Bill Thrasher
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First Person is produced in cooperation with the Far East Broadcasting Company, who rejoice in the stories of changed lives through the power of Jesus Christ. Learn more at febc.org. I think everyone is just to embrace what we have. It's a very turbulent time that we live in right now. We never know what could happen tomorrow. But Christ is on the throne. He's building His church, and God wants us to be alive.

Welcome to First Person. I'm Wayne Shepherd, and my guest now is professor and author Dr. Bill Thrasher.

Bill's story of faithfulness to God and his teaching on prayer is what we'll be exploring as we meet him coming up in a moment. If you can't stay with us for the next few minutes, please take the time to listen online at FirstPersonInterview.com where this program and hundreds of others are all archived for on-demand listening. That's FirstPersonInterview.com. And there's the option of using our free smartphone app to download and listen to interviews. The app is called First Person Interview and you'll find it easily in your app store.

Dr. Bill Thrasher is a beloved professor at the Moody Bible Institute in Chicago, where he has served many years, but he's also the author of numerous books on Christian living and prayer, including A Journey to Victorious Praying and the latest, How to Resurrect a Dead Prayer Life. Bill came to the studio recently for this conversation, and I asked him exactly how many years he's been teaching at Moody.

This is my 44th year. I came in 1980. I remember when you came. Yeah, I was on staff at that time. Right. Yes, I remember that well. And I remember you came from down south, and I thought, what's this guy from Alabama coming all the way to cold Chicago? Yes. Well, I'd never experienced those kind of winters before, but it's been a very special time. I remember when I

uh, was they fly you up for a house hunting trip or, well, they even flew it for an interview first, but for the house, for the, for the interview, I remember, um, the president would be part of the interview too. And, uh,

He would, I remember him saying this, he said he didn't know any organization that touched the world exactly like Moody Bible Institute. And so it's been a great privilege to be there. I remember when they flew me for the house hunting trip, they said, well, I was single. And they said, where would you like to live? I said, oh, I'll just live on campus. Oh, we don't have a place for a faculty member on campus.

Wheaton was the only suburb I'd ever heard of. And I came out here and... You ended up at Wheaton Center, didn't you? I remember that. That's exactly right. And you know, in the great mercy of God, there's two 20-story buildings there. They sort of look out of place there in Wheaton. But I lived on the second floor. And on the 19th floor was Dr. Stephen Ofert. Oh, wow. Dr. Stephen Ofert, you know. And I'd read a book about...

called Silhouettes, way out of print even then, but about godly women behind godly men. And the mother of Bill Bright, the wife of Bill Bright, the mother of Billy Graham. But out of all the chapters, it

It was Heather Oldford, the wife of Stephen Oldford, that hit me more than anyone. And he started also the ministry as a single man and how he trusted God to provide for him a wife. And he sort of became a mentor. And, of course, as the years went by, God provided a wife for you, a lovely woman. You've been married all these years and have, I think you said, three boys? Three boys. Two are married and five grandchildren. Wow. It was my first eight and a half years were single at Moody. And then in 1988, I married and...

Penny, Penny Bauer. How'd you meet Penny? Um, it was a spring break and, um, I went to visit a friend at church and, uh, and she was working there where he wasn't. And, um, uh,

She doesn't even remember the date. But God struck me saying, man, I met somebody special. And so anyhow, I trusted God to allow our paths to cross again. And less than a week later, I got a phone call. I'd been invited to the surprise birthday party. And they went. Who was going to be there? And there was five people, and she was one of them. So I remember. Wonderful. That was the beginning. It was a long process, God drawing us together. We put that in a book, Believing God for His Best, How to Marry Singleness and Contentment. Mm-hmm.

But that was, she's been a great provision of God for me. So I praise God for that. Beautiful story.

So coming from Alabama, or growing up in Alabama, when did you come to know the Lord? Tell me that whole story. Well, that was at a – I was age 13. I was raised in a denominational church, and I think people my parents' age perhaps knew the Lord. The gospel was not clear, but Billy Graham came to Crampton Bowl. That's a local football stadium there in Montgomery, Alabama, in Alabama.

I was 13 years of age, and I came forward that night. He had canceled a European vacation to come, and he came by presidential order, I learned later, in one of his books. Lyndon Johnson called him up and says, look, your gospels only think they can do anything for the racial crisis there. Wait a minute. President Johnson called Billy Graham and said what?

that your gospel is the only thing that can do anything for the racial crisis there in Montgomery, Alabama. I want you to come and have a crusade. That's one of the untold stories of history, isn't it? Right, right. And he was there. Of course, you know, his crusades were integrated from the beginning, and that was different than the 50s and 60s South. But I heard the gospel that night, and that was, I think, my conversion. And I read the Bible every day after that. It didn't significantly grow until...

