Advice Line with Chris Ruder of Spikeball
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Hello, and welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab. And guy is this is the place where we helped try to solve your business chAllenges. Each week i'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guests on the show, who will help me try to help you.

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And we will put all this info in the podcast description. All right, let's get to IT. Joining this week is Chris ruder, the founder and C.

E. O of ike ball. Chris, welcome back to the show.

Like so much cheaper .

here because you were first on how I built this back in twenty twenty three, and you told us all about how you turn Spike ball into a brand and how you help turn the sport of around net into a professional sport. By the way, if you haven't heard that episode, uh, with Chris Spike ball, we will put a link in the show description and I guess we should explain the people who haven't heard the episode that's spite is basically and seen IT. If you're at the beach or at the lake or something park, it's basically four people standing around what is a little trampin and spiking A A ball into that trap. And it's like a sort of how do you describes like it's like a volleyball meets um .

the one line I like to use as a valley ball and four square had a baby .

oh yeah especially .

identical the two on two valley ball rather than hitting a ball over the that you're spiking a ball off a net that looks a lot like a chaplin.

Chris, you painstakingly built this brand into a mainstream game, starting with like P. E. Teachers, ultimate frisbee players, Christian youth groups.

You aren't connected to any of these groups. You just found that that's where the the product was resonating. How did that happen? I mean, in when that happened, how did you lean in to those into those groups?

Yeah absolutely. When the first few years of the business you could only buy Spike ball and Spike ball dot com. Um we had the benefit of I was able to communicate literally with a hundred percent of our customers, email them and ask questions and nearly every single customer I replied saying, hey, thanks for by in Spike ball.

I'm going to mail IT tonight tomorrow. We should show in a few days by the way, if you don't make me asking how did you hear about IT and that's where I heard a lot of people said, oh, i'm A P. E.

Teacher, and i'm always looking for new games. And new games are ways to engage kids that Normally don't engage. Or i'd hear from people say, oh, I was at an ultimate tournament, and I saw some people playing there or i'm a camp director at a Christian camp or something along those lines. But I asked the question enough times over the years where I was able to identify these themes in these buckets.

I I also thought that, you know, when I launched as I get volleyball players are going to love this game and I was just what I thought they want up having IT um but I was these groups that I never would have thought of in a million years that loved that and once I did identify those, then I started you getting to know them some of them might say, hey, would you mind? Can we get on a call like i've never heard of this thing called Young life like what is IT and can we can I learn from you? And oh, by the way, you have any other friends in that community that I can maybe send a free set to to to so that free product was really critical in the early days of spreading the world.

yeah. And Young life is a massive Christian youth group, which, again, you are involved to decide came just kind came to you. I know that that since we've talked and and actually around the time we talked, um you are introducing new products like paddles, which I think are interchangeable with with pico paddles, you can use to play spackle, but you can use to play pico.

They are designed for more casual play. Yeah, they're not like they are hard to prick all player. You're going to get a real paddle, of course. But yeah, they're very versatile. And I just get one of our turn ament this last weekend and watch some of our top players ever just kind of play off on the side with paddles and laughing and diving. And we are trying to find new fun ways to use our existing stuff.

Yeah, Chris, uh, I think it's probably time that we take in our first call. You think it's do IT to do IT okay. Um hello, color please. H introduced yourself. Tell us your name where you're calling from and just a tiny bit about your business.

Hi gerson and guy. My name's jimmie Davison. I'm calling in from riverside in southern california. I'm the founder of freedom in motion, where a chain of Parker games, where we teach kids, teens and adults the sport of Parker here in our indoor obstacle costumes.

what park core, like people dancing up walls and jumping and swinging. And this is like gynt s mets, like urban landscape.

It's like spiderman without the webs. It's like skate boarding without the skateboard. We actually try to distance ourself from domestics pretty heavily. So we're not drama a ccs at all. But you know, we take the outdoor environment, the walls, the rAilings, the parking curbs, and our mission is to transform all that into a playground.

So cool, so you end in your bed in riverside and how many gyms you have.

We have three games currently want to mere a california, riverside, california and lamin da, which is one of the blue zones, a cool mix, right? And we intend on opening many more games. So hopefully I actually live in oakland despite my gym being down there, california. And I hope to have a gym.

a person too, right? So Jimmy, tell me how you how this started. I mean, is a great idea.

