Episode 213: Barnes And Noble Super Panel - Max Lugavere, Darin Olien, and Dr. Emily Morse
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All right, guys, we made it. We made it to 2023. Happy New Year. This is going to be the best one yet. I'm not a big person in these New Year resolutions because I don't ever believe in waiting until January 1st. I believe in starting right away. Finally, my book, Bigger, Better, Bolder, has been out now for probably a week now.

And I wanna say thank you to everybody who pre-ordered it because it debuted at number one in business. And I am just so grateful and thankful for you guys. I really do believe that we all can be more bold and show up in our life in a real way

with a little introspection, a little self-awareness, and we can design whatever we want for ourselves. I believe in creating a rich life, and that's not just money, you guys. That's about relationships, meaningful relationships, meaningful experiences. Now, if we're not born being bold, you can...

learn being bold. I have a workbook in the back of the book. So it keeps people accountable and you see yourselves getting bolder by doing these little bold moves. So we are not just acquiescing to a good enough life, but we're actually

Really going after and chasing the life we want. I want this to be a two-way conversation I want you guys to leave me reviews and comments Let me know what type of guests you want me to go after chase after let me know what you like what you don't like your words are

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it!

Thank you so much for coming, everybody, to this book launch panel evening for Bigger, Better, Bolder. I appreciate every single one of you guys coming out on a Tuesday night. Thank you very much. We're going to be doing something a little bit different. This is a live podcast, and it's not live streaming, but we're doing it obviously live, and then we're going to upload it.

But what I thought would be really interesting was if I got a few of my close friends who have been extremely bold in their life and really kind of talk about their

what they think bold is, what I think bold is, and kind of how they've kind of used boldness in their careers, in their personal life to kind of build the platforms they have and how you guys around here and listening when they listen, how they can harness their boldness skills. So basically, it's going to be a bold conversation with, like I said, three great, great friends. First up is

I just say sex with Emily. She's like Madonna, you know? That's how I say it. I don't even know her last name, really. I do, but I never, ever call her that. So Emily, obviously, not obviously, but for those of you who don't know, Emily is not only an expert, a connoisseur, but probably the best in her field in sex education, sex, how do you even call, what do you, what's? Sex educator, sex therapist, sex educator.

I love getting people to feel comfortable talking about sex and relationships and pleasure in a way that's not awkward. And makes y'all feel good. Speaking of awkward, my two kids are in the office. In the office.

So let's just be careful of maybe use some different wording sometimes, but just be mindful of that. Euphemisms. Euphemisms, exactly. And then we have Darren Olean, who is Everything Wellness. He is a superfood hunter. He is the host of...

Down to Earth with Zac Efron, two seasons already, an Emmy Award winner. He is exceptionally knowledgeable on so many different things. Again, I don't even know how to even pigeonhole these people because they've created such a niche for themselves. But we're going to hear from Darren. Darren, how would you describe yourself? What would you say? That was great. That was good? Okay, thank you. But

If I wasn't saying it, what would be your title? If you just met somebody, what would be your elevator pitch? What would you say that you were? Escalator pitch as I was coming up? You know, I'm curious, that's for sure. I'm curious about bettering the gnarly systems that we have going on in the environment.

Certainly interested in continuing the documentary docu-series world, working on more books about... Oh, tell them about that. So you have one book called Super Life, which is a huge New York Times bestseller. Yeah, this one. Yeah, it just so happens to be here. I know.

And he just finished his second book that is called... Fatal Conveniences. Which is going to be massive, and we're going to talk about that. So he's obviously also an author, and we'll talk more about you in a moment. I wanted to move it on to the third person, which is Max Lugavere, who is...

Just super smart and he is all about brain health and actually he'll tell you his whole story, how he kind of evolved his brand is called Genius or Genius Foods. Was that enough to say? Yeah, yeah. That's a fair statement. A fair statement. Yeah.

And he's just exceptionally knowledgeable about wellness, health, overall health. Very articulate. You're going to hear in two seconds. So this is the panel, you guys. And like I said, thank you, all of you, for being here tonight and supporting me and this book. I really appreciate it. So thank you. We're so proud of you. Yeah, we're so proud of you, Jen. Look at all these people. You're going to make me blush.

So, okay, so now I want to, so let's start on that lovely note. Great segue. Does anyone know about your book, though? Have you talked about it yet in your podcast? I've been talking about it. Bigger, Better, Bolder, Live the Life You Want, Not the Life You Get. Yes, thank you. That's cool. Exactly. The book is called Bigger, Better, Bolder, and we're going to talk, let's start. So let me ask all three of you, what does boldness mean to you? Who wants to start? Emily? Emily?

I'll ask Max if you want first. Okay, go ahead, Max. What is boldness to you? Oh, my God. I think it's just... It's like following... It's learning how to hone your own internal compass and to go boldly in that direction. I use the word in a sentence. Is that okay? That's good. And to go in that direction and to be...

And to not necessarily be fearless, I think what's so wonderful about courage is that what we see from the icons that we look up to in mythology, whether it's on screen or throughout history, it's that fear always exists, but it's the courage ones who feel fear, but then go in that direction anyway.

So for me it was really tackling the topic of nutrition and health for people. I was not a medical doctor I didn't go down the path of academia, but I felt really entitled for answers for myself and for my family which we can talk about why but um But then I started to put out work in it and I felt really empowered that I was living in a time where I was able to do that and you know, I could have said to myself I

Who am I? I'm not a medical doctor. I don't have the sort of formal education, but I know that I'm really passionate and I know that intellectually I have certain faculties that might predispose me to being good at what it is that I aspire to do. And I just went in that direction.