I graduated from high school and went in the Air Force Reserve, and then I went to Auburn University. It's a state university there in Alabama. I pledged the social fraternity that my brother had pledged. And one day I wandered into the room of a fraternity brother.

very different than most fraternity brothers. They're on state universities and secular campuses. He had pledged that fraternity to lead people to Christ. When I walked into his room, he began sharing this little blue booklet that Crewe used, Have You Made the Wonderful Discovery of the Spirit-Filled Life? And that's what sparked. I said, wow, there's a resource that I don't know anything about. We recited the Apostles' Creed every Sunday. I believed in the Holy Ghost, and that's all I knew. I didn't have any...

But my life was being blessed in a sense outwardly. But inwardly, I was full of fears and anxieties and certainly not in any way successful inwardly, even though outwardly it would have looked good. And his roommate was moving out and so was mine, so I ended up rooming with him for a year. That's what God used to draw me to a real surrender of my life to the Lord, ultimately call me into the ministry of

Robert Buster Holmes was his name. Again, God sent a person at the right time. You know, anything we ever accomplished, we owe totally to the Lord and usually somebody God used. Every step of progress, we owe totally to the Lord and somebody he used. Yeah.

You said you began to read the Bible after that Billy Graham crusade. How do you account for that hunger to get into the Word? I mean, a lot of new believers maybe have it, but it's not sustained for very long. Yes. God did put in my heart a desire to read God's Word. I'm not sure I understood a lot what I read, but it certainly built in me something of a consciousness of wanting to do right. I didn't have any vision of really being

my life as a, as a ministry to others and so it really didn't significantly grow but, um, God did put in my heart a thirst. Now, that was beginning to wane and, uh, that was beginning to wane as I went through latter high school years and, uh,

I'm not sure why I joined the Air Force Reserve. That was six months active duty. I graduated first in my class in high school, so I knew I wanted to go to college. But for some reason, I wanted to go right into the Air Force Reserve, and so I did that. Went to Lackland Air Force Base there in a hot July. Do you see God's hand in that? God's hand definitely was in that in the sense of, you know, I –

I saw in that six months, actually, I didn't see the world. I was stationed in Montgomery, Alabama, in Maxwell Air Force Base. Pretty close to home. Pretty very close to home. But I saw the emptiness of people looking. Their life was going to the club on Friday night, and that was no purpose. And so it prepared me to have that real surrender of my life to the Lord. So God used it, and...

It prepared me for that providential meeting with Buster, and praise God for that provision. Actually, that was in the 70s, and there was revival going on. Yes, sure. Great revival going on, and maybe it touched you too, but there was many, many people thrust into the Lord's work. I've gone back to my university and spoken, and...

There are many people that were sent into the Lord's work that time. In fact, there was a reunion of our Campus Crusade for Christ crew ministry. You didn't go to Expo, did you? I did. Did you? I went to Expo 72. Yes, I sure did. I read about it. I never got to go. Yes, yes. In fact, that was a week, and I went there, and at the last minute, ended up staying five more weeks.

That was the first time I'd ever had any kind of formal training in the Bible. It was an Institute of biblical studies that campus crusade for Christ put on. And I had some of the teachers. That was my first exposure to, to Dallas seminary. And the guy I room with there in that IBS, they had called it Institute of biblical studies. He was so gung ho. He had, he was from the Citadel. It's where he'd gone to school and he was going to go to Dallas seminary. So we went there and I don't know what I thought about. I sure didn't look at myself as somebody that would go to seminary. I don't know what, but I remember meeting somebody there, uh,

he says, oh yeah, we have all kinds of people, people, um, that come here, uh, to seminary. So I said, well, I guess I fit in that category somewhere, but that's where that was initial thought. And obviously God did. I wanted to go right into the ministry. I, after college, I wanted to be involved in the campus ministry that had touched my life. That's what I yearn to do. And, uh, my parents, I had no problem with me going in the ministry. They did say, I think you need training. And, um,

So we had a relative that knew somebody at a particular school. And so we drove down there to that relative's house. It was about 100 miles south. And

Sure enough, I talked to him, and he says, yeah, you need to get some training. I remember being mad the 100 miles. I said, well, that was just a plant for my parents. Because I just struggled. I said, well, it seemed like the more a person knows, the less excited they are about it. Why would I want what they had? I want to go right into ministry. But I desperately needed that. I desperately needed that training. And that was the advice God gave me.

And so training lasted a long time. I went after – I did an internship. Now, it's so wonderful talking to somebody like you that has such a vast history. I worked under Ben Hayden. Ben Hayden, Chattanooga, Tennessee. Yeah, there you go. Another radio man, a pastor and preacher. Yes, Changed Lives was his radio program across that neighborhood. I was an intern under him for a summer.

