The Power of Kim Kardashian
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I'm Barry Weiss, and this is Honestly. Hi, Barry. Hey, Barry. Hi, Barry. Hello, Barry and crew. I'm calling today because I've got a question. So my question for you is... So I've been wondering about something for quite a while. I have a question. I have a question for you. I have questions. I have questions. And today, another installment of Quick Question, this time with Kim Kardashian. Kim, thanks for doing this.

Of course. Thank you for having me. It's a strange thing to introduce you to an audience because you're a household name. But in every household and among every member of every household, I think there are wildly different perceptions of who you are. Court, are you serious? I don't want to be in your video game. I'm not going to be in it. Many people surely know you through Keeping Up with the Kardashians, which ran for an unbelievable 20 seasons. I'm going to have such a headache. My earring!

Maybe they know you from Skims, your shapewear line valued at $1.6 billion. I am so excited about this collection, you guys. This is what I'm calling Skims, Skims, Skims. Maybe they're one of your 269 million Instagram followers or they use KKW Beauty. I want to be a little extra glowy.

You guys, these are like crayons. They are so smooth and creamy. Or I don't know, maybe they remember you from hosting WrestleMania back in 2000. Hi, I'm Kim Kardashian, and I'm really excited to be your host for WrestleMania 24.

Here's what I know. Somewhere along the way, you mastered media in a way that has transformed it forever. You created a thing that didn't have a name. It was like you were in digital and we were all still in analog. You became the template upon which this entire concept of the influencer has been built.

You were the first one of us, in other words, living in the metaphors. Then just when we think we have you pegged, you start studying law and taking meetings at the White House. Okay, we have a lot to cover, so let's just jump in. Okay. First things first. Congratulations on passing the first part of the bar exam. Thank you. It really feels so good. Why are you doing this now? Why decide to study law when you are at the height of your business career and a mom of four? I...

I had always been really interested in specific cases. I always was that girl that was really interested in staying home and watching true crime shows, and I got into true crime podcasts. And then I saw a case that really resonated with me, and I really didn't understand why

someone that had a low-level first-time drug offense had the same exact sentence as Charles Manson. I sent the case to my attorney, and once I saw that I was able to make a difference...

There was no way that I could stop. And so I started to get invited to really serious clemency meeting in the Roosevelt Room. And there was all of these really high profile people and high powered people. And everyone seemed to kind of talk this other language that I didn't really speak. And I thought, okay, I am bringing my attorney everywhere with me to translate and for me to really digest what everyone's saying.

And I just wanted to know more so that I can do more. And, you know, I had this conversation with Van Jones. I did his show on CNN and we connected talking about law school and a bunch of stuff. And he said, well, why don't you go? Like, this is the program in California. You know, you need a firm to sponsor you. And so he said, you know, my firm will sponsor you. And he said, why don't you just have a conversation with a friend of mine, a girl named Jessica Jackson, who's this like kick-ass attorney, right?

my age, did it all. And she was in college, had a baby, figured it out. And I looked at her and I was like, God, like,

I could do this. And they were all so encouraging and so excited to be on this journey with me. And we just were like, let's do it. Let's go. And I did it. And I didn't pass the bar. And for people that don't understand and think that this is an easy way out or the easy way to go to law school, I think it's really complicated. And I've heard that a lot. And I try to tune that stuff out

But it does, you know, for all the work that really goes into it, it's four states allow this program and you need 75 college credits. And then you can have a law firm basically apprentice you. It's a full real program. It's like an unaccredited law school with the California State Bar that you communicate with. And you have to do 20 hours a week.

and send in tests. And halfway through, you have to do one bar exam. And it has a 16% pass rate. Then you have to do two more years. And then you take the California bar that has a 36% pass rate. And then you can practice. So technically, because I'm in this program, since I passed, I could practice with another attorney. And...

Hold on. All of my kids just ran into the room. Guys, I'm doing a podcast. Oh, it's not funny. Hi, guys. Hold on, guys. I'm doing a podcast, okay? Thank you. Go out there. So I was, you know, I didn't pass the first time and then I took it again and I didn't pass the second time.

