Mouth to Mouth with Katherine Bailess (aka Erica Marsh) • EP214
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Fashion but you're tough, girl. You can sit with us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Drama, drama queens, drama queens. All right, ladies and gents. We're back. We're here with episode 14, season 2, The Quiet Things That No One Ever Knows. This originally aired February 15th, 2005. And in real time, I don't know when you're listening to this podcast, but you're getting us late at night. And...

I'm like, people may or may not be sober. Oh my God, we're all going to sound like the Saturday Night Live skit. Shweaty balls. We're going to just talk really low all episode. I feel like I sound like the sloth in Zootopia. Look, I just found my mic. So anyway, it's going great. Why am I so quiet and so far away? Oh yeah, my microphone's not here.

That's amazing. No, you guys, I was just saying, I feel like I sound like the sloth in Zootopia. I'm like, hello. Well, you also just worked a full day on Good Sam, which, hold on, this episode is airing like very soon before our episode. Before our episode.

So maybe let's tease that a little bit because it's always the highlight of my week when we do this podcast together. It really is like the nice thing in my life. I'm doing a show about like true crime and it is dark. And so I know that once a week I get this light at the end of the tunnel where we just get to like laugh and joke around. And being able to be on set with you guys for the first time in a century felt like

I'm so, so proud. Congratulations. I'm a hundred years old. It was so fun. Yeah. You floated it on like a Sunday. And by like Wednesday we were on planes. It was, it was, it was nuts. It was so fast how that happened.

And so fabulous. And we had such a blast. And I'm so excited for the audience to watch too, because you know how excited everybody's going to be. Hit us with the dates. Dates and times. Dates and times. Yes. So it's going to be next week, March 23rd. The 23rd. The OTH ladies are back together. Hello. Wink, wink, non-don.

And we have something special coming up before the Good Sam episode. You're not ready for this. Are you ready for this? You're not even ready for this. Maybe they know because we're talking about how it is going to be the 23rd of March. Do you think they know? I mean, we're not subtle.

Guys, it's our day. We're doing a live event. We're doing another live Drama Queens event. Oh my gosh. It's so exciting. Our second one. Guys, I'm so freaking pumped about this one. Me too. Tell them why. Who's our guest? Tell them why. Because I'm not going to be able to be cool. You know who our guest is, guys. It's Brian Greenberg. Jake Dygalski's coming on the 23rd.

PG. I cannot freaking wait. I can't wait. And it feels nice to have him on our second live event because obviously our first one, our slumber party, was just the gals. But...

We're very blessed in this moment of the rewatch by Jake Jagielski's arms. And I think we should ask Brian Greenberg to wear a tank top. He's been carrying those babies around. He's got to have. He's been carrying his babies around and he's probably ripped still. And if we're going to be on Zoom, we might as well give the people what they want. Don't you think? Yeah. Oh my God. BG, bust out one of those white tanks.

He is such a treasure, not only in these episodes, but currently. You can get your tickets on loopedlive.com. Yes, and our event is going to be March 23rd at 6 p.m. Pacific, 9 p.m. Eastern. So you can spend the hour with us.

we'll see what Brian Greenberg wears. And at 10 p.m. Eastern, 7 p.m. No, it's just 10 p.m. everywhere, isn't it? At 10 p.m., you will go from the event into our very special episode. The three of us are acting on Good Sam on CBS. We are on screen together for the first time as a trio in 14 years. This is going to be such a fun night. I can't wait. I'm so psyched. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it.

I can't wait. I'm so curious to see because there were moments when you guys came in

especially when we first started rehearsing scenes and I caught myself just staring at you both being like, oh my God, it's finally happening. And then I was like, oh God, I have a line. Like I have to do my job. I'm supposed to be talking. And I wonder if any of that just pure staring at you two, like the unicorns in the room is going to be in the edit. Well, I did ADR today for the Good Sam. No. Did you do ADR today? I did mine yesterday. Oh my God. It was so wild. Like seeing us all together as grownups. Yeah.

Oh my God, I haven't seen it yet. There we are. It was so fun because we had such a secondhand communication. It was a shorthand immediately as soon as we got on set. It was like riding a bike. Muscle memory just jumped right back in.

Wow. We have so many backstage pictures. We'll post all those too. We have so many photos for you event and show on the 23rd. That feels like a sign. I mean, of all the days our episode could have aired March 23rd. Hello.

Are we all going to get 23 tattoos on our, like, tramp stamp area like Haley? We need to get some somewhere. Are we going to get, like, a Roman numeral just to try to edge it up a little bit? Yeah, it's got to be cooler. It's got to be cooler. We can't hit the nail right on the head. We'll come up with something. You know what? This is another thing, our friends and fans. We would love for you to...

Submit some ideas to us. How do we make 23 cool? Tell us. We want to know. Show us. Send us some art. Someone going to design tattoos for us? I mean, I'm into it. Guys, people have gotten our signatures tattooed on their bodies. What if we got someone's art tattooed on ours? I would love to see some fan designs, some fan tattoo designs for maybe a raven with the 23 or just the 23 altogether. I might say like a raven or I'm liking Hillary's idea of like a Roman numeral 23 or is there some symbol?

What if it's a grouping of two ravens and then three ravens? Oh. Interesting. All right. You know who I'm a fan of? Who? Our guest this episode. Our guest this episode is so good. You guys, we are going to take a break. Don't go anywhere because when we come back, it's about to get awesome. Friends, we all...

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I think it's no secret to listeners of our podcast that we all love Squarespace over here because our lives are pretty chronically online. And I'm going to tell you, I needed a website and had absolutely no idea how to do it. And Squarespace made it really, really easy for me. And I sort of feel like if, you know, my all over the place creative brain can manage to actually make a real website all by my lonesome, anybody can do it, wouldn't you say?

Listen, I wouldn't sell yourself short, but it is helpful to know that if you could do it starting from scratch, then maybe there's hope for me when I finally decide to build my own website. I can't wait.

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It's back to school season for the kiddos, which means it's the perfect time to get your vacay on. Beaches are empty, resorts are quiet, and cheap Caribbean vacations has fall vacay deals up to, wait for it, 45% off. Plus, you can score more site-wide savings and take an extra $50 off your booking now through September 5th. Take

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You are an icon on our show. Erica Marsh came in like a roll of thunder, sister. Oh, my gosh. Y'all, that was the most fun time I've ever had. And y'all came so close. We were such babies. Yeah. Like tight. And then we got into a lot of messes outside. What are you talking about? What messes?

angels perfect angels perfect angels Catherine okay we need a recap because you first of all I just read this in the bio they sent wait were you in were we in bring it on again together yes no okay so joy you and I met

from Abigail Spencer. We met in New York City and you were singing somewhere. Oh my gosh, the Foxy ladies love Boogie 70s explosion. What? How do we know that? What are the words that you just said? What?