I think of, like when my kids are little way to take him like and like rock climbing walls, which are awesome. But i'd never heard of a park core. Gam, how did? How did you get this idea?

So in high school, when i've had first discovered park court, this is right around when youtube kind of first came out. So found parking war through that. In high school we had a Parker AR club, and IT became the largest club on campus at one hundred and fifty kids. So imagine like a wave of one hundred and fifty kids coming to climb all over your stuff. IT was a lot of fun.

You would just go to like a Parker. You go to anywhere, an outdoor space.

yeah. Like the urban architecture in different areas provides different opportunities for movement and play. And you can work on baLance on those hand rails.

You can work on climbing over walls on these walls ever here. And so here's going to how we got to me opening a gym. I got to the point where I was teaching kids, like parents were paying me at coaches or gets when I won.

And I would take them to just some parks outside. And you probably can imagine that sometimes the local city government didn't like us climbing all over their city hall architects here in the front. So I had a meeting with the mayor the time.

This is when I was nineteen and thirty one now, and I had this adorable presentation on, like, here's park core. You know, I like printed stuff out of my mm computer and was like, let's have a park core park just like a escape park and the mayor at the time I was like, I don't know, park core is never heard of that. Sounds like a liability nightmare.

A your best of opening up in the private sector. So after I went in google, what does private sector mean? I think IT out we have to open up our own gm.

And you know, then, and i'm nineteen, so like then I was a whole hurdle of like business landlords, like taking me seriously in one thousand year old a day and also not knowing that Parker ore was how do we find the money for that? Like there was a whole chAllenge. But in twenty fourteen, by the time I was twenty one, we were able to open our first gym in marina.

Wow, how did you finance that?

Yeah, uh, a few ways. So I had been coaching a lot of kids, doing a lot of private lessons, things. So I had a few thousand dollars.

I had a job on the side. We had a couple people give us some money. We had a uh, original investor give us some money.

Our business had one iteration and then IT failed. And then we reopened. You know. So like there's a little bit of of gay and how the financing worked out there. Um but yeah so a few sources and we are very scrappy with IT.

wow. So then you are you open the gym and describe for me like what IT looks actually no, i'm on your website now so I can see a freedom motion. I'll see like all kinds are like bars hang off and and padded things to jump on to an off of and a rampson yeah .

it's like a 3d obstacle course。 We have walls. We have different platforms um and it's not like a ninja warrior where nda warrior has like bunny I chords and and weird rotating things. Part core is actually is a martial and it's a martial art of movement, just not fighting. So our indoor gyms simulate the outside architecture of like walls and rails and things to jump and land on. Um and so our indoor Parker course just has all sorts of shapes and heights and things for us, our coaches, to train our students, the whole variety of of movements that come with parkyn.

And I so cool um and I before I forget what you question.

absolutely. So our Parker games thrive on a super passionate team. We need these passionate people to inspire a passion for a movement and for play within our students.

We have three gyms. now. I personally plan on growing this to a hundred million dollar company with a lot of gyms. So my question is, how can I invest in my most passionate employees to grow their skills? And how do I scale the recruitment of passionate and scale people as we continue to open more p cordium locations?

I've got some thoughts on turn over the Chris of Spike. Paul, Chris, that questions for Jimmy.

Yeah, number one, congress, Jimmy, this is such a core concept. The fact that you don't have one, you've got three locations like that's incredible. So you're starting to scale.

You're finding what's working, what's not I love that you didn't give up after the first one, didn't quite work. Um you've got that grit which is absolutely required um and most importantly, you're getting kids moving and being social and together. That's the Spike ball that something we're trying to do as well. But I have prayed anybody that is doing that. So that's that's circle um on the topic of how to engage employees, is that safe to assume a decent amount of your early employees were already in the park or or kind of new a decent amount about this before you showed up?

Yeah yeah. And you're totally write to clarify that I open the gym with a handful of my best friends, honestly. And so it's been a decade since we open.

So many of those friends have like trick or law, a lot of those friends, we none of us know what we are doing, right? So we all had like giant expectations of that. We would be million's in the six months or less. And when that didn't come to fruition, you know like a lot of them just aren't around anymore. So it's like as we grow and we get multiple locations, I need managers who you get the passion that we want to transform kids lives, that they see the world's of playground, but also they have the technical chops to like manage multi locations, run hr in and train like integrity and a culture of high performance into the coaches below them, like it's on that higher and that IT IT can be tRicky like finding that skill .

passion baLance to me. Do you um your C E O of this right to the business? And so and you've got three locations. I imagine that probably significant number of your trainers are college aged is unfair to say.

yeah twenty year .

old yeah and so right now there's mean decent turn. Maybe they might work for you for a year or two almost.