I think it was only him turning he ever hired. And he was, he just had one daughter. So he started treating me like a son. And, uh, I learned a lot from him. Um, it was, and that was before I went to seminary. And, um, remember him saying, he says, you know, learn what you need to do at seminary. And, but remember just, you look to God, uh, about, he has a unique way for each of us to communicate God's word. And so you look to God. And so he put, he was gave me some wonderful fatherly advice. In fact, he,

In the early years, he would come to Moody sometimes and speak. And so we connected a couple of times. He said that he's with the Lord now. But after that, I did go to Dallas Seminary. And I was there for – it was a four-year, 120-hour program for the masters. And I did that and then was encouraged to go into the doctoral program. So I went into the doctoral program. So not wanting to go to seminary, it lasted a long time. It was six years there in Dallas.

and then God in his mercy. I also wanted to be a pastor or a missionary. Those were the warm-hearted people. They wanted to be pastors and missionaries. The cerebral type wanted to be the professor. I felt like I wanted to connect with the warm-hearted people, but God did. There was a dear older student. He was a couple years ahead of me, and he planted a vision in me of being a professor and discipling students, and

And so that was indeed what God did. We'll continue talking with Dr. Bill Thrasher on First Person, and we'll talk about prayer coming up in a moment.

Here's Ed Cannon on the Vision for FEBC's weekly podcast. The primary purpose of Until All Have Heard, of course, is to share the experience that FEBC has because we have staff on the ground in so many oppressive places. But in addition to that, we're trying to speak to you in a way that only the kind of testimonies you'll hear from around the globe can do. Discover how the gospel is making a difference around the world.

Search for Until All Have Heard on your favorite podcast platform or hear it online at febc.org. My guest is Dr. Bill Thrasher. Bill is a longtime beloved professor at Moody Bible Institute in Chicago. I think you said 44 years. Many books you've written, including on the topic of prayer, which is your classic work, I feel, Bill.

I watched you online as you spoke in chapel at Moody recently, and you talked about prayer. And I'll never forget the line you said. I think you said you put it in your Bible that when I try, I fail, but when I trust God, he succeeds. Right. I don't think I'll ever forget that. Yes, yes. That was a quote from one of my professors. Is that right? And so, well, it's been a great privilege to in some way sort of

what God has done in my life. I've written about 10 books, but it was usually it's things that just God has worked in my life and gave me the privilege of sharing it.

I'll have some questions about prayer in a moment here, but I want to go back and just tell you, it's so encouraging to hear the bits and pieces of a person's life and see how God weaves it together. It's the story of everybody who joins us on First Person. When you look back over it, you may not understand at the time, but when you look backwards, you see how God orchestrated the whole thing. That's very true in your case. Absolutely. Absolutely. How do you get young people to understand that? Well, it can almost...

You know, some of the greatest gifts God's given me are prayers he has not answered. And like I said, I wanted to go right into the ministry. And he had me, you know, wait. And I didn't want to go to seminary. And he had me go six years to seminary. And so God is letting him rule and overrule. He is a better master for our life than we are for ourselves. Of course, you've experienced that in your own life. If we've just rehearsed some things, it's God's work in your life. And here now...

be involved in so many things and so many ministries all around the world. So, it's hard. You couldn't have written that script. Yeah, yeah. What does Proverbs 16, 9 say? You know, a man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps, right? Right, right. It's so true. Yes. Well, I rejoice just in God's provision and God's work in your life, and that brings great joy to me. That brings great joy to me. And yours does to me. So, we're a mutual admiration society here today. Yeah, yeah.

Tell me about the latest book here. You've got one copyrighted. Yes, How to Resurrect a Dead Prayer Life. I was asked to address the employees at Moody Radio and Moody Publishers, and I spoke on this subject. And that's when they said, I want you to write this in a book. And so I did. I had, over my years of the writing, I'd always been teaching and speaking and preaching and writing.

And I didn't know that I could continue to do all three because I've done all three simultaneously. And there was a roundtable discussion of these three godly men, and they were talking about, oh, what does ministry look like in your 60s? And one of them said something like this. He says, well, you don't multitask as well as you used to, but you may drop some things and do some things better than you've ever done them.

So that's when I sort of, oh boy, I don't know that I can continue to teach full time and preach very heavily and then with a schedule and also write. So I reluctantly dropped that. But then God resurrected it. And I also...

started recording videos that I would put on my website and just to get God's word out. But that's how, and there's been a very satisfying response in a sense to how to resurrect a dead prayer life. We're not putting anybody down. We're talking about death. I'm talking about my own experience, how God used, as I said, that fraternity brother that shared how to, David, know the joy of the spirit-filled life. That resurrected my prayer life because I did not apply walking by the spirit in relationship to my prayer life.

