education, community & housing ft Cllr. Leah Whelan
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And you'd think they'd learn their lesson because you know that happened with Ballymun. They were like we'll just build a load of apartments and houses and then not think of any amenities or anything. Even public transport. Yeah that's exactly what they've done with one of the estates across from me. They just threw in everyone from everywhere, there's not even a community centre in the estate and then just expected people to get on and be grand with it while there was no

you know, initiative to bring people together. Yeah. At all, you know, and people who are like from, this is considered a disadvantaged area, you know, and especially that estate there, like there's, there's just no resources gone into it and you're looking around and you're seeing like two minutes up the road, houses going for 450 grand, you know, and it's like we need to actually,

have community-led communities rather than developer-led communities because none of these apartments around here are affordable. I was just having a look out at Curiosity the other day. The new apartment's just up there, Bar and Oaks, and two grand for studio apartments, like two and a half grand for like a one-bed apartment. Like it's just, no one can afford them. And that's why one of the slogans on my posters is young people need homes, not plane tickets because so many people are emigrating, you know, literally.

All of our friends, like in my friend group, are all over the world now, you know? And even the ones who want to come home can't come home. They're coming to other parts of Europe and...

we need to be able to like point a way forward for people that isn't living in your masghaf forever or leaving the country you know and then the people who don't have the means to do that either you know who are stuck between temporary accommodation like precarious rental properties back to temporary accommodation you know like that's no life for anyone and that's the experience of so many people like in this country you know yeah so what what do communities need

in order to thrive and like bring them together like what I the one thing that I always use now that I have a child is I always go to my local library and there's it was just something I never thought of when you have kids that it's somewhere you can go because you think oh it's quiet and you can't go there but it's actually great for kids there's like little sensory walls and they can read there so is it what other things that bring would like

make space for people to meet. Yeah, well, shout out to Tala Library, honestly. I love Tala Library. Because, like, the work that they do. I was doing one-on-one teaching with a student last year and we went to Tala Library as our base and just the amount of things there for people, for young kids, you know, different types of art projects and reading groups and, like, 3D printing, all this stuff, you know, so good to bring people together. And that's just a small example of what can be done and...

What could potentially be done. If more resources were invested into libraries. But like. Around here in this community. Like.

You walk down my estate and the kids are sitting outside the closed community centre. You know, it's just not open. Why is it not open? Well, me and Ciarán, the councillor, alongside me and the socialist party, we've both gone about this. And one of the issues is they say it's too small. But it's a functioning building, so use it, you know. It's actually terrible seeing the kids sitting outside. Imagine putting a youth worker in there that could actually work with the kids.

with their interests. Like I always used to say, there was young girls in the estate that used to knock on people's doors and walk their dogs, you know? Like imagine if you had a youth worker who could get someone from like the DSPCA in and like just do little stuff like that. Like that's like minuscule, tiny things that could be done that you're just thinking of on the spot, you know? But communities actually need, number one,

affordable housing number two a mass rollout of public housing funding into our education system because like I know from working in a school in the local community that schools are struggling it's not just theirs it's like all over the country teacher retention because people can't afford to live in the country so they're emigrating into other countries like Dubai and stuff is a big

place their teachers go yeah I have a friend who's a teacher who's going to Dubai you know and then actually the teacher unions are fighting at the moment to allow those teachers to come back home but the issue is now if they come home they start on the like the lowest pay grade even though they could have years and years of experience it's not like transferred over here like they're not eh

on the same level you know so obviously that's a deterrent for people coming home so the unions are fighting for that but that's one thing we need like fully functioning schools we need uh homes we need a health care system that isn't completely overrun you know that you're not ringing the doctors 20 times you know and finally getting through after like hours of trying like that's not what is actually needed like people deserve to have communities that are funded

that their needs can be met because when those things happen you can build on from that and people can go do other things like you know how are you meant to focus in school when you're living in a hotel or temporary accommodation you know and um yeah that's like one of the things that would obviously be fighting for you know and why what made you go into well i suppose you were working as a teacher and you probably saw firsthand what needed to be done so what made you want to run

Well, like, what made me get in... Like, I'm currently a councillor. I was co-opted in three years ago. A member of our party stood down. I was nominated by the party to go into the seat. So, like, the one thing about...

