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Consumers are a lot smarter because of what we're seeing, what we're hearing, what we're reading, because AI is everywhere. We're questioning what was the purpose of this. When you look at what drives success in a Web3 or an AI execution, is it coming from a place that is authentic to the brand and to the experience they want consumers to have? Because
If you start with, we want to do something cool with AI, you're succumbing to the vanity of tech. AI is not the strategy. AI is a tool that we bring in just like we do with other tools. This one happens to be new and shiny and very powerful that will help us execute on a strategy.
One wrong mistake, one significant error by a brand can really impact that customer's connection to you. If you fracture it, it can impact it and then require a different kind of work to give back to the kind of trust you had before.
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Experts of Experience. I'm your host, Lauren Wood. Super quick PSA before we get into today's super exciting guest. If you enjoy our episodes, please let us know by hitting that little subscribe button wherever you listen to your podcasts.
Subscribing to our podcast greatly helps us to keep bringing you incredible insights in the CX space, and we would love to see if you enjoy it. All right. So today I'm speaking to Dan Lubetzky, the Senior Vice President of Strategy at Razorfish, an agency that is pioneering digital innovation and is also part of Publis' group.
Dan has a deep background in customer engagement, marketing, digital consulting, and AI. And today we are going to be speaking to Dan about the advertising of the future and how AI is impacting the customer experience. Dan, how are you? I'm doing well. How are you? I am very well. I'm really excited to dive into all things AI with you. I know that this is an area that you spend a lot of time thinking about.
And the first thing I think about when it comes to AI and advertising is responsibility.
There's a lot of scary things that we're seeing out there in the world. And I'd love to know, in your opinion, what are some of the risks and opportunities that we're seeing and kind of how those two things play together? It's a great question. There is a lot happening in this space. And from a responsibility perspective, and specifically within the customer relationship management or direct marketing space,
It's really important to think about the content. What content are you creating? What content are others creating? Because there's so much lookalike content out there. There's so much content out there, especially in other channels like social media, that's created to elicit extreme responses. And so the role brands play in the use of those channels, it's really important to make sure you have the proper controls in place to focus on your messaging and
Be really clear about how you're using these tools so that maybe you're accelerating content creation or you're creating other versions off of a core piece of information. But you're not creating something brand new that doesn't fit your core messaging, doesn't fit your core purpose, doesn't align to what you're trying to communicate to a customer base.
There's so many other things around responsible AI, but I think on the content front, that's really critical because of the wealth that we're seeing in the space. So I really want to focus there. So what I hear you saying is really keeping it authentic to your brand and not just relying on AI to do the job for you because that's a business risk. That's right. And sadly, we've seen unfortunate press outbursts.
out there and decisions made in the journalistic space around using AI. And sometimes that happens in the wrong way. And so I think being able to stick to your purpose, your core, and really the messaging you're driving will drive towards those relationships you're trying to create and maintain more effectively.
You said controls, and I wanted to dive into that a little bit more. Could you give me an example of what some controls are that businesses should be thinking about as they're implementing AI? Definitely. So if we're thinking about, let's consider some sort of onboarding campaign. You've signed up to receive a newsletter. You've purchased product from a company.
you've signed up for a subscription, and you're now starting to receive communications. Those first few communications around onboarding should be clearly focused on that. And maybe there's more to share for other ways to engage with the brand. But if what comes across is something very outside of that information, you might not be prepared to receive it as a customer. So that could be a variety of ads or a specific product
a way to think about other products that you could be buying from them, or it could just be really different information altogether because there could be a model behind it that's making that decision. It can kind of deviate from what you're expecting to see or what you need to see because maybe it's a complicated product. Maybe you're buying...
a product from a direct consumer, digital first brand, you're setting it up in your home and you actually need guidance. You need information to how to set it up and how do I use it and what are great ways to bring this into your daily life. That's the kind of information you want. So having AI around what content could be right, how could that content be written more effectively to an audience is great.
But just having content created because you want to communicate to a customer could once again take them off the course of what you're trying to achieve and what they need. It's a great starting point, but it does not take this job off of our plates completely and nor should it. Right.
I think about this a lot around how the consumer is going to adjust to AI as we see more and more AI kind of everywhere, right? And especially in the consumer space. Do you have any predictions of like how consumers are kind of shifting in terms of their expectations from brands? So one, I think consumers are a lot smarter.
