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Yes, I have actually stayed at Airbnbs from time to time. And truth be told, I do really like them. I'm being totally honest right now that I've had great experiences with them. Yeah. I mean, you can have your look at you go get your own place, get your own pool, your own living room. You're not going to walk in an elevator. You're not going to see people when you're walking around in your undergarments. Yeah.
Yes. And if you don't understand what we're talking about, you should go online. What we're saying is you have a house with a kitchen and a bathroom and it's just for you, tailored for you. You liked your Airbnb over a hotel. Yes. And I do think I've had relatives stay nearby and sometimes it's very nice for them to do an Airbnb and have a little house and they're not underfoot. The last thing you want is your house guest to say, excuse me, um,
Where would I find a towel? That's a toughie when it's... Because they're naked? Well, it's like the 1800th time you say, on the towel rack. Yeah. Thank you. Oh, I was going to look there. People don't even think hotels sometimes just go, hey, I'll go there, I'll get an Airbnb. So you won't regret it. You know, Dana, I think we have a connection. We've been friends for a long time. And for this episode of Fly on the Wall, we've partnered with eHarmony,
which isn't us. eHarmony is a dating app to find someone you can be yourself with. We are not dating. I want to clarify that. But the connection is what you want in a dating partner. Just someone like, if you found someone that listened to this podcast, that's somewhat of a connection. And then you sort of build on that. You want someone with some common ground. Yeah. It's not, look, if you want to connect romantically over, you know, super fly or fly on the wall, yeah.
It just makes us happy. You don't want to be watching The Godfather and the person next to you goes, this movie sucks. So dumb. Yeah. You want to connect on all issues and harmonize in life. Similar sensibility, similar sense of humor, and similar sense of sense. I don't like when they watch The Godfather and they're like, everyone in this movie is so old. I'm like, they're 40.
Watch 2001 Space Odyssey. Too much of this movie is in outer space. I don't like it. When do they land? When do they land? Why is that stupid red light acting so silly? Who's friends with a robot? We know dating isn't easy. That's why we partnered with eHarmony because dating is different on eHarmony. They want you to find someone who gets you, someone you can be comfortable with.
Yeah. I mean, the whole idea is you're going to take a compatibility quiz, helps your personality come out in your profile, which makes all the profiles on eHarmony way more interesting and fun to read. So I think this is the goal of dating sites, and I think eHarmony does it great. It's just finding somebody you're compatible with.
So get started today with a compatibility quiz. So you can find some and you can be yourself with. Get Who Gets You on eHarmony. Sign up today. Griffin Dunn is our guest today. He's been part of a...
Americana for many, many decades. Actually, his first giant movie was an American werewolf in London. That is a classic film. Such a cool movie. Yeah. And he did a lot of great movies. He's out with a memoir now. His father, Dominic Dunn famously would cover the OJ trial. He's had quite a journey in life. He'll talk about his deep, deep childhood friendship going into adulthood with Carrie Fisher and,
And we'll go over how he writes and creativity and just life as a celebrity. And he's a jack of all trades. He writes, produces, directs, writes, produces. I feel like I'm reading an ad. Writes, produces, directs, and acts. And he's a delightful person. Just incredibly real. Super likable. Light on his feet. A lot of fun. I got turned on him when I saw After Hours.
I'd seen American Werewolf also, but After Hours was such a cool movie by, what is it, Scorsese? Marty Scorsese. Yeah, Marty. So that's a big deal. So I think you're going to have a good time with him. We did. Here he is, Griffin Dunn.
- Hello, hello, hello. - Come in, Earth to Griffin. - Come in, I'm here, oh my God. - We do this for a living, see all this great light I'm in. - Look at this shit, you really thought this through. - Thank you for noticing that.
- Look at me, I'm told this isn't being filmed. So this is like a hair thing going on. - Oh no, I don't like it when you agree to go on a podcast and go, we're gonna do a little shooting. - Actually, I'm taking my hat off too. If you're gonna, you're brave enough to look like that. I'm gonna take my hat off. - Okay. - Your energy and vibe reminds me of David Duchovny. - Really? - Already? - Yes, because there's something about
Oh, I'm also a say on I do. I'm a medium. Also, just looking at all your stuff. I know you guys are both sort of smart, but you don't wear it on your sleeve. Well, thank you for that, because I you know, he's a fairly recent friend. I don't know if you notice he he gave a beautiful blurb for me on the book.
Oh. He was one of my very earliest readers. Blurred alert. He's an incredible... He was never an actor. Yeah. He would have been a great novelist independently of that. His novels are so good. Really? Yeah. Like, seriously good writer. He didn't need this acting shit at all. Well, acting kind of sucks, doesn't it? He's got more energy, Dana. This guy, Griffin, has more energy than the company. I feel. Um...
I don't know. You know, I'm trying to think of a trifecta because I was thinking the Texas trifecta, McConaughey, Woody and Owen Wilson. So if there's a third part to this, but acting sucks, we know that we had John Corbett on the podcast, Sex and the City Guy. And at the end, he
The end, he just goes, and he's an incredibly nice guy. He's very, very interesting and funny. But he said, I made the wrong career choice because I hate being told what to do. Yeah. But you direct too, though. I do. I do. But just going back to one more of doppelganger. We like to go everywhere. Yeah. Is the one that every time I look at this guy, I go.
he's not doing me, but I'm doing him or he's doing me. But I feel in the same thing as Steve Carell. I was thinking that before you said it. I feel it every time. And, you know, I stopped acting for a while. Then we'll get back to how shitty it is. But I stopped acting for a while. And then I kind of went and took a checkoff workshop by this guy.
pretentious Russian guy out of the Russian acting institute. Perfect. Who didn't speak a word of English. And he had a translator. And I did Uncle Vanya. And I went, oh my God, I got to get back to acting. At this age that I'm at now, I'm tragic and funny. Tragic and funny. I'm just born for Chekhov. And now Steve Carell's doing Uncle Vanya. Oh, wow. There is. But also with The Office and the whole thing. Anyway, I've always had a...
