How humility and bravery can help your career
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I'm Chris Duffy, and this is How to Be a Better Human. Now, for most people, a part of being human is having to work. It is a big part of who we are and what we do. And since the guests that we've had on this show are at the top of their fields in their respective careers, it's no surprise that they have had great insights on how we can make the most out of the time we spend making our money. So on today's show, we are going to go deep into career advice.

This is something that I personally love to talk about, and I love to hear how other people think about this. And to start us off, here's a clip from my conversation with author David Berkus about the huge role that people other than us play in our careers. The problem with the people that we're closest to is that we often share the same information, right? So if you're just talking to your closest contacts, your deep, close friends, coworkers you've been working with for a really long time, and then maybe you all were unexpectedly laid off,

You might not be in a situation that's really going to grow your thinking. And this is where a lot of people who know networks are important then jump to, well, let's meet lots of new people. Let's meet perfect strangers. Well, perfect strangers do have more information, but

I mean, for one thing, it's super awkward to do that. Let's just admit. Yeah. Right. And then for the other thing, it's difficult to know who you could actually be beneficial for, who could be helpful to you. You're just sort of meeting everybody and hoping that serendipity has a role. Well, you're weak and dormant ties, people, you know, already, but haven't kept up with. They're somewhere else in the world. They're somewhere else in the far reaches of your network. They're just as likely as strangers to have that new information and

And the rapport building, the awkwardness, it's still there a little bit, but not as much as having to go to sort of a I used to call these networking hours. But now they're sort of Zoom meetup hours that are 10 times more awkward than the actual cocktail party that we all dreaded going to used to be.

Right. So a much more successful strategy, both for what's inside your comfort zone and for what will provide you that new information is that reaching back out to former colleagues, people, anyone you haven't talked to in, let's say, a year. Odds are they're deeply engrossed in something else that at the very least will let you know what else is going on in the world or the world of work and is useful to keep tabs on. And in the best case scenario, might be aware of opportunities that you had never even heard of. OK, so can I can I dive into the logistics of this? Because it's so fascinating and I feel like

I get it. And I just want to know more about how you actually do it. So first of all, I consider myself to be like an extreme extrovert. I really love meeting people and talking to people. And yet even for me, the times when in my life I have like broken out into a cold sweat, probably five or six of the top 10 are networking events where I'm like walk into a room and I put on a name tag and I'm supposed to meet people. That is for me. I'm like,

I start immediately kind of hyperventilating. And I'm like someone who likes meeting people. So I can only imagine how hard that is for someone who is already an introvert. So this idea of people who I already kind of know that that is very appealing to me. But but who are

Who are those people? And like, I kind of think about it as like my close ties are the people that I'm always thinking about or often they come close to mind. So how do you even get to think about who is your weaker dormant? Like, how do you come up with them? Do you like search your Gmail or something like that?

You can. You could scroll all the way down in the messages app on your phone because the most frequent interactions always float to the top. Your Facebook and your LinkedIn connections are sometimes sorted that way. So you can run through that. Old emails, like you said, search through your Gmail is a great one. We're really just looking to spark those names. Actually, my default exercise for people to get started is actually what I already suggested, which is open up the messaging app on your phone and scroll all the way down. And my guess is that someone you haven't talked to in

at least six months right so now i've got him in my mind as i go throughout the next couple of days odds are i'll think of a reason i'll think of something i'll read an article and go oh you know what he'd be really interested in this because he works in x space or something like that if you can think of nothing after a day or two then you can send them this text i'm giving you permission if you're listening to this do this because just like the the trick here it works you can just text them and say i was thinking about you today and i hope you're well

And that's it, right? No one has ever been on the receiving end of an email or a text message that sends them well wishes and been like, oh, that guy's a jerk, right? No one's ever thought that. They might think that you're trying to recruit them into their network marketing company or something like that. Yeah, for sure. Possible you're a serial killer, but other than that, it's going to be nice well wishes.

Right, exactly. And the interesting thing is if you just leave it there or if you add something like no reply needed, I just wanted to let you know I was thinking about you, you'll get more of a reply because they get that there's no agenda there because now is the time to be checking in on everyone. We're all globally going through the same situation.