And so then. Wait, pause. It was a cabaret that I did at, on Christopher street at the, the duplex, which is like the big gay nightclub in, in yeah. We know what it is joy. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It was like, it was amazing. And I did this show that was five women doing like the, the stretch of the seventies theme songs and like well-known songs from the stretch of the seventies. Wow.

And my dresser backstage was Bryce Dallas Howard. What? I know. It's crazy. She was at NYU at the time. And then my friend Abby Spencer from – we were both on Soaps together when we did this show. And Abby's from Pensacola, which why do you know her? Why did you know her? Are you from Pensacola? I met her from Christopher Damon. Oh.

Her dad, his daddy was on soaps. Okay. Yes. And she was close with their family. So Abby and I were both doing Foxy ladies love boogie seventies explosion in sequence, you know, every three, four nights a week or whatever, doing this cabaret show in New York. And then we met, did you come to see the show cat? Of course I saw you saying honey.

Oh my God. Sing and dance and do everything. Like you're so talented. All y'all are talented. You are. Wait, what happened? So how did you end up doing this cheer movie? Huh? How did you end up doing, when did, so we met in New York, but then we worked together on Bring It On again? Yeah.

Okay. Were you at one of the cheerleaders? No, no, no, no. I was in cheer camp for three weeks. I feel like I would have remembered you. I should have been the lead cheerleader, but I came to LA, my very first audition ever in Los Angeles. I went out and I went and met my agents and they said, Oh, um, so we have a Gothic cheerleader for you. I was like, this is not Gothic. Okay.

I tried, but I didn't really y'all. I just put on a black shirt. I got my gay bestie to like, just like read with me. And then I went in and they go, we'll be right back.

And then they go, can you read for like the reporter? So I was the multi-personality. Yes. Reporter. And I told Damon San Estefano, who was the director, I said, it'd be very cool. Like maybe if I just like tumbled into my like introduction. So I went and tumbled. Stop. Into my introduction.

Bad idea, y'all. I sprained something in my body. And I was like, oh, maybe I shouldn't have done that. But I still did some front stuff. Some front stuff. Some front stuff. I mean, like, I always have to give, like, a show. I remember this now. I totally remember this now. That's why. Because we didn't have...

I don't know if we maybe had one scene together. Now I have to see if we can find it where I was like, were you interviewing the cheerleaders or something? Yes, I was. And you were being bitchy. Yeah. Like that was your character. Super bitchy. This is so crazy. Oh, this is so great. I love it. Because that predates One Tree Hill by how many years? How many years before? Yeah. But still like, wow. You know,

Hey, Sophia. Oh, no. Oh, no. Here it comes. Here it comes.

So I went out for Brooke twice and I got a call back. No, I was not going to say this tonight, but I was like, you know what? I love this. I know. And you're obviously you're the perfect person for Brooke, but they kept on calling me back. And I was like, and when you got it, I was like, no, she is spot on. Oh my God. You know, when you get a role, you know, like when I did sure. Yeah.

like a thousand girls went out because they're dancers and actresses and they're like, I got it. You know what I mean? And you knew it was yours. No, you just know. But you know what? You know what? Actually, like I have the chills. Literally, I got the chills when you said that because that scene with us after the election in the office. Yeah. Talking about

What we're both afraid of these two girls who don't get vulnerable with anyone for some reason are meeting kind of in this little sacred space and getting vulnerable with each other. And Erica Marsh is, is in a, in her own way. It was like seeing these two girls mirroring each other. Well, they're negatives of each other. Yeah. They're like two sides of the same coin. Right. Yeah. So that makes perfect sense to me. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, that's funny. I didn't even pick up on that either. I didn't either. You so made it your own. I did, but I did watch election. Yeah. Of course, because she's brilliant. Yeah, that's a perfect. I studied it, but I'm like, I made it Catherine. Yeah. Erica. But anyway, it's just so funny because they didn't tell me that the audition, which is. Okay.

Catherine, you're such a good actress. And we've been, you know, look, there are so many. I was saying this when we were watching the episode. There are so many bad choices that so many other actresses would have made in that spot because it's a real easy role to do the caricature version of. Just go full bitch. Yeah. Yep. And there's no dimension and there's no depth. And it's like you're just what's on the page. And.

When you were on the screen, you brought so much in. There was so much depth. You could tell that this was a girl who... I mean, how interesting to see a character who's fighting for her position...

but who is wholly aware of the fact that this is all she has and self-aware enough to admit it to another person who is her rival. That takes so much confidence. It takes so much vulnerability. Also... Moxie, man. It's Moxie. Yeah, and at that age to be able to admit...

I just was so impressed with your choices. You gave so much depth to her and it made me want to see so much more of Erica. Yes. I mean, it's why we got lucky. We, I mean, off screen to have you because it could have been an episode or two and none of us could take our eyes off you. I mean, even the way, you know, you come up in the hallway and

apologize and, and, you know, say good luck tomorrow. Like your, your dancer's posture, like informed this girl, her posture was perfect. Your physicality was perfect. We were just like, I mean, we're still gushing, but we were gushing over all of this.

Oh, gosh, my dancer's posture. Lord have mercy. Somebody said that to me the other night, y'all, at dinner. And I'm like, should I slouch? Yeah, no. No, I've got jurisdiction over the slouch. Sorry. That's my turf. Yeah, I'm trying so hard to unlearn my slouching. Hey, babe, what was it supposed to be? What was Eric Amar supposed to be? How many episodes did they tell you? They never told me. Uh-huh.

They never told me. It just said recurring. Okay. But yeah, it just, it was just that. It was recurring and it was kind of like they said that they didn't have anywhere else to go with her. How many did you do totally? It says six or seven, but I think I did eight. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. It feels like way more than that. Yeah. And they cut, they cut the beach scenes.

because I guess they, Mouth and I weren't going any further. I don't know. Oh, they were testing it out to see if there was a future there? I mean, I don't know. I mean, you know, we had some chemistry, the two of us. Yeah, you did. Yeah. Those lips. Those lips. Ha!