No, no, he would have done After Hours, potentially. And he would have been great in it. Not as good as you. No. And he's a good friend. Fucking After Hours. I think I smell a Golden Globe nomination. That was for you for After Hours. Oh. Yes, I did. I did get nominated. Yeah. That's when the Golden Globes was nine people from Europe.
You know who it was? It was like, it was after the Pia Zadora thing. It was a controversy. They gave her an award for winning. And it was clearly kind of bought by Menachem Golub. So when I went, it was so unhip. And my fellow nominees were like Jack Nicholson and one incredible person after another.
And no one showed except me and Jeff Daniels was at another table. And we're the only nominees in our category. We're going, what the hell are we doing here? And I'm at a table with just Warner Brothers secretaries who they were given. And they're so thrilled to be at the Golden Globes. Right. But it was considered a really tacky thing. And when they were announcing the nominees,
The camera guy, you know how they stick the camera so you see your face filled with anticipation, hoping you'll get it or pretending you don't care. The cameraman, I'm looking at the monitor while they're doing it. The cameraman is filming a guy who looks kind of like me. And the guy is so excited to be on camera. He starts waving, going, hi, like, hi, mom.
And the camera was right next to me and I just gave him a little kick. And if you watch it, you can see it on YouTube. The camera just goes to the right as the guy falls down. So a guy gets your doppelganger gets knocked over. And then did you have a speech prepared? Did anyone watch it then? It was the 85, right? It was on like, you know, channel nine. Yeah. Yeah. It was out of Winnemucca. Yeah.
Channel 9 and Winnemucca. I think Pia Zadora, I've only heard in Dennis Miller references, that's about it. But she did have that whole hubbub. Well, you know, she's actually a very sweet person. I met her, but you know, when she also on Broadway,
They had a when she was on Broadway, which is also kind of a paid for production a bit. I love it. On opening night, it was it was going so horribly. She was playing Anne Frank in Diary of Anne Frank. And at the very end, when the Nazis break into the apartment, someone yells from the audience, she's in the attic and the whole place falls apart.
Oh, I have a hot take for Griffin on theater. This is a new story just after this weekend, and I know he has a lot of thoughts. So, oh, Heather's going to laugh. The Lion King on Broadway, Dana. Yes. You've heard of this play. It's a play, Griffin. It's a musical we call it. I vaguely heard of it. Nathan Lane voiced in the movie. They have the auditions for...
What's the person Simba after all the singers come in, all the kids and all the super talents in town who gets the part? Kim Kardashian's daughter. Is she our Pia Zadora? She, she, she, she Simba. Yeah. She is 10 years old. Maybe she played it. She sang it. And, uh,
And it was probably she got a standing ovation. Hollywood, Hollywood Bowl this weekend, I guess. Wow. And there was a little bit of a hubbub going, wait, I don't remember her at the auditions. And everyone's like, well, my attitude toward that is no one ever asked to be born from a wealthy family or no one ever asked to have a famous dad. So I'm instantly rooting for her.
And I'm hoping that she was great because she didn't ask for this. She's just a kid and she's 10 and she's no, no one's going after the kid. It's more like the situation where is that detrimental for the kid to cut her? Oh, is it sort of child abuse?
I'm going to go to Griffin. I'm going to go to Griffin. I'm cheating this more like I'm David Susskind. Yeah. It's got to be a certain age. Go around Robin. Yeah, we go around. I'm going to Griffin to weigh in who, for our listeners don't know, grew up in a very asymmetrical household with massive Hollywood parties and celebrity and all that. So you might have something to say. Mr. Dunn, if you will. Yes, if you don't mind calling me that. Yeah.
I actually, you know, there's a whole, you know, we're constantly inventing new words to degrade people. And the latest one is Nipo babies. And my feeling about that is I don't think it should be an automatic thing. But if we denied...
uh, you know, people who were, um, just because they were related, uh, to, to someone. I mean, we wouldn't have Robert Downey jr. You know, we wouldn't have the, the bridges. Um, uh, you know, we, we'd lose out on so many Michael Douglas, Michael Douglas. Yeah. It only gets you so far. It gets you maybe in the room. Um, and you know, my, uh,
And it's also a brutal business. When I decided to become an actor, I was in my late teens. And my father, who had been a successful film producer or a successful television producer, a moderately successful film producer, but then had sort of imploded in his life by the time I entered. And I watched the business, the powerful agents in the studios cut him dead. So he...
He really couldn't as much as he wanted to help me. He didn't. He couldn't. You know, it was more detrimental at that point, almost. Well, wait a minute. You're saying Hollywood agents and managers, when the money dried up, were not still loyal friends. Is this what you're suggesting? Don't say that. You know, it's shocking, but they did not.
They did not stick by him. They did not lend him money. They did not offer him lots of opportunities. Was it only because he was doing less as careers go all of ours, it slows down at certain points. So they just kind of faded out. Yeah. He, he sort of, he didn't do anything wrong. Actually. He, he was like, he, he, he got sober years later, but, but he was really funny. And he,
But when he and he would when he would get high or stoned or something, he'd be really funny. But he might say something that would be really scandalous that would find himself in a gossip column and then get in trouble and be pulled off a movie. Will that happen?
I'm sure none of us can relate to that. And, you know, he just sort of imploded in his career and then got it back and reinvented himself as a writer later on once he got sober. But it was, you know, back to the, you know, the inheritance thing.
uh you know and uh nepotism and everything it's it's it only gets you so far um and the rest is yours to screw up you know right it's good and bad i guess it's yeah i mean one well
There's ways to go now. I don't know. Show business is very different. I'm going to make a bold statement, but you know, I would like someone gave him a hip hop manager, hip hop producer, and if they can dance a little bit and, you know, I mean, there's ways to manufacture it now. Yeah. Right. When we grew up, it was different, but just so people know your story, like,
So your dad became infamous for many reasons. And your book, I'm just curious, you must cover all this, right, in your book? I do. The Friday Afternoon Club coming out June 11th. You better. And you have quite a story. I mean, I saw last night, my wife and I watched one of your documentaries, thought it was brilliant. Jane...