And so just saying, you know, I was thinking about you today and all this madness we haven't talked in so long. I just wanted to check in, let you know that I'm thinking about you. I wish you well. Love to reconnect sometime if you've got time, but if not, just want to let you know I'm thinking about you. And that's all you have to say. And one of two things is going to happen, right? They're either going to read it and they're going to think, oh, you know, that's nice. Dave sent me a well wish and do nothing with it. But at least I've floated back to the front of their mind. And now I've made it less awkward the next time they want to reach out to me or vice versa.

or they're going to reply back and you're going to start catching up. And then in the process of catching up, you can let them know about your current situations and those sort of things. But really, the goal for me is to train a lot of people to just do what I just described on a regular basis with people so that if you found yourself looking for work suddenly,

you wouldn't be reaching back out to those people for the first time in three years. It'd be, oh, I haven't talked to Philip in three months. And so it's totally appropriate to send them that email cold, no need to build rapport, reconnection, et cetera. So that's my like number one default trick. Like I said, there's a number of ways you can find those people, but

I bet the messages app on your phone is going to be a pretty good one. So if we're doing this on a regular basis, we're dumbing that down. If we're sending along reasons we thought of them, like I said, the article example, I read this and I thought it might be interested in it. I pass it along. Those signal that we don't have that agenda. That's also the rationale behind the no reply needed trick. It

It says, I don't have an agenda. You don't have to reply. I just I wanted to send you this just so you know that I care about you and I was thinking about you today. And that's it. And if it turns into a bigger conversation, you know, amazing. And the last thing I'll say on this, because I feel like I'm just beating a dead prescription here at this point, is that if you think about it from the flip side, there are people in your network, there are people in your past career, your past life who also need the benefit of

of your information and your ideas and your potential answer to the question, who would be good for that? Right. They need that help as well. They're probably sweating all of this awkwardness too. So by doing this, by developing that system of reaching back out to people, you're also making it easier for them to reach out to you. If two months later, they find themselves unemployed and looking for work or have some other need. This is a two-way street. You're just taking the effort to build it, but you're building it

for the sense of giving just as much as you might be building it for receiving. That was David Berkus. And now it's not that surprising that David has some incredible advice for us, right? This is a person who spends his days researching business in the workplace. But when we come back from this break, we're going to have more tips from some very surprising places. Stay tuned.

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Find World Gone Wrong in all the regular places you find podcasts. I love you so much. I mean, you could like up the energy a little bit. You could up the energy. I actually don't take notes. That was good. I'm just kidding. You sounded great. So did you. And we are back. OK, today's episode is all about career advice. And our next clip comes from Franklin Leonard.

Now, you may not be a movie producer or high powered Hollywood executive like Franklin, although if you are, thanks for listening and please call me. But I think that regardless of what you do, regardless of what field you're in, everyone can take something away from Franklin's advice. This is a guy who changed the way that Hollywood makes movies, and that is not something that many people can say. So here's a part from our conversation about what he has learned along the way in his career.

And so the King's Speech was always very special to me. And I remember reading that script before it was on the blacklist and thinking that if it could get made, it would win Best Picture. And I also love the story of the writer, David Seidler, who was in his mid-70s when that movie got made.

And then there he is on the Academy Awards stage with an Oscar. I think he made a joke about his mother saying that he was a late bloomer. But it's a reminder that there's always time to do something that may surprise you. As somebody who's pushing into his 40s right now, it's something I try to hold dear. I would have a caution and a recommendation for people who find themselves in that situation. If there is something that you care about,

seek out the opportunity to pursue it with your whole heart and seek it out aggressively and do not be afraid to pursue it because as somebody who's on the other side of that, it's worth it. Now, the caveat that comes with that is, is make sure that you are ready to make the leap when you make the leap and do everything you can to prepare to make that leap prior to making the leap. I was really lucky because I had been so conservative about making the jump because I had, you

frankly been scared of doing so, I had built myself a very effective parachute. What you don't want to do is in your enthusiasm for an idea, run off the cliff without packing a parachute. So do both and then take the leap. The parachute doesn't even have to be perfect. Just make sure you have one in your bag or that you thought about a good reason why you don't need a parachute. But go through that thought process and then do it because you won't