Yeah. Because you were at Current TV. You were doing something different, or were you kind of reporting on? Yeah. I mean, I've had a very interesting career. I've never had a resume. So upon graduating college, I got a job working for Al Gore on TV. So I was put on TV.

post-graduation anchoring, and that's when we met, anchoring a TV network that Al Gore owned. And so I was sort of like a journalist, producer, host, or whatever. And I was like in my early 20s and I did that for six or seven years.

And sometime after that, I was at this point in my life where I both had trouble finding another job that I really felt passionate about. And my mom got sick. And that was really the turning point for me. It was the diagnosis of a form of dementia that my mom had incurred. And that really kind of set me off on a completely different path than I ever would have thought I had gone down in my life.

You know, it's interesting. What you just said, because I know you, but everyone always asks you very much about Alzheimer's and brain health and now about all these other nutritional things. It's interesting because you were super bold because, like you said, you don't have a medical background, but you had a lot of passion and interest because of your mom in that direction. And you just kind of like, you didn't think about it. You just went for it because it was something that innately you were really interested in doing.

Yeah, I mean, I'm a realist and I regularly, I'm a very self-aware person. I regularly take stock and take inventory of my own faculties. And I've tried a bunch of different, you know, I've tried a lot of different things in my life and I've failed at a lot of different things. Where did you fail at?

Well, I'm super passionate, for one, about music. And there was a point where I tried to see. I'm not going to say I tried to make it, but I definitely tried to see if I had the chops to ascend in the music world as a singer-songwriter, which is something that I really wanted to do. No way. You knew this. No, I knew you played guitar, but I thought you just did it at your house with girls. I didn't know you did this. For girls? Yeah.

Girls love the guitar. That's what I thought you did. That's not false.

But no, I did. There was a point I was making use of the fact that I... Taking advantage of the fact that I lived in LA and I tried to do it. And I realized very early on that there are people that are doing this for whom there is no plan B. That are doing this from the moment they are able to learn to play an instrument. They're doing it from childhood. And that wasn't my thing. That I wasn't meant to do that. But then...

I realized at a certain point that I was a fairly intelligent person. I was a good communicator, proven by this incredible job that I had on TV, that I was comfortable in front of the camera, that I had an aptitude for understanding and assimilating

research that I was really interested in this, that my brain is, we talked about this on my podcast, that my brain is like a light switch. When I'm interested in something, there's no stopping me in terms of the depth that I'll go. But you retain information really well. Yeah, I have a very selective photographic memory. I don't know shit about the vast majority of topics. I don't know anything about most things.

But I know, but I have a photographic memory for the things that I'm really interested in. So it's like either, which are, by the way, three things. One is like cinema, music, and health. Well, it worked out for you. Yeah, it suits me really well. Right? Really well. And so how about you, Darlene Darren? What is boldness to you, and how have you been bold in your life? I mean, that's a big one. It's really hard to kind of...

grok it but i think it it's definitely in the vein of what mac said in the sense that in spite of your monkey mind saying whatever and and even in spite of the world giving you any sort of feedback that you have this inner feeling in this inner sense and you wrestle with that and then you ultimately listen hear it and then take a step in spite of everything else

And so I think that and cultivating that, by the way, still cultivate it every day because it's way too distracting out here. And it blasts us every day. So I think cultivating boldness is a practice and it is a muscle. That's familiar. I wonder who else said that. Yeah, yeah.

And I think maybe there's people that through, I mean, hell, insecurity can create a massive amount of boldness, which is a superpower, right? Because you have to understand, like, from my perspective, this yin and yang, this light and dark of this world, this tragedy and happiness, they equally exist, right?

So the one hand pain and suffering and challenges are the propeller creating from your mom's challenges into like what I want to create. So it is the propeller and our feeble little minds barely grasp it. But in the reflection of trying to grasp it, you've come to realize that I come to realize that it is a gift telling me and showing me the next step.

And so it's like, you know, I lost my house in 2018, lost everything I owned except a suitcase and the car that I drove to the airport. And luckily my dogs were away. And you can't possibly...

Understand that. You can't possibly get your head around that. However, through the grief and understanding, you realize that I realized that one of the greatest gifts of my life and there's no way I would change it. Do I want that for anyone? Fuck no. Right?

I mean, fudge, no. Fudge. Oh, this is going to be hard. It's going to be. So that. Poor Avalishi's neck. Oh, God. Yeah, it's not all dirty. I opened up the door. Sorry. So I think, and I'll step on that, step on the next step of, you know, the start of most of my career with the superfood hunting thing. That was when I lost my father.

In 2004...

And I was playing around. I had physiology background, nutrition background. And I was playing around and looking at supplements and looking at why are people doing this? And there's some shitty, sorry, damn. No, you can say that. You can say that. There's some not good things in products and foods and everything else. And so I said, you know, my dad passed away and I got, you know, just, you know, 15 grand from whatever was left in his will.

And I started my company and I said, I need to do actually do something with what I'm playing around with. And so that started me literally. I'm a small town kid from Minnesota. Like there's no part of me that would have thought I'd end up in the Amazon looking for medicinal plants. And I literally did it innocently.

And I was just like, I got to know what these things are. I got to know what's in here. I got to know who's creating it. I got to know where it's from. It's curiosity then. Curiosity. And so... The same with you, curiosity. And through, again, through the pain. My dad passed away. What am I going to do? Quit messing around. Just jump into something and do it. And then...

Through that doing, I got basically a phone call serendipitously from Beachbody and I created one of their largest selling products. Of all time. Of all time. Shakeology, by the way, for those of you who don't know. So I started that in 2006 and it launched in 2008. And, you know, it's like, can you make this shake for us? I'm like, yeah.