Joan Didion documentary. Fascinating. And you directed that, right? I did indeed. She was my aunt. Yeah. So you're in an ecosystem of a lot of talented people. Yeah. And you fit in well. Tangled web. Thank you. Yes. My aunt and uncle, when I was growing up, were well-known writers. My uncle was John Gregory Dunn.
And then when my father sort of reinvented himself, he became what he always wanted to be, was a writer. And then he became a crime journalist for Vanity Fair, covered the biggest trials.
OJ, the Menendez trials, and he was a real strong presence in the courtroom and a courtroom pundit on. Oh, yeah. And Vanity Fair, all those articles. Can I ask you a question about that? Like, because people, a lot of people would say, I want to write, you know, so I'm just curious, what age was your dad when he
you know, he kind of went off the radar. He drove through Oregon and ended up in a cabin. I mean, it's really down and out. And then he started to send letters to you that were in New York, 10, 20, 30 pages long. And you tell that he was practicing how, what was his writer. So how old was he when he, he wrote that his first book? He was 50, 51, 52.
52, like, you know, he was not published until he was about 51, I think. And that was in Vanity Fair. And that was that was writing about starting pretty high. Yeah. Well, he was he he he came back to New York.
um, really just started over, you know, he was a, uh, um, a guy who went through a lot of money and, and started in New York, you know, in, in the eighties, uh, coming back to New York in really humble sort of circumstances and much small, a smaller apartment than my first apartment in New York. Um, and, but when he really found his voice was, uh, you know, tragically when, um,
You know, his daughter, my sister was murdered and he wrote about it. Tina, before he left for the trial, before we all left for the trial, he met Tina Brown, who was just starting at Vanity Fair to take over. And she said he was explaining how how scared he was and intimidated he was by the judicial system. We'd never been in a courtroom, certainly in these circumstances. And she said.
keep a diary, you know, a family's perspective of their first time, their abrupt awakening of the judicial system, you know, as interesting. Yeah. She said, keep a diary. And he did. And he wrote this, his very first published piece in his fifties was in vanity fair. And it was about what our family went through during the trial. And it was it's, it's a landmark piece in terms of victims rights and, and,
In court procedure and in injustice is an example of courtroom injustice. So from then on, he found his voice and he became the Vanity Fair crime correspondent covering these trials, always supporting.
With the victims in mind, he always thought of Nicole and the Brown family or Ilana Clarkson, who was killed by Phil Spector, always had that perspective. And David and I could relate to what I think you go into probably in the book, that the emotional impetus was he had a rough time with his dad or just a sense of being bullied. And David and I both experienced that, me specifically,
David, maybe he's Lamar. His nickname is Silver Spoon. No, but we both root for people fighting the bully. And you can tell that it was visceral with your dad. He did not hate bullies. I root too hard. That's why I loved him. I love reading him because he just hated the bullies. He really did. He really did. You know, when you are bullied and you're a child,
You grow up with a lot of fear around you. You grow up, you know, constantly nervous. And, you know, when he found his voice, he became fearless and just fought back at all those people, all those people who had the money, who had the power, who were always keeping him down. And it was an incredible transformation to see.
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That's $50 off with CodeFly at BlueNile.com. BlueNile.com. What a story. What happened to your sister and how your dad kept the diary and how, as a family, being there. It was public. That is beyond...
anything I could imagine because courtrooms I've been in them. They're weird. They're strange. Cold. People say crazy shit on that stand. You know, they're lying. And I didn't even know about paid liars. Everything comes out about your family and you don't want it. You don't see that coming half the stuff probably. Yeah. No, they, they, uh, the, they try to destroy the person that, uh, uh,
The one that was killed or raped or whatever. They tried to destroy the reputation of the very person.
They blame the victim. Like with me, I had a bypass. They bypassed the wrong artery. I'm fine. It happens. But they tried to say it was my fault because I had crazy anatomy in there. That was their only defense. Isn't that something? Yeah. Yeah. And so they blame the victim. But anyway. You know, what was particularly surreal for me, though, during the trial was in Santa Monica. And I was...
My whole family, we went every day to represent Dominique, my sister. On the days that I was not in trial, I was shooting a ridiculously funny comedy called Johnny Dangerously with Mike Keaton. Saw it. Mike Keaton. And who became a great, great friend of mine. And...
And I would go and I was playing Tommy, Tommy Doyle fighting D.A. and trying to catch the criminal. And I was like a Mickey Rooney character, you know. Oh, really? And like hyperactive or hyperactive. And then it was an incredible release to be able to.
which my family did not have to be able to put that aside and then just go and just be hilariously funny. Yeah. Funniest people on earth and who didn't, or at least they didn't pop my concentration by asking me where I spent my days off from the movie. Oh, great. And I was just, I had, it's, it's absurd, almost sinful to say, but I had so much fun making this movie and it just was such a release. And then I go,
Yeah. Such a bummer, the extreme opposite. Just walk into a courtroom and just... So schizophrenic. I go from 20th Century Fox to Santa Monica courtroom and do this back and forth. And such a... Because I watched the trailer again and I did see the movie and loved it. I loved it. What are you doing? Come on, get out of here. I know. And it was really balls out silly. It was really, really funny. Almost like Airplane or something. Yeah. I totally relate to...
you know, compartmentalization just sort of happens intuitively. You get your, get up on in the movie, you could be kind of sad in the trailer. So you get out there and then you see Joe Piscopo or Michael Keaton, there's your lines and you're doing ridiculous stuff. I mean, that is the dichotomy of those two things. It's hysterical. Yeah. Bizarre. Yeah. And I was very, very grateful and very lucky to have had that, you know, Michael Keaton is a blast too. He's super cool. It's the greatest. And he's probably, yeah, he was, he was where you are.