I can't promise you you won't regret it, but you will be almost inevitably you will be proud that you took the jump, even if that includes some regrets. Yeah. For me, when I worked as a fifth grade teacher and then at a certain point, it kind of seemed like, oh, maybe comedy and entertainment could be a career. And it felt so scary to make that plunge, but it also felt scarier to then

30 years down the road think like, oh, I had that opportunity and didn't pursue it? I think that's ultimately what it was for me is that it was more scary to go back into a corporate job that I knew that I wouldn't like than it was taking this leap that was the complete unknown. Right? Like eventually the sort of seesaw tipped and it was like, well...

this seems like the less terrifying option. So I guess this is what I'm going to do. But by the way, you can force that tipping of the scales by thinking deeply about what you imagine your life like 30 years from now if you never take that risk.

Yeah. And I think that often we frame it as the metaphor is jumping off the cliff. But at least for me personally, one thing that I was kind of shocked to discover is that when I left teaching and started doing comedy, it felt so much less like I had jumped off a cliff and more like I'd turned a corner. And I was like, oh, I could...

two years from now, go and apply for teaching jobs again. I didn't burn any bridges in the future of teaching. I just chose to do something different and try and see. It's true. I think a better analogy might be like sort of get on the roller coaster. For me, that feels very right. Because it's like, look, there are going to be highs and there are going to be lows and they will often come in rapid succession. And once you are strapped in,

it's gonna be really difficult to get off. But eventually, you're going to be able to get off that ride and go ride another ride if you don't like it, or you can go on that ride again, or you can go on a bigger, more terrifying ride after that one. But do it because, look, it's a cliche, but we get one life and we only can recognize the highs because we experienced the lows. And if we have both, that's the beginning of something interesting. Okay, we're gonna be right back with more career advice after this quick ad.

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And we are back. So while we're talking about career advice, I think it's really important to note that the best career advice isn't all about how you personally can get ahead and achieve as much as possible. It's also about how you can treat the people around you with kindness and respect. Let's not forget about that, right? In fact, whenever people ask me personally for advice on comedy or podcasting,

One of the biggest things that I tell them is that you don't succeed alone. That's a mistake that I feel like a lot of people make. And they have this conception in their head that they should be competitive rather than collaborative. When, in my experience, at least, what you want to do is you want to hone your own skills and you want to become really talented and to constantly be improving. But you also really you want to treat people well and you want to be the kind of person who people know will treat them well, because if you are both talented and

And you are kind that, well, that's the dream person to work with. That's who everyone wants to be around. And so while business professor Christine Porath isn't hitting up comedy open mics around the city, although, you know, that would be incredible. But to my knowledge, she's not. She has found a very similar message in her research and her work with organizations. You got to treat people well. Here's Christine.

Yeah, well, I think like the more stressful or the more important or the, you know, potentially if you're going to include negative information, I think it demands a richer form of communication. Like you want the nonverbals, you want the tone. What can we do to kind of show up and make sure that people understand? And I think, you know, having a go-to question I've heard is really helpful, like for leaders. So it could be, you know, how can I best support you?

and a one-on-one. And so like quick check-ins, like you said, that you do with your wife are awesome. Like leaders, they don't have to take a lot of time, a couple minutes a piece. Are you okay? If not, what can I do to better support you? Because these are really challenging times. So I think paying attention to how people really are is key. And then

again, especially as a leader, but even as a teammate or a friend, you know, being vulnerable and, and again, revealing like, this hasn't been easy, you know, it's taken a toll. And in meetings, what I've seen be helpful is, you know, maybe even starting off with like, what's one practice or routine that's been helpful. And so you're almost like, you know, you're kind of admitting that there are things that are, you're working on and some helpful best practices. Yeah.

Okay, that is the end of this episode. I hope that you got some career advice you can take with you and that you become wildly successful and also fulfilled. And also you treat people with kindness and respect along the way. That's my hope for you. I hope it happens. I also hope that you keep listening to this podcast. And just so you know, we will be back to our regular programming next Monday with one person and one interview on the show.

I'm your host, Chris Duffy, and this has been How to Be a Better Human. On the Ted side, this show is brought to you by the extremely employable Abimanyu Das, the professional to the core Daniela Balarezo, leadership incarnate Frederica Elizabeth Yosefov, the experienced Ann Powers, and the highly qualified Kara Newman.

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