SUPERFLY #19 - Cults, drugs, and p$rn
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Yes, I have actually stayed at Airbnbs from time to time. And truth be told, I do really like them. I'm being totally honest right now that I've had great experiences with them. Yeah. I mean, you can have your look at you go get your own place, get your own pool, your own living room. You're not going to walk in an elevator. You're not going to see people when you're walking around in your undergarments. Yeah.

Yes. And if you don't understand what we're talking about, you should go online. What we're saying is you have a house with a kitchen and a bathroom and it's just for you, tailored for you. You liked your Airbnb over a hotel. Yes. And I do think I've had relatives stay nearby and sometimes it's very nice for them to do an Airbnb and have a little house and they're not underfoot. The last thing you want is your house guest to say, excuse me, um,

Where would I find a towel? That's a toughie when it's because they're naked. Well, it's like the 1800 time you say on the towel rack. Yeah. Thank you. I was going to look there. People don't even think hotels sometimes just go, Hey, I'll go there. I'll get an Airbnb. So, um, you won't regret it. I'm a nibbler Dana. And I think you are too, but you always know me that I just have to keep the energy going. Um,

And I think because I learned from my dad, pistachios are a good source of just, you know, nibble, wake you up. They're always delicious. I actually named a character in a movie I did called Master of Disguise. The lead character's name is pistachio. That's how much I love pistachios. Yeah. Well, wonderful pistachios have literally come out of their shells. It's the same taste. It's delicious, but...

It's a lot less work. As you know, cracking them open can be a little bit of a job. Less cracking, more snacking is what I say. That's what I say. That's what you say. And I'm going to use that when my wife goes to the store. Wonderful pistachios. No shells. Flavors come in a variety of award-winning flavors, including chili roasted. Honey roasted. Mm-hmm.

Sea salt and vinegar, smoky barbecue. Sea salt and pepper is one I like the most. And I'm going to try this jalapeno lime. They don't have a red, red necky flavor just yet. Yeah, look at him there. Red, red necky loves pistachios. I like to crack things open and put them in my mouth.

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And they don't know what's going on. They're like, are there real dinosaurs out there? Are they licking each other's asses? I mean, I mean, really, instead of Bugs Bunny and Disneyland, you've got shaving Ryan's privates. It's a war movie, but it's a little different. And don't even get me on Schindler's Fist.

Welcome to Superfly. This is David Spade and we got Dana Carvey. To all of our fans around the world. Thank you. Two people that look the same, but we really don't. But you put in the comments every day. Okay. I literally put my head in a blender. Oh yeah, your hair? I kind of like it like that. Well...

You know, I tried to do the day after hair, so I washed it last night and then and then it didn't take. It didn't take. It didn't take. It just went weird. I don't know. Anyway, whatever. We'll do a whole episode on hair at some point. We might. We're trying to get a plus collab sponsor. OK, so here's what happened. I was on the road.

I'm going back on my Southern tour, Dana, by the way, which is. So we were both on the road. Yeah. So you went, you went down to North Carolina. No, that's my next leg. Oh, but this leg was Atlanta. Water went out. They had a state of emergency. Yeah. No water. No thing. In the, in the, in the, in the city of Atlanta, no water. Yeah. They get half the city. And then I thought it was just our hotel, but then they go, you want a bottle of water? And I go.

I'll take two, one for the shower, one for the bath. And it's tough. I mean, this sounds gross. It's not. But when you go number two, the front desk said, could you beach it, you know, on the edges and then we'll fix it later. I'm glad you said number two. Beach it. If you wouldn't mind, all the guests, if you could beach your turds. You have a lot of gastrointestinal issues on the road. Gastrointestinal issues.

Okay. Well, my microphone wants to rise up like a, like a Kreskin trick. All right, here we go. I'm wearing black. So we are fucking exactly the same. All right. So I go to the mall, which is all you do on the road and usually buy nothing. You just wander. It's just to get steps. And then I go into Macy's and it's old guys there. And I'm looking for, I hate to be embarrassed, even though I talk about beaching undergarments. Okay. Yeah.

you know you were looking for underwear yeah so i say to the guy hey he can't really hear i go hey um where are the uh men's you know undergarments he goes underpants and i go nope and i see people a couple why is that a whisper meerkats because i don't want to know and then there's the underwear yeah because and he goes

Where is the underpants? Now he doesn't know. And now he's I'm like, I can say that I can yell it to the store.

But he's like looking around and I go, I, did you work here? I thought you might know something. He goes, I think underpants would be this way. So he's, I'm following him. I was like that guy from grownups and he's underpants is horrifying. So I'm like, Hey everybody. And then he gets it. He goes, there you go. And then there's like a wall, Calvin Klein, 80 feet high. So, you know, so I go, I almost need the ladder, you know, like at the library. So I go in there and I'm like,

And I pick one up and he goes, are those the underpants you like? I go, are you still here? I'm here. I got it. I got it from here. And then he's just still, and I think he takes a few steps back. And then I pick up some of those boxer kinds and he goes, oh, you like the tight ones. Hug your leg and it'll show off. I go, okay, that's enough. That's enough. And then anyway, I got some underpants and left. That's all.

I went, I went shopping for once in the South and the guy, I was similar to that guy, but whether he'd say, Oh, you want, you want some under panties? I go, no, I think you, you need some under panties. Let's go over here and find you some under panties. Oh, humiliating. I know it was so feminine. I don't know. What?

What about drawers? Well, you need some drawers. You need some boxes. You need some underpanties. But you can all go freeze on like I do. Look. Look, free ball. Feel my balls. They're like clackers in there. I don't like the free balls. It was pouring in Houston, so I was just in a room for 36 hours. I mean, it was torrential lightning storms.

So I went a little crazy. So I was just in my underpanties bouncing up and down the bed. And I was crying myself to sleep. I was this far to the TV. I was hoarding rooms. I mean, 36 hours in a regular room. Cause I don't like suites. I mean, people are very generous in these gigs.

But I don't want to get up in the middle of the night, walk a half mile or bump into a table. So I just get a little room. Yeah. I don't want a resort place where they go, oh, we'll get on a cart. We'll take you to eat. We'll get on a cart. We'll go to the pool. I go, I just want to be near things. I don't want to go out in the tundra, especially when it's pouring, pissing rain. So.

I had two flights on the way out. My seatmate was a sweet old woman with two masks on that kept to herself, never left her seat and read. That was great. The way back, everything's kind of mellow. People loading in. Guy jumps in next to me. I want to say six, eight, 300 pounds. I mean, literally just a giant person. He's got a carry on suitcase and the handle won't go down.

So he's trying to get it down. He's got these giant fists and he's hamming. I can't get it down. I don't know where he was from. I can't get it down. He starts pounding it really hard. Again, again, again. He's not pushing the little button. He's just trying to ram it in. No, he's trying that. It's literally broken. Finally, I found a guy and he came over. Oh, let's put it back there. Eight rows back. Don't worry about it. But that was just the beginning. I'm trying to relax. I've got a Coors Light. I don't like to fly. Again.

Again. Again. Stress, stress, sweating. Not good. Then he tries to jam it in. It doesn't fit. Fuck this.

It's a lot of tension. Yeah, they're like, sir, you have to check it. No one wants to check it. That's no one wants to watch you worse than death with your giant meaty fist pounding on some Samsonite luggage thing. Get a better one. I go, how old is that? He goes, it's 10 years old. You know, come on, guy. Yeah, it's time. You're in first class. Get a suitcase.

I heard Jimmy Fallon did a funny, I think you got some Biden stuff, but he did a funny joke about Biden, which isn't always the case on these talk shows. It's kind of funny that they, you know, go both ways. Oh, okay. He said, uh, he said Biden was over in France and, uh,

and talk about the olympics and he suggested some new events like the uh hundred yard wander and the uh and uh synchronized squinting that's pretty funny yeah those are good jokes it's got a q in it it's funny yeah that's a funny jokes there's some people though i just figure in the first debate at some point with trump he'll look at him and go what are you

Some kind of monster? Come on, man. You're like the creature from the Black Lagoon. It came out of the lagoon and scared all the teenagers. I play the creature from the Black Lagoon. I got out of the Navy. They said, you want to put this suit on? It's a rubber suit. So I play the creature from the Black Lagoon. It came out and scared all the teenagers. You played him? I played him. I played him in 1960, 40, 45, 55, whatever, sold.