It's like hf and half some of them, yes, they come in work for a while and leave. And then the most passionate one, stick around for four, five, ten years.

And the question is how do you invest in those those folks to really help them help you. There's a book, I mean and some people might might kind of you know, required, I want to say, but it's it's a the the most successful uh quick service restaurant in the world in terms of the yellow es pressure food um is k fully. They beat everybody, shake, shaking.

And now mcDonald's, even though they done as many locations, typical chick for leaders, about eight million dollars. Revenue is massive. And the founder chew at Cathy I O A book many years ago, this is called eat more chicken, right? What was interesting about their approach? Forget about everything else you might think about chick fully.

They have a system that basically developed talent from within. So if you go and work, there is a check out clerk and you say, hey, I, anna, manage the store, they will help you get there. Or you said, I want to own one of these one day.

They have a very, very specific program that develops talent from within and grows people from within. Inner burger is a similar thing. It's worth looking at even though you're doing a different kind of business because you're so Young, right still as A C E O, and you're so trying to figure out the model here.

But basically, you need to create a system that identifies those people and then starts to give them incentives to stay. So um equity in the business um some kind of ownership as as you grow incentives um to help you grow. So if you hit five uh locations or ten locations, they get another point.

Uh you know whatever might be that create value for them over time, you know and and I think that for you, you anna really read widely about what other people have done and how they've done IT to give you a framework is ultimately you're gonna to go to lawyers, other people to help you actually, you know qualify this. But it's but the principles around and not that complicated. It's identify great people, give them a clear path to succeeded IT to grow and incentify them.

So as they help grow, they benefit as well. okay. And I think .

you're spot on, get like essentially an internal leadership university he'd baked into you are yes, back into the park or jesus yeah I think that's awesome. I think the world of park core could really benefit from having like A A baked and kind of professional in debater.

Jimmy, as as you think about your march to one hundred million, I love that you've got that goal. Is IT a franchise model you're thinking, is that corporate or how do you think about these future locations?

Yeah so I am right before kind of really needing to pick that that path, right? Like I see starbucks as the corporate locations are, as I see know chick fully, you know let's in owner own a single location like you just said, guy, um and and there's a few different ways to splice IT up, I don't know yet. Um ideally we do IT all incorporate because it's it's working with kids. So I want to really make that is safe and effective and has that culture the culture is so vital because if a parent walks into the gym and the culture is even just a little off IT doesn't work at all. So I I guess my society there is if we have franchises, um I don't have like a total control over that yeah .

chicky lys made at work, right? There's a million franchisees that have done that. I understand the sensitivity around being with kids. So if I in your shoes, I would study as many businesses that have physical locations, multi location and work with kids, whether that's a nursery school or jump zones or the inflatable house places or whatever, like copy their playbook. And also love to me that you mentioned the like employee university thing, like I think of mcDonald's is hamburger university.

Um so what is your version of that? I think step one is sounds like you ve already started the documenting everything that's working. If you think of that star employee right now, what is IT that makes SHE or he great? Write that down. That is that persona you wanna try and multiple throughout your three locations and your fourth, fifth, six than the more you can define that playbook, right? Yeah, the more you can document what's working, I think .

the Better off you'll be.

K jme, David, freedom and motion. Gm, good luck men.

Congress are Chris guy, I really appreciate IT and guy. When I hit hundred million, I have a straight on gold back back and have you back.

OK, thanks to me, are going to take a quick break, but will be a right back with another color and another round vice stay with us. S in your the vicolo right here on how I built this lab.

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Well, come back to the device line on how I built this lab. I'm guy s. And I guess today is Chris ruder.

He's the founder of the outdoor sports games bike ball. What do you say, Chris? Should we take .

another .

call we love in hello color? Welcome to the line on high bills as you are on with me. Chris rooter, please introduce yourself, tells your name where you're calling from and just a little bit about your business.

Hi guy. Hi Chris. Thanks for having today. My name is Cindy. I chen smith, i'm calling in from the boston masaccio area. I am the founder of pendent places. We create cheerful and uplifting products for runners, and we are best known for our yell my name bb kit, which allows marathoners to put their name on their shirts. They can encourage spectators to other name on the race course.