Us is like you don't go you don't join the Socialist Party to like get a job or get a career out of it like I never thought it was going to be running I never thought I'd actually be talking about politics at all you know if you had have said it to me you know when I was a teenager or whatever but obviously it was like the repeal referendum that initially got me involved in politics you know

obviously the big link between church and state in this country and the historical links of it with the Magdalene laundries and you know the abuse in like religious institutions and stuff like that and then like the connection with

just women's oppression, you know, and kind of seeing these battles as like singular battles, you know, and when you look at it in that way, I think it's like, wow, there's so much to overcome. How are we ever going to do that? But when you understand that it's like linked to a system, you know, a system that inherently, you know, is misogynistic, is racist, you know, its sole goal is to

expand its profit, you know, before the needs of people. So that was one of the things that initially got me involved because I didn't know anything about politics, you know. It was repeal that radicalised me along with so many young women around the country at the time. And it was from that that after that...

took place it was education then you know I was like reading reports in other countries that you know the more the better the comprehensive sex education was the lower the rates of abortion you know this drives me insane because I'm on parenting like parenting algorithm it's always like stop teaching kids sex

And it's like, stop sexualising children. And I'm like, that is not what's happening. And it's so frustrating to try and communicate that to people, that it's not perverted. Exactly. That's actually needed, though. It's actually giving young people the tools that are necessary to understand their bodies, to seek out help if they need help, if they're in dangerous situations, you know? Like, it's so, so important. And the way it's being skewed by, like...

Certain sections of society is like absolutely crazy. And now like I always say, I can barely get your child to write the date up in the corner of their copy. Like, do you think I'm going to be able to influence like their sexuality or their gender or how they see themselves? You know, it's just absolutely crazy that...

To see it as anything other than giving young people the tools that they need to just cope in life, you know? Not just with relationships with a partner, but relationships with friends, with families, how to communicate your emotions, like all of that stuff. You're just not taught about when it's things that you feel and go through on the daily. So it is important to explain that to young people. Especially because a lot of parents... Well, people might not have parents, but also...

a majority of parents weren't taught so they wouldn't know how to teach their kids. You know? So I think it's great if it's implemented in schools because it needs to be taught by people who know what they're doing. Exactly, you know? And also the stark reality is that like over 90% of abuse happens in the home, you know? It happens from, you know, someone that this person trusts that they love, you know? And we know from just research and stories that

people are threatened into keeping these stories, like these situations quiet because it's a family member, you know? But if you're actually told that this isn't okay, you know, the proper names of the parts of your body, like, you know, it can actually make a difference. Or if you know that something's private, because I suppose if an adult is telling you something, you just believe it to be gospel?

And you wouldn't know, actually, this is... You wouldn't have the tools to know, actually, I think this is wrong. Even if you feel like it is wrong, but you don't have anyone to encourage that. Yeah, exactly, you know? And it can really help cut across, like, the issues that we see in Ireland with gender-based violence as well for, like, young people, young boys as well, learning about how to communicate and all these things, you know? It's actually...

As we know, the patriarchy is detrimental to young boys and men as well. And if we're actually working together to break that in education or in our communities or wherever it is, then that will have an impact, like a domino effect. Yeah. And do you ever feel, though, discouraged or deflated when you're fighting your fight? Well, I feel like that... It's easy to get just...

tired the way you do any type of thing you know but i feel like this with the election campaign at the moment like you are a little bit worried when you see what what this course is taking place online you know and you think and you think that's the majority view and obviously we're seeing stuff that's just crazy out there intimidation and violence you know but then you go into communities working class communities in my area you knock on the doors and you talk to people and you're like

oh my god okay right you know people are actually genuine people listen to what you're saying people are adding to what you're saying i went and knocked in the estate beside where there's a potential refugee accommodation going to happen in talley and you know you're thinking in yourself like oh god what's going to happen here but you know we're holding our politics like true and true we're not going to drop our banner because there's no

ever where you know we're standing with an anti-immigrant or anti-refugee protest you know so we went into this state and the first door I knocked on was like oh thank god we're getting so much bullshit through our letterboxes like there's people protesting it's horrible to see they told me that a shop around the corner that's full of non-Irish workers closed down for the night because

because they're afraid for their own safety, you know? Oh, God. So people are actually seeing that this stuff is divisive and...