45, 47, 48, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50,

And she can't testify against her husband. So the whole case is thrown out because of Mrs. Stormy Trump. I did it again. That's his only way out is to marry her. Her testimony be thrown out and he's free as a bird. Why is he thinking about that? That's really smart. It was a quick hit comedy bit. No, I'm saying he should think that because that's pretty good.

It's funny and it gets things done. I'm going to go out on a limb and just say these are wild times and very divisive times. That's all. All right, well, let's get to some headlines and we will. Let's headline it up. Yeah, what do we got? Anything? I will read this and I'll add my own thing. Giant venomous flying spiders may invade New York this year. Get fucked.

By the way, Dana, I don't like walking spiders. I don't like spiders just that can travel on the ground and on the walls. I definitely don't need them dive bombing me. Land sting, fly away. And they don't need to be giant. I don't like that word. Giant venomous flying spiders. Look, they have a flag behind it.

And they have an American flag behind it? Maybe it's a military weapon or something. Oh, God, that's a good idea. If you, what would you, okay, would you rather have a snake in your bed as you get in or a giant venomous flying spider? Now, listen, this is an easy no-brainer for me because... Okay, snake, spider. I am okay with snakes. My brother had...

five snakes, actually rattlesnakes in a cage in his room in the house when we were like 10 and 12. And he also had a boa that got loose in the house and he had a python that got loose in the house. So we went to bed for three weeks, not knowing where the python was, where the boa was. And my mom was like, Oh, and then we went to sell the house. I was in the living room and they were showing the house and I look up and I see it in the books and I'm like,

This might be the worst time to mention this to the new buyer, but we found one of the snakes.

And that's not a great sales. Did you close escrow? Did you sell it? Yeah, we got our 14 grand or whatever a house cost then. But I think what if Bill Gates is involved? Because didn't he make mosquitoes? I don't want those either. I don't think anyone that does this job should go into making mosquitoes. It just feels like two different businesses. So he's making – Bill Gates makes –

To help Africa with malaria or something? I think, but there... And this needs to be in the comments. Someone tell me because I've got my head on my ass. But he either made them, obviously in a positive way. Genetically engineered them maybe to... Right, to sting another mosquito and knock it out of them. Or not pass malaria, make them... Something. ...impenent in that way. Sterilize them, dry hump them... Have you ever had a snake or a boa constrictor around your neck? Yes. Yes.

Okay. You tell me your story. I'll tell you mine. Okay. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were just, oh, you have one. I was just saying it's not the place you want to be. It wasn't big enough, but go ahead with yours. Well, we'd have these giant kid birthday parties and the whole school would kind of be like 25 people.

And there was a local guy named Desert Dave. And Desert Dave would come in and you have cages. And you have cages with all these muskrats and snakes. That's my new Happy Madison movie, by the way. Desert Dave. You should play him. Yeah, Desert Dave. Super nice guy. Had the hat. Had the patter. All the kids are happy. So there's like a bow instructor who brings it out. Big fuck.

He's like, "What dad wants to put this around? Come on, his name is Billy. He'll be fine." So I'm like, "Okay." So he starts wrapping around my neck and all the kids are chanting, "Do it, do it." And then it starts to tighten just for a second. And you realize that moment, yeah, it could take you out. - It's curtains. - I say, "Desert Dave." So I had it around my neck. - And then they have to undo it, which takes a second.

Okay. Two spiders, two snakes, or three rats. Which one do you put your covers up? Get in bed with three rats, two snakes, or two spiders. I'm so scared of spiders. I just think they win any contest. Spider my shoe. I grew up with black widows, brown recluse. They're just so terrifying and they

And they really fuck you up. Like a brown Rayquiz will bite your arm and it just looks like a little dot. And you're like, I'm fine. And then your arm caves in right there.

And everyone goes, what the fuck? We got a lot of tarantulas on this place. They scare me too. Why? Because they are fucking terrifying. But I have let them walk on me against my better judgment. Yeah, I don't like this. I don't like they have two feelers. Yeah, this is kind of like this motion, but they move kind of slow. They sniff with their fingers or something. Rats are like that. And they got two things here. They go, they don't bite. I go, they might as well because-

They can jump six feet too. Oh, let me give you a morality test. Okay. You find a pincher bug in your room at night. Do you, do you squash it or do you get a little tissue paper, grab it and release it outside? Yeah. Five seconds. The answer is I let it go.

The real answer is you kill it. Real answer is I kill it in front of his friends and then I burn it. And then I go, this is what happens when you enter this room. So just get the word out. It's there's a lot of pincher bugs out there. Pinscher bug is the funniest word I haven't heard.

Yeah. You haven't heard Tootsweet in a while. I haven't heard Pinscherbug. Well, when I was doing the Mulligan cartoon, which is on Netflix right now, my Southern character, we're going to take care of the America Tootsweet. That's why it made me laugh because that was one of the phrases, my character, meaning let's get to it. All right. Next story. Oh, listen, this is a big one for me because a remote Amazon tribe gets Starlink internet and they're hooked on porn immediately.

Immediately, if not sooner, Dana. Of course. They're like, give it an hour. The guy goes, you're supposed to be cooking fish and hunting and you're whacking at the shitty, shitty gangbang. There's a lot. They're just getting introduced to

That's hysterical. It's essentially they don't have visual images. They don't have television. It's like instead of watching Father Knows Best, Deep Throat is the first thing you see. Instead of being introduced to I Love Lucy and building your way to just understanding TV, you're jumping into your ass-licked park.

And they don't know what's going on. They're like, are there real dinosaurs out there? Are they licking each other's asses? I mean, I mean, really, instead of Bugs Bunny and Disneyland, you've got shaving Ryan's privates.

there's a war movie but it's a little different and don't even get me on schindler's fist because instead of i know i knew you'd know these and they're real instead of sesame street you get schindler's fist which in this in this climate right now that's not the one to watch but i will say these guys and the dads are so sad i read this article the dads are like oh this kid's

You know, he's jerking his gherkin. He should be like hunting, fishing, doing all the things that they're supposed to do, making pottery. He's rubbing his wiener against a coconut tree.

Yeah, they're just completely. They're not only fascinated, they're completely oversexed in a neurotic way. They're humping animals and trees and bushes. They're just porn really works. You know, by the way, porn drives everything. Like when VHS cassettes came in, not doing too well. Got a porn movie on there. We go. All technology is invented.

And then some usually dude finds out to make it sexual. Like this was documented. The first telegraph message did it, did it, did it.

Send soldiers. We're Dodge City. The second one was, what are you wearing? Describe it in detail. Third one was, yo, yo, you up? That's right. Oh, some rapper sent me this? That's why Clinton didn't get in trouble because he didn't have cell phones. The reason Anthony Weiner got caught with his wiener because he had an iPhone and he thought, well, I could take pictures of nature and take pictures of that. Well, I know.

Take a picture of my wiener. Those tribe kids are learning about masturbation, too. I hate to say they come hand in hand, but he's got with aloe vera juice. It's probably a little different, but they really are going to try to get it because, you know, too much porn leads to that. I mean, a show of hands who's been there. Yeah, I gave up porn for a while. It's actually been almost what time is it?

It's been almost an hour. Porn. No, I can't. Not your thing. Not your thing. I don't find it.

It's kind of like someone, it's like, is a prostitute sexy? Or I say strippers in a club, a strip club. They're up there and they're in their G-string dancing and men are ogling and giving them dollar bills. But every single one, if you had a bullhorn, go, attention, strippers. You can leave now with no problem. You can go home and we'll give you the exact same amount of money you would get if you were stripping. All those in favor of leaving now, leave.