Okay, hold on. Are we going to play like kiss and tell right now? Because I love that game. I do too. We've got a big kiss in this episode to talk about too. So yeah, let's play kiss and tell. Kiss and tell. Yeah, because I was like, I've never kissed anybody on screen before like that. Really? What? No, I'd only just been like, whatever, just kissing.

and like dancer and like kiss people on the cheek and da, da, da. And then it was just like, whoa. And then we kiss on the mouth. I'm like, and it's close. Of course it's mouth. Yeah. And,

These are the biggest lips I think I've ever kissed in my life. Like, yeah. Fantastic. Yummy. You could fall. You could just like fall into those pillow lips and get lost. All the girls fell in love with mouth. It's true. Now we know the reason. And I'll tell you one other thing. Um,

they got me confused with another girl. Sometimes there was another girl on the show that was blind. Elizabeth Arnois. Yes. Yeah. I have like that baby face or whatever. And yeah, so they got me confused. I'm like, no, no, no, that's not me. Melt had a type. Is that what we're saying here? I guess so. They're like, that's so funny. So wait, what was, what,

What was the process like? Because I know, you know, you said that they let you know it was a recurring role. But where were you? Where were you living? How did you get the audition? Like, how did it all start? So I had just done Gilmore Girls. And I had a recurring on there. And then I got an audition for One Tree Hill. And I'm like, this is great. I mean, this is the one I want to be on. And then they auditioned me and I kept on getting callbacks.

And the last callback, they didn't give me any direction. I just did it. And then I just left. I'm like, well, I didn't get that. And then all of a sudden I got it. They wanted me to fly directly to Wilmington. It was probably...

Four days later, I bought a Christmas tree, a real one. I've never done one since. And I had to just get my best friend to get rid of it. She didn't get rid of it until February, y'all. Oh, my God. Babe, I still have one sitting on my porch right now. There was, like, stuff everywhere. I was like, whatever. You're a great friend, but whatever.

But yeah, so I got it. And then Gilmore Girls wanted me back. And I said, my manager was like, well, she's booked on Montreal now. And then they just kept on writing more and more for me. Wow. Right. And then that's how it happened. And so I didn't do Gilmore Girls anymore.

And One Tree Hill just kept on happening. And then after that season, I didn't come back. By the way, your character is so good and so dynamic. And you, you know, there's always these stereotypes about high school kids.

Right. Yeah. And you take that overachiever and you make her approachable. Yeah. And you make her interesting. And that's hard to do. You know, it's like Ioni Sky plays that character in Say Anything. Oh, yeah. You know, where it's just like, oh, you love school. You're such a nerd. Yeah, that's how that's your ticket out, man. There's a reason kids commit to school. Yeah. Were you into school when you were growing up?

Well, there's a funny story about that. So I was the captain of the cheerleading squad. Yes, you were. I was the dancer, the cheerleader. Musical theater kid. I was everything. And unfortunately, I didn't really get to do acting and all that in Vicksburg, Mississippi because we didn't have that opportunity. Yeah. But I did everything else. And I'll never forget, I went out for vice president. And this is kind of why it resonated with me.

Sophia, because I pulled from that when we were doing the scenes because I went out for vice president of the student body, y'all. And I was captain of the Chilean squad and I was going to be for senior year. And no one wanted, they knew I was a very busy person with dancing and ballet and everything and all that. No one really wanted me to be the vice president, but

Went, I mean, I had everybody voting for me. I was campaigning. I had it all. I had like seventh graders going out. And I didn't get it. I'm going to be very honest right now.

Some other chick got it. She was younger than me. She was a year younger than me. And I sat in the counselor's office for probably three hours crying. Stop. Hey, do you want us to fight her? We'll fight her. Oh, I'm ready. I mean, if she listens to this, she probably knows. I'm not going to say her name. Don't say it.

But yes, I was so butthurt about it. But in the interim, I probably never should have been vice president because I was too busy with all my extra stuff. Wait, I just want to sidebar. You went to the counselor's office, which is so awesome. I never went to our guidance counselor. I was always like...

know. I was afraid or I guess I just thought, oh, whatever they pay you to just like make, try and make me feel better. You have to pretend to like me. I don't need anybody. But it's so great. Like I love as an adult now knowing that kids did actually go to the guidance counselor. That's cool. Yeah. Joy. Joy. Yeah. I was one of 52 in my class. Are you serious? Yeah, of course I'm serious. 52 people in my graduating class. I was one of 55. Wow.

See, I'm not the only one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was one of 400. I had a small, I don't know how many, but it was small as well. Um, was it a private school? Yeah. Catholic. Oh yes. Yes. Yes. It was an all girls school. Like Sophia went to, I was boys and girls. And, uh, you better believe Catherine was kissing boys at that school. Come on.

Maybe a few weren't Hillary. Speaking of pissing boys, I got married. That's what we heard!

You are a literal newlywed. All right. We've got some good love, love stuff in this episode. So hit us with the wedding stuff. Tell us everything. Tell us the story, please. Okay. Well, my fiance at the time was like, we didn't know where we wanted to move to Nashville because we just, we needed to change and it was just better for everything. Where were you living? Yeah. From where? LA. Okay. When did you guys make that move?

Okay. Yeah. And so we get here and it, you know, it takes a lot to move. It's very stressful. Yeah. So we get here and it takes a couple months. And then my daddy's birthday, my daddy's 70th birthday. God, I love you, Catherine. My daddy. My daddy's birthday. You cutie. And we celebrated him and we were driving back from Oxford, Mississippi. And Michael goes, Catherine, what about Oxford?

And I got chills. I was like, yes, yes, let's do it there. So we started making plans. Y'all, we planned a freaking fairytale wedding within two months. Shut up. Oh, yes, we did. Yes, we did. Mm-hmm. We had the best. I tell you, we were like oldies all day, every day. Oh, my God.

I love it. How long have you guys been together? My daddy did the alligator, which I'm going to post on Instagram. Wait, stop. What do you mean your dad did the alligator? You cooked an alligator? Yeah. You know the alligator, right? No. Is it a dance? It's a dance move. Y'all, it is the craziest dance move. I don't even know. I thought you were talking about food. I legitimately like put an alligator on a spit and cooked it.

He starts like doing these push-ups type things and he starts moving his body and he's 70. And by the way, he's got black hair, which he's never dyed it. I swear to God, like everyone thinks he dyes it, but he doesn't. And he starts getting down on the ground going, yeah, that's my dad. That's my dad. Oh my God. I love that you had the old fashioned big family wedding. Is that what you always envisioned? Yeah. Yeah.

I did. I did. Well, we were going to try to make it like 120, but I have 100 relatives. Oh, my God. Wow. That's intense. So we decided that we would invite a couple more people. And then my mom invited her people. And it was probably 250. What? What?

So fun. You very much are school president. If you can throw a wedding with 250 people in two months, I mean, that is a tactical operation that you just went through. I'm into it. Catherine, how long have you guys been together? So this is how we met short version. So we literally were at the Hollywood bowl in September 10th, 2018. And I looked at my friend, I said, Oh,

I need to find a man tonight or somebody. Tonight. And I had just broken up with somebody else and I will kid you not, he was standing behind me. You know, the Hollywood Bowl, there's those walkways. Yeah. We were really pretty high up. Who were you seeing? Where was I sitting? Who were you seeing? Who was playing? Dave Matthews. Oh my God.