You have a chat with people. So that kind of gives you the moral boost that you need. That it's not all negative. That people actually are welcoming. And I know that. Like I'm from Tallaght. I've grown up here. It's a diverse community. It's always been welcoming. And it's just bringing those voices to the forefront. Rather than what we see on social media. The misinformation that we see going around. And it does give a real starting point. To create a real movement around housing. That points an alternative forward. Because any movement that...

starts off by standing on the necks of a vulnerable group isn't going to be progressive or isn't going to unite working class people in a real way, you know. The way we want to do it is

you know, to bring people together to point at the real alternative of the resources and the wealth in society. And when you have these chats on the doors, like that doesn't mean that everyone you have a positive chat with is going to get out and join the party. But you're getting your ideas out there and it's cutting across the crap that we're just seeing like constantly. So as much as not necessarily politically bogged down, you know, you go through lulls, you know, where there's nothing necessarily happening, but there's all these crises and you're like, come on. But,

In politics, we know things like that can't be rushed. Consciousness can't be rushed. It ebbs and flows. It gets to a certain point, and we've seen that happen with previous movements, like water charges and repeal and stuff. So as much as it can seem like nothing's happening, there is good conversations, and it does push it on to keep going as well. That's good. And where do you think all the vitriol is coming from? Because it does feel...

Or is it just misdirected anger? Okay, so I have lots of sadness. So, like, 100% misdirected anger, you know? People want someone to be angry at, and I think housing is such a big issue. I don't think, you know, the people leading the charge on this are necessarily concerned about housing in a real way, you know? Some of them might use that as, like, a smokescreen. But I think there is a huge, like...

This idea of the manosphere, all right? So Andrew Tate and the likes of that. Look at who's predominantly on these marches or who is predominantly engaging in the violence. It is men. And I think that there's this sense of we want to protect our women and we want to protect our community. It's a first, yeah. You know? But I think men are kind of...

Men and even young boys are trying to find their place in society. We've had rigid gender roles and the rigid gender roles are still there, but women are breaking out of them. Women are in the workforce. Women are doing the domestic duties. All of this stuff that they don't necessarily need a partner anymore. So men need to take up this other type of protective role. I see it in that in a lot of ways. But in the political side of it, completely misdirected because...

Just say they had the reality of where the refugees weren't going into those centres. Number one, they're centres that are left empty, you know, that could be used for accommodation, but, you know, they tend to burn them down so they can never be used again.

There's 160,000 empty and derelict homes in this country and there's a 10 billion surplus sitting in government accounts that we need to actually utilise and invest in housing, invest in public housing. There's enough state land to build 60,000 homes. There's point to the real wealth in society where we can get it from because where they're leading people down, they're leading them down the garden path. That's not going to get people anywhere. It's not going to win any gains for working class people.

We need to actually band together because the reality is refugees and immigrants who come into this country, who go straight into a horrible private rental sector are all being screwed over when it comes to housing. And if we actually stood together, you know, against, you know, the private housing system, against this government that allows this to happen, then we'd actually have more strength, you know, there'd be more numbers. But obviously...

divide and conquer it's the oldest trick in the book these people are unfortunately falling victim to it you know there's

There's that meme that goes around and it's like, you know, meant to be two workers and a boss sitting in the middle and the boss has a big plate of cookies. And the white worker has one... Oh, sorry, the foreigner... The foreign worker has one and the white worker has none. And the boss is saying, oh, look, that foreigner is taking all your cookies, you know? And it's that idea that, like, these people are coming in, they're taking our resources when...

there's enough resources to go around for everyone. It's like the myth of scarcity. There's not enough to go around. There is enough to go around. There's enough wealth in this society. It's in the hands of the wrong people. It's being hoarded. And...

People are getting frustrated, you know, so I don't blame people for being frustrated, but I would advise people to not fall victim to those types of ideas because that just divides us. Those people that are coming over here are, you know, are working class siblings that we need to stand up for.

shoulder to shoulder when times get tough. These people are, you know, being treated as collateral damage from their governments, you know, from the capitalist system in their country. Like, people don't ever think they're going to need to escape and flee from where they live, you know, the comforts of their home, their community. And the reality is that happens. And, you know, we come from a country of mass immigration over the years. Look at the levels of immigration that's happening with young people at the moment. Like,

There's surveys done where like seven out of ten young people are saying that they're going to emigrate between the ages of 18 and like 25, you know. We can't point fingers at people who are trying to come here for a better life when our own communities, when our own families are doing it as well. But the message here should be that we shouldn't have to leave to have a better life either, you know, and we should fight for the resources and for people to have a future here. How would you...

like how would you even tackle the misinformation because I find when I'm on the internet the hateful stuff is usually just the most that comes up for some reason but it's obviously because they have the loudest voice and maybe they're just consistently doing it but like how do you even tackle that yeah

It is hard, like, you know, because... So they'll just say random... Sorry to cut across. They'll just say random facts that aren't true. They'll just be like, this happened. Or they'll hear of a rumour and it's always an attack on a woman or a child. And it's just made up. Yeah, and like, you know, using women and children is also one of the oldest tactics in the book because people naturally care about children and care about the safety of children. So, you know, all of a sudden there's like 50 abductions happening in town and, you know, no one's reporting on them because... And you're like...