Ghost town. They would leave? I think so. They're not, they don't want to do it. They're not doing it for the love of the game. Okay, next one. As a Ford owner, there are lots of choices of where you get your vehicle serviced. You can choose to go to their place, the local dealership, your place, home, apartment, condo, your workplace, even your happy place, like your cottage on the lake. Go to your Ford dealer and choose Ford pickup and delivery to have your vehicle picked up, serviced, and brought right back.

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At Robert Half, we know talent. Visit roberthalf.com today. This reminded me of a story, Dana. I did Home Alone's Daniel Stern, for the ones listening, almost killed snorting cocaine in a movie. So he did a movie, and I guess he said they gave him B12, right? Which is what you get, which wakes you up anyway, because it looks like cocaine. And then they go...

On the later takes, the director said, I'll give you my personal stash of actual coke. So he went fucking bazooties. He went, he stayed up for two days. Now, in a related story, I did a movie called Light Sleeper. I only had one scene. And in a side story, I think you turned it down and that's how I got it. Really? It was with Paul Schrader who wrote Taxi Driver and Raging Bull. It was great. And he wrote and directed it early in SNL.

And they said, audition for it. And I did. And he said, that was pretty good. He said, I tell you what, I'm going to try to get Dana Carvey to do it. And if he doesn't, I'll give it to you. And I said, fine. And I think I had heard you didn't do it because you had to pay for yourself to fly back to New York to do it. Whoever did it. What year was this? You were probably where it was only a one day park.

to play a coke oh oh one day part i got it yeah yeah and also pay you would have lost money and i said oh well and they go dana is too busy and i said oh i'll do it so i did it and then the scary part was it's with willem dafoe it's me and him and i'm i'm selling him coke and i start trying to do i said how do i fake like do i go out of camera and do it and he goes no we'll just give you this and they put a line of coke talk about culty i was like

And I snort that into my brains, whatever it is. And they're like, yeah, okay, rolling. And I'm like, what is it again? Like I'm snorting. Because I had done coke, but I was like, I don't want to snort something that's not coke. That was scarier to me. So it was B12. Snort it. Burns. B12. In powder form. Yeah. And then I do about 10 takes. It's a wrap. You're the best. Blah, blah, blah. You're unbelievable. Blah, blah. You're new, fine. Star of the future. Whatever.

And then I will on the phone. Take care. Should I get your number? No. Okay, fine. That's okay. And then I leave and they have a car out there and I'm already like this, like a teapot, freaking out. I go, I think I'm just going to walk. And the driver's like, okay, pal. And then I walk and then I keep walking and I'm so gacked out on B12 because I forgot it's supposed to up you, you know.

I was like half hour later, I'm like, clang, clang, clang goes the trolley. I couldn't shut up. I couldn't stop talking. I couldn't go to sleep. I stayed up easily the whole night to the next night. You sure didn't have some vitamin Coke in there. Cause I don't know. Honestly, I don't know a B12. I mean, I had similar things like when I was, I was doing this scene. I don't know if it made the movie, um, as Garth and I had chocolate milk and, um, and I took a sip of it and I go, Oh,

Hey, this is Nestle's Quick, man. I asked for regular chocolate milk. Oh, wow. And I threw a fit. I go, this is Nestle's Quick, and I asked for regular chocolate milk. No, I made that up. I was trying to find a way to relate to your story. Oh, I think it would be better if they put cocaine in it. Well, I was trying to make mine so innocent compared to, like, Coke, Daniel Stern. And I'm just like, no, this is Nestle's Quick. I want Ovaltine. I didn't even complain. I was like, I'll do whatever I'm told. I like some Ovaltine. That'd be good.

God, any time to get in Garth, I like it. Garth, I heard, was an asshole and said, is that true? You were nice, but Garth. I got TMJ by doing golf. Garth, even that hurt. Because I do it on SNL, it would just be for five minutes, but like 10 hours a day, do this. Oh, right. Yeah, I've done this for 11 hours. I can't feel my lower jaw.

Then I went to the dentist. I go, my jaw hurts. And what have you been doing? I said, I've been making this face 10 hours a day. I go, stop. Well, don't do that. I said, not for what they're paying me, bitch. Yeah, I'll be. I'll still do it. OK, one more. What's next? And we get a couple more. Then we have a guest. Oh, you know, I just think that the models of the arm hair, it's been around forever. Lovely, lovely girl. Talented.

But when they make such a point, like this, it's hurting her shoulder to show I wouldn't look at my arm hair. Like this is my accidental pose. Okay, you have arm hair and everyone's supposed to go. Is that cool? Is it? I'm not grossed out. I don't care. It kind of, you know, just psychologically from where I'm from, it denotes masculinity, you know? So I guess, is it sexy to you or neutral? It's saying that I'm...

Well, it's saying I'm ambiguously what doesn't matter. What don't worry about what I am and also check this shit out. Yeah. Obviously I don't care if anyone wants to do anything. They want the body. I just think that we human beings evolved to like, I know a hippie to be guy. It's like, if you have a nostril hair, that's like the co-star coming down here, he goes, you shouldn't clip that. It's just natural. Nose hair is just natural. Um,

He didn't think you should whiten your teeth. I said, would you rather kiss someone with bright yellow, brown, black teeth or white teeth? That stumped him for a bit. Yeah, I don't need taupe teeth. But the idea of what is natural. You know, we're going to leave the planet at some point. Yeah, where's the bush? Pan down. I mean, come on. Are we just stopping at the armpits? Come on.

Yeah. Are you going to shave, pluck, manipulate your exterior? Or your eyebrows? Get like your eyebrows go. Yeah. Those porn guys in Africa, they're the ones. It goes back to them. They were whacking off to that cover for a while. Okay. Shaving. We'll go to the next one.

What is this? Oh, this is some guy doing celebrity laughs. I thought you might like this because it's celebrity impressions. Yeah. Let's see what... You got your pretty good, Dan. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Oh! Will Smith. Hey, um... That's pretty good. I mean... Yo. Owen.

That's hilarious. Ray Romano. Oh, that's pretty good. Hell yeah! All right, okay. Denzel. Now he's cheating. Very funny. Very good. Ha!

That's funny now. He's just making them up. Hilarious. Uh...

Okay. God damn, he's cramming him in. Jesus fucking shit. Lord have mercy. Wait, something's wrong. Stop this. Oh, yeah. Comedy. Okay. Okay, this could have been five TikToks.

I'm going to jump out. He had some good ones. Yeah, there's some good ones in there. Yeah, definitely. It's celebrities laughing, which is kind of a new way to do impressions, right? Yeah, it's what I call micro-impressions, just like a push of a... It gets a quick hook in on them. Yeah, a quick hook. They were pretty good. I mean, I haven't heard impressions of like...

The Rock. There's some new ones, right? Yeah, I mean, just singular sounds are good. I do this in my act. Christopher Walken, sorry, old one, sees an amazing magic trick. Wow! That sounds exactly like him, by the way. Christopher Walken can't open a jar of peanut butter.

ow it's all the same sound can't open the door why doing a weird thing yeah it's funny weird strange things um i have owen wilson tells a toddler they can't have a snack sorry buddy you can't have any more candy oh i do a lot of them they're called micro impressions i like it okay what's any we got another one

Oh, I just thought this is interesting. Look at this plastic surgery. That's what we're showing folks. It's a guy who looks pretty old. Looks like he runs a comedy club. He looks beat up. Yeah, he looks like they got the shit kicked out of him. He kind of looks like Borat's friend in that movie. And then that's him, Dana, after he got a few things. Show the next picture. Is that real? Can they prove that?

I mean, he did a good job. Okay. Hair. New hair is a huge improvement. But the guy could have grown his out. Okay. New hair. Grew his beard. The eyes are so different. The eyes are different. Yeah. It looks like his son. Yeah. Nose smaller, jaw and neck fixed, so it looks tighter. He honestly looks 30 years younger.

Yeah, it's hard. That guy with the neck on the lower left, it's hard to shrink. You take the fat out, but to get it that tight, well, it's a massive surgery. Feels like someone's choking him, yeah. Because from his Adam's apple to the back of his head is like a foot. Now it's like six, seven inches. I mean, I need proof on this one. He brought in a picture of Robert Smigel and said, turn me into this.

