Someday is Today
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First of all, you don't know me. We cool drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. For a ride in our Comet Girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart, go fashion, but you're tough girl, you can sit with us girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama, drama queens, drama queens.

We're back, baby. We did it. Oh, we survived all these years. We are reunited and it feels good. It really does. You guys are more beautiful than you've ever been. And I'm so excited we're back in the same room together. This is amazing. It feels like a homecoming. It really, really does. Like, as long as we played high schoolers, we might as well have our own, like, letter jackets and high school reunion. And we deserve this. Oh, my God. We deserve pink lady jackets. Damn right.

Yes. But ours would be blue, right? And they say go Ravens. Go Ravens. How many times over the years have people come up to you two and said like, when is there going to be a reunion? So much. So many. I've lost count, honestly. It's probably the number one question. And it's fans of the show. It's even like the sweetest reporters we've ever spoken to. People you wouldn't expect to be saying, please give us a reunion. Do that.

A lot. I really like it when like people who are from countries we had no idea the show aired in come up and they're like, we learned English watching your show. Yeah. I know. That's nuts. It's been a comfort food for so many people. And it's because of those fans, because of all you guys listening that we're even able to do this right now. We're so grateful and super, super excited to be back together. It's true though. You know, for us, we,

And we've all talked about this in private. You know, there were years where when we finished the thing we did for a decade, we were like, no, we're done with that.

And I think that the passion that the fans have carried out has actually allowed us to fall back in love with the show. You guys have given us nostalgia. You have enabled us to maintain our friendships. And honestly, our friendships are deeper and more ferocious and delicious than they've ever been. Because like we do get to travel to all these cool places together and meet, you know, the people who love our show. And you've reminded us that we love our show.

And so now we're bringing you a new show. Did you guys ever imagine when we were like locked down in Wilmington, North Carolina in the early 2000s that there would be a global fan base? Never. Never. I mean, you always hope that, but you never actually, I mean, you can't just sit around dreaming that there's going to be some global like rush that we're going to become a major piece of pop culture. And then suddenly it happens and everything.

I mean, but, you know, you're you're so what was 2003? Was it when we started? I didn't even know how the Internet worked back then. You know, there was still dial up. I mean, what were you using like AIM? Yeah. What do you mean? Home phones back then. I'm going to call Joy on her landline. That's right. Landlines when it was rude to call people on their cell phones because you don't want to bother someone when they're out.

I'll just call you when you're home. Now it's like the other way around. What do you guys remember the most about Wilmington? Like, let's talk about when we first, I mean, do you guys remember when you first showed up, like landed in that tiny little airport? Yes. Well, and always a connecting flight because there's no direct flight into Wilmington. So you'd fly to Charlotte and then you'd go get on the little plane. And I remember landing in Wilmington and getting off the plane. And I was like,

oh there oh there are six gates in the hall there's rocking chairs out front i was like can i sit in one of those i love it here have you guys ever been there before no see i was like a virginia kid so we would vacation down there growing up and there was a there was a place it was like bubba's car lot you know and it was all antique picture cars that had been used in movies that had shot there starting with like fire starter you know so

So it had been a film town since the 80s. Because Frank Capra built screen gems there. Yeah. Like 70s or 80s, right? Blue Velvet shot there. So like David Lynch came in and did super creepy stuff. Empire Records shot there, which wasn't a deal. Oh my God! It's Frenchman!

The best. I mean, there were so many cool things that had shot there before we got there. And so for me, it was like, oh, I get to go live in a vacation town where Bubba's car lot is, you know, like cool.

And Dawson's had just like reigned supreme in Wilmington. Were you guys allowed to watch Dawson's? Cause I wasn't. You weren't? What? It was a bad kid show. I wasn't allowed to watch like Beverly Hills 90210. Me neither. But, or Melrose Place, God forbid. I still, to this day, I'm like, what?

not i watched i could watch i watched 90210 to a point and then there was an episode where uh luke perry and jenny garth had like an affair behind shannon doherty's back or something and i remember seeing commercials about that i didn't even see the episode i was actually like away at this is so embarrassing i was away at space camp and i'd wild it's fine

But my parents watched the episode and when I got home they were like, we can't believe we've been letting you watch this show with your babysitter. She's a bad influence and I got a new babysitter and I was banned from watching that on 2 and 0 forever. So I think because that show was so bad is maybe why I was allowed to watch Dawson's. Because it was like small town kids figuring

it out. Yeah. Dude, I remember having girlfriends over to watch like the pilot of Dawson's and when Pacey had sex with the teacher, my mother came in and was like, what about that? I forgot about that too. It was like the first storyline

storyline. I came in on Dawson's Elite though. I didn't start watching until season like three or four when they had sort of mellowed out. It wasn't so much of the trying to shock everybody because Kevin Williamson was definitely in a shock zone at that point when he started. Yeah, I think maybe I must have done the same. I must have started watching it later. And then Iron

I remember being in college and ahead of a premiere, a season premiere, going back and watching from the beginning with friends. And I think that might have been the first time I saw that. Yeah, it did. It lit my world on fire. And all of a sudden, everyone at school knew I wasn't allowed to watch it. They're like, she's a nerd. Yeah. But, you know, we were all actors at that point. Joy, you started really young. How old were you when you started working? Oh, my gosh. Well, yeah. I mean, I started professionally when I was 12. Wow.

But I was doing some kind of, I was doing a lot of theater. I mean, we were all drama queens in our own right of our high schools and schools. You know, we all did drama club and school plays and all that kind of stuff. So that was, and you for sure were, Hilary. I know you did a ton of musical theater. I was initiated into the high school theater program when I was in third grade. I was eight with a letter jacket. Wow.

What was the show? Because I played Gretel Von Trapp in The Sound of Music. And then I followed up in fifth grade with Amaryllis in The Sound of Music. And so I thought I was so cool and adult because I was like... Who's Amaryllis in The Sound of Music? She's like the little girl that plays the piano while Marion's singing Goodnight My Someone. And she's like... Oh, The Music Man. What did I say? Sound of Music. Yes. I was Gretel in Sound of Music, Amaryllis in The Music Man. A lot of music happening in our house. See, I'm today years old always. I learned something about musicals from the two of you.