We already were very smart. But now because of what we're seeing, what we're hearing, what we're reading, because AI is everywhere, we're questioning. We're questioning what was the purpose of this? Is this authentic? Who was this created by? We're seeing the social media try incredibly hard to better govern and inform us of what's authentic and what may be generated by AI.
And in that way, we're continuing to think about it because we're also being told that. So it's sort of a never ending thought process. Who's telling me this? Why are they telling me this? Is this real? Is it not? And I think that adds another layer of question of trust. When the brand wants to relate, connect, engage customer,
But the customer may be concerned about that authenticity and trust in a new way. We really need to stick to like the human elements of that communication. I'm curious to know when we get into the realm of customer experience and how your clients are engaging with customers. And maybe we can talk specifically about like customer support.
and how companies are leveraging that. I'd love to hear your thoughts on what you're seeing done right. And then I'll ask some other questions. What, like, where are the opportunities in that? Let's start there. Well, I think in a lot of ways, the kind of standard funnel is changing. The way that customers engage with brands, the path to a transaction, the path to retention and loyalty is
it's compressed. You can, as a consumer, enter a conversation with a brand on a messaging app and order a burrito, buy a product, change a flight, file a complaint immediately. You could do that at your leisure, whether you're sitting on your couch and watching a show and remember that you wanted to do that, or you started that flow and you respond to it later.
And I think that means that some of the customer support like interactions, filing a ticket are dramatically changed. And from a marketing organization and from that customer experience perspective, they're one in the same.
Somebody may order a meal through a delivery service like a DoorDash or other and file a complaint if the meal wasn't delivered in the correct way. And to them, that may be one experience. And that may be two or three different departments within the organization. So as we experience that at our pace with all of these great new tools and technologies we have as consumers, we
brands have to think about how they can offer that and break through path structures and data silos and things of that nature to deliver on it. But I would say at the core, it's really about that change in consumer interactions and, you know, the role of marketing delivering on that end-to-end customer experience. What are some of the difficulties, would you say, and really...
utilizing generative AI in these types of environments? What are some of the things you see people having a difficult time with when it comes to implementation? Well, one, I think there are so many ways in which you can use sometimes that panacea can create hesitation or spin in getting started. Yeah. So one of the things to think about is, you know, look at areas where you might be stuck.
You're unable to deliver on a specific project or unable to start maybe because of resourcing challenges or something much more specific to a business problem or customer problem. Those could be great ways to look at how could AI or generative AI tools help you accelerate or unlock or unblock you from delivering on that.
Now, there need to be considerations. Does this fit a company's policy? Do you have those tools? Do you need new tools? Do you have the right technical resources? There still could be complications. That can be a good way to find a place to get started. And I would say that use case based approach can help you find something very specific so that you can test and learn. Is there an example that you could share with us to...
really get it into our minds. Yes. And I was just going to say that, you know, one kind of overarching theme is that AI on its own is not the strategy.
And so it's about connecting to your company strategy the use of AI. Because you wanted specific examples, I would say one of the kind of great ways to look at it is there are so many areas of low-hanging fruit in the realm of strategy. From a professional services side, one of the things that can be an advantage is using AI around all of the research that we do. How can you use AI to accelerate, to compile disparate amounts of information?
And to also just help a broad group get to the same level of understanding. That is not a strategic advantage to all of the work that can be done by an organization, but it can be a great way to ensure that everyone is focused on the correct North Star at the right pace. You said something that I really want to underscore for people is that AI is not the strategy.
AI is a tool that we bring in just like we do with other tools. This one happens to be new and shiny and very powerful that will help us execute on a strategy. And I see a lot of businesses, a lot of chatter on LinkedIn about like, if you're not using AI, you're behind and we have to be using it. And I agree in the fact that we need to be testing and learning and seeing where can it help us because the opportunities are endless.
But just using AI for AI's sake is not the case. And there may be some cases in your business where AI isn't going to help you. And just like you've been saying, if it's taking away from your authenticity, you have to balance the pros and the cons there because that authenticity and that trust that you build with your customer is of the utmost importance, at least in my opinion. It's sensitive. It's fragile. One wrong mistake.
one significant error by a brand really impact that customer's connection to you. It could fracture it completely, or at least it kind of impact it and then require a different kind of work to give back to the kind of trust you had before.
So most definitely AI on its own is not the strategy. Now, you will have strategies for taking advantage of AI and governing the right way and following responsible tools and whatnot. But to your point on that connection, if you want to engage with a broad set of audiences, that can sometimes lead to an overload on content.