And then a third time I took it and I had COVID and I had 104 fever and I was like, you know, fuck it, I'm going to do it. Like everyone's like, don't take it. They'll only let you take it three times. But because of the COVID year, they allowed a fourth time and I did it. I didn't pass the third time. I was so discouraged. And I'm taking hours and weeks away from my kids. I'm doing 12-hour days alone.

up like every single morning. I have my whole plan. I'm putting in the work. I'm not going to dinners with friends. I've canceled my life for the last two years to really focus and do this. And every time I felt so bad about myself, but so confused.

But I learned something every single time, and I was like, I'm not ready. I got to do it. I got to work harder. And it was so important to me to at least pass this first bar to prove to myself that I could do it. And, I mean, when you have a lot of other stuff and four kids and you're not right out of college and your mind is not in this, like, study mindset like it used to be when I was in school –

It definitely takes a second to recalibrate and figure it out. And then you're like, oh my God, am I just so old that I'm not retaining this information now? And what's happening? Like, why aren't I passing this? And I did it. And it felt so fucking good. Like, it felt so good. Am I allowed to swear on a podcast? You're totally allowed to swear on a podcast. Okay. Well, congratulations. And the original case that you were referencing, the one that got you started...

the one that got under your skin. Were you referring there to Alice Johnson? Yes. Okay. And can you tell us a little bit about her? My understanding is that she was, or is rather, a grandmother who was serving a life sentence for a nonviolent drug charge. Is that right?

Yeah, she worked at FedEx. She had five kids. Her eight-year-old son just got killed on a motorcycle. Her husband left her without any help financially or with anything.

She was desperate, and she got fired from her job at FedEx. And someone that worked there had told her, you know, hey, if you just answer the phone and you say this sentence and be our phone mule, you could get $1,000 every time you answer the phone. She had no knowledge of who she was.

what quantity of drugs. She obviously knew it was shady, but she didn't know the details of anything, and she preferred not to. And she had to do what she had to do to feed her kids. And everyone, it was a sting operation. Everyone got in trouble and got sentences. And when it came to her, she pled not guilty, and she wanted to fight it because she really didn't feel like she had the accountability of what everyone else had done in this conspiracy. And it was her first time nonviolent drug offense.

And she was found guilty and given a life sentence without the possibility of parole, which is the same sentence as Charles Manson. Wow. And when I saw a video that was circulating the internet, I couldn't really comprehend that. I thought, like, how could this grandmother—

that has never had a ticket in her life, all of a sudden get a life sentence for a nonviolent crime. So I sent it to my attorney, Sean Hawley, who worked with my dad on the OJ case, and I had known her forever. And I just sent it the video, and I said, how does this make sense? Make this make sense to me. Who could we call? Does she need money for an attorney? I felt so ignorant. And she...

And I said, you know, I know you're a woman. I'm sure you can understand as a mother. And she was so empathetic and understood and said, why don't you talk to my husband, Jared? And I said, well, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

And I brought him the case and it took him a few months and he really researched it and got the president behind it. And he granted her clemency and eventually gave her a pardon. That was my first experience. And you were really credited with that. I remember in 2020 when she was pardoned and I remember the image of you meeting with Trump and it was this...

very revealing moment because it showed two people who had their roots in a very different world, the world of reality TV and celebrity, now in the White House wielding a very different kind of power. And some people saw it and were like, are we living in a simulation? And others were like, how does it take a Kardashian lobbying Donald Trump to get a person like

And I wondered, what do you think of that? And do you think that celebrities have too much power? I would probably think the same thing, too. Why does it take a Kardashian to get someone like Alice Johnson out of prison? I think our laws are completely unfair, and it really opened up a lot for me personally.

But on the other end, I would have done anything to fight for her. And I don't care if it took a Kardashian or who it took to fight for what's right to get her and so many people out. And Alice was just the beginning of, I think, a movement within the Trump administration. You know, he passed the First Step Act, which was a bill that I think has gotten out.

close to 30,000 people now and has changed a lot of laws inside. So I know that the ultimate goal is to get bills passed and to change the law. But I really believe that Alice Johnson was such an important face to show the public that there are lots of people like Alice inside that don't deserve that. And-

It showed a face with just the statistics of someone that's in Alice's situation. And, you know, I think that people might assume if you're fighting for justice reform, you can be too lenient. And that's not the case at all. There's a lot of people that deserve to be inside and that need to

you know, pay for the heinous crimes that they have done. But if there is someone, I believe in rehabilitation and I believe that Alice just showed America that you could let people out that are in her situation that have spent decades inside for nonviolent crimes that really do deserve a second chance. And I'm always behind a second chance.