Oh my God, it's perfect. Yep, we are the same age. Exactly, exactly. Yes, I'm saying. I love this, Catherine. I love this. Love and rock and roll. This is great. Let me ask you one question. Of all the boys on the show, right? Like, which boy speaks to you? Is it Nathan? Is it Lucas? Is it Jake? Is it Mouth? Like, what's your type? Oh, Lord have mercy. Probably Nathan.

Uh-huh. Yeah. You know, the, you know, the bad boy kind of like, you know, just a little bit. But then again, but then again, I had so many scenes with Mal and he's the softy and I have a thing for that. So I really did work out that we were together, you know, on the show and he was,

I mean, it does help that, you know, Lee is just like the most amazing person. He's magical. He's the best. And so easy to work with. And so just like has such great ideas and make space for you as an actor. I mean, I just loved him. I know. You hit the jackpot, sis. Did you watch this episode? I want to know. Wait, wait, before we go to the episode questions, I want to know since we've just watched and we're really in the flashback of our, of our 20s.

Who is your Yankee most like out of all the boys on our show? Oh, yeah. Who's your husband like? Is he a Nathan or a Mouth? Who is he? He's not a Mouth. He might be a Nathan or a Chad Michael Mouth. He's a hybrid? He's a Scott brother hybrid? I mean, that's the best option. It really is. Yeah. I mean, he's tough. He's tough, but he's sweet. He's got a soft heart. Cutie. Always finds...

You know what I mean? Tender. Yeah. Yo. I mean, he's probably listening to me right now. You tell him to come hang out with us. Yeah. We've got some ladies that are very curious. Our curiosity is peaked right now. Oh my God. He might get a little shy between like all the all beautiful girls. We're flirty. So watch out. Who am I? Um,

All right. We're going to take a break right now, and then we're going to watch the... We're going to talk about the episode. Catherine, did you watch the episode? Oh, heck yeah, I did. Okay. Yes. We're going to dance back to this shit. I was in tears. I was like, oh my God, this is so crazy. It was so long ago. And...

Wow. Yeah. It was super cool to watch it. I watched the whole dang thing. Good. We just did too. We watched the whole dang thing and we hope you at home watch the whole dang thing too. So we can all come back and talk about it. We'll be right back.

It's back to school season for the kiddos, which means it's the perfect time to get your vacay on. Beaches are empty, resorts are quiet, and cheap Caribbean vacations has fall vacay deals up to, wait for it, 45% off. Plus, you can score more site-wide savings and take an extra $50 off your booking now through September 5th.

Take this as your sign to pencil in a vacay this fall and turn back-to-school season into back-to-beach season. Go to cheapcaribbean.com to find your next all-inclusive vacay offer and September 5th. All right, this is what you do when the love of your life, the apple of your eye, the bag you would beg for can wait no longer. You ready?

You go to eBay. Seriously, there you'll be reunited with that designer goddess of your dreams, that iconic Gucci handbag authenticated by experts no less. And with that in mind, you might let a fun Prada mini bag catch your attention. But at eBay, wandering eyes are always welcome. So if you happen to also find the perfect cheetah print dress to go with that bag, we'll just call it fate, baby. So go ahead and let's take you down a Y2K adventure. Flirt with the endless possibilities, baby tees that say I'm

back chunky heels only you can pull off and the Y2K mini skirts that were way ahead of their time. And you better make a move on that timeless Tiffany and Coach arm necklace while you're at it. And just because you look good in chunky heels doesn't mean you'll slack on your sneaker game. Let your love for sneakers take you down a not so sold out road and hit the ground running with all the latest streetwear. Nike, Off-White, Fear of God, Stone Island, Kith, Supreme, and whatever Adidas collab pops up next.

The fines are limitless and the authenticity is verified for real. So don't worry when that Chrome heart ring steals your heart, let it ignite your inner goth and follow your destiny. Fall in love with a goth queen seller from Nevada. Who's got the whole selection. Get that lace up corset with the knee high platforms and stop at nothing to find the perfect leather jacket to complete the collection.

And if that has you cross paths with a vintage fringe jacket, have the courage to get the boots to match. Just go full cowboy and never look back. Next thing you know, you're topping off your wardrobe with authentic luxury handbags and the most pristine watches because now you're confident and eBay is your place.

The more you love, the more you'll find. From the new to the pre-loved and waiting to be loved. The timeless classics to the one of ones and everything in between. Yeah, eBay. It's the place for new, pre-loved, vintage, and rare fashion. eBay. Things people love. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. What are your non-negotiables, Rob? Exercise is pretty much a non-negotiable. And getting into therapy once or twice a month.

It's sort of become a non-negotiable in the last couple of years for me. You know, the same way that when I wanted to start getting in shape for the first time, I hired a personal trainer to show me the ropes of the gym and teach me how to not hurt myself while also getting stronger physically.

I realized if I wanted to grow emotionally that why not hire a therapist, a professional, someone with experience who can sort of guide the journey rather than just reading a self-help book by myself. And I have found it to be an invaluable experience.

resource for me. I feel that too. Yeah, I agree. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Never skip therapy day with BetterHelp.

Visit betterhelp.com slash drama today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash drama. Being in the swing of summer, I know you will understand where I'm going with this because the swing of summer makes me feel very nostalgic for treats. Like I think about when it's like hot, I think about making my own ice pops in the kitchen and

You know, putting like OJ in little freezer things or what it would feel like to cut into a watermelon when you'd run inside and it was like 100 degrees out and you had cold fruit. I don't know. Does it make you feel snacky? The summer heat? Oh, yeah. I mean, when I think summer heat hit me with one of those rocket pops.

Or a creamsicle. You know, when the ice cream truck rolled by, it was, let's get out there and grab some cold treats. Stapped. Yeah, I think what I've realized, sadly, as an adult is that mostly when I wanted a cold treat, I probably just needed to drink water. I think I'm learning because, you know, summer is heating up as it does every year. And the thing that gives me my hydration fix and my treat is

is Liquid IV because they have all these nostalgic summer flavors that hit the market this summer. Like their sugar-free Rainbow Sherbert. It has taken me back to childhood in the best way. And I actually feel like I'm doing something good for myself when I drink it. And listen to some of these flavors. They have Raspberry Melon, White Peach. I am a big, big fan of the Green Grape, in fact. And I just kind of love that it's easy. Tear, pour, live more.

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They're turning your water into extraordinary hydration. Liquid IV has three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink. Eight essential vitamins and nutrients, always non-GMO. It's vegan, gluten-free, dairy-free, and soy-free. Indulgent hydration with a dash of summer nostalgia when you drink Liquid IV. Get 20% off your first order of Liquid IV when you go to liquidiv.com and use code DRIVED.