He was where you are. He was in a box on his zoom. We were about a month ago. Uh, yeah, he's about, yeah, I could see how you and him would just be, could talk for hours without even missing a telling stories. Yeah, no, no, we hit it off like right away. And, uh,
That was over 40 years ago. We've been really close friends ever since. He's funny as hell. Yeah, he's just funny. And you're the same way. Just no pretense. Yeah, loose guy. No sense of any awareness that he's Michael Keaton at all. So I was going to ask you, just pivoting around here, because I wanted to say to Michael Keaton what I thought
his superpower was, was that he's just really, really good thinking on camera. He's great at thinking. And we told him how the founder was his sleeper movie. But for you, I was just going to ask you, because you got in American werewolf in London, which I think is, I think it's a classic for a comedy film. Sure.
And you're in massive prosthetics. Was that the first time? Cause I love looking in the mirror and it doesn't look like me, but that was, is that your first time? That was, that was, uh, uh, baptized by fire. Um, Rick Baker, Rick Baker, the genius Rick Baker. He, uh, you know, when I, I never read for the movie, I'd never done in a movie that started in a movie, uh, maybe a small part here and there, but, uh,
The director, John Landis, didn't even audition me. We talked for about 10 minutes. I'd done nothing.
And he gave no. Oh, yes. Wow. Landis, who was probably still he was huge at that point. He would have the animal house. Yeah. The number one movie. Oh, my God. And so he talked to you in what way? Like he came to his office or. Well, if you know Landis, he did all the talking. I don't remember saying a thing. And all he did was ask me, are you claustrophobic?
I said, no, I would have said yes. I would have said no, even if it was yes. And so I figured it was a guy trapped in an elevator. He wouldn't tell me what the movie was about. And he gives me the part and he says, you're going to Los Angeles for makeup. Oh, I read the script, thought it was amazing. He sent a guy to my apartment, made him stand in the hallway and made me hand the script back.
And nine hours later. Yeah. I'm a slow reader. And anyway, I went to L.A. and then for a makeup test.
And they put my head in plaster with two terrifying straws. And that's what he meant about the claustrophobia. Yeah, it's terrifying. And you don't feel that way in your entire life depends on these two straws. And I know. Did you? Did you give a signal? You just were giving me a safe sign. I think they left the room and had lunch.
Because it's terrible. I've had it and I've had panic attacks. Yeah. But I held it. And then what happened was is that they get it on your head for people who don't know and they keep going. Then you can't hear. It goes all you can't see. Then it's shut in your mouth and there's just these two little straws. If someone closed those off, your light's out. Then what do they do? They fall out. Yes. And they're working on you
And they're kind of frantically working on you. And what you hear inside the thing is more. Yeah. So I thought they were panicked. Yeah. So then they redid it. And I said, guys, just talk softly. Like, let's do this here. So when I go ahead. So you do that. Then he puts on. Then they start to apply it. And Rick and.
each new layer yeah it's darker and don't want to look like a pussy in front of rick you do not and i eventually did because when i look at that wiggly vein on my neck and he's painting it and i looked at my face torn in half oh claude so yeah but it was the first transformation and the first application and when i saw that um
Some people love Halloween and they love to wrap their head cut off and hatchets in their head and everything. I never quite had that about the relationship to Halloween. Most people would have loved this, but I was...
I was kind of freaked out by it. I was like, wow, this is what I would look like if I died violently, really. Scary, scary. Yeah. You know, my mother has always had health problems and has had MMS. And I thought this is going to really upset her.
And so, you know, of course, people, once we were shooting, they wanted to take me into pubs and give people heart attacks. And I wasn't into it. I wasn't, I was there. I was, I don't know. But part of it, I mean, the scene that I was looking at yesterday, it's like, you're in all this thing and you look like a, I don't know, a werewolf zombie man. It's incredibly intense. It's,
It's not funny makeup. It's not comedic at all. But you're talking very real and casual. And I think that that's probably what Landis picked up from you, that you could be a real regular person. You wouldn't be theatrical. If you don't want to be, you're just not.
- Yeah, he would like this. - Basically, yeah. - He wanted the rhythm, the way I talk or something. - The casual looking that crazy and then like, you know, you're gonna have to, you're gonna be a werewolf in 24 hours. - I think that's exactly right. - And the transition that is still chilling. I think it was James Naughton. - David Naughton. - David.
And he turns into one. And I'd never seen anything like that in the movie. Just the muscle, the stretching and the sound. All natural. No CGI. That took, you know, David was, you know, prone. We're on all fours or, you know, for like a. Yeah. Oh, really? They applied hair by hair, you know, all over. Sick. You know, in a related story, it's not related at all.
Um, but I had to get that, that stuff on my face for a life mask. And, um, Dana, I did the same thing and they put it in the guy goes, some people really panic. I go, well, not me. Cause I'm like, obviously super tough. And then they get closer and they go, now we're going to the ears. And they kept telling me, are you okay so far? I go, yeah, yeah. Let's just get it over with.
And they go, well, some people, it makes them panic. And they literally like slowly put it like over my mouth and I go, take it off, take it off. Immediate panic, immediate. Like they just told me and I was all prepped for it. I couldn't even believe how fast my body changed. And my brain just said, I can't handle this. And then I had someone get me a valium from the car or a certain car. And then I took it right there. And I was like, I hope this takes effect within seconds because I'm
I couldn't believe how scared I was and how I had to get out of that thing. It reminds us of that Jeff Daniels debacle on SNL, but that's the scariest you can have. Do you know about the Jeff Daniels debacle? No, I don't. I don't. What happened? He got a... You know it better, David. I think you were there. He had a life mask put on, but they used the wrong...