Sure. Like I was playing around with this stuff and I just said yes. Unbelievable. And so, yeah. So it's like, again, I think the being bold in the face of fear, in the face of challenge, in the face of, again, cultivating that inner spirit.

kind of work to realize what's the propeller that's operating in me that wants to show me something and then in spite of family and people and friends, freaking do it anyway.

And that's the bold stuff. I love that. So curiosity is more or less the gateway to opportunity and being bold because we all had it, right? That's what it really was. You were curious and you didn't let things deter you from pushing forward and acting. Yeah, in order to get to that curiosity, you have to kind of clear some debris, right? You have to clear some understanding of yourself to realize this creative potential

curiosity is just, it's now got me. It's got me so involved. I have to learn more. I have to dig in. Okay, Em. All right. You're up. Bold. Well, I think it's interesting what everyone said here so far that I think that when I think of

the finding like the spark and finding that thing in your life that you just have to learn more about and that you have that you're so curious about what you talk so much about in your book that is thing that boldness is a skill and a lot of that which I think was so fascinating in your book too because I've actually really going pop I'm sorry in some places I'm so bold and all the things I've done are really bold but that it's like in these little places sometimes I'm like oh I could work on that skill asking for what I want even more and going after all those things but for me

bold when I think about it now after this it's going through really not being afraid of taking risks but also knowing that it's when that spark happens that you know that there's something that you have to do and that's how I kind of felt about my field when I realized that there was no

that this was 18 years ago now, but really there was no sex education out there. There wasn't a lot of information. It was before the... I did start a podcast 18 years ago, believe it or not. There were podcasts. There was like three of us. Was there really just... Hold on, who was... 2005. No, I mean, there was more...

mean who was it. Besides Dr. Ruth at the time and Dr. Joyce Brothers, who else was doing that? So when I went to talk about sex in 2005, I realized I was always very, I love reading in your book, it's so Jen, like she was like five years old and peppering all of her mom's friends about like, where do you live? Do you live in a house? How much did you pay? Tell me about your relationship. How much money did you make? I was like, really?

"Really?" I'm like, "But that's what Jen already does, "and that's why, but it's so infectious "because she does it in such a loving way." When you get to be a friend of Jen, it's such a loving thing, and she's actually asking 'cause she's curious, but then she can kind of, using your skillset to kind of help and support your very loyal friend and all the things. - Aw. - But in reading that, I was reminded that I really was like that from a young age, too, around sex. I would ask people about not just sex, but I would meet a couple and I'd say,

How'd you meet? How'd you fall in love? And I was like five or six or eight or 10. I'd always been really interested in like romance and love and what makes a happy couple, what makes an unhappy couple. And granted my parents, you know, side note, like no surprise, they were divorced. So that's kind of led up to it. I was like, oh, so some couples work, how? So I always had a lot of questions and I was always very, very curious. But then as I got older, I realized like sex was happening. So I was a happy, I was a sexual being.

And I realized it was really only Dr. Ruth. So 18 years ago, she was probably the only person. You couldn't really Google it. It wasn't really on the internet. There was a few books. And so what I realized is I wasn't really armed with the knowledge about having, like, I thought it was good, but I'm like, could it be a lot better than this? Because no one's talking about it. No one has any sex was talking about it. Either you had sex or you didn't have sex, and maybe it was good or bad. But even when people would say, I had great sex last night, I used to, like, stop them in their tracks and be like...

What do you mean by that? Like, what do you mean by good sex? And I would literally say, like, back up. Like, good, why? Like, did you have 18 orgasms? You know, sorry. I can do this. Whatever. It's like, what? Listen. So I would take my kids. It's time for 23. I would, like, break it down. I would break it down. I'd be like, what do you mean? Because I don't understand. There's no barometer. Who tells you what's good and bad? And so there wasn't information. So I believe that that, for me, really...

How about Loveline? Were they around? Loveline was around. Who did Loveline? Adam Carolla? Dr. Drew and Adam Carolla, which, yes. And that was the only show that was out there. They were answering questions from people calling in. I grew up on that show. I was obsessed with that show. It was such a good show. Right. We didn't have it in San Francisco at the time, but it was before podcasts. But when I moved here, actually, that was the one show that I could point to that was doing it. And I was actually on it the last four years with Dr. Drew hosting it, which was a wonderful moment in my life. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, I know.

all these things. Oh my God, I want to learn all these things. Okay. So the point is like for me being bold was it was just about, I felt that there was, it almost became this passion. Like you were both saying, like you have to find that spark in your life. And I know we won't be the first person to tell you that, but I could not not ask. Like I was like, I can't believe that no one's telling us

Kids are growing up and going around the world and having sex and there's zero information. This has got to stop. So I did everything I could to educate myself and then I went back to school, got my doctorate. And again, at the time, like talking about it, no one would think that's a good idea. I came from a career in politics. My mom would be like, you have a really great career. What are you doing? Right, because you were doing politics in San Francisco. Yeah.

So how did you then like make the shift? That's a huge pivot, right? It was a pivot. I kept pivoting. So my thing, if anyone here is like, I don't know what I want to do yet. Like this is my second career at like 35. I was like, I don't know what I want to do. But I knew when I was no longer passionate, I cannot fake it. So like the light bulb moment in your brain, like my light bulb, it goes out. Like I can be really passionate. And when I'm not, I'm like, well, I will not be useful to

anybody unless I constantly love what I'm doing and I'm passionate and I'm asking questions all the time. And that's what keeps me going. That is the fuel. So I was doing politics, but then I became really disillusioned by it.

Because I was like, oh, it's all about fundraising. And that is not fun. I thought it was about making a difference in the world. So I realized at the time, I was like, I really want the right people to get elected. But then you got to do the money things. And that wasn't fun. But then I made a documentary about politics. And I realized from there, I actually loved the process of getting people to open up. And I turned that into a podcast.