Every time we're together, I'm like, I didn't, I don't know. Nerd club. I love it. Well, I didn't start doing theater until...

I had an arts requirement in the eighth grade. I tried to get out of it and I tried to schedule my semester of theater for the same semester I was playing volleyball. And my school was like, you're an idiot. You can't do that. So I had to miss volleyball for the year, which in hindsight is a blessing because I never grew. So I'm not tall enough to be a volleyball player. I can see you being an aggressive volleyball player. You're competitive. You're competitive for sure. But I, I'm like, I can get in there. I can help.

I can't help. Suddenly I was like, yeah, just the short kid being like, give me the low ones. But suddenly I was like, wait a minute. I've been on this like med school track. I thought, you know, like good immigrant daughter, like you will be a doctor or a lawyer or a lawyer or a doctor. And then I was like, wait, but plays or books come to life. But I missed the whole musical theater thing. There's still time, babe. Oh, there's still time. There's still time.

Our 100th episode will be a musical podcast. Oh my God, I can't wait. You will write us a musical and it will be fabulous. Oh, okay. You went from creating your own on your own to being like, all right, I'm ready. I'll start now. What show was on the air when we were teenagers that you were like, oh, that's what I want to do? Felicity. Yeah, Felicity. I got to be in a couple episodes of Felicity. You did? Yeah, I did. Oh my God.

Rewind. Rewind. Yeah. Um, I was, uh, her, her teacher was like, uh,

seemed like he was hitting on her. And it was... There was some episode where his teacher seemed like he was hitting on her. And then it turned out that he was actually having an affair with me. What? And you were also a student? And I was also a student. But I also looked just like her. Like, my hair was really big and curly. And so I think maybe there was a tie in there where it was like he was... It was super weird. I don't know. But I can say everybody was really nice on that show. And Carrie...

I've always admired her as an actress too, but she was just so sweet and professional and like really warm. And, you know, I mean people, and we know certainly being on a show where people came in and out all the time, it's really hard to keep track of all the guest stars and all the storylines and everything. And, um, but Carrie was like, I always felt comfortable around her and she felt really warm and welcoming. Come on in. And the hair and makeup trailer, there was never like snobbiness or anything. So, um,

you know whatever i had a great memory from being on that show uh but what else was on the wb at the time the wb was huge at the time yeah huge huge it owned our total age bracket yeah because what charmed was a big deal yeah it would charmed felicity dawson's buffy veronica mars we grew up on buffy yeah wasn't we veronica mars was upn until it moved over until we merged that happened in our

Well, see? That was nuts because they were our competitor and we had this rivalry. Don't you remember the end of Veronica Mars in their credits? They had an icon of a tree burning and we took it so personally. I don't remember that at all. And then we all merged and we were on the same network and it was like, oh, hey guys. It felt like West Side Story. It was just like, cool, I guess we're friends now. Yeah, the WB...

I'd interviewed a bunch of people from other shows on the WB when I was working at MTV, but I was always on the other side of it. Like I definitely wasn't the talent. I was just the interviewer. And so it was all this, uh, Smallville kids. Oh, Smallville too. Oh my God. And then what was the one with Gregory Smith? Uh, Everwood. That was a big one. God,

that too. Gilmore Girls. Oh my God. They just, they were printing hits. Yeah, they were. Yeah, they were. And so if you were cast on a WV show, it was like, which is so funny that every year we always felt like we're on the bubble. They may not pick you up. You know, no, we're not really sure if anybody's into it. I don't think people at home know that. So explain to them what the bubble is. Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, uh,

the bubble is like you could burst at any moment. You could be canceled at any moment. So better, you know, stay in line, better make sure that we, you know, just keep our numbers up and do whatever we have to do to sell, sell, sell the show and make sure that we stay on the air. But it's ironic because, you know, clearly at that time, WB wasn't picking up shows that were not going to be big hits, let alone keeping them on the air for longer than, longer than

longer than two seasons I think is a fair space of time to say. By then they know. And yet even into season five, six, seven, eight, we might get canceled. Every season I was there it was like, you're lucky to have a job. And isn't it funny that now as adults, like all of us producing and directing, we're like, oh, that's a scare tactic to keep your employees terrified so they never ask for anything. Got it. Thanks, guys. But as kids we were like, oh my God, we might lose our

lose our jobs. This might be the year we all find out we're failures. You know what has happened? We've reached that point in adulthood where we're like, fine, I lose my job. It's fine. You know, like the apathy has set in, but you know, that was the biggest break ever. And trying to prove ourselves was funny.

And also like a good way to have those connections that make lifelong friends. It's like, Oh, remember when we all went through that together? It's like having matching tattoos on the inside. Yes. I almost got a tattoo at your wedding. So I did too. Almost. Yeah. I was just really long. I was like, I still got the B. I just got it later. I love it. Listen, we had,

Like 93 people get tattooed at my wedding. We'll do that on a different episode of the show. We'll just like bring in Mike Lucina. Oh my God. Yes. Why not? So what were you guys doing like right before you were cast on the show? What was like the six months leading up to finding out you were on the show? Um, I, well, I was, uh, I had just moved from New York. I was, um, I had been on a soap opera for a couple of years and,

and then I just lived in New York City doing nothing for one year. I spent all my money that I made on the soap, which, you know what, I was 19 or 20, and, like, making a stupid amount of money, which is just so unusual, and I just, it was kind of great to just blow all of it on, like, amazing restaurants, and I saw a Broadway show every other night. I remember you telling me, you're like, do you like champagne? And I was like, I don't know. You were like, I'm good at champagne. Yeah.

I mean, I was like, I moved out when I was 17. I had my own apartment, you know. That's nuts. Yeah. Like I had been kind of living on my own, taking care of myself for a long time. So when I got to L.A., I went to L.A. because I was in New York. I spent all my money. I went to the ATM one day and I had like $2,000 left. And, you know, I was like, oh, well, I guess I got to go to L.A. and try and get some guest spots. So I just packed up my bags.