Right, you know, you're actually taken away from the stories of real abuse against women and children, you know. These people don't actually care about women and children either because, you know, we've been marching for women's rights. That's what got me involved. I've never seen any of these people at any of our local demonstrations that I've organised or that other groups have organised. But this misinformation, yeah, like I feel like as...

stupid as some of these people can be they're very smart with social media like I don't know how they've actually done it you know but it's like as you said like there's facts and figures and straight way and people can be impacted by these impacted by these ideas even if they aren't racist or you know they're going is this true I'm seeing this all the time so you know obviously it takes its toll on people but

But even when, with the shooting of George in Kensho in Blanchardstown by the Gardaí, and obviously that was absolutely insane because the Gardaí cannot be judge, jury and executioner, you know, that's just not how it goes. But straight away up online there was facts and figures that, you know, he was beating his girlfriend, that he had all these previous convictions. Like, none of it was true. And, like, if you have to sit there and make up stuff...

to prove your point then like it's not happening you know so I think what we've been doing to try to cut across the misinformation is we produce a leaflet I actually brought you one so you can have a look at it but we produced a leaflet an anti-racist leaflet saying you know and not the not refugees but the abuse of wealth and resources is like

you know, killing our future. We have facts and figures about where the real wealth is in society and we have a statement on what we're saying on the potential accommodation in Tally. And, you know, people tried to rile up before in Tally about refugee accommodation, you know, all this terrible stuff was going to happen and, like, nothing has. They're living, you know, just like any regular estate would have problems or any regular family, you know, it's not...

So it's when you're shown realities like that, you can cut across it, knocking on the doors, having conversations with people. Obviously, there's some people out there just too far gone who are never going to have the conversation with, you know, who just aren't going to listen. It goes in one ear and out the other. And unfortunately, you're not going to reach those people. The people who are slightly impacted, who are seeing these things more and more and are reaching out for information, they're the people we want to talk to. They're the people we want to, you know, give the alternative and point the way forward and say, look,

this is the fight we need to be having, this is the type of struggle we want to create around housing, not one that seeks to divide us. And, you know, horrible stuff. Like, I've seen a video of...

a severed pig's head being thrown over the gates into refugee accommodation you know what yeah and only last night there was a petrol bomb there's an investigation that there was a petrol bomb thrown into a potential refugee accommodation in Tala village which is connected to multiple businesses around the area it's actually so frustrating you know like that's not going to get anyone anywhere but I think incidents like that

is going to, it's not going to work in their favour. Like, because I don't want to go down, like, we're seeing these people, how they kind of act towards anyone who is left in any type of way, you know, quite aggressive and stuff like that. Like, I don't want to have any dealings with you, you know. What we want to do is isolate these people politically, you know. We know that there's an alternative and we know it's not the one that they're carving out for people. We know that that's going to be destructive for working class people.

It's, you know, where are they pointing out any of the... Like, nothing around these communities that are just all profit-led, you know? You're just seeing them point the fingers at people who are arriving here with the clothes on their back. Like, what are they going to give you? Nothing at all. Well, what's it like being a woman in politics? I mean, because any... When I went to the... I went to the European Parliament in Strasbourg and the majority were men coming to talk and they were kind of just...

It was hard to describe. It was as if they were literally not even listening to me when I was speaking. But I don't know if I was being paranoid and I was like, it's because I'm a woman or I was actually just saying something stupid. No, definitely not saying something stupid. Like, so don't think that like, you know, I think it's obviously the environment that was set there that like made you feel that way. But it is a reality that the majority of representatives in this country and even like internationally are men, are old men, are old white men, you know. Yeah. And,

There's nothing wrong with all white men. Shout out to all white men. But... It's the politics that they represent for... Most of the time. That are... You know... Not in touch... With regular people. Like... As a woman you know... It is important. Like it's an... And it's good to be a young woman. Like in the council. And hopefully get re-elected. To... Raise the voice of what young people are saying. You know? Because...