You were really credited for helping swing Trump's support for the First Step Act, which has changed the lives of so many Americans. And there were a lot of people on the left that gave you a lot of shit. Yeah. Criticized you a lot for working with Trump, for normalizing him. What do you say to that? I really don't care about the criticism. I mean—

my reputation over someone's life, destroy me then. I really don't care. It was not even an option and he did the right thing. So I'm just about doing the right thing and I'm really not about politics at all. It's really about the people inside and if I can do anything, no matter if it's

Obama, Biden, Trump, like I'm really willing to work with anybody. And I think that I also give credit where credit's due. He did a lot for justice reform. And, you know, I kind of stay focused on what I need to get done. And I think I've been really vocal about not making it about politics for me. And it's not really about being liked necessarily.

What would that change? If I could change someone's life, you know, that's what it's about for me. I admire that so deeply. Thank you. And in a way, it feels like an answer from another time. Yeah. Kim, if we could, let's switch subjects. Let's talk a little bit about fame. Can you describe for me the moment, if there was one, when you decided you wanted to be famous? Oh, God. I...

was so desperate to be famous in like 2007. That was like the ultimate goal. That was like, I had an apartment on Robertson. I mean, you couldn't get more desperate than that. I remember so vividly when The Real World came out and I just saw it for the first time and my eyes just got so wide. And I said to my best friend, who's, you know, we're still best friends today, I said, I'm

That is exactly what I want to do. Like, I have to be on the real world. But that changed, you know? I think it was fun, and it's so fun to look back at that time in my life and to see where you're at. It's so funny because I just...

I love that time, too. Like, that was so much fun, and it was so innocent. Yeah, place me in 2007 in your life on Robertson. Like, take me back there. 2007, we just started filming Keeping Up with the Kardashians. All right, we're ready. No, no, no. We're ready. Here. The wind, you guys. Is this necessary? Go change. Awful. No, that is not cute. Yeah, yeah, yeah, boy.

I need someone to make me laugh. Where's Kim? Kim is always late. My sisters and I were just having so much fun. All of my friends lived on the block. So it was like my friends from high school and so many different friends. We all lived on this street. And the producers that did our show produced the real world. So it was like the biggest full circle moment for me. And I just was so into being famous. I didn't know what it meant. I didn't care. I just thought if you can get

hair and makeup every day and just look amazing and have fun. Like you're living life. Like I didn't have a care in the world. Life was just fun and traveling. Like I had never, I always worked hard. So it's not like I was this like LA girl that just like had everything handed to me. Like I had my first job when I was in high school and I've worked ever since. And I was working like two jobs and I was a really hard worker. And my dad instilled that in all of us. And

But it was just this excitement of, oh, my God, we're getting to see the world. We're getting to travel with the fame. We can go here. We can get this deal and travel to Australia. And we can go to Europe and all the places I had never been to. I was so grateful for every experience.

But I just was so excited about fame. And I look back now and it's just like, it's so ridiculous. Well, looking back, what did you think you wanted from fame? Was it power? Was it freedom? Was it something else? I don't even know if I had a thought of what I thought fame was. I mean, probably the power. I think it just seemed...

glamorous and fun, I still have that really good outlook. I'm not one of those people that think, oh my God, with fame comes all of these hardships. Like my life is so amazing and awesome. And I do get that a lot of it came from the spotlight. And I know that a lot of negative things come from the spotlight, but I don't choose to ever focus on them. So I don't ever...

regret my path or being famous or not. I'm not a complainer about it at all. And I do think that challenges have come into my life because of the lack of privacy, but I still think that overall life is pretty blessed because of everything that we've worked hard for, but the things that have also come into our life because of fame, I'll never complain about it.

In the middle of the 20th century, suddenly there was this totally new thing called an astronaut. And for the next 20 years, every kid in America, when you ask them what they wanted to be when they grew up, said an astronaut. And now we're in the 21st century, and we've got this totally new thing called an influencer. And in poll after poll, teenagers now say that the number one thing they want to be is an influencer.