DRAMA at checkout. That's 20% off your first order when you shop better hydration today using promo code DRAMA at liquidiv.com. Friends, Symbiotica is a supplement brand that we love and trust. You've heard Hillary say, we're science fair kids. We love research. We love hacking our health. And for me in particular, I love

I notice that when I'm really good about my supplements, I have so much more energy. I focus better. I get better sleep. So I'm committed. Everyone around me can tell when I've been taking my supplements. I'm a much more pleasant person to be around. Ha ha ha!

And so these are formulated with high quality ingredients. Symbiotica is transparent about how and where they source ingredients to ensure that you get the best products possible. And their formulas do not have any seed oils, preservatives, toxins, artificial additives, or quote, natural flavors. I mean, most supplements have that weird chalky taste or it's like sulfuric.

and it lingers for a while. I hate that. And so it's really, it's hard to find a supplement that has premium ingredients but still tastes great. That's why we like it. Symbiotica has transformed our lives and I am so glad we've found a brand that actually cares about us, its customers. I know I can finally see a difference in how I function and feel and I actually look forward to taking my supplements every day.

every day. Feel more energized, alert, and balanced with high-quality supplements that work. Head over to Symbiotica.com. That's C-Y-M-B-I-O-T-I-K-A.com and use code DRAMA for 20% off and free shipping on your subscription order. We're back with our sweetheart, Katherine Bayless. Katherine, you're so good at being still. It takes a lot for an actor to be

Comfortable enough to be still and just deliver their lines. Yeah. It seems actually really hard to find. Yeah. Especially when we're playing teenagers and we're all goofy and wiggly and stuff. What were you basing it on? What were your inspirations for this role? So I think I had to internalize it when, again, like,

when I was going out for vice president of my student body and everything. And I kind of internalized that. And also, I knew that I couldn't be big because she wasn't supposed to be big. She didn't know how to be big. She was just this really introvert, had no friends. Her only friend was like her presidency and maybe one other friend. And you just cannot...

I don't know. It just kind of came naturally. And I'll never forget Bevan said something to me. Really? Yes. Because Bevan had a bunch of lines this episode. Yeah. Bevan looked over to me and it wasn't a very long, it was with you, I mean, Sophia, it wasn't a very long scene. It was when I lost and I was like, starting to internalize that and starting to cry. And she was like, how did you do that? And I went,

I don't know. I mean, it's like it just happened. And then that's what that you have to just visualize you in that moment in high school where you're going, oh, my God, I just lost to a girl that never even knew about being president. Yeah. I've been doing this my entire life. This is all. Yeah. And yeah.

That's kind of like how I got there, I think. Yeah. I think I learned that probably through Liam Esper, through acting classes, through whatnot. But I'm kind of a big person and I am very animated. So sometimes I am animated, but that role, I kind of was just, yeah, yeah. She's stoic is what you would say, right? Yeah. And it needed that because Brooke has so much energy and bounce and she's bubbly and busy and-

Yeah, it really needed that opposite energy. I think my favorite scene between me or Erica and Brooke was the very first scene when I turned around and my hair flipped in the classroom. Yes. You called me Vivica. That's right. Okay, Vivica. Oh my God, that was so funny. Like in character on March.

I loved that scene too, because you were actually so sincere and so like genuinely wanting to help her until the moment that you realized that she said, the moment she says I'm running for president. I've been present since like seventh grade. Yeah. It was so great. It had that speed. It had that clip of like the old Spencer Tracy, Catherine Hepburn movies, you know, and that clip is hard to do sometimes with guest stars because it's

Sometimes directors, just so you guys at home know, when they come on to set, they know like, oh, the regular kids kind of have it made up in their mind how they're going to be. I'm going to over direct the guest stars and really get in their head, you know? And so you didn't let anyone get in your head. You know, you knew what you wanted to do and you were toe to toe with Soph, who Sophia has chewed up and spit out every other actor on our show.

Your zingers, your one liners are brutal. Brooke had good one liners. It's true. Yeah. I love a good one liner. But also to come on the show at a time when it was really at a height, the height of its popularity, you know, it was right in that zone when everybody was talking about one tree hill and

And it was very much in the cultural zeitgeist and for you to come in and not be intimidated and not, you really brought your own thing. You didn't, you didn't worry about stepping on toes. You were like here to take up your own space, which is as an actor, that's what you want. You want to be around other people that you can trust. Yeah. It's so cool. And you know what, to, to even that point you made Hillary, cause yeah,

damn, Brooke had withering one-liners. Killer man. And the thing that Brooke would throw at a character like this, Erica was unintimidated. Yeah. And really threw down at Brooke in ways she wasn't accustomed to having anyone challenge her.

And, you know, you don't expect that from the perfect president who's so academic that she doesn't have any friends. And yet here was Erica Marsh like in the ring. And I think that's what made that moment between them special.

in the office feel so tender and like it could be something. Yeah. Like they might be friends. It was very cool. And it happened. Well, we have so much in this episode. I mean, should we just go back? Yeah, let's talk about Catherine's crush. Let's talk about Nathan. Because Nathan, we start to see hints of old Nathan. Yeah. We're starting to see bad boy. Let's talk about that trajectory. I was really...

I loved seeing James without any gel in his hair, totally baby faced in his hair down with his hair down. And, you know, as we've talked about before, James was the youngest on the show and he took his job so seriously. He had an acting coach that would come in and work with him. And I remember how much he cared about getting this stuff right.

So I know that he was working really hard at this and it really paid off. I just loved seeing this switch of vulnerability and angst and trouble and Nathan. And I love seeing the hints of old Nathan coming back and he punched Dan. What? What?

He drank beer in class and then punched Dan. Oh, yeah. The beer in class, too. The beer in class. Which is worse? The beer in class or punching your dad? Oof. I mean, doesn't everybody want to punch Dan? I think so. So, like, I don't know.

I was more shocked that he was ripping beers in class. Yeah. And then the gall to be like, don't worry, I brought enough for everybody. And he started passing them out in front of the teacher. What is that? Okay. So, Catherine, when you watched the episode and you saw the teacher in the little baby skirt, did you have a reaction to that? She turned her head. This is what I thought. I'm like, well, hell no.

I could be playing her now. Because Sophia and I walked right into the trap because they pull out and they do the wide shot of the teacher and we're like, what's with the skirt? And then Nathan makes the comment like and tries to slut shame the teacher. And we realized like, oh, man, we walked right into that. Damn it. We talk about true religion jeans that you wore. Oh, the true religion jeans. Those are so good.

Y'all. Yeah. The fashion. We wore a lot of those. The fashion. We wore some crazy stuff. I mean, that time was 2004, 2005. Yeah. Well, we shot it in 2004, so it aired in 2000, right at the beginning of 2005. Yeah. A lot of love handle on my part with those low rise jeans. It was just like, what's going to spill out over this?