So that was the first thing then? You went to school for it first or you did the podcast first? I went to school after. Well, I started the podcast and I was not an expert in the field at all. I was like, well, I had some hands-on experience, but I was not. Did you ever? I did not have to. I'm just kidding. Thanks, Jen. I didn't have a degree and I read everything and got my hands on it. I was just talking. Literally, I read hundreds of books.

I asked everyone at Nauseam, grilled them about their sex life, but no. But then I think about three years into the podcast, people started asking me for advice. And although I had a lot of therapy and read a lot of books, I was like, I want to go back to school and get my doctorate. So I did that after I started the podcast. And that was 12 years ago I got the doctorate. You know what I find so interesting? That the people who become the most successful in their area, like Max and you, Darren and you, Emily,

Like you didn't have the wherewithal. Like you were very naive about how it would happen. And because of that, like I say this, like naivety is a strength, right? Because what you don't know doesn't stop you from going and trying something, right? So if you know too much information, you think about all the things why you shouldn't. You don't have the experience. You don't have the talent. You don't have the wherewithal. But having none of it actually is how you become successful, right?

Yeah. I love that you flip all that, the two about also in your book about being mediocre. I'm like, that's awesome. You're right. That has been a skill set. That has been a strength. Tell me about it. I wasn't one of the all-A students in school. No, it's like Mary

very mediocre, but I wanted to figure out what else I wanted to do. So yeah, I mean, you just... But you had that interest. Yeah, yeah. And I knew that I also, being somebody who's focused as a challenge, I knew that if I'm not completely into something, I'm out. And you know when you lose my attention, you know when I'm out. But something about sex is like, and relationships and dating and love, it's not all sex, but that's endless. Like, think about it. It's like there's so much...

there's so much to unpack about like other people, educating people, but also my own life. Like it's just, you know, it's like health. You're never done learning about like health. It's still health. It's sexual health. Yeah, it's sexual health. We are all one. So important. Exactly, exactly.

So then how come you think in your industry especially, there hasn't been like that many thought leaders come out from it? Even though it's becoming much more popular and people are talking about it more and there's all these different like versions of it. But still, you're still like in the top,

top tier. I mean, I think that there's a lot of shame around it. I think there's a lot of fear and there's a lot of people who are still kind of trying to figure it out. And I think also, to be honest, a lot of people just think that they...

And I can't think this is changing with a different, you know, younger generation, but I think people believe that if you have to talk about sex or work on your sex life, that there's something like wrong with you and that there's so much shame and embarrassment because we don't see it in our culture anywhere. That there's just, people are thinking like, I don't know my own stuff. How am I going to go out and

and figure it out. And I think there's not a lot of places to go. Literally, there's not a lot of grad school. I mean, again, starting now more so, but there was not a lot of places to go to learn more, maybe perhaps. But I hope, I mean, I hear from a lot of young people all the time who are getting into this field. So I think it's wonderful. But I think, again, it's stress, trauma, shame, fear, anxiety,

There's a lot of reasons, I think, why people don't venture into it. Even for themselves, they don't even want to go on board and think of like, who am I as a sexual being? Like, that's just off limits for many people, too, because of unresolved challenges. And society isn't actually backing you up, saying like, come on, let's learn. And like schools teach it for half a day, right, with your gym teacher. Like, you think that's a cliche, but everyone's like, oh, yeah, that was my gym teacher. Yeah, yeah.

- That was actually my gym teacher. That's what I was thinking. - So what do they know? They just have a big gym, I guess you could all sit on the floor. I don't know why they need a gym teacher. - Does that happen though? Do you feel like you're getting asked more? - It's true. - That is true actually. - Half a day about this thing that's really,

No, it's true. I got taught on a VHS tape for like two hours or split into two by my gym teacher. Right, exactly. They're like, don't get pregnant, don't get an STD, have a nice life. Yeah, and see ya. Exactly. No, it's 100% true now that you say that. It's actually true. And then when you're young, you're told like, oh, it's this coveted thing that you're going to get to do when you're an adult. And then you do it, and you're like, I don't know what I'm doing. I guess it's okay. I think many of you have that experience. Then no one else talks about it, so...

Anyway, so it's bold just to even just be here and hear me talk about it. Exactly. It's very bold that you're actually, but the two of you men are sitting on the stage with Emily. You're very bold and very, I mean, to be doing this. Let's keep going. This is great.

I told you. I tried to introduce you guys like years ago. God. Anyway, not like that. I mean like as friends. God, you guys, seriously. I didn't mean it like that. So how do you, so let's go back to you, Darren. Okay. Okay, so segue into you. How do you, where do you go from there? Tell us about some. Where do we go from there? I don't know.

Tell, I mean, I don't even know what to ask you from after that. Emily, that was so great. You're leading her. Well, listen, I just, like, there is so much there. And I think just to make a comment on it, it's like, no, but the shame around sex and the dirtiness is,

And the religious kind of connotations around it has just painted this horrible kind of situation. And so I applaud you for boldly going where very few people will go, Captain Kirk. So I'm dating myself. No, you're not. I got it. I got it. But yeah, so I mean it's – again, that's kind of excavating –

oneself too right can I help you do it but can I go ahead please I want to stay till you're thinking yes we've all done really bold things and I think a lot of people but but what I love I want to bring it back to your book for a minute oh of course she's such a good friend no but I mean it because what I love I actually read it going shit I text you I said like I gotta be bolder because I'm bold every day I do big bold things but sometimes I self-doubt I hold myself back this is bold to say all of you like I'm not I'm bold but I have a lot of like I maybe I don't do the

