cover of episode How to find — and keep — product-market fit | Bob Moore (Co-founder and CEO at Crossbeam, ex-RJMetrics and Stitch Data)

How to find — and keep — product-market fit | Bob Moore (Co-founder and CEO at Crossbeam, ex-RJMetrics and Stitch Data)

2024/9/19
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Bob Moore: 在谈到产品市场匹配时,许多创始人认为市场是静止的,而产品是可移动的。他们不断尝试,直到产品击中市场这个目标。然而,RJ Metrics的经验告诉我们,市场目标(电话线杆)是不断移动的。 作者介绍了自己三次创办SaaS公司的经历,包括RJ Metrics和Stitch Data。RJ Metrics起初并非处于产品市场匹配状态,经过数年努力才找到匹配点,但后来由于市场变化(例如Amazon Redshift的出现)再次失去匹配。 在寻找Crossbeam的创意时,作者与多位创始人沟通,而非直接与目标用户沟通,因为创始人更能理解市场变化和长期可持续性。作者在选择创业方向时,优先考虑了自身兴趣和经验,并最终选择了Crossbeam。 Crossbeam的商业模式具有病毒式传播特性,用户之间相互邀请,促进了平台的快速发展。 RJ Metrics起初并非处于产品市场匹配状态,经过数年努力才找到匹配点,但后来由于市场变化(例如Amazon Redshift的出现)再次失去匹配。 作者强调了“知识上的诚实”的重要性,即创始人需要区分噪音和信号,并及时调整方向。在RJ Metrics的案例中,作者承认他们曾忽视了市场变化的信号,并对客户的反馈做出错误的解读。 作者在Crossbeam的早期阶段,采取了先开发原型,再与目标用户沟通的策略。通过与创始人沟通,作者验证了Crossbeam创意的可行性,并迅速进行了融资。 Crossbeam早期版本的核心功能是提供一个协作的电子表格界面,用于数据匹配。通过“联合协作会议”的销售策略,促进了产品病毒式传播。 Crossbeam早期阶段免费提供服务,以促进网络效应的产生。 Crossbeam与Reveal的合并是基于客户需求和市场现状做出的战略决策。合并后,作者对Reveal团队的工作效率和专业性印象深刻。 作者的合伙人Jake Stein对其创业历程影响深远,教会了他如何同时持有两种相互矛盾的观点。 Brett Berson: 引导Bob Moore讲述其创业经历,并针对其创业过程中遇到的问题和挑战进行提问和探讨。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

What is Crossbeam, and what problem does it solve?

Crossbeam is a data-driven partner ecosystem platform often described as 'LinkedIn for data.' It helps companies find overlapping opportunities with their partners by enabling them to share and analyze data collaboratively. The platform replaces the manual process of account mapping, which traditionally involves emailing spreadsheets back and forth, with a secure, automated solution.

How did Bob Moore validate the idea for Crossbeam?

Bob Moore validated the idea for Crossbeam by pitching it to 20-30 founders rather than traditional end users or buyers. He sought their gut reactions and asked if they would start the company themselves. This approach allowed him to expand the scope of the idea and gauge long-term conviction rather than just immediate product-market fit.

Why did Bob Moore choose to talk to founders instead of end users when validating Crossbeam?

Bob Moore chose to talk to founders because he trusted their ability to understand market evolution and the durability of a business idea. Founders have empathy for multiple personas and can provide insights into long-term sustainability, which is crucial at the early stages of a startup.

What lessons did Bob Moore learn from RJMetrics about product-market fit?

Bob Moore learned that product-market fit is not static; markets can move, and products can fall out of fit. RJMetrics initially struggled but eventually found fit when the market caught up to their analytics platform. However, they lost fit again when the market shifted toward cloud-based data warehouses like Amazon Redshift, making their bundled product less relevant.

What was the revenue trajectory of RJMetrics during its peak and decline?

RJMetrics grew from less than $100K in its first year to $1M in ARR over three years. During its peak, it grew from $1M to $5M in ARR, but growth slowed to 10% as the market shifted toward the modern data stack, leading to churn and flatlining revenue.

How did RJMetrics pivot after losing product-market fit?

RJMetrics pivoted by isolating its data pipeline technology and creating a new product called RJMetrics Pipeline, which allowed data to be sent to any destination, not just their own servers. This pivot led to the creation of Stitch Data, which was later acquired by Talend.

What is the 'joint jam' sales tactic used by Crossbeam?

The 'joint jam' is a sales tactic where Crossbeam conducts demos with two companies simultaneously. This approach ensures that both companies see the value of the platform immediately by connecting their data live during the demo, bypassing the single-player mode issue and driving virality.

Why did Crossbeam merge with its competitor Reveal?

Crossbeam merged with Reveal because customers were frustrated by having to use two separate platforms to connect with their partners. The merger unified the network graph, eliminating the need for customers to choose between the two and allowing both companies to focus on competing with larger players in the market.

What surprised Bob Moore after the Crossbeam-Reveal merger?

Bob Moore was surprised by the strong work ethic and talent of the Reveal team, particularly given stereotypes about French work culture. He found the Paris startup scene vibrant and plans to invest further in growing Crossbeam's Paris office.

What is the importance of intellectual honesty in building a startup?

Intellectual honesty is crucial for recognizing when market dynamics are changing and when a product is falling out of fit. Bob Moore emphasizes the need to differentiate between noise and signal, especially when metrics like churn or outbound sales start to decline, as these can indicate deeper market shifts.

Shownotes Transcript

Bob Moore is the co-founder and CEO at Crossbeam, a “LinkedIn for data” platform that helps companies find overlapping opportunities with their partners. Crossbeam has raised US$117M to date and recently acquired Reveal in 2024. Bob previously cofounded RJMetrics (now part of Adobe Commerce Cloud) and Stitch Data (acquired by Talend). He is also the author of Ecosystem-Led Growth.

In today’s episode, we discuss:

  • The unique way he evaluated and validated startup ideas

  • Lessons learned from falling in and out of product-market fit

  • How to recognize and act on market shifts that impact your business

  • Specific tactics for distribution and building with conviction vs. consensus

  • Creating scalable and durable startups

  • Unlocking network effects in software

  • Getting mergers right

Referenced:

Where to find Bob Moore:

Where to find Brett Berson:

Where to find First Round Capital:

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(02:44) Tactics for finding founder-market fit

(06:17) Speaking to founders about startup ideas

(11:16) Why founders loved Crossbeam

(19:34) How RJMetrics found market fit then lost it

(29:46) Lessons from RJMetrics’ exit

(38:06) The importance of intellectual honesty

(39:33) Building with conviction versus consensus

(42:41) Lessons from a three-time founder

(50:26) Building and distributing Crossbeam

(57:58) The “joint jam” sales tactic

(60:35) Unlocking network effects in a software business

(63:27) Why Crossbeam merged with its competitor

(72:51) Who had an outsized impact on Bob