I love IT. okay. So Cindy, thank you. Are calling in. So basically, it's a kit that you can add to the bib.

And the baby is like when you run a marathon there, there's rules. You wear the bit that they give you, but you are allowed to attach your name to the bib. Yes.

exactly as long as IT doesn't cover the number that of the official bib, you can put IT on top or on the back of your shirt or on your shorts.

which I guess I imagine is super meaningful when you're like mile eighteen and you're just dying and some is like go Cindy, just a random person because they see your .

name yes best um kind of motivator and the morale booster at the end .

yeah have you been in that situation yourself?

Yeah I actually ran my fifth marathon last year in chicago and I absolutely of the crowds on the major marathon's are electric. And when they fail, your name is is like nothing else.

I'm how did you get how did you get IT to this business? Have you been in a person in sports like what what's which a story?

No yeah I actually picked up running um as an outlet to deal with stress and burnout while working in the bay area in tech and needed something to you know go to get outside and not be in my computer screen and I fell in love with the sport and the community and so much so that I wanted to create a business out of IT to uplift and support other runners.

Very working in tech.

I worked at google for a couple years and then start up sound in fin tech since then.

And so you completely left that behind and said, you know what, i'm going to start this this running gear brand that has like positive messages that you can basically attach your, where, whatever .

exactly. I had my son two years ago, and that's when you know, I had the choice of, know, starting my own business, that going back to, you know, just a corporate job, but know, I was, of you only live once kind of things. So I wanted to take this opportunity to see what I can do with .

this business and what also besides the name, like you can pin your name to your your big, what s what are the things do get sell?

yes. So our kind of next most popular line is two bays, because you runners have these really expensive sneakers now. And so I have introduced a travel sneaker bag that is kind of more fun than traditional, just plastic bag that people put their a sneakers in for travel.

Got IT. okay. And Cindy, what's your question for us today? yeah.

So you know my initial product to yell, my named by kit is very, very niche, is even in the running community. You know there's um it's only for like the major marathon. So i'm looking to expand into other products like these shoe bags and you know other kind of race day travel kids.

And so you I want to make them just like not playing and boring, like running here is currently. And so what advice would you have for me to market? Product is like fun and uplifting. And the designs are they are .

kind of main differential, right? cool. Am I bring you in, Chris, you who has created a light up Spike ball kit that enables people to play in the dark? So you know a little bit about accessorising things. Um you have any questions for Cindy before we tackle .

her question. Um number one, I wish this product was around years ago when I ran the chicago marathon because if I were, maybe I would have broken the four hour my goal and I did not we didn't laugh four hours.

Super impressive impression.

Yeah yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you. Well, i'll take IT. Um number one, I love IT. Ah can you share a bit on the um sales mix? So IT, there's the vast majority of yourself the name tag is at the shoe bag or what's the general break out there?

Yeah I ninety five percent is coming from the yell my named bb kit um and I introduced you know other products but the main next category of these shoe bags but is not very big right now it's about five percent got.

And can you give us a sense of how have you have you broken twenty five thousand dollars in sales?

Yeah, we have. And so we were seeing a lot of growth this year, especially we've Brown year over year fifty percent. And then we're, you know, looking to grow a lot more in .

the future and selling entirely direct consumer.

entirely in directive consumer. I've done a little bit of pop up shops, a little bit of wholesale, but mainly on my website, instagram, and and we started doing amazon as well.

And your financing the solve thing yourself.

exactly.

And so personable bly, your budget is pretty tight, right? Because you you don't can't spend tens thousand dollars, maybe even thousand dollars marketing.

yeah. exactly. I want to keep IT lean. Another one overspend. I want to do you know kind of spends wisely as well.

But IT sounds like the shoe bag is really where you see the growth.

yeah. I do see there's PPT potential there and is also a bigger mark opportunity, right? There's not a kind of marathoners out there who are running the major marathon's, but everybody has shoes like even you not running like travel with sneakers and things like that. But um I do you see that there's is an opportunity for demand and also you know for gifting.

Yeah I mean, this is actually a not an uncommon problem I would save. This is in in a focus group of one, namely me, which is every time I pack and travel, like h do I put my shoes this way? Well, I don't want to bottom my shoes, touching my clothes.

