very natural things. But I think when that is a habit, it becomes easier. And

It's just about getting to that place. But I still get sad about things. I still am disappointed. Things will go wrong or I'll give a bad audition. I'll just be like, I totally screwed that up. And you just got to live with it and learn from it. You've got to hope that people give you a second chance or you kind of just have to laugh at yourself and be like, well, that was unfortunate and I...

I'm just going to try and do better next time. You know, with anything, people aren't always on top of their game, whether that's because they had a bad day or a bad sleep or something else is going on in their life that's affecting the way that they're performing in their work life. Everybody goes through that, even if it's just a sick day. And I think it's also about giving yourself grace, allowing yourself to have those bad days sometimes and not...

And know that just because you're striving for perfection doesn't mean that you have to be perfect every single day, all the time.

And I think that's also important as a boss or a leader to understand that, like, just because I want something done doesn't mean that certain things are going to go wrong. And if they go wrong, how are we going to fix it versus let me punish the shit out of you and want you to work just as hard for me, even though I'm not respecting you? Because also at the end of the day, going back to respect, people are not going to respect you and not want to work as hard if they think that you're an asshole.

Because why would they? Why would you work at the top of your game when you know that you're not going to get ahead and you know that you're just going to have your head bitten off? That is not an incentive. And I think that is something that is a lesson that people should learn in all industries, but definitely happens in the acting and the entertainment side. It obviously happens on the business side. And it's also knowing that like,

There's some give and take there. And there's people that will abuse it. There are people that will abuse, like, you know, the things that you give them grace on. But then you understand that balance, that that employee or that coworker is not somebody that you need to give your full energy to.

I think there is a tremendous amount of misconceptions about actors and musicians as well. And again, I love living in LA and just because of the community of where I live and meeting parents and friends and parents of school, meet all kinds of interesting people. I bet. And the truth of it is...

It's not all glamorous. And what I've been told, and this is true of my friends who have both not made it and some of my friends who have major actors and actresses and musicians, most are tremendously insecure. Absolutely. And so talk to us about how insecurity is a motivator and how you overcome insecurity. And then what's your advice to everyone out there who is insecure about what

their looks, their failures. I have failed. I got to keep going. Yeah. Well, I think it's fair to say that everybody has some sort of insecurity. Now that chart, you know, that's either you've got a lot of insecurity or hardly any, but it still exists. It's impossible to not second guess yourself to some degree. I think in our industry, obviously, as an actor or musician, there is a microscope.

where everybody is analyzing every single part of your life. And that's what's really hard. I think what's interesting about being an actor, because I'm going to bring social media back into this, being an actor, there are a lot of insecurities, of course, about

you know, the quality of your work, what you look like, you know, when you don't get a role and somebody else gets a role, you second guess what was wrong with you, why you didn't get picked, which we can talk about that in a second. But yes, natural insecurities, some are unbearable.

But I think as an actor, the reason we love acting for the most part is because we get to put on somebody else's skin or you get to use your insecurities as fuel to understand a character. I think ultimately that's the most important thing of an actor is putting yourself in somebody's shoes, understanding the way that they tick, what makes them who they are, and understanding the journey that they're going to go on in the story that you're portraying. And I think that's

If you're a good actor, that's where the humanity comes into play, where you're putting a lot of your soul into it. And when you say that your insecurity fuels you, that to me is what that means. I've been through a lot of different things in my life that have either made me have certain insecurities or have reinforced them or have made me get over them, whatever that means.

has to play, I pull that into every role. And my most, honestly, my favorite roles to play are fucked up characters. I love dark characters, whether that's dark humor or dramas, but I love the villains. And generally speaking, they're more entertaining because

The nice guys are good for the world, but is it fun to watch? Not always. There's always somebody that's making their life hell. And I think just like an obsession with serial killers, you're like, why is that person the way that they are? You want to know psychologically what makes them so awful because...

It's not simple. A villain is never simple. There's a reason they're doing what they're doing, whatever sort of thing happened to them as a child, certain things that happened to them as an adult, tragedy, insecurities, abuse. Generally speaking, every sort of villain to any degree has gone through something awful. And once you understand that and

and have empathy for a villain, it's way more interesting to play and it's way more interesting to watch. Because at the end of the day, we're all humans and we all have shitty stuff happen to us. And it's the direction that we choose to go. Sometimes we're forced in a direction, sometimes we're not. But it's important to understand it. So that's the actor side. And the way that I'm going to pull in the social side is, I think what's incredibly cool about influencers is that they...

are portraying themselves, which is what actors are not good at. And I say that because an influencer or somebody that's putting themselves out there, whether it's dancing on TikTok or giving advice or cooking, they are letting, they're vulnerable. They're putting themselves out there. Whereas for the most part, I feel like actors don't do that.