Did you know where to go? No, I mean, I had been in L.A. so much because I had pilot season since I was 12, 14 years old. I was always flying out there for testing and pilots and stuff. So anyway, once I got here, it was...

stupidly charmed. Like it just kept working. I just got here and I got on guest spots and on all these great different shows and started, you know, gun department. And, um, I got the, the pilot for, uh, Ravens was sent to me and I flipped through it. And I just was like, I don't know. I don't know if I want to do a teen drama. And there were a lot of other auditions at the time. So I was, I just kind of passed by it. And then six or seven months later, um, my manager called me and she said, um,

Watch this pilot. This is a show, the show I wanted you to audition for a few months ago. But anyway, they're recasting one of the parts. And if you like it, take a look. So I took the pilot.

The tape, the videotape. It was a chunky tape. I still have that chunky tape, man. I took it over to a friend's house and we sat down and watched it. And I loved the pilot. Did you? I really did. Yeah, I loved it. And I thought, man, I would love to be a part of this show. I love the way they're weaving in music and the tone of the characters feel so...

raw and connected. And like, this feels like something I could really sink my teeth into. So, um, yeah, I went in and, and did my audition. We should all talk about our audition experiences at some point too. Oh my gosh. So what were you doing before? Oh man. I mean, I was a junior in college. Uh, I had done this movie. I had auditioned for the female lead in Van Wilder, um, opposite Ryan Reynolds. And they were like, you look 12. This

This isn't going to work. Oh, no, you didn't. I thought you looked really pretty. Well, they kept bringing me back in. And I eventually tested for the movie. And they were like, we just think you look too young to work opposite this grown man. And they were like, but there's a part, there's one scene where there's this freshman in college girl. And we'd like to offer it to you. And I was like, wow, this is cool. And I remember getting to work. And they were like, okay, so you're going to take that mark. And I was like, what is a mark?

Yeah. And Ryan Reynolds was the sweetest person. And he was like, come over here. And he gave me like a four minute lesson. And was just like, this is a mark and what it means when they say toe up and look for this and make sure no one's ever in your light. And I was like, okay.

And then five minutes later, they were like, so you're going to like, you know, we're going to smash cut to her walking in the room and you're in his lap and you guys are making out. And I was like, wow, this is tremendously awkward. Thank God he's such a nice person. And he's like remained the nicest human. But I did that. And then I, I did this three episode guest arc on Nip Tuck the first season. Yeah. Which was so fun and so like salacious and out of control. And yeah,

Then I was like, it was summer and I was working my retail job. I was working at the Century City Mall. What shop? I was working at Bloomingdale's. Great.

I did. And I... You were like Rachel Green. Literally. Yes, I was following in Jennifer Aniston's television footsteps. And the anxiety that I had every day, because like all the other kids who worked there were bad and they would just take like extended smoke breaks. And I was having a panic attack every day because I was trying to recolor coordinate and arrange everything on the shelves by size and nobody else cared. And I was like, I can't take it anymore.

And this came up and it and it was actually really interesting because similarly to you, I had read the Ravens script. And by the way, for anyone listening who doesn't know, Wintry Hill was originally titled Ravens, you know, the name of the basketball team.

And I had read the script and I had wound up doing a different pilot for the same production company, Tolan Robbins. Yeah. And it was very in the line of amazing WB shows, sort of like a seventh heaven, like really wonderful.

family story. Oh, that's another one. Seven Heavens. They printed hits, I tell you. But it was a pilot for ABC and ABC was like, we don't really need a family show. Like, this is cute, but we're not picking this up. And fun fact, Jeffrey Nordling from Big Little Lies played my dad. And my God, he's just been amazing forever. But our show didn't get picked up. And then they were recasting...

You are part. They were recasting Haley. And I got a call from one of the producers who was on my pilot and on One Tree Hill, who was like, you know, we have these four lead characters and all of them, when you meet them, are really struggling with something. And we need... Message. Message. Seth. Drama. Drama. And they were like, we need a character to be like...

ridiculous and sassy. We need like comic relief. Sassy is a good word. And I was like, Brooke, it was real sassy. And I was like, that feels fun. And I remember going in and auditioning. Um, and then I had like,

I think two more, a callback. And then there was the test where they were, remember we were there together. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I remember. They were testing, um, they were doing the, well, her name wasn't even Brooke yet, but they were doing the Brooke characters and the, and the Haley's. And it was this weird room. I remember that. Cause it was, it's like a circle couch or something. It was some kind of like two half new moon couches. I just remember walking in, you were in your headphones and I remember being like,

damn it. I hope that girl and I are not up for the same part. It's just so pretty. Oh my God. Were there other people there? Or was it just you two? I had my headphones in because I was having a panic. I was like, I'm so nervous. I don't think I can talk to anyone because if I start talking to people, I might throw up. And that'll definitely mean I don't get the job. What's fun? Oh God. It was so nerve wracking. Friends, we all

I think in whatever way, whether we like a little tinted sunscreen or we like a full face beat, like we're all wearing makeup. You guys have probably seen the Thrive Cosmetics Viral Tubing Mascara. I hope you have. You know, that's the one in that turquoise tube that's all over your socials. And my daughter has like six in her bedroom. It's so easy to see why their bestsellers have thousands of five star reviews. I'm not one of those people who can figure out like a lipstick and a liner. I just I just want one thing to stick in my bag.

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This actually comes at a perfect moment because, you know, I've had the travel day from hell and I managed to be here. Even when travel is easy, coming home after a vacation or a work trip or even like just a really long day on set is a great way to get back to work.

feels like a breath of fresh air to me. Like to walk in the door, kick off my shoes, immediately flop onto the couch, put my feet up on the coffee table. It feels like I'm in a cozy little cave and it's all mine. Oh, it's the best. The couch for me is my happy place. And just recently, actually, we were in the market for a new couch.