So like, how do I pack me? And I know people listening to this right now are picturing this because they're going to the same thing. You're packing your location, you like, I don't want the bottom of my shoes, that sticky gr dir on them to touch my clothing. So I am going to angle in like this but a show bag, a proper shoe bag that would still give me a room in my suitcase that makes a lot of sense.

absolutely. And um the other trend that i'm trying to hop on is that they grow bags are being banned from stores and most people put them in versy bags. But really to be more sustainable and kind of ego friendly like a reasonable like travel shoot back makes a lot of sense.

right? So Chris is somebody who cultivated these niche groups, you know is found out who's buying a church youth groups and you like, well, let's lean into P E. teachers. Let's lean into I mean, right now we're thinking about runner because he is a runner um but I mean, there's gonna be other folks should be targeting yeah I mean.

I would I don't want to say go deep and wide, but I guess as you're still in the early days and expLoring, I think that's probably the road. So one, how many marathon runners are in the U. S.

World, worldwide? I'd say such the U. S. I'm assuming it's massive. I was just in chicago recently, and IT was a few days after the marathon and seeing the amount of people walking around with branded gear.

Yeah, he was even like four or five days after the race and people are still wearing. I was seeing IT everywhere. So just like you go to a concert and you you have no problem spending fifty dollars on A T shirt because it's a special event.

I think like people learn a different frame of mind. Where are these events, especially when it's a massive thing like a marathon. So can you do more outside sales there um or maybe go there and witness with a panda paper like what other product ideas can you get? Um that would be my version of going deep.

Um and then the wide is what other events have BBS? Uh like the name kit. Um I think of mutton by Graces.

tries of things yeah .

so is that the wide version and with the show career, I mean, my god, any place that has create running shoes, whatever, can you make a different version for sport? I think as long as you making something that where you've identified a need, yeah and you're not like, oh, I think this could be cool. I just do IT because I like IT um in my experience, identify needs that other people have or a problem that you think you can solve and run in that .

direction yeah I I I agree. I also think that and you really, really thought of this, but I do think that runners are a tribe, a really passionate tribe. As you know, you're runner yourself, and I feel like to get to that tribe.

You've got ta be in the shops too. You've got ta be able to get to the shops. And many of these shops are independently owned yeah the proprieties in there, they're interested in showcasing things that are gonna be interesting to their customers. And I I would really mean boston, a imaginer amazing running stores there. Have you gone to tell me them?

Yes, i've reached out to probably uh, half of the running stores in the united states and you know and there's been some good reception on some of my smaller products. But yeah, I guess the question would be is like you know any kind of tips in getting into these stores that may not initially show interest?

We weren't in any stores for our first five years, one hundred percent Spike ball dot com for us. We were so focused on building the brand, building the community and building sales at Spike ball 点 com。 Eventually, all the stores called us when dick porting goods reached out and said, we d like to Carry your product.

I thought that was a joke, somebody messing with me. Same thing when walmart did IT, when target did IT and all sorts of these small mmm pop toy shops and sporting goods are so um but I understand that's not Normal. But men did IT work for us because I think if I would have called them in the early days, um they would have said, what is this trap? Nobody knows what that is.

And I think what resulted in them calling us, they saw this sort of cult lake following. They saw this quirky thing that people were into IT IT. Wasn't Chris rooter trying to tell them the store that this was an amazing thing? There was all this outside validation on social media and elsewhere approving that the world is into this. The more of that you can get, the easier will be to get into stores. Yeah.

that makes sense. Sounds like build a brand and they will come.

I want to think there's value in and seeing if you can just meet somebody face to face if if one of these stories, nero ally, we would be willing to be with you just to see you and understand your passion and that you you're legit, you're runner. You're not like some, you know, dilate coming to this. This is your passion, and this is a problem that you are solving for yourself and you believe for other runners. And I think there's a lot of value just trying to go one, start a time in person, at least .

initially. I that idea, I gotta way.

yeah. Thank you, Cindy. The brand is called pen and paces.

Thanks so much calling and congrats. Thank you. All right. We're going to take another quick break, but will be right back with another color stay with us. Guy rose, and you're listening to the vice line right here on how I built this lab.

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Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm guy rose, and today i'm taking calls with Chris rooter, the founder of spiky ball. So Chris, let's bring in our next color is great. Hello, welcome to the vicelike. Please tell us your name where you're calling from and just a little bit about your business.