You know what I loved was Brooke's brooch. Do you remember? That was the time when brooches were really in. It was in all the magazines. And you wore the cropped sweater with the skin-tight tank top so you could see. It just made your boobs bigger and your waist really tight. Not you, but the people who wore it. Boobs big, waist tight. But also you. But also you. And it was really cute. I love that look.

I will say I loved that whole outfit, those plaid pants. You know, I love a plaid pant. You sure do. And I was laughing at that crop sweater, but that's such an iconic moment, that win in the hallway. And I've seen that photo so many times, but watching the episode, I was like, God, I used to have so many abs. Like, you guys, my abs were sick and they went...

the way down. And I was watching me just walk out of the hallway to, to hear the announcement by myself. And I was like, I know I'm supposed to really be invested in Brooke's emotional journey, but God, I miss that abdominal situation. Oh, please. You still look amazing. Oh,

Oh, my God. No, but it was nice. I didn't know how nice it was at the time. I probably would have worn just more cropped things, but it's cool. I like that outfit. You had good outfits in this episode. I liked also what you were wearing at the beginning of the episode when we come to school. I don't like what I'm wearing. I don't like my hair. The blue. I don't like what I'm wearing. No, you don't like your hair in this episode. I'm dressed like a ding dong, you guys. This is ridiculous. Look at me. However. No, Hillary.

I love your just wild curly hair. Guys, it wasn't curly hair. It was... It had all burned off. And I hated that that's how I looked when Jake Jagielski came back. Like, I remember being so self-conscious, like, oh, man, I just really would like it if it were different right now. But the conversation that we had in the parking lot about the similarities between Chris Keller and Nathan. That's interesting. Yeah. Digress. Let's go. I loved that. I also loved...

Are they the same person? Well, before we get into the boys, I'm going to go ahead and say I loved our walk and talks. So many of them. Our walk and talks were so good. Walking through the parking lot, walking through the hallway, and they were at a clip that felt really real and the energy was so high. But God, when we were in the parking lot,

And Brooke's talking about how Haley changed Nathan. And well, when she first met him, he was arrogant and self-centered and really talented. And you know, they're the same. Yeah. Oof, that hit hard. Yeah. Joy, was it weird for you to watch Hillary and I having that conversation while Haley was away on tour with Chris? Were you like, oh my God, oh my God, it's true. What they're saying about me is true. Oh my gosh. It was weird because I didn't know I was in this episode. I thought I wasn't, but I guess that's how they, I guess they filmed a bunch of my stuff

all in one last week we were talking about how they filmed it all kind of in one chunk. So I think that was one of the pieces, I guess. Yeah, it was. And you weren't wrong. I mean, the fact that Haley was so attracted to a project and, you know, somebody to fix and that's kind of what Nathan was. And, and,

Then she fixed him, so to speak. And now there's something else. Okay. I don't think that that's totally what's going on with Haley. I think that that's part of it, like a subconscious part of her attraction to Chris, that she's denying and pushing away and trying to do the right thing. I love a project. Yeah. So many women do. Me too. Catherine, projects? Oh, heck yeah, I love a project. I love that project. Yeah. I will say, though,

There was a point where my dad sat me down and was like, you already rescued dogs. Stop dating sick puppies. And I was like, oh, dad.

Yeah. I was like, oh, dad, it cuts deep. Also, you're very right. You're very right. It's not my responsibility to save human beings. This is really awkward and terrible and horrible, and I have to go now. You've always been like that, Sophia. Mm-hmm. I mean, since you were in your early, early, early 20s, you always rescued dolls. I remember going over to your house, and I'm going, how many dang dolls does she have? I know.

I know. When she got the Parvo puppies. Were you there when she got the whole pack of Parvo puppies? Oh, Lord almighty. They were so sweet. But yeah, I learned my lesson. I was like, yeah, taking home a dog and her nine puppies was a real big mistake. But, you know, I've learned that lesson about animals and human beings, too. And look at us just growing up. You know who doesn't need fixing? Say it with me now.

Jake Jigalski. Jake Jigalski. Good segue. Catherine, did you ever get to hang out with Brian Greenberg or were you guys ships passing in the night? Oh, no, no, no, no. We hung out a bunch when I was there. You did? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We, um...

We hung out a good amount because he was working at the same time I was working. And there were a lot of people that were like ship sailing in the night, you know, but like we were on kind of the same schedule. So yeah, I got to know him pretty well. And he just had twins. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm so happy. We love him. He went to the same doctor that I went to because I froze my eggs twice. Oh, really? Huh? You guys went to the same doctor? Good. Yeah.

Oh, that's so cool. Well, not him. No, but he's honestly, he's such a good person. You know, a lot of guys have been revealed to be gross in the last couple years. Yeah. Greenberg doesn't have to worry about that. Greenberg has always been above board and he is kind and professional and awesome. And we got really, really lucky to have him. And I,

you know, the girls tease me about the whole like Peyton Jake Jagielski thing because I turned purple during the Jake Jagielski scenes. I'm so embarrassed. It's so hot. You guys, that kiss was so good. And he is such a leading man. He is such a leading man. He knows how to use the camera, how to use the space in between you guys. He's in such control of his instrument as an artist. It was really, really... His instrument. Yeah.

I had to say it. No, me too. As soon as Joy said it. We were like, what are you saying right now? You know what I mean. I do. Joy's like his dancer's posture. Oh my God. Oh my God. No.

Also, the delayed gratification of that kiss. We've been waiting for that kiss for so long. Yes. You know what? That's what we wanted. Remember early on with Peyton and Lucas and how it happened so fast and we were all like, whoa. And it was creepy. It was creepy. This is what we waited for. It's what we wanted and the fact that you took so long to lean in. It's so tender. Oh, God. A little like biting your lip a little. Oh, God. It was so good. I loved it. That kiss.

It's back to school season for the kiddos, which means it's the perfect time to get your vacay on. Beaches are empty, resorts are quiet, and cheap Caribbean vacations has fall vacay deals up to, wait for it, 45% off. Plus, you can score more site-wide savings and take an extra $50 off your booking now through September 5th.