Ordered one off Wayfair. We're very excited. It got delivered. You know, it's white glove. They bring it in. They set it up for you. We sat down on it and oh, it was not the couch we had hoped for. It could not have been easier to return the couch. We let them know. People showed up. They took it out. And then we found a different couch we liked and we love it. So they make it as easy as possible. I think it really all boils down to the fact that there's just no better feeling than loving your home.

And Wayfair makes it easy to create a space where you can relax and unwind no matter the season. I'm relaxing and unwinding indoors because it's a bajillion degrees outside this summer, but that's just me. It's really just the place to shop for everything from living room seating, even if it takes you a couple of tries, or a perfect bedroom that just helps you cozy up, snuggle in and have sweet dreams. Yeah. And look, Wayfair is the go-to destination for everything home, no matter your style or your budget.

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I think it's no secret to listeners of our podcast that we all love Squarespace over here because our lives are pretty chronically online. And I'm going to tell you, I needed a website and had absolutely no idea how to do it. And Squarespace made it really, really easy for me. And I sort of feel like if, you know, my all over the place creative brain can manage to actually make a real website all by my lonesome, anybody can do it. Wouldn't you say? Yeah.

Listen, I wouldn't sell yourself short, but it is helpful to know that if you could do it starting from scratch, then maybe there's hope for me when I finally decide to build my own website. I can't wait.

Squarespace has the tools you need to create and sell your own online course. Start with a professional layout that fits your brand, upload video lessons to teach techniques and skills, and tailor your course with a powerful fluid engine editor. Create engaging content your audience will love and then simply add a paywall and set the price. You can charge a one-time fee or sell subscriptions. Turn your creativity into income with Squarespace courses. Yeah, and you can easily sell custom merch and create a passive income stream that engages your audience and scales your brand. Does

Design your products and production, inventory, and shipping are all handled for you, saving you time and money. Squarespace also has powerful blogging tools to share stories, photos, videos, and updates. Categorize, share, and schedule your posts to make your content work for you. Go to squarespace.com slash drama for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code drama to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

All right. This is what you do when the love of your life, the apple of your eye, the bag you would beg for can wait no longer. You ready? You

You go to eBay. Seriously, there you'll be reunited with that designer goddess of your dreams, that iconic Gucci handbag authenticated by experts no less. And with that in mind, you might let a fun Prada mini bag catch your attention. But at eBay, wandering eyes are always welcome. So if you happen to also find the perfect cheetah print dress to go with that bag, we'll just call it fate, baby. So go ahead and let's take you down a Y2K adventure. Flirt with the endless possibilities, baby tees that say...

back chunky heels only you can pull off and the Y2K mini skirts that were way ahead of their time. And you better make a move on that timeless Tiffany and Coach charm necklace while you're at it. And just because you look good in chunky heels doesn't mean you'll slack on your sneaker game. Let your love for sneakers take you down a not so sold out road and hit the ground running with all the latest streetwear. Nike, Off-White, Fear of God, Stone Island, Kith, Supreme, and whatever Adidas collab pops up next.

The fines are limitless and the authenticity is verified for real. So don't worry when that Chrome heart ring steals your heart, let it ignite your inner goth and follow your destiny. Fall in love with a goth queen seller from Nevada. Who's got the whole selection. Get that lace up corset with the knee high platforms and stop at nothing to find the perfect leather jacket to complete the collection.

And if that has you cross paths with a vintage fringe jacket, have the courage to get the boots to match. Just go full cowboy and never look back. Next thing you know, you're topping off your wardrobe with authentic luxury handbags and the most pristine watches because now you're confident and eBay's your place.

The more you love, the more you'll find. From the new to the pre-loved and waiting to be loved. The timeless classics to the one of ones and everything in between. Yeah, eBay. It's the place for new, pre-loved, vintage, and rare fashion. eBay. Things people love. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. What are your non-negotiables, Rob? Exercise is pretty much a non-negotiable. And getting into therapy once or twice a month.

It's sort of become a non-negotiable in the last couple of years for me. You know, the same way that when I wanted to start getting in shape for the first time, I hired a personal trainer to show me the ropes of the gym and teach me how to not hurt myself while also getting stronger and

I realized if I wanted to grow emotionally that why not hire a therapist, a professional, someone with experience who can sort of guide the journey rather than just reading a self-help book by myself. And I have found it to be an invaluable experience.

resource for me. I feel that too. Yeah, I agree. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Never skip therapy day with BetterHelp.

Visit BetterHelp.com slash drama today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash drama. No, I'd been in L.A. like six months before Ravens, maybe even more than that. And I'd had one boyfriend, you know, like I'd only had one boyfriend in my whole life. And his friend was getting married out there. So I piggybacked like a couple auditions onto this wedding trip.

And he was so pissed about it because he had to drive me around. It was LA. It was like before MapQuest, you know, like it was before you had to like read a map to get around. I got lost so many times. It was so scary. And so I go to this audition for Mike Tolan and he was directing radio with Cuba Gooding Jr. And I was auditioning for the part of Ed Harris's daughter.

And I went in there and I did it and it was like kind of bitchy. And he was like, here's what we need. We need you to be more vulnerable and like tell your dad that you need him. And I remember...

Like the look on my face. Cause your dad's a green beret, right? And I looked at him and I said, have you ever been a teenage girl before? Like, there's no way, no way I would make him think that I needed him. And they were like, well, it's good to meet you. Someone else is going to get this part.

And so when I got cast, I barely auditioned for One True Hill because I think they used all the old footage from that audition. And they're like, we need a bitch. Like, there's this Burton girl and she's awful. And she's got so many opinions. And so I just like made a tape in New York with the casting director. And I ended up getting the job. But it was all very like, I'd never met anyone. So when everyone was talking about tests and things like that, I was like, oh.

what is a test? What are you guys talking about? So when I showed up in Wilmington, everybody had already met each other because they'd all read with each other in auditions or tests, chemistry reads and stuff. Yeah. Wow. I just showed up and I met Chad on Dawson's Creek. I'd done one episode. I'd done the hundredth episode of Dawson's Creek. It was an episode where all those kids go to the MTV spring break. I was like, wait, weren't you playing yourself?