It's not just about like You know being Young and being a feminist It's about the politics That I'm putting forward Because like There's Fianna Fáil There's Fianna Gael in there They're not putting The type of politics Or the feminism forward That I would agree with You know Like I'm not for this like Bourgeois type of feminism That you know

That has me like fighting for a seat at the table. Like I want to smash that table. You know, like we should completely recreate who gets to sit at that. And it should be more reflective of what the community actually looks like. So this bourgeois feminism that's like, you know... The girl boss. Yeah, women CEO, girl boss. Yeah, CEO. Yeah, CEO, you know. And it's like, that's not doing anything for the majority of women, you know. It's like...

Just following in the footsteps Of what men have been doing With a pink ribbon on it Or something you know So I like I feel like I would bring a different level of Feminism to the council than the other Than some of the other councils Like for instance there is like a women's caucus And you know

It's no hate to them. Obviously, that's what they want to do. But I'm not going to sit on a woman's caucus that's like Fianna Fáil, Fianna Gael and not get my point across or do anything. We need more than women's coffee mornings. We need women's health care to be funded. We need domestic refuges to be funded. We need housing that single parents can afford. We need childcare. These are the real important issues. So...

like as much as like the council is important like while we're on the topic of committees and the council I think it's important to elect socialists and have them in there like raising the demands of the community but anyone who thinks that the council or the Dáil are the avenues for change have it all wrong like it's you cannot

radically change the system from within. Oh, really? Yeah, I do not think that you can. There's perimeters that the capitalist system, that these capitalist institutions have. For instance, we have a budget every year that we have to vote on in the council. Me and Ciarán are the only ones that don't vote for it. Maybe a PPP, they don't vote for it either. I'm not 100% sure on that, but we don't vote for it. And then throughout the whole term, you have the same councillors that voted for it,

coming in and complaining that they can't do certain things and we're like because you voted that budget through and that's what the budget permits and doesn't permit you know and that came down from your government so the things we want to do we can't like in a way

the council can be like a glorified debating committee you know i'm sitting there going i want to work in class revolution but we're arguing about where we're going to plant the trees you know yeah yeah yeah that type of stuff and of course we have to take up those community things i'm not diminishing those like planning stuff those planning things but anyone who thinks any change as i said it's going to come from those institutions has it wrong look at the changes that we've had in society repeal

The government were dragged kicking and screaming to repeal. You know, if you look back at any of the government interviews, they said, I went on a personal journey and I've changed my opinion. You went on a what? Like, what are you actually on about? What are you on about? Like, it's...

Insane. And then had the neck to stand at the front of the march when we passed repeal in this country. They were forced by their voting base. That's what they realised was going to actually happen. Like, there was a whole radicalisation of young women in this country. It's what, like, radicalised so many people that...

I talk to now that are members of my party as well, like even talk about water charges, you know, the government were bringing that in. They were going to charge you for your water. These communities came out and said, that's not going to happen. 150,000 people out marching on the streets, like the biggest marches that we've ever seen.

striking like you know taking real action and we won that battle you know after they tried to lock up 10 people from my community for protesting you know really yeah kieran and my party like if you look up um the job sound trials they tried to lock them up for blocking john burton's car and they were obviously acquitted and but they were going to be sentenced to a heavy sentence like you know but that was people communities coming together on the ground grass grassroots work

organising in a real way against the government and coming together and they won that as well. You know, any changes isn't going to come from asking the very government that has taken away those things that are blocking those rights, you know. Going to the government, oh pretty please will you sort out housing when they're in cahoots with the big developers and the vulture funds, you know. They rely on the private market and they say that the private market will sort out housing. It has not sorted out housing. People are

in absolute dire homeless situations. Children stuck in hotel rooms, children with additional needs. The emails that you get as a public representative with some of the casework, it breaks your heart that people are going through this in the community. And then you have them going, "Oh, well, we're the richest country in Europe. It's great, isn't it? We're doing so good."

we're the richest country in europe and people are actually living in squalor like you know there's people living in tents around this community as well like it's it's just absolutely insane to to to see that so the real change needs to come from below the government aren't going to hand it to us we need to actually fight for it and pressure them for it and even not to keep rambling but

Even what happened today with Ireland recognizing Palestine, the state of Palestine, obviously a little too late in my eyes as well. Activists have been calling for this for years, but

It's a good thing because this is like a demand of the movement, you know, the Palestinian solidarity movement that's been taking place in Ireland for the past couple of months now have demanded not only this, you know, obviously a ceasefire and expulsion of the Israeli ambassador, but to recognise Palestine as a state and...