Take this as your sign to pencil in a vacay this fall and turn back to school season into back to beach season. Go to cheapcaribbean.com to find your next all-inclusive vacay offer and September 5th. All right, this is what you do when the love of your life, the apple of your eye, the bag you would beg for can wait no longer. You ready? You

You go to eBay. Seriously, there you'll be reunited with that designer goddess of your dreams, that iconic Gucci handbag authenticated by experts no less. And with that in mind, you might let a fun Prada mini bag catch your attention. But at eBay, wandering eyes are always welcome. So if you happen to also find the perfect cheetah print dress to go with that bag, we'll just call it fate, baby. So go ahead and let's take you down a Y2K adventure. Flirt with the endless possibilities, baby tees that say...

back chunky heels only you can pull off and the Y2K mini skirts that were way ahead of their time. And you better make a move on that timeless Tiffany and Coach charm necklace while you're at it. And just because you look good in chunky heels doesn't mean you'll slack on your sneaker game. Let your love for sneakers take you down a not so sold out road and hit the ground running with all the latest streetwear. Nike, Off-White, Fear of God, Stone Island, Kith, Supreme, and whatever Adidas collab pops up next.

The fines are limitless and the authenticity is verified for real. So don't worry when that Chrome heart ring steals your heart, let it ignite your inner goth and follow your destiny. Fall in love with a goth queen seller from Nevada. Who's got the whole selection. Get that lace up corset with the knee high platforms and stop at nothing to find the perfect leather jacket to complete the collection.

And if that has you cross paths with a vintage fringe jacket, have the courage to get the boots to match. Just go full cowboy and never look back. Next thing you know, you're topping off your wardrobe with authentic luxury handbags and the most pristine watches because now you're confident and eBay's your place.

The more you love, the more you'll find. From the new to the pre-loved and waiting to be loved. The timeless classics to the one of ones and everything in between. Yeah, eBay. It's the place for new, pre-loved, vintage, and rare fashion. eBay. Things people love. Friends, Symbiotica is a supplement brand that we love and trust. You've heard Hillary say, we're science fair kids. We love research. We love hacking our health. And for me in particular, I love...

noticed that when I'm really good about my supplements, I have so much more energy. I focus better. I get better sleep. So I'm committed. Everyone around me can tell when I've been taking my supplements. I'm a much more pleasant person to be around. And so these are formulated with high quality ingredients. Symbiotica is transparent about how and where they source ingredients to ensure that you get the best products possible.

And their formulas do not have any seed oils, preservatives, toxins, artificial additives, or quote, natural flavors. I mean, most supplements have that weird chalky taste or it's like sulfuric and it lingers for a while. I hate that. And so it's really...

It's hard to find a supplement that has premium ingredients but still tastes great. That's why we like it. Symbiotica has transformed our lives, and I am so glad we've found a brand that actually cares about us, its customers. I know I can finally see a difference in how I function and feel, and I actually look forward to taking my supplements every day.

every day. Feel more energized, alert, and balanced with high quality supplements that work. Head over to symbiotica.com. That's C-Y-M-B-I-O-T-I-K-A.com and use code drama for 20% off and free shipping on your subscription order.

For decades, the Mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Ante marked the beginning of the end, sparking a chain of events that would ultimately dismantle the most powerful crime organization in American history. It sent the message to them that we can prosecute these people.

Discover how a group of young prosecutors took on the mafia and with the help of law enforcement brought down its most powerful figures. These bosses on the commission had no idea what was coming their way from the federal government. From Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts, this is Law & Order Criminal Justice System. Listen to Law & Order Criminal Justice System on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life and marriage. I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is today.

I think he was like, oh, yeah, things come and go. But with me, it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin or a down-and-out divorcee? Is she living in Beverly Hills or a trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air in the podcast Misspelling. When a woman has nothing to lose, she has everything to gain. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words.

that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I really liked that the night before they kissed, Peyton left the room and was like, this is too much. And he didn't chase her into the room, you know, the other bedroom. He wasn't needy.

There was no, there was like no game playing. No. He just took that night to formulate his thoughts so that the next night he was like, I lied to you about while I was coming here. I, I want to be with you. And you know, like I dorked out. I mean, I'm like trying so hard to be cool. I say me, I'm like talking about Peyton. Of course Peyton is like dorking out and trying so hard to be cool. Um,

But working with someone like Brian who – he switches from being Brian, your buddy, behind camera to, like, Jake Jagielski, this, like, kind of soulful dude. You know? Like, there's a shift in the energy where it's really easy to have a huge frickin' crush on Jake Jagielski and then go, like, have drinks at the bar, you know, with your buddy Greenberg. And that's nice that –

that that energy shift can happen in a really easy way. Yeah. Well, and I know we've talked about this before, but Brian was such a good friend to all of us and was always such a safe, like quality guy. Yeah. And I think some of his natural energy is what you see coming out of Jake in these really tender scenes because he is a soulful, present, considerate human. Yeah.

And to watch these two teenagers be withholding out of a little bit of fear and a little bit of discomfort. Peyton leaves the room and says, like, this is a lot for my emotions. I don't know what's happening here. I got to protect myself. And he sits with it and realizes, well, I'm keeping something from her and maybe that's why she's keeping something from me. It's so patient and kind. Yeah.

I love them. I love them. I love them. Other hot boy energy. Mouth getting up to give the speech for Brooke. Do you think this is when Erica Marsh falls in love with him? Yes. There's a moment that they caught, and I haven't seen this in a long time, y'all. And I looked and I went, oh, shoot. That's when Erica was like... Yeah. Yeah.

I'm going to get those lips. I'm going to get those lips. Where'd you guys kiss for the first time? Do you remember? Yeah, it was in front of my house, Erica's house. And I did the whole, you know, you know, when you're, you're acting and you don't even know what's going to happen and you bite your lip and

And I don't know how awkward it was, but I did it. And I didn't even know I did it. But it happened. And I saw it on film for the first time. I'm like, okay, that works because I'm awkward and whatever. I'm a high schooler, which I wasn't in high school. Yeah. And yeah, that was the first time we kissed. It was so cute. Oh, my gosh. I just love him so much.

Yeah. I love that mouth came, came up to Brooke's rescue. I love seeing them come back together after the last time that we saw him confess to her that he threw the brick through her windshield and it's just too hard for him to be friends with her anymore. We needed that friendship back. We needed them to come back together. Yeah. And sometimes when you, when you're, you know, you're smarting because you don't quite know what to say after a fight. Yeah. The, the,

the swooping in and standing up for someone and essentially proclaiming to other people why you love them. You know, it's, that was a, that was like a love letter in action and it reminded them both how much they cared about each other's friendships. And it was just so sweet, you know, for Brooke to be seen for who she is, not, not her popularity or what people assume about her. And,

And for Mouth to be, you know, the hero in front of the whole school, I just loved it. Yeah, me too. A lot of knights in shining armor in this episode. You know, we've got Mouth saving the day. We've got Jake Jagalski just being a smoke show. And we've got Andy. Andy, I was just going to say. Andy with the iconic line, I do tend to get what I want. To get what I want. It just happens that way. Ooh.