How do I address one audience for another? How do I address one that may be a customer base who knows a product incredibly well? Maybe this is a niche market where it's incredibly specific, very, very nuanced and technical information.
And then you have growth set of audiences that maybe you haven't communicated with as well before. Crafting that messaging. Great to think about using generative AI. You take a core message and now create it for a bunch of different audiences. And you probably won't get back the final product, but you will get back more specific messages.
language and you can either prompt to refine it or that's where you can balance humans in the loop to kind of finish it up and ensure that it's kind of resonating with what you need to achieve. What are some of the ways that Razorfish is applying AI to its strategy? In a variety of ways. We have teams who are using it in daily tasks, examples like completing analysis in a short amount of time.
We have, you know, overall within Publicis Group, an AI workbench and an offering that we're bringing to market for all of the agencies across Publicis Group, tools that we will leverage, but that also we can bring to our clients to help them advance. Mm-hmm.
And then we're also working with our clients within their specific policies to ensure that we know how we can use AI with them together. It kind of hits at a different point depending on the situation or the need, but it's becoming something that we are able to unlock and making sure that when we, where we do unlock it, that we have the right support for it and clear understanding so that we don't put the pressure on the individual to
but that we have the right governance around that. Have there been any AI applications that have really surprised you? Yes, I think recently there was an announcement of a large hospitality chain who was bringing conversational experiences into the hotel.
And I think when you look at a large company like that and kind of heavy traditional analog communication, somebody is picking up the phone to talk to somebody at the front desk or you're walking to talk to somebody at the front desk. Maybe you're sending an email around your experience, you know, when you're in the hotel, kind of changing that model, I found to be really interesting. Personally, I love it. It makes that connection more frequent, more real, more personal.
And then also Sam Altman recently mentioned that he could see a future where there is a single person billion dollar company or many of them.
And that's like somebody being the maestro of an entire orchestra of AI tools. I find that to be exciting and kind of scary at the same time. Yeah, for sure. Wait, take me back to the hotel. Conversational intelligence in the hotel, what does that look like? Being able to text basically with the hotel through the course of your stay.
And that could be supported by humans or with automation with Box. But if you have a complaint, if you have a great experience, if you're requesting to make a change, if you're looking to make a reservation, you basically get that concierge experience within the hotel stay.
And, you know, we've all experienced the waiting at the front desk to get to talk to somebody or having a problem. Maybe you're staying in a hotel and the air conditioning doesn't work or something. And then you're waiting to find out, was it fixed? This gives you that high touch within a channel and a device that you keep on you at all times on your phone. Interesting. So, oh, this is so interesting. And I don't know how I feel about it, to be honest, because I find hospitality, especially in hotels,
high-end hospitality. And I don't know what type of application this was in or what type of hotel this was in. But when I think about hospitality, part of the experience is the personalization, which maybe I'm just old school and I'm stuck in the like, they have their computer with all my information and they're going to give me a personalized experience based on that. And it feels like, I don't know, it's almost like too easy if it's just a computer that's giving me the personalization of that.
But, and I think about this specifically in the hospitality space because it is such a human feeling type of engagement versus like, I get this if it's, I don't know, I'm ordering food.
and something suggesting that I try something else. Like I get that when it comes to AI. Hospitality, on the other hand, it feels like there's a risk of losing that human touch, but maybe I'm just old school. Well, I think it's interesting you mentioned they have all this information about me in a computer. So there's AI that can serve the back office and maybe it's figuring out what to recommend for you.
And the person who recommends it to you may still be a person, a human in front of you or in some other form of communication. And then there's also the bot that you may know as a bot or maybe, you know, is communicated through the concept of an agent and you're just texting with it. And I think there's kind of get for purpose for both.
If you want to change the time that your room gets cleaned, you might not need that same personalized experience that you're referring to. But when you're checking in, maybe you're on this incredible vacation, you're getting away from reality and you want to just relax. And that check-in experience, there is somebody talking to you about all of the things that you can do at the property. Yeah.
you might want that human touch. And so I think understanding those places and where AI can influence behind the scenes to make things more effective in person in that hospitality setting is great. And then others was to make those operations more efficient and help you get it done and help them be prepared to accomplish it for you. Yeah.