That's how, that's why they have done this, you know, from pressure from below. And we've seen even with the ideas around expelling the Israeli ambassador, not just the government parties, Sinn Féin were forced into changing their position on that because their membership and their supporters and just activists on the street and Palestinians said,

this is what we actually call for. So they were forced to change their position on that. So it shows what can actually do when there is pressure from below. But to think that someone's just going to come in and just be able to go, right, we'll sort out all the issues. Or like any of the governments are going to come in and say, we'll sort out all the issues.

they're not going to do that like willingly you know we need to force them into doing it so Jesus because I was talking to Grace O'Sullivan the Green Party MEP and she was just originally an activist you know she was on the Rainbow Explorer when it blew up and um

She was just like, it's so discouraging because there's literally climate change deniers in the EU. So it's like, how can you get anywhere? If there's people literally going, well, that doesn't exist. Because you have to agree. I suppose it's great that we have a democracy because then decisions are being made for us, I suppose. But even at that, it's like nothing ever changes because of it. It's funny that you say that because obviously...

not a fascist or a dictator of America but things like that are happening in America you know like you know the bodily autonomy issues and stuff like that like exactly what you're saying like going into these institutions and you're just up against a majority who have the you know overpowering these institutions as well who aren't like listening to you you know who actually are being you know a lot of the times like they have like

what's the word, like funding from these like businesses and stuff as well. So they're going to go in and say that the climate is grand, you know, and that there's nothing going on, that we shouldn't be protesting about this because they're in cahoots with them as well. You know, that's not conspiracy. That's actually, you know, fact we know, like that these campaigns get funds from big business to do this. And like, that's one thing in the socialist party, like we don't take any funding from any businesses. Like we're completely, like,

you know relying on the funding from like donations from the community and then from like our members as well but like you were saying there like about a democracy and like yeah fair enough like on paper but like

When you think about the amount of people that don't vote, like so in Talisout there's a 26% turnout rate in the last elections. I actually had a look at the vote count today, the number of people, just over 6,000 people in Talisout that came out to vote, you know, very low. Why do you think that is? Well, there's huge levels of alienation in this community and it's no wonder why people are looking around at issues that just aren't being solved.

the housing crisis, obviously, is the main one, the cost of living crisis, insecure jobs, you know, or unsecure jobs that, like, aren't paying a living wage. And then people are just looking at these issues and going, well, no one's doing anything, and this idea that, like, everyone is all the same. When, you know, I don't agree with that either, because...

But that is what people are used to, you know. They're used to people knocking on their door saying, oh, I'm going to do X, Y, Z for you. And they don't do X, Y, Z.

That's why I'll never tell someone I'm going to, oh, I promise you it'll get far. I promise you this. Because you can't make those promises, you know. I promise that I'll, like, stand in solidarity with you and we can fight this struggle together, you know. I promise that I'll represent you in a real way. But people are let down by those things. So then what falls to it is a personality contest in a lot of ways, you know. I actually saw a TikTok yesterday saying,

I vote for the most... The best looking... As my top... And then go down... Yeah... You know... And I was going... Oh no... Yeah... So like... You know... You can often hear from people... Oh well... Didn't they get... That bush up the road cut... Or... Didn't they get the field sorted out first... When... No like... It was... Workers that came out and done that... You know... If you want to get... Get real about it... But...

people kind of end up falling back on those things and it does come from a lack of information like you know people don't really know who their counsellors are you know and wouldn't be necessarily offended if people didn't know you know you're knocking on their doors and they don't they don't know who you are because people aren't engaged as they should be and it does come down to education as well like if people are actually taught and I've said this before if people are actually taught the role that working class communities have played and changed then

I feel like people would be more switched on to the role that they could play in the future like history even in school you know it's this idea of the one figure this one powerful figure that created a change nothing about the movement behind them you know and that's what's actually put the pressure on to create that change whether it was around you know like the black civil rights movement or women's rights like any of these things there was big movements behind them and

And people aren't aware of that. Like, you know, I teach CSPE as well. So I'm very adamant on, you know, teaching the kids who are my local TDs, who are my local counsellors, you know, what does all this mean? Because...