10 tries or whatever, your 10 second, 10%-- - 10% target. She read the book though, good for you. - I didn't know, but like your target of like keep going, like I think that what I love about your book is that boldness is a skill that you can cultivate, which I never thought about that way. Either you're born bold or you're not, and there are some ways you're bold, but there's other ways that really in thinking about

getting what you want in life. And when you're even just the cover, you're like, don't live the life you get. And I'm like, oh God, what am I just accepting right now that I, you know, I think as a friend, you do push me there sometimes. So I appreciate that, that bold is like just a, I love that we were all doing cool things, but like they day to day, sometimes I don't maybe always ask for things that I need like professionally, or I don't, I hold myself back in ways where I'm

I overthink it. Overthinking. What do you say? Like if the overthinking is like the enemy of boldness. It is. Well, I think when you're too smart, you tend to overthink things. Right, right. Because you think of all the things. But I'm also mediocre and smart, I realize. I mean, being mediocre is a superpower. It is. No, but I love the bold tips in here. Thank you. So then what would you say, what kind of boldness, where in your life, Max, would you say,

Would you have to say that you have to work on your bold area? Because you could be bold in one area in your life and not so bold in another area. What would you say? Well, I, jumping off what Emily began to allude to, I think oftentimes we get in our own way. And for me, as somebody who's very creative, and even though my work focuses on health,

health science and nutrition, I very much consider myself an artist and my work a sort of outgrowth of my artistic tendency. And I think as an artist you tend to be, I don't know if others in the audience feel this way, but I feel very precious about anything that I create. And that's something that I've always felt. If I'm going to put something out into the world, it has to be amazing. It has to be something that I consider to be perfect.

But when you're first getting started with any kind of creative endeavor, there is the tendency, of course, to let perfect be the enemy of the good. And as they say at Facebook, done is better than perfect. And so just, for example, with me and my podcast, which I launched in 2018, I never thought that I never actually at the beginning when I launched it, I didn't think that I was any good as a host.

I didn't think that it was going to be successful. I very much thought at the time that there were enough podcasts. Does the world need another guy with a podcast?

Apparently it did. Yeah, well, I mean, I basically, I followed like a formula. And it's not a formula that I discovered on any website or any hidden back channel. It was just like consistency. And it was about not letting perfect be the enemy of the good and just putting out the content and realizing that with the process comes eventually mastery. Whether or not you can see the end of the tunnel with whatever it is that you aspire to do,

I think of it as being sort of like a miner in a coal mine. As long as you stay focused on the chipping away of what's in front of you, there is an end. Even if you can't see it. For me, I never would have predicted that I would have written a book, let alone a book that would go on to become like

New York Times bestseller, anything like that. And then three books. Genius Foods was the first one. Was it Genius Foods was the first? Genius Foods was the first one. That was massive. So I'm not even just saying that to be polite. If you haven't read it, it's amazing. That's how I first met you. Yeah, that was the first book. And the second one? The Genius Life, which came out March 2020, which was... Yeah, not the best time to put out a book. So yeah, it's sort of the middle child. And then...

And I love it, nonetheless. And look over there. And then this is the third book that came out this year called Genius Kitchen, which is a cookbook. But yeah, I never would have thought, ever, ever, ever would have anticipated that this would be my career. Because what I've always been focused on, I don't know if it was like...

You know, something that was just intuitively that I knew to do, but I just stayed focused on like the chipping away of what was like immediately in front of me. But you also knew, I remember like, let's talk about like the social media part and digital and all that because you had to kind of evolve and grow these businesses. So even if that was your world, you had to become creative.

well known in social media and you kind of grew like you kind of grew pretty fast, right? Like your on social media. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, everything kind of grew separately, but in tandem for the social media thing for me, um, there was something that clicked for me with, um, with social media where I completely relinquished the desire to appear cool on social media. Yeah.

And you had an opinion. You have an opinion on there, too. Yeah, but it wasn't even about expressing my opinion. I became solely focused on adding value. That's it. And putting out free content. Because I knew that I would eventually grow a following and that I'd be able to do something with that following. But I think when I first got on social media, I aspired to just look cool and look like a guy who's doing cool things. And at a certain point, that completely went out the window.

And I just started thinking in terms of how can I create content that is going to create value for whoever gives an F about what I have to say. And that's what I did. And the minute that that clicked in my brain, it was like night and day. It was like a switch. And my following started to grow really quickly after that.

Yeah, and now I feel like you have, like you picked a lane, so to speak, right? Like people know when they go to you what to expect. Yeah. Right? Same with you, Emily. Like they know what to get when they know what they're going to get when they come to you. So you're very deliberate. Same thing. I want to provide value. And yeah, Max, maybe I go to his Instagram. I'm like, I want to eat broccoli now. I want a celery. All right. His face in the steak. I'm like, okay, I'll eat that.

I'll do that. I love that. It was very specific. Or meat, whatever it was. Grass-fed. And broccoli sprouts. And broccoli sprouts. Yeah, broccoli. Broccoli too, yes. All the things. No, I love when you're pivoting. All the things. Yeah, it was good, Max. It was good. So for me, yeah, very specific. I want people to...

But it's been a lot, you know, a lot of road to figure out what works. And, like, for a while I didn't like if I posted a picture of me. Like, everyone's like, pictures of you do great. I'm like, yeah, but that's not about me. And, like, that was early, you know, a few years ago. I was like, I really want people. That was a separate thing. It's like I really didn't want it to be about me per se. It was like I, even though it's such a dumb play in the title, I think that if it could help people listening to my voice and the podcast and all that, but if you're, like, thinking about social media, it's like,

I definitely want every post to educational, every podcast. I want people to take something away from it and to be able to learn action items. Actionable. Yeah. And same with you. So like Darren, you kind of went from being the super food hunter to then like having like a major show on Netflix and now this new, can I talk about the new show?