They're putting a character out there. And I think there's conflict right now between those two things, whether it's people thinking certain things are unfair or, you know, the way that influencers are getting ahead or whatever the reflection of the industry lies on.

I think those are the main differences. And as an actor trying to make sure that you're utilizing your social to get, you know, ahead because that's what people are looking at, you are having to put yourself out there in ways that we weren't used to before. Yeah.

And I think it's just a different game now. It's a choice between whether you're comfortable with that and whether you're not comfortable with that or what type of face you want to put on, what type of face you want to keep behind closed doors. It's a lot of decision making and then a lot of dealing with

rejection or the hate that you're gonna receive for being you. And that's a scary thing for an actor. It's a scary thing for most people, but that particular career, it's scary because it can make or break your career as a whole.

you might not get hired because of something that you say. And sometimes legitimately, sometimes not so legitimately, but in ways it doesn't always feel like a choice. So there's that aspect to it. But I think it's also now, and when I put my business hat on as a producer or at least trying to understand why certain people get hired, it's really important to look at people's social numbers because sometimes

It's easy advertising. And how can you blame them for that? I'm lucky enough to have built a fan base that I really, really love and have access to. Not everybody has that. Not everybody wants that. But every studio or production company or producer or director is looking at somebody's socials for good reason. So it's a complicated thing.

It's a complicated topic. And I know that that wasn't necessarily what you were asking, but I wanted to throw the insecurity side and social side in that because I think it's very real right now in our industry. And I think there are so many positives and so many negatives. We're going to come back to the haters later in the show because we all have haters. And one of the interesting things about

is when you become successful, there's a lot of people who really are not happy for you. Absolutely. Which is shocking when it happens. You think everyone's good and not everyone is good. Let's go back to something that we all hope for. It's happened to me, it's happened to you. Big breaks in life and your career. So take us through pilot season when you were 12 years old and then...

your big break of a lifetime landing this incredible role on just one of the incredible shows ever on TV. Well, thank you. I will start this out by saying something that's unrelated to Pretty Little Liars and I'll make it quick. But

This is a good roller coaster example of emotions that happen in our industry. I got this really, really cool show that I was really excited about. It was with Kelsey Grammer. And I played his daughter. And it would have been so fun.

I got it. For those people who don't know, Kelsey Grammar had the number one show on TV for 10 or 15 years called The Kelsey Grammar Show. Oh, Kelsey Grammar Show too, yeah. And then what was the show before that that he did? Frasier. Frasier. Frasier was one of the great TV shows ever. Ever, yeah. So you're talking about a show that after that. Yeah, he's a legend. Yeah, legend. Total legend. He's a legend. And I was super, super excited about it, obviously. Yeah.

It was going to be in front of a live TV audience, which like this really doesn't happen anymore. And it was the first day of rehearsals. It was a grueling process getting hired in general. And then first day on set, super excited about it, prepping everything, got to see my dressing room and, you know, got all the outfits set for that first episode and just overall really thrilled about the process. So I was...

Yeah, I was 11. And I went home that day and we got a call the next morning that I had been replaced. We had celebrated everything. We had gotten all of our family and friends together. I had done all of this press for it already. And then we got the call that I was replaced and we didn't really get a reason. We didn't know why, which in some ways is worse. This is a phone call? A phone call, yeah. Your agent calls you? Yeah. Yeah.

Did you cry? Of course, yeah. And I was confused and like other cast members were sending me letters saying they don't know why it happened. I still don't know why it happened, but that's really not the point.

It's about the fact that I had to deal with that rejection, went straight back to auditioning for things. And the next project I got actually was Heroes. The next project after that was Pretty Little Liars. And it all happened in a really short amount of time. And I would not have been available for Pretty Little Liars if it wasn't for getting kicked off that show. And that show ran a season and it didn't go any further than that. And it just kind of shows you like, you know,

There are certain things in life, like you can dwell on something and you can be really upset about it, and naturally so, but if you let it take over your life, it can ruin other opportunities. I was able to recover, and I got Pretty Little Liars, and that was an incredible experience. Obviously never would have changed it. It's definitely the highlight of my career in so many ways. I learned so much on that set. I grew up on that set. And...

Yeah, just remarkable how just a flip of a coin can really change the course of your life. One of the things that I've been teaching for years, and it's so true, and I had so many disappointments in my own life where I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe I didn't get that investment, that job. Some of our greatest disappointments lead to the best opportunities. Absolutely. In so many cases, and this one instance I'll try to get into this deal, this

Amazing entrepreneur was creating an incubator. He was raising $100 million. I kind of knew him. I begged to get in that deal. I was going to invest $5 million in that deal. It was going to be my biggest investment ever. Was so crushed by that. I said, how could I not get that? I have the credentials. I have relationships. I can help. I can be value-add. I was so pissed, by the way. Yeah, yeah. You get mad. You go through all the phases. Yeah. Know what happened to that deal? What? Zero. It was a total goose.

