Episode 379: Kat Timpf: Breaking Binary Thinking and Cancel Culture + Promoting Nuanced Political Discourse
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Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits & Hustle. Crush it! Okay, so today we have Kat Timpf. Never. Is it? Never. Oh, wow. On the podcast. And Kat is, besides being a board member at the time, is a comedian, a writer, a political pundit analyst. Yes, sure. Yes. Good? Okay. That works. When else did you put yourself on the set?

I'm in greater community. I'm at close to the show. On Fox. On Fox. Pregnant. Yeah. I think I kind of mentioned it all. Yes. And this is your second book. Yes. And the book is called I Used to Like You Until... How Binary Thinking Divides Us. And it was... Your first book was a New York Times bestseller. Yes.

And this book actually doesn't even, it's not even up. It's gone. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So it's out of time. Thank you. Hopefully it's going to sell great. Cause I think this is a really important issue. I think that now we will let a single difference in terms of viewpoint or association even, or perception by a person.

Be a natural right-on person entirely. I think that tells us everything we need to know about a person. Well, let's have a look at yours as well. Okay, so it's about binary thinking. Let's just first talk about what is binary thinking in your opinion. I mean, just so everyone's kind of clear on what this is about. Yeah. Because binary can mean lots of different things right now.

Yeah, I just say us versus them, one side or the other. I go through this a lot because I'm independent with a plane, but I also work at Fox. So I get it from both sides. How do you work at Fox and then also have this ideology? It's very interesting. Yeah, so I'm an independent, so it depends on the issue. Overall, I'm a stressful woman, but that can put me at odds with or in agreement with all of the parties sometimes, depending on what the issue is. So I'm in this position where I will get...

sort of criticized is a nice way or really horrific things to me. So then if I view it as a fox because if I criticize Trump or I'm not concerned with my issue but then there's people on the other side some of them haven't even talked to me at all because I work at Fox they're like well that sounds...

me everything, you know, I need to know about you. And it's really frustrating because neither of those things really describe me, right? And I think that a lot of issues are complex and people are always complex and nuanced. And I think that we lose a lot when we keep just writing people off because of one thing about them. We think that we know everything about people based on nothing.

Yeah, well, that's welcome to the world we live in today, right? Like, I don't feel it was ever like this to the extent. And it's just, I feel getting worse. Yeah. Right? And social media has been, like, the biggest culprit for this. And so, you know, it's funny because even when I was telling you earlier, I posted something today that was political, which I never really do. Because A, I'm scared. Yeah. Right? And B, because, like, every time I speak out and say something, I get, like, just...

trolled. And you know, the whole hate culture or the cancel culture of like, even if you have a different opinion, people aren't even scared to even talk about it. So they just either go with what's popular or like PC or they just stay silent. And to me, there's nothing, there's nowhere to go from there. Yeah, I read about that in the book actually too. There's actually huge gaps between

uh studies show this is yeah opinion and what people believe and what they say that they believe because they think that's what they need to say and then also i think that if you are someone who's on one of the two sides so let's say you have a career as a republican or you talk you're talking and it talks

you're liberal and you have this audience and you know that your audience is going to get upset with you if you really say something kind of against your side or that you like something that the other side did and some people won't do that

And I think that, you know, I understand how it can be tough to actually, because you're doing social media, to have to see all that hate. But at the end of the day, people kind of get over it. Eventually, they move on. I have people, you know...

I get criticized by some people and feel like a lot. But then also the viewers of Fox come out to my shows, right? I mean, well, on live shows, they come out. So it's not like it's everybody that's watching that's yelling at me. But in the moment, it can feel like everybody's yelling at you. Everybody hates you. And people kind of want to try to avoid that. But ultimately, I think we're creating this society where we're not having conversations with each other and we're not finding agreement even when we really could find it.

Right. I think that we're all more alike than we're not. But yet at the same time, I think there is, because I think people are afraid of castle culture. And so that's why people are not having that as a beginning. Because you saw what happened, you know, years ago when it started. And it's

People because of that are very, very shell-shocked. When I do this show or this podcast or even in like for life, right? Or in social media, I say all sorts of things and people say to me all the time in private, oh my God, I totally agree with you. But I'm too scared to say that in public, right? Yeah. You get that all the time. I get that all the time. I've also gotten... I recently found out I have a friend who went through a breakup and she

Her boyfriend was a Hollywood director. And you know how in friends book and breakups, you always find out things that they didn't tell you. Yeah, of course. So she actually told me that he wouldn't send her pictures that he had taken of the two of us because he was worried that she would post the pictures and people would see that his girlfriend was with me, which would then affect his career. And I went through this thing.

thing for a while. I was really sad because I was like, I thought this person was my friend. I mean, they already got through a very long time. They already got through almost 10 years. I had a really small wedding. I had 30 people there. He was one of the people there, even though some friends, partners weren't there. Even some friends weren't there.