No? No. Well, there is a new show. We just can't talk about it. Oh, okay. Well, okay. We can't give any details. Any information. Okay. Well, it's going to be huge, okay? I'm telling you now. But you really made, like, and you got into all this other stuff. Like, how did you go so deep into the weeds with, like, this new book coming out and all of that stuff? You became, like, very much, like, the spokesman for things that are,

Or you can talk. Helpful, yeah. Harmful. Harmful and helpful. So this second book is called Fatal Conveniences. We're all holding one of them right now, and that's the phone. So they're so great. They're so convenient. But they all have a little rub.

You put that up to your head, the electromagnetic fields, which, by the way, in the fine print, I'm not going to go too much into this. Get comfortable. The fine print says it should not be closer than nine inches to your body, and everyone's got it in their...

bras or their pockets. And it's very clear, and then I'll just leave it. It's very clear that it turns on reactive oxygen species. So it's a free radical igniter. It suppresses the immune system. And it creates a whole lot of response and of neutering in the reproductive system.

So it's a really bad thing. And again, so there's things. So the whole book is not about just to poo-poo everything. Just believe me. So why I got into that was, again, there's like safe sleep, right? There's things you can do for it. But my father suffered from,

He was part of the Naval Academy or the Naval Fleet in the Cuban Missile Crisis and he worked on atomic bombs and he got exposed to a lot of radiation.

his immune system was shot. So by the time I could realize, like he was taking thyroid medication and then in the 90s, he developed chemical sensitivity. So his immune system couldn't deal with normal stuff like deodorants and shampoos. And so I was in college. So he's sending me these care packages. Hey, you're coming home this weekend. You need to shower with this. You need to put this deodorant on. And I was like, what the fuck is this?

fuck is this in his head? Like, and so he was a professor. So he was very, you know, making VHS tapes, trying to educate his whole world around him. And then the more I realized, I started looking into it. So it, it affected me then. So the book is dedicated to him.

And I just kept pulling those strings. And the thing is, it's all out in the open. I'm not making this up. It's like cosmetics and personal care items. There is... AirPods, like you were talking about your phone, right? Yeah, the Bluetooth. You would never wear... Never, ever. And this guy is like... He practices what he preaches. He's not just saying it from like...

It is 100%. You live and breathe everything that you talk about. Yeah, but the thing is it's not to be overwhelmed. There's always a better solution. What is a better solution? I think the AirPods on the phone because everyone here uses it. Yeah, never, ever put your phone up to your head.

How about the AirPods, though? So while there's Bluetooth, I would never put those in your ear canals and just sit there. Right. Because that's just a lower voltage of the same frequency of the cell phone. Right? Right. And it already shows that it's dangerous. Yeah.

So you can use air tubes for your, you can plug it back in. So I was like, hashtag plug everything back in. Everything, so like the ones that I would, yeah. Just plug everything back in. And just, if you use a speakerphone, if you're alone, just use a speakerphone and don't. So there's always a solution for this stuff. Can you give us one other one that's very... Dental floss.

Really? Yeah. So dental floss, that damn stuff that's so slippery and it fits between the teeth really well, the thin film. And it's like, so that shit is PFAS. So the grandfather of PFAS is Teflon.

So DuPont made that so it slips in between your teeth and it is a proven carcinogenic. Really? To your kidney. All dentifloss? Is there other good organic dentifloss? Wax. Is it the wax one you're talking about? I mean, you can, you know, you can bamboo and charcoal and wax and you can get, do your due diligence on that stuff. But any of that shit that's like, again, it's a hell of a convenience, right? Yeah. It doesn't, you know, mess up your teeth.

your, your, your gums and everything else. But like for me, I use a regular one. I just wet it.

And I'm like, yeah, that's good. A regular one? What do you mean a regular one? Yeah, so a nice clean one that doesn't have that PFAS on it. I just wet it first and then it slips in between the teeth. And it's good? It's just a dry floss. Yeah, it's just a dry floss. That was so creepy. And then you look at it. You should see her face. I feel like I'd rather get the kidney cancer. Oh, my God. She's like, yeah.

Okay, so give us one other one, one more. That's why I think this book is going to be so massive because I think everyone is fascinated by it. The good news is there's just great products that you can replace this stuff with. Give us one more. Your book can't just be two. Well, clothing. Clothing. Most of it is synthetic fiber and petroleum, so you're wearing oil, right? Glydehydes. Glydehydes.

So formaldehydes, phthalates are all endocrine disruptors. So if you look at all of this stuff, they're doing three major things. Again, they're neutering you. Again, you got to think about your children. Okay, like here's another one that I would say never put throwaway diapers on a child, ever, because that's around their private parts forever.

And it's very clear that it's affecting their hormonal system immediately. Plus, the big rub is 200 known chemicals, most of which are carcinogenic, are already in the umbilical cord of every mother giving birth today in the United States. Really? So all of this stuff

from the paints to the carpets to the sprays that make the room smell good, all of this stuff is absolutely gnarly. So my point to this whole thing is you may not feel your suffering, but you're suffering. You're in it, your body's being exposed to it, and over time, you're like, why do I have a headache?

Why do I not have the energy? Where is my testosterone, right? You go to these bio-ac conferences, everyone's talking about testosterone. They're running around with freaking weird-ass clothes and tight clothes and Bluetooth and monitoring devices. I'm like going, oh, my God. And then they're like, yeah, I just got my testosterone checked. I'm like, oh, my God, you guys are crazy. So I think...