Yeah. And I've had so many instances like that in my career. I mean, it's for everyone out there, for everyone out there who's listening to this, everyone has massive disappointments. Things will turn around, they work out, they always do. And your best opportunities are often going to come from your biggest disappointments. And you know what? It's also like,

Even if something massive doesn't come from that, you still learn from it, right? It's like every failure is an opportunity, not to say that you're going to get something gigantic and career-changing the next thing that you do, but it's about learning, you know, next time maybe you'd be more skeptical.

Maybe you would do better due diligence in some areas. Maybe you learn more about the person before, you know, you're thinking of investing. Whatever it is, I think there's always a lesson and sometimes more lessons in failure than success. And we always look at people's success and like, wow, that isn't so incredible. But we either don't know or don't look into what got them there. And generally that's failure.

So it's, yeah, I think looking at a whole picture versus, you know, what is currently in your face is also just important, not just in business, but in life. Yeah, I, in my own career...

some of my failures. I would not be as successful today as some of the things I've done had I not failed miserably so many times before. And I think failure is a key ingredient of success. And as an entrepreneur, I think we're all going to fail. Absolutely. Not only creating companies, which I've done before, investments,

things that I've done, but I think these are all building blocks to our success. Talk about what it was like being, you're 12 years old, you're on the set. At what point did you realize, holy shit, I'm the star of a massive hit show? Well, like I was saying before as a rejection, you try and not get too excited about something, but in ways it's really hard not to. I think that

All of us, when we were shooting the pilot, which was in Vancouver, it was very cold. And we were all just like sitting in this barn, freezing our asses off in these warming coats. We kind of looked at each other and we're like, is this going to be big? And obviously you hope it's going to be, and you try and kind of temper your expectations. But we were kind of, I guess, adding everything together. We're like, okay, well, it's based on a book series, which...

is either a good thing or a bad thing. Most of the time, I feel like it's a good thing. So you're like, okay, we've got that. Um, ABC family at the time was doing super well. So we're like, Hey, we've got a good network. Um, we've got, you know, a good, we feel like we've got good people around us. We feel like the cast is, is strong and, and that the story is fun. Like,

I think this could really go somewhere. And I remember after filming the pilot, I think it was Catalina Island. My family and I went to Catalina Island and somebody recognized me walking past the window.

The show wasn't out. It was barely announced. But they were a big fan of the book series and knew that I had been cast as Allison and rushed in there and wanted to take a photo. And that blew our mind. You were 14 and just graduated high school when that happened. I was 13. 13. No, I was still 12. I was still 12. And I was blown away. I couldn't believe the fact that somebody even knew who I was in that way. And I think that was kind of like the, okay, this could be something new.

When did you know? When did I know? Yeah, like, no, no. I started to know when I started seeing posters everywhere. When I would go into my local mall and there would be a Pretty Little Liars poster right there. When, you know, back when DVR was a thing, I would, you know, we would see a commercial for Pretty Little Liars. And recognizing, somebody recognizing you is obviously like a big thing.

you know, tip that something is doing well. But I think it was the confidence that the network had in us as well. When we got picked up for our first season, we didn't get picked up for like half the season, which is generally what happens. We got picked up for 24 episodes, which even then, as much as that was common, it was still fairly unheard of for a new show.

Right out of the gate. Well, shows today never go 24 seasons in a full. No, and to be honest, they shouldn't. They really shouldn't. 12 is a big one today. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so that was just like, okay, well, how amazing that, you know, not everything's a guarantee, obviously, but how amazing that not only do we know that we have

this cool experience and that I'm on this show, but also you have guaranteed work. And that is something that I want to go back into just for a hot second when it comes to being on set. Pretty Little Liars, we ran for seven years or seven seasons, seven years, which was incredible. Also one I've heard of. We basically shot 14 seasons because of how many episodes that we had. So we were spending a little over nine months filming the show.

It was a really long time. Thankfully, it was in LA. That was another lucky thing. But what was so cool about that was the amount of crew members that changed on our show. I can pretty much count on my hands. And that is really rare. And so for seven years, the majority of that crew had solid work.

And that was really cool to see. We all became a family, weddings, funerals, I mean, everything that you can think of. We celebrated and mourned together. And we were together with work through lots of hardships, solid for seven years. And that was really cool. And to be honest, there's a lot of women on that show. There's a lot of estrogen going around. And I think we all did pretty well considering it was a really cool experience. And

And like I said, I grew up on that show, everything from graduating high school to learning to drive to I think by the end of, yeah, I was like about to get engaged. I mean, we did it all. I did it all on that show. And that's and that is super cool. And it's a good thing and a negative. There's negatives that came from that, too. But for the most part, a big positive and a good learning experience because it was a healthy set.