And I was like, I thought that this person liked me. I thought we had a friendship. And then I realized he didn't. That part was genuine, that we got along. He was just too afraid to post, oh, I have his girlfriend. I'm going to have a picture with me in it. He goes, oh, well, then I do first group. And there are a lot of people like that. I have people privately tell me, you know, people who are famous, well-known. Oh, I really like this person.

I don't want to follow you or like your posts because people might say, this is just ridiculous. It's ridiculous. Well, let's just talk about this, right? Because it's prevalent right now. Not as prominent as it was the October 7th, right? The whole war, right? Pro-Israel, pro-Palestine.

I'm going to tell you right now, I'm pro-Israel, right? And I'm very hardcore about it. Now, however, not being binary here, I do see that those shades of gray with a lot of things that are happening. However, when I'm up there on my platform talking about it, that's exactly what would happen. People are afraid to post about me staying with their friend with a boyfriend because they're nervous that that's going to have a ripple effect to what that's going to mean about other things.

And the other side is that people who do believe in what you're saying, they double down on you, right? So it's very interesting how people's psychology work in this way and how you're not allowed to have an opinion and yet still be able to see other pieces of the opinion because you're unable to like me and disagree with me at the same time.

That is basically my high. Improv. Improv. And for me, my life is very much like that. I mean, I have people who are on all sides of pretty much every issue. And...

they're all very valuable relationships to me in some way or another. I can't imagine going through life without some of these relationships, even though there might be very strong, strong disagreements on various political issues, be it about the election or if they are about foreign policy or things like that. I can go on all sides of every issue, but we'll have all the things in common that we can kind of unite around. And I feel like my life is richer because of that. And

I think it's really sad that a lot of people can't kind of do that themselves. So what brought you to write this book? In terms of you were a comedian, you were right. I even saw that you used to be a writer for Barstools. Yeah. I did a lot of really fun animal street videos for Barstools. That's so funny. I know Ace, and actually she's been on the show a bunch. I'm friends with Erica. She's amazing. She'd go on with it. Right.

I thought that was really funny. So right away, though, that tells me something. When I saw that as part of your bio. Yeah. But you kind of get keyed into, okay, this person's like, in my opinion, she's cool. She's not like so, you know, she's not so conservative in some ways. She can be fun. You know what I mean? Like people do get that kind of vibe based on what your background is. Sure. Everyone's background. Sure. And then they can make a decision. But, yeah.

Anyway, my point is like, go ahead. I didn't mean to interrupt you, but... No, I mean, I got the idea for this book when I was on my... After I wrote the first one, when I was kind of on my way to the tour for the second one. And I...

I just, as I was going along on the tour, I became more and more sure I needed to write this book and was starting writing this book because I was kind of wanting it. I was going around the country, I was meeting all these different kinds of people and I saw how much that we really did have in common. And also I kept having the same experience at these theaters where I would go and the staff at the theater would always say to my team when I was on stage that,

she works at Fox News just because of the show that I was doing. And it's like, well, yeah, I do. And I also, there's some way I'm on there too. I mean, I'm fully welcome to be myself and say my opinion, even though it might be different than what other people's is. And I think that we're

really losing out a lot when we let one thing be enough to not to completely write off the humanity of another person and but i think that we're being manipulated too i think that the people in power over us division works great for them because it's really great to say a vote for me is a vote not just against some of you to speak with but avoid against actual evil that's really motivating

And I mean, but it's also motivating for people to say, you know, I'm on the good side and the other side's bad. Then you get to be good just because you're not on the bad side. And that can be really hard to give up, too. But we're really losing more by, because we could be working together on so many more things. Right. But, okay, so, because you grew up Roman Catholic, wasn't it? Yeah. Super Catholic. Super Catholic. Yes. Yes.

So this is a far cry because that was like you were probably very conservative, right? So I grew up very afraid of the devil. Yeah. Yeah. And now you work for the devil. Some people. Yeah. I grew up like actually truly terrified of the devil. I mean, I was raised very, very Catholic. I'm totally agnostic now. I'm just a question mark. I think I'll be happier if I were religious because I wouldn't like to think that.

I'm going to say she's being older than I. That's kind of a bummer. Right. It's a huge bummer. But I mean, yeah, I was very extremely, extremely tablet. So what was your evolution? How did you go from one extreme until where you are now? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I took it seriously. I was doing Brighton Water for some of her souls in purgatory. Oh, wow. I was very serious about it. I think...

Part of it was, I was having sex with my high school boyfriend, which is like a pretty normal thing to do. But to me, I was like, I'm going to go to hell because I'm doing this. Why should I stop doing this? I will confess it to the priest that I was doing it.