Well, no, actually, they reversed it because that's a young guy who wanted to look older. Oh. He had plastic surgery to look older. Well, it worked perfectly. Anyway, in a related story, I'm flying to Turkey next week. Okay, what's next? I want to get all that done. You don't need any work. You're too young. What's next? Oh, this is a kinesin bit. I just want to show the audience an old kinesin bit.

great i think it's funny it's not too long hello this guy he call he calls someone from the audience kate there yeah live yeah hang on a second it gets loud of course it's kinnison watch me work kevin watch me work hi kate it's so good to get the best voice this is sam kinnison i'm down at the wilderness theater yes you are the winner of a very special prize and what's that well you remember kevin

You won! Alright, that's all. Jesus! He's doing kinesin now.

Dude, talk about getting the crowd going. I can't even process that. Is that crazy? First of all, how scary. So the idea was she had an affair with the guy's brother. Right. So he calls her from stage, which is always risky. Will they answer? Do they want to be on the line? And then I'm like, you won! Is that too rough?

oh it was just kennison i mean if you know him he did stuff like that constantly he had a real part of his act was being brokenhearted and feeling just put upon and burned and dumped by women he had a real chip on his shoulder and he made it hysterically funny with that rhythm that takes a lot of strength to scream that loud oh my god he'd say like this he'd have the microphone and he goes ah you

You tell your girlfriend, I'm going to Vegas. Yeah, that's fine. Oh, really? That's okay. Yeah. Just the boys. Yeah, that's fine. Let me tell you something. Let me just take your dick. You're not going to need it. And he takes the mic off and he holds it and he goes, you won't need this. That's his thing is he'll talk really casual like that one about Africa.

So these people are out and starving in Africa. And I just think in the desert, they might want to think that they should go to where the food is. You know what this is on the bottom? You know what you're standing on? It's sand. It's sand. It's going to be sand. A little Wicked Witch of the West, I thought. All right, let's do another one. We're doing pretty good, right?

Oh, we're having a good time. We're killing it. We're having a good time. Now, I only had this question for you, Dana. When it says Ben Affleck's teen debuts red hair, we're not making fun of that. We're saying Jennifer Lopez's child Emmy seems to have removed their flesh tunnels. I'm sorry? What is that? What does that mean? Is that because they used to say Playboy was nudity, but...

Hustler had tunnel shots. It's kind of a rough term, but I don't like the term flesh tunnels. I don't know what it means. Remove their flesh tunnels. What do you think? Oh, I got an idea. Earlobes?

Oh, that's probably true. Can you see it though? When you have like a nickel size hole in your ear, is that one have one? Yeah. I guess maybe, maybe in the lower right. Is there tell us on YouTube? Cause is that a hole there? Yeah. I don't know.

I, you know, again, I always root for kids who didn't ask to be put in this bubble of madness. So to me, and without knowing anything, I just say it's kind of hip to own it. Like if we're going to be out here and have all this Pavarazzi and freaks, I'm going to wear like this bright red Bozo the Clown wig.

It sort of feels like a sort of F you to the press. No, it's not a wig. I don't know. I think, I think it's a slip on wig. I'm sorry. Oh, look at the kid. Looks like Timothy. I don't know. I can't, we're not piling on JLo and Ben. They're going through it right now. They might be fine. Who the fuck knows? Anybody who gets in that machine for whatever reason, it's, it's not funny. You're followed by freaks and.

Ben, over here, over here, over here. I like when they go, they look grumpy today. I'm like, well, they're being followed by a caravan of cars that are cutting off traffic to take photos. They're not smiling every second because they're actually terrified that you're going to crash into them or kill them. Who's the biggest star who moved the far furthest away from

Like where, where can you live? There's no paparazzi because the paparazzi are going to be in LA. Cause there's good fish in there. They're going to be maybe near Montecito, you know, are they going to, they will fly for a picture. Like if you, if you're a big star and you go to the Maldives, they will fly there. The hotel will leak it. They'll come out. Make sure with lenses that can take pictures. Yeah.

I'd say, so if you wanted to hide out on planet Earth, you wanted to get rid of all the fame and move somewhere where you're going to hide out, where would you go? Halifax, you know, Nova Scotia. That's what I was thinking. New Zealand, out where they... Yeah, New Zealand's very cool. I mean, there's places I think are really cool. I just don't know. I'm not good at going somewhere I don't know one person. It's just too...

isolated from me. Well, you make friends so easily. You come into the club. Hey, what's going on? You tip well. You do a couple jokes. What's going on? I'm not as social as it seems. I'm too weird. I believe you will tour Australia within the next two years. I would tour Australia or maybe London, but they always say the first round you don't make a lot because you just see how you sell. Who knows you? Who's heard of you? And then the next time, now they have a gauge. I don't want to do

the first sniffing tour and just recon to not make money. Netflix, global though. Yeah, that's like, I love the countries, but I just don't know. If they don't know me, I don't go where I'm not famous. No chance. No chance. I would go to a small village in Tuscany where there's only old Italian people hanging out. Oh.

All right. We might have had a pretty good show. I think we're probably done, right? What do you think? I think so. Yeah. Let's wrap it up, I think. Oh, we have the guest. Oh, what am I saying? You can introduce our guest. I'm excited. Yes. This is very much in the ether for the last few years. But anyway, our guest today is Sarah Edmondson.

And she wrote a memoir, Scared, the true story of how I escaped NXIVM. Scarred, maybe. You think it's scarred? The famous cult. Oh, scarred. Maybe, but she's scared and scarred. I made a... I don't know. I think it is scared or scarred. Yeah, it's a double word. But anyway, she was in the NXIVM cult. She has a podcast called Culti...

a little bit culty podcast. And she talks all about the, how she got involved with NXIVM, how, how you get indoctrinated, how you get brainwashed. And she actually was branded with the initials of the cult leader. And you'll hear all about this coming up next. This is called fun times. And we're going to ask her about, uh, the Tik TOK cult stuff that's in the ether right now. So she's the person to ask about it. So, uh,

Just stick. Here we go. We'll just clip it right in. You know, Dana, I think we have a connection. We've been friends for a long time. And for this episode of fly on the wall, we've partnered with eHarmony, which isn't us. eHarmony is a dating app to find someone you can be yourself with. We are not dating. Want to clarify that, but the connection is what you want in a dating partner. Um,

Just someone like, if you found someone that listened to this podcast, that's somewhat of a connection. And then you sort of build on that. You want someone with some common ground. Yeah. It's not, it, look, if you want to connect romantically over, you know, super fly or fly on the wall, uh,

It just makes us happy. You don't want to be watching The Godfather and the person next to you goes, this movie sucks. You want to- So dumb. Yeah. You want to connect on all issues and harmonize in life. Similar sensibility, similar sense of humor, and similar sense of sense. I don't like when they watch The Godfather and they're like, everyone in this movie is so old. I'm like, they're 40.

Watch 2001 Space Odyssey. Too much of this movie is in outer space. I don't like it. When do they land? When do they land? Why is that stupid red light acting so silly? Who's friends with a robot? We know dating isn't easy. That's why we partnered with eHarmony because dating is different on eHarmony. They want you to find someone who gets you, someone you can be comfortable with.

Yeah. I mean, the whole idea is you're going to take a compatibility quiz, helps your personality come out in your profile, which makes all the profiles on eHarmony way more interesting and fun to read. So I think this is the goal of dating sites, and I think eHarmony does it great. It's just finding somebody you're compatible with.

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I know. And it's not learning a language when you're older, you know, over the age of 20 is difficult. You know, I mean, all the high school Spanish I took a grade school Spanish, you know, all I can say is Ola and hasta luego. So it goes out of your head. So now you have Rosetta stone, David, tell them about it. Well, Dana, you know, more than anyone trusted expert for 30 years with millions of users in 25 languages. Uh, I mean, my gosh, uh,

They have Spanish, French, Italian, German. I don't think you can throw them a curveball. I think they're going to know. What don't they have? The language you want. Yeah. And immerses you in many ways. There's no English translations. You know what I'm saying?