Hey, guy. Hi Chris. I hope you guys both and well, my name is naja Lewis and i'm calling from rocky beach, new york currently the founder of station surf shop started back in two thousand sixteen um and where traditional service shop into the new york city surfer we out surfboards, wet suits, wax leaches everything you would find in a Normal curve shop if you live in so the northern california or why you would find here um you can take the subway to the beach here so we do rentals that you would expect we do a unique thing called surf board lockers because a lot of people in new york of small apartments or or husband revise I don't want words in the apartment um but what i'm most proud of with the shop is spin just the ability for people who kind of look like me to walk in and and uh and see someone that doesn't look like they would see B A service shop counter so that has been what I most paradise have been able to facility that a little bit with .

this community. And thank you for calling into the show name is a rock away beach surf shop sends awesome community uh, tell me how how long have you been surfing? yes.

So I group surfing him recently from barbato been surfing as I was ten and it's so the different there because in bobo s uh, it's a water lifetime le. So i'm actually very used to be in the ocean and .

swim and diving, surfing. I think of I think .

yeah I think right.

everybody does yeah i'm trying on the only one. So so what your question for us today.

So I started this business and brought some partners to help me this kind of financially get IT going. My background is pretty deep in um the surf skate world award for a lot of brands have been a sales rap on been into a lot of surf doors are panama cos that's what I did for work for a quite a number year. So I understand what that that looks like.

But I financially just I group pretty poor and kind of described to make my head. So when I open the shop, we did pretty well that my partners always seemed to leave. And just because they have other interests that they're involved in and they're not committed to the grind. So my last partner left and I had to buy him my age and get the time, but I put me into a spot where I unfortunately had to close the shop.

I mean, the process now of reopening, we were lucky enough to secure partnership with parag, an sports in new ork city in in unit square, to do a pop up like they like what we're doing, heard the story and they were like, we love to give you a home until you figure that out um but this was a pretty important space for me and for the community and and for all the organism that would be supported. It's gone and IT hit me very hard and I have the drive to kind of get IT going again. But i'm just starting over, you know like financially trying to get the money back up in this time, looking to do IT with no partner.

So how do you deal with loss? Our numbers were good and IT didn't close due to lack of business. Be in good.

It's it's a more just demand of pair. I have to do. I couldn't sustain IT after giving up that much money. How do you deal with that to where you feel motivated?

You know so you had the store yes, the the stations are shop in rock away beach. You closed IT. When did you close IT?

Um in december.

in december, okay. Um and now you're trying to reopen IT and and IT was successful and people loved IT and you had you saw the peril and stuff and I am actually I see you have a instagram page up still um but now you're trying to figure out how to reopen IT. And your question is how do you how do you kind of put your failures? So first, all I I just I really appreciate you call because you know people call into the show with like, hey, how do I scale this and how do I make this and you're like we failed and how do I recover from that and um it's such a critical question because you a lot of people think I built this is about success oh success it's not it's actually about setback s mistakes and failures and I say this over and over again because I think the best entrepreneurs Chris ut is one of them who had many failures um on the path to success without .

those failures you don't you don't learn yeah a lot of big shows and idea you'll see you'll only hear the the positive and of our girl's chart .

was nothing but up to the right the entire .

time yeah yeah so I could do a couple episodes of just the last couple years what we've been going through and holy smokes is IT. It's hard and not everybody is cut out to be an entrepreneur. So I applaud you for given a shot and seemingly you're dust in yourself off and say, and i'm going i'm gonna a try IT again and that's that's incredible night .

all the first thing, they needs a pepto k okay. And then we're gonna get down the breast tax here. I I think about john n fully.

John fully was on our show in two and nineteen, okay, and he found a pelletan. And paton was the hardest company during the pandemic. You couldn't get a pellett at one point.

He was worth almost a billion dollars um and he lost all almost all of IT actually and I recent red article where he while journal where he basically said he look, I know I lost virtually on my money, but he has started a new company around rugs around sort of disrupting that market and I love the energy, the spirit there you know because a lot of people laugh at him oh, h joe, john fully, he doesn't care. He's like, no, no, it's fine. I had a setback.

Peter is amazing, lost at all. But i'm I learned a lot. I going to bounce back and i'm onna build this next thing and he's fully into IT.