It's an elephant in the room in our society. It's an elephant in the room in our, you know, listen, 2.7% of the United States are deemed healthy by the male clinic. 2.7% of all people are actually deemed healthy

So we are sprinting towards our own demise. These things, the point to this whole thing is to expose these systems that we have in place that we're apathetic towards. I want to just shake you a little bit to go like, oh, I can still floss my teeth. I just don't need to put chemicals in my mouth and be absorbed by my body or my children and also toothpaste, right? Okay. Yeah.

Kids and toothpaste and fluorides and like... So what do you use instead of... So what kind of toothpaste? I use this stuff called Bite Toothpaste, which is great. It's just little pellets and it's clean. And I know that he doesn't like... Honestly, he's super particular with every single...

company he works with because I work with him and he won't work with anybody and it's it's it's serious well it's serious that like you're very serious and it's just a little it's just over time yeah right you just do this over time so you don't get overwhelmed with you just take one step at a time and you're boldly putting it out there to the to the world sucks with the creative stuff like this you have no idea I'm like and I'm talking to the publisher going you sure you want that title

You sure you want fatal convenience? Yeah, we love it. You sure? I don't know if anyone's going to want to look at this stuff. What do you mean? Everyone loves that stuff. But that's the thing. Anything creative, even the TV shows that come out, you're going, fuck, they edited that out. This show is going to suck. Like,

Like, I said all this stuff. They cut all that out. And you're like, I don't know. Do they cut it out because they don't want to kind of cause like a kaput? It's a million reasons. You have no idea. And so it's like with any book. You put it out there and you just go, okay, I just got to keep going. Yeah.

I just get put it out and I guess got to keep going and just take it however it goes. And that's life, man. It's like, you know, anything happens in life. It's like have have the conversation with your partner about sex. But sucks. Like have those radical, honest conversations. That's bold, right?

Everyone's avoiding direct eye communication conversations. It's a plague. That's the freaking pandemic, right? We need to interact, look at each other, be honest and open and caring, but honest, truly, right? So we can have real conversations. That's what I love about you. You're like, there's no bullshit, right?

Right? It's just, that's Jennifer. And then she creates a space because she, again, going back to her book, she is this book. And I don't care if you feel you're successful or know what you want to do, you're going to gain and garner something from this book. Just like Emily, right? You go through this thing going, oh my God, I totally failed today. Right? Or on any moment, right? Where I'm like, oh, I don't want to do that. And I'm like,

Do it. Right? Yep. And it's a practice, too. What I loved is how real you are, too, though I thought in your book, because I did, you're having the Mark Wahlberg thing. You're like, you saw him somewhere and you're like, I could have gone up there and been bold. I still think about that. Rejection over regret. I mean, I'd rather be rejected than regret. Yeah. You don't want to be like, what else am I going to do? What's the worst that can happen? What's the worst that can happen? And the worst thing that happens, and then I was also reading somewhere that some study about most people, maybe it was in your book.

Then most people, like they do, like you said, when you regret the shots you don't take, I guess that's part of it. But like we, people in their deathbed are literally saying like, I just regret that I didn't, that I didn't do these things, not what they did. They're like, I can't believe I made that

that phone call and asked for that, whatever it is, that raise or that person to call me or that person to talk to me or I made that move. It's more about like beating yourself up for not doing things. Right. She's referring to something that, yeah, thank you. Because she's referring to this thing I always talk about, rejection over versus regret. And I always rather be rejected versus having regret because rejection, you feel it and it hurts, but then it kind of fades away after a while and

Regret, that lives with you all the time. And so I always pick rejection over regret any time. And rejection you can learn from. And you can learn from. And also a lot of times with that rejection comes another thing that you never even knew existed by just, you know. But you don't know that at the time, but it shows itself later on down the road. And you realize how often you keep yourself safe because you don't want to feel rejection anymore.

But then you realize the more you do it, like really, what is the worst? So you got rejected. Exactly. You ask them. What's the worst that could happen? And that is the muscle. Have you ever been rejected, Max? Never. Yeah. No. A bajillion times, yeah. I'm actually in the process right now of... Of being rejected? Of being rejected. See you, Max. Bye.

No, all the time. I mean, that's part of the reason why I decided to build my own empire, so to speak, because I came through the Hollywood system. And then when my job ran its course, the Al Gore network thing, and I tried to...

that job into a career, I found myself like being thrown against brick walls over and over and over again. I signed with like a major agency and it ended up not working out. Like none of the jobs that they put me up for was I, was I booking? They ended up dropping me. It was like a, yeah, it was like a, it was actually like that, that saying, like when life falls apart, that moment for me, there was a, there was a year where like my agent dropped me. I wasn't making any money. I,

I felt like I had deferred, you know, like my young adult, like the young adult, like what am I doing with my life thing? Because I had that job, but I wasn't able to transition it to a career. And then my mom got sick. So for me, I mean, that was like the lowest of the low that I've ever experienced in my life. I mean, it was a pretty dark time. But from that, you know, like, I mean, that's the beautiful thing about hitting rock bottom. You can only go up from there, right? That's true. So, yeah.

So, yeah, so that was it. And even right now, like, I mean, with all the things that I've... This is rock bottom for you? No, now it's not rock bottom. I'm very grateful. But I'm still getting rejected. Like, I, you know, I'm a...

One of the projects that I'm working on that I'm really excited about is a documentary that I've been working on for eight years. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it's been this labor of love, lots of rejection over the course of eight years to get it done, and a major pain project. I did a Kickstarter campaign for it.

eight years ago and the backers are like, when's this film coming out? Did you just take all the money and use it to fund your lifestyle? You fraud. Oh my God. Like a very small, tiny, tiny, tiny proportion of the 1,800 people that contributed to it

are like really evil. And these people contributed like the least. Of course, always that way. It's like a $5 donor to the Kickstarter campaign eight years ago. They're like, you're really, really terrible. And those are the kinds of comments that I have to like. Oh my gosh. But it's fine, it's fine. I've got this amazing project. I'm super, super excited about it. You can take $5. I'll give you $5 for the Kickstarter. I can't even refund them because half of their credit cards are like not active anymore. Seriously? Yeah, yeah.