I know no English. You need a Rosetta Stone for English. No English translation, so you really learn to speak and listen and think in that language. That's the whole idea of Rosetta Stone is that it sticks to your head. It sticks to your brain. I learned German out of a book. It just doesn't stick as hard, so this is the way to do it. Designed for long-term retention.

There's a true accent feature. It gives you feedback on your pronunciation. Yes. And of course, there's desktop app options. There's an audio companion and ability to download lessons offline. Yeah, so that's great. Lifetime access to all 25 language courses Rosetta Stone offers for 50% off. A steal! And I do think that the off-label thing that... I'm ad-libbing now, going off script.

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You just visit rosettastone.com slash fly. That's 50% off, unlimited access to 25 language courses for the rest of your life. Redeem your 50% off at rosettastone.com slash fly today. Hi, we started. We actually finished. We just wrapped it up. Is it over? It was great. So good.

We're just psychoanalyzing each other a little bit. The two crazy people. You know, Dana put me on a calorie count last week and I was going to ask you if that's normal or not. Are you allowed to eat avocados and quinoa? That's the main thing. Because if you can... I don't know. I have to run it by him. Oh, you can? Yeah.

I just, for the record, never counted my calories in Nexium. I was one of the few that was like, that's dumb you guys. But I mean, I was, I was still weight focused. Cause that's the one that jumped out at you. Yeah, I know that was a red flag. No, no, I'm not going to do that. And I didn't play volleyball either. Just also for the record, which I think is what saved me in the long run. I mean, well, save me from like the

What is a day in an NXIVM cult? Like, what is it? Is it because you do have Wi-Fi? Do you have TV? Is it just like a regular? We're just going to jump in. I guess we're going to jump in. Dana, this is Sarah and.

We usually do intros beforehand as well, so we'll record that afterwards. Gotcha. So it won't seem... Well, I guess so for people just joining us, we're live globally. David has just asked Sarah what it was like a day in the life, i.e. the Beatles, in the cult called NXIVM. And initially it was just a self-help group, right? I mean, that's what you got into in your mind, right?

Correct. Yeah. What we see in The Vow and most of the media outlets and podcasts about NXIVM is not what I was experiencing at the time. It was a self-help group. It was a community. I mean, it's a lot of things. The way I talk about it now, it sounds so cheesy, obviously, and cringy for me. But it was a group of people who thought they were working on themselves and their goals and various projects and using the tech. And I have that obviously in quotes because it's not a technology. It's a technology.

It's basically a seat, cognitive behavioral therapy and neuro linguistic programming and some Buddhism and basic life's truths rolled into a nice little package. But a day in the life would be different depending if you were saying me living in Vancouver and running my own satellite center or living in Albany in Keith's inner circle harem, which also for the record, I never was in. No, you weren't in there because these things are always upstate somewhere. It's always a little out of reach. Yeah.

The upstate New York has a lot of cult groups. A lot. Yeah, Colty County, which is east of Albany, I think. Colty County. Yeah, it's east of Albany. But I don't know if that means that's that. But what you said a second ago, so they refer to the process, the mental mind-bending stuff as technology, right? Is that kind of like Scientology does that or no? I'm pretty sure that Keith...

directly stole that from L. Ron Hubbard. That and a couple other words like suppressive and other practices in terms of keeping people loyal and telling on each other. I don't know who stole from who, but given that Scientology is much bigger and more successful as a cult, I'm guessing that Keith apparently had Dianetics in his library, so we can assume that he

So you tell on each other with the phrase, someone not really believing or buying into the program is called a suppressive. Yes. Or somebody, if you have a suppressive thought, like if you're jealous of somebody else, anything that's not upholding and uplifting and full of joy for someone else would be a suppressive thought. Anything that's negative. A lot of comedy is suppressive, technically. Oh my God. Yeah. I mean, in that world, I don't think it's a problem, but...

yeah. Are people lighthearted? Isn't it like a regular like group of like fun people or is everything sort of the Stepford Wives? There's no, is it a weird vibe? Again, it's depending on where you were. There was Mexico City satellites. It was New York City. I was in Vancouver. There was a school in LA for a bit. Vancouver was a lot of

up and coming struggling actors and artists and musicians and entrepreneurs just getting going with their life. Generally, we had a fair bit of fun, but Albany and upstate it, Nippy and I, my husband, whenever we showed up, we're like, does somebody die? And actually some people did at some point, but it was just this morose, you know, very not fun vibe. That's why I kind of tended to avoid the area as much as I could. I

Yeah. And back to your earlier question, a day in the life for me would have been like if it was a training day, if I was working with people, I would be showing up in a little power suit and my sash and greeting people and welcoming them into the center and asking them what their goals were and introducing them to people. And it was be very positive. And, you know, we wanted to create a space where people would essentially be.

They were doing therapy for 12 to 14 hours a day. So it was pretty intense. Sounds like a tryout. And you can imagine, in retrospect, I lost my 30s to a very painful situation. Were you sort of the boss? Like, did you go to Albany and then he says, you're pretty good, why don't you...

splinter off or you started sort of yeah i took a five-day training in vancouver it was uh there was a school in seattle at the time and they happened to just do a one-off with that i attended and i thought it was great at the at the time and i i was running this women's group of actresses who were you know we're all starting off and we get together on tuesdays and do the artist way and talk about like getting a new agent and updating your demo reel and things like that

And then I got invited to do this program and I came back to my group. I was like, guys, I found the, you know, the thing that we've been missing. Like we need to do the deeper inner work. We haven't been really getting to the root of it. And so half of them kind of came with me and the other half thought I was in a cult and

And we didn't talk for about a decade. We're all friends now. But it turns out they were right about that. And that was a hard pill to swallow. But the ones that came with me, I mean, I got to bring some of my best friends with me on this crazy journey, which obviously sucked for a large part of it. But on the other side, here we are and we're OK and kind of love my life like that.

Look at me now. This is great. I get to talk to you guys. It's weird and wild. It got out. That's fantastic. So in the early days, it seems like the first thing they would do, I don't know if it's kind of like the military, is tell you that you're broken, but in a way that, oh, and we know how to fix you. I'm just wondering where the first hook was where you went, wow, this is awesome. You know, what was that word package that kind of spoke to you?

Yeah, the hook is important. And it's something that we try to do on our pod is try to understand what every person's unique hook is for whatever it is that they're joining. Whether it's a relationship that turns out to be abusive, you know, no one signs up for that. They sign up for something wonderful. And so there's this promise of idealism. My initial hook was actually meeting Mark Vicente. You both have seen The Vow, right? Mm-hmm.

long time ago during COVID. Oh, yes. Yeah. Because David, I remember we messaged about that. I think you've just seen it. But Mark Vicente was the filmmaker who brought me in and I met him at this film festival and I loved his film. He had done What the Bleep Do We Know, which at the time was, you know, revolutionary. And yeah. And I just remember thinking like,

that's the kind of film and TV I want to do. I want to do media that shifts consciousness and, you know, gives people. Yeah. And at the time I was doing like beer commercials and vampire teen things on the Canadian version of Nickelodeon. Like I just wasn't doing the meaningful work that I had thought I would do as an actor. So to me, that was like, you know, I'm just going to do like, I was going to be his assistant. Like I would have done whatever he proposed. And he said, Oh, I just took this, this workshop and,

And the hook for me then was it was a community of like-minded individuals who were trying to make the world better. Humanitarians and his particular angle was through media and come check it out. And that was, I mean, if it was what it was supposed to be, it would have been great, but it was a front and he didn't know that. Like he was being used in the same way I was later used to bring people in for this false promise. Yeah.