And so since you are our Neil Armstrong, explain to me as best you can, what is an influencer exactly? And why do you think so many kids want to be it? That's such a good question. What is an influencer? I mean, I think probably dictionary-wise would say that an influencer is someone that has the power to influence a group of people to, you know...

Show them what they think is cool and fun and someone that shares their life with the world so openly. Like, it's very easy to define an astronaut and what an astronaut does. But it's surprisingly hard to define, like, what this new thing that teenagers now want to be is, this thing that you helped create. Mm-hmm.

And I think especially for people of an older generation, they're wondering, what does this new thing do? What are these kids wanting to be, actually? What does it look like? That I don't know because I don't know if, you know, what it looks like is really what it is. So I don't know.

I think I came around at the beginning of social media. So I still did. I mean, one thing that trips me out is I still did all of the traditional media if I had something to promote. And I remember one time saying to Kendall and Kylie, I was like, oh, you know, something about Jay Leno. And they went, who?

And I was like, what? That is so insane to me. You know, I love doing the talk shows and doing the night shows. And I love traditional media. And I love promoting on social media as well. But I had both. Like, I was still a part of both. And it's a really interesting generation that only uses social media. And that was so trippy to me when I think it was Kylie said that. And I was like, you've got to be kidding me. Like, they had no idea that.

who Jay Leno was, you know? And so I think that I have a good sense of both. I think one of the things I find so interesting about you is that

We're from the generation of move fast and break things, right? We're kind of like of the Zuckerberg generation. And in a way, you participated in the old media, but your success in the new media also made them irrelevant in a certain sense. You cut out the middleman. People don't need to go on Jay Leno or Jimmy Fallon or Letterman or Conan. They just go on TikTok now. And that's because of you. That's crazy to think about that.

I find that when I started to really promote on social media, it was more of I really wanted these free focus groups that I thought was out there to help me decide on fragrance choices for my new fragrance launch. I really used it kind of like that, like a focus group. And

I found that I got such instant gratification from the responses that I got. It was like mind blowing to me just that I could ask people a question if I wasn't sure what color bottle I wanted or what color, what I should name something. I can just post it on Twitter and I would get a response instantly from thousands of people, millions of people instantly.

And it was kind of like a trial and error situation that really worked out and that was really fun to be a part of. And I think my brand has always been like so open and honest and I've always wanted the feedback from other people. So it just kind of connected and clicked. Yeah.

Kim, you have 269 million followers, one of the biggest Instagram accounts in the world. And Bo Burnham once said in a song about his torturous relationship with his audience, a part of me loves you, part of me hates you, part of me needs you, part of me fears you. How do you feel about your audience? That's such a good quote, and that's probably exactly how everybody feels that's on social media. Yeah.

I mean, I think that it's not for everyone.

And I respect that. And I respect the energy that it could bring because you'll always have so many positive comments and then you'll see something negative and that's what will ruin your day and stick with you. And it's definitely allowed me to grow a thick skin for sure and just to move a little bit more confidently knowing that, okay, I'm going to post this and this is what I believe in and I'm not like a...

tweeter and deleter. And like, I kind of try to always stay, you know, true to what I believe in and only post that. But I also think it's for me personally has given me a confidence to, you

stand by what I'm posting and what I believe in and what I'm saying and take accountability for those things. And I just try to look at the positive of everything. So I get how negative and how harsh it could be. But I also think when I post something, I love celebrating other people and sharing fun memories and fun outings. And life isn't always like that. And I get that it can look like this fake world, but

It can also just be like a photo album of sharing, you know, your cutest and best memories. And I'm just all about memories and trying to be super positive. So I do understand how negative it can be. And I have kids and, you know, I've started a TikTok recently with my daughter. And, you know, the decision of keeping comments on, taking comments off. And, you know, she only looks at it when she's on my phone, right?

But all of these are really big decisions and I'll do anything to protect my kids. So I get it from all sides, right?

And I don't think that there's going to ever be a right answer on what's a good thing to have out there because it's exactly like that quote, you know? Well, like everyone online, you've been dragged for different things. You've occasionally been accused of cultural appropriation for hairstyles or costumes that you've worn. I remember once an uproar because people felt that an Instagram filter you used was too dark. Now, obviously, a lot of that is absurd and you've rightly ignored it.