Oh, wow. Yeah. So, I mean, and then eventually I just kind of thought, you know, do I really think that I deserve to go to hell for all of eternity and be in eternal torment because I'm having sex with my boyfriends?

And then I realized I don't think that I do. And so that's what kind of, I mean, in general, I think some of the things that, and also that the Catholic Church that you went to is really, that's a moral sin. And like, if you go to confession, then you're good. But if let's say I went to my boyfriend's house and texted my boyfriend and it was on my way to confession, I got hit by a car, then I would go to hell for it.

Right. So I got your confession. Yeah. To me, that just didn't, that didn't actually sit right with me. I was like, I think that I'm actually not hurting anybody. Right. And so like, what do, how old were you when you kind of had this like, well, I mean, it was like 17, 17, 18. I was probably, I was Catholic until I was about like 18 or 19.

I wonder if it's because I find that when people are so extreme in one area, the pendulum usually does things to the opposite side. Yeah, it is. And it is actually, I write a whole chapter about religion in my book. I know. Which, I mean, my mom died 10 years ago, but my mom said it was so very religious. I mean, there is definitely pressure on me. People want me to leave. As I write about my book, which I'm terrified people will read about, they decide to be older about. That was tough with me and her.

and you know i people can sometimes add me so it's on purpose like i actually told god like hey let's take a hike i'm not interested in life often that's not true i like i love the idea of eternal life and happiness i just can't get there i can't i hope to someday believe in something but i just i don't know did your mom before your mother died were you able to like reconcile your situation with her like i think it's

conversations you have after death are the only ones like that in the movies. Yeah. I think, you know, like, she was like, I'm thirsty. Like, I don't feel good. Like, she's dying, you know? But we were still in a relationship. We had a relationship. Yeah, it wasn't like she was...

You weren't a straight. You weren't straight. But it was, you know, a lot. And my mom was awesome. She was actually kind of a living embodiment of a lot of these. I read about this in this book. She was a very great Catholic. She was so really vulgar. She was really friendly. Yeah, she was really funny. I remember some of the nurses, oh, I remember.

The hospital, she was out described her as a leech, all bitching the Pope and dick jokes. Like she was, you wouldn't know when you're interacting with her that she was as religious as you are. But she took, she was an awesome hand, truly an awesome hand. But like, she doesn't want me to go to hell. So you kind of understand where she's coming from, how it's not that simple to just be like, oh, that's okay that you don't because in her mind, I'm going to hell. So how do you kind of get past that? You kind of can't get past that.

And she actually, she was in the hospital where she died. She didn't have the last rites. I remember she didn't have the last rites. And then she told the priest, like, I'm worried about that. She made me and my brother and sister and my dad go to confess, like, made hear our confessions in the hospital. Because she asked him about it. He was like, we don't really do that. And she was like, I see an open office over there. But she also, you know, who does, like, how does she get him to do that? It's really remarkable. But it was really tough. And I wish people could just understand that it's not like,

I am rejecting the idea of eternal life on purpose. If that makes sense. Yeah, no, it does make sense to me. Although all of this is kind of a little bit upside my, other than like experiencing it and understanding it, I've never been, I've been in your situation. And so, but yeah,

What about, like, now you're a libertarian. That's how you go. Yes. How would you describe that? Because everybody I speak to, whenever I ask them what their definition of a libertarian is, it's always different. Yeah. Always. And so I'm even confused. Yeah. And I'm like, well, does that mean you're kind of more...

Are you a Republican or not a Republican? Are you like the opposite? What does it mean to you? A lot of people say they're more libertarian than not. It just depends on the issue. Yeah, I think that's what it is, right? I think it's not. I mean, it's pretty simple. I say free markets and no junkies. That's what it means to me. Are you like, it's a no junkie? Yes. So it means small government, but all across the board. And that includes social issues. So I'm different than a lot of Republicans in that sense.

I am anti-war, which depends on the war and political parties. And it's for smaller governments. So you don't agree with my stance? That's why it's for the war. Well, I think that... Do you want to talk about this super, super, super complicated... You don't want to talk about it? No, but I'm telling you, this is about being non-binary, right? I think it's about... So I think...

In terms of the United States and involvement in, you know, being the world's police then, I think that we haven't done a very good job of it. So my husband, I remember this, he is an Afghan war veteran, right? And he went over to Afghanistan. And that was a decades conflict. And what exactly did we get from that? I know, it's true. What exactly did we get? And you said this, if you were ever to say this, you were like a terrorist or a traitor or a terrorist sympathizer.