Would have been, I think, a lot harder if it was a toxic set. So I'm really thankful in that case that everybody worked to make it as positive as possible. Education, I think, is one of the best investments we can make in our life and our careers. And as a parent, I know this, you know this, as a mother of a four-year-old, you were homeschooled. You're going to homeschool your son or you are homeschooling your son. Yeah.

Six to seven percent of all kids kindergarten through 12th grade are homeschooled. 3.1 million kids in the United States are homeschooled. I love that you know that number. How do you know that the quality of your education is going to be as good as it would in a normal school environment? And don't you miss out on the social aspect of being around a group of people, diverse group of people, male, female, everybody? Isn't that where a lot of your childhood happens? Yeah.

Yes and no. So I feel like that can easily be the case. If I wasn't homeschooled, I don't know if that would have been my choice for him. And so because I had a good experience and I know that our lifestyle is so different, that's why I'm willing to do it. So there's a lot of things that go into this. Travel and the amount of time that I travel, at least for his first couple of years in school, is a lot of time that I spend with him.

you're kind of deciding what you sacrifice. Do we want to keep, you know, our family unit together and travel for work and have him homeschooled so that everything is consistent? Or is one parent always gone for long periods of time just so that, you know, he's going to school at an actual schoolhouse? And that's like the first decision. And for us, it was like,

These early years are so important. And in so many ways, we can give him a better education that is, you know,

really rare, not only because we're traveling and he's seeing cool things that he would never see before, but also we're giving him so much attention in the spaces that he's succeeding at and the necessary attention in the places that he might not be. I wish more kids had a healthier experience with homeschooling and got the opportunity to do it because

Like I said before, my husband had a negative experience with homeschooling. And so because I had a positive, I know the possibilities and what can be done. My mom did something really cool, which is everywhere that we worked, she would

dedicate my school, however long we were there, to that place. So we would learn the history about that place. We would go see different things that made that place special. And we would incorporate it into, or she would incorporate it into our curriculum. How cool is that? And I learned so many lessons based on my travel experiences and an education like that that I think is super valuable and so cool. But...

Every kid is different. And I want to make sure that I'm not being selfish in any way. Of course, I want to be there with him all the time and I want our family unit to stay there. But if there is a better reason for him to not be in that situation, we will pivot and do that. And we're really lucky and blessed to be able to kind of navigate that and find that middle ground, that balance. But at least for the first couple of years, we're going to

try really hard to make sure that not only is his education solid, but that we're really expanding his view on the world. And I think travel is one of the best ways to do that. You get to see different people. You get to see different places. You appreciate the things that, you know, that you have in your home and you appreciate the culture and other, you know,

And I think that is a really cool experience. And seeing that as a young kid and now as an adult, I have a much broader picture and a much broader idea of what the world can be because of that.

And I, you know, every parent thinks that their kid is special, or at least they should. And I know that he's special. I know the interest that he has in the world is super cool. I love seeing it through his eyes. I'm sure you can relate as a father, being able to see your kid's, you know, point of view is so cool. And you have more than one. So I'm sure that's different for all of them. And how cool is that? And so I'm very much learning...

in like through his eyes again. And that's something that people say all the time, but when it actually happens, it's, it's really rewarding. Um, and so finding what he's good at and his strengths naturally without pushing something on him is my goal. Uh, and some people take a long time to find that some people know immediately like I did. And so we're just, I think as a family wanting that for him, wanting to make sure that we nurture those strengths and, um,

you know, figure out what to do with the things that he's not as strong in because naturally that happens. I think that's the other thing with like pressure on kids is trying to make them good at everything

You're not only going to not do that, but you're also going to do a huge disservice to your kid. So, yeah, your value is not based on your grades all the time. And I think that is also something to remember. And that is the luxury of something that I had where, you know, my mom wasn't or my parents weren't just proud of me when I succeeded. They were also proud of me when I failed.

And that is a huge thing that we've instilled in Hendrix at three and a half. He's not technically even four yet. We make sure that he knows that we're proud of him no matter what he does.

Because just as we're learning that there's so much opportunity and lessons in failure, that applies to everything in life, not just business. So for him as a kid, you know, if something isn't as good this time, that's okay. You're not any less valuable because you didn't do well in that test or you didn't color inside the lines. You know, there's always room for that grace, and I think it's important.