But on occasion, you've responded to these critics, sometimes even by making a big change. Like after a lot of criticism about the name of your shapewear company, it was originally called Kimono, you decided to change it. It's now Skims. So how do you decide when to respond to the outrage and when to protect yourself against the outrage addicts online? I...

Always want to take everything seriously if it comes to something as serious as cultural appropriating. Even if I know my intentions, I never want to take anything lightly. And in the instance of Kimono and changing that name, it was an innocent name that, you

Yeah.

got this serious letter and I will make a serious change. And I immediately just halted production and there was a lot of pieces in production. And I said, give me a week. And I had to think of a new name. And anyone that is starting a business knows how difficult it is to come up with a name and trademarking and everything. And I took it really seriously and it just wasn't even an option. Sometimes there are

that I feel like one person on the internet can post and a few other people will post it and it can make some noise, but I know my intention. And if I worried about every last thing that someone said and I had to try to change it, then I would never be me. And I would never, and anyone wouldn't be them. And I mean, that's why I think cancel culture is the most ridiculous thing because I really do believe in, you

You know, and I know you and I have been at several cancel culture dinners together where people are discussing their thoughts on it. And, you know, I really I'm always about rehabilitation and freedom of speech and for people to if they say something that's really inappropriate, you know, especially if they're a teenager and they've made changes. I don't feel like I just I've never really been been into cancel culture. How seriously do you take it?

You know, I believe that if we cancel someone for something that they had done or said in their past...

then we're not inviting them into the conversation to really understand. If someone doesn't know something about you personally and they say something that's not accurate, you don't just want to turn your back and let them think that about you. I would have a conversation with them and say, no, this is what really happened and this is what it is, depending on the situation. You know, you might not care if it's absolutely ridiculous, but...

I mean, it's a fine line, honestly, of like you were asking in the original question of when do you let something go? Yes. And when do you have your thick skin and not care what people say about you, which is the more that I don't care about fame, the less I care to correct people. I don't really care what people think about me. But there's some times where I say, okay, I completely understand how you would feel like this is disrespectful. Yeah.

And I will absolutely change this. I always own up to the mistakes that I make. I try to not make them again. And that's just how I live my life. But I think to not have these conversations with people, how are they ever going to change? If there's something that isn't right that's being said, if you just shut them out, it'll make them more angry. One of the things that I really resonate with or that I

think about a lot and try and guard against is on the one hand, if you want to be yourself online, it means sometimes being unpopular and being distorted and being taken out of context. And sometimes I think that that can harden you, that it can make you sort of immune to criticism. And I think it's important that we all get good faith criticism. And I think it's a very, very fine balance between the two.

And a fine balance because we're used to probably criticism in a classroom of, what, 15 people? But when you see thousands of people criticizing you, I don't care how strong you are, that can affect you. If you see thousands of people praising you, that could affect you also. It's all a really fine line of...

no matter what you do. And, you know, it's something I think that me and my sisters struggle with all the time. And how do we raise our kids in a social media world? And I'm so grateful that I grew up without that, but we got to figure it out because we have kids and it's not going anywhere. So it is a conversation that my sisters and I have often. One of the

biggest explosions of outrage that I remember was in 2018 when Kanye performed on SNL and he wore the red MAGA hat. Yeah. What lesson, if any, did you learn from that? You know what? I was very nervous. I didn't want him to wear the red hat on SNL. I'm not really a rule breaker, so my personality would be like, okay, you guys don't like the red hat, I'll take it off. And I remember...

Other people were around, and it became a thing where he wasn't going to go on because he wanted to be who he is. And I'm very neutral, but I was very that night. I was very forceful with him and arguing with him about, you know, you have to take that hat off. And now looking back, I thought, why should he take that off if that's what he believes in? Why can't he wear that on TV? Half of the country voted for him. So clearly other people like him also. I just, I'm...

I learned a lot from that situation. And no matter what, it taught me to be a little bit more empathetic for people that just want to do what they want to do and like freedom of speech. And if you want to wear the hat, wear the hat. Like I respect the fact that he knew exactly what he believed in and always stood by that.