And, you know, I think that's more of a slot in money. And it was really hard watching him go through that because it's, you know, he lost friends, friendless classmates, and then he died over there. And, you know, I think that we have to be able to ask questions about everything. We have to be able to say, this thing doesn't make sense. We have to be able to

listen to each other and not just be like, oh, you said that, therefore you're with the terrorists or you're with this. And it's also the same way with Israel saying you feel for the hostages. I mean, to me, that's... You should feel for innocent... I feel for innocent civilians everywhere, right? Right. But that's... You can't even say that anymore. You can't say it. I can say it. You definitely... Because people like to have... I think it makes people feel...

very comfortable and safe when they have like a sky. Yep. And, and like, so you're fighting with like human nature in that way. Right. Like, you know, it makes me feel comforted when I'm like, you know, that's like kind of like with habits and routines and all the things that I talk about is because it gives you a sense of comfort and like predictability. Yeah. Right. It is to do what I learned about Missville K is for me, it's human nature.

It absolutely is going against human nature. Yeah. Humans are tribal. Humans get good, you know, the bonding chemicals go off when they are not just engaging with people who they see as their tribe. But also, I mean, everybody knows bonding by talking shit about somebody in the group chat.

That's so true. That's what people do though. They do. They bond over like misery and joy. That's kind of what they're coming from. Like people bond over talking shit. Yeah. So true. They do. And I think this just happened on such a larger scale. But when we do engage with people who are different from us, we learn a lot. I mean, if we don't do that, we are. So binary thinking is basically the idea of critical thinking.

I say this in the book. And that's because if you pick a side, all the thinking is already been done for you. So you don't have to stop and assess the issue. And that's easier. But also when people aren't thinking, dumb things can happen. But also it needs to see any kind of thinking creatively. And you just miss out on these opportunities. And so much research shows whether it is religion, whether it is politics, no matter what it is,

If you just get to know people who are from a different religion or from a different background or who have different views, you will not be as easily subjected to believing things about them that aren't true because we're wrong about each other all the time. Often Democrats will believe that a way higher percentage of Republicans believe in so-called extreme beliefs than they actually do.

and singles for the other side. And the only way around it is, unfortunately, going against human nature and getting to know people that are not in your bubble, essentially. Was there any particular story or anything that kind of happened to you that kind of even preempted the fact that you really wanted to write this book? Like, was there, you know, this happened, this scenario happened? I know you talk about, like, Bill Maher in your book. Isn't he in this as well? Yeah, I think it was just the experience of working while I work and going,

Every time you go out to a party and you meet people, what's the question everyone's asked? What do you do?

And I'm always, I read my book that I said that I work in porn before, which I don't. I've actually, and that's only with people that I know that I'm never going to see again. I'm like, yeah, I'm wearing porn. I'm like, oh, that's so cool. And then it's like, actually, they move on, basically. It's not a big deal. Right. But if I say, because if I say we're going to Fox News, people will then, it's not a conversation. People will project every thought and opinion they know about Fox onto you. And it's just exhausting. And it's like, I'm almost...

And I just don't want to deal with that. I'll say I'm a writer. I've said, no, thank you. When people have asked me and the people have weirded out, they just say, really? Yes. Because, yeah. No, thank you. No, thank you. What do you do for the org? I say, no, thank you. And then people are like, okay. Because when I say Fox News, it just changes the vibe a little bit.

And it shouldn't, because again, but doesn't that tell you something though, right there? Like, to me, that says like these, the, the, the democratic people, the left people, whatever, well, they're more, they're much more critical and binary than the right side. But yet a

a lot of times the right side gets overly criticized for being too binary. See, I get it from both sides. I guess you, I don't even buy for me at digital dates. I don't work at that. Yeah, I get it from both sides. I'll get it, you know, oftentimes for social issues, I'll get stuff from the right. Or, you know, my skirt's too short when I wear and she crafts my attitude. Definitely the religion thing.

And I think that's the religion thing. Well, since time, by the way, religion and politics are the two things that you should never talk about. Yeah, and I do. I write all about it. Sorry for living. Sorry about politics. So I definitely get from both sides. I'd say that the difference is, and I don't know if that's just simply because of where I work, but

I find that more people on the right are at least willing to speak with me. Sometimes people on the left won't talk to me at all. Like, I'm not allowed into the room, basically, because of where I work. What's your actual opinion, and you have gray areas, on what's your political stance? Just last time,

So I don't, I don't vote. I've never voted for a vote in our now. I always vote third party. I've never, I never have. And I don't intend to. Like what if what's happening now, I know RFK now is going to be endorsing. Yeah, he did. Yeah, he did. Which I was shocked about that. What do you think of all that stuff? So I understand in some ways why he did it. And there is a lot of pressure to sort of pick a side. If they say, I really hope that he doesn't stop

being able to because what i really like to rfk you know i disagree with some things other things whatever i like the invoice i like that he would criticize the policy and he would not criticize or he would not be swaying based on whose policy it was or the comment so he would say i disagree with this or i think this is a good idea whether it was coming from you know biden or was coming from trump

And I hope he doesn't lose that because he's endorsed Trump. Because he even said in his speech when he endorsed him, he said, you know, I do disagree with something Trump said, but da-da-da-da-da-da. So I, you know, I hope he doesn't lose that because I think those voices are really rare and really kind of precious with the way things are now. Yeah. I mean, listen, I've wanted to hear him speak. A bunch of my different friends had him fundraising and stuff like that.