And that's what I try to communicate in the book, how the Spirit of God motivates and guides and empowers our prayer life. And so that's a great joy. Obviously, I need everything I write about. I need everything I teach. And so I thank God for that. Well, we are going to put links to your books and to your video site as well in our program notes at firstpersoninterview.com so our listeners can go there. But I think part of the...

I use the word magic. It's not really magic. We know it's the Lord. But part of the effectiveness of your teaching, Bill, is you're so humble, and everything you teach comes out of your own personal experience. These are lessons that you've learned. And that's got to speak loudly to the generation of young people that you teach today. Well, I remember it was Dr. Overt that I mentioned. He says he greatly believed in biblical preaching, his positive preaching. But he said what we really need is incarnational preaching.

In other words, preaching that pours out through the life of the communicator, through the life of the messenger. And, you know...

I remember God showing me, you know, I've had wonderful teachers, and I owe everything to so many people that have trained me. But, you know, if I tried to be sort of like some of them, it wouldn't be me. And I think God does have a unique way to communicate through each of us. And I remember way back when also saying, boy, just to continually be under the gun of preaching and teaching every day, that could be a load. But if I can somehow just share...

What God is teaching me, that could be a joy. I think that's sort of overflowing in the work of the Lord. He talks about abounding in the work of the Lord. What God is teaching me, I over... And that has been a great gift, I think. It's not being falsely humble that I need everything I teach. I really do. And God is continually... I'm in a different stage of life. There's fresh application in my own soul. And...

So, it's a great gift. And I've had wonderful students who want to learn. Let's talk about those students. What are students like today at a Bible college? Well, you know, I have graduate students, so they're a little bit older. I mean, some are older.

just right out of college and some are not right out of college. I've had them at various ages and, um, they're there because they, they want to learn. They want to grow. And, uh, no, of course I taught in the undergraduate school for 10 years. And that was a number of years ago. And I had wonderful experience there. So, um, Moody is a special place that, uh, because you remember when you and I came there as it was, um,

It was a Bible institute, and you had to go somewhere else to finish your degree. And so it purified a person's heart for coming. And so I think it's a very unique –

And I've been greatly encouraged. My students have aided me in going through almost every transition in my life. I was single when I got married. I think we had about 500 people there. A lot of them were students, you know. When our first child was born, now we had three children. But I remember one time when there was a concern about my first child. And I shared that with some emotion one day in class and said,

When we broke for lunch, I'll never forget several students staying back, fasting and praying, and things did work out. So they have been a support. They've been an encouragement in so many stages of my life, and I praise God for that. It's good to hear so many times we bring our hands over the generation that we're not a part of coming behind us, and we think, you know.

Well, it's not like it used to be. Part of that's good. You know, I was flying back from a trip to Rhode Island at a church there. And there they are sort of almost in that culture is even more advanced in regard to being away from biblical practices.

biblical framework, but you know, I had a wonderful experience with the church. I was there, but as I was flying back, I was really happy to be reading through the book of Ecclesiastes and it's in Ecclesiastes seven. It was saying, do you say that the former days were better than these? And that's exactly what I was thinking. Yeah. You know, I had culture winded my back growing up. I didn't have to define what marriage was. It was pretty much everybody bought. It was a man and a woman. But he says, do you say that the former days were better than these?

It's not from wisdom that you speak thus. It was like God rebuked me. Now, I never would have said to my boys, hey, I lived in a better time than you. I never would have said that, but I felt that. But God rebuked me. So it's like they may have opportunities. And so just I think everyone is just to embrace what we have. It's a very turbulent time that we live in right now. We never know what could happen tomorrow. But God,

Christ is on the throne. He's building his church and, and God wants us to be a light. And so, um,

They may have special opportunities. I do think there many times is a transparency and a vulnerability among them. That's a strength. That's a strength. I don't think I've ever noticed that passage in Ecclesiastes before. Yes, yes. Give me the reference again. I think it's chapter 7 and verse 10. That's Dr. Bill Thrasher, and I so appreciate his time coming to the studio for the conversation you just heard.

To learn more about Bill and the many books he's written, please visit FirstPersonInterview.com where we'll provide a link to his books and ministry. Look especially for his latest book titled How to Resurrect a Dead Prayer Life, another classic from this man. Go to FirstPersonInterview.com. Now before we leave, a word of thanks as always to the Far East Broadcasting Company who generously support First Person.

Please say thanks to FEBC by visiting the website febc.org. You'll learn how to pray for the world through stories of God at work in the spreading of His Word and the building of His kingdom through radio and other media. Also, listen for the podcast Until All Have Heard with FEBC President Ed Cannon. You can listen online at febc.org or anywhere you subscribe to podcasts.

Now, with thanks to my friend and producer, Joe Carlson, I'm Wayne Shepherd. Thank you for listening to First Person.