And that, to me, is like a good quality to have no matter who is against you and no matter what the circumstances are. I think that it's just like admirable. And that's just like a really cool quality, I think. Even if it's not what I agree with or even if I would have done it differently, I think it's commendable. Someday. Someday. Yeah.

After a short break, we'll be back with more Kim Kardashian. Someday, someday, someday I'm gonna lay down like I did on Sunday Hey, hey, hey Someday, someday I remember the new someday

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Okay, Kim, let's talk a little bit about beauty. Was there a moment that you realized that there was something called being beautiful? And when did you understand that you were beautiful? Well, thank you for saying that, that I'm beautiful, or thinking that to even ask me that. You know, growing up, being Armenian, there wasn't a lot of people that looked like me and my family. Everyone, we grew up in Beverly Hills and everyone was, you know, Jewish and

Like, just I never really saw people that really looked like my family. And I'd never even heard of what Armenian was. I didn't know where Armenia was. You know, I don't know if I felt beautiful. But my parents told me all the time, you know, and my sisters that you were. Yeah, I mean, they would tell like all of us like, you know how parents do. But all parents do that, you know. So I always felt very loved. I always felt very secure. I had such a good childhood. Yeah.

But I don't know, I get so like shy saying like, I felt that I was beautiful when I was 10 years old. Like I always just felt confident. I was always shy and quiet though, but I always felt like my family made all of us feel beautiful no matter what. But it wasn't a source of power in your mind that you had this amazing personality.

look. That wasn't what it was about. No. And I feel like my family was the power. Like no one could fuck with us. Like it was always us together, like no matter what it was, but it was never like using our beauty to get here or to get this or to get that. It was more just like,

oh, well, we're a family, so this is how we're going to get here. It was never like, oh, life was so easy because people think this of me or people think that. It was never really a conversation about that. When I was growing up, I remember so clearly in middle school that I remember people worshiping Kate Moss, the girls, and there was these Calvin Klein ads. I'm sure you remember them with Kate Moss, and she was like 90 pounds and

Everyone wanted to be that skinny. Did you have a feeling of, wait, that's not my body type and I feel strange that I'm so curvy when this is the sort of physical ideal, or at least it was when you and I were growing up?

Oh, absolutely. It was all about like nineties, like heroin chic. And I would walk by in high school and people would like smack my butt and everyone used to do that. And like, it was so bizarre. I mean, I had huge boobs when I was like, you know, 12 years old and I was always really curvy. Nobody looked like me until the end of high school. And then it was Jennifer Lopez and Salma Hayek. And I was like, that's, that's it. I see it. I see it. And it was like,

I finally felt like, okay. And it felt so good. But I do get what you mean. Like for so long, it was just, I mean, even more so than that, like when I first started to get into fashion, no one would send me clothes because they were like, there's no way this is going to fit her. And I was like, I promise it'll fit me. I'll squeeze into it. And everyone just assumed I was so much bigger and

Then when I'd start to go to fashion shows, it was so hard to get things or people would send such big sizes because they could never imagine that I would fit into things. And so when I started to have friends that were designers and they would make collections that would fit more of my body type, I felt like, okay, this is a win for the curvy girls because people are starting to design differently now.

And that made me really proud. You have almost single-handedly, along with your family, changed the beauty ideal. You've changed the idea of what it is to be beautiful. And I guess I wonder how conscious that was when you think back to the way that J-Lo and Salma Hayek sort of shifted the paradigm. Were you aware that you were now doing that for a younger generation, sort of shifting the ideal away from heroin chic to, I don't know, the...

Kardashian curves? Not at the time. I really wasn't aware in real time that we could possibly have an impact or an influence on the way people would, their beauty standards would change or body types would be more accepted. We really didn't think about that. I mean, that was just the norm for us. So I just thought if anything, okay, what's the solution to this? Well, if I can't, you know,

find clothes that fit me, like, how do I figure out how to make them? Or same thing with skims, like with skin tone shapewear, like, why doesn't this exist? Like, how do I, if I can't find it, how do I figure out how to make this so that it does become a norm?