You had amazing success at a young age. You were famous. I'm sure people were coming up to you much more than a Catalina through a window. And you hear and you see so many times young, famous actors. And I think about Lindsay Lohan, Drew Barrymore. It really messes them up. Thrugs, the number of stars that hit success at a young age. Zac Efron, who had been at rehab so many times. A lot of them...

Continue and sum it up. How did you stay normal and how did you deal with success at such a young age? Lots of ways. I think because I had, well, first, it obviously always starts at home. So I think the fact that my parents weren't that classic stage parent.

was a huge part of it. You know, a lot of the common denominators in those circumstances are either neglectful parents or parents that are in it for the wrong reasons. And so I think it's also in some ways just

naive. I think that my parents knew the entertainment industry and as much as they loved it, they knew the dance world, which is another animal, but they knew enough about entertainment that they knew what to avoid. And so I think it was about keeping me grounded and not in it all the time.

You know, events are fun. There are a lot of advantages to being an actor that's doing well, whether that's just, you know, like parties or things that you're given or being in those types of environments where things can go wrong. But I think that they protected me in the right ways. And in so many ways, I think I learned kind of like a sponge where I could see that type of thing happening around me and I didn't want it.

Because like we were talking about with glamour, there's two sides to it always. And we knew a lot of people that were child stars that were going in the wrong direction. You could see it happening. You could see it happening. And like I had the contrast between seeing the way that my mom operated on set versus other parents operating on set. And I liked her version way better.

And seeing the difference in real time is, I think, a great thing. And I had started making really good friends that were not in the industry. And I liked being that version when I wasn't working. I liked going to work, having fun on set, doing what I love,

And then going back home and like going to the mall at, you know, seeing a movie, you know, going to school dances versus like going to a party that had like a tray of cocaine. And I think it's all based on

your surroundings, what you think is important at a young age, and what your value system is. So a lot of these child stars are kind of pushed or told that, like, you need to kiss ass to these certain people to get ahead, and that environment includes a lot of toxic things. And they're just kind of like, well, if I want fame, or if I want that movie, or if I want that step ahead, I need to do this. And...

And in ways, yeah, maybe I would be ahead in some ways, but in so many other ways, it would be the opposite direction, if not worse. So I think I played the game right. You know, I'm...

In so many ways, the people pleaser by nature, which I think I've constantly worked on getting out of, not to the level where you take the respect out of it, but to a degree where I said no to so many things in my childhood. But I also said yes to so many things that...

were a disservice to me. And I think it's kind of learning that balance, right? Like, um, kindness is taken advantage of. So there's a difference between kindness and respect and kind of just learning boundaries and, and what that means to you as you get older. But as far as being a kid goes in the industry, I could have easily gone the opposite way if I wanted to. And, and yeah, it's, it's just, it's about environment. It's about, um,

Just the way that you respond to things. And that's all learned. It's all... It's experience-based. It's based on what you see and based on your parenting and, you know, ultimately personality, too. Like, there were things that were happening that I'm like, that's just...

not something that I enjoy. So I'm going to stay away from it. Even dating, I did not want to date an actor. That was a policy for me for a long time because I saw things happen that I didn't want. Going back to actors and insecurity, two actors dating that are super insecure is never a good combination. It's proven over and over and over again that if you are not equally yoked,

If you don't respect each other and you're not, you know, if you don't trust each other, if you don't, all of those things, all of those elements, which apply to every relationship,

But because of what we're talking about as actors, it's incredibly challenging. It's not easy to see someone that you're in a relationship with making out with some random person. It's not easy to be away for six months when you know that that person is making out with another person. There's so many dynamics in there. And I really give credit to my husband because he's not an actor being okay with that. And it's also like understanding like those late nights, like I'm coming home late, honey. It's...

It's for no other reason other than work. All right. So you segued into my next question, which you hit it on the head, but I want to just really hit it even more on the head. How do you just...

prepare to get naked with a co-star and be intimate in front of... We talked before, I was on a movie set once, Alpha Dog, and it is intoxicating and it was intoxicating. And maybe I'll never get back there again, but at least I hit something on my bucket list. And there's 30 cameras, there's 30 microphones everywhere. And there's...

20 to 100 people looking at you. And I know in some of the scenes they clear it out and there's very few, a minimal number. So that weird people looking at you. Right. But how do you do that? And again, I know you're married, but I try to picture myself

Being married and having my wife getting totally naked, hot and heavy with some guy where you can see body parts and they're, they are flesh on flesh. For sure. Um, there's a lot of different layers to this as well. Um, we'll start off with the glamor aspect. It's definitely not as glamorous. Um,

As it sounds, there's weird things like foam in between you or little sticky things that go over all of your private parts that are not comfortable. They could come off. They could come off, and it happens. There's just an element of, we're going to go back to respect here. It can be a really great experience or a really terrible experience. And

Thank goodness we have so many intimacy coordinators now. That's what they're called? Intimacy coordinators, yeah. So what happens with an intimacy coordinator? It's required now. It used to not be. I've had other experiences where it was not. I'll give this example of this last project that I did because there was a lot of intimacy things. Okay.