And I played myself. Oh, my God. And it was it should have been an omen because I remember, you know, my character's name is Hillary. They spelled it wrong. But Katie Holmes was telling me like, oh, that Chad's character was one of the Hanson brothers. And my line was, thank God you told me I probably would have slept with him.

And now when you're playing yourself, you're very sensitive about that. Especially when you're super young. And I was not a promiscuous woman. And you're like, I would never say that. And so I said that. I was like, guys, I got a problem with this line. And they're like, who's this mouthy thing? I was like, I'm not saying it. And so it should have been an omen for the continuation of my career down in Wilmington. Years of I am not saying this. I'm not saying that. Is this scene with this person? I'm not doing it. What kind of slutty

Oh, my God. Yeah. But Chad got into the van our very first day. We were, like, going to the read-through for the pilot and introduced himself like we hadn't met. And I remember being like, this is war.

So all the angsty, bitchy stuff was legit. I was just being, you know, I was a jerk kid. I love it. Brought that energy in. It was real, real. Oh my God, I love it. What's crazy to me is you telling that story makes me realize that the three of us had the exact same experience starting on our show. We all showed up to spaces where everybody else knew everybody. Yeah.

Yeah. Because when we showed up, you then had done the pilot and you knew everybody, but you were meeting everybody for all the Haley reshoots for the first time. That's right. And then when I showed up to start working. I had already been there for a bit. You had been there for a week because I wasn't in the pilot. I started in episode one, but they brought me out during the pilot reshoot scenes that you were doing. Yeah.

And, and so it's blowing my mind that the three of us women had the same repeat experience. That's weird. That's crazy. And to learn that today is really weird. Uh, I apologize for bringing a chip on my shoulder. Who are these motherfuckers? We'll show them. Um,

What I think was really fun is that we got to insert little tiny pieces of our real selves into our characters. Because I don't know that our bosses necessarily knew what they were doing a lot either. It was new for a lot of them. And so we got to...

influence little bits and pieces of who our characters would become. I actually had been a cheerleader in high school. I was a very grumpy cheerleader in high school. I remember having like pictures of Charles Manson and quotes of his on my megaphone.

And like, just to be contrary. Yeah, just to be a dick. And so when they created this character, I was like, whoa, that hits close to home. What were pieces of your characters that really stood out for you guys? Either that were there already or that you inserted? Gosh, I'm trying to think about this because...

I have, well, first of all, I have the worst long-term memory ever. You could make shit up. No one would know, Joy. I mean, I remember getting there and being, I was kind of, like I said, already used to being dropped into new situations on my own and just having to sort of handle it and connect with people and make friends. So I'd been doing that for a while. So

And I'm such an introvert that I was also like, just wanted to spend time in my hotel room and walk around on my own. The Riverview Suites? Yeah, the Riverview Suites. I'd walk around just like being poetic and writing poetry on the back of napkins and things in my mind, writing songs. It was just so awkward and didn't know how to actually have a real spending time getting to know somebody. So I think a lot of my experience was colored by that. But in terms of...

Haley and being on set. I mean, I remembered what I remember shooting the scene in the cafe with Karen and the chili and some thing about magazine pages being sticky. We're going to have to rewatch this pilot. We'll know what I'm talking about, but there was something about that. And I'm just like mouthing off to Lucas and it felt very comfortable. Um,

Moira and Chad were both really welcoming and really, um, encouraging. And, um, I felt like I had room to play and, uh,

And I think I resonated with the sense that Haley felt kind of introverted and awkward and didn't really know how to connect with people. Because even though I'm an extroverted introvert because of my business, I've learned how to walk into a room and manage having a conversation, connecting with lots of people and being charismatic. But inside I'm crawling into a hole and like can't wait to be alone. Yeah.

So I think there was a lot of that part of me that I recognized in Haley and, you know, connected with that. What about you, Soph? Oh, man. It was really interesting because there was a boldness to Brooke Davis. Well, actually, I need to rewind. Her name wasn't even Brooke Davis. What was it? Oh, yeah. It was Tara. Tara!

Oh my gosh, that's right. Like 1,000% no. Not that there's anything wrong with Tara. Not that there's anything wrong, but like that was not her name. Yeah. You know, like it doesn't, it doesn't, it just doesn't feel right. Brooke is an expensive name. It is. And you know what's so funny is I remember when we were...

Getting everything settled. And one of our writers was like, well, what name do you like? And they suggested a couple. And my best friend from college is a girl named Brooke. No way. And she is just like one of those people who is so chic. Like she can put on something that is actually like expensive and beautiful or she can put on a Zara t-shirt and it looks like it's a designer. Like somebody else we know.

Oh, fancy pants over here. That's very sweet. I always am like, this is like a nice outfit. Why do I look like a teenage boy in this is how I feel every day. Also like every single day I wear a pair of jeans and an oversized blazer, but this is not the point. I do love a uniform, but, but I, I, and I just, there was something about like her spirit, even in college. Like I, similarly to you, I think I know how to, I know how to show up in a room. I know how to do my job. I'm,

I'm really, really good at being bold for other people. But I've realized as a grown up who has spent invested money in therapy, I'm actually historically I have not been good at being bold for myself. And my friend Brooke from college was so unabashedly bold and was never ashamed of anything and never embarrassed by anything and never worried she was offending anyone. She was so herself. And I knew that this character was supposed to be like that.

And I think the interesting thing is that I learned a little more about how to do that for myself because I played Brooke Davis and I brought like deeply self-conscious fear and, and, and self-searching to her. And I think I was able to humanize her because very similarly to you. And I know we all experienced this on our show, but,

There were things that were written for me to do as this person that I just refused to do. I said, I'm not doing this. Yeah, we all had moments like that for sure. We all had that. And I think there was something really beautiful that we got to be inspired by our characters. We got to inspire our characters. And weirdly, we stuck up for each other. Like, I'm like, oh, Brooke Davis and I stuck up for each other every day. Oh, that's a good way to think. You know, I feel that. Yeah.