There's been a lot of focus recently, which I'm sure you've read, on the potentially toxic effect that platforms like Instagram have on girls, especially teenage girls. There was a stat that came out from the Facebook whistleblower that I think it was 32% of teenage girls said that when they felt bad about their bodies, Instagram made it feel worse. Now, there's some people that say...

As we just said, girls have always felt bad. And it used to come from Seventeen Magazine and fashion and Hollywood. But then there are those who say, bullshit. You know, these platforms are radically different. I'm curious where you fall in that debate. And also, knowing that there are tens of millions of girls looking at your pictures, how do you think about your responsibility to them? I fall somewhere right in the middle. I completely...

agree with that statement of, I can see how people could see these narratives that people want to put out there of their lives.

However, I also, I'm super motivated and I found my personal trainer on Instagram by seeing her relentlessly post her before and after photos of being a little bit heavier and changing her entire lifestyle and getting into shape. And she motivated me and changed my whole world for the better. So I choose to also...

follow accounts and view things that are super inspirational to me and motivating to me. And I know that that's not that easy to tune a lot out. I think because I'm so at a place in my life that I just don't read through bullshit, that like I don't let that come my way energy-wise, that I can look at it when I want to on Instagram or I could not and it wouldn't really...

really affect me either way. Like I'm at a place where I really know myself and I've been through a lot that I use it just for, you know, to share glimpses of my life. And I realized that younger kids might not be at that place and it took me a long time to get there. So I try to put myself in my nieces and nephews and my kids' shoes to see how they would feel. And I would never, you

want anyone to feel anxiety or pressure from what they see on the internet to be different than who they are. And I spend extra time with my kids and my nieces and nephews to make them feel loved and supported and heard.

and fulfilled in our everyday lives that if I do choose to do a TikTok with my daughter, that it's just fun and it's just mother-daughter bonding time. She is still too young to have an account on her own, so I couldn't imagine what that would be like when she is, I think,

I'm going to have to learn along the way, just like every parent in this time where social media is new, we're going to have to figure it out. But I see both sides. I mean, I see Instagram accounts where people share their cancer journeys that I never would have known this person across the country. And I, you know, feel for them and pray for them and share their stories with my friends and put out positive energy. I mean, there's a lot that you can learn on social media. I'm

I learned about these women playing sports in Afghanistan, you know, and reading stuff about them on the internet. And I was able to connect with Rabbi Weiss and get a plane for them to safety. I mean, so there's things that, amazing things that you can find out. I found out about Alice Johnson on the internet. I

I always try to look at the positive thing, even if the hardship is really hard and a struggle, just like how I viewed my fame. I'm never going to sit and complain that my life sucks because I'm not private like I used to be, or I've had awful experiences in my life, getting robbed and tied up and at gunpoint because I was too public and showing off my things. But I still feel like all of those experiences are

And had I not been super public and had I not had those experiences, I wouldn't be who I am today and I would have never had the awareness to want to help other people and do the work that I'm doing had this not been my journey.

And so I just try to look at everything, whether it's like these awful experiences or social media and all the bad things. I just really try to look at the positive from it and just try to change the negative in the way that I can and try to just –

live my life as positively as possible. Well, you brought up your daughter and I wanted to ask you one last question about her actually before a quick lightning round. Yeah. The other day, North went live on TikTok and she stumbled into your bedroom and she caught you in bed on your phone. Mom, I'm live. Stop, you're not allowed to. Okay, bye. And you say to her, no, stop, you're not allowed.

And I laughed to myself, and I couldn't help but see the irony because...

Kim, in many ways, you're the opposite of a cautionary tale, right? You did all the things. You say you follow the rules, but come on, you broke so many of the rules. You didn't always do what was allowed, and you won. Like, you won so big. I guess I have always thought of myself as just like, I'm scared to break the rules, but I still do. Like, I guess you're right. Like, I do break the rules. I didn't really think about it that way. I'm cautious. You know what it is? I care so much about what other people think.

that I try to do it in a respectful way, even if I break them. Right. I think that's a really great way to put it. So it's like, you know, you might not have started a Silicon Valley company in a garage, but you definitely broke the mold. And watching her go live and you say, stop, it's not allowed, I guess I asked myself, isn't it inevitable that she's going to do with the newest media what you once did?