We laughed so much. So my co-star was also married, also had young kids, and we related to a lot of things. So super helpful, mainly because

As an actor, if you are friends with the person that you're about to make out with or simulate with, it's a lot easier. And it's a weird thing mentally that, like, it's weird that that's part of our job. But, like, if I'm friendly with you or if I'm a friend and I don't feel like you are going to try anything or cross a line or vice versa, it's very easy because I'm

We are also, if we're doing it right, getting into a mindset of like, this is for our characters. This moves the story along for whatever reason. We've choreographed this to some degree and we trust each other. So if we trust each other, that's really all that is truly needed. And an intimacy coordinator makes that happen and can also intervene if one party is being interrupted.

Not okay. Like a referee in a UFC match. Break. For sure. You guys got a break here. So for this project that I did, we went through every intimacy scene and did our best to choreograph it. And everybody is slightly different. Like for us, we wanted a certain amount of choreography. And then you leave room for like natural things to happen where like

It's not just like, okay, I turn here and I turn here. It's the important things where you're like, these are the things that need to happen in the scene. This is what I'm not comfortable with. This is what I'm comfortable with. And it's a lot of like, can I place my hand here? Can I do this? Can I not do that? And really understanding each other's boundaries before you start that scene.

That's really important. So to me, the first layer is, do I trust this person? If I don't trust this person, how do I protect myself and who do I talk to to make sure this doesn't cross a line? Yeah.

Then it's also the not glamorous side of like, yeah, you do have lots of cameras around you and you've got a mic in weird places or a boom and like in different places or a crane looking over you in bed. And it's just there's so many ways where it's it's so unnatural. Yeah.

And again, it goes back to like what type of person you are or what type of relationship you have. I think it would be much harder for me, even hard to talk about it this way, if I had a partner that didn't trust me or was insecure to the point where like it was a negative in our relationship. So I think like for Hudson, obviously he's not like, I'm so excited for you to do the sex scene with this guy. But...

it's also a layer of trust where he's like, I know that's what you're doing at work today. I don't need to be there to see it. I'm probably going to watch the project, but you know, love you. I hope you do good today. I hope you feel confident, which is incredible. So that is like, it's permission in a way that's not

weird because it's like, I want you to feel confident in your body and what you're doing. I don't want you to think about, you know, not doing your best for your character just because of me. I trust you and I know that you're going to do great in this. That is amazing and rare and also just something that you need. Otherwise, it's not going to work.

I don't want to be with my co-star romantically. It's, you know, and that's fact. So as long as that's the case and there's no ulterior motives and your significant other trusts you, that's the dynamic that has to happen in order for it to work. I've had a lot of bad experiences, I'm not going to lie. Luckily, they haven't been to the point where there really needed to be, those experiences were less invasive experiences.

I've had good experiences with the more invasive ones. I don't know how to say that politely. But there are a lot of people... Good experiences with the more invasive ones. Which is the more important one, to be fair. I think it's actor by actor. And that's a little bit of the challenge where it's like you're not sure what you're going to get. Because as we watch this...

We're all thinking watching a TV screen or a movie when we're seeing nudity. Is it really good acting or are they really turned on for each other? It can be both. It can be one or the other. When you're kissing somebody and you're wanting to make it realistic, I think this is the other weird thing. Just like I would in a crying scene or an angry scene, you're naturally pulling from something. And so it's like...

It ends up being parts of yourself. So like I naturally kiss in a certain way or I naturally like to do something, you know, in whatever situation. And so often that's what you go to. So there's an aspect of like yourself in it, which is kind of weird to wrap your head around. So it's kind of like a yes and no thing where it's like, I'm not, I think this is much harder for men. I'm going to be honest.

As a woman, we are like spaghetti up there. We're like, we've got lots of different compartments and we can decompartmentalize weight easier than a man can, I think. And to be fair... Just say men get very turned on no matter what. This doesn't...

You can just be blunt about it. For sure. It's not meant as an insult. Okay, that's the answer. It's not meant as an insult, though. It's just, I think, a difference. That's right. Whereas, like, we have lots of things that we're thinking, and unfortunately, you kind of have two in a sexual sense. No, I'm being really unfair, and I'm making a bad joke. But I think really what I mean— There's a lot of truth to every joke, though. Really, more so what I mean is it's very obvious when a man has—

you know, a reaction versus when a woman does. And that's a little unfair. And actually, this is a fun thing to talk about because what's unfair in a lot of these circumstances comes down to just what the body does naturally. So there are a lot of actors that get really upset when the other actor, being a male,

How do I say this politely? Has an erection. Has an erection. There you go. Okay. We can just call an erection what it is. For sure. It's an erection. And the reason I'm talking about this, because it's kind of important, is that doesn't necessarily mean anything negative. It's a natural reaction the body has. You are simulating sex or some version of it. And that happens. And so for an actor to get mad at another actor for that, I think is a little unfair unless they're being inappropriate.