I feel like Peyton Sawyer is a very different person than I am. And I'm so defensive of her because she's like a broken winged bird, you know? And, and there are other people in our industry who have done teen dramas who try to distance themselves from it. It's like, guys, it's a genre we make fun of. You know what I mean? And so for me, always like owning her and defending her has been, it's been a life's work. But also like,

Have we forgot? And what is their show? Come on. Claire Danes and Jared Leto's classic. They're two of my favorite actors who make the most incredible Academy Award nominated films we've ever seen. Like,

I don't hate a teen drama. I love it. I think it makes you great. People love them. People love them. And you said something that I thought was so smart. Girl, all day. This is my, I know exactly what you're going to say. No, you tell them because it's your mantra and I love it. Listen, all these folks out there winning awards with good scripts, I'm not impressed because if you can take a script and make it relatable and watchable and like make somebody cry, you're a winner. I agree. And I think about

And I'm like, if we can make you weep and have a deep talk with your family after an episode of our show on a very mediocre script, 98% of the time. And a dog can eat a heart. Exactly. We can jump sharks and you still love us. Like, come on. Yeah, it is. That takes some real metal, if I may say so, for all of us. Yeah. So in watching this, guys, I have, listen, I have not seen anything since I left. I haven't either. No.

No, not a thing. And I never saw the last three seasons because I was like off having babies and like, you know, just on a different planet. And so frankly, I'm nervous about rewatching because it's like, I know it's going to be painful to watch myself learn how to act on camera. Yeah.

I wasn't in class. I'd taken classes for years. I'd done theater forever, but TV acting is so, so, so different. I am also nervous to rewatch because I know where my personal life was during those 10 years. Yeah, sure do. And I know what I... You're literally whole face just turned red. You're literally whole face just turned red. Oh my God.

We got a lot in common. Yeah. But like I, when I think back on, there's so many parts of myself that I also have invested money in therapy. Yeah. You know, done a lot of work as, as you do when life kicks your ass. And, and when I think about,

the sort of superiority complexes that I have like how judgmental and like how there's just so many things that I look back on my younger self and you I don't know if you guys do but I cringe at a lot of those moments I mean I'm still learning to forgive myself for just being human and growing and learning but I think back and I know I inserted so much of that into Haley and so when I watch her when I have seen clips or things come on I always cringe because I'm just like

Oh God, she's so like, that's, is that what I was like? Oh God. I'm so sorry. I felt insufferable. Oh man. You know, what's so interesting to me about it though, is I also feel like, and we've had this,

experience the three of us over the years. And, and, you know, we've talked about this with the fans. So many of you listening at home, probably no facets of these stories, but it's,

There was so much, not only of us as young adults who, by the way, knew nothing. We were learning in real time. It was the first time a lot of us were away from our parents. Yes. Like it was kind of like being pushed off a cliff and trying to get your like skydiving backpack on at the same time. It was really, it's a wonder none of us is dead. Yeah. So congratulations. By the way, of all the cats, like...

We've thrived. We've really done our way. Everyone's alive. You're like, we're doing great. We're doing great. And you know what? As you said last night at dinner, we all had dinner last night, and you said, you were talking about the benefit of being in Wilmington when we weren't being able to be snapped by paparazzi coming out of a restaurant. But you know, that stuff messes with you when you're that young. And no wonder a lot of kids without guidance and without their parents still there just kind of went off the rails. And I don't know.

that we would have been any different if we hadn't been protected by our location in a lot of ways. I mean, even the aspects of it that we did experience were really traumatizing for me. Yeah. Like I, it was so hard to handle this notion that

everyone wants you to fail so they can make fun of you but also you're meant to be perfect but no one knows how to be perfect let alone an adult because we were 20 years old and like I mean I you know children we were children the only thing that ever because I was always like drunk hungover like that's gonna

That's going to be the hard part of watching this for me. It's like, oh, that's a hangover. You're the fire belly. I was a brute. But the only paparazzi mess I ever ran into was at this hotel. No way. We are at the W Hotel in Westwood. Yeah. And I came out in like season five or season six to start pitching TV shows that I'd created with my little brother, Billy. And so Billy had worked on our show.

Billy and I are staying here, maybe even in like one of these rooms, because I knew it had like two bedrooms here. And the next thing I know, like the magazine's reporting Hillary Burton seen laughing over dinner at the W Hotel with a mystery man.

I was like, it's my brother. Ew, gross. Oh my God. But it was so late, you know, and I felt so violated and that happened to me once, you know? And, and so I can't imagine, you're right. The kids that are just under the microscope all the time. But it's so interesting because when we think about it, there was that external attention. There was the, the very real world of what we were learning on set and being human beings, making mistakes and, you know, being hung over and,

figuring it out. I was never hung up. It's part of my problem, by the way. We'll get you there. We're making up for it. Believe me, I've done since then. I think that there's something so interesting also about

our ability now, the privilege really of getting a version of a do-over of this female friendship that is so important to the three of us that has been such a lifeline. We do have these tattoos on the inside that nobody else has.

And we've been able to be like, oh, wow, weird to learn that there were some adults who didn't want us to be friends because they thought we would negotiate together. So they like pitted us against each other at 20. That's dark. Like, yeah. And yet, no matter what anybody ever tried, the ways they wanted to mess with us or the way the industry was trying to mess with kids in the early 2000s or anything like that.

The three of us came out like Jones of Arc, like just out of the fire, like what? You can't fuck with us. And I really, I love it. Yeah. I just love it. All of us got involved in advocacy. We're all a little surly. Who, us? Who, us? No.