It's all easy at the beginning. And then it turns into, there is sort of a sexual thing that comes in. By the way, these guys, I just saw the TikTok guy. He's not Brad Pitt either. They're all like sixes and sevens. I don't know why these guys have so much power. No, you know why? I think, I think it's because they, they don't, they're not, they're unassuming, right? Like with Keith, I never, he's so unattractive. I was, I never was, I never was threatened by him in that way. And I think he got into women's,

pants later, but also minds by, by providing this, like, and Dana and I were talking earlier, David, before you got on about attachment issues and codependency, he, he, he slipped into, to women's first, sometimes DMS, but also, um,

Created a safe space as like a father figure for women who maybe didn't have such a great relationship with their dad. And created a, you know, a relationship before he was going to mentor them in other ways, which happened later. Like he did it in steps because he can't get women in a normal way. You don't open with the threesome. Right. No. Talk about it. Yeah. Other stuff. Yeah. You got to, you know, move it up. Is that a kind of a...

sociopathic thing or how planned is it? Like he, so he's talking to a young woman and this is the first tier of what will happen later.

And it's making them feel good about themselves, that he really cares, all those sorts of cliches. He must have been had good game in that way, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, like I established and I try to be very clear because people make assumptions. I didn't join the harem, but when I had his full attention and he was paying attention to me, which was rare and I didn't have a lot of alone time with him, it did feel like he was very there. It was like I was special. I was being paid attention to.

But he was also, he just was good at rapport. He was a master at rapport. In fact, that was a class that we taught people who didn't have the skill naturally, which you probably, you kind of have to do to be, I think, in show business. You have to be able to like connect with and shoot the shit with people. Some people don't have that skill and they're just awkward. And yeah, he had that in spades. I wouldn't say charismatic. I would say...

he was a rapport whore and knew how to do it. Well, it seems like a lot of these cult leaders, I don't know a lot of them, the one in Oregon was the wild country. It's like,

he, yeah, he drove, he did. So these things you're not expecting, he's driving, he's really into his Cadillac and he eats junk food and all. And it's sort of, it, it's the antithesis of what you think, but it's a manipulate onto its own. Like, look, he's really a regular person. In other words, like the WeWork guy, I don't know if he could sue me, but it seemed like creating this corporate cult around him. Look, he's,

He's almost autistic in his brilliance. He thinks different like us. And look, he doesn't even, his socks don't match, you know, all these tricks that people play.

We actually just did an episode about Ray Dalio and his hedge fund called Bridgewater, which he runs 100% like a cult. Like when I heard how people have to live and operate at Bridgewater, I hope he doesn't sue me. This is from a book that I did not write called The Fund. And I was like, holy shit. He's basically, he set up his own little cult and calls it a bridge fund, calls it a hedge fund.

And it's just a little game that he's playing. All the text, minus the branding and the sex, exactly the same as NXIVM. How does the money come into NXIVM? After a while, it's, we need help here. We're all a group. Hit your friends up. We have to keep this thing going. Yeah, Keith was always looking for fresh blood. And do you have to pay to join? Or where does the money come from? Most of the money came from people who had a lot of money. Like when I joined, I was living in a...

Almost said van down by the river. Sorry. It's okay. Sorry. Which is getting expensive to get a van down by the river. Yeah, actually, especially those hipster ones. It's all renovated on the inside. It's a totally different thing than in the 90s. But my rent was like $400 a month. So to spend $2,000 on a five-day training

It's a big leap for me. And I think that's also something that happens sidebar. And I'll come back to your question is when people invest that kind of money, if they don't have it, they really want to make their decision a good decision and get the most out of their money. And the sunk cost fallacy prevents them from seeing things that maybe would

be more of a red flag because they don't want to be dumb. Sort of stick to it. Yeah, they don't look like they made a mistake. People hang in things too long. I've bought things and then I don't take them back right away because I feel so stupid. I don't like it right away and I go, I'll give it six months and then say I just bought it. Did you think this TikTok thing I just have been hearing about this week is...

Any, any words of advice? You see any problems there or what do you think? Oh yeah. We've actually been following that for a while because we've been in touch with some family members. And before this was a documentary, um, we're going to do an episode on it next week, but I, I see all the same, uh, same, um, patterns. Yeah. Same patterns. Thank you. Same template, especially with the women who are saying, Oh no, I'm fine. And I chose this and I'm just committing to God. Like it's,

you know, anytime you're in a group where an organization is encouraging you not to speak to your family because, you know, they're not on God's path or they're, they're not in alignment with the values of the blah, blah, blah. Like shunning excommunication is a huge red flag for me. Um, God wants you to cut everyone off is a tough sell, but it's, it's very, that one seems like tough because it's very similar already. What I've seen is like,

And everything's fine. And the guy, I think it's very smart. The main guy has like a management company. So it's a great way to get people, young minds that are looking for, you know, you want to be in show business, you want to dance, you want to have fun. And they're all doing it together. And then he also coincidentally has a church. So once you're in there, then you start and then he tells you you're lukewarm. Have you heard that one, Dana? Yeah.

That's one of the manipulative words. Lukewarm is the best. Hey, man, lukewarm. Somebody doesn't want to get into heaven. That's cool. And he's like, wait, wait, what's going on? I'm not in heaven? No. Yeah. Not the way you are now. That's such a good point. Especially with, like we always ask people, so what the hook was that you asked earlier, but what's the promise? Like, what do you think that you're buying into that's so great? And especially with the religious cults, it's like, you know, being saved, getting into heaven. If you believe that. Heaven's a good payoff.

Yeah. I mean, I wasn't raised that way, so it's hard for me to relate, but I kind of do the math. My equivalent was like, I'm doing this to be successful. These are the tools that I need to reach my full potential and be successful and be the best, most peaceful, joyful person.

Integrated non-reactive, you know Buddha version of myself, which I'm not currently so if I don't do this path I'm not gonna have all those things That's my version of heaven like I that's how I try to relate to it and if people really believe that and they have that connection with God and Then there's some guy saying yeah I spoke to God like we have a direct line to God which almost all these religious cults claim that especially like FLDS and all the Mormon Jehovah's Witness

They, they say that like I spoke to God and he said, I need to marry you even though you're 12, but God said that I should. So I just took off. Yeah. He was just, I'm 59 and you're 13. What are you going to do? Talk back to God. Yeah. Disrespect God. Your call. Hey, your call. By,

By the way, I don't know how this relates, Sarah, but my wife's Irish nephew, he's very Irish. And he's like 35 years of age and he's wandering around L.A. visiting. Right. So he goes to the Scientology Center and he goes through the whole thing.

And they're about to... Like just for fun? Well, he's just a curious Irish. Oh, I guess I'll go in here. What's it called? Sauter Tunnel. And then he said, well, I've been here for an hour and I still don't know what you believe in. And that's the definition of a cult. And then he just stormed out. I think they escorted him off the property. But they were going to do the E-meter. E-meter? Yeah. I have such fantasies about...

busting up Scientology, but I think they probably know who I am now. I'll take you out, Tootsweet. Tootsweet, I love that phrase. Where does that come from? Where has it gone? Is it Latin? Tootsweet. French, Tootsweet. Right away. I think you guys, Nixxiom just needed some bigger names. You need someone from a sitcom. They have Tom Cruise, so they're killing it.

uh, over there. But if you've got, if you could get Taylor Swift, yeah, it's over. Cause she has, she's already got her own. Well, Sarah, I have another question. Yeah. This puff daddy thing who my mom says, does he work for Sean? Yeah. Sean, John. I mean, she doesn't understand, but, uh,

So is that a form of this or from what you've heard, which is mostly bits and pieces and nothing's proved yet, but does that feel like something weird going on over there? Oh yeah. I mean, I haven't done a deep dive into that, but just from what I've seen peripherally and superficially and from my experience being seven years out of this cult,

is the relationship between an abuser and a victim of domestic violence and a cult leader and their followers is the exact same dynamic. It's the same way of getting someone in, the same love bombing, the same isolation, the same creating an us versus them, us against the world. It's the same with sex trafficking. It's the exact same way of getting someone hooked. And underlying fear, you can't say anything or get out.