But the truth of the matter is that people in that position don't have a chance. All they're doing is taking votes away from someone else that you may want to win. Do you know what I'm saying? You see, I understand that, but I don't have... People say this all the time, but I don't. My vote belongs to me.

And people will say, you know, you just have to get over it, make a side. And I don't, I don't fit in on either side. So who are you going to vote for now? Probably, probably the Libertarian candidate. Yeah. Just whoever that may be. And it does. And so for me, it's not so much that I'm voting for the Libertarian candidate themselves because Libertarian party can be pretty embarrassing a lot. I'm voting for a system where it doesn't matter so much who wins. I mean, I think we put so much emphasis on which people are in power and

and not enough emphasis on the amount of power that those people have. Yeah, that's actually very true. You know? Yeah. I want to take a quick break from this episode to thank our sponsor, Timeline Nutrition. We all know that being our most successful self requires us to be our healthiest selves. And this is why taking control of aging is one of my main priorities. One thing I'm focusing on to reverse aging is supplementing with MitoPure from Timeline Nutrition.

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What do you think of Kamala? What's there to think of her? She doesn't say anything. Nothing. I find that you're preaching to the camera. She's truly been on every side of most issues, so I don't know what side she is on other than now. You know that right now, she also said that she was going to be putting hundreds of millions of dollars to the wall that they started, that Donald Trump started, right? After constant criticism of how that wall was such a divide.

That's the problem. However, the issue I have is that women, because she's a woman, people are going to vote for her just on that alone without knowing her policies, not knowing what she really stands for. She really doesn't stand for anything. The media makes her look awesome. I mean, she's become this manufactured thing of like she's...

Cool. Cool? You know, she has a girl that you want to go out with. You want to go out with her? No, it's not. But I mean, it's all manufactured. Yeah, but see, that's the problem also, right? So people are getting swayed more to one side or the other depending on what media they're following. Media is a really big problem because it's all profit. A lot of it is not...

True. It's not authentic. You work in me. You work in me. I work at Fox. I work at Fox. And it's interesting to me. I actually just directly addressed it. I write a lot about Fox and it's kind of as a lightning rod in the book. And, you know, it's really interesting to me when people are like, how could you work there and Fox is this and you're serving? It's like, well, yeah, it is. But you're acting like there's no need for liberal slants.

Yeah. You know, there's a lot of people who will say that. And also for me, it's just a platform. You know, it's a platform that I'm very grateful for. And it's just, I've worked elsewhere, so I don't really know, but having that freedom, they don't ever tell me I can't say something like that.

at Fox. I've now really been like, I want to say this, but I'm just told I can't. So I'm very grateful for that. How did you get the job at Fox? Like, what did you do? You're like, again, like a professional evolution. Yeah, I was a writer and I just

I eventually got on "BreadEye," which was the Crix 3AM show before he had the new show. It was a show called "BreadEye" at 3AM. I used to actually watch it back when I lived in LA, just working as a waitress, working at Boston Market. And I was like, "I'd be really good at a show when I'm saying that." When I was watching it with my boyfriend and his brother, his brother would be like, "You're a cashier at Boston Market."

I show him, right. But I, um, that's a great story. Yeah. Yeah. So you were working at Boston. See, this is the cliff, by the way. So you were working at Boston market last year. How many years ago? Gosh, it's been, so I also all, I always know this mold my cat is. So it's been 14 years.

Yeah. So you're cat-like. So 14 years ago, you were working in Boston Market and you're watching this show at 3 a.m. on Fox. So you go down to 9-11, right? Right. And they were like, hey, you know, I've been really good on this show. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And I...

I always wanted to, you know, work with Greg. And I started getting guest appearances on Fox just because of my writings and the industry videos I was doing. I finally got on Red Hot. I was so nervous, but I just kind of pretended I wasn't there. And Greg and I ended off. We had really great, you know, iron chemistry. And so he kept asking me to come back. The most you can get asked back as a guest on Red Hot is like every two weeks.