They use real plaster, I think. They use real plaster instead of whatever they use for us. And they had to get the paramedics in there to get it off. Was this years ago? 80s, SNL, early 90s. Relax. 90s, Dana. Jesus. Yeah. It was when I was there. And I miss your show, Griffin, by a little bit. Dana missed it barely. And Daniel's was about 93, 94. Yeah.
And he said, they said, do not. He goes, I, he wrote down, I feel sick. And they go,
don't throw up or you'll die because you know if you throw up in your mouth it has nowhere to go no there's nowhere you're you're you're jimi hendrix so they couldn't get it off for hours um anyway i'm not gonna so i've got two that i want to well one is i read the excerpt from your book which uh i'll just say it i could tell you you really are a great writer i know you've written screenplays and stuff but now you have a memoir mm-hmm
And the excerpt that they released, the PR people, was all about you and Carrie Fisher, which was hysterical. I don't know if you want to just preview that a little bit. So it's walking such an interesting. We met when she was 15. I was 16. And and we lived some blocks away from each other. And we just became immediate best friends and just.
You know, we talked to each other in song, breaking into silly musicals whenever we'd have conversations. And, you know, when I moved to New York to be an actor, well, she she also introduced me to a girl. I don't think this is in the excerpt, but she introduced me to a girl that I eloped at the age of 17 to Tijuana and married.
Um, and she just wanted stories out of me. Um, and then I went to New York and we became roommates in New York and we lived in, um, interesting. We, well, we, we, I, I, my, my narrative of being in New York was to be a starving, uh, struggling New York actor who lived in the East village. That was what I was doing. Then Carrie came to New York to be in a, um,
in the chorus of a musical that her mother, Debbie Reynolds, was in. And I would always go backstage and, you know, oh, I knew all the stagehands while the show was going on and the lyrics to all the songs. And one night, Debbie said, I need you to, Carrie wants to live in New York, but I won't let her live alone. We have found an apartment for the two of you.
It's in a building called the Desartistes, which is a very fancy building on the Upper West Side. And I go, no, I'm a village guy. I was born to be in a village. Can't do that. But they were maids rooms in the Desartistes. And they weren't the big loft windows that it was famous for. And we lived in that apartment.
And we just had a ball. I was a waiter at Beefsteak Charlie's. I was a popcorn concessionaire at Radio City Music Hall where I would feed the camels with popcorn during the activity shows and walk onto the set, go to Studio 8H. There were tunnels that would lead there. I'd watch Saturday Night Live rehearsed. I'd wander onto the set of NBC Nightly News.
And it was just like a great job. But then Carrie got a job and actually acting, which is what I was hoping to do, acting in a movie. And she was going to have to go to London for months at a time. And I said, what movie? And she said, well, it's got a really stupid title. And it's not a very good script. You would hate it. You would have turned it down. I went, what's it called? She goes, it's called Star Wars. I said, Star Wars?
Is that a pass? Two words? One word? Star War? W-A? No, it's Star and then Wars. And it's, you know, well, I said, who's in it? Because Mark's somebody who's, yes, he's your age, but again, you would have turned it down. And Harrison Ford, you wouldn't know. And I did know Harrison because when he was a carpenter, he built my aunt and uncle's deck.
in Malibu and I would share joints with him and try to help him build the deck but I was too stoned to really be of any so Han Solo would get blasted and try to put a bookshelf together that's but he could do it I couldn't even yeah I didn't know difference between a you know measuring tape and a hammer and uh anyway she goes off and would call me while she's doing this movie in the middle you know she'd be as she was getting up to work I was I was dead asleep
And I go, how's it going? And she would just go on. I wear bagels on my head. I eat my ears. I'm surrounded by a big monkey. There's some little person in a trash can who follows us around. R2-D2. And we have ray guns that don't even have triggers. This movie is going to be such a flop. And so when she came back,
um there was a screening at the ziegfeld and there had never been any you know uh test screenings or anything for this movie so but somehow people seem to know about this movie and you know science fiction people like came from other planets to come to see this thing and from the moment it started with that crawl yeah we knew you know movies will never be the same
Yeah. And, you know, when I deal with in the book, too, is that that point that happens in many friendships of people in this business where one person just hits it so big time. And I'm still a waiter at Beefsteak Charlie's, you know. Were you guys buddy-buddy or were you dating? Oh, no, no, no. We were always platonic. Although...
Go ahead. Never mind. Continue. It was an accidental... Okay. It's more like it. Yeah. It was just a brief period. She just needed some help in a particular area. But you're a way... And...
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It's a lot less work. As you know, cracking them open can be a little bit of a job. Less cracking, more snacking is what I say. That's what I say. That's what you say. And I'm going to use that when my wife goes to the store. Wonderful pistachios. No shells. Flavors come in a variety of award-winning flavors, including chili roasted. Honey roasted. Mm-hmm.
Salt, sea salt, vinegar, smoky barbecue. Sea salt and pepper is one I like the most. And I'm going to try this jalapeno lime. They don't have a red, red necky flavor just yet. Yeah. Look at him there. Red, red necky loves pistachios. I like to crack things open and put them in my mouth.
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You're a waiter at Beefsteak Charlie and she's blowing up globally. Like, yeah. The phenomenon. And then, you know, when you see someone when that happens, suddenly the phones just never stop ringing. And the quality of friends become more and more famous. And, you know, I would come back from Beefsteak Charlie's with, you know, wearing a little apron with my tip. Beefsteak on you. I go into my bedroom and there would be, you know,
James Taylor, who's breaking up with Carly Simon, crying and all these, you know, the Eagles and all these people. I'm taking out my quarters. Glenn Fry can give me a five if I give you a hundred quarters. But it was, it was, you know, we had to adjust to that.
And then she does Blues Brothers. We won't talk about her, but, you know, what a blast. What a fun. But then you had such a friendship that I'm assuming it didn't it change, but it didn't really change. She's still like you were her muse. You were her buddy. Absolutely. I mean, you know, I changed because I was so passionate.