And in a way, it's also like insulting if they don't. It's this like weird thing where it's like, okay, that's naturally the experience and you're naturally reacting, your body is naturally reacting to what happens in a situation like this. Yeah.

And it's this awkward dance between making things look real and separating yourself emotionally from what you're doing. And I think there's no... It's not necessarily a right or wrong answer all the time. It's a complicated one. Depends on the scene. It depends on... And this is an awkward one too when it comes to consent. So if in your scene there's a...

a party that is not consenting as a character, then it's a whole other dynamic because then the other actor is, is putting, has to like, to go against everything that they want to do. Like if, you know, if we're going to be blunt, if you're raping somebody, that is both hard on, it's hard on both parties. It's turned into a sexual experience that's negative. And it's really, really hard to be the person receiving it. It's really, really hard to be the person doing it because you're putting yourself in a headspace that's,

that nobody ever wants to go to and still having to perform those actions in a really vulnerable way. So I think it really, really depends on the person or on the people, what you're trying to accomplish in the scene, and then what naturally happens to people when they're doing certain actions.

Does that make sense? Sorry. I feel like I got really convoluted there, but... Let's move from erections to the difficulty of becoming a professional actor. Okay. So let's talk about how difficult it is to actually become a working actor. We'll start with some stats. 90% of actors are unemployed at any given time. Only 2% of actors make enough money to support themselves acting. And two-thirds of actors leave acting after the first year.

So what's your advice to the young teenager sitting in Kansas saying, I'm going to pursue my dreams, move to Los Angeles and become a successful actor? And maybe just as important, what's your advice to parents of those kids? Oof, yeah. Again, this is hard for me because it was so long ago that I started. But I think ultimately...

Trying to not be naive to the situation as best as possible. Obviously, there's going to be things that you that are unforeseen. But I think for the most part, if you truly want it, it's going to mean sacrifice of a lot of things. It's going to mean being that later. It's going to mean picking up multiple jobs. It's going to mean roommates. It's going to mean putting yourself in uncomfortable positions. Yeah.

And it still might not happen. So I think it's like if you want to follow that dream, just like it's so difficult to get into like any crazy profession. Like if you want to be a doctor, there are so many things and so many challenges to make that happen. And so it's kind of the nature of following your dream. Everybody's dream, generally speaking, is hard to get to. And this one...

requires a lot of change in your life. Even if you're in LA and wanting to become an actor, this doesn't necessarily mean that you have to be in Kansas for this to apply to you. Like it is an extremely difficult profession. And a lot of it is trial and error. And I wish I could be more specific, but because everybody's circumstance is different, it's essentially like, this is going to be really fucking hard.

no matter what, and it's not going to get any easier. Because even when you get a big break, generally speaking, it doesn't last, and you still have to work extremely hard to continue in your profession. And just because you might get a job easier doesn't mean everything around you is going to get easier. In so many ways, it gets more complicated and more toxic. There's more decision-making that maybe you weren't, you know,

thinking about, like that you didn't think would ever be asked of you or you didn't think you would ever be involved with. Or, you know, it's there's a lot of things thrown at you at every different part of your career as an actor, not just the beginning. So I think it's all a challenge and you will always be fighting for it. And in so many ways, it's whether it's rewarding enough for you.

If being on set and playing a cool character is enough to make everything else worth it, then go for it. If you're in it for a different reason, it's not going to be as fruitful and it will not be as rewarding. If your goal is to be famous, there's nothing wrong with that. But fame and being an actor are totally different things. They often come together, but it's not the same thing.

type of feeling. So that's why I think social media is so amazing. If you want to get famous for something that you're good at, go for it. And it's really cool because most of the time you can do it from home. So if fame is what you're after and you have, you know, like an obscure passion, go for it. If you want to be an actor, it's going to be very, very difficult. And, and,

And you're going to have to do all sorts of things that you never thought that you would have to do. And your advice to parents? My advice to parents is for kids that want to be in the industry. Let's take the kid who is going to go to college, otherwise going to go to college, who is going to sacrifice going to college or graduating from a great school like Michigan, for example. Yeah. And then just say, okay, I'm... Just kidding. I'm going to split. Okay. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Again, not an easy thing. You know, when a kid turns 18 and is going to decide between college and acting, you technically can't stop them, right? And it's a really hard place to be as a parent. If we're talking about the 18-year-old and over, the young adult phase, you know, I think it's definitely about emotional support. Because if you tell your kid no,

they've already made their decision. They're probably going to do it or not do it. And it's a very emotionally charged subject. When somebody tells you, "No, you shouldn't follow your passion," it's crushing regardless if you decide to do it or not, regardless if you take that as fuel. So when you say no to a kid's passion,