Absolutely. I mean, Northwest is Kanye West's daughter. Just, I mean, forget she's his twin. So she will, she'll definitely do all of the above. But I, in my household, there are rules. And she did feel really bad about that. And she apologized to me and she said, I saw on TikTok that I got in trouble. And, yeah.

And I'm really sorry. And she got it. And then my nephew, Mason, wrote me the cutest message. And he was notorious for doing that. He used to go on these Instagram Lives and spill the family tea of who's together, who's not together, what's going on. And we used to like...

Oh, my God. He would get in such trouble. And he wrote me the cutest text message yesterday. And he said, I don't want to disrespect North, but I don't think she should do lives unless someone is with her because people are going to screen record her. And she might tell information about the family that isn't correct and stuff like that.

She will regret it like I did. And I did the same exact thing. And I would always go on lives. And now I regret saying one of the things that I said. So just for her safety, I'd love to talk to her. How old is he? His birthday is today and he's 11. Oh, my God. I love that he's being her publicist. He used to get in such trouble for stuff like this. And it's so cute that now he's realizing how inappropriate that is and wants to tell her before she...

says anything she shouldn't say or shows, I said, what would you do if I was just getting out of the shower? She totally would have come in. A hundred percent. She has like no, no boundaries. So I had to put a stop to that. That would have actually broken the internet. Okay. One more break and then I'll ask Kim Kardashian who her favorite SNL cast member is. Stay with us.

Kim, lightning round. Real quick questions and quick answers. Okay. Do you ever go out in disguise? Yes. Like masks, sunglasses, baseball hat, nothing like crazy. The strangest thing someone's asked you to sell or promote? Oh, I mean, I think just the irony of selling like diet pills, you know,

Also with cupcakes and promoting like Carl's Jr. all at the same time was really, and Skechers to work out in, like the combination of it all together was really wild. What reality shows do you watch? Oh my God, I love Hoarders and I love Dateline. I know that's not like a reality show, but it's very real. Who intimidates you? Who intimidates me? People, I don't know. I was going to say like politicians, but they don't.

Maybe just my daughter, North. Who's the nicest celebrity? Oh, my God. Sarah Jessica Parker is the nicest celebrity on the planet. Snap your fingers. You're not famous anymore. What's the first thing that you would do? I would go to the grocery store. Favorite Kanye West album? Ooh. I really like Yeezus.

Just because it's like, you know, when you're there and you're in it and you're, you know what I mean? Like you see from start to finish. I really love my beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy also. Favorite Taylor Swift album? I mean, I like all, I really like a lot of her songs. Like they're all super cute and catchy and I'd have to look in my phone to get a name. What do you smell like? What do I smell like? KKW Fragrance. But no, I smell like Gardenia and like Tuberose.

All the time. Who's your favorite SNL cast member? What a setup. What a setup, Barry. You know who it is. Do you believe in God? Of course I believe in God. Boobs or butts? I mean, butts. Best piece of parenting advice? It's just like, be easy on yourself. It's hard. Are you a feminist? I don't really like titles.

But I believe in fighting for women 100%, but I just also believe in fighting for what's right. Speaking of titles, are you a Democrat? I don't really, yeah, no, I don't really like titles. I like some of the, I don't think either one is, I believe in the rights that the Democrats want, but I believe in the taxes that the Republicans want, and I'm a mix of both. Will you ever run for public office? As of right now, no.

It's nothing that I would think of or want to get into. I understand the responsibility and it's an extremely hard job and I don't know if I'd ever want that. If you do, can I apply to be your campaign manager? Absolutely. I would love that. Last question, Kim. What advice would you give your 18-year-old self? Don't change anything because it all made you who you are today, even if it doesn't seem like it and it seemed dark or scary.

And maybe spend a little bit more time with your dad because you only have a few more years left with him. Kim Kardashian, thank you so much. You are so welcome, Barry Weiss.

Thank you, everyone, for listening. And thank you again to Kim. If you're new here, well, this is a show where you can find me and my co-host, Kim Kardashian, talking about body image in the social media age every single day. Just kidding. This is Honestly. We believe that the most interesting conversations in American life these days happen behind closed doors. We want to pry them open by having them out loud and in public without fear. So follow us on honestlypod.com and

And if you have a quick question or a guest suggestion, please send them to tips at honestlypod.com. See you next time.