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I think personalization is one of the most exciting things when it comes to AI and the ability to easily personalize. I'd love to hear about how you've been doing that at Razorfish or if you've been doing that at Razorfish for your clients. Has there been any applications of personalization that has been really effective in creating a great customer experience? Once again, there's a lot that we do and I can't name a client specifically, but
One of the ways where I think personalization, things and things we're doing where it makes the greatest impact is sometimes it's within the nuance of the context. Sometimes when somebody is receiving a communication, even the time at which that communication is sent, that could be an email or a mobile notification or an SMS or what have you, knowing when somebody needs it and being able to
test that off of a model and improve that can be so impactful. Having a communication sense maybe around a meal, if you're planning a meal for a family and there's some context of knowing that you generally buy in a bundle or a family meal or in a broader number of meals, it
Being able to plan that time effectively is really great. Now, that can be relatively basic in the scheme of all things personalization, but sometimes those are the ones that can be the most impactful. And sometimes when you overdo it by saying, hello, Dan Libetsky, and I know where you are and...
Well, yesterday you ordered X. Do you want to order that again? At a certain point, it can start to go overboard and you might not appreciate that. So I bet one is being able to have that right frame of use of personalization to drive the greatest impact.
And then I think the other is being able to weave in more like empathy and more of an emotional connection within it. It's one thing to have best offer targeted off of incredible information about me that I've given consent to use and elicits the right response and helps me convert. But there's another to connect with me and not only drive a business outcome, but also drive that deeper connection. And so that's why I think much around content
because I think the role of brands has changed. We've seen a growth again around nostalgia. How can these nostalgic brands connect with you? There is personalization in that.
What generation are you from? What stage of life are you in? And what information might you like? How can I connect to you at this emotional level? I think there's more in personalization now that we can take advantage of, given a variety of AI tools and the amount of data out there. And sometimes it's about really knowing how far to go for a given reason.
Do you think that consumers are already expecting this level of personalization? In some ways, they are. And we've seen a lot of reports around that and research that we've done and all the surveys with brands and with consumers themselves. But I think that it is about the balance. In some ways, they want you to know them.
and know what to communicate to them. And others, they want that only in certain situations. If you appease to that emotional connection, then you can better balance on how you communicate and you're likely to strike that balance more effectively. But while we all want personalization, once again, we don't want you to be sending a promotion to us or trying to communicate with us transactionally every time either.
So I think that's where the notion of personalization comes into play and making sure it's not just about the product to buy, but also about the connection you want to make. And I also think it's about reducing our effort as consumers. We all want people to read our minds. I'm sure...
you know, it's like, I always want my partner to read my mind. I'm like, why can you not read my mind? I want the same thing from everywhere because it's just easier for me. Of course, I don't fully expect him to read my mind, but you know. But if brands can help consumers or the people that they are serving to do what they need to do in their lives easier, then everyone wins. And so I feel like there's an element of
lower effort in that personalization offering as well, where we're just kind of, oh, that's exactly what I was wanting in this moment. I didn't even need to ask. I agree. And I think that it's not just in the use of personalization, it's where it's used. So to your point of making something easier, I happen to be a strong proponent of all things kind of conversational and messaging related. And
So if you can engage me in a tremendously rich and crisp communication on a messaging application, you're going to captivate me because it's quick and easy and it's in a single channel and I can accomplish it. If I have to make 17 clicks to get there, even if every click I made was personalized to details about me and my kind of pathing or journey to get to the end, it's
That doesn't suit me as an individual. And so I think it's the combination. It's easier to do. We have access to more data. We have better tools. We can create the content and accelerate all of that.
But being able to do that in a way that helps cut through the noise on both ends is critical. What do you think is like the risk of businesses not investing in personalization now? Things are changing so quickly. The consumer's expectations are changing so quickly. What's the risk of not doing it, would you say? What's the risk of not implementing personalization? I would say you won't show that you know your customers.
And even if you have tremendous segmentation and great insights behind it and a phenomenal plan and your customer led at your core and all the other factors that you may be doing behind the scenes, you won't illustrate that. You won't connect with your customers because it will look like you're speaking to a generic human.
And we've gathered that people will resonate better if you take some steps to communicate with them and show you know aspects of who they are. And so while you need to strike the balance, if you were to avoid personalization altogether, you would look generic. So you lead strategy at Razorfish, and I assume you are constantly thinking about what is coming in the future. How is the landscape of...
digital advertising and customer experiencing, how is that changing? What are some of the key trends that you have been seeing lately? I'd love to just understand a little bit of like, what is really exciting you these days? So as one of our strategy leaders at Razorfish, some of the things that we're seeing are how important it is for brand trust. Like we've talked about, you know, this is a growing area of importance and,
With all the information out there, brands ensure they build that trust and maintain it with their customers is credible.