So I was going back and reaching these. And then during that time, I had an email that they wanted me to fill in all the pilot they were doing, which I understood was an audition, which is for the new weekly show. So I did that and I got the job, basically. So, I mean, it was kind of crazy just...

you know, how specific of a goal that I set that happened. Really crazy. Wow, that is so crazy. Yeah. I even think, to be honest, it's crazy that at 21 years old you were watching that show. Yeah, well, rather than it was like a raushy kind of weird...

I don't know how else to describe it. So, is it a popular show? It was on at 3 in the morning, but I had the occult fog. I was going to say, like, what kind of numbers would the show get? I had no idea. But I think it was a lot of food service employees. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is amazing. And so you've been at Fox for this whole time? I've been at Fox for nine years now.

So just kind of different in different ways and different positions basically for shows. I've always been on Greg's show. We were just a weekly show at first and then now we're on every night and I do all these other shows there as well. Wow. And then you also tour them with the community with the

Yeah, on tour, yeah. So do you, like, stand at, like, the Comedy Store and all that, too? Or is it just... I think most... I was doing stand-up to kind of just prepare for my tour in New York, getting up around New York and stuff, trying out new stuff. But I'm on tour...

Every weekend. But I'm not on the show. We need something to be a session of water too. Do you have a Netflix special? No, not yet. Yeah, but it's a new one. This is going to be like the Boston Market thing. But yes, it's good having Netflix. Yeah, I think I would be really good at that. So you don't open up for anybody else on, you know, on story? I don't know what I would. Quite frankly. Yes, I'm also having a...

Wow. So your schedule is basically, do you still write independently for others besides both of the fours? Yes, folks. So, I mean, I'm on Fox by the end of the week and I'm on tour the nights that I'm on Fox.

Wow. I think I'll have like one or two weekends off before I'm not on the fly anymore because of the baby. I know. So what are you going to do? What to have the baby? Are you going to give it to him? My best. Yeah, my best. I love that one. I don't know. I don't know. I didn't really Google it. I was kind of just like, all right, well, I'll, you know, I'll get another girl out. And I got pregnant.

On your funeral? No, not on my funeral. All I did was have sex, which I understand that's how that works. Yeah, that's kind of my thing. I know. How is that? How? I didn't get any of my sins. No, I don't even know how to hold a baby, so I'm going to have to find something to hold someone's baby. You know what's so funny? Some things are so funny. You know what I had on before you came on? It was like the leading child development psychologist in the world.

in the country, whatever. And we actually were talking about that before, how like there's no like license to have a baby. Like people were like completely incompetent, not to say you are, incompetent or some are, have a baby and people just have to figure it out as they go. And that's, you figure it out. Like, I think you're going to figure it out.

That's not helping. You know, I mean, I'll figure it out, right? I mean, yeah. You're smart. I mean, I never felt like I saw myself as somebody that won't have kids. And my husband, I was like, oh, he has kids, I think. Really? Yeah. How long have you guys been together? We've been together, it'll be six years, but I didn't want to get married. Oh, wow. So is he in the same world as you? No.

He's a finance guy. Oh, he is? Yeah, he likes spreadsheets. No way. He likes it. He loves it. He loves spreadsheets. He enjoys it. He's obviously the brain of mine. How did you guys meet? I met him on a date. Oh, really? Yeah. I met a lot of people that were not my husband on a date.

I didn't like him at first because he wasn't my type. I really liked the creative type and stuff like that. And my sister had been sitting a lot with him. And, you know, we just really balance each other out really well. And he's my biggest supporter. That's amazing. It's just...

I mean, I'm a wadding handle. I'm a nightmare, honestly. Sometimes, yeah. Why? Is it because you're opinionated? I'm too opinionated. I'm impulsive. I'm also pregnant, so I'm unmedicated. I have ADHD and I'm going to stimulants my entire life.

Except for right now. Like, I started really when I was five. And now I'm on Stenula. And it's been a real struggle. Oh, wow. Yeah. So this is the first time you've never been on any. So other than the times when I was, like, hospitalized. Like, yeah. Wow. Yeah. But everyone always says they have ADD. But, yeah. And it's really. A doctor noticed I was five years old. Oh, shit.

So, yeah. Really? Definitely have ADHD. Are you on now? Not now. Did you change to Agarol? I took a 5-inch. I took a little AC 5-inch. I'm going to take 5-inch again. Do you feel a major difference? Yes.

I have to, it's really hard for me to read and write and pay attention and also regulate my emotions and pretty much everything. It's hard for me to do anything, actually. Wow. And he's been very, very supportive, like very supportive.