People just don't have the education. And when it comes to it, it's like I voted and I voted and I voted and I'm not going to this year because anytime I voted, nothing has happened. And that's when it falls back to the point that I was saying earlier, that's because the change doesn't happen through the council. You know, any change has happened. Feet on the street, you know, people getting organised.

Those aren't the avenues for change. There's boundaries and restrictions within the council. It drives me crazy. Like, I walked out at the last budget meeting because I was just like, aren't we saying it's not being heard, you know? And that's when you have to... That's when you get bummed down, you know? When you get too into the mindset of these structures and you have to take yourself out of it and go, right, my politics is actually completely separate from that, you know? It's completely different from the council. And...

That's what we need to remind people as well when we're on the doors, you know, that our politics needs to be completely different. We need to reimagine it because, again, as we said earlier, it's typically older, white representatives dominated by men as well. But if we're saying to people, no, like, our, like, political...

Our politics should be reflective of how the community looks. It should be representative of young women, of the travelling community, of black and brown people, you know, of people of different nationalities that are living in the community. Like, that's so important. And I think if people seeing...

Those types of representatives, if they've seen people actually not just using the council to go in and put a motion in and talk for five minutes, but if they were using their positions to get into the communities, go, right, you're being fucked over, you're being fucked over, let's come together and actually mobilise on this, then people might have more of an interest in getting involved. They will see that they are part of the struggle. Because one of the things is that people often say to me, it's like...

it's deadly what you do you know it's unreal I support it and all and it's like yeah but I actually need you to do this with me like I'm not going to be able to get any change on my own me and the people in the socialist party aren't going to be able to just do it on our own we need working class people to be on board like we've seen in the past but for that to

you know, be transformative until we get the demand, until we get our needs met. Okay. And because my introduction to politics would have been repeal, probably similar to you. And I think what the difference is between, say, me and like, I'm looking at my younger sister who's not really interested at all. It's almost as if we saw the impact that it can have and we got like the result that we wanted from repeal. And there hasn't been anything like an immediate sort of like,

The delayed gratification I suppose Or the power of protests And voting So do you think that's why maybe younger people Aren't voting because there hasn't been Anything where they feel involved in Or passionate enough about I know what you mean that we were all kind of Politically aware because repeal happened And then there was like I'm pretty sure a general election Then like two years later so we were all kind of You know interested in these Things and keeping up with these things And there is a law like you know

Obviously, that's not to diminish the Palestinian protests. That's absolutely amazing and significant that so many people are turning out for international solidarity. I think that's a clear indication of how we can cut across the racism in this country as well. But yeah, we did have some things like the Black Lives Matter movement that happened in Ireland. That was significant. There was like 6,000 people out with one day's notice saying,

like led by young people and

there was a movement around climate as well but young people so it's not that it hasn't been in their periphery but the idea of as you said a successful maybe movement that there's still gowns to be made on repeal but we got the demands that we were fighting for and you could see it in a real way and that was their experience of it but people who are a bit younger impacted by COVID as well and that type of ideas but

I think there is a level of young people. They're seeing now what's happening in the community and the rise of the far right is one of the things that people are reaching out to us that they want to get involved because they're seeing this. They might come from an immigrant background themselves. One of their parents could be from somewhere. So they've seen the impact it's had on their family, the impact it's having on the community. So they want to get active. So while the voter level is low, I don't think it always reflects to people

People actually want to change. You know. People do want change. Like. But it's just. We've given up with this system. And that's why I think it's important for us. As socialists.

to say that isn't the only route for change. In fact, it's probably the least route for change, you know? The real avenue is what I keep saying, repeating myself, is people coming together in the United Working Class Movement to fight for those things. So to actually come out and protest rather than vote? Yeah, and not even just protest, you know? Because I feel like that's, you know, where some people say, oh, the left, they just protest. And it's like, no, like, being active in your trade unions. Like, look at the Debenhams workers, for instance, and...

how they actually forced their trade union into representing them, you know, obviously they had been in a trade union but they didn't step forward in a real way, the workers did before the union came out and supported them and they forced that union into doing that and that's something that can be done, you know, in your communities, in your schools, like, getting, obviously, getting people out to protests and demos is important but, like,

creating a fight back like you know there's so many people in this community that don't like the racism that we're seeing that want to come together to challenge that how do we get out we get community like like leaflets together that cut across the misinformation you know have community meetings that bring people together to say right what are we actually going to do on this issue because that's what we're missing you know we say there's democracy but

And in a liberal sense, yeah, you know, you get to vote every four years. Yuppie. We don't have TDs or counters that are subject to recall. Meaning if you go in on a platform to say the Green Party, for instance, have previously and repeatedly campaigned against the Canadian and European trade agreements, see it.