Never. No, I mean, I think rewatching it together as a group is going to be fun because I didn't know what you guys were going through on the show. And all we could do, especially at that age, is assume. That's one of the things that we don't...

at that time, I guess when we were being raised, guys, we didn't even have texting. Like we couldn't even text each other. I had a Motorola Razr and I thought I was so cool. I thought we'd flip our phones open and be like, wow. That T-Mobile one that was like a typewriter. The sidekick. Oh my God. I still remember the sound of the sidekick opening the shh. And then the soft keys, the like, ticker, ticker, ticker.

we weren't taught how to be like the value of being vulnerable with each other and so that it was okay to just be like, guys, I feel insecure when I'm around you and all you're doing is talking and bouncing off each other. I don't know what to say and I can't keep up and like, can you just like make space for me? Like I,

Nobody would have taught me to say that when I was 20. It's just not, wasn't part of the generation we were raised in. But we can now. Yeah. And it feels so special. And I think about all the young women who reach out to all of us all the time who are watching the show now and who talk about how important our onscreen friendships are. And I'm like, man, we're getting the better version of everything.

of any version of a friendship we had on screen or otherwise. We're getting it now in our adulthood in this new era, to your point, Joy, of women actually being taught to go to bat for each other instead of- And for themselves. Yeah, we're not each other's competition. We're each other's greatest champions. But back then, everyone around us wanted us to compete with each other.

And I don't know. I think that all this stuff that's so scary to watch, I'm so relieved I get to watch with you guys. Joy's the talented one. Sophia's the gorgeous one. And you're the angry one. And I was like, what? Wow. Was that said to you? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's not wrong. I was pretty angry. You're also beautiful and talented. I think we all do okay for ourselves, but...

Well, doing this, I think those titles are a fun thing to poke at. Yeah. Like we're going to have our friends on the show. Yeah. Lee had his experiences, Antoine, James, all of our peers also had those experiences. So throughout the course of this whole series, like I'm excited to have them on because they're going to have a totally different experience than we did. Oh, they'll have to experience things we never did for sure. This is what you were saying, Sophia, is I think one of the,

it's the biggest reason why we wanted to do this podcast because as, as fun as it is to reconnect, I love doing this with you girls and you know, yeah, it's, this is, this is such a cool revisit to a major pop culture moment. Yes. But the fact that now as, as older women, you know, Hillary and I are moms raising young girls also, um, just being able to offer to the younger generation, a vision of what a sisterhood can look like, um,

For women who grew up watching the show to be able to revisit that maybe with some of their girlfriends, you know, maybe you'll you out there listening. We'll learn along with us some of the things that we are some of our takeaways, some of the things that we're learning as we heal in some ways, which I think this is going to be healing in a lot of ways. Watching as well. Second season mullet I had. I don't know if I'm ever going to go home.

But anyway, I just think, I think it's going to be great. And I think I'm really excited because I think that's going to be really helpful for a lot of them. A lot of young women tuning in. Yeah. I do too. All right. Let's get weird. Sorry. You can always count on me to be sincere. You can always count on me to ruin it because I'm like, I know we love to lean in. And Hillary's like, I got a joke. I got a joke. I got a joke. I love it.

Yeah. This is why I was always hung over. This is why we're, we're a good unit. Yeah. It's, it's, we were cast really well. And it's weird to think that there was a person out there who was responsible for choosing our friendships for us. Um, and for me as a kid, that was hard. Cause I was like, you can't tell me who to be friends with, but like, they did a really good job. Like we all turned out

out great and the conventions we do are so fun yeah and so this is an extension of that yeah should be great um so yes we're you know we've got a whole how many seasons nine we have 187 hours of television what we do it's so many hours it's so many hours yeah

That's a lot. It's a lot. Like when we get those messages and someone's like, I'm rewatching it from the start for the fourth time. I'm like, thank you. And also do you have homework or like a job? Are you really?

Hang in. It's comfort food. Yeah. Who's going to be the person you're most excited to have on and pick their brain? Paul's going to be a blast. Look, no lie. That's going to be fun. He's got a lot of energy. I also, I can't wait to hear Moira's perspective. Cause like she was our age when we started our show. Yeah. And now I'm like, were we, I just want to look at her and be like, were we idiots? Oh, did you like it? She's going to have so much to say. And Barney.

Barbara too. Yeah. Barbara's so fun. Antoine for me is so fun because his perspective on all, Antoine had like kids who were teenagers when we were shooting the show. And so he also was removed from it in a way where he could just watch us like spin our wheels and be messy and loved it. Like when Antoine called you and was like, you need to go out tonight. We're going to sidebar, you know, like you knew, all right, I'm going to get a lecture tonight. And he would just make sure that

Everything was cool. He was like a good negotiator. Yeah. Antoine's the party. He really is. And for anyone listening at home who might not know, Paul played Dan, Moira played Karen, Barbara played Deb, and Antoine played Skills. All right, this is what you do when the love of your life, the apple of your eye, the bag you would beg for can wait no longer. You ready?

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The sort of epic feeling of, oh, my God, I've been cast on a WB show. Do you guys remember? Because when I when I think about landing at, you know, our sweet little Six Gate Airport, which, by the way, when we've gone back for conventions, I'm like, oh, I just love it here. It still smells the same. It's the smell. It's perfect. I remember leaving the airport and I had to go straight to the studio.

for like a first meeting. And when I pulled into Screen Gems, the side of one of the stages had that huge Dawson's Creek mural on it. And I just remember thinking, oh my God, I'm here. And it was so great. Like at 20 years old, it was so crazy. Something big is happening right now.

That's what it felt like. I was just counting the days until our own big old heads got put up on the side. And they did. And they did. They put us on the side of the cafeteria. The entire side wall. Yeah. Yeah. I was down with that. We all landed in different parts of town, too. When you first get cast on a Warner Brothers show, you all stay at the Riverview Suites in Wilmington, which is...

the suites. It was like an extended stay hotel. Yeah. But then we all went off and picked our own places to live. And Joy, you were at the beach, right? Didn't you go to the beach season one? Oh my gosh. I think I did because that was the year we got that, those dogs. Remember Sophia? We got those dogs. Oh, we went on a Saturday and got puppies. I know. Um, yeah. I wasn't invited to puppy day. I was hungover. Yeah.