Right. Especially like, I believe he had NDAs. These women had NDAs with him. Like that's such a red flag. And same with R. Kelly and Epstein. Like it's all the same shit over and over and over again. Right. God, your podcast is never going to run out of topics. Honestly, we do one a week. We have probably like 200 in the pipeline just waiting. Oh, really? It's insane. Because we're a bit broader too than just

a straight up traditional cult or a little bit culty. So things are a little cult, like, you know, being, you know, we're talking like an acting teacher, it'd be part of like a troop or a show that, you know. Oh yeah. They acting teachers, especially vulnerable actors and actresses. I had this, um,

acting teacher named Jeff Corey. And yeah, he was like a cult figure in a sense. Like he would get his whole thing was to break people like he would start berating this woman who reads a monologue until she's just sobbing.

You know, and I at the time was like, this is just weird. This isn't this isn't helpful at all. And then she made a couple doing a scene. You're not doing the work. And so he had to take his belt off, get on all fours. She put the belt around his neck and got on top of her. And he says, ride him, ride him. I'm like, I go, I'm

I just want to be. I'm auditioning for a young Sheldon tomorrow. I'm playing Sir Laughs a lot on Saturday. I don't know if I need a phallic. There's so many culty acting teachers. It's just basically abuse of power, right? Like when you go into a class, you're saying, hey, you're going to teach me something and I expect you to teach me.

And you trust them to do that. There's trust, yeah. There's trust, yeah. And if we didn't have that, we'd never learn. We'd be like, no tennis coaches or whatever. But you have to have that. But if they have bad intent or they're a malignant or sociopathic narcissist like Keith, then you're in trouble because anything goes. Well, the one thing unique about, maybe it's not unique about NXIVM, was the people, I guess they called DOS, the women who got into the situation where they'd be strapped down and branded. Yeah.

is that a common cult move or was that unique to um it's that's just a power move just well it just seems like the most radical thing you really have to take you couldn't do it on day one that's a long process to get them we're going to strap you to the table if you get past that is that sort of like you're in that's where you think the goal this is too far or you think

Okay. I got to question some things now. This is good. Yeah. I mean, I was 12 years in, I was fully aware that people thought we were in a cult. And when I saw that I was about to get a brand, I was like, guys, people are, this is really, this is really not helping our case. Yeah. I even said that like people think we're a cult already. Do you think this is a good idea? I even, you know, made jokes the day of the branding. Cause I was trying to like, you know, make it better for me and for the rest of the women. But, um,

I think if that hadn't happened, I would probably still be coaching a goals program in upstate New York and Vancouver right now because everything else up until then, I mean, there were problems, lots of problems with the company, but nothing illegal and nothing violent.

And I mean, other than the sex behind closed doors, but if I wasn't experiencing that, I wouldn't have known about it. And in many ways, I'm honestly grateful that it happened, but I'm glad I woke up because, you know, that's not happening anymore. But I will say, I think Keith did that because people were leaving over time. His inner circle changed.

wasn't solid and I feel like he needed to lock down loyalty and he thought he was so out of touch with reality similar to how I think in my opinion I don't want to get sued Tom Cruise might be not in reality no one's around him going hey Tom that's probably not a good idea like no one's gonna tell Tom or Keith no or David Miscavige no right and if it's it's within the world like Tom Cruise who we've met great guy but when you're in that world

everyone's okay with it where they are. So it's like, why should we have a problem with it? It's sort of, you know, like even NXIVM, it's like, we're adults, we're having sex, even if it's groups, whatever, who are we to say? So that's the argument. Like, are we breaking any laws? It gets very, it's a very gray area, correct? It is. The women that you were joking around with about the branding, it just seems like, like,

Keith's getting that idea and he had to share it with other people before the branding process. He pitched it in a sense, right? Because he had other people tying you down and then the other people with the brand, because it seems like to go back to, it seems so outrageous.

That it may be people were hypnotized into thinking it was magic, but how fraternity they do that. Well, that's, that was one of the ways they got, got them to do it. And it is true that if you'd introduce it on day one, my five day. So in 12 years from now, you're going to have the leaders initials seared into your flesh without anesthetic. Um,

You didn't know his initials. Am I crazy? If that was on page two of the first pamphlet in the meeting. Oh, they don't reveal that. Which is, by the way, a template called behavior. It's always a bait and switch. Hey, we're selling blah, blah, blah. But it's actually, you know, with Osho, enlightenment, but also getting, do you know that Osho sterilized his women so they couldn't have babies? Sidebar. Sorry. You asked me, David, I did not know that. Yeah. That's actually what woke me up.

Not the branding itself, but figuring out it was Keith's initials. Was it sideways or something? Yeah. You had to look in the mirror and tilt your head to the side to see the KR. That was in the documentary. Yeah. Yeah. So until, I think it's like somewhere between three and six weeks after getting branded,

Things were starting to go sideways. And I showed one person, my husband still hadn't even seen it yet because we were, he was New York, I was Vancouver, we were traveling and she saw the KR and I lost my shit. And it like everything that anyone ever said about us that we were in a cult or he was, I'd heard like there was media that he was a pedophile, which I thought was of course a smear campaign because how could the most noble man in the world be a pedophile? Everything that had ever happened

been told about him all of a sudden that moment was true and i was like holy fucking shit i'm in a cult and i'm branded with his initials on my body like it was the most horrific awakening ever i could imagine but i but it was fast but it was fast it wasn't like but maybe he you know should i go back and like it was i was like okay oh and how the fuck do i get out yeah light bulb dana you know that i i did i branded dana with my um netflix special

The title of it. He didn't even know until it was sideways. I can't remember the name of it actually. It's so, um, it's the, the narcissism. What do you, what, what kind of mind, you know, first she's going to tell everybody that it's just room and no numerals or something. You're not told it's his initials. It's some, it's our symbol that it's a good thing and we'll all bond or whatever. Um,

What kind of sociopath, what kind of mind, like how does he, how do you think he rationalized that? Did you ask him? Did you say, hey, is this KR a coincidence or what's going on? I never spoke to him about it. Unfortunately, as soon as we decided we were out, we did this whole double agent thing where we were pretending to be in, but then like trying to let people know, which eventually got busted after a couple of weeks because somebody called me and recorded me. Trying to do a jailbreak.

Yeah, I did. I was like, don't go. They were like, I'm supposed to go to Albany. And I heard that. No, no, no. Don't go to Albany. And that they were recording me. And that got sent to. Oh, no. You got. I got. I got. And it was it was you can't write this shit like I'm like I'm 40 was 40 at the time going to the FBI and trying to explain to them.

That I did this and also willingly, like it's on, I'm on camera saying, master, would you brand me? It'd be an honor, which, you know, like, then that's what Keith did. So no, no, it's, I can laugh. It's fine. It's crazy. It is crazy, but that's how brilliant slash dumb he is because he set it up to make it look consensual, but.

He filmed, he recorded himself talking to Allison Mack, explaining how she should do it, to answer your earlier question. He got Allison Mack on board who explained it to all the women. So it looked like it was coming from a woman. So smart, but also dumb because he recorded it and Allison Mack saved that. And then India found the thumb drive and gave it to the FBI and they played it in court. And up until then, he's like, yeah, the women did this for me. I mean, who, like if they want to brand themselves in my initials, like...

that's up to them. No, he created it, his idea. He planted the seed. He said, he even said, put their hands up like this. So it looks sacrificial. And you know, like it was all his idea. So he's, where's Ellis Mack? Is she, she's out. She did two years. Oh, okay. Yeah. And I have not spoken to her. I would love to.

when I'm allowed to. There's a lot of people I can't speak to yet because they're still awesome. Facebook friends, nothing? I wish. I mean, I'm dying to. I just want to hug her and hope that she's doing okay. She has a new Western out, I think, where she plays part of a cowgirl who brands cows. Oh, Gina. No, I don't know.

That's called Yellowstone. This is not the place. Oh, well, no, I'm sorry. By the way, you've seen Yellowstone, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. That was the first show I watched where I was like, I need to watch something that's not cult related and I just need like a little break from the cult. And then they're branding each other with like literally searing each other with the Yellowstone. Not this again. I was like, God, you guys, come on. Be original. They seem to think it's cool.

Yeah. Okay. I have some just general questions. Sure. Some wrap ups. If people are listening now, think they may be codependent or like you answer this. If you're in a bad relationship with someone, say you have an abusive boyfriend and he's breaking you down and complimenting you. Is that that's it's not literally a cult, but it's cult ish. It's codependency. Yeah.