He's coming for Dan. And you called it. So if you said, look at Paul, make the choice to have Dan be rattled at the end of that scene. It was so smart. Just a little. We needed it. We needed to know that Dan is capable of being rattled by someone. Yeah. And it was just a flash on Paul's face, but it was such a good choice as an actor. Yeah.

To play the bravado and then to go, oh, uh-oh. Like, what's going to happen? Yeah. And then you see Andy outside, like he's on a stakeout, like in his Suburban calling some guy on his cell phone. And I'm like, what is he going to do? I can't wait for next week. What is he going to do? TCB. I honestly, I don't remember, but I can't wait. Catherine, was Kieran part of your hangouts too? Did you guys hang?

Okay, so Kieran and I did a movie before I got One Tree Hill. No way. No. Yes, we did. It was called Sea of Fear. What was it about besides fear? On the open waters? It was in the sea. No. And we were on a boat. And I'll tell you one thing. Nobody knows this, but...

They didn't allow fake blood on that boat because it was a very nice yacht. So we had to use ketchup. Stop. That's what you were going to say. So we had to bleed. But Kieran and I were boyfriend and girlfriend on that movie. So when I got one tree hill, I got there and Kieran already had a recurring role.

So I knew Joy. Yeah. And I knew Kieran. And so like I had some friends, thank God, because I was there for so long and I was like, I need to make friends. Friends! We got it. Oh my God. I love it so much. The last piece we definitely need to address though is Lincoln and Karen because we haven't really touched on that.

That scene was so beautiful. And to watch, I will say one thing I loved was watching her get ultimately vulnerable with Nathan, this mother who's lost his son and this, this boy who's, you know, lost his family and his wife. It, it interestingly made Andy getting protective over her even more exciting to me.

Because he's taking action because he's seeing what it's doing to her. But we as the viewers get to see her confide in someone else. Yeah. And it gives you the feeling like all these people's emotions are just spilling out everywhere. I thought it was a great choice. I agree. I loved seeing James-

let himself be that vulnerable. He hasn't done that on the show yet. And his voice cracking like that. Yeah. God, it broke my heart for him. Yeah, me too. And watching Karen be the support system that he never had and the weird switching roles that the boys are doing and Lucas living with Dan. Oh, talk about books being like buddy, buddy. Oh, so awful. And the fact that Karen in her moment of need and her hour of need missing her son, having, um,

Nathan ironically be the one that comes to her and trusts her. It's such beautiful storytelling. And, you know, we talk about healing. What an interesting healing thing I imagine for the subconscious to have Dan Scott's son apologize. I'm sorry my dad was such a dick to you. Yeah. Miss Roe, I'm sorry. That must have really hurt you. That makes me want to cry. Yeah.

It was beautiful. Well, we know why Nathan's so upset. It's because Haley is a smoke show as evidenced by her sweet, the wreckers makeover with the smoky eye and like the sexy halter top in this episode. It,

It was such a delight to see your rock and roll girl makeover. It was for me too. I was like, oh, I look good. I loved that. Yeah. I really, I think this is so interesting to watch Haley. Now that I'm kind of watching as a third party and I've seen Haley's trajectory, watching her go and do this thing that's like, it's like partially for herself, but like,

it's not totally without selfish motives in a negative way. Like there's some things that are good that you need to do for yourself and your own dreams and all that. But there's, there's something about it that is the secrecy, the hiddenness, the, the tucking something away that. You mean the independence? Yeah, but it's like longing for independence, but she's doing it the wrong way. She's doing it in a sly, secretive way instead of trusting Nathan. I like seeing that flaw in her.

Yeah, I like that Haley was a kid doing this rather than an adult going, let's sit down and have a mature conversation. Tell me what you're really feeling and I'll tell you what I'm really feeling. And then I'm going to go do this thing and I'll call you and FaceTime every day and check in.

Which is who she's always been. Yeah. And by the way, it's who we should all be in our real relationships, but it's less interesting to watch on TV. Right. Watching Haley have a secret and rebel and be bad and refuse to call home and everyone's tortured and she doesn't care. You're like, what is going on? I know. Oh.

Oh, my God. And it makes it exciting because I want to know why she's suddenly behaving like this. Like, why is our friend going off the deep end? She's a bad girl, guys. She's a bad, bad girl. Deep down, she's a bad girl. It makes me wonder what Haley's most likely to is now. It's like she used to be most likely to, you know, be the friend you could rely on. And now I'm like, I don't know.

Catherine, we do a bit on this show called Most Likely To where we spin a wheel and we have to declare a character and also a real life actor from our show as that most likely to. We're going to spin the wheel right now. You're going to help us figure this out. Okay, then. Okay, then. Okay, fine. Most likely to leave acting and take up golfing. Sophia. What? What?

No, shut up. In real life, baby Jenny is now at college on a golfing scholarship. She's like PGA. She is? Oh my God. Grace Holcomb, who played baby Jenny, Jake's baby, is like, it makes me feel a thousand years old that she is in college. Yeah.

Especially as like we're seeing all these scenes of us like holding. Yes. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yes. Yes. She sure is. That little baby is in college and she's going to be on TV soon. Her mom, like I'm, I'm Facebook friends with her mom and her mom posts like she's going to be on TV. Um, because she's like in, in the PGA circuit, she's doing extraordinarily well. It's insane. So, um,

I guess Baby Jenny. What's her name? Grace in real life. Which character do we think runs off and becomes a... Would leave what their profession is to just retire and be a golf player. I feel like Skills would do that if he could. Our go-to answers are always Mouth and Skills. They're our favorite characters. It's so true. Character-wise, maybe Andy? Maybe.

Oh, yeah. He doesn't need a job. He's rich. That's right. That feels fair. Yeah, that's a good answer, Joy. Golf really reads as like a very wealthy man sport to me. Like a dentist. Yeah. Yeah, dentists always play golf. Except for my cool dentist from North Carolina who had a boat. Loved him. Oh, yeah. The hot dentist. We'll talk about that in a different episode. The hot dentist.

nothing better than like having a hot dentist but who also has a cool wife and cute kids and they just like take you out on their boat I was like can you guys adopt me like what is this life you lead I love it here living in Wilmington was a dream god it was lovely Catherine thank you so much for coming and being on our show I'm so glad you were here hey tell your cute husband we said hi yeah he's watching some show see the thing is we watch different shows haha

Has he seen you in this show? Is he going to see me? Has he seen you in One Tree Hill? Oh, you know what? I think he's seen some scenes. He might need to. But I was watching this episode in the den earlier and I was like, baby, come see baby Catherine. Yeah. Yeah. Check a load of this.

Hey, hey. Look at little bitchy Catherine. Which hadn't really changed that much. Anyway. Next episode, season two, number 15, Unopened Letter to the World. See you guys next week. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at DramaQueensOTH. Or email us at DramaQueens at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time.

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