I actually think that's really inspiring because a lot of people are rooting against him, but I wouldn't you know, especially given his track record. And IT sounds like you had a really good track record here. I mean, seven years in business, sustainable store. Okay, if you set back, you know there are a variety of reasons. Most, most businesses don't make IT past five years, but the fact that you've got a second chance now, that's really exciting. And so what what I would say is really think about what you learned, really spend time doing self critique in a very constructive way right down the things that you don't want to do again um and really use that seven years or seven years as a gift that you are given there's gift to know what not to do in the second coming of this right the rieber of IT right? Does that make sense?

Yeah yeah I mean IT IT makes complete sense. And the thing with myself, as that I call my philosophy, i'm really, really so if this thing wasn't working, I get IT right. And i'm smart left to understand that there is many factors that affect a brick water retail store, and I addressed those in my business plan and so on. And I really appreciate what you said because IT does feel like i've learned a lot um and I am looking to to dust myself often come back honestly because the community is asking for IT. I mean, there's three other serve shops here and everyone is like, when are you reopening and the emails were coming in in paragon on is but doing relationship vely well with the pop up that we're doing there.

So you know, I feel like the writings on the wall is like he is is just a step back, step back up and keep going but know sometimes just a motivation for that you like the pep tok was helpful and and I definitely will take your advice in literally write down the things that I think maybe I could do do Better going forward um but yeah I just I was just always curious what the mindset is from people who are currently successful having failed um to get back on that horse and really kind of not feel this beaten down um on IT. And then also too like financially to how do you deal with that. You know, because once you fail, like everything combles right, like your business, your personal graves tied into the business, part of me, if you are just a single person they want, there are all these things i'm trying to navigate and it's a little bit harder.

But it's almost it's way that you said have something in the proof. But if someone like I have something in the proof, do everyone who thought, oh, well, I knew this wasn't going to work this way. More people that think IT IT will and will work. So um i'm again trying to advocate that and understand the best way to go about him.

Hey, so love that you have a community rallying around you. Yes, I love you have a partner like parag on our product has spent in paraguay for years and they are fantastic. I so love that store you've never ban.

It's this corky massive sporting good store and manhattan. And what you have is I think what most brands would kill for, you have people asking for the product. Essentially your store, you're down, they're rally around you and this come back is not dislike fabricated thing that a fancy ad campaign brings you back.

It's gonna a be the will of the people yeah so I think I think the big the question going through my mind is how can you leverage this group of people that want you to come back? You know one one area my mind goes to financially. So there A A kick starter or something that you get started? Or is that a private conversation with a few of these folks that .

become shareholders?

Yeah maybe able to buy a chunk of the company and you you're asking about finances. Is there a CFO that uh, works for some other company but loves your store that would be your wing men or wing woman kind of help you. And i'm guessing there's a lot of gold in this community. And if you start asking questions, that sounds like they love to help you out .

now I think um let me ask a question. I would be about the same age and I think I think often times people in in our generation have a harder time asking for help.

Fair to say um IT is I mean, we did a we did a go fund me and we got you know we raised thing like twenty six thousand dollars in the first week of IT and that covered any like past do and I paid off some benders and i'm stubbed in the sense that I didn't want to fell a bankrupt because I have been a filter up and I know how that affects accounts.

But yes, I have a heart time asking because in my mind and you know everyone works hard for their money so I don't want to be like why don't you help me? obviously? No, no.

But that's not what you are asking. You're saying i'm gonna you you're not saying one of you help me. You're going to say I have an opportunity for you, right? It's to be a shareholder in this see was so cool about what what you're talking about is surfing is bit to me and i'm I in california, it's very intimidating, right?

I don't I wouldn't feel comfortable walking into a surf shop. I really know i'm doing. Can you help me like I I want to place it's like, awesome, cool, let's go.

And and that's what you're talking about. Yes, you're saying this is like, it's like I was a movie doge ble. It's like the gym, everyone else.

And right. And also the other part of this that I didn't really think about because again, in barbados, majority surface are black. I don't think about this.

But in america, in new york, where is the minority in the surfing community? So my aesthetic of the store wasn't, you know, this california based. You would walk in to be bob marley planned in the background, and we have a little bit of rock and a little bit of soul.

And James Brown, and I think people walked in. And like you said, they didn't feel intimidated. And whenever you, we spoke to them, IT was like case station family was always a family conversation, because I wanted you to walk in your feather wet.