Bitter. Bitter. A bitter, repetitive, angry, ugly soul of an actor. Yeah, an actor. That's all of us. And I only wished her ill will. Well, also, sometimes when you get famous like that, you need some people that you just know casually because you miss the normal, normal, boring parts that are just fun to hang out with someone and
And I'm sure everyone is like a surfacy show, busy friend after that. They don't know what's going on. You know, and I'll tell you if you know someone, I'll just insert this, you know, someone before they're famous and you're really human with them and nice to them and actually do a favor for them or whatever. And then they become really famous. They never forget. Like you knew Carrie went, so you were not late to the lunch. I was not late to the lunch. And so, you know, we were, um,
you know, we had the same DNA, we had the same sense of humor. We had the, you know, um, you know, her life changed. I made adjustments once I, quite honestly, I, it took me, uh, garnering a certain amount of success of my own, um, before I, uh, you know, started not having those feelings, you know, not comparing myself, not, um, of course, I could just relax and get out of my own head, you know? Um,
But, you know, we picked up. She was always the same with me. It was always on me. And then, like, this was just sort of interesting because the way this person affected the culture. So you do. Who's that girl? Mm hmm. In 87. Madonna. With Madonna. And you could see the influence of her extrapolate now. But this was her first movie.
And she was new and you were, you done after hours. You did it. So you were like the bankable one and you got, they need an anchor with her. You're the film actor. Yeah. I was a film actor. They wanted to have someone who acted with her, but as far as fame, uh,
um they did not need me on the marquee i have never i've never to this day seen anyone so famous uh well peak madonna is it's hard to it was on it was unreal and she had such grace and humor and everything but i mean we had to reloop every exterior shot because of the helicopters that were hovering um they were there to sean penn then as well she was she wasn't okay
Double whammy. Did he ever beat you up? What? Did he ever beat you up? No, but I kept thinking, I would imagine that would happen. It'll happen. She is a real flirt. And I was open to possibility. I beat him up on Saturday Night Live. So we'll talk about that later. You did good. Good. In character. Yeah, of course. But there were those long lenses that I would see in my peripheral vision.
for months after the movie was shot. I mean, everywhere you look, there was a lens somewhere from some location. And a certain amount of hysteria. It didn't look like fun to be that
that famous was it hard was it harder to shoot she seems cool i've seen her yeah yeah totally cool uh and she seems like pretty light pretty fun even in the middle of that it's probably just goofy but it's very hard movies are tough anyway i think people understand like you're cramming lines you're trying to get things done you're losing the light any distractions are just so tough to deal with on top of you're missing a day
Yeah. And then we had, you know, mountain lions that we had to deal with in L.A. You know, no, no, no. On the set, the character. Oh, OK. They were Patagonian fields, but they were big ass cougars. And there were five of them in each in degree of temperament.
So the cuddly one was number five. You know, when he came on the set. But number five, they'd need if they wanted one to growl and look menacing. And then all the cougars were in between. And so if we were with number five on the streets of New York,
or any of the cougars for that matter, there would be snipers, New York City cop snipers on all the rooftops and then nets to keep in case the cougar made a run for it. And then one time they brought number one to the wedding scene. And we all knew number one. We love number one. It's so great. And then number one's coming in and somebody goes, and the cougar,
It's on a location in a house. Takes his paw and cuts a sofa in half.
And we go wrong Cougar, wrong Cougar. Oh yeah. It wasn't the right numbers. Yeah. I can see that happening. Plus the Cougar, they want to get an acting. They got to deal with this shit, you know? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I blame them. Did you, did you go through a phase? I'm just curious, this transition where you get famous for a moment and what happens is all of a sudden, um,
girls like you let's put it that way yeah in a different way more girls sort of interesting i'm not saying you act that on whatever but it's sort of well your first blush of fame was that after um the uh well that was sort of after after werewolf where i yeah got like fan mail and also girls finding out where i worked
um beef steak charlie showing up but they know i moved on a little bit you threw that apron in their face that was weird when that came up um when that movie came out you know i also to produce movies so i then had an office when that movie came out um at uh uh
On 57th Street with my production company. And so girls would come to the production office, but there's a different kind of fangirl in horror movies than there are, say, I did French, if I did Truffaut films. Very different. So, you know, a lot of girls with things with hoops in their noses and studs in their lips and
you know, half-shake heads. We've been to Comic-Con. Yeah, you get to look. That's right. Did people try to come to the set when you were with Madonna, or was there no set visits? Yes. They didn't care back then, did they? You know who came to our set was this unbelievable scumbag
- Dana Carvey? John Lutz? - I think he's running for president. - Oh, not Trump. - He was shooting in front of his building. And this man, he's got orangey long hair covering some sort of spot. - Dana's gonna sound like him in one minute. - I have no idea who it could be. - So he comes down in front of his building and he just wedges his way
onto the set and brings his own photographer to have a picture. Send me through. There's a picture of me, Trump, Madonna, and Dan Aykroyd. Who also came to the set the same day. Love it.
- We're coming in, we're coming in, bringing in any of the cougars you want. I've got no fear of cougars and I can talk to a cougar. I've dated a couple of cougars. Anyway, there's 3,482,000 American citizens do Trump at this point. - I love it. I was waiting for that. You took too long to figure that out. - So you early on, I mean, I don't know how you were informed by seeing Hollywood from your perspective growing up and everything. You early on were producing.