It feels like to me, what, what saved you was that you got in touch with anger. Cause, cause when you're always like trying to please your master and you get in this codependent way, don't make a man. He means well, or she means well. So was that, I think that's a great,

to try to cultivate, no pun intended, if you want to get away from a destructive relationship. Get mad, because it sounded like you got really mad once you saw the K-R. Yes. That was anger. I did. Yeah, I did get really mad. And I also, in NXIVM and most cults, you're not allowed to be reactive. It means that you have an issue, which up until that point, like it was the inner gaslighting or outward gaslighting of, oh, you seem really angry about that. Why don't you talk to your coach and maybe journal on it and see what you come up with? Yeah.

Oh, God. That kind of thing. So it was this always flip back to you. And for the first time, I was like, no, it's okay that I'm angry because you lied to me. Yeah, right. And that's, I think, what most people don't understand is that you can't consent to something if the initial agreement is false, which is what happens in a domestic violence relationship as well. The abusive person is presenting a false persona to hook the victim. It's a lie.

um my last one is you have go ahead no i just i have unlimited time you can ask me whatever no we have to do our own stupid podcast back in 19 um how is your your marriage is good was your husband part of next i met him there oh okay yeah all right and so really jealous that he's not here and oh well he could have come up

He will say, say hello. But so when you got out, did he get out at the same time? Yes, we were. We got out at the same time. And if you if you recall, probably my favorite part of the vow is he went in around the time that we were doing our double agent thing and confronted the leadership, which nobody ever did, and recorded himself being like, what the fuck were you? You branded my fucking wife.

which was so rewarding for me because we never got to say, like we were so obedient. I didn't realize how obedient we were until we got out. We would never say, no, I disagree with that. Nothing, because you'd get in trouble. So for him, going in there and telling them off

It's just, oh, I just wish he'd flipped over that egg buffet table or something because that would have just, you know, and he didn't because he didn't want his friends to have to clean up the mess, which was very kind of him because a lot of the people there were innocent bystanders. But yeah, we're fine. We do a lot of therapy. Our podcast together is very rewarding. Yeah.

working on a second book of everything we've learned since the podcast, which is so much. We want to be able to give it to other survivors so they don't have to listen to 200 episodes. Sure. All right. So very, very quickly, what are the top three or five warning signs you may be

In codependency or if you were Jeff Foxworthy, you may be in a cult. Jeff, if Jeff Foxworthy is in a cult with Ron White, if you, yeah, I would say, um, if someone listening right now, yeah, like,

If you feel, you know, first of all, I still look isolated. Whoever is with you is like isolated you from your friends and family or encouraged you not to have relationships with people that you love. You can't feel like you can't talk to them or have honest conversations with them about what's going on. If you feel that the leader or the person is the ultimate authority and you have to defer to them or run things by them and you can't, you can't question them.

without feeling gaslit or I mean one of the main things I've learned since I've been out is if you feel like something's not right and you're questioning like is this right and wait did he just say that and then you're you start catching yourself going oh well maybe he just had a bad childhood or you know you know making excuses for the person or the thing that's a that's a real red flag you really need to look at if you don't feel good with somebody and you don't even have to call it

a cult like for take that word out of the equation because it gets so overused is this a good dynamic like is this a healthy dynamic do i want to be here do i feel like safe and and heard and all the good things and it may you may not and it may be normalized to feel that way especially if you've maybe had a bad childhood and that's kind of normal to to feel less than or always trying to like get the approval little breadcrumbs from the person who's holding the power

Those are some examples. Fascinating. So, David, you do none of that to me. I mean, I'll just go on record. Don't breadcrumb me, Dana. Comedians are too aggressive and damaged in different ways, I think, to be gaslit. I'm sure we get in a way, but... Do you think that there are any... Is there any famous comedians that have been in cults that we know of? Hmm. Famous comedians. Was Martin Short... No, he's not a comedian. A stand-up?

Martin Short, I think just you start to get in a cult. Not Martin Short. We are joking. If you get in a situation where someone's the boss or someone is, you know, it's just like anything. You just get sort of swept up in something where everyone's doing it. It can happen. A cult is like using a hammer, a sledgehammer to say what it is. It's more like a lighter. There's just these warning signs. I think we all are.

Yeah. And if you have, if you're in show business, you're vulnerable and you have people who work with you. And I'll just say it's a, it's a peculiar dynamic. It's an interesting, you know, peculiar dynamic that you, um, hard to describe it, but show business has some, um,

some colorful characters. Oh yeah. Hollywood itself. What about, what about Saturday night live? Was it ever not culty, but like, was it, do you ever feel like you couldn't speak up or like, um, we're going to meditate after read through, um, your mantra will be Lauren. Um, it'll be groups. Then we'll face the sun and, and, and, uh, ask for forgiveness of our sins. Um, I don't come on my podcast and tell me everything. Uh,

No, I think that Lorne, I mean, he's dealing with a lot of comedians. Yeah. Fragile egos. And that we're supposed to poke holes in all the authority and everything and deconstruct society. So that would temper it a bit. But anyone who's a powerful boss, not Lorne, corporate boss, anybody can...

Try to create a cult of personality around them like Bill Gates did with Microsoft. Bill has to go away for two weeks and he reads 100 books. His brain doesn't work like you and all that stuff. It's not necessarily gone to tattoos and branding, but there's cultiness everywhere. That's why your podcast will last for as long as you want to do it. Until I die. Yeah.

Sarah, thanks for jumping on. Yeah, you look great. You're having a, I'm glad that you got out and, uh, and you're probably, uh, you've ruled out cults forever. Probably we can safely say so. I think so. Every now and then I, I, I still do yoga, but there's a lot of super, super culty yoga practices. And I just, I try to like, just stay like no dogma, just like hot, sweaty power yoga. No, just do the hour and get out.

Yeah. And I'm, I'm doing the research on NXIVM. I don't know. I started to get a little hypnotized into the good side of it. And so I'm pretty much glad you got out of it, but not totally. I'm sorry.

Well, the good stuff, part of my healing has been like, what was good? And then figuring out who invented it or who created it. Cause it wasn't Keith. I just thought for many years that it was Keith. So, you know, I could still do some of the things. Yeah. I hate power, mad people trying to control, manipulate people, narcissistic sociopaths. I'm going on record. Don't like them. I don't like them either. And there's a lot of them. There really are. And you just got to watch it because they look like normal people and they know how to act.

Yeah. Narcissists are, can be very, very clever and narcissists seek out empathetic people or non-narcissistic people. And then there's that codependent dance that happens where one side is beholden to the other. And so, yeah, it's everywhere. Scary. I have an episode to send you Dana, a

from Dr. Romney, who's a narcissist expert. We did a couple episodes with her and she's such a badass and explains exactly what you just said is in relation to cults specifically and domestic violence. Yeah. It's my childhood and probably David's child. It was full of some of this stuff. Go on. I'm sorry. Well, it's, it's nothing, you know, it's comedian. Um, Keith Reneva.

Which, by the way, Nippy always says the KR was Keith Richards. That's his joke. That's a good one to sell to people. I'm sure not everyone's seeing it.

Rolling stones is like a coat, you know, we're good. He's the happiest person in the world. That was Keith. Very happy. I'm taking Nippy to the Rolling Stones for his 50th birthday. Um, so we joke that the scar is KR, but I did have, I mean, Keith Richards, but I did have it removed just for the record. I had it taken off. I had plastic surgery a couple of years ago because it was like, you know, I just didn't want it there. Sure. Yeah.

I needed it for a little bit just to be like, hey guys, you know, hey FBI, this happened. And then I was like, yeah, I'm done with it. It's not fun. Moving on. No. All right. Thank you, Sarah. Well, thanks, Sarah. Good luck with the podcast. And send me that episode. You can get my email. I will for sure. I'd like to. Awesome. Thank you guys. Thank you for the great questions. I feel really taken care of. This has been a presentation of Odyssey Superfly. It's executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade.

Hope you liked it.