And Sandy, yes, you know, you have your board strip of water, because all the smoke in up after is not that serious. And I think that connected. And I know I did cancer, I think I did.

That's why so like gung go to do IT. But you know sometimes it's just good to hear the feedback from people who you've kind of been through IT and that like you said, yes. And as Chris said.

now you've got to start to harness that energy from the people like we want you back. And so every time you hear that, you've got to say, okay, can we have a conversation? I'm thinking about raising money from the community of stakeholders. Everybody have a stake in this business. You know you even have to make an ask, or you can just say, what do you think about this idea and just start to have that conversation? People, I really want people to own this with me because this is an opportunity to serve the community and to build a sustainable business that everybody can benefit from.

Yeah yeah ah okay .

a one point and one gest thing to to consider. I love how you mentioned earlier the surf board lockers. Um I never heard of such a thing but man, that sounds cool.

And yeah do you if you think of the when the store was open, what parts of IT worked really well and what parts didn't? I'm summer, you've I thought of all this, but obviously whatever didn't work. Okay, maybe trim that. But you know is there a way to expand the lockers? I don't know that money maker, I love IT.

I love the vibe that you describe of the shop also, you know people are Sandy feet walk and and use a plain bob mary like IT that that seems very unique yeah, for the surf culture and in new york being one of the fashion hubs of the world. What where my mind is going is march and a perl. Like there's kids in south dakota wearing quick silver, and all sorts of other surf brands aren't within a thousand miles of an ocean, but they just love that culture.

And so is there a fashion designer you could work with that could learn your vibor brand everything? And is that a new channel? I'm assuming you had t shirts and hooters and stuff. Um but could you multiply that times a hundred and really run with that? I don't know that that kind of excites me.

Yeah no, it's it's great to you said that because that is because like like you guys have said this, what i'm been jotting down and for the next iteration and and exactly what you said is what i'm thinking as people came to get station merchandize. Um the lockers are a great business because almost like a description model, you leave your board, we charged one fifty a months and we have two hundred lockers you know and when they're full is awesome and when have for like it's still okay. But yes, I I really appreciate the conversation and know these things you gets mentioned that have been thinking about IT, but to hear qualified people like yourselves kind of so I say .

I am so honor to beyond the show.

I listen to almost every episode when I was starting my business because IT gave me the motivation to understand that everyone started from somewhere, you know, something amazing, guys that are multimillions. Now, you, yeah, I lost my first shipment, like, I got held up in customers, and you like what you know. So I really appreciate, and I never thought that I would be yong, but I really appreciate here .

station first shop. I'm good luck congress on on this. I'm cheering you on. And when I get to to rock away beach, yes, i'm going .

on right to the station.

Thank you. Thank you. Jo, Chris, let you go. I A question I ask a lot of people come and what you wish you knew at the beginning of work, starting your business that you now know that would have been helpful .

for you spend less, save more.

That's a great advice because it's very actionable. I love that. Uh, Chris, thank you so much for coming back on of the thank you .

so much as is fun .

that's Chris router founder and see a Spike ball and by the way, if you haven't heard Chris is original how I built this capitols gotto go back and give IT a listen to find a link to IT in the podcast description. And here is what of my favorite moments from that interview.

At that time, I had no idea how much I was going to cost a manufacturer. I had no idea how much to make a website. Back then, all websites were hand coded. They're really expensive to make packaging marketing at seta.

What did you think you needed? How much money did you think you needed to, to raise?

We actually didn't set a number. We kind of just said invest whatever you're comfortable losing because chances are very good that .

you're gonna a lose IT. Thanks so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for IT for free at guides dot com. Each week is packed with tons of insights from entrepreneurs and my own observations and experiences interviewing some of the greatest entrepreneurs ever.

And if you're working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one mini message that tells us about your business, the issues or questions you d like help with, and hopefully we can help you with them and make sure to tell us how to reach you. You can send us a voice memo at H I V T and I D that wondering that com, or can us at one eight hundred four, three, three, one, two, nine, eight and leave a message there, and we'll put all this in the podcast description. Well, this episode was produced by sam polson.

Also, the music he was edited by john is Bella. And our audio engineer was neo route. Our production team at how I built this also includes alex chung, carsten s. Christmas I David chords codes, jc hower for Carry Thompson and leave a grand and guy rose and even listening to the vicinity on how I built this lab.

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