You're essentially knocking their confidence and inserting maybe one of or the first sense of doubt in themselves. So maybe you don't think your kid's going to make it, but that doesn't necessarily mean you should stop them from trying. You know, if that is something that is super positive for you or for them that they think brings them joy and that they want to pursue, then

it's worth giving them confidence. It's worth them trying. It might not be your dream for them, but if that's their dream and you're risking their mental health and risking them following something that they love, I say you go with supporting their mental health, even if you think that it's not the best for them. Because ultimately, I understand there are certain circumstances that are not this way, like if it's a scholarship or everything is different, but

You can always go back to college, which is really cool. You can always take a couple years off and try and pursue something and come back to it. You can always pursue education in different ways.

And so I think the pressure of that really great school because you did it or that it's an amazing accomplishment or if you feel it's something that every kid should do, those are projections of your wants. And I think that's a really hard thing as a parent. And I know I'm talking about it on behalf of my three and a half year old. But just seeing other friends who have older kids go through situations like this, which I have, it's ultimately taking a step back and deciding between

your selfish nature, even if it's a good one that's trying to protect your kid versus what they want. And ultimately, 18 to 25 is all learning anyway, no matter if you're successful at it or not, what you want to do or not. It's a learning period. And everybody has gone through that learning period. And I think it's easy to forget.

Even though I had great success in my passion between 18 and 25, I had so much to learn. And it's like teething. You're figuring out what works for you and what doesn't. And those teeth are coming in to kind of help you tear apart what you want and what you don't want. And so I just, I encourage parents that have kids in that age range to let them do it. Now, as a minor, if your kids are minors, it's harder because...

You have work. They have school. They have mandatory things that they need to be present for. If you've got more than one kid, it's even more difficult. I've seen a lot of families struggle and crumble because one of their kids wants to act and the other ones don't. And it's a moving thing or it's a mom staying at home thing or parents staying at home thing. And logistically, it's really complicated. So again, it's not easy. But if your kid wants to do it, I think there are...

easier avenues to try and have that blossom versus having to move to LA or, you know, separating your family for whatever that may look like for you. I think it's more about, you know, taking classes. And I don't mean like cheesy ones or really expensive ones. I just mean like

looking at YouTube and seeing all these really cool free classes that people give that are acting coaches. You know, it's about watching lots of movies and television and finding what you like and what you don't like. It's about looking at yourself in the mirror and seeing some lines and recording yourself. And it's really hard to judge yourself. And we all do an okay job at it or a negative job at it. But like picking up those pieces and really trying to work on your craft as an actor is

That's really hard to do when you're not working, but it's an important thing to do that we all need to do. So it's like observing, trying it out, you know, in your room when no one's looking, finding what you like and what you don't like. I feel like I'm going in circles here a little bit, but I guess more so as a parent, it's harder as a minor. Like, I think it's amazing that my parents did what they did, but a lot of people can't. And my dad always had two or three jobs to make it happen, but I was one kid.

And we had a very unique circumstance. So for a normal parent dealing with a kid that wants to act, it's a giant commitment. But I'm going to go back to mental health again. It's a commitment, but it's also really important to try and foster your kids' dreams and tell them that if they want to go for it, they should go for it.

You know, we always say to our little kids, like, if you want to be an astronaut, you can be an astronaut. You want to be president, you can be president. And it's sad that that sentiment starts to go away as they get older. Like, we want to encourage them when they're really little, but as soon as it gets a little bit more viable or tricky, that kind of narrative goes away. And I think that's where the faults start to occur.

And where our selfish nature, even if it's coming from a good place, starts to seep in where we create our own little box for them. And it's just it's it's there's no right or wrong answer because every family is different. Every family will have different hurdles. But I mean, I guess it just comes down to trying to be a good parent.

trying to do everything that you can, just like you would for a different type of occupation. You're listening to part one of my awesome interview with Sasha Peterson. She's an amazing award-winning actress, singer, songwriter, entrepreneur, and author. We talked about her career starting when she was three years old to get an agent when she was four and a half, moving with her parents to Los Angeles when she was six, giving up their careers to manage her. We talked about what it was like to land business

Pretty Little Liars, one of the biggest TV shows of all time when she was 12 years old. It was an incredible episode, one of my favorite of all time. Be sure to tune in next week for part two of my awesome interview with Sasha.