And I've also, I'm very self-aware, which I think helps. Or, you know, a common scene will be along the lines of like, hey babe, can you like, can you work on me picking this up a little bit? I'm like, you want me to move out? I'm like, okay, sorry. And you're pregnant, so your functions and hormones are like through the roof. Yes. So sitting here doing this, is it really hard for you? It's hard for me to do anything.

so there's a different part for the course i'm not kidding but i'm trying to view it as like this is i i i you know i'd be a good i was like a new exciting experience of like okay i already know what it's like to be medicated let's just like accept that you're not and go all the way into feeling all the things and doing all the things so i don't spend time kind of feeling sorry for myself about

No. Holy moly, I could. Kind of just went all the way into it. Can you, I remember when I was pregnant, I drank a cup of coffee. You're allowed to drink coffee. I'm drinking coffee. You are drinking coffee. Yeah, but I can't, and also I won't make a team. Obviously not doing that. Right. Yes, I'm obvious. I'm not being weird. Were you a smoker? I was a smoker. Not really. I smoked when I was drinking in college, although I did drink a lot in college. I think,

a lot of people yeah like now i'm like why right but um yeah yeah you know everybody's like drinking just incessantly and you're like oh yeah sure that you do and but and that's what people do in college that's what they do yes and i was vaping a lot like incessantly and i was vaping like two at a time so like with that but

almost two years ago and quit vaping. And then I was using this little nicotine gum and like Sands pouches, they helped me write, they helped me focus. - What happens if you take a nicotine gum? I mean, I don't remember this, but if you're not smoking it, nicotine itself is very damaging to the baby. - Yes. - Right, but like is there a way that they can wean you off of it? - I just thought, I just thought. - Whole turkey? - Yeah. - So you want whole turkey and all of that? - And everything, yeah.

wow, I'm surprised you're even sitting here. It doesn't go hard for you to do. Yeah, I mean, it's...

I'm interested in this. I like talking about these issues. I like talking about my book. It's like it's miserable for me to be alive. Maybe the first train ruster was. Does it cost? Because ADHD, it sounds like we said that all these other things, like anxiety and depression, because your emotions are not regulated. Yeah. That's what was happening. I thought you're allowed to be on meds now. You can, but they're kind of like...

So you can, but we don't really know how it affects the baby. So I wasn't comfortable with that. So I was like, I'll just, no. Because I'm going to want to be like down the road. Something's wrong. And I'm like, is it because I am? So I'm just, I'm doing, I'm doing nothing.

Yeah. You know, I'm just, and thankfully I have supportive people in my life who understand. And I'm still working very hard. It's just harder. It's harder. I know. Yeah. But you could get probably always distracted or you can't focus and all that. So it's hard. It is hard. But I'm doing it. I could never do this for myself. I don't love myself this much, but I haven't even met this baby yet. Right. And I don't even love this baby enough. Oh,

It was just so weird because I always said, like, how are people excited about me and then when you meet them? Because you don't know they're going to grow up. They could suck. Like, this kid could grow up and be, like, the worst. It could be the worst. Yeah. I don't know. It's so crazy. I'm doing all this and it's going to be so weird. Like, there's going to be a baby living in my apartment.

I know. Isn't that weird? It's so weird. It's going to be like needing me to stay alive. And then it's going to start to talk. I mean, if all goes well. And then it's going to tell me no. It's going to tell me no. And I'm going to be like, listen, I didn't chew any nicotine, no. For you. Or take medicine. You can have the best shot and you're going to tell me no? Trust me, it's a fabulous job. Yeah. Pretty quickly. That's, yeah. Do you know if it's a boy or a girl?

My doctor does. I don't want to find out. Oh, you don't want to find out? Yeah. I don't know. I think it's a boy. My husband thinks it's a girl. Just for no reason. I can tell by how you're having a baby. Well, you think it's a boy too? Let me see. Can I see it? Well, kiss it. Yeah. It's like low. I just want to ask.

I think it's a boy. Yeah, I think it's a boy too. That's what I think. It feels like a boy. Well, you're low. That's why. I have a boy and a girl. And that was, I remember for me, it was like low. Yeah, I feel like it's a boy. It just feels like it's a boy. But you're nauseous. So that means it might be a girl. Because girls make you really nauseous. Right. And it's a disaster, which they say that about the girls. That is a little too much.

So I just had like everything. It's twins. Yeah, it's not. It's not. But I mean, yeah, I just kind of want to be surprised. Well, that's what my mom did it. Yeah. And I kind of want to do as many things like how you made she did it. Although she didn't do medication. So I'm kind of like curious about it. I kind of want to. She didn't do medication. I'm going to try to do it without medication. You mean without an epidural? Like getting birth without it.

Okay, I'll tell you something. I did my first one with an epidural, the second one with nothing. Honestly, if you can go without doing anything, it's better. And you heal much quicker. Yeah. Much quicker. And your back up and add-on, much better. If you can do it. I mean, it depends. I agree.