You ended up directing Meg Ryan and Matthew Broderick and I'm just Diane Lane. So I, it seems to me that you saw the whole dance of hot, not hot, medium, hot. They want you every day ago and you, you've worked consistently for 40 years. Incredible. So are you kind of, do you, are you Zen about show business at this point? I mean,
Um, well, how has your attitude changed toward it? Good, bad or indifferent? Well, I mean, I've been through all the colors you described. I've, I've been, uh, you know, I'm just like, I, I, I, I'm experienced like early, early success before I could truly appreciate it. I finally appreciate it. And I'm at my, my, my stock has dropped and I'm not there. And then, uh,
I do something else and I'd make a choice of like, when I did have heat as an actor, I then decided to produce a movie I wasn't even in. I'd be in a movie that was supposed to be like the Madonna movie, supposed to be a huge hit, turns out to be a flop. And then I produce again, then I go, well, I'm going to become a director then. And that goes great.
And they just, I've been writing the ups and downs all the way through. But when I was writing the book, I actually had to like take my entire life, career, trajectory through all its phases. And I kind of came to the end of like going, oh, all these things that I used to kick myself for, I'm so glad they happened. I mean, each one was like an experience I actually did learn from. And I can look back and,
even though I'm looking forward as well, but when I did look back while writing the book, I was actually really pleased with how everything turned out. Of not having a real game plan, or maybe there was a plan afoot, but I knew I was the kind of person who wasn't comfortable just being settling into one particular aspect of storytelling, of just being an actor, or
just being a producer. Um, so that sort of served me well in the long run. It just didn't feel like a short run. Yeah. And in recent times you did, this is, yeah, this is us, uncle Nikki, you know, like intense drama and funny at the same time. And so you, you kind of have this, you know, you're like, you could play drama or you can be funny.
Yeah. Yeah. But it's interesting to write a memoir. Was it nerve wracking in a way when you started? Like what's the discovery process? What was the painful to write certain parts and other parts like, man, that was an awesome time. Or I guess you just have wisdom now or, or perspective. Is that what we get? I've always known that I had a lot of funny stories that either happened to me or happened to family members that I grew up with then, you know,
really outrageous and many very after hours and you know in my personal life and so i would always kind of keep a little log of like i gotta remember that i gotta remember much like you guys do and you know yeah and bits and so i thought um i thought when i came to write a memoir which i always kind of thought in the back of my head i eventually would
I thought it would be a sort of a series of really funny anecdotes of David Sedaris type me talking one day and not have it be chronological, have it be almost anecdotal. But then I thought, no, that's kind of a cop out. Just start at the beginning.
And then I realized the beginning wasn't the beginning of my life. It was the beginning of my grandparents and great-grandparents. So I started way back in how the Mexican Revolution affected my mother's side and the Irish famine affected my father's side. And I just went chronologically. And with that came...
You know, we were talking about my father was very bullied as a child and, you know, his painful childhood memories. And then my mother's being growing up on a ranch on the border of Mexico with her father absent during World War II. And, you know, kind of bringing them up up until I was born. And it just sort of turned into...
an actual memoir. I call it a family memoir because it's not just about me. It's, you know, the biographies of everyone in my family. So it was, it wasn't painful. It was, sometimes it was so exciting. I'd be acting in something and I would,
when the camera would be turning around, I'd go back to my dressing room and I just knock off a paragraph. I could not wait to get back to it. Um, cause it was like, I was bringing my family back alive. You know, only my brother is the only person left out of my immediate family. And, um, you know, who I spoke to before I, uh, wrote a word, I really wanted his, his blessing, which he gave me. And, um,
So I, it was like having my family with me. It was, it was more difficult to finish it than it was to write it. Cause I, I really loved the company of, of these people. I really, I really admired all their struggles. I'd like to do it. I just think writing, I've only done a few things when president Bush one died, the New York times asked me to write an article. You know, I did it with my wife. She's,
She knows about grammar. She went to Catholic school. She's a great editor and a great bounce. But it can be exhilarating to write a sentence like in the excerpt I read was laugh out loud funny when Carrie Fisher is asking you about your sex life or your ADD. So that's kind of a thrill, right? When you're writing is rewriting all these cliches. But when you get a great paragraph, like that's it.
Or if you want poignancy, how do I end that thing? Yeah, I landed it. And it's immersive. It's just you. Did you run it by your wife or do you have a confidant or David Duchovny asked to read it? I gave it to David pretty early on. Oh, okay. And I had a wonderful editor at Penguin who published the book, a guy named John Burnham Schwartz, who
It was a novelist that I, by coincidence, I'd read his novels before. I didn't even know he was an editor. But I liked his writing so much. And I learned a great deal from him. But I did, I gave early copies. You know, a great friend of Kerry's is Beverly D'Angelo.
and ours and sweetheart. And so I gave her, she's a hilarious person. And I gave her like the Carrie chapters to make sure I got it right. And, you know, I mean, that was one of the most fun parts because I always knew the book would be dealing with the tragedy. We,
you know, the, the trial and a lot of stuff coming up, but they also knew it would be funny. And especially by a channel carry. And Beverly said, God, man, you've just got her. It was like, she was there in the room with you. So that gave me confidence, you know, homes.com knows that when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or condo. It's about the home. And what makes a home is more than just house or,
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Speaking of funny stuff, just we don't have the all day, but we love to. This is so fast. It's just you're after hours. It's a big movie. Martin Scorsese. You can talk to that if you want, because that seems he'd already done Raging Bull, which is, you know, and then you're on SNL. You know, it's kind of a thing in Hollywood in those days. I was there. I arrived six months later, I think. Yeah. You were in March. I arrived in March.
I premiered in October. So, um, I don't know, just, it must've been, I mean, your monologue was so quirky. Yeah. I didn't ever say anything quite like it where, cause I was thinking you're playing it very real from, I'm really excited to be here. Just some people. And you can, it's on YouTube.
And then it's clear you're kind of nervous. You're looking a little sweaty. You're starting to kind of itch your head and clumps of hair come out. It's just really building. And you go, is it me or is it hot in here? And then you're drenched in sweat.
And that's quirky enough. I thought, okay, that's a great monologue. And then they bring out a surfboard and you play Wipeout with one hand with such a non sequitur. How did that happen? Well, you know, as you know from when you have the first time the cast meets the host, you don't have any special activities that you were really good at. You do accents and all that. I said, well, I know how to play Wipeout one-handed. I just threw that out. I didn't... Throw in the monologue. Yeah.