And then they went into government, Fianna Fáil and Fianna Gael, and just forgot about that, you know? And this is that Canadian companies can sue Ireland if there's a cut in their, like, profits due to, like, climate measures and stuff like that, you know? So they were really active on this, and then went into government and just completely, like, dropped their banner, you know? So...

like is that democracy because people vote them in on a certain basis and what have they really done for the climate other than instill a few cycle lanes like you know i'm on put you know pushing carbon taxes on people which is completely a regressive tax that isn't going to elevate any of the climate catastrophe that's ahead of us you know um if we actually had that that'd be more of a democracy you know you said that you were going to go in and

fight on social housing but you're often selling off our public land and you know you're cutting across this movement that's fighting for housing or you're arguing against this movement that's not what we voted you in on you know the real type of democracy would be like you know workers committees community committees coming together and actually making demands because

I'm sorry, someone sitting in the doll from like Fox Rock or these places, they have no idea what the community in Tallow needs, you know. It's our voices that need to be heard on a national level. And the only way that that's actually been able to be done is through protest, is through striking, is through making them listen to our voices, you know. So I think that element is important. And that although we have,

this liberal sense of democracy it needs to be more than that and like even look at the government now like Simon Harris is just thrown into

the Taoiseach position, you know? Like, no one voted for that. I know that's not how it works, but no one voted for that. And I think people seem to forget that the last general election was triggered after a motion of no confidence. I'm pretty sure the second motion of no confidence in Simon Harris due to how he was handling the health system. Like, the nurses went on strike for the first time in, like, over a decade under Simon Harris.

you know like how was that a democracy like if you were to ask any of those workers that were striking in that time anyone who had to deal with the health system during covid anyone who was a patient at that time they'll tell you you know that the health system wasn't even prepared for that you know what he was it was him and then um stephen donnelly but the health system was in tatters before that and now to see that he's in like the highest position you can be in government

That is not what people voted for. You know, people are sick of Fianna Fáil and Fianna Gael. Even Leo Vardekar didn't get in until whatever round as someone who was meant to be the leader of the country. You know, that's a clear indication that people do want change. And I think it's about what type of change do people want, you know, because...

There is elements of, you know, people wanting a Sinn Féin government. But they've come out and said, we're not attracted to big business. You know? They're campaigning for...

lower retirement age here while campaigning for a higher one in the north of Ireland you know they funny enough it was I actually tried to reach out to them when I was first politically active on repeal I didn't know that they didn't change their party stance on repeal until after the vote went through you know standing there with signs saying the north is next and there's abortion groups in the north that say none of these representatives are doing anything for us or anything for pregnant people you know so

What kind of government do people want? What type of representatives do people want? What do they want their communities and futures to look like is what people should be thinking about when they're thinking about voting in the local elections and the general elections that will be taking place next year. You know, it shouldn't be a popularity vote. Look at the policies that people are putting forward. Look at the policies those people are putting forward on the council level as well because I always say, look at the council level. It exposes, you know, these people, like these...

these parties and what they're doing and their pro-profit policies but that's what people should really be thinking of and obviously there is an issue with where do you go and get your information when it comes to locals when it comes to Europeans and you're getting all this shite through your letterbox that you're just throwing to the bin you know and

So that is another issue. People are going, I want this information. Where do I get it? Like, there's no one dedicated kind of, you know, system that you go on and you can get a good look at everyone. You do have to kind of go and get those things for yourself unless you're engaging with people at the doors. But that is the most important thing that the type of future we fight for, the type of democracy that we fight for is inclusive of all. It isn't people at the top, you know, making decisions. It's, you know...

it's the people who have a direct role, who are already running society, by the way, you know? And I said this on a podcast last week, that not a life switch gets turned on without the role of a worker, like in a workplace, in anything, in a factory, all of these things cannot be done without the working class's input, you know? And once working class people start to realise the power of, you know, their labour and in turn withdrawing their labour,

then that can be transformative you know hit them where it hurts that we've seen people take real direct action on you know education rights on women's rights and that has been even like you know anti-apartheid with the dunstrikers in ireland you know taking a principal stance on these things can go can go a long way so i think that's important yeah