cover of episode What Does Regime Change in Syria Change?

What Does Regime Change in Syria Change?

2024/12/20
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Foreign Podicy

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C
Cliff May
J
Jonathan Schanzer
M
Michael Doran
R
Reuel Marc Gerecht
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Cliff May: 阿萨德政权的垮台是件好事,但这并不意味着推翻他的势力是良善的。HTS等组织的崛起对地区稳定构成威胁,而阿萨德政权的垮台也改变了地区大国之间的力量平衡,削弱了伊朗和俄罗斯,增强了土耳其。以色列虽然摆脱了一个来自德黑兰的恐怖主义代理人,但也面临着新的逊尼派阿拉伯恐怖主义威胁。 Michael Doran: 阿萨德政权的垮台是多重因素共同作用的结果,包括以色列对伊朗及其盟友的打击,叙利亚军队士气低落以及伊朗对叙利亚政权的实际控制。伊朗并未有意削弱阿萨德政权,而是由于持续的战斗和阿拉维派人口的稀少,最终导致政权垮台。以色列自2014年以来持续打击伊朗在叙利亚的军事目标,也为阿萨德政权的垮台做出了贡献。 Reuel Marc Gerecht: 阿萨德政权的垮台是内战长期持续以及伊朗撤回支持的结果。阿拉维派人口的稀少使得他们在没有伊朗支持的情况下无法维持政权。叙利亚的历史背景,包括奥斯曼帝国统治、赛克斯-皮科协定以及阿拉维派少数民族政权的建立,都对叙利亚局势产生了深远的影响。奥巴马政府未能支持叙利亚的世俗民主团体,错失良机。卡塔尔主要通过资金支持影响叙利亚局势。土耳其和以色列在打击叙利亚境内的什叶派势力方面利益一致,尽管在其他问题上存在分歧。 Jonathan Schanzer: 对朱拉尼及其组织HTS的言行应持谨慎态度,需进一步观察其真实意图。朱拉尼目前高度依赖土耳其,短期内不太可能摆脱土耳其的影响。以色列从阿萨德政权垮台获益,但同时也面临着新的挑战,因为他们十年来没有关注逊尼派圣战主义。将HTS政权正常化可能会向其他穆斯林世界发出错误信号。土耳其过去对伊朗的纵容行为与土耳其和以色列利益重合的说法相矛盾。 Cliff May: 叙利亚政权更迭后,地区格局发生变化,对各方都有影响。美国应该通过盟友来影响叙利亚局势,而不是直接干预。 Michael Doran: 土耳其和以色列的利益在叙利亚问题上高度重合,美国应该利用这一点,最大限度地减少摩擦。 Reuel Marc Gerecht: 土耳其的官方政策是希望叙利亚统一,并遣返难民。土耳其存在奥斯曼帝国情结,但这并不意味着土耳其会试图恢复奥斯曼帝国的统治。 Jonathan Schanzer: 土耳其在过去对伊朗的纵容行为与土耳其和以色列利益重合的说法相矛盾。美国应该谨慎对待叙利亚局势,避免支持可能威胁地区稳定的势力。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why was the overthrow of Bashar al-Assad considered a positive development?

The overthrow of Bashar al-Assad, a longtime dictator accused of mass murder, was seen as a positive development because it removed a brutal and oppressive leader from power.

Who is Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS), and why is it significant in the Syrian conflict?

Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS) is a major rebel group in Syria with roots in both al-Qaeda and ISIS. Its leader, Abu Mohammad al-Jolani, is designated as a terrorist by the U.S. government. HTS played a significant role in the overthrow of Assad.

How did the fall of Assad impact Iran and Russia?

The fall of Assad weakened Iran's Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei and Russian President Vladimir Putin, both of whom had backed Assad and benefited from his regime.

What role did Turkey play in the Syrian conflict, and how did it benefit from Assad's fall?

Turkey, led by President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, supported HTS and benefited from Assad's fall, as it strengthened Turkey's influence in the region.

How did Israel's actions contribute to the weakening of Assad's regime?

Israel launched over 450 airstrikes targeting Assad's military assets, including jet fighters, warships, missiles, and chemical weapons, significantly weakening his regime.

What is the significance of the Alawite sect in Syria's political history?

The Alawites, a heretical Shiite sect, make up only about 10% of Syria's population. They have historically held power in Syria, with Bashar al-Assad's father, Hafez al-Assad, ruling for 50 years. The sect's decline was tied to its reliance on Iranian support.

What challenges do Syria's Christians face in the post-Assad era?

Syria's Christian communities, which include various sects, are uncertain about their future under a new regime, particularly one led by a group like HTS with a history of authoritarian rule and restrictions on non-Muslims.

How has HTS leader Abu Mohammad al-Jolani tried to present himself differently from previous jihadist leaders?

Jolani has attempted to present himself as more moderate by allowing women to wear what they want, not interfering with Christian communities, and avoiding extreme excesses seen in groups like ISIS.

What is the potential conflict between HTS and Turkey, given their historical tensions?

There is an inherent tension between HTS, an Arab group, and Turkey, a predominantly Turkish state, due to historical Ottoman domination of Arab lands. However, HTS is currently dependent on Turkish support to maintain power.

What role did Qatar play in supporting HTS and the Syrian conflict?

Qatar has been a financial supporter of HTS and other rebel groups in Syria, providing funding that has likely been used to purchase military hardware and other resources.

How did Israel view the fall of Assad, and what were its strategic gains?

Israel viewed Assad's fall as a strategic gain, as it removed a key Iranian proxy from its border. Israel also destroyed much of Assad's military hardware, reducing the threat from Syria.

What is the significance of Captagon in the Syrian conflict, and how did it impact regional stability?

Captagon, a highly addictive opioid, was a major source of income for groups like Hezbollah and contributed to regional instability by fueling addiction and criminal activity across the Middle East.

What is the potential future of Syria's relationship with the Arab League?

There is a possibility that Syria could be reintegrated into the Arab League, potentially under the influence of countries like the UAE or Saudi Arabia, as a way to reduce Turkish and Islamist influence in the country.

Chapters
The overthrow of Bashar al-Assad is viewed positively, but concerns arise about the nature of the rebel group Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS), which has ties to al-Qaeda and ISIS. The fall of Assad impacts regional powers like Iran, Russia, and Turkey.
  • Overthrow of Bashar al-Assad
  • Rise of Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS)
  • HTS's ties to al-Qaeda and ISIS
  • Impact on Iran, Russia, and Turkey

Shownotes Transcript

What does regime change in Syria change?

The overthrow of longtime, mass-murdering dictator Bashar al-Assad is a good thing. But those who did the overthrowing? Not good.

The most important rebel group involved in this revolution is Hayat Tahrir al-Sham, better known as HTS. It has roots in both al Qaeda and the Islamic State (also known as ISIS). Its leader’s nom de guerre is Abu Mohammad al-Jolani. He and HTS have been officially designated as terrorists by the U.S. government.

The fall of Assad weakens Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei and Russian President Vladimir Putin. Both had backed Assad, and both had derived benefits from Assad in exchange.

And the fall of Assad strengthens Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

To discuss all of this and more, host Cliff May is joined by Jonathan Schanzer, Reuel Marc Gerecht, and Michael Doran.

NOTE: We hope you enjoy the soothing sounds of Reuel's Ring Doorbell chimes.