You can, like in the Kickstarter thing, you can go and refund backers, but only if their credit cards are active. Otherwise, you have to reach out to them, which I don't want to do. Right. But we're now in the process of, but it's fine. We've got this amazing film after eight years, and we're in the process of submitting it to film festivals. Nice. It's my hope to, yeah. Oh, that's so good. Yeah. Oh.

Thank you. But like, you know, not every film festival is going to like accept it. No, it's okay. It's just a... Can you go back on Joe Rogan and talk about it? Maybe. He was on Joe Rogan. We're very proud of Max. And it was one of the most shared episodes. I saw that. I was so proud of you. Thank you. Yeah, no, you're welcome. That's a big one. Yeah, it's very big. And also because, you

you're very articulate and you're very good at getting some message that can be complicated out to the layman's person. And so that's why I think I love your information and your content and you. Thank you. You're so sweet. I'm obsessed with health and nutrition. And I come at it from a place of

I think authenticity because it really is motivated by the fact that my mom was sick and I aspire to not suffer the same fate that my mom suffered. If I'm able to have any impact on others that I care about and the world at large, that to me would be a dream. For me, it really is about understanding as much as I possibly can and then sharing that information out with people. I found this interesting...

zone for myself where I'm doing all the things that I feel like I'm meant to do. - And you're so good at it. - Thanks, but it's taken, I get a lot of, well I was gonna ask the panel, how do you deal with naysayers? 'Cause for me, the bigger you get in any area, you get hate.

And it's, I think, important to remember that there are freaking people that hate Disney World. There are people that hate pizza. You know, like, there are going to be haters. Right? As long as you're doing anything of note, like, there is going to be haters. So, yeah, I mean, even today, like, even after Rogan and everything, all the positive feedback that I get, I still get a lot of, like, I mean. Are they hating you because you're eating meat? Because I know Darren hates you because of that. No. Well, you eat meat. Yeah, occasionally. Yeah.

He's a major vegan, Darren, and Max is not. But we respect each other. But we love each other nonetheless, yeah. Exactly. But yeah, it's always interesting. How do you handle it? Because you seem like a sensitive type a little bit, you know? Like, how do you handle it? You don't like it, obviously. Well, I am sensitive, but I...

I'm able to take my ego out of it because I have what Jordan Peterson calls a noble aim. It's something larger than myself that I do this work for. And I think it's really important for you to find that, whatever that happens to be. That's like a really important part of the puzzle. I like that.

Is there any, I think we've got to wrap, yeah, I've got to wrap this up. They probably want us out of here and I'm just droning on and on over here. But this has been very fun. And again, I am so appreciative to all three of you guys for coming out here and supporting this book launch. And can you guys just all quickly say how people can find you and all your stuff online?

Yeah, so I'm Max Lugavere. I'm very active on Instagram, and I have a podcast called The Genius Life. So if you listen to podcasts, come over. We talk about fitness and nutrition. It's great. It's in the top health in the world, like in the top five in the world all the time. So you should definitely listen. He's got great content. And the books. Oh, yeah, books. Genius Kitchen. They have a bunch of copies here. So check it out. What?

I love it. Being bold. You've got to be bold. Yeah, you've got to be bold. Go ahead, Darren. Your turn. Yeah, Darren O'Lean on all the platforms. DarrenOlean.com. The Darren O'Lean Show. Super Life. And pre-order is the fatal convenience. Already on pre-order? Already? Yeah, it comes out May 15th. Nice. Wow. I'll order a copy. Me too. Well, thank you. You're welcome.

Sex with Emily on all platforms, all social media. The podcast is Sex with Emily, sexwithemily.com. You can also pre-order my book. Already? Yeah, it's called Smart Sex.

and it's called Smart Sex: How to Uplevel Your Sex IQ and Own Your Pleasure, 'cause I've developed a whole new way of thinking about sex. It's called sexual intelligence. I release two podcasts a week. I'm heading into my 18th year. I have thousands of podcasts. If you've had a question about sex, dating, marriage, love, relationships, date, all the things,

I've got a podcast about it for sure. She sure does. If you have any questions, you can also find me, DM me on all the things. It's all at sexwithemily. Also, she has a really famous masterclass that she did. The platform, the masterclass platform, learn from the world's best. The world's best. I was like, how in the best did that happen? I was like, oh God, that's a lot of pressure in the bedroom. Jesus. But yeah, you can check that out too, my masterclass on sex.

That's true. A lot of other things coming soon. Check it. Right, and they both, Darren and Emily, both handed in their new book like this week. Yeah. Yeah, so that's amazing. There you go. So thank you, guys. And first, let's give it up to the bold and beautiful. Yay! Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Wow. What about you, Jen? What's your takeaway from the book? What's the one bold exercise people can do tonight? They have a workbook. What's your favorite thing in here? What's your bold thing you can do tonight? She's got bold moves. Get it? Bold moves. I do. I have a lot of bold moves. But you've got to get the book and see for yourself. There's a workbook in the book. We're not telling you. Yeah. It's basically a blueprint for people who want to be bolder in their lives. It's very actionable. It's very practical. And you can integrate it today. So pick one up if you haven't.

had a chance yet too so that's it whoo thank you thank you habits and hustle time to get it rolling stay up on the grind don't stop keep it going habits and hustle from nothing into something all out hosted by jennifer cohen visionaries tune in you can get to know them be inspired this is your moment excuses we ain't having that the habits and hustle podcast powered by habit nest

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