I think the other is, we've talked a little bit about content, really having clarity and authenticity in your content. So much lookalike content out there and so much that's driving those extreme responses, the content arena is another piece. If they're related to AI, I think as we're talking about AI not being the strategy, but having an AI strategy for what you need to accomplish and for what you know are important to your customers.
And then fourth, we're really looking at the channels. And channels used to be something that's a very tactical or kind of lower viewed entity. But now there are just so many. And every day it's another way to use them. Whether that is how you may want to use TikTok and engage with customers who are kind of deep in that usage every day. Or it's thinking about commerce and how you can use social channels to drive commerce.
Or these new messaging applications where you can engage truly one-to-one and in a two-way engagement, responding in real time to one another to either create that connection, drive that outcome, or just build loyalty over time. Those are really critical to where we're seeing the market headed. And those kind of round out the point of a consumer can enter a point of a journey at any moment,
And so being able to actually capture on that interest within where they are, that right message, you know, right time becomes even more important.
Going back to the first point you said about brand trust, what are some ways that brands should be thinking about building trust with their consumer? So from the CRM perspective and kind of my area of expertise, one of those ways to really lean in is thinking about your contact strategy.
and your content and overall kind of purpose. What are the campaign or the specific goals? What are those customer insights? Really needing to combine all of those. Sometimes you can create the structure to drive customers towards specific action or outcome that you believe is important for them. That's different than really understanding the customer insights and balancing those against business goals.
If you weave those together, sometimes that might mean more communications and other times it might mean less. But I think that brand trust comes through in what you're communicating and how you're communicating it and making sure that for your customers where you've gathered that they care more about your brand purpose and your connection to society. Maybe it's more information around sustainability goals and how you're delivering on them as a module in an email of sorts.
And for others, it might be more about the hype, the trends and what's upcoming. And you want to get them more exclusivity and awareness around your kind of product development and upcoming releases. And that level of connection, therefore, gives consumers more control or the feeling of control, even if they're not literally choosing, yes, I'm going to see this or no on that kind of content.
But that also can lead to that preferred selection because maybe you can include capabilities to allow them to select. I like this kind of information. I don't because that tactic is coming back as we're seeing changes in the email space. So I would look at those areas on ways where if you're delivering communications through kind of standard CRM channels, like how you can use it towards that notion of brand trust. And really understanding your customer as
is what I'm hearing from you is knowing what is it that they care about and how can we speak to those needs. I want to dig into that a little bit further and talk about how brands can get to know their customer. Of course, we can do like what you just said and ask them in a survey, what things do you care about? But there's a lot of different ways. And like we've talked about, there's a lot of different data that can tell us about our customers. I'd love to hear
some insight from you on how brands can really tap into what it is that their customer wants to hear. Cookies are being deprecated. So third party cookies are going away. Your access to some of that data and signals will change.
First party data isn't a new thing. Lots of companies have been focused on first party data for a while now. And can you just define that for everyone, just in case our listeners don't understand? So third party data, things you collect from other companies. In a world of everything being digital, you're collecting insights from a
a different website that you've gone to that's related to your specific clicks, but not related to the brand and not something that you've specifically mentioned about yourself. First party data would be data that's collected on a website's property, on a brand's property, excuse me, in a digital space like a website on the things that you click on or if you're logged in, more information about yourself.
And then there is zero party data or declared data, which is you sharing information about yourself. And so Apple actually had an interesting commercial a couple of years back around when they were launching the credit card around privacy and somebody standing in a bus and yelling out loud. I think it was a man was yelling out loud his credit card information.
And that would be declared data. Hopefully somebody is not declaring their credit card data in public, but that would be declared data. And the reason I'm mentioning it is that kind of data, that's information that we choose to share and is the richest. It can't be debated. It's not only a click. It's somebody speaking or telling a brand information about themselves.
And a lot of that kind of information does live in ways of the communications you may have with the contact center or customer service because you're speaking about a complaint or you're sharing information about a case that's been filed or a ticket and you have transcripts of information. Others might be you're using voice of customer-like information and surveying them and gathering information that they're willing to share.
But then the other can be more around those preferences where you're selecting information that you are interested in related to that brand. And so as you can gather more of that first party and zero party data, you're really rich in your ability to understand the customers and communicate with them more effectively and in the ways that they will want to perceive it. Mm-hmm.