I think we were scared of you. So I think I was at the beach. So angry. And moved downtown second season. So yeah, I think, where did you go? Well, I, the very first place I got, because they put me up for the pilot and then it was like, okay, child, here's a chunk of money. Go find a place to live. You know, and like, I'd never signed a lease on my own before. I didn't know how to do that. And so I found an apartment for like $650 a month.

that was directly across the street from Karen's cafe. I was living above Firebelly. And...

It was the first time I'd ever lived alone. And there was this dude next door to me who was so scary. His name was Glenn. If he's listening, I don't even care that you know you're scary because you're listening to this, which proves you're scary. So anyway, Glenn was so weird and like would lean out on his balcony to peek in my balcony. Oh God. And then I found these holes in the wall and I was like, you did not. But I didn't know if it was just a shitty building or like,

Like Anthony Perkins psycho holes in the wall. So I was so scary. So that is when I started inviting the crew to come over every time they wrapped at Karen's Cafe just because I didn't want to be by myself. And so I ended up having like ragers at this little $600 apartment. Yeah, you did. And it was fun. It was a great time. I was not far. I was also off Front Street. The first apartment I found was...

You had a nice apartment. I loved that apartment. It was just in such a weird little building. I think there were only like four apartments. There was a weird staircase that went up the side of every level. And I think it was like two apartments per floor. It was basically the unused space that someone realized they could be making money on because it was the other side of the rooftop of the real cafe. Oh, that's right. Because I remember that brick wall. It was all that exposed brick because I think it had been outside.

side and then they just made it inside and they put these four apartments in this like random space and it was so cool and I remember having to negotiate with the parking lot across the street because there was obviously like there was no parking there was no nothing I negotiated with the parking lot that was across the street that was like a you know pay by day place and I like ran around until I found the owner like in a bar one day and I

And I was like, hey, like I live across the street. And is there any way I could just like pay you every month to park? And I paid $95 a month to have a parking spot. That's so much money. Oh, which was so much money to me at the time. And now I think about like people complaining about how in New York they have to pay $1,200 a month for parking. And I'm like, wow, maybe I shouldn't have been complaining. But we were just so broke. And like, you know, it was all so weird.

I remember, you know, you get your like little, they give you a couple thousand dollars and they're like, buy your own plane ticket and then move across the country with all your stuff. And you're like, okay. Like it's all so scary. But I loved that apartment. I think I did. You have a bunch of scrapbooking stuff. I feel like I came over to pick you up and you're like, this is my scrapbooking room. I was so into it. I was so, my whole quote dining room table, whatever that was, was just covered in photo album shit.

And I think I was into it for like a year and then was like, well,

Well, I just have a, I have a lot of, I have a, what's that called? Um, decoupage? No, the, the, oh, cardstock. Cardstock. Yes, you look at all the bad scrambles where I am. With like the weird edges. With the weird edges. Oh my God. I'm going to cardstock and I'm going to make borders and it's going to be beautiful. And then I was like, no, I'm not. No. I tried. Listen, we've got a whole TV show. That's the scrapbook. But see, this is the thing. Even when it's not going to last, I'm really committed to the thing I decide I'm going to try to do. Yeah.

even if it's just for a moment there's so many hobbies that i've been like scrapbooking i'm gonna do that yeah i'm gonna learn how to i don't know play the guitar never did that either but i have one do you heard of being an artist though i think you know you explore all these different ideas i did learn to knit that's right we all picked up weird hobbies to keep ourselves busy on set yeah

You know, pre-social media. Now everybody just like scrolls through their phone. Yeah. No, we actually talked to each other and read books and had knitting circles, kind of. Not really. We would interrogate the new kids. And we got dogs. Yeah, guys, I didn't get a dog. I did. Little Annie. She was such a good dog. And Carolina. I know. Carolina. Carolina.

that little golden yeah little golden i was a she lab or retriever i don't know what she was they were they were she was so sweet little farm dogs yeah she ended up on a farm i just wasn't ready to take care of an animal that that juncture in my life but i am now um listen before we wrap up i have um kind of a little surprise for us i like surprises joy always has good surprises yeah okay

Okay, so this was given to me by one of our executive producers, Greg Prange, at the wrap of the pilot. Congratulations. Of the...

It could have been the end of season one. It was a big gift. So maybe it was the end of season one. I'm not sure. I just remember having this moment. It was definitely like the first at the very beginning. I mean, that's amazing. This is a 1996 box of Dom Perignon. What? And it's not a box. It's a bottle. Excuse me. I definitely didn't get one of these. It's a box with a bottle in it. Yeah, Joy, what did you do that we didn't do? No, I thought.

I think you truly reached out to the pilot and you got a present. I guess that's what it was. I think I went to the pilot. Wow. So anyway, I've been saving it for, you know, since 2001, I guess, right? Don't make it worse. 2003. 2000-ish. 2003. But let's pop it open. Yeah. Oh, my God. Let's actually enjoy this.

bottle that I've been saving for exactly the right moment. Is there anything more dramatic and fancy than a vintage doll? No, girl, I love fancy. And by the way, like, it's so nice to be in a moment where you know it's special. Like, when we were kids, I don't know that we recognized it all the time, and so reuniting now feels good because we know it's special, and Joy's going to

Okay, here we go. Wow. That was very professionally done. Thank you. I drink a lot of champagne. Yeah, apparently. Look at the color. This is like a nice amber color. You're welcome. This is so special. Listen, I have moved several times with this bottle, so there's a good chance it's tanned.

Well, honestly, that would be kind of perfect. We're such good actors. No one will ever know. I love you guys. I love you guys. Here's to drama queens. Yeah, that works. Oh, that's nice. Oh, wow. Well, kids, we're going to have a great time now. Yes, we are. We'll see you next week. What are we doing next week? Next week, we are re-watching the pilot. So before you watch our show, I mean, if you want to participate...

go watch the pilot and then, and then come listen. We're going to have a nice chat about all the fun things we remember and who else knows what else is going to come up. A little bit of shit talk. Just a little. Just a little. We deserve it. Champagne. Champagne. We deserve it. We deserve it.

listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at DramaQueensOTH or email us at DramaQueens at iHeartRadio.com See you next time. Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama

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