I'm just, I'm also, this is so weird, but I'm curious. Yeah, you're curious. I don't know how it feels. I know it doesn't feel good. I know it hurts. It's excruciatingly painful. But I, so I had a, I wrote about this in my first book on bowel perforation. What is that? It's like, I have a hole in my colon.

And I had an ileostomy, like a little shit back for five weeks. I'm okay now. Everything's fine now. What was this? This was 2020. Wow. But this was, that is, all this to say that hurt very bad. Yeah. And there was no little baby in the end of that. That was exciting. Yeah, exactly. Maybe if I could get through that, I could get through birth.

You could probably, I think people are surprised. To be honest, I felt it to be worse on the epidural because everything was just worse on every level. And like, if you just like psych yourself up for what it is, I think you'll be okay. I mean, it's excruciating. Don't get me wrong, sure. But it's just, it's excruciating with the epidural in a different way than if it made sense to you. Yeah, because for me, it's like the pain, at least,

It's supposed to be. Yeah, it must be painful. It's not like other pain I've had like that where it's like this pain means you're dying and you need a surgery. That's right. It's actually a lot different. Exactly. I have no idea what I'm talking about. I've never even heard. So maybe I didn't even handle it. Maybe I'm like such a little...

I can't handle it. You need to give me the drugs. And I am. You can at least plan for the natural. And I might immediately be like, no, I can't. Screw that. Give me the drugs. That's what my people do. Yeah. I didn't have a choice the second time. I had to do natural because they were trying to give me the epidural while the baby was coming out. And that's when I thought that. And just then I had the baby. And I was like, oh my God, it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. I'm so happy I didn't get the epidural. But then you have the two comparisons. So just for that kind of information.

Take it for what it's worth, you know? That's my goal. Yeah, that's my goal. Definitely a hospital. Definitely a hospital. Oh, I was talking about this with some friends the other night, actually. Pretty much every person that I know, not every person, but most of them that I play on this phone, they're saying a lot of them are vomiting, needing to go to the hospital anyway. Oh, really? I don't feel like anybody does that. To me, that is...

crazy. Yeah, I just, I want the drugs there. I want the drugs around. Just in case. Just in case. I also think, like, so much shit can go wrong if you don't even think of. Like, why would you put yourself, like, you go through all this stuff, not doing the nicotine, not doing the medication, not doing, and then you're going to put yourself in a situation where shit can go wrong that you're not even thinking of. But I love that. Like, I'm somebody who always calls the doctor and hasn't responded. Are you a hypochondriac? So he says yes.

You have a truck. Don't say it. I say no. It depends who you want a truck. He says yes. Although, I ended up being right that I was dying when I needed the shit bag. What happened? I mean, it was really bad. I was like, I need to go to the hospital.

But I also called the doctor for everything. What caused the stomach? It's not sure. I think it could have been from a colonoscopy that I had, but you can't really prove that because it had been previous a couple weeks before that. Wow. It's just a very rare... I don't want to discourage you from getting those because whether it was that or it was something, I guess it was really a rare, rare, rare, rare thing to happen. It's like a .0001 thing to happen. So I was...

that small percentage is someone. And it was me. It was you. So then, like, what happened? Did you think that you had to wear, like, were you just lucky that it only was five months that you had to wear it? Yeah, it was really small. It was really minor. It was a really, really minor thing.

So you do like walk around with it outside, like wear it stuffed in your pants? You can see there's a scar right here. Oh, my God. So I have my pillow on my head. Well, this might fit in there because I'm having a baby and a child, but I have my small intestine coming out of my stomach. And my husband, like, still in sex with me. Wow. Yeah. I mean, was he answering his cell phone? He was climbing up with like a belt, if you're wondering. He wasn't out there.

out there. I was going to say, how did you find it? It's boring. Yeah, it is. Oh yeah, I can show you later, but I really want to see it. Yeah, I mean, it's so interesting to me. I thought you said Rask. I thought you said Rask.

Not only this podcast, I'm a binary, you know. Yeah, yeah. That is so insane. Wow. Well, okay. So congratulations again. I know that you're like, the ADD is probably like, and hot. God bless you for sitting here for, how long has it been? 40 minutes or so? 45 minutes? Yep. Okay. I won't let you wrap it up, but listen. Okay. Everyone, the book is called, I Used to Like You Until and How Binary Thinking Divides Us by Kat Timpf, who's

who's pregnant and who's great. And you guys should go grab her book because it's good. And you guys should just read it. That's it. And you guys, where else? We will find you. Everything. Yeah, it's fine. Ask me if they know that. We know that. There's the old vatimp.com. Everything. Book, tour, everything. The real, minus the real Jen Cohen. You just say it there. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast, even in your discomfort. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. Bye.