And that's a drum solo from the 1960s. And so I, but, but I would also talk to Lauren about, you know, my monologue, my opening monologue, you know, and I was kind of nervous about it. He goes, Oh,
Well, you know, all the guests, all they do is talk about their opening monologue. Well, that's the most important part of the show. It's just an intro. We don't care. Take the pressure off. We don't care. Because every guest, I'm so, you know, like just so tired of it all. He's had it, yeah. All these hosts. He had it back then.
Yeah, exactly. He's got another 50 years. He was burnt out 50 years ago. And, um, so, uh, I didn't know somehow that evolved into, um,
Just being the most nervous guest in the history of SNL. And they had a, they put, you know, things in my hair. Oh yeah. What? Yeah. It was a guy off camera, like a watering can, you know, pushing. It's always good to get soaking wet right before you're doing a whole night of sketches. Well, that's what's so fun about it is like, yeah, you must, you must know this. I've seen it happen to me in times.
all you guys wear the dress is disastrous yeah yes and you go my god
um how is this ever gonna work in a couple you don't want to go back out anytime just tap out just like let's just disappear and um and then for some reason it all comes together wait i have a big question for you were you there i this is we talked to lovitz yesterday lovitz told me you were in this sketch with david wayans where he got fired so is that true that's pretty it's totally true he we were doing like a scarface kind of a thing and i was doing a
like a Pacino Scarface thing. And we did the dress and he's the cop interrogating me. And, you know, where's the, where are the drugs kept? Where's, you know, when's the shipment coming in or whatever it was. And,
suddenly and once we're shooting it's where the drugs when's the shipping coming in and there's a whole lisp involved i'm going well that's on the air show right live yeah yeah and i guess i guess i didn't get the rewrite on that um there's such chaos between dress and air you're like they definitely forgot to tell me they definitely completely forgot that i didn't know or i didn't notice i don't know um and uh
Apparently, as soon as he got in the wings, it was like, you know, go home. Really? Oh, wow. Yeah, I wasn't privy to it. I didn't know. I didn't actually know until I read it in the book. I thought you fired him.
Yeah. Damon Wayans is a brilliant comedian who, you know, he went on and did fine. Yeah. And living color. What was he probably thought? Yeah, I should go do another in color. And he proved himself a brilliant just so we get that out. I'm just curious what I because I was possessed and still impossessed by Al Pacino's performance.
in Scarface, literally. How did you do that? Did you look at tape or was it... - I totally looked at tape and I just did just, I was really loud, just like him. - Oh, when the yelling part, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - I fucking kill you, I kill you, you know. - Yeah, he was loud sometimes, Dan, in just normal scenes,
I think I remember this goes a little louder and, uh, over Steven Bauer, who was kind of seems quieter. It's an operatic performance. You know, I guess people call that, but I, I, I think I've heard it's his favorite film. I, by the way, I'm always curious with film actors, like in you as a kid or now, or then like, what are the people who kind of you looked up to, or just, you know, I can tell you a second. Um, uh,
It's always been from the moment I saw The Graduate, which I was too young to see, but somehow got on the theater and saw it. I looked at that guy. I looked at that guy, Justin Hoffman, and I went, I'd never seen an actor like that in a movie and also be so nervous and so funny and so all over the place. I thought, and then I found out he grew up blocks from me in L.A. and moved to New York to be an actor.
Boom, that's what I'm going to do. And when I...
you know, when you grow up in LA, uh, except Brentwood, your driver's license is the most important day of your life. And that happens on your birthday and your 16th birthday. And so on my 16th birthday, I wake up and I got to go to the DMV to get my license. And there's nobody home, not one adult. My, my mother's gone or whatever. So I get in the car and my family station wagon, I drive myself to the DMV and, um,
The instructor goes, guys, give me a test. Go, is your chaperone here? Oh, she's in the bathroom. All right, fine. Go. I finished the test. I pass. I need your chaperone to sign this. I go, I don't know where she is. Never mind. I get in the car. Greatest day of my life. I'm so excited. I'm leaving Montana Street outside the DMV in Santa Monica. And I red light and a car comes six inches, almost smashing into me.
And the driver is screaming at me, calling me a motherfucker. I'm looking at the veins in his neck. And my eyes travel up, and it's Dustin Hoffman. No. And I just smile. I'm going, oh, my. What the fuck are you doing? Wow. And I went, I'm moving to New York. I can't wait.
Wow. Love it. Love Dustin. He was a major. I watched that movie six weeks ago. My wife and I are, we will watch certain movies, you know, every few years. And that one is so brilliant. I think I've seen that movie more than any other movie.
um ever nothing no mike nichols and dust i mean nope no one captures the the way you feel about your parents when you're in your 20s early 12th and they seem like bobbling drunken fools it's so amazing all right well griffin thank you so much the book is the book is the friday afternoon club it comes out june 11th
And just if you've listened to this podcast, I'm hoping you will get excited to go
uh, read this book. Cause you're a great storyteller verbally. Did you, did you do the audio on tape? I did. I did. It was kind of, uh, amazing, uh, to read your entire life in four days. Um, I'm going to try to get the audio book and start walking and, and go keep walking until I, you finish. You will look up. We'll be in San Francisco. Yeah.
All right. Thanks, buddy. Anyway, such a pleasure to meet you. Good luck to you. I love you guys. You guys are great. I'm so honored and thrilled you had me on. This has been a presentation of Odyssey. Please follow, subscribe, leave a like, a review, all this stuff, smash that button, whatever it is, wherever you get your podcasts. Fly on the Wall is executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Jenna Weiss-Berman of Odyssey, Charlie Finan of Brillstein Entertainment, and Heather Santoro. The show's lead producer is Greg Holtzman.