So it's like the, you know, when you're signing up for Netflix, I know most people probably did this a long time ago, but I always like it when they're like, what movies do you like? Like click on all the movies that you liked to watch so that they now know what kind of movies to deliver to you. And I always found that to be kind of a fun way. I'm like, wow, I haven't watched that in so long. I should go back and watch that movie. So things are changing fast.
What are some of the resources that you use to really keep on top of the changing technology landscape? I try to take a pretty broad approach so that I can look at a variety of perspectives and then make my own decision or opinion on a lot of these things. So I follow several startup leaders to see their journeys and how they've delivered on the vision of the company they founded. And some of them can just have such a
single-minded focus on the goal that it can be really interesting to follow. I also sign up for a variety of newsletters. There are several ones in the AI space that I review. There's a gentleman named Rashad Tabakowalan. I really love his
his newsletter, a former publicist group executive. And then I happen to be a huge fan of Scott Galloway and Kara Swisher. And I really like their shared podcast and Scott Galloway's on his own. And those are ways that I can take a view that something may be more business-focused or marketing-focused, more technically-oriented.
And sometimes it leads me to a trial just to test out a tool, see what I think about it, see if it fits for me. I'm not the most technically oriented individual compared to some others that I work with. And so it helps me try to see things through maybe their eyes or bring something up into a conversation and collaborate with them on. And it gives me a different perspective as I think about the day-to-day work that I may face and how I can take a step back and think about something differently.
I think it's really important for everybody to take a similar approach to what you just shared in gathering the information and then making your own decision on it. Because I see so many opinions that are like, this is the way, this is how it has to be done. And the fact of the matter is, is that we are very early in our AI journeys. And what we know today is
And just, I mean, the way that tech is changing in the moment, what we know today is not going to be the same tomorrow. And I think it's important that we keep our own discernment around like what we value as we're in taking this information and then applying it to our businesses, especially. I couldn't agree more.
So I have two last questions for you. The first is, I'd love to hear about a recent experience that you had with a brand that left you impressed. So I signed up for a direct-to-consumer composter, purchased one. It's sitting in my room. It's called Lomi. And...
I've really enjoyed the experience. I'm picking this because it was sort of disruptive to the way I thought about composting. Without going into the details, I didn't want to have either, you know, smell or the bugs or the other things that can come with it around my home. But I wanted to contribute and be slightly more sustainable than I may have been before. The experience of engaging with them was educational. It empowered me not just to purchase their product, but to
use it and they add a level of rewards around it too. So the more you use it, the more reward points we're getting, you know, kind of a standard loyalty program. And then you can use those to buy other accessories that go with it and things like filters that you may put in it to keep reusing it. So I like how they created this cycle because I would imagine that behind the scenes, a
and you try them out and then you don't use them at all. So it makes a nice way to make it easy. There's an app, stay connected. There's great content that helps me think about the different things I can use, things that can be put in there, how much I can put in before I hopefully don't destroy it. And then ways to continue to use it. And from the digital end and then just using it individually, it was just very straightforward.
Wow. I love that. And just for those who may not know Lomi, it basically composts your food into soil like on your countertop.
And I don't have one. I definitely want to get one, especially now with what everything you're saying. But there's two things that I really want to highlight. And what you shared is that that consistent education and empowerment that you can do this. And then the reward of actually doing it, because many people are aspirational composters and they
That is a big thing to fight against as a product like that. And I've thought about this product. How do you keep people using it? Because not everyone really...
really cares to compost. Like you have to, it's kind of has to come from the bottom of your heart to like go that extra mile to put something in a different bin, you know? And I'm impressed by everything that you just shared. And I think there's lots of notes that we can take from that. So my last question for you is what is one piece of advice that you think every customer experience leader should hear? I think it starts with the value exchange. We are in service
Of clients, organizations of whatever form, and they are responsible for serving their customers. We need to help them strike the right balance and that value exchange so that they can be customer led, but can still thrive as a business in the capitalistic and economic world that we live in.
But if they fall kind of too far to one side or the other, they may not be able to stay in business or they may not retain their business if they're not communicating effectively. So I think it all stems from the value exchange.
And being able to use that as the barometer for what areas of opportunity to pursue, what are some ways to innovate more effectively? And how do you balance that customer connection with business objective as you strive for kind of greater outcomes for them? I always say that business needs to be mutually beneficial with our customers. It really goes both ways. So I appreciate that advice.
Well, Dan, thank you so much for coming on the show. We've loved having you here chatting about AI and all the technology that is changing and the way that consumers are changing with it. I've really enjoyed this conversation. So thank you so much. Thank you. Happy